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Carmack: RAGE PC issues “have been a real cluster!@#$”

Friday, 7th October 2011 22:09 GMT By Stephany Nunneley

John Carmack has said the team at id has found the driver issues plaguing RAGE on PC frustrating.

Speaking with Kotaku, creative director Tim Willits agreed with Carmack, stating that when the game was submitted to the “build system,” for testing, the console versions were “solid and bug-free,” but  there were issues on the PC end.

“We have had video drives issues that have caused problems and frustrations with our PC fans,” he said. “Everyone at id Software is very upset by these issues which are mostly out of our control. We are working with both AMD/ATI and Nvidia to help them identify and fix the issues with their drivers.

“We’ve had assurances that these problems are being addressed and new drivers will be available soon.”

Carmack, although censoring himself, called the PC launch issues a “clusterfuck”, stating the team thought driver issues during development were mostly worked out.

“We were quite happy with the performance improvements that we had made on AMD hardware in the months before launch,: he said. We had made significant internal changes to cater to what AMD engineers said would allow the highest performance with their driver and hardware architectures, and we went back and forth with custom extensions and driver versions.

“We knew that all older AMD drivers, and some Nvidia drivers would have problems with the game, but we were running well in-house on all of our test systems. When launch day came around and the wrong driver got released, half of our PC customers got a product that basically didn’t work. The fact that the working driver has incompatibilities with other titles doesn’t help either.

“Issues with older/lower end/exotic setups are to be expected on a PC release, but we were not happy with the experience on what should be prime platforms.”

When asked if this could have been avoided if RAGE’s primary design platform were on PC instead of consoles, as the team at id has noted several times, Carmack reiterated id went the opposite route for a reason.

“You can choose to design a game around the specs of a high-end PC and make console versions that fail to hit the design point, or design around the specs of the consoles and have a high-end PC provide incremental quality improvements,” he said. “We chose the latter.

“We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games. That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version. A high end PC is nearly 10 times as powerful as a console, and we could unquestionably provide a better experience if we chose that as our design point and we were able to expend the same amount of resources on it.

“Nowadays most of the quality of a game comes from the development effort put into it, not the technology it runs on. A game built with a tenth the resources on a platform 10 times as powerful would be an inferior product in almost all cases.”

Yesterday, id updated the Bethblog with download links for AMD and Nvidia drivers, and today, it has updated the page once more with more RAGE-specific updates.

RAGE was released in the UK today.

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39 Comments

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  1. DarkElfa

    Face it Carmack, you sold this game out to the console giants and failed your PC audience.

    #1 3 years ago
  2. deadstoned

    Well at least Mr Carmack gave an accurate description of whats being going on :-/ . I expect hes working diligently on fixing the PC version as he has a very strong legacy with the PC and if he didn’t fix it quick he’d get boo’ed at Quakecon next year lol. So I expect they’re very hard at work fixing it.

    #2 3 years ago
  3. Mineral4r7s

    Carmack just turned to another Moneywhore. As so many people do in this business. The whole world is losing its senses.

    #3 3 years ago
  4. Phoenixblight

    @1

    Didn’t read the article eh? I know it’s just too long.

    @3

    THey are a BUSINESS. Apparently people don’t understand the point to a business. Well here is the Definition: a person, partnership, or corporation engaged in commerce, manufacturing, or a service; profit-seeking enterprise or concern.

    They don’t do this as some type of hobby they do it because they enjoy it and they get paid for it.

    #4 3 years ago
  5. Edo

    #4 Seriously dude….WTF!?Do you work for id or something!?

    #5 3 years ago
  6. Phoenixblight

    @6

    Did I defend them? No I didn’t, I simply stated that they are a commercial business their entire point is to make a profit off their IP. Infact I was so disappointed by this game that I actually returned it. I am not going to get mad at them for putting their focus on the console, that’s where the money is. I am pissed at them for the launch of this game for the PC. They should have anticipated the worst case scenario(GPU Manufacturers not putting out the correct drivers) but they didn’t.

    #6 3 years ago
  7. HauntaVirus

    This shit should have been worked out before launch. Why is this so hard for devs to understand. I understand development is a long process but why release the game unfinished after all the hard work put into it? Delay the motherfucker to hell if you have to, but finish it BEFORE launch!

    #7 3 years ago
  8. Phoenixblight

    @8

    I agree, the PC version should have been delayed until the patch that allows you to customize graphic settings and the correct drivers were out.

    #8 3 years ago
  9. LucYan03

    New driver(Updated on 10/7)

    http://www.bethblog.com/index.php/2011/10/07/playing-rage-on-pc/

    #9 3 years ago
  10. HauntaVirus

    @10
    Amen.

    #10 3 years ago
  11. blackdreamhunk

    @ Phoenixblight

    that is a good way to tank you your fanbase too there is a good reason no buys epic games anymore other than gear of war!

    Last time I checked there is a lot of bankuprt game devs and publishers on consoles. The gaming Industry has pretty much gone down hill with squeals and only fps to make money.

    Oh remember when I said that Id software are pretty much a has been game dev well those reviews relict that statement.

    oh one more thing enjoy your last generation of consoles if there is even going to be any!

    #11 3 years ago
  12. blackdreamhunk

    oh there is a good reason crysis 2 did not sell as good as crysis. There is very few games worth buying these days too as well.

    #12 3 years ago
  13. DarkElfa

    @4, Yes, I read the entire article, did you? I didn’t misinterpret anything or make anything up. Hell, I all I did was put in a nutshell what Carmack said.

    He doesn’t believe the PC is a leading platform and so he developed the game primarily on consoles instead and that is why Rage is as screwed as it is right now on the PC.

    Id invented the FPS and they have ridiculous amounts of experience with the platform. There simply is no excuse for Rage being released as it is, none. It’s insulting to their PC fanbase which built their sorry asses.

    #13 3 years ago
  14. Phoenixblight

    @15

    The engine works. This isn’t exactly all of ID’s fault, like this article states the GPU manufacturers simply put out the wrong drivers. Once you have the drivers most if not all of the issues are fixed. Thats how it has worked for majority. If ID had waited until the drivers were out they wouldn’t be in this position.

    Anyways not going to get in argument about PC vs console its silly when the evidence is there. Consoles are where the money is at and people were expecting ID to somehow make this game the reason to play on PC if you were actually following the articles about the development of the game, Carmack had stated multiple times throughout the development that they were making an engine that works on all platforms and it does once you get the fixes. Like I have said people are expecting the 2nd coming of christ out of this game and all they got is a solid Linear FPS with solid performance and nice looking canyons not so much story, texture inside buildings or caves, and the shoddy lighting.

    #14 3 years ago
  15. DarkElfa

    I’m not saying the engine doesn’t work PB, I’m saying that they didn’t do the testing they needed. This response from Carmack reeks of excuse making.

    As for their cross platform development, it does nothing to excuse this game from the crashing and graphical glitches at work here and if people were expecting the second coming, it’s because ID hyped more than they delivered.

    Granted, the game is pretty and quite fun to play once you get past the glitches, but I beat the game today and I’m not sure I’m interested in going back to it once they fix things.

    #15 3 years ago
  16. GwynbleiddiuM

    Well, these issues can be contained and worked out, so be a bit more patient IMO.

    Note to VG247, I had this issue of ad bots in World of WarCraft and installed BadBoy addon and resolved it long ago, I’d like to think this can also be resolved in VG247 commenting section, there most be a BadBoy of some sort for webs, SAVE this place from them, their numbers are rapidly growing. They’re a BIG bother.

    #16 3 years ago
  17. Erthazus

    Someone have a big boner over this?

    Just turn force VSync in Nvidia or AMD control panel for RAGE and thats it. You are done.

    but for me, i didn’t experienced these issues at all. No screen tearing, no nothing.

    Solid 60 fps. Game looks not bad on max, but it’s not top Notch. I’m a bt dissapointed by it to be honest.

    #17 3 years ago
  18. Droid

    I didn’t have any issues with graphics either using the nvidia bf3 beta driver. I’m also disappointed with it though. It’s a real shame it wasn’t made as an open world game. How reviewers constantly give games like this top marks is beyond me. Too many deals behind the scenes it seems.

    #18 3 years ago
  19. DaMan

    It must be the outdated 1999 year engine, which it’s based on, they won’t fool me.

    One of the mutants reminded me of a soviet zealot from Stalin era, I’m offended so any reviewer who gave this more than 5/10 was payed.

    Still, day one and probably 500 hours.

    And I’m done.

    #19 3 years ago
  20. blackdreamhunk

    @Phoenixblight

    people will stop buying games when games no longer becomes “fun”. where the money last time I checked gaming industry doing a nice noise dive.

    there is more room for bankrupt game dive and more for the gaming to a noise dive too.

    #20 3 years ago
  21. mehdidante

    unacceptable . there are lots of ported game out there witch they run smoothly and fine on pc . assassin’s creed for instance . i guess the company was on low budget after 7 years of production or john or his engine is getting old . (sorry for bad lang :D )

    #21 3 years ago
  22. blackdreamhunk

    I have personally pass on a lot of games I bought a lot console games on stream guess what I fond a lot of them boring.

    starwars republic CE $160 EA
    Guild wars 2 CE $80 Anet
    Mass effect 2 CE $80 EA

    games skipped out on, I am happy that skipped out on these games

    crysis 2
    dragon age 2
    rage
    duke nuken for ever
    desus 3
    etc…… gross console ports

    games on the fence or with thinking about getting

    battlefield 3
    batman arkham city
    Gotham City Impostors
    the secret world

    may pick up on steam cheap like $2 or $10 not going to pay full price it

    LA Noire

    I am more than happy to skip out on a lot of games made from the gaming Industry. frankly I am not missing out on much even fables game dev admits that the gaming Industry has gone down hill.

    “”"”"Peter Molyneux bored with modern games”"”" the must truthful statment ever made by this game devs

    http://www.gamesradar.com/awordfromoursponsors/?zone=pc_xbox360/news&sendMeBackTo=http%3A//www.gamesradar.com/peter-molyneux-bored-with-modern-games-ashamed-of-fable-iii-reviews/

    #22 3 years ago
  23. Sadismek

    @21 Assassin’s Creed, as a whole, is an example of bad port.

    #23 3 years ago
  24. Maximum Payne

    @23 Why is bad port ? not to mention it has really good optimisation

    #24 3 years ago
  25. Edo

    First Assassin’s Creed was a good port the other two…not so much.

    #25 3 years ago
  26. Sadismek

    Yeah, as Edo said, ACII and Brotherhood are bad ports. Try to play Brotherhood at max settings. I don’t know about you guys, but I have a painful headache from all the bloom effects, after 2-3 hours of playing it. Not to mention that I experience some small frame drops, strange lip-sync and other dubious glitches. Things that are not so frequent on the consoles version of the game.

    #26 3 years ago
  27. Gama_888

    CAN I GET A HOO-RAH FOR CONSOLE PLAYERS!!!!! :D :D :D

    #27 3 years ago
  28. Maximum Payne

    @26 Give me a break frame drops on PC but not on consoles ? Lip syncs are bad in AC what ever platform you play.Bloom effect again its on every platform….

    #28 3 years ago
  29. Sadismek

    ^I didn’t have any bloom effect that gave me a headache on medium and low settings, only on high. Frame drops only on high setting, too. So, that means the optimisation and port are bad.

    Aren’t you the guy that said earlier that it has good optimisation and asked why is this a bad port? Now you step on your own saying?

    #29 3 years ago
  30. Maximum Payne

    @29 Yes I said its great port.maybe your PC is not strong enough for high ? When you compere other sandbox game on PC such ass Saint Row,GTA,Guerrilla…. Assassin Creed is brilliant.
    When I could play that game on my old dual core AMD @2.0 ghz and 8600GT on medium settings then I could say its amazing port.
    Only bad things is AC2 DRM which Brotherhood solved it.

    #30 3 years ago
  31. Sadismek

    ^Nah, my PC is fine, I have an AMD Phenom X4 Quad-Core @2.30 ghz and 4GB RAM and it’s working just fine on medium and low, but on high has that annoying bloom effect, that hurts my eyes ’till they’re bleeding. And that’s only on Brotherhood, ACII is okay.

    #31 3 years ago
  32. OwnedWhenStoned

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_culture

    That’s where we are with Gaming right now.

    It doesn’t matter whether it’s console or PC (I have both)

    You are being fucked over and you’re gladly paying for the privilege.

    Rubbish is being released for the attention of rubbish. The days when good games were in the majority are long gone.

    #32 3 years ago
  33. HauntaVirus

    @27

    Almost a nice try…but no.

    #33 3 years ago
  34. LOLshock94

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    #34 3 years ago
  35. blackdreamhunk

    by the way even Atari founder says this will be the last genertion on consoles

    GDC Online 2011: Games guru says there’s no need for another Xbox or PlayStation, Facebook games are “too stupid to live,” and recalls wanting to fire early Atari employee Steve Jobs

    Atari founder on the end of consoles
    http://www.gamespot.com/news/6338994/atari-founder-on-the-end-of-consoles

    #35 3 years ago
  36. Phoenixblight

    Yes because a person from ATARI is a good source of information for video games look at how well they are doing, right? Making that money hand over fist

    http://www.answers.com/topic/atari-inc

    #36 3 years ago
  37. blackdreamhunk

    @36

    there is a lot of bankuprt game devs because of consoles oh and lets not forget Sony and Microsoft was in the ed how long?

    #37 3 years ago
  38. Phoenixblight

    Yes we know the end of the console is coming yada yada yada. Keep that cardboard sign up and speak your craziness.

    #38 3 years ago
  39. blackdreamhunk

    @39

    oh one more thing crysis 1 out sold crysis 2 and how many pc gamers went out of their way to buy crysis ? I was going going to buy the CE but was sold out I am glade I did not buy it after I heard about all the bad reviews and how bad the game was from other pc gamers who had played the lead version.

    #39 3 years ago