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GTA 5: the Housers’ maturation is lacking maturity

Wednesday, 16th October 2013 07:44 GMT By Patrick Garratt

GTA 5 is the technical achievement of a generation, a worthy grabber of 2013′s cash and prizes. Unfortunately, says Patrick Garratt, there’s a problem: the content isn’t maturing with the code.

The tech’s mature, but the content? Only in terms of the rating. Grand Theft Auto has always been a vision of American life through the Housers’ lens, but this time the glass is so thick it’s practically opaque.

WARNING: there are slight spoilers in the article below.

Tagging Grand Theft Auto 5 as “bad” is ignorant. It’s undeniably “good,” a benchmark piece of technology singlehandedly responsible for shaming the ever-whining “no more power” soundbiters. GTA 5 is the culmination of a generation’s work, a game in which a lifetime’s experience in mission balancing checks boredom with ease, an exercise in voice acting and story delivery which doesn’t so much raise the bar as chop it up into little pieces, pour petrol on it and transmute it to ash. Before pissing on it. It’s a grand achievement, as virtually all of you are now aware. No allegations of pushed scores here: GTA 5 is a motherfucking beast.

Which is precisely its problem. What’s old is the motherfucking, and the pissing, and all the rest of the puerility (although, to be fair, it’s the funniest game I’ve ever played in parts). We have meth labs, and hookers, and everything else you’d expect from GTA’s latest escalation, again wrapped up in the greasy burger paper of Big Macmerica. The Housers’ obsession with the US has become borderline tedious. We’re ticking boxes now: black, white, rich, poor, city, country, Mexican, Chinese, guns and drugs. Trevor lives where he lives because he’s looking for something as close as possible to the Midwest. We have mentions of the East Coast. We have LA – Los Whatever – represented in such lunatic detail that I knew my way around the pier because I’ve spent half my life at E3. Nothing’s left out. Dan and Sam may have produced a classic in Grand Theft slaughter’s next level, but their need to represent all aspects of American life weighs on the tech. Phone unveils, juggalos, stock markets, internet porn: it’s all there. What’s next? Back to New York to run guns into goddamn fucking Canada, you motherfucking prick?

There’s been much talk of GTA 5′s main failing being its male power fantasy, but it’s difficult to agree when the entire series has been nothing but. It’s unbendable; it’s a perpetuity. What’s wrong here is the extent to which youthful naivety is being exploited. We find Trevor, for instance, fucking some meth-head biker’s wife over a table while watching TV, before murdering her husband and starting a war with his gang. You’d be laughing at 18: it’s childish at 40. The tech’s mature, but the content? Only in terms of the rating. Grand Theft Auto has always been a vision of American life through the Housers’ lens, but this time the glass is so thick it’s practically opaque. Pushing boundaries of acceptability in any medium is commendable for its own sake, but “adult” is more than bottling a skinhead. The sales may be stratospheric, but the same can’t be said of the artistic reach. It’s a fantastic game in almost every respect, but I wish the Housers would get on and grow up.

They won’t, of course, because they can’t. GTA is stuck in America and it’s stuck in fuck-jokes and hyper-violence. Naked extremism has its place, but I sincerely hope we see better from the brothers grim. Artists lucky enough to begin their careers early may enter a mature period, a time of production marked by advanced, often surprisingly different work. Whether or not the constraints of compiling the World’s Biggest Game will allow the Housers such glory isn’t clear (although the reality will probably be depressingly obvious), but I suspect the incessant sucking on youth culture and American symbolism will eventually stymie Rockstar’s prodigal franchise. GTA 5 is certainly a good game. How long future titles can remain good by drinking the bright-green-with-a-stupid-umbrella-cock-and-drugs cocktail is a question it may become increasingly stressful to answer.

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67 Comments

  1. orlybro

    Good to see you have matured compared to 2009 Patcrick.
    I bet you would not post something like this in 2013:

    http://www.vg247.com/2009/09/21/new-saboteur-screens-have-tits-ass/

    That link is one of your click-baits from below the article.
    VG247 Home of equality and morality. How shameful and hypocritical.

    #1 11 months ago
  2. Patrick Garratt

    I wouldn’t post anything like that now, no. Things can change a lot in four years, hey? Those links are automated, for the record.

    I’m not saying the game’s content is immoral at all. Just that it isn’t mature. Two different things.

    #2 11 months ago
  3. TheBlackHole

    $1b in three days. Artistic what now?

    GTA has NEVER been about artistic value. Not that ‘artistic value’ actually means anything, assuming you’re familiar with Tracy Emmin’s work.

    #3 11 months ago
  4. TheBlackHole

    also

    “They won’t, of course, because they can’t.”

    That’s incredibly presumptuous. Who says they’re aiming for artistic recognition? They’re already the most recognised brand and title in games, and arguably the most critically lauded.

    #4 11 months ago
  5. mistermogul

    Personally I’d be happy if they toned it down a bit and I could especially do without scenes like the torture one but hey this is GTA. You know what you’re getting into right?

    #5 11 months ago
  6. DSB

    If you were to do a mature open world game, you’d end up with Mafia II. These worlds are playgrounds of destruction and mayhem, so unless you want to start punishing people for being dicks and trying to make them heel, I don’t see how a truly mature story would make sense. One minute you’re doing something incredibly meaningful, and the next you’re crashing cars and running over old ladies?

    I think it’s far worse that it’s a lousy power fantasy. As well as a rerun. What ruined Niko Bellic was that he was a pussy. He just “did stuff” for no real conceivable reason. It was a simulation of getting pushed around and exploited by people you couldn’t possibly like, for reasons you couldn’t possibly sympathize with.

    GTA V is better, but somehow the Housers feel the need to reuse the exact same device, playing patsy to feds and lawmen, when you have absolutely no reason to. One minute you’re stealing superweapons from decked out rednecks, or riding a motorbike over a moving train (riding a motorbike over a moving train!!!) but somehow you’re still supposed to cower because a fed walks up to you and goes “Booh!!!”

    What nonsense is that? It’s not even close to believable, especially considering the ending which shows just how impotent your supposed “owners” truly are.

    I’m not bothered by the “level of maturity”. Watch a Tarantino movie. Adolescence and insolence can be huge in the right hands. But obviously Dan Housers understanding of what makes a good story is a long way from Tarantinos, and that’s the real problem.

    #6 11 months ago
  7. Ekona

    As a 33 year old male, I can live with the 5% I found childish as long as I still get the 95% I found clever and witty.

    Watching Trevor yell “CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT!” within the first five mins of encountering him was over the top, designed for maximum shock value, and slightly puerile. It was also one of my favourite moments of the entire game, so I think that probably says more about me than GTAV :D

    #7 11 months ago
  8. Clupula

    I’m sorry, did someone just say Tarantino knew how to write a good story?

    Tarantino has yet to write a second character, nevermind a good story.

    In fact, here’s a fun experiment: Take any Tarantino character’s dialogue and give that dialogue to another Tarantino character and notice how you can still picture them saying it. Yeeeeah.

    Man’s a hack. Doesn’t take any talent to make every single character a variation on the same swaggering self-impressed “bad ass.”

    #8 11 months ago
  9. TheBlackHole

    @8

    Sorry, but Jackie Brown is a masterpiece.

    #9 11 months ago
  10. Docker Al

    What is it with all these losers trying to pontificate on the intellectual merits of this video game? Clearly the author of this piece has little to no understanding of satire. Or of the crime films that are an obvious inspiration for the GTA series. This is a great website, but trash like this ill-considered piece of writing really lowers the tone.

    #10 11 months ago
  11. ShiiRo

    I get the feeling that people are going to realize really fast why Rockstar doesn’t make a “serious” GTA the moment that Watch_Dogs is finally released.

    #11 11 months ago
  12. KAP

    I find it so funny that people find it kool to bash on this incredible title..

    Wont change the fact its gonna be GOTY and made a billion.. just saying

    #12 11 months ago
  13. Pitts

    I have the sneaking suspicion that all would be forgiven if the next GTA returned to London.

    #13 11 months ago
  14. UuBuU

    The issue here is clearly that you’re too old to fully appreciate a game like GTA, not that the series needs to “grow up” and become more serious.

    The series has always been aimed primarily at teens and tweens ~ I see no reason for that to ever change. If you want proof that Rockstar are capable of making more mature games, look no further than Red Dead.

    #14 11 months ago
  15. Clupula

    @9 – Written by who? Oh, that’s right. It’s based on an Elmore Leonard novel. So, he basically took someone else’s novel, changed the race of the main character, and threw in some of his stupid pop culture obsessions into there to make it seem like he actually did something.

    Doesn’t make you a genius to adapt someone else’s work.

    #15 11 months ago
  16. Clupula

    Back to the actual article at hand…I know I’m going to regret asking this, but Patrick, what exactly would you like the GTA series to start doing? You don’t make it clear here. You just say that you’re annoyed it’s in America and you want it to mature.

    Can you give some examples of the things you’d like to see?

    #16 11 months ago
  17. klewd

    @3 “GTA has NEVER been about artistic value”
    GTA is satire. Satire is social criticism. They communicate this by using writing, cinematography, sound, design etc.

    Where do you get off claiming it has never been about artistic value, “assuming you’re familiar with Roland Barthes”? GTA3 and GTA4 provided much needed satire in the post-9/11 craze and “violent video games” hysteria.

    If you’re portraying a satirized version of the world, and (written) interactive storytelling is a main pillar of the game, of course people are going to expect that you are conveying some sort of idea(s) with it. A story that is vacuous or superficial isn’t going to stick with people as effectively as a story that has some meaning to it.

    Why are people so desperately defending this? The whole point of criticism is to provide valuable feedback that improves the art. Please explain to me how GTA5′s story would be harmed by having an artistic message. Please tell me how this is, in any way, detrimental to the game. Why can’t the game be fun *AND* thoughtful?

    people act as if because the game has metacritic rating of 97 then it’s immune to criticism and any criticism is worthless. Patrick isn’t saying that the game is bad, he’s just pointing out that it could be even better.

    #17 11 months ago
  18. Panthro

    @8

    I’d say The Bride and Mr Candy are very different.

    Also, I couldnt imagine Aldo Raine saying any of the things Jules Winnfield says.

    While were also on the subject, Richie Gekko is pretty different from Django aswell.

    Hmmm, i could go through alot more comparisons to.

    Your experiment doesnt work…

    #18 11 months ago
  19. Moonwalker1982

    Haven’t read it, cause i haven’t finised the story yet, Online is keeping me from it. So far i really like the story and characters. Plenty of humour thrown in and i can’t say i have any real problems with it. Never had with GTA actually. But again…can’t properly comment on it, because i wanna avoid spoilers.

    #19 11 months ago
  20. DSB

    @8 The same thing can be said for a multitude of writers, both novelists and screenwriters. Look at Dan Simon, or anything by Aaron Sorkin. Or F. Scott Fitzgerald, Chuck Palahniuk or Hunter S. Thompson. All the characters resemble eachother, and that’s okay. I don’t know how you would get the idea that that wasn’t okay. Having a universe that’s tied together isn’t a bad thing, it depends on the quality of the universe.

    Being a good writer isn’t about writing all your characters individually, it’s perfectly acceptable to have a style, it can even be a huge advantage because it creates credibility within the fiction, and arguably that’s Tarantinos whole bag. The guy is completely in love with his own worlds.

    And that won him the Palm D’or. That’s like an Oscar, except without the political bullshit, and historically awarded to the finest directors in the medium, so you’ll pardon me if I think you’re talking out of your ass here.

    Although it is true that a Tarantino script without Tarantinos direction becomes far less interesting. True Romance would be the most obvious example.

    #20 11 months ago
  21. Panthro

    @15

    you knew to the concept of movie creators picking up some work they like and adapting it into a movie?

    #21 11 months ago
  22. RussellGorall

    Having an opinion GTA5 is bad is ignorant? Do you know what ignorant means?

    #22 11 months ago
  23. Clupula

    @21 – Not at all, but usually you don’t have an army of sycophants who lick that director’s asshole for doing an adaptation.

    #23 11 months ago
  24. MadFlavour

    If the game was mature the target demographic (idiots) wouldn’t have made it the biggest selling game ever.

    #24 11 months ago
  25. Clupula

    @18 – Or maybe you’re just not very bright. All of those examples work perfectly for my experiment. You just don’t have the imagination to realize it.

    #25 11 months ago
  26. Clupula

    I mean, sure, a good director can take an absolute piece of shit and give it some life. Just look at how Oliver Stone took a shitty little script written by Tarantino and made Natural Born Killers into a masterpiece.

    But when you’ve got someone like Tarantino, who doesn’t write movies so much as make mix-tapes of his favorite scenes from films from people vastly more talented than he is, that’s not going to happen with a novel adaptation.

    #26 11 months ago
  27. Clupula

    @20 – I wipe my ass with the Palm D’Or. All awards ceremonies are popularity contests. You all can attach yourselves, human centipede-style to Tarantino all you want. Doesn’t make him any more creative.

    Tarantino doesn’t deserve to be mentioned on the same page as any of the people you mentioned, nevermind in their league.

    Palahniuk may make his protagonists very similar, but at least the other characters in his stories vary.

    Although I do agree with you on one point, Tarantino is in love with his own worlds. But so are most coprophiliacs.

    #27 11 months ago
  28. DSB

    @26 Except the scripts are actually good. It’s brimming with quality lines that quite a lot of writers would wish they’d thought of.

    It’s purile and adolescent, but like I said to begin with, that really means fuck all.

    I’m not a big fan of Reservoir Dogs though, it feels like a play more than a movie. And I think Inglorious Basterds only really made sense to Tarantino, also because the material he was homaging was far too controversial to ever make it into a Hollywood movie, so it became this halfassed thing.

    @27 ” I wipe my ass with the Palm D’Or”. And that’s where you lost your credibility. The Palm D’or is just a prize, but the quality of the material it’s awarded to should really be pretty obvious.

    You’re refusing to recognize the quality of those scripts simply because it doesn’t fit with your own preference, and that has nothing to do with what was being discussed.

    So the conclusion here is that Clupula doesn’t like Tarantino. Movin’ on.

    #28 11 months ago
  29. Clupula

    @26 – Actually, I was surprised as how dull and lifeless the script to Natural Born Killers is, stripped of Oliver Stone’s influence. It’s actually one of my favorite movies and reading the script, I was shocked at how bland it is.

    In fact, if you watch the deleted scenes, when they show the courtroom scene, you see how unnatural it feels when Stone didn’t trim Tarantino’s obsession with pop culture. When Mickey starts going on about Bruce Lee’s fighting style, it doesn’t seem natural.

    One of the best things Stone did in that movie was to cut down on all the nonsense Tarantino throws into his character’s dialogue. He stripped it down to the bare essence of what makes the stories work.

    Which is probably why Tarantino hates Natural Born Killers. Tarantino, on his best day, couldn’t direct the worst scene in that film.

    #29 11 months ago
  30. Clupula

    @28 – Honestly, unless I’m the one winning the award, I don’t a shit about any of them. They mean less than nothing to me. Sometimes, directors I love, like Terry Gilliam or Takashi Miike win them. Sometimes, directors I despise, like Tarantino win them. They aren’t any sort of gauge of quality for me.

    They tend to be just handed out to whoever happens to be the flavor of the month among the judges.

    #30 11 months ago
  31. Bomba Luigi

    You are a brave Man Sir Garratt, you have my Respect.

    But I can’t really say if I agree or not, didn’t play the Game. But it all sounds Resonable.

    #31 11 months ago
  32. ddtd

    GTA is their silly franchise, no matter how less silly it can be from other games (though, I would say that Saints Row has become even more immature recently, though considerably less misogynistic). Outside of this franchise, the Housers have shown that they can raise their own bar through Red Dead Redemption and Max Payne 3 (both of which had Dan Houser was lead writer). So, as long as they keep putting out games like those in-between GTA releases, then I say let them vent their fantasies/frustrations through the GTA brand.

    Also, maybe I’m interpreting the story wrong, but I don’t see it as a glorification of the male power fantasy, but the game is rather taking shots at it (but in a way that’s not nearly as clever as SpecOps: The Line). I mean, Michael and Trevor are really awful people; especially Michael later on in the story. The fact that I can sympathize with them, root for them, and despise them at the same time shows that they’ve created some pretty complex characters, IMO.

    #32 11 months ago
  33. Panthro

    Wow, clupula sure is a cunt who wont shut up, another vg247 asshole added to the list.

    #33 11 months ago
  34. Ireland Michael

    Kinda failing to understand this piece.

    It’s like you had a nice idea for an article, but after a paragraph or two just decided to forgo any actual discussion about the topic, said “fuck it”, and simply posted what you’d written.

    Its easy to make a statement, especially a controversial one. I kind of assumed the point of investigative journalism was to actually back those statement up with research and insight.

    #34 11 months ago
  35. DSB

    Oliver Stone… Really? He did a good job on Natural Born Killers and U Turn. None of which were his ideas. And Scarface was obviously awesome, but I don’t see how you would ever compare him to Tarantino. To call him predictable would be to flatter him.

    He knows how to make a solid popcorn movie, but most of them tend to get embarrassing after a few years. Or just embarrassing to begin with, most recently.

    Why don’t we start praising Ron Howard while we’re at it. Christ.

    #35 11 months ago
  36. VibraniumSpork

    @33 Agreed. He really is an awful, despicable fuck isn’t he? I hope for his sake he’s 17; only a total, grade-A, 50. Cal Cunt could carry such a ludicrous sense of self-importance and disdain for others past their teenage years. Jesus, there’s some truly insufferable twats on the internet.

    #36 11 months ago
  37. polygem

    i don’t think gta v is a bad game, but i am 38. i just don’t want to play it. when i watch trailers and gameplay for this game i have to roll eyes. it’s not aimed at me. it’s aimed at a 21 yo me. that’s not a problem in general but i think it could become a problem for the game industry as a whole in the future as many many gamers are getting older (obviously). i don’t feel like playing gears or halo, even tlou, uncharted, bioshock or dishonoured anymore. they are aimed at twens. i’m not feeling these games anymore. i feel so much more at home with a game like demons souls which tells it’s story slowly, even a bit shy. even the so called kids games like pokemon or kirby don’t make me feel as childish as playing gears of war.
    what i’ve played this far, the attempts of the games industry to deliver mature content…wasn’t mature content. it was m rated twen content. even the praised stuff like heavy rain or the last of us.

    #37 11 months ago
  38. Panthro

    @36

    Sounds like sarcasm, no sweat.

    #38 11 months ago
  39. YoungZer0

    Personally I think the Housers are very much inferior to Tarantino, but they all suck. Have yet to see a good Tarantino flick. He makes dudebro movies and people pretend like they are somehow smart.

    There were scenes in GTA V that made me laugh, but that’s mostly thanks to the performance of the actors and not the writing. I wish was just being a jackass here, but I think I can count the numbers of laughs on one hand.

    I think it really needs a change of scenery. America is done. We got all the jokes now. The satire and characters in GTA IV were already over the top and annoying. They tried to out-do themselves with GTA V and the result was pure torture. Basically not a single character could not be an obnoxious jackass for a second.

    I’m tired of the writing. I’m tired of the setting. I get all the jokes before I hear them. I want something new. I know all the jokes about republicans and democrats. I know all the people they do a parody off. I know all the stereotypes they portrait.

    Don’t be afraid and move it to Europe.

    Edit: There was one mission with Franklin in which you had to stalk a british celebrity, that was one of the few scenes in the game that made me laugh.

    #39 11 months ago
  40. Clupula

    @35 – Scarface is actually a really overrated movie. I hadn’t seen it until about eight years ago and when I did, I was disappointed that such a big deal had been made out of it.

    And no, I won’t be praising Ron Howard any time soon.

    Oliver Stone is not one of my favorite directors. He’s no Lars Von Trier, he’s no David Lynch, he’s no David Fincher, or Park Chanwook.

    He’s definitely better than the Tarantinos, the Eli Roths, and the Uwe Bolls of the world, but so is Kevin Smith, and I wouldn’t list him as one of my favorite directors either.

    He made one film that I really like from a script I didn’t. That’s all.

    #40 11 months ago
  41. Ireland Michael

    @40 “Scarface is actually a really overrated movie.”

    “actually” implies that something is a fact. Opinions can’t be fact. It can’t “actually” be overrated. You can only think it is.

    You’re usually a sound guy Clup, but recently you seem to be extremely angry and aggressive with your opinions.

    #41 11 months ago
  42. VibraniumSpork

    @38 No buddy, it wasn’t, promise :D

    #42 11 months ago
  43. Clupula

    @39 – Exactly. Sometimes I think to myself, my problem is not so much with Tarantino, but with the cult that surrounds him, that like to pretend he’s actually an artist, when he’s not ever actually saying anything in his movies.

    You want someone who can actually say something with over-the-top characters and violence? Look at Paul Verhoeven.

    #43 11 months ago
  44. Clupula

    @41 – It’s just the subjects I’m reacting to that make me seem angrier than usual. Tarantino praise is like rubbing a raw nerve with me.

    #44 11 months ago
  45. monkeygourmet

    @44

    For someone who doesn’t like Tarantino, you sure know alot about him and his movies…

    Literally the man you hate to love…

    #45 11 months ago
  46. YoungZer0

    @43: “Exactly. Sometimes I think to myself, my problem is not so much with Tarantino, but with the cult that surrounds him, that like to pretend he’s actually an artist, when he’s not ever actually saying anything in his movies.”

    Yep, I think they are trying to be ‘cool’. For some people that’s enough, but not for me. He also never managed to pay homage to other classics without standing on its own. You want to see a proper homage to western movies that actually stands on its own? Watch ‘The Good, The Bad, The Weird’.

    That movie spits on Hollywood action flicks.

    “You want someone who can actually say something with over-the-top characters and violence? Look at Paul Verhoeven.”

    Definitely.

    @45: “For someone who doesn’t like Tarantino, you sure know alot about him and his movies…”

    Know your enemy.

    #46 11 months ago
  47. Panthro

    @clupula

    I see ‘art’ all the time…

    The mona lisa is art… Apparently

    I class art as something worth taking notice of and thinking about, paintings dont do that for me… But it sure does do it for alot of other people and I respect that.

    Its all down to opinion, and since now you’ve stated you don’t class tarantinos movies as art while trying to insult everybody who does you can now stop.

    I think everyone knows your opinion now, time to stop.

    #47 11 months ago
  48. Ireland Michael

    @44 I’ve seen all of Tarantino’s movies (not like there’s dozens of them) and none of them have ever left any sort of lasting impression on me. But… *shrugs*… if people like ‘em, whatever.

    #48 11 months ago
  49. DSB

    @39 No, I think it’s the opposite for Tarantino. They aren’t smart in the sense that there’s anything deep or intellectual there. It’s not insightful or enlightening. That’s not the point. The point is to entertain.

    How many times have you heard someone quote Pulp Fiction? People are still doing it today, even though the movie is 20 years old.

    Even though I’m sure Clupula would love to tell himself that it’s all an elaborate hoax, and everybody but he is “blind”, it’s actually because those lines are epic.

    And that’s why those movies are celebrated and admired. It’s just tight, straight to the point primordial movie fare, core stuff, written by a hyperactive “teenager” who wants to pack as many one-liners and absurdly memorable scenes in there as possible.

    I mean, Pussy Wagons and niggas with speech impediments, gimps and Big Kahuna burgers, 5 dollar shakes, and Hattori Hanzo swords. It’s like he’s so in love with those lines and those concepts that it comes through the screen.

    #49 11 months ago
  50. fearmonkey

    I have never really got into the GTA series for exactly this kind of stuff. It’s always been juvenile, and if you like that great, but it’s never been my cup of tea.

    I still want to play the game as it has a ton of stuff to see and do, but GTA has never been a major fav because of it’s crass childish atmosphere.

    I pretty much avoided Saint’s row: The Third for exactly the same reason until it was free on a weekend on Steam and I tried it, and really liked it. It is more silly and over the top than constantly crass. It’s still not a fav though.

    #50 11 months ago
  51. Clupula

    @49 – I’m thankful that I don’t actually know anyone who ever quotes Tarantino films, at least, since the mid 90′s. The closest I’ve ever heard to that is people who use the theme from “Twisted Nerve” as their ringtone. For people who only know movies through Tarantino, that’d be the song that Elle Driver whistles in Kill Bill.

    #51 11 months ago
  52. TheBlackHole

    “he’s no David Lynch, he’s no David Fincher, or Park Chanwook.”

    First thing you’ve said that I wholeheartedly agree with.

    Also, Natural Born Killers bored the shit out of me. Just my opinion.

    #52 11 months ago
  53. DSB

    Say what again.

    English motherfucker, do you speak it?

    Mind if I have some of your tasty beverage?

    Bitch be cool.

    #53 11 months ago
  54. Klaxusprime

    @2 I agree Pat, but why should Rockstar divert from the sex, cash and mayhem formula they have built their main product on? They will never risk the future of the whole Take-Two group (and you know how much financial pressure was on this company in the last 2 years before the launch of the game) for the sake of creative growth. And think about younger people than you who grew with a very different vision of “adult” art and entertainment.. look at how l.a. confidential performed.. Take-Two is adequating to deliver the minimum acceptable content for its target, it’s a shame but that’s the only way to keep gamers and shareholders happy it seems

    #54 11 months ago
  55. noamlol2

    9/10 people read the line maturation as masturbation

    or i’m just a sick pervert?

    #55 11 months ago
  56. Clupula

    @53 – I know all those lines, but no one I know quotes it. In fact, I know more people who quote Chris Tucker/Jackie Chan when it comes to wondering if someone speaks English than Samuel L. Jackson.

    And if you’re going to have someone else’s beverage, why wouldn’t you quote Daniel Day Lewis instead? I drink your milkshake.

    No, my friends and I. We don’t quote Tarantino. We quote Salo (“Mangia! Mangia!”), we quote Return of the Living Dead (“Do you ever fantasy…about being killed?”), we quote South Park (“Beefcake! Beefcake!”), we quote Starship Troopers (“Would you like to know more?”), we quote Robocop (“Bitches, leave!”, “I’d buy that for a dollar!” “I like it!”), we quote Full Metal Jacket and Goodfellas (which both have too many quotes to list here), we even quote Beavis & Butthead (“Hehehe…you said cock”), Archer (“Danger zone!”) and South Park (“Beefcake! Beefcake!”).

    Hell, half the conversations with my bandmates are “Always Sunny in Philadelphia” quotes. We’ve also started quoting Zardoz, just because that movie is so hilarious.

    But Tarantino, his attempts at cool have always fallen flat with my friends and I (all except for one, and he and I have just agreed to simply never discuss Tarantino ever).

    #56 11 months ago
  57. Panthro

    ^ wow… you and your friends seem seeeeew kwl.

    http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/air-quotes.gif

    #57 11 months ago
  58. Clupula

    @57 – Your disapproval of my friends and I will be worn like a badge of honor. If we seemed like the type of people you’d like to hang with, I’d consider us failures as human beings.

    …also, hated Austin Powers…

    #58 11 months ago
  59. Panthro

    Don’t worry I wouldn’t like to ‘hang’ with you and your imaginary friends. So you can still consider your self as a ‘successful human being’ as you clearly are… XD

    + Any person who decides whether they want to be friends with someone based on their movie preference is fucking stupid, good luck in your future endeavors… Hopefully one day you will wake up and realize other people can have opinions without you feeling like you have to ridicule them.

    #59 11 months ago
  60. Clupula

    @59 – You mean, like a person saying “clupula sure is a cunt” because I don’t like Tarantino films?

    It’s like you wrote that whole last paragraph about yourself and didn’t even realize it.

    #60 11 months ago
  61. DSB

    Well, if Clupula and his friends don’t quote it, that’s obviously my argument fucked right there.

    #61 11 months ago
  62. Clupula

    @61 – No, I’m aware that some of his dialogue found its way into pop culture, but so did American Idol, Gordon Ramsey, Call of Duty, and Justin Bieber. Doesn’t make it good. Pop culture is dictated by whatever happens to be popular for whatever reason. Thus, the word “pop.”

    I know that people existed who would quote Tarantino. I choose not to hang with them. Not because of their love of Tarantino, but because usually someone who is that into Tarantino is into a whole lot of other things I hate.

    I’m not someone who allows my opinion to be swayed by things like awards won or metacritic scores. I like what I like and I hate what I hate. And I choose friends based on that. And the people I’ve chosen to have in my life are people who equally live in a pop culture bubble, where it doesn’t matter what the media thinks is “cool” to us.

    If all someone wants to talk to me about is if I saw the latest episode of Jersey Housewives or whatever, or if I’m rushing to the theatre to see Transformers 4, then why should I want to talk to that person? I want to associate with people with similar interests and similar tastes so that we, you know, have things to talk about. Not what I’m told I’m supposed to be talking about.

    #62 11 months ago
  63. DSB

    @62 American Idol, Gordon Ramsey, Call of Duty, Justin Bieber, Jersey Housewives and Transformers 4 didn’t win the Palm d’Or. They didn’t win the Oscar for Best Original Screenplay. They didn’t win the Bafta for Best Original Screenplay. They didn’t win the Golden Globe for Best Screenplay. They didn’t win the National Society of Film Critics award for Best Screenplay.

    They didn’t make Roger Ebert say that any of their stuff was “so well-written in a scruffy, fanzine way that you want to rub noses in it—the noses of those zombie writers who take ‘screenwriting’ classes that teach them the formulas for ‘hit films.”

    They don’t get 95% positive reviews on Rotten Tomatoes either.

    Maybe you just aren’t a very good judge of what’s actually good or not?

    Opinons are cool, nothing fits everyone, but trying to somehow make it into a serious judgement of whether it’s quality or not is more than a bit silly. Obviously most of the people who actually know the difference would beg to differ with your verdict here.

    Maybe tone down the goth a bit. Sometimes something is actually popular because it’s good.

    #63 11 months ago
  64. Panthro

    I wasn’t saying you were a cunt because you dont like Tarantino, I couldnt give a poo what you like.

    Its your insistence that your right and everybody is wrong that makes you a cunt, even when it comes down to an opinion you still think your opinion is the only one that matters and everybody else’s is false.

    @63 Hahaha I’m not even kidding, I was going to make a south park reference earlier on about him being one of the nonconformist kids at school, but then I got sucked back into attack on titan and forgot about it.

    http://24.media.tumblr.com/4c78acc6136aac08e5d1cfc06422acb8/tumblr_mom00spyP31soy4uvo1_400.gif

    #64 11 months ago
  65. Clupula

    @63 – Okay, I can totally see how I come off like them sometimes. lol.

    But there are some popular things out there that I do like. I loved Breaking Bad. I love Game of Thrones. I really liked Dark Knight and Avengers. So, yes, some popular things are good.

    I don’t hate things because they’re popular. I hate them because, in my opinion, they suck. There’s plenty of unpopular things that I hate as well. But you wouldn’t care if I think Howling 2 is a shitty movie or if I say that I think Cannibal Corpse aren’t a great band.

    I just don’t happen to care what other people’s opinions are. Roger Ebert loved Last House on the Left, which is a movie I like. He also hated Blue Velvet, which is also a movie I like. His opinions were just opinions. They don’t count any more than yours or mine.

    I don’t know the metacritic score of any movie I like (or hate, for that matter) and I don’t care.

    Tarantino’s popularity comes down to a well-oiled, well-paid P.R. campaign that worked very, very well for him during an era where it was easy to call something cool. I remember people being impressed with Bill Clinton playing saxophone on the Arsenio Hall show around the same time. The 90′s were a really easy time to become fashionable, to be quite honest.

    If you like him, that’s great. I don’t think that I’m “right,” because there is no such thing as a “right” or “wrong” opinion. I will say exactly why I hate his films and why I think he’s one of the most overrated directors in history, but I’m not Francis. I don’t consider my opinion more or less important than anyone else’s, except when it comes to my life.

    #65 11 months ago
  66. DSB

    @65 Well, like I said, I got no problem with opinions. If someone thinks Tarantino sucks, that’s fair enough.

    If they think he doesn’t know how to write a screenplay, then they’re really just kidding themselves.

    Which again isn’t to say that winning every major award awarded for screenplays, or getting the nod from most of the influential critics out there somehow makes something technically good – But it really should serve as a hint that there’s “something” there which is probably comfortably above average.

    The thing that makes Rotten Tomatoes a good aggregator, unlike Metacritic, is that it doesn’t tally arbitrary data like scores. It really just takes a Yea or Nay from critics. If they score something above 60%, it’s counted as fresh, if they score it under, it’s rotten. The percentage is the number of “fresh” scores.

    Again, if that’s under 60%, it’s rotten.

    When 95% say it’s good, that’s a hint. Especially because (contrary to game critics) movie critics actually like to critisize. They’d love to take apart the newest, biggest movie.

    #66 11 months ago
  67. Gigabomber

    How many more muck rakers can we dig out of the pit that don’t appreciate proper satire? GTA 4 was your “mature” gta, now go fuck off and play it while the other 99% know GTA 5 is better. Were there missed opportunities for a more mature story? sure there were, but there wasn’t a single missed opportunity by these “journalists” to bash the latest GTA for “purile” content. Posers.

    #67 11 months ago

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