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Deep Down will not include playable female characters – report

Sunday, 16th February 2014 22:05 GMT By Brenna Hillier

Deep Down’s developers have made the choice not to include playable female characters in the free-to-play PS4 RPG, according to reports from a livestream event.

deep_down

According to DualShockers‘ translation of Capcom producer Kazunori Sugiura’s comments during a Nico Nico video, only male characters will be available.

Sugiura said the lack of female character is tied to the story somehow.

During the livestream, the producer also confirmed Remote Play on Vita will be supported.

At launch, there will be only four weapon types available – spear, sword and shield, greatsword and one unrevealed type – but this will be expanded later. Each weapon has very different gameplay.

The game will feature a story mode divided into four chapters.

The producer said that the “casual” difficulty present in last year’s Tokyo Game Show demo won’t be included in the final game, and declined to give any indication on beta or release date. We do know it won’t hit Japan until northern autumn at the earliest.

Thanks, Destructoid.

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95 Comments

  1. TheWulf

    Mmh.

    If they said that only a male character would be available, then I’d be completely okay with that, because that’s already been done. The Witcher had Geralt. And, frankly, considering Meer’s awfully flat and characterless voice acting, I consider the only Shepard to be Jennifer Hale. Sorry, BlokeShep was a hallucination that boring people had. He didn’t really exist.

    BlokeShep was actually just a blimp hovering above some swamp gasses that people just happened to believe was a Commander Shepard. BlokeShep is a common urban myth which has since been wholly disproved by Snopes.

    LadyShep was the only Commander Shepard, I won’t hear another word about this. I won’t entertain any delusions to the contrary.

    With that out of the way, I completely support games that have characters of only one gender, like The Witcher and Mass Effect, because sometimes you just have a character in mind for the role, so you run with that. I can’t perceive any issue with that, whatsoever. My issue, however, is that they said characters, rather than character. That means that they’re going to have multiple guys.

    So… they’d better have a damned good reason for not including an entire gender, that’s all I have to say. I don’t think that exclusion is cool unless there’s a damned good reason for it.

    #1 7 months ago
  2. yeoung

    Silly Wulf, artistic expression doesn’t need reasons, nor do design choices need sociological ‘validity’.

    #2 7 months ago
  3. salarta

    Oh, okay. Deep Down does not include playable female characters, and my list of games to play does not include Deep Down. Everybody wins!

    #3 7 months ago
  4. Telepathic.Geometry

    Every time I look at this game I feel like it’s an absolutely gorgeous looking game lacking a sense of place. There’re loads of tunnels and rooms with no rhyme or reason to them, with random monsters inside for you to hit until they are dead. Meh.

    The tech looks really impressive, but I think they could really do with having some of the monsters sleeping, or eating something, or digging holes or something to make it feel like a real world. Demon’s and Dark Souls was able to do this mostly by crafting a world that felt lived in, but a little bit of it was having enemy characters doing something relevant to their place (i.e. mining ore in Dragonfang mine, loading cannonballs in Sen’s Fortress).

    If this game can do that, it could be a new Demon’s Souls, but I seem to recall that the levels are randomly generated, so I don’t have much hope that it’ll turn out well in the end. Shame really, it really is jaw-droppingly gorgeous…

    #4 7 months ago
  5. Dark

    @salarta Wow seriously?

    #5 7 months ago
  6. derpachu

    Aw man. Still looking forward to it though… Wasn’t expecting it to, but it would’ve been cool.

    #6 7 months ago
  7. Samurai

    @TheWulf
    “Sugiura said the lack of female character is tied to the story somehow.”
    It doesn’t need to be a good story reason either. If it is for a reason in the story, then nothing else needs to be said.

    #7 7 months ago
  8. Dragon

    Cannot wait for self-proclaimed feminists with amazing double-standards to jump up on this.
    Oh wait, they already did.

    #8 7 months ago
  9. Obernox

    @TheWulf
    “Meer’s awfully flat and characterless voice acting, I consider the only Shepard to be Jennifer Hale”

    Ha, i thought i was the only one :)

    @salarta
    That’s a pretty crappy reason to skip a game….. unless Capcom is planning to release a day 1 DLC (Disc Locked Content) that gives access to playable females… i totally see that happening…

    #9 7 months ago
  10. Vice

    Don’t care about this game or ps3 overall, but I just gotta say that if I wanted to play this game, I’d be deeply disappointed. I prefer to have a nice eye candy on my screen instead of some ugly dude. For example, I’d play Witcher much more if I could chose a gender or a character overall.

    #10 7 months ago
  11. The_Red

    How can a last-gen game like Demon’s Souls have both with no problems while a big budget title for a next-gen platform must justify “lack of female character” by tying it “to the story” in a F2P game?

    #11 7 months ago
  12. schnide

    @Dragon

    Self-proclaimed feminists? What exactly are you talking about? Do you think there should be some kind of certification board before you can label yourself a feminist? Not that anyone does, mind because this isn’t about feminism. It’s about representation.

    Let me tell you a quick story, if you can keep your mind open enough before reading it with your previous views in mind. In the office, we recently convinced everyone to have a Friday gaming session on our PCs. We downloaded Team Fortress on Steam, because it’s free and everyone could play it.

    When it came to selecting our characters, from a choice of around five iirc, there were two girls in the office who wanted to join in. “Where’s the female character?” they asked. There wasn’t one. There was no virtual avatar for them to select. There was no female version of the standard player classes. There is no story in Team Fortress, so the only reason there weren’t female characters is because Valve didn’t include female character models.

    So the next time you go to play a game which has a character selection choice, imagine if for whatever reason you couldn’t find any character that you thought best represented you, but everyone else could.

    That’s what we’re talking about here. I don’t know what reasons you have to want to exclude those that make up half the planet from enjoying games the same way as us guys do, but at least be honest with yourself about them.

    #12 7 months ago
  13. Hcw87

    @12

    In Borderlands 2 if you play a Siren/Mechromancer you’re forced to play as a girl.

    No problem for me as a guy.

    #13 7 months ago
  14. Darkfield

    booooooooooooooooooooo

    #14 7 months ago
  15. schnide

    @Hcw87

    So there’s an “if” in your statement which implies you have a choice, yes? Keyword: Choice.

    Gaming allows for choice more than any other medium I can think of. It does not make sense, except for “because that’s the way it’s always been” not to include half the planet’s population when being represented by avatars.

    #15 7 months ago
  16. Dragon

    @schnide,
    Then, why films, books, and other forms of media get away with focusing on just one guy/girl.
    Please. Games, and for that matter, any entertainment medium, doesn’t need to be morally correct or doesnt need to make a statement about issues like gender equality, animal rights and *insert hot topic here*.
    Maybe these guys should join PETA, same activities.

    That said, I am not saying anyone cannot have preferences. I am just talking about over-reactive guys like Wulf and salarta.

    #16 7 months ago
  17. Hcw87

    @15

    I had the choice to be a male or female Demon Hunter in Diablo 3. I went with a female version. Why? It just fit better. Just like it fits better to have a female Siren and a female Mechromancer in Borderlands 2.

    I would never choose to play a female in a medieval/viking fighting game for example. It just wouldn’t fit with me.

    There is no need to overreact to this, and if you choose not to play a game because of gender availability, you are making no sense.

    There are bigger problems to be concerned about in this world.

    #17 7 months ago
  18. Darkfield

    @Hcw87 TBH, in D3′s case it works better if all of your chars are female. I really like my FemBarb, minus the accent of course.

    Honestly, we are not here to provide solutions for the many problems in the world you’ve mentioned. Frankly it gets under my skin when someone says that, we are not here for that. We are here discussing video games and what we perceive them to be valid issues in the games and the industry itself. Games are powerful mediums, it’s no longer just about entertainment anymore and they can raise the bar in breaking social barriers or set all kind of wrong precedents. In this instance, not including females in a co-op fantasy action RPG is a problem, in fact it is a big problem. And it doesn’t matter if some of us don’t care about it because we never play as female or whatever other reasoning we might have, this doesn’t make it any less of a problem.

    They won’t have any excuses for this decision, it can’t be connected to the story because, well it’s a story about time travelers going back in time to kill giant dragons. I sincerely doubt Capcom is capable of making stories on par with Witcher’s so I think they are just lazy and cutting expenses.

    #18 7 months ago
  19. YoungZer0

    Honestly, I’m totally fine with that.

    Even if the game included female characters, you can bet Brenna would be the first one to write another angry rant about it. But this time, it would be about the representation of the female characters. Apparently you can have your cake and eat it too.

    Why would you want that anyway? Have you not seen Capcoms track record with female characters? Do I need to remind you of Lost Planet 2?

    #19 7 months ago
  20. absolutezero

    http://youtu.be/miO8DPjSf78

    Check it.

    #20 7 months ago
  21. YoungZer0

    @absolutezero

    What a shitlord.

    #21 7 months ago
  22. CharlesLupula

    I wouldn’t have problem with it if there was one set-in-stone character for the story. Bioshock Infinite didn’t need you to have to choose between a male Booker and a female Booker. Lightning Returns (which is really underrated, btw) doesn’t need you to choose between a female Lightning and a male Lightning (which would be Cloud, wouldn’t it?). Nathan Drake. Kratos. Joel. All fine male protagonists. Aya Brea, Yuna, Nariko. All fine female protagonists. No need to make them the opposite gender.

    And, hey, I write and, sometimes, your main character is male. Sometimes, your main character is female. And as a writer, that’s your choice.

    But if I’m creating my own character, if I don’t have the choice to make it a her, I tend to not be interested. Part of it is that yes, if I must stare at a bum the whole game, I’d rather it be a woman’s, but also I like the idea of a woman having this whole big, typically male adventure. I think this is a mistake on their part. But then again, I wasn’t that interested in this game in the first place. If I want to play Dark/Demon’s Souls, I’ll play Dark/Demon’s Souls. And mixing in the very thing that makes me hate the Assassin’s Creed series (all that animus bullshit) isn’t going to make me want to play it any more.

    So, this just kinda makes my interest in the game go from low to non-existent.

    #22 7 months ago
  23. salarta

    @Dark Yes, seriously.

    I wasn’t even really paying attention to this game in the first place, but now I’m paying attention to it because apparently the people creating the game decided that women don’t exist except as extras to boost the men.

    I could understand if we were doing a Y: The Last Man situation in reverse here and starring a man instead of a titular last woman, but seriously, what are the chances of that? This isn’t a single-player game with a single-player story and a single-player character to follow. This is an online multiplayer game. A genre that necessitates a variety of options so the player can represent themselves in a way that feels comfortable. No playable women is essentially a screw you to one half of the sexes that could conceivably play the game.

    #23 7 months ago
  24. YoungZer0

    @salarta

    So you’re saying that you finally care about this game for the first time? Lawl, guess they did something right.

    Hey, maybe they’ll release a Jill DLC, just for you.

    #24 7 months ago
  25. schnide

    @Hcw87

    “I would never choose to play a female in a medieval/viking fighting game for example. It just wouldn’t fit with me.”

    And there we have the very root of the problem. It is not all about you. There are millions of people who play games who don’t have a penis. The only thing people are talking about is making characters that they can choose to play as too.

    Which all makes it very hard to argue against anything other than all those complaining about TEH FEMENITSTS!! are completely unable to see anything other than their own experience of gaming, and are under the impression that it’s somehow going to be taken away from them.

    #25 7 months ago
  26. OlderGamer

    Geez no wonder Brenna got ticked. Look at you boys.

    It reminds me of race/nationality/disability(or just about anything), you don’t really notice much of a problem, unless you are a minority. In games, well some games anyways, Women are a minority. A friend of ours stopped playing online games over XBL because of the harassment, for example. My wife won’t play anything with voice chat publicly anymore either.

    Games aren’t an exclusive club. And I think that choice should always be offered. Be it gender or race. Interesting people mentioned Diablo III. I like Diablo games. I loved Diablo II and was pissed that in order to play as a pure mage, I had to use a Female toon. I am glad Blizzard fixed that in their newest game.

    For what it is worth it still can be a touchy subject. I like games that offer a wide range of ways to customize your toons. Not everyone playing is the same size, shape, color or gender. For some folks that matters, for some it doesn’t. People of both genders play and enjoy Tomb Raider. Does anyone care if Mario is Male? Rescues a princess? Stereotypes run rampant in the game industry(just like in Movies/Music/Books/etc).

    I am not saying they are ok. And I think choice is good. I also encourage people to speak out when something is offensive. That is how change is brought about. But some things change slowly and some not at all. There is an underlying truth of both economics(sales charts, market trends, demographics…) and accepted society norms. Should Nintendo offer a Black or Asian Mario? A female Mario? What if playing as Peach(complete with pretty pink dress, crown and heals) is demeaning? All I am saying is that at some point you just have to roll with it. It is what it is. Sure you can shake your head in disgust. But in the end about all you can do is speak out and then not purchase a product.

    #26 7 months ago
  27. ChristopherJack

    I don’t see the big issue, sure less variety but big fucking deal. There are also games where you can only play female protagonists, yes even action games. Sure they’re often over sexualized but I find it hypocritical to point that out but never bat an eye at all the perfectly chiseled men on roids that star in their fair share of games too.

    #27 7 months ago
  28. Imperius

    This article is why I don’t care. You’re not going to buy a game because you can’t play as a female? Please spare me and shut it! I love Tomb Raider you don’t hear me crying I can’t play as a guy! God this shit just boils my blood!

    http://www.vg247.com/2014/02/17/deep-down-the-rabbit-hole-of-ingrained-games-industry-sexism/#comments-list

    Even locked comments…

    #28 7 months ago
  29. ChristopherJack

    I just dont see the point in pandering to a minority, sure woman have made great strides in video game adoption in the pass decade but the action genre is still dominated by men regardless. A lot of games also dont feature Africans, Asians or Hispanics, should they all be making a fuss too? Don’t get me wrong, I love variety! I just fail to see the issue. I’d like to see more Aussies represented in games but I don’t kick up a fuss when we’re not.

    #29 7 months ago
  30. schnide

    @ChristopherJack

    Look at your language. Pandering? Making a fuss? Such emotive words for someone claiming this not to be an issue.

    So yet again, I ask you and your brothers with boiling blood, could you please explain to me where it remotely makes your lives any worse in any way whatsoever to include female playable characters to allow women to play games in the same way that guys get to? Please explain to me exactly what this “pandering” deprives you of. Please explain to me why you being so ignorant as to only be able to see the world through your own experience means that those who don’t share it should endure your rage and sniping if they try to make it any more inclusive for them too? In short:

    How does it harm you to make things better for other people who aren’t you?

    #30 7 months ago
  31. salarta

    @YoungZer0 They got publicity, yes. “Any publicity is good publicity,” however, is a lie. Look at what happened to The War Z. Before, there was a chance I might have seen something about the game and wanted to play it. Now, what I know of the game is something that makes me definitely not want to play it.

    Also, I keep seeing people claim this is somehow a “feminist” thing. It’s not. That’s an obvious attempt to marginalize an obvious problem. It would be just as much a problem if the game was nothing but women. It’s just easier for some people to ignore the problem is a problem because they prefer to go along with the status quo idea that men are the default and women are just fluff.

    This is not a single player game where you’re following one person. This is an online multiplayer game. This is not God of War or Devil May Cry or Metal Gear Solid.

    You may as well be saying that World of Warcraft not having any playable female characters is fine.

    #31 7 months ago
  32. Hcw87

    @30

    ”So yet again, I ask you and your brothers with boiling blood, could you please explain to me where it remotely makes your lives any worse in any way whatsoever to include female playable characters to allow women to play games in the same way that guys get to? Please explain to me exactly what this “pandering” deprives you of.”

    If the devs needs to cut time/polish from other stuff just to add another gender (It’s not as simple as you may think), then yes, this negatively impacts the majority of consumers. I couldn’t care less if they included both genders if it didn’t impact anything else, but if it does, stick with one gender for all i care. You will never see me crying and whining about being forced to play as a female in _ANY_ game, so why all this overreaction?

    Nobody owes you anything, and you’re not forced to buy the game if you don’t like it. Just like you have a choice not to buy a game if it offends you in any other way.

    #32 7 months ago
  33. Imperius

    What gives you the right to tell a writer how to write a book? Nothing!

    That’s the point games are media!

    Freedom of expression! If they “have to” add female charters that’s infringing on a freedom!

    Guess I need to go tell Nail salons as a male I feel like men are under represented as customers. I think all their ads need to have a male and a female hand in them.

    I’ve played Perfect Dark loved it oh I was a girl? Didn’t care!

    I know many girls that love to play Zelda. Never once heard them go. I wish Zelda would save Link.

    #33 7 months ago
  34. fearmonkey

    While I love games to have female characters, I don’t feel every game has to have a female character. I think this much ado about nothing really.

    I don’t expect Larry Croft when I play tombraider, I don’t expect Natalie Drake in Uncharted, etc.
    IF we want to complain, lets ask why their hasnt yet been a major release of Assassins Creed with a female main character. We got the Tablet game and it’s PC port, but in 4 games, no female lead.

    #34 7 months ago
  35. YoungZer0

    @salarta

    But you don’t matter. Neither do I. You gotta understand that. We’re the informed crowd. The Minority. Most people don’t do their homework before they buy a game.

    The game sold much better with the attention it got. The devs just went overboard is all. I don’t even know if you buy videogames at all but I have huge doubts you buy games like WarZ to be honest.

    I usually never see you walk into an article and say that you enjoyed this or this game.

    The only game I do know you played is Remember Me. What games do you play?

    #35 7 months ago
  36. salarta

    @Hcw87 1) It’s easy for you to say “you will never see me crying and whining about being forced to play as a female” when playable male characters are rampant in the industry, and 2) AGAIN, this is not a single player game. Stop pretending it is. Even games like Mass Effect manage to have female character options, and that’s a single player series. Deep Down is an online multiplayer role playing game.

    You can say “I’ll play games starring female characters” all you want, it doesn’t matter how many single player games starring female characters you’re willing to play. It doesn’t change what this game is. This is not Metal Gear Solid. This is not God of War. This is not Remember Me or “Tomb Raider.”

    #36 7 months ago
  37. PEYJ

    Hmm.

    I seem to remember something about how the female writers of some DLC for Mass Effect 3 was surprised to experience that the gamers didn’t have a problem with creating only female playable characters for that particular piece of DLC.

    Apparently that is not the same case when it is reversed.

    #37 7 months ago
  38. Imperius

    @salarta Don’t like it? Don’t buy it! That simple! Do you think the wing place cares you don’t like wings?

    We get it you don’t like games you can’t play as a female in. Therefore don’t buy them. Thanks for your opinion we will look at the target demographic and give Zero F**ks. Thanks have a great day!

    #38 7 months ago
  39. Hcw87

    @36

    I played a female Draenei in WoW for years.

    #39 7 months ago
  40. fihar

    @Hcw87
    “If the devs needs to cut time/polish from other stuff just to add another gender (It’s not as simple as you may think), then yes, this negatively impacts the majority of consumers.”

    That’s the bloody fucking problem, mate. An entire gender shouldn’t be “just” an afterthought. Especially not in a game that has a character creation mode in 2014.

    Even if I disagree with Brenna’s hostility, she makes some very valid points.

    #40 7 months ago
  41. ChristopherJack

    @schnide Ummm. What? I like having the option to pick a female, as I said the more variety the better. My entire point is that people are acting as if the developers are excluding female characters out of spite when in reality they simply didn’t include them.

    Their biggest mistake imo is mentioning that it’s because of the story when in reality the best answer is to have no answer, they shouldn’t need to justify the lack of female players just like they shouldn’t need to justify the lack of Asians (not sure but despite the Japanese publisher and the % of the human publisher it’s still unlikely). There are countless reasons not to include a feature, time & money being the big 2.

    #41 7 months ago
  42. salarta

    @Imperius Ah, the “you have no right to tell a writer what to write” excuse.

    Let me put it this way. That writer can write whatever he wants. It’s perfectly within his right to create whatever he wants to create. But that doesn’t mean for one second that everyone needs to step in line and think it’s perfectly fine, or stay silent and just let it be without voicing concerns and complaints. Freedom of expression is a great thing, and it goes more than one way. The creators of Deep Down are within their rights to exclude women, and we’re within our rights to say just how wrong it is to do that.

    @YoungZer0 “The only game I do know you played is Remember Me. What games do you play?”

    All three Shadow Hearts games minus Koudelka, Saints Row 3 and 4, Resident Evil 1-5 plus Revelations, Silent Hill 1-4, Final Fantasy 1 – 12 plus FFT plus Chocobo Racing plus The Bouncer plus (list goes on and on), Parasite Eve and Parasite Eve 2, VVVVVV, Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross, Alan Wake and Alan Wake’s American Nightmare, all three F.E.A.R. games, Deadpool, Mass Effect 2 and 3, Lego Marvel Super Heroes, Nihilumbra, Portal and Portal 2, RAGE, Red Faction: Guerrilla, War of the Roses, The Last Story, Xenoblade Chronicles, Pandora’s Tower, Metroid: Other M (gameplay was good but I regret it due to story), Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds, inFAMOUS, inFAMOUS 2, Metal Gear Solid 1 – 4, Valkyria Chronicles, Folklore

    Should I keep going? I can keep going. I have over 30 PS3 games, games that go back to the Atari days to present, a Steam library with over 100 games (no I won’t list all of them) and a backlog going back to games I bought last summer. I’m currently replaying FF6 because I was in the mood for that first.

    And if it seems like I’m being fairly aggressive, it’s because I get the impression you’re trying to suggest I don’t play hardly any games. If you were simply curious, then I apologize for being rude.

    #42 7 months ago
  43. CharlesLupula

    The fact that this is becoming an issue against feminists just goes to show how much damage has been done by a lot of people within that movement, when it comes to the opinion of the typical gamer. When people spend their time whining about things like the way the Amazon and Sorceress were dressed in Dragon’s Crown or complaining about how Quiet looks in MGSV, when something like this happens, that actually is a real problem and a real matter of depriving both male and female gamers of choice, it gets dismissed as just another case of feminists making noise to make noise.

    This is something that people should be bothered by, but there has been so much unnecessary noise from people who wanted to see the devil in everything from Killer 7′s gigolo mode to Mario rescuing a Princess, that so many male gamers are just going to close their ears at anything involving gender in gaming.

    #43 7 months ago
  44. salarta

    @CharlesLupula No, it shows how readily people are eager to look for excuses to disregard a real problem that they don’t want to see addressed in any serious way.

    The constant need of the industry to show nearly all women half-naked or with unrealistic proportions are both actual problems. They affect self-image and self-esteem in women, which can lead to eating disorders and worse. Poor roles given to women is also a problem if they’re not balanced out by good roles of equal proportion, because it establishes a precedent of “women can’t do this,” “women can’t do that.”

    Speaking of which, I actually rather enjoyed this article on Cracked: http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-6-male-characters-women-never-get-to-see-in-movies/

    #44 7 months ago
  45. schnide

    @Hcw87

    “You will never see me crying and whining about being forced to play as a female in _ANY_ game, so why all this overreaction?”

    Because being ‘forced’ to play as a female is a rare thing, a breath of fresh air for you, which is exactlythe bloody point. And finally – if you don’t like it, don’t buy it? What an utterly ridiculous solution to the problem – so people who don’t have avatars they can identify with in games where they easily could, now can’t play these games at all?

    Again, where female avatars could easily be implemented into the character selection choices, how and where does it hurt you to widen the market?

    #45 7 months ago
  46. Imperius

    @salarta Go talk to model magazines and fashion sites about “unrealistic proportions”

    I think make up, boob jobs (plastic surgery) and any other method to hide ones self should be banned.

    Plastic surgery should only be for accidents, boob jobs (Brest cancer)

    Makeup is just false advertisement.

    Modeling should be banned. It would fix a lot of issues.

    #46 7 months ago
  47. CharlesLupula

    @Imperius – Hmmmm… you don’t seem to like anyone having any choices in anything in life, do you?

    @Salarta – How female characters are dressed isn’t a real problem. It upsets a couple people who get really noisy about it and it just serves to distract from real issues, because it makes people who might otherwise be allies stop listening.

    I know you don’t actually know any real life, flesh and blood women, but trust me when I say that I have played Dragon’s Crown with women, who do you think the first two characters they pick are? Amazon and Sorceress. I’ve even heard a few women say how great they think it is that the Amazon isn’t a skinny character, yet she’s proud enough to show off her body the way she does.

    But that view will get silenced because it doesn’t follow the party line. I’ve even heard someone on here claim that women who like that sort of thing only do so because they’ve been brainwashed by the patriarchy, which is the most sexist bullshit you could possibly say.

    The fact is that when you draw attention to non-issues, constantly, you close the ears of people who would agree with you on things like this. I don’t even read TheWulf’s posts anymore, because he has always come off as a pretentious douchebag, and yet, taking the time to do so now, I realize he and I kinda have the same point. Same as you and I about this. But the difference is that you two are so hellbent on coating everything in rhetoric that you just end up sounding like the adults on Charlie Brown, even when you do have a point.

    #47 7 months ago
  48. schnide

    @Imperius

    You’re joking now, aren’t you? So you don’t style your hair, right? Actually, maybe that’s a bad example..

    Makeup should be banned? Modelling should be banned? You know you’re on a gaming website and not a fundamentalist Islamic one, right?

    #48 7 months ago
  49. schnide

    @CharlesLupula

    “The fact is that when you draw attention to non-issues..”

    On the contrary, I find those who deem things “non-issues” to be the ones who are generally ignorant of them.

    I would love for you to explain to everyone what makes you qualified to decide what is and isn’t an issue, particularly all those you dismiss like Killer 7′s gigolo mode, Dragon’s Crown’s ridiculous sexualisation and the fact that Quiet is dressed in a way that a genuine hooker would be ashamed to go out on the streets.

    And when you’re done with that, you can also explain to us what motivations you think people have for bringing these “non-issues” to the fore. Because once again, you don’t think it’s an issue, so it isn’t one, is it?

    #49 7 months ago
  50. CharlesLupula

    @Imperius
    Also wanted to address a couple things you said…
    “I think make up, boob jobs (plastic surgery) and any other method to hide ones self should be banned.”
    Any other method to hide one’s self, eh”? So are proposing universal enforced nudity, since clothes are basically for that very purpose.

    “Makeup is just false advertisement.”

    That’s, uh…a very rapey thing to say. Who says a woman (or a man. We can wear makeup too) is “advertising” when they choose to wear makeup. That makes it sound like they’re doing it for you and not themselves. You might need to get over the whole idea that other people are your possessions before you end up doing time because of it.

    #50 7 months ago
  51. DeVitowned

    I’m outraged that Capcom has once again excluded a very important demographic with this game: the handicapped. I am tired of developers continuing to alienate this group of people. They give me the choice of how to design my character, but refuse to allow me to use a wheelchair if I want to? How can you people sit there and not think of the paraplegic gamers and their needs?

    #51 7 months ago
  52. CharlesLupula

    @schnide
    I turn it around and I challenge you to tell me why those are problems, exactly. Because you don’t like them? There are plenty of other people who like them fine.

    As for how Quiet is dressed, one, I don’t think you actually know any sex workers as people. I do. Don’t speak for them. They’re people and can speak for themselves. Two, I’ve been involved in the music industry for most of my life. I know plenty of women who dress in even less on a regular basis in their every day life. A very good friend of mine and a vocalist I was honored to do a duet with who lived in the East Village (of New York City, in case you’re unfamiliar with where that is) used to sometimes just walk around in panties, boots, and a top on days when she didn’t feel like wearing pants and the first time I met the girl who gave me my first piercing, she was walking around her store, just wearing a thong, trying on the various clothes they sold.

    Just because some people are afraid of female sexuality doesn’t mean all women are. But, as I said, that doesn’t tow the party line, so you won’t ever hear people defending a woman’s right to be sexy if she wants.

    #52 7 months ago
  53. Ireland Michael

    @Imperius Google “patriarchy”.

    The problem with Brenna’s article isn’t with her actual opinion. It’s with the blatant hypocrisy of her countless insults and overblown reactions. She has a minor meltdown almost every time her opinions is dissected or people respond to with the same aggression and verbal abuse she flings around at others.

    #53 7 months ago
  54. CharlesLupula

    @schnide In fact, there women, every year, in New York City that march topless to celebrate their right to do so.

    And have you ever heard of the Slut Walk? Where women dress in ways that are called, by less intelligent people, “slutty,” to show that they can walk where they want, however they want to dress, and it’s their right to do so without anyone harming them.

    #54 7 months ago
  55. Ireland Michael

    @Imperius “I think make up, boob jobs (plastic surgery) and any other method to hide ones self should be banned.

    Plastic surgery should only be for accidents, boob jobs (Brest cancer)

    Makeup is just false advertisement.

    Modeling should be banned. It would fix a lot of issues.”

    Women don’t have a problem with being sexualised, and it’s entirely up to them what they want to do with their own bodies.

    What women have a problem with it being objectified, and that it a completely different problem altogether.

    You’re basically saying the only solution to sexism is to ban things women *enjoy* expressinf themselves through… which is the equivalent of saying men should be banned from body building.

    #55 7 months ago
  56. Legendaryboss

    I wonder where we would be it Brenna opened up the floodgates on her article, comments wise.

    #56 7 months ago
  57. polygem

    sexism.
    racism.
    speciesism.
    all nasty stuff we need to get rid of asap if we truly want to evolve.
    nitnendo is better than sony though.

    #57 7 months ago
  58. schnide

    @CharlesLupula

    “Afraid of female sexuality..?” That’s what you think this is? No wait, it gets better – your definition of what a problem isn’t is based on there being.. people who think it isn’t a problem? So global warming, global starvation, the oppression of homosexuals etc. isn’t a problem?

    And what’s all this “party line,” crap? Could you show me where the agenda is? Where the clubhouse is? Where we all meet to get our propaganda fed to us? Or are you just happy to dismiss anyone who doesn’t share your almighty views as collectively organised idiots instead of open-minded thinkers en mass? “..so you won’t ever hear people defending a woman’s right to be sexy if she wants,” except for instance like the Slut Walk exactly as you mentioned.

    Okay, sorry dude. But in between you thinking you can decide what is and isn’t an issue, turning around the relevant questions instead of answering them, playing controversial games with women who love overly-sexualised characters, working in the music industry for years, being friends with sex workers and vocalists and getting your piercings, I’m really struggling to take you seriously and as someone other who deems yourself so self-important you’ll never see the issues.

    But wait – you don’t see the issues anyway, so how have we done anything other than just prove that point entirely?

    #58 7 months ago
  59. polygem

    men: remember one thing. you can be a real man, a strong warrior, a true MALE if you wash dishes, cook, have a strong woman on your side to fight with, you could even wear a dress if that´s your thing…you can still be a manly man. or not. it´s all up to you. it´s in your head. get rid of that learned role model bullshit. we are all human beings. everyone´s the same, some have cocks, some vaginas, it´s for making more humans, that´s about it. free your mind.

    #59 7 months ago
  60. FinalStar

    “I wonder where we would be it Brenna opened up the floodgates on her article, comments wise.”

    I doubt it would be very pleasant, but I’d say she set up the nasty tone in her piece pretty decisively.

    If she’s so happy to talk the talk, she should have the courage to talk the talk. But clearly that’S not the case.

    #60 7 months ago
  61. Darkfield

    @Legendaryboss shutting up the right to expression and freedom of speech when you know you’re in the wrong is standard practice in middle-east. It shows how terrified and insecure one can be when those who can see passed through your hypocrisy call you out on that.

    One thing I like about Dave and Steph is they are engaged with their audience and are not afraid of taking heat on what they say. So because of the respect I have for them I still am a frequent here. I cant recall an instance when they decided to hide behind a wall of insecurity because of the hurtful thing people ‘might’ throw at them and close down comments.

    I probably wouldn’t have cared enough to post a comment on that particular article but I do now because that choice was stripped from me based on this assumption that everyone or rather every male in the world are out there to get you.

    I’m not even going to touch the fact how she constantly contradict herself in her opinion pieces.

    I’m not trying to attack her, that is not what I do, and that is not what this’s all about. However these types of poor conduct bothers me as I have always liked VG247 even at time that I didn’t agree with everything that was going on here. It’s merely expression of my concerns.

    #61 7 months ago
  62. dtyk

    @61

    Well, I will do that honor for you then. I think Brenna does the most unprofessional shit in any industry ever conceived. This recent rage article, Remember Me article, the DMC “fuck you” article, and the list goes on.

    I’m making it a point for this to be heard. I’m tired of reading her rage rants that is completely lacking any voice of reason or bias. She’s just another self contradicting feminist that is too scared to take on the heat. “Comment fucking closed” lawl.

    #62 7 months ago
  63. deathm00n

    @Darkfield I agree with you. The main question about that article is quite simple in my view: Capcom made a poor choice in not including females characters, do we have the right to be pissed? Maybe, Ask yourself if you think this is a major issue to you and the complain if you want. BUT what Brenna did was pushing things down our throats without giving the right to defend ourselves and assuming we would really do nothing to contest her right to do so. She has a pretty closed mind for a journalist, the same happened in the ESO preview. She don’t like MMOs or long conversations with NPCs, she previewed the game with more of those things in existence, and thought she had the right to say the game was bad, because it didn’t pleased her. That’s forcing your opinion upon others. And people don’t like it.

    #63 7 months ago
  64. CharlesLupula

    @schnide
    Oh sweetie, don’t be so mean. It makes you ugly.

    Did you see what I did there? I can be dismissive instead of addressing anything a persons says too, which is exactly what you did. And you know what? It doesn’t help anybody when either of us do that. And by doing that, you proved my point, that there is a large portion of the feminist movement that does far more harm than good for women’s issues. You are obviously a part of that portion.

    Because what you do is turn potential allies off to issues of progress by constantly dismissing anyone who doesn’t fall in line with whatever your first period women’s studies class taught you. It doesn’t allow variety. It doesn’t allow deviation. There is what you like and what you don’t. And what you don’t is always evil. It isn’t simply a matter of opinion. It must be cleansed, like some sort of Pentecostal Christian, feeling he must stomp out homosexuality before the government lets his son marry a man.

    The way a character is dressed in a game is merely a matter of personal opinion. You may dislike it. Other may like it. You act like your OPINION on it is the only right one and those who like it must be dismissed and ignored, their choices taken away from them to play a scantily clad character if they so wish. That’s why on this game, I’m on the same side as you, because I want people to have choices. I want people to be able to play as a female if they want to. And i also want them to have the choice to make that character scantily clad if they want or to make her covered up, from head to toe, in armor, if that’s their choice. I want people to have more freedom. Not less.

    I am going to quote the Dead Kennedys at you, in a song that I quoted before, about people like you.

    “How many liberators really want to be dictators
    Every theory has its holes when real life steps in
    Ever notice hard line radicals can go on star trips too
    Where no one’s pure and right except themselves
    Do you wanna help stop war? Well, we reject your application
    You crack too many jokes and you eat meat
    What better way to turn people off then to twist ideas for change
    Into one more church that forgets we’re all human beings”

    #64 7 months ago
  65. Legendaryboss

    Thats reminds me that article if promoted enough could have been a DMC Fans are a crying spiritual successor.

    #65 7 months ago
  66. Imperius

    @CharlesLupula No I’m not suggesting nude… They hide thier face with bat poop to look and feel pretty because a magazine said to. (Problem)
    When I said false advertisement it’s like the sandwhich pictures at fast food chains. Wow that burger looks good. You get home… That’s not what the picture showed.
    I’d never rape a woman not think of her as property. At the same time I don’t care if there is a female character or not. It does become a problem when some femnazi tries to blow a situation that is not a situation out of the water cause she didn’t get her way.

    It’s the whole daddy says I’m a princess thing.

    Don’t even get me started on feminist double standards.

    Go watch The View… What a piece of trash show. They talked about a woman that tied her husband down in his sleep, ice packed his penis and cut it off. They laughed and said ooooo what did he do to her to deserve that… I’m like what! No one! No one deserves mutilation because of infidelity. Yet it seemed ok in thier minds.

    Look we are all people that’s that. Games are games and made by people with visions. No one has the right to tell them what they should do. You do have to right to not like it and not buy it, but spare us your stupid wines.

    #66 7 months ago
  67. gaming_journalist0101

    http://www.vg247.com/2014/02/17/deep-down-the-rabbit-hole-of-ingrained-games-industry-sexism/

    The above link leads to an ‘article’ that I believe is authored by a juvenile teenager with an over inflated ego and sense of worth. By far this is the worst piece I have ever read on this site and has made me created this account just to comment on it. It is nothing more than an opinion piece and the fact that it’s still up leads me to believe that the editors of this site no longer give a shit about their readers or about the integrity of their own site.

    #67 7 months ago
  68. ij 44

    Sucks not to have pussy and tits characters to play as and wank to

    #68 7 months ago
  69. Sylrissa

    For me a game has to be phenomenal (example the witcher series) for me to not care about the lack of a choice in playing my own gender.

    In a co-op multiplayer game like this, I find it unacceptable and won’t be picking it up.

    #69 7 months ago
  70. Darkfield

    @ij 44 I’m trying to imagine how do you get to that conclusion given the fact these characters are fully armored and there are no exposures, it was so in the dark souls and demon’s souls too and all my chars are female.

    #70 7 months ago
  71. YoungZer0

    @salarta:

    I meant games that came out last year in particular. And I was curious, you rarely write anything about games you currently play. Or rarely anything positive about current videogames.

    But I see you mentioned War of the Roses. Far as I know, the game did not include any female characters. Did that bother you back then as well?

    Also Shadow Hearts is fucking awesome and totally underrated.

    #71 7 months ago
  72. fearmonkey

    I think it’s wrong that the site can write an opinion piece and shut down the comments section on it. I understand that it’s their site and all of that, but if your going to write an opinion, especially one that comes across angry and scathing, then others should be able to voice their nays or yays.

    Gamers are an entitled bunch aren’t we. I want this so if I don’t get it, then that means your bad and sexist, which is ridiculous. When we watch a movie, should they cast a female actress as the main character and a male actor in his own version and show the different versions at different theatres as to not offend anyone. Should there be different versions of books where the main character is split into different genders as well? If a game has a plot, should be alsways worry about being so inclusive that we don’t forget or offend anyone?

    I love playing female characters in MMO’s, multiplayer, and I like playing them in single player games as well. I also play male characters in MMOs, multiplayer games, and single player games. I love having choices, especially if the game has different gameplay for being a different gender, but I don’t demand either option. The game experience is richer if we have choices, but i don’t expect it.

    I played a femshep though the entire trilogy and loved Jennfier Hale’s voice acting. I only picked her because I liked her acting better than the guy actor, who was that typical space marine type. Hale’s acting was wonderful and The game was certainly better for me than if I was stuck with the male shep. I applaud Bioware for giving us a choice.

    However, would I have loved the game without a fem shep as an option? i know I would!,
    It’s just great we have the option.

    Throwing both genders in all games doesnt always make sense though, and to me it’s a bit crazy to get all upset about one game not having it. If theplot is about guys, then its about guys. It wouldnt stop me as a guy from playing a game that was mostly about women.

    When you have to make concessions and change your plot or vision of a game to appeal to everyone, thats sad. We should allow creators to make the games they want and then judge them. if the game is piggish or chauvinistic then let it be destroyed in reviews, but otherwise its no big deal.

    #72 7 months ago
  73. Gekidami

    I have to say, Brenna’s opinion piece is terrible, but the fact she decided to stick her fingers in her ears and cower away from comments? Thats just shameful.

    “go ahead and bleat about misandry, you worms; I’ll enjoy a tasty cup of your male tears”
    Ha.

    #73 7 months ago
  74. For Blood

    I see nothIng wrong wIth thIs. If that Is the game they wanted to make then that Is theIr choIce. As It Is your choIce to not buy It.

    BTW the mobIle versIon comment box blows, It automatIcally turns lower cases “I” Into an upper case “I”.

    #74 7 months ago
  75. gyactive The

    mario a Luigi anyone ?

    #75 7 months ago
  76. Tyrantsoul

    What the hell happened to Vg24/7?1st theres this god awful revamped look now this.Was Brenna’s article alway locked in the comments?It was the most childish thing I have read in a long while from a game journo.To go as far as to say its sexist on capcoms part.Its their game.If its part of the story whats the issue?Did they ever say that there would be a playable female or was that an assumption on your part Brenna?

    As for them being Sexist

    Jill Valentine
    Claire Redfield
    Rebecca Chambers
    Chun-Li
    Regina(Dino Crisis)
    Sakura
    and the list goes on.Some of the strongest female characters in gaming.Jill been my all time fav character of any game.Do I complain that I can only be female in Tomb Raider? no I dont(Lara my 2nd or tied 1st fav).

    I hope vg24/7 gets its shit together because its going downhill fast.Nevermind the fact that Brenna’s article was full of BS we couldn’t even post in it.I get the feeling this site is becoming a cheap click bait.Sad really as I used to hold vg24/7 as my pinnacle in game news.

    #76 7 months ago
  77. Templar0929

    @Imperius Aye, exactly, she even made claims that females don’t do programming due to sexism in that industry. I’d like to see what sources support that assertion. When I did programming at college after leaving school, there were only three girls on the course and one dropped out. The other two messed around with a small section of boys who also realized too late that it wasn’t the course for them (I hated it too after the first year but I forced myself to complete the entire course). This seems to be the case with programming if you look at the statistics. Indeed, there are more women doing courses such as health and social care, drama, fashion, creative media and creative arts than men and I say that as someone now doing creative media. Should I say sexism against men is occurring because most people on my current course are women and that men are being prejudiced against so they don’t choose the more creative courses?

    http://www.openstudycollege.com/news/article/female-students-stick-to-feminine-subjects.html

    In any case, I see no reason why a woman’s avoidance of programming is due to sexism. That occurs mainly in the gaming community but not general programming community. Perhaps people just to wake up and realize that many women just aren’t that interested in boring technical stuff. Even now, there are still more male scientists that female scientists (and this is in the scientific community).

    Brenna has the right to her opinion, some of which I agree on but that point she made in the locked article isn’t supported by any evidence. Even with sexism eliminated, I highly doubt we’d see an influx of female developers. Just look at the indie scene where we see most developers are still men (and this is where you can single handily create an app and publish it on Android or iOS so there’s no excuse to be made there).

    #77 7 months ago
  78. Imperius

    @Templar0929 Agreed

    #78 7 months ago
  79. YoungZer0

    @Templar0929

    Well said.

    #79 7 months ago
  80. silkvg247

    Oh man.. do I dive in here? Every time I’ve gotten involved in this kind of topic I’ve instantly been labelled as a feminist. The sad thing being, I’m not. The other sad thing being “Feminism” used as an insult when real feminists are a pretty well rounded bunch fighting for a good cause. I’m just not one of them because I don’t have the patience to strive for equality when I can see.. day in day out.. even on vg247, that nothing changes.

    Ill say my piece anyway, though I already said most of what I had to say on the topic here:
    http://silkwp.wordpress.com/

    Basically I’m seeing the same ridiculous counter arguments, being made without any deep rational thought being given beforehand. This whole argument that being able to choose your gender is somehow the same as being able to choose your race or background is gigantically flawed. Isn’t it obvious why? No matter WHO you are, you can say for utmost certainty that you are male, or you are female. This top line demographic includes 100% of the human species.

    You exclude females. BAM! 50% of the human race, excluded. Doesn’t matter if I’m black, white, purple.. whatever. My gender doesn’t exist so why would I care what skin colour I can pick? The first thing you pick in ANY character creation process is your gender. THEN you fine tune the specifics.. colours, hair styles. The more variety, the better. Gender is always first, as it’s the most important choice to every player.

    So don’t tell me that I’m being a feminist when I seek to simply *exist* in the games that I enjoy playing. TF2 is still one of the worse offenders.. it’s wrong. I’m astounded Valve never did fix it. And now Deep Down, an RPG, also alienating us? Great. This is what I meant by “nothing ever changes”.

    #80 7 months ago
  81. silkvg247

    @Templar0929

    You are only looking at the surface of a very deep seated problem. Yes, women will tend to go for more “feminine” things over programming but WHY is this? There are countless social expectations burdened upon women, force fed to them from childhood. Same goes for guys. We’re programmed by our society and our media, and it takes a very strong or different person to break away from the mould that is laid before us.

    That’s why a female programmer is as rare as a male ballerina. Those few are the people that dared to be different.

    We need more people like them.

    FWIW, I’m a programmer. ;)

    #81 7 months ago
  82. Imperius

    @silkvg247 Most of is play games because they are fun past times. Not so we can create our own avatars. If not being able to play as a girl is the issue maybe you should look at yourself.

    I play as aliens, men, women, robots, tanks, air plains, cows, bears, and plenty of other things.

    Not once did I say… I need to play as a human in all my games, let alone divide it again by saying I need to always play as a male human.

    Get over yourselves. FFS

    #82 7 months ago
  83. silkvg247

    @Imperius Uh.. I think if we’re talking aliens or robot cows then it’s a bit different as we’re on equal footing since neither of us get to portray ourselves with any sense of realism.

    If you can be a dude in a multilayer game, you should be able to be a woman. Countless logical arguments have been presented as to why this is, the most prominent one being “Because it would create more female gamers”.

    Get over ourselves? ..Really? Mate, you must lack any form of imagination.. otherwise you could at least stop and ponder what it’d be like if things were the other way around. Would you get over yourself if you were unhappy that you could only be a dude in 10% of multiplayer games? The rest of the time you’re forced to be a woman.

    #83 7 months ago
  84. Ireland Michael

    @silkvg247 Most men will respond to an argument that by saying something like “I won’t care, because at least I’ll have a nice butt to look at”, and the reason for this is because many can’t seem to detach women from their thoughts in a way that isn’t related to their sexual attraction to them.

    Unless the game is specifically going for a story where the character is already pre-defined, there is simply no excuse not to have female avatars in your games anymore.

    #84 7 months ago
  85. salarta

    I’m late responding! Because I do other things besides this.

    @Imperius I have a feeling that your comment is primarily exaggeration in order to try to make some kind of a point. If that’s not the case then sorry, but it’s how it looks to me.

    People like to model. They also want, or need, to get plastic surgery, and the needs for it aren’t limited to accidents. Makeup isn’t false advertisement. It can be if that’s the mindset a person is in about using it, but it can be many things, including a form of self-expression that uses the face and body. In that context, it’s only “false advertisement” if your view is that a woman’s basic physical beauty is more important than her identity as a person. None of these things are bad. They only become bad if the focus is inappropriate, such as model magazines tries to push impossible beauty standards on children and teens that might take it as the example they need to adhere to. It’s only a problem when the world implies that’s how all women should be, and that is, in fact, the problem with many of those magazines. Modeling is fine. Sending a message that the way a model looks is what all women should try to be is not.

    @CharlesLupula The way a female character dresses is mainly a problem depending on the type of clothing and the reason for the character wearing it. A female character wearing something sexed up because it fits her personality and lends to the story is fine. A female character wearing something sexed up just because the director had a hard-on at seeing her whimpering in a maid outfit even though it doesn’t fit the character at all and has no story relevance, on the other hand, is not fine. You don’t see the same number of games where a guy is running around in a thong even though he’s the least sexual man on earth and he has no story reason for wearing it, after all.

    “I know you don’t actually know any real life, flesh and blood women,”

    Okay, I’m now done talking to you. Enjoy your desperate excuses and all that.

    @DeVitowned You know what, more games SHOULD include handicapped characters. Thanks for pointing out a demographic that deserves representation! They could have gun mounts and chainsaws on their wheelchairs.

    @YoungZer0 Ah, in that case, games that came out last year in particular: Lego Marvel Super Heroes, Saints Row IV, Tales of Xillia, Remember Me, Resident Evil: Revelations (PS3), Pandora’s Tower, Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, Deadpool, and that’s all the ones I can remember at the moment. Again, I have a backlog of games. Some of them, like Killer is Dead and Outlast, are ones released last year that I just haven’t gotten to yet.

    War of the Roses can be forgiven because it’s based on history. If there were any women fighting among the Yorks and Lancasters, they were an exception. Complaining about a need for female playable characters in that game would be like demanding common female U.S. troops in a game set during World War II. At absolute best, you can say that a woman might have snuck into the ranks by pretending to be a man, but she would still be seen as a man due to, you know, pretending to be one to be allowed to join the fighting.

    @fearmonkey There’s nothing wrong with the site shutting down its comments section for an article. They want to do it, they can. In fact, on a topic like this, it’s actually better for everyone that the comments are shut down; as proven by science (and probably the comments here), a comment section for that article wouldn’t have helped it: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-09/why-were-shutting-our-comments

    @Tyrantsoul Hey, notice something that stands out there about most of the women on your list? If not, let me tell you. Rebecca hasn’t been in any games for a decade (Umbrella Chronicles doesn’t count). Jill was reduced to a damsel in distress that’s forced to be a villain, with her two years of suffering existing SOLELY so we could see Chris’ reaction to it rather than so we could see how it affects Jill herself; she doesn’t even get to have closure to her torment by joining in killing Wesker, the game just has her throw up her hands and toss a rocket launcher to Sheva as if to say “here, you deserve to be by Chris’ side instead of me, please take over.” Jill starring in Revelations was a side game, possibly the only bright spot lately, and Chris was in it. Claire? She hasn’t been a truly playable character in a main entry since Code Veronica, and Degeneration consisted of Claire being a damsel in distress for Leon to rescue TWICE. No, Leon throwing a gun at her for her to shoot a few zombies does not make up for it given Leon doing much more and having this whole “get Angela in the end” thing. And Regina? Who’s heard of Regina in years?

    The Capcom you’re talking about is dead. You can’t ignore the actions of the company today based on the actions the company took in better days, when guys like Mikami and Inafune were around.

    @silkvg247 I think some people are trying to turn the word ‘feminist’ into a dirty word by applying it to every single person that ever voices a complaint about poor depiction and treatment of women, whether in rights or video games or whatever. Attach a stigma to it, and they can then use word games to get their way. Luckily, in some ways I think that helps people that actually care about women being treated better, because it stops being viewed as a specialist cause, at which point people have an easier time realizing that it’s not so much “being feminist” as it is “not being an asshole.”

    #85 7 months ago
  86. YoungZer0

    @silkvg247

    “That’s why a female programmer is as rare as a male ballerina. Those few are the people that dared to be different.”

    Or maybe those are the people that just wanted to do different stuff, because they cared about different stuff? Seriously, I have heard the “Society is at fault!” excuse so many times, it’s tiring.

    You gotta understand that you can only blame so much on society before it becomes ridiculous. At the end of the day, you’re responsible for yourself. Most women just don’t care about programming, not because of society, but because of their interest. That’s just how it is. No big mystery here.

    You’re not a special snowflake, you’re just interested in other things. Women who don’t share your interest in programming aren’t being oppressed, they just don’t care.

    #86 7 months ago
  87. Legendaryboss

    Question. Is this argument still being extended by Brenna’s response to this articles and commenters? Or is there still unfinished business? Or both?

    #87 7 months ago
  88. salarta

    @YoungZer0 You’re wrong. The history of programming is such that women were heavily involved (Ada Lovelace is widely considered the first computer programmer, for example… and not just “first female programmer,” but the first programmer in the whole world), then it got framed as a male-centric thing, and now women are trying to get back into something that used to be more inclusive to them.

    When society tries to frame something as supposedly off-limits based on your biological sex, it takes a lot more effort to break those enforced boundaries than to just go with the flow in order to avoid social stigma and isolation. Look at the reaction people have to men that wear dresses and makeup as an example that you might recognize more readily.

    #88 7 months ago
  89. Dragon

    I think all games from now should not only pass through ESRB/PEGI etc. but also a PETA, FEMEN, US Government, Chinese, Russian, EU , all religion boards, plus all other self important groups before releasing their game.
    After all, most loud people on the internet cannot really understand that Game are a work of fiction and hence, they need to appease everyone 100% of the time. Lest they face the wrath of these self-important people, who obviously are so intelligent that they will use hours of their time bashing their keyboards just because a game didn’t include *gasp* human female species. Never saw them around when games like Skullgirls, Mirrors edge, and others ignored the other half.
    Silly me. Continue on.

    #89 7 months ago
  90. YoungZer0

    @salarta

    Sorry but even if that is true, one example does not make it the rule. There is nothing stopping women from programming. No, not society. No one but themselves. We’re talking about fucking jobs here, not men running around in dresses. That is an entirely different subject.

    Nobody gives two fucks about the job you do. You’re fooling yourself if you think people look down on woman who work in technical jobs. Again, nobody gives a shit about that. It’s not an “immoral” job, so why would people care?

    That’s just bullshit and unless I’m seeing a specific and unbiased study (which I’ll fucking read), I don’t believe that this is a problem that actually exists. I doubt there are people running around there saying “My daughter won’t be a programmer!”, male ballerinas, maybe, but freakin’ programming? Really?!

    Hell, far as I know there are specific programs for women that men do not have. Guess what happens? They don’t care. They are walking past people who would welcome them with open arms.

    No one but themselves to blame.

    #90 7 months ago
  91. Djoenz

    Holyshit I had to rub the touchpad of my laptop so many times it was like I was fingering some chick.

    #91 7 months ago
  92. Dragon

    “There is one male main character in Deep Down. The story is being developed around him and his surrounding Ravens comrades.”

    http://gematsu.com/2014/02/deep-producer-clarifies-male-main-character

    Can people understand this?

    #92 7 months ago
  93. salarta

    @YoungZer0 You’re seriously saying that the only factor that determines whether or not women become programmers is their level of interest. Seriously.

    You know what, this whole argument reminds me of the military. For decades, it’s always been claimed that women can’t fight and don’t want to fight anyway. But then when you actually LOOK at the culture, you see plain as day that anyone making claims about women not being able to handle the military is bullshit mingled with a great deal more harassment aimed at women, sexual and otherwise, within a hierarchy where the victim is blamed and forced to keep quiet.

    Now, yeah, programming isn’t anywhere near as bad as the military, at least as far as we’ve heard. But seriously, a field that has been taken over by men and is constantly promoted as the domain of primarily men… and that’s somehow not a barrier to entry? We have women that can recall with perfect detail times where they wanted to play games with a group of guys, only to be spurned or treated oddly just because they’re women. Harassment and stalking of female players in video games is so bad that we know for a fact women have purposely avoided talking or else lied and claimed there were young boys while playing just to keep it from happening to them.

    We have all this happening to women when they try to play video games, simply PLAY them, and you really, REALLY don’t think that there isn’t a barrier to women becoming programmers based in how they’re treated and depicted by the culture?

    @Dragon First off, look at the date of that article. You’re taking brand new information, stuff nobody in this topic ever saw because it didn’t exist yet, and trying to make it sound like it was news everyone knew from the start. The producer of Deep Down himself said, according to him, that there was a mix-up of information where it sounded like the game would have 12 characters when there’s only one.

    Second, given that this is being most heavily promoted as an online multiplayer game, I have a very hard time believing the game really has only one character (let’s call him Albert) that remains static, with a major story where he has such an identity built up that he absolutely must be male. If that’s really the case, then is that really how online multiplayer is going to be? Teams of the exact same guy running around? “Hey Albert, it’s Albert here, did you bring Albert and Albert so we can fight Dark Albert? No, I didn’t say Albert and Albert, I said Albert and Albert. Yeah, that’s right, Albert.”

    You can’t say they’re just the same class coming from different backgrounds like in Diablo games, because as the producer just said, there’s only one main character, and the team’s insistent that the main character absolutely must be male because of some entirely unexplained story reason. If the story is so important that you have to be locked into only one sex, then it must also be so important that your one main male character is the exact same character as the other people you’re playing the game with.

    What makes it sadder is that even the Diablo series, despite restrictions on how much you can customize the characters, was still able to provide multiplayer functionality and a defined story (mainly for Diablo II and III; first game is really loose about it) without making everyone male. I guess we’ll see though. I look forward to seeing what kind of riveting epic tale worthy of the Nordic gods of yore you can get when you put Albert in the same room with Albert, Albert and Albert.

    #93 7 months ago
  94. silkvg247

    @YoungZer0 You are wrong on two points. Firstly, I am a special snowflake, we all are as a matter of fact. You know. Being unique and all.

    Secondly.. you’re getting confused so I’m going to try explain this again.

    Am I saying that it’s more difficult for a woman to become a programmer – that it takes more time or effort than it does for a guy? No, not even remotely. If a woman chooses that path, then her ability and determination will see her through every bit as much as it would if she were a he.

    Your dismiss that there could be any society related problem that causes minorities to occur in an industry in the first place. Then you contradict yourself by saying it’s because the person doesn’t chose said path. What, exactly, do you think contributes to a person’s thought process when they are making that choice? Do you not think their parents, their friends, television, news, peer pressure, everything around them in fact, might have a *smidge* of an effect on that whole thought process?

    Why are female programmers so scarce when they can do it every bit as well as a man? Why are there so few male secretaries and nurses? See ALL of the above.

    You like stats don’t you.. here’s the ratio of male nurses:
    http://www.minoritynurse.com/minority-nursing-statistics

    Crazy.. men are just as good at women at this job. I guess they don’t like being associated with a traditionally feminine job, perhaps they don’t want to deal with the almost guaranteed jibes from their friends and family. maybe working with a lot of women makes them feel uncomfortable or puts pressure on them.

    Programming is deemed a masculine job. It’s a guy on the front of every “How to C#!” book. All teachers that I’ve come across, male. 90% of colleagues, male. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy; women won’t get into the job because women aren’t in the job. And the men either don’t care or pretend that there isn’t an issue in the first place.

    I believe both the nurse and the programmer scenarios are caused by the environment we grow up in. Why would a girl take an interest in programming when she has no role model in programming to aspire to? We don’t have a Bill Gates. We’re not on front of programming books. The female character in the IT Crowd is the only non programmer. The girls in the big band theory, not even remotely interested in IT. We have absolutely no representation in the field at all, and yet you expect us to take a natural interest in it?

    I’d appreciate it if you could at least take some of what I’ve said on board seen as, I’m a female programmer who’s literally grown up in the industry and worked there for the past 20 years.. kind of first hand experience.

    #94 7 months ago
  95. YoungZer0

    @silkvg247

    If we’re all special, then we’re all the same.

    Second: I guess you’re the one who’s confused here, all I said is that most women don’t want to be programmers, because they don’t care. If they cared, they would be programmers. Same goes for male nurses. Never did I write anywhere that female programmers or male nurses there less capable then their counter-part. That’s all you.

    I think anybody that needs a rolemodel to understand what to do with their fucking life is one weak-ass person. Furthermore, I think if you let your job define you as a person; you’re a weak-ass person.

    That is all.

    #95 7 months ago

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