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Dead Island’s “Feminist Whore”: The Tip of the Iceberg

Friday, 9th September 2011 06:57 GMT By Brenna Hillier

A bit of legacy code in a build which was never meant to be released has lifted the lid on gaming’s undercurrent of sexism.

Techland and Deep Silver have muffed Dead Island’s launch. Not only did it release in need of a significant day-one patch, somehow an unfinished version of the game was uploaded to Steam, and the patch to fix that wiped player’s saves. What a disaster. It’s a PR nightmare.

Then this happened: trawling through the unfinished build, one curious gamer found a line of code referring to a skill called “Feminist Whore”. And things went nuclear.

Some of you may be wondering why these two words used together have caused such an outrage. You probably get called pretty terrible things when you win an online game, after all.

In short: it’s complicated. Countless books and articles have been written about sexism, feminism and language, and to go in detail into why the term “feminist whore” is so problematic would take thousands of words, cover myriad other topics, and likely bore you to tears.

So throw me a bone here and accept that it is problematic, because we’re already moving on. What makes the appearance of this term in a mainstream game like Dead Island so troubling – even when it was never meant to be seen by the public, even when we very generously assume it was some sort of very poor taste joke – is that it is indicative of a much broader, consequential issue plaguing the entire games industry, to whit: sexism.

Catherine celebrates its sexualisation.

So Sexist
The games industry – alongside other geek cultures like comics, in particular – is riddled with sexism. Sexism hangs off it like ticks off a dog; you might not notice it until you look, but once you do, you’ll be disgusted, and you’ll notice how it’s starting to drain the life from its host.

There are entire sites and journals devoted to discussing the myriad ways sexism manifests, but here’s just one example: female characters in games are almost universally reduced to their sexual capacities. They are sexualised, while male characters are not.

Try to name a prominent female character who isn’t designed around sexual attractiveness. There’s the original FemShep, who like the Resident Evil heroines, has been made over, and – from what I’ve seen so far – the female COGs in Gears of War. Final Fantasy XIII’s Lightning wore an almost practical outfit – although she’s also thin enough to inspire a whole generation of bulimics. Left 4 Dead’s ladies are generally pretty sensible.

And that’s it. I’m out. Who else is there even.

Women in games have massive breasts. They have shining thighs. Their clothes are cut away to show flesh or unrealistically skimpy (have a look at Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor for alternatives to the chain mail bikini). They’re impossibly thin. They share similar facial structure. They’re almost always shown wearing make up, as if women wake up wearing it. They often sport completely impractical hair.

If you start to look at promotional artwork for games you’ll begin to notice some alarming trends. Women are posed with their boobs or bottoms as the focus of attention – often, disturbingly, impossibly twisted to squeeze in both at once. Their poses often fail to show action, falling mainly into passive “come hither” territory.

In 1996, we maybe had some excuse for this nonsense.

There are many excellent examples and explanations of how women are sexualised in games and beyond on the blog Go Make Me A Sandwich, but this examination of World of Warcraft art, part of a series, clearly demonstrates the kind of issues we’re discussing.

Most of these female characters aren’t just prettified – they’re physically impossible. Have a look at Boobs Don’t Work That Way for more precise discussion of the ridiculous depictions we often just accept as normal. Remember these artworks are produced by paid professionals, usually with formal training. They ought to know better.

If you still can’t see it, you may want to check out this gallery of sexualised males and gender-swapped superheroes. If it looks strange and wrong to you, it’s because you are used to seeing males and females treated in vastly different ways, and seeing them in the opposite role is confronting.

Remember when Jill Valentine wore armour?

Sweeping it under the rug
Normally at this point someone is jumping up and down pointing out that men are idealised to the point of ridiculousness in gaming, too. That’s often true – nobody’s going to say Marcus and Dom are normal looking-human beings – but you could hardly say they’re sexualised. This gallery of male characters is extremely light on broken anatomy, uncovered flesh, and grossly exaggerated sexual characteristics – although there’s a lot of perfect hair.

But hey! Most gamers are heterosexual males, right? They want to see boobs and butts!

Even if it were true that most gamers are male – and it’s becoming increasingly obvious that it’s not – we don’t want to encourage that trend. We don’t want to block out half of our potential consumers and their sweet stores of cashmoney.

But more importantly, that attitude is plain insulting to the heterosexual men it claims to speak for. It reinforces the suggestion that females exist solely for the purpose of being looked at, and it reduces the viewer to a collection of impulses to do sexual things to ladies. That’s an unfair reduction of both sides.

Who to blame?
Techland and Deep Silver have reacted with horror to the discovery of the “Feminist Whore” skill, declaiming knowledge, and giving all signs of setting up a witchhunt for the culprit. I don’t think that’s really fair, any more than it’s fair to blame individual men for the existence of sexism. That such a “joke” would be made in a professional context shows that a culture exists to nurture it.

That’s not to say Techland or Deep Silver are to blame. The entire industry is to blame. I don’t just mean producers – developers and publishers – but also our deeply interwoven media (including VG247, when we thoughtlessly post images with boobs front and centre) and consumers (when we vote with our dollars) – of all genders. Together, we foster a culture of sexism that leads to precisely this kind of scandal.

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  1. alterecho

    Exactly the same thing i was pondering since DNF and Mortal Kombat. I wanted to point out this point when they redesigned femShep but i stayed silent to avoid any arguments. Maybe they should hire female game directors or designers.

    #1 3 years ago
  2. DarkElfa

    @2, They’re too busy makin’ sammitches.

    #2 3 years ago
  3. unacomn

    And let’s not forget Bioware, with their patented Ass-Cam technology pioneered in Mass Effect 2 and tested thoroughly on Miranda. I head they loaned that out to Crystal Dynamics for the new Tomb Raider game.

    #3 3 years ago
  4. Patrick Garratt

    The FemShep thing really was pathetic. I admire BioWare greatly, but that was incredibly disappointing. And I’m disappointed in myself for not even realising what was happening until Brenna pointed it out to me. Honestly, the first time I even saw FemShep was when we did the interview on why she’d never been used in ME marketing.

    It’s completely irresponsible to habitually portray women this way. I have a young daughter, and trying to shield her from the notion that all women are tottering princesses in need of a male saviour is ridiculously hard. The games industry seriously needs to grow up.

    #4 3 years ago
  5. Gekidami

    I’m not familiar with this FemShep business, but i do know that Bioware are working on THIS right now. Its pretty obvious what the ‘focal point’ on that is.

    #5 3 years ago
  6. KrazyKraut

    I dont like feminists.But I dont like male folks who always do the “woman-sucks-or-stupid” jokes too. I hate (and wish them a painful dead) all those males which hides behind some stupid phrases from the Qur’an to get a license to torture, beat and treat woman like slaves. But with feminists you can discuss.

    And FeministWhore is not nice and fair…..its very very stupid.

    But yes, you are right. I just watched the new Episode of Qore yesterday, which showed scenes of Neverdead…. yes, tits included.
    NeverDead has this confident female char…but of course with a big neckline, where you see her pink underwear.

    The industry want us to show, that confident woman cant be successful without sex and necklines.

    #6 3 years ago
  7. AbracadaverAK

    Excellent piece and definitely deserving of wider attention. Just a shame that it will likely fall on deaf ears for quite some time in the gaming industry.

    @KrazyKraut Look up feminism and tell me again why you don’t like women who fight for it. I suspect the “feminists” you don’t like are the sort who don’t exist; the sort that misogynists paint at the “extremists” of women’s rights.

    #7 3 years ago
  8. Aimless

    Alyx Vance is one of the only female characters I can think of that isn’t sexualised. She’s attractive, sure, but normally so. (If you value what scraps of respect you have left for humanity, don’t Google for modded versions of her character model as they’re actually horrific.)

    I actually think the trigger for this article is something of a non-issue. Obviously it isn’t an admirable phrase to include, however throwaway its existence — it’s essentially the scribble in the margin of an exercise book that was never meant to be seen — but evidently someone at Techland was aware it wasn’t appropriate and they aren’t native English speakers; it could quite easily be one person’s little joke.

    That aside, I don’t really take issue with any of the points raised. As a heterosexual male I do find a lot of female character designs insulting and exasperating; at least the original Lara’s impractical bust arose from the slip of a mouse rather than a conscious design decision, even if that ultimately stuck.

    At the risk of getting sidetracked, I kind of wonder what effect the availability of internet porn has had on people’s notions of what constitutes ‘sexy’. Whilst checking out Dragon Age mods there were a lot labelled as such, but the term seemed to constitute ‘ridiculously revealing’. Perhaps we’re just talking semantics, but I’ve always considered sexiness to be suggestion and the stoking of one’s imagination, whereas porn tends to be more like a surgically enhanced anatomy lesson.

    #8 3 years ago
  9. KrazyKraut

    @#7
    When Alice Schwarzer looks at me and my girl she would start to discuss.
    We have starting our own small business and we do everything together.
    Now a feminist comes and say: “Woman, you have to do your own thing. You have to be independent.” Most feminits see only that my girl works with me, instead that WE are working TOGETHER. Thats always the same. I really support every woman who fights for her rights, woman are still disadvantaged…worldwide in every Country (even in countries like Germany, USA whatever..). The problem is, that most feminists dont accept others ppl opinion. Thats my problem.

    #9 3 years ago
  10. JimFear-666

    this wasnt supposed to be known.. it was an inside joke by the studio… so what?

    #10 3 years ago
  11. AbracadaverAK

    I started playing on Dead Island shortly after reading this; within 2 minutes I HILARIOUSLY happened across this:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2660324/deadislandgame.png

    Oh, Deep Silver.

    #11 3 years ago
  12. AbracadaverAK

    @10 Did you even read the piece!?

    Also, unless you work there, you don’t know that. But again, that isn’t even what this is about.

    #12 3 years ago
  13. Patrick Garratt

    @5 – Basically, FemShep was included in Mass Effect from the start, but has never been seen in any marketing. It’s always the male Shep. The female Shepard is a powerful, non-sexualised character. When they decided to put her in the marketing, they did a vote on which image to use on the box, and the original FemShep wasn’t included. So the FemShep being used in the marketing art is a “sexy,” tousled redhead, while the original FemShep is included in the game but not seen as part of any promotion.

    They basically bottled it when it came to putting a powerful female character front and centre in a male-targeted action game. I’m going to make the assumption that they didn’t want to take the risk that she wouldn’t appeal to the average man buying the special edition.

    What’s so disappointing about it to me is that BioWare’s probably done more than any other studio in terms of including same-sex relationships, etc, in its games, but when it came down to it, it bowed under pressure and went “make-up girl”. It was weak.

    #13 3 years ago
  14. endgame

    hah! this is a joke right? so women r sexualized. so what? most women out there have been doing this to themselves for years. we (the men) r only reacting to what u (the women) have been showing us for years. we have never made u dress light so don’t throw crap like that on us! you’ve been doing this to yourselves. so what if women in games r hot? what r the developers suppose to do? make them look normal? why? no! sometimes I prefer my women normal and sometimes I prefer them hot just like in real life. and as someone pointed out there r normal women in games. like Alyx for example. also just so u know yes boobs don’t work like that but I have seen so much porn and a few real life women that I can tell u that some women look ok and some look really hot. so no! developers r not doing anything wrong. they r simply copying real life! so to Techland and Deep Silver I say good work guys!

    oh and the men r better than women jokes? well guess what? they r not jokes!! if women would be so awesome there would be some women r better then men jokes as well.

    also to the guys who r agreeing with this: stop ignoring the reality and grow some f**king ballz! u’r pathetic!

    and and now the backlash! give it to me! :))

    #14 3 years ago
  15. manamana

    @5 …..hmmm……..the gun?

    #15 3 years ago
  16. Blerk

    Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be much chance of the games industry growing up until the consumers do. And there doesn’t seem to be any sign of that either.

    #16 3 years ago
  17. Gurdil

    I like your writing and all Brenna but you put a VERY bad example in. You didn’t write about it but, you put a video from Catherine in the article and this game is ABSOLUTELY NOT about over-sexualized female characters. Only one character is that way and the explanation is solid. Two other important characters (Katherine and the barmaid) are female (well, kinda) and they are definitely NOT weak over-sexualized females.
    That said, I think a lot of people are over-reacting on this subject. Characters in video games are made up and yes, they are stereotypes. But it goes for male and female, for black people and white people, for poor people and rich ones. Video games tell a story. So of course everyone is idealized/exaggerated. Question is: are you stupid enough to think that people are really like characters in video games? That’s just like saying people are dumb enough to think all arabian people are terrorists because the enemies are arabian in the latest FPS. Now I’m not saying no one thinks that but that’s really a small number of people.

    To talk about this male/female treatment difference again, yes this is a reality. But do you think we males should feel offended because males are generally portrayed as barely thinking brutes in video games?

    #17 3 years ago
  18. BraveArse

    @ Blerk – My thoughts exactly, there’s a huge swathe of comments on EG about this and very few of them give me hope.

    Totally agree with you Brenna. My partner is a gamer too, and it’s almost embarrassing at times playing some of the games with her that have female characters. And like Pat, I have a young daughter, and trying to find her positive role models in gaming is nigh on impossible.

    The problem is at gamer’s feet imo. You just have to look at how the gaming community ( on the internet at least ) acts as a whole, when some new tech comes along to broaden the market. They instinctively lash out, like a problematic toddler. Anything that welcomes people ( be it new tech or a new game ) other than 13 to 30 year old males to gaming is derided.

    They crap all over comments threads and forums almost instinctively, making it nigh on impossible that anyone beyond that demographic will ever join the conversation.

    People often say we’re just at the early hollywood stages of gaming making, e.g. the Charlie Chaplin era – I’d argue we’re at the exploitation era now with no signs of ever leaving it.

    #18 3 years ago
  19. jnms

    If someone has to be intelligent and educated in order to understand why something is offensive…then chances are it isn’t actually offensive.

    There are far too many poly-parrot ideas here, perpetuated by educated sheep.

    #19 3 years ago
  20. Zurtech

    I’m confused why this article was written in the first place.

    Is the games industry sexist? Yes, as is any industry.
    Is it only sexist to women? No, why haven’t you gone into detail about the unrealistic portrayal of men in the games industry too?

    I am a woman too, and yes the sexism in the games industry annoys me, but it’s not aimed only at women. The only male character I can think of off the top of my head, that’s not over sexed or OTT in build is Nathan Drake.

    I’m very surprised to hear the backlash against the redesigns of Fem Shep, I mean lets face it, none are overly sexed, none are made up to be like bimbos. So what’s the problem. Can tell you she’s had FAR more resources put into her several designs than the male Sheperd taken from a male model. That’s about as lazy as you can get. Why was male Shep posted on all the marketing campaigns? To help sell the game to the white male 18-35 age group. Prior to ME3, you know that all character design for Shepard was purely on armour and not face, after all this being an RPG, and a Bioware one at that, they intend the player to make their own character.

    As for the “arse cams”, that’s got bog all to do with women’s arse’s, and it’s about showing an alternate camera angle to show the character talking the other party of the conversation listening. Generally the camera angle is shot from a perspective at hip height to indicate that the one talkin to the focus point as the angle would be shown to “empower” that character thus re-iterating that they are the one in the limelight. If you think this angle is only to show women’s arse’s, then you’ve obviously never spoken to the likes of Garrus or Jacob. This is present in any of Bioware’s games, and you can tell it’s just a stock camera angle, as it’s already been in several videos released and leaked for TOR. Although in 90% of those we get to see some bloke in tight trousers.

    Generally in games men are just as over-sexed as women, with rippling muscles and abs and over 7 foot tall with rugged good looks. This is just the male version of how women are portrayed. This sort of stereotype is just as un-realistic as overly large breasts and arse. Alhto saying that I’ve known several women with large breasts who have not had any kind of surgery I might add.

    Speaking as an artist, the reason why males are generally overly muscular and women overly “curvey” is just purely because 99% are designed. When creating a male or female character you generally take the aspects of that person or in this case the features that stand out. So for a man you would generally make them tall with a big chest and strong arms. With wide it would be generally be slender with wide hips and larger breasts. this has nothing to do with sexism, it’s about making them instantly recognizable from a distance as being male or female. It’s about exaggerating features that stand out. Even if the game goes for a realistic art style. There are a few cases where this is not true, like Heavy Rain for example, but that’ because that is literally a fully acted game with real life actors converted into a polygonal form.

    Finally to the point in question, the “Feminist Whore” Skill name. Personally I’m not offended by this. I think it’s suits the skill, which gives the character a damage bonus towards men, which would indicate that said character doesn’t like men and is probably sexist towards them. All it implies that she she has such a hatred towards men that she is a slave to her own views in life. Does that offend me? Again no, if anything the fuss over it to start with is more offensive as this is just another political correctness gone wrong. Personally I find it more discriminative to have, say, and RPG that that has a create a character option but no female option at all.

    I just believe in equality, if something goes for one thing it should apply equally to another. As my initial point in my post, this article about sexism, is in it’s own way sexist by ignoring the sexism towards men too.

    #20 3 years ago
  21. Freek

    This is entirely one sided. Games as a medium don’t have much depth in storytelling, so characters in general are verry simpel and idealised.
    This is not just female characters, this happens to male characters just as much.

    Female characters are often sexy and dumb, male characters are often buff and dumb. To just dump this on sexism is massivly short sighted.
    Or look at Dante, extremly sexualised male character, always walking with his shirt half off strutting his stuff, so what?

    And there’s even more interesting female characters then just the few you named. Pretty much the entire advetnure genre is filled with interesting female protagonist. Here’s some more, Eternal Darkness, Heavy Rain, Beyond Good and Evil also spring to mind, Miranda, from Mass Effect. Yes, she is also verry sexy but that is also part of her storyline and point of conflict she contstantly suffers from.
    Why do these games and this genre feature more interesting characters? Because they are story driven.

    That is the most important thing. The moment you putt story first character depth begins to matter. Most games focus on gameplay and as such feature simpel stereotypes for both MALE AND FEMALE characters.

    Wich brings me to a more interesting point: just because someone is atractive doesn’t make them dumb or simplistic as a character!
    Media in general will always feature atractive people, games are no different, no matter wether they portray male or female characters.
    Penny Arcde putt that across in a funny way: http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/08/03

    #21 3 years ago
  22. viralshag

    @20, Zurtech, While I appreciate Brenna’s article your post was a much more enjoyable and balanced read. Great post and thanks.

    #22 3 years ago
  23. Aimless

    @19 Offensiveness isn’t an objective quality. It doesn’t even necessarily rely on intent; people accidently offend others all the time.

    @20 Whilst I agree with your post for the most part, I feel you’re downplaying the divide between the way male and female characters are treated differently. For instance it’s not uncommon for players to be encouraged to perv on females in games, and the less said about unlockable/downloadable costumes the better.

    In terms of actual character I think both sexes are presented equally — there’s both great and terrible examples of each — but presentation wise I think there’s a definite disparity. Not always, but often.

    #23 3 years ago
  24. jnms

    @23 Exactly my point Aimless.

    The problem usually isn’t with the one ‘causing offense’ but with the one ‘taking offense’. The exception to that rule is extreme cases.

    #24 3 years ago
  25. Freek

    Oh, and on male super heroes not being sexualised. Seen the recent Marvel movies? Thor and Captain America, plenty of eye candy shots for the ladies of the main heroes not wearing much at all.
    Thor espcially, with one scene in wich Chris Hemsworth is pretty much just standing around almost naked for no particular reason.
    “Oops, I just got out of the shower…”

    And that’s fine, nothing wrong with giving the female audiance something nice to look at aswell.

    #25 3 years ago
  26. Aimless

    @24 I don’t really agree. Naturally things differ depending on context, but generally I see it as a shared responsibility.

    Think of it a bit like designing a ladder. If someone falls off it clearly you weren’t directly to blame for that, but you still have a responsibility to put out something reasonably safe. Neither party can afford to be oblivious.

    Any form of communication is a process of give and take, you can’t shift all the responsibility to the one interpreting what you have to say.

    #26 3 years ago
  27. viralshag

    I’m not sure why a lot of people are focusing this on the games industry either, when so many industries focus on beauty and attractiveness, and that goes for both male and females.

    Movies, music, magazines, games, advertising… Attractiveness sells and people, men and women, often relate a lot more to it.

    One small minor example I can think of in gaming which proved otherwise was in Fable where female melee focused characters often looked bulky and “male-like” and while this might be considered a more “realistic” portrayal of a female warrior, a lot of female players complained that their character was ugly and man-like…

    #27 3 years ago
  28. Freek

    @27 Wich might also point to something interesting: that outside of gaming journalism, female gamers don’t find the way women are portrayed in games as particularly offensive.
    Looking at the cosplay scene with an overwelming amount of female gamers/geeks choosing to play as a sexy character would also make it seem that they don’t really see it as a problem.

    #28 3 years ago
  29. Aimless

    @27 Because this is a videogame site?

    Other media certainly have their own problems, but that doesn’t negate those of the industry this article is about. That would be akin to excusing your looting because other people were doing it, to give a recent real-world example.

    #29 3 years ago
  30. viralshag

    @28, I wonder if a lot of female gamers just accept the overly slim and curvy female figures the same way most guys accept their characters to be the tall, slim, ripped, attractive type. It doesn’t bother me that buffed fella on screen is only half as good looking as pretty much most of the VG247 male community, me included. (Check the forum post to see that I’m totally lying here ;) )

    Whenever I create a character in a game, I always make male characters that tend to be what I consider attractive because quite frankly, I don’t want my in-game personalisation of “me” to be some ugly ass dude… Unless I’m doing it for some specific RP element.

    #30 3 years ago
  31. viralshag

    @29, Is there a problem to be excused is what I’m getting at… It would seem not everyone links the portrayal of woman as negative.

    #31 3 years ago
  32. Freek

    Also, how can we have an article wich asks about interesting non overly sexualised females and forget Elena from Uncharted and Alex from Half Life 2?

    #32 3 years ago
  33. tenthousandgothsonacid

    “What’s wrong with being sexy ?”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xF5TeHf5QQ

    #33 3 years ago
  34. Yoshi

    Firstly I do agree but you need to remember where this all came from and that’s partly women themselves. Women started something that they can’t finish while men have carried it on for years and years while some women get offended and others continue to make things worse. Just look at music videos these days for a clear example of this. Nearly all women artists nowadays show themselves in a sexual way which only further advances the male mind and makes males believe that it must be alright to continue. If every single women stopped showing themselves in a sexual way in the news/games/music/movie industries etc then we might just see some change. BUT that isn’t going to happen. In this day and age there is absolutely no chance of this happening, why? Because women won’t be willing to take the digs to further advance our species. (Now that sounds slightly feminist I know but men ain’t going to do anything because they’re already allowed ((somewhat)) to do all this feminist stuff) It’s women who need to take the first step but as I said, I doubt they will. Women, why do you wear makeup? Because you want to look good, now that’s the first main problem. In media makeup is shown to be the norm, however just think about a thousand years ago… do you think people living in caves had makeup? NO, they dealt with who they are. Why do men not wear makeup? Because it’s not seen as the norm. So the first step is to throw the whole makeup is the norm out the window and to face the facts women and men that women don’t always have those perfect curves and might have a slight pale face. Secondly, clothing. Now women if you don’t want to be seen in a feminist sexual way… then don’t buy this crap that makes you look that way, if you don’t buy it, they won’t make it.

    Thirdly you need to choose, women = sexy or women = power. Because lets face it, men don’t = sexy, men = power. Which unfortunately women is in your genes to run to a man with power as your mind knows that someone with power is more likely to have money to then provide for you and other spawn (babies)

    Finally just to sum up because this is getting to be a much longer comment than I previously imagined. Women… if you want change you can’t just say it, you can’t just blame men (not that I’m saying it’s only men) because those aren’t going to help. You need to actually DO SOMETHING. Black Americans did something and got their rights. So maybe it’s time to do something instead of just talking about it because as I said above, as long as you continue to go down the path you go, men will continue to believe that women can be portrayed the way they are right now.

    #34 3 years ago
  35. Gekidami

    @32
    There are several. I’m playing R3 right now i cant say any of the females in that are ‘sexed up’. The game i played before that was Deus Ex, i dont think any of them were specifically sexualized in that either. Nothing purposely sexy about Forty-Seven in SOCOM 4, i guess Nix from inFamous 2 could fall into that category but not Kuo and especially not Trish. Lucy Stillman from Assassins Creed? Not really.

    There are plenty of examples, it really depends on what you call ‘sexualized’, if a character being slim and wearing make-up has you rolling your eyes then i’m sorry but you’re being a bit silly. Especially when all of the male characters have the chiseled bodies of Greek Gods in those same games.

    #35 3 years ago
  36. Yoshi

    I would edit my 34 comment but I ran out of time.
    @20 I completely agree, you said it perfectly and from a women’s view that means women will actually listen to your view so I give you thanks.

    #36 3 years ago
  37. jnms

    @26 – But we are talking about the oxymoron that is political correctness here. Many people find ‘political correctness’ offensive in itself.

    #37 3 years ago
  38. OrbitMonkey

    I personally think the main problem here is game devs who still think their main demographic are adolescent males & over-compensate in trying to appeal to this perceived majority.

    #38 3 years ago
  39. DaMan

    Personally, I miss the days when people actually cared about, erm playing the games and journos didn’t write inane essays exploiting every misstep or leak devs make. Ironically we’ve had much less chance of a game selling purely on sex appeal then, and lunatics mixing entertainment and reality weren’t so prominent.

    #39 3 years ago
  40. Cygnar

    I agree with the thrust of the article. Sexism is indefensible, but denigrating stereotypes are not limited to depictions of women. I find it ironic that the section dismissing claims that men are stereotyped is titled “Sweeping it under the rug.” It is true that men are not sexualized in games like women are, but that does not mean that they are not stereotyped. I might respond to this section of the article by noting that women may be oversexualized, but they aren’t constantly shown as being cold-hearted and unable to speak good English like Russians are often depicted. Many also are not given the same stereotypical traits of people of African descent (Cole from Gears of War stands out as a particularly flagrant offender). Nor are women constantly depicted as ‘roid raging’ body builders with impossible musculature, like men are generally depicted in modern action games.

    Are these good arguments for why women are not stereotyped? No. All these observations show is that lots of people are depicted in line with inaccurate or unrealistic stereotypes, and there are plenty of stereotypes to go around–not all of which neatly reduce to ‘being depicted as sex objects.’ Stereotypes against men and minorities do not ‘steal the spotlight’ from those against women, nor do they lessen their repugnance–they are different stereotypes, yes, but they still deserve no less attention because they are no less wrong.

    No group of people deserves to have stereotypes against them ‘swept under the rug.’ All racist, sexist, and otherwise outmoded stereotypes ought to be rejected with the same vigor as Hillier demands for her group of choice.

    #40 3 years ago
  41. The_Red

    Thanks for the article. While I still don’t think Feminist Whore is that big of a deal, the general points that this article touches are really serious and in many cases worrying BUT I don’t think every form of sexualised female character is being sexist or wrong.

    Bayonetta is one of the most sexualized characters ever created in any form of art and yet by the end of the game, I found myself respecting the character as a woman and a deep / real character (I know, it screams unreal but somehow, she is up there with Alyx and Jade for me. Blasphemy!?). Devs showed a lot of respect for their female character, even in the midst sexualising madness in her design, animations, dialogue and other things.

    #41 3 years ago
  42. beemoh

    #18 @BraveArse >You just have to look at how the gaming community ( on the internet at least ) acts as a whole, when some new tech comes along to broaden the market. They instinctively lash out, like a problematic toddler. Anything that welcomes people ( be it new tech or a new game ) other than 13 to 30 year old males to gaming is derided.

    They crap all over comments threads and forums almost instinctively, making it nigh on impossible that anyone beyond that demographic will ever join the conversation.

    Woah, woah- you mean people for whom a thing isn’t designed for don’t enjoy such a thing? Wow. Didn’t see that coming.

    Okay, flippancy aside, why is there this big upset every time the core isn’t particularly fond of a casual title? Surely if the point of much of the ‘expended market’ titles is that they appeal to people games haven’t appealed to in the past, then you’re going to fail to appeal to the people games have appealed to in the past? Why is the act of merely saying that they don’t enjoy a game that simply isn’t for them always portrayed as being threatened or people actively wanting to keep gaming to themselves?

    Even when at its worst, it’s hardly been something that other artforms are free from- why is not liking Farmville so terrible and pulling all of gaming down, but that time there was that campaign to buy that RATM song to stop the X-Factor winner from getting to number one gets to be widely considered A Good Thing, and reported quite positively in mainstream news? How is it any different to the British public’s collective sneer that met the announcement of Big Brother being resurrected on a different channel (Or, for that matter, the similar response to any series of the show on its original channel?)

    In regards to ‘joining the conversation’, Why isn’t the non-core market’s distaste for core games equally elitist? Why does everyone have to like everything everywhere? Why can’t different things be for different people in different places?

    #42 3 years ago
  43. DaMan

    Sorry for going slightly off-topic, but number 41…. Bayonetta wasn’t even sexualized to begin with, I still can’t believe some find her sexually appealing, that’s not to say she looks bad just that the message went right over some people’s heads.. The idea was that she’s a ‘celestial being’ or whatever you call that, just playing around. The whole game was laughing at stereotypes and japs’ own games, e.g. jrpgs.

    #43 3 years ago
  44. G1GAHURTZ

    Bitches is ho’s.

    #44 3 years ago
  45. RandomTiger

    Alex from half life 2 and Faith from Mirrors Edge. Still, point taken.

    #45 3 years ago
  46. JokersUav

    Come on people! Why are we so over sensitive. Women wanted to be able to go to work to be equal and they fought for that, and i respect them. But now they are angry they have to work and miss there children growing up. They are back to wanting to stay home, why because of sexism, some inequality? No because they are what they are created for. Just as men were. In all of living creatures each sex has a role, not because they were forced but because it is whats natural or them. Reason why most gamers and game designers are men they like to kill things, blow thing up they are more violent. You can make the over the rainbow looking for the sun game, but ill tell you that game wont sell. Why do you think barbies world for Xbox was so valuable, because it was rare. No one bought it. Go back to cave man days before the media and the people magazines they were out killing animals while the women took care of the children and picked berries. If women want to be hunters so be it, but most of them wont feel comfortable in that atmosphere. The games are designed this way because they sell this way because it gives a sense of make believe to the human psychology. Maybe one day some women will create some games geared towards women. All the power to them, but I know growing up for most boys they wanted to be the knight saving the princess and not the other way around. So let it go.

    #46 3 years ago
  47. Mike

    Men’s physiques are also, and have always been, unrealistically represented in video games. #justsaying

    #47 3 years ago
  48. Ireland Michael

    Although I completely agree with the argument of how back the female gender is represented in video games, there’s one line that really stuck out for me…

    “[Women] are sexualised, while male characters are not.”

    Are you kidding me?!

    First you need to equate what masculine sexuality is exactly. Roles of power, a lack of restraint, sometimes dominance. And physical strength is also a big part of that. It all boils down to male “power” most of the time.

    Now lets takes a look at the male cast of most games. They’re big, hulking brutes with giant arms and abs, six packs bigger than concrete blocks and chins that could break through concrete.

    But nobody ever complains about that, and how horribly misrepresentative it is of the male gender. Why? How is that any different to the way woman are unrealistically portrayed, Brenna? I’m honestly interested in hearing your answer.

    I think the problem exists on both sides, and unless the game in intentionally over-the-top or aesthetically tongue-in-cheek, it rarely fits in place.

    Their adventures are off the wall and crazy, but Nathan Drake and Elena Fisher are two of the most natural looking characters I’ve ever seen in a video game, and it adds a lot of strength of an already great franchise.

    It wouldn’t be quite the same if Nathan had a neck the size of a tree trunk or Elena’s chest was busting out of her work-shirt.

    #48 3 years ago
  49. DaMan

    #49, I think I’ve seen quite a natural looking male character in a certain game, it was called Max Payne.

    #49 3 years ago
  50. absolutezero

    Why are all male characters so good looking? What do developers have against ugly men?

    I have less connection to Adam Jenson because hes really, really, really, ridiculously good looking. I require, nah DEMAND more ugly male main characters in games.

    Also you can find sexism, bigotry and racism in any single thing if you look hard enough.

    Actually seeing Bioware being mentioned and noting that most of the blame seems to be being dumped at the feet of male developers for rampant Earth shaking levels of horrible horrible sexism I would like to bring up the senior writer of Dragon Age 2. One that said this :

    >Q: What is your least favorite thing about working in the industry?

    >A: Playing the games. This is probably a terrible thing to admit, but it has definitely been the single most difficult thing for me. I came into the job out of a love of writing, not a love of playing games… I’m really terrible at so many things which most games use incessantly — I have awful hand-eye coordination, I don’t like tactics, I don’t like fighting, I don’t like keeping track of inventory, and I can’t read a game map to save my life.

    Miss Helper also claimed inspiration from Twilight and said “Giggle squeee” in a promotional video about DA2. So then we have a lead writer on a video game, which is a role with a fair amount of clought. So DA2 must be a pretty Sex equal game right?

    #50 3 years ago
  51. YoungZer0

    Extremely one-sided article to be honest. I think the problem is not limited to games, films or books. It’s a social problem. We as humans have degraded ourselves to a consumer society. To have the maximum amount of success, we’ll use the cheapest tricks possible.

    Do yourself a favor, go watch a trailer for some Hollywood blockbuster. Fast & Furious for example. Now, did you see – even for a few seconds – tits and ass in it? Why? Because it stimulates our primal instincts to fuck. We’ll use Sex in commercial for products that have nothing to do with sex. Just to stimulate these primal instincts.

    Look at the Cover of a magazine. GQ for example. GQ cover mostly feature tits and ass, but sometimes famous male actors, in stylish but not-over-styled clothes. Why does this work? Because we like to think we are this person, or can become this person. You’ll encounter this phenomenon mostly in Female Magazines. Cosmopolitan for example. An attractive woman, young, looking hip, independent, self-confident. The readers of those mags are quite the opposite, and most of the articles are about how to control men with sex, or be how to be a better fuck … to better control men with sex.

    I work at an advertising agency and one of our clients is a woman magazine. Occasionally it would feature a contest, where you’d get a price, mostly jewelery. The number of people participating in these contests exploded after we designed a new layout where the price would use the maximum space of the page.

    Because we’re consumers. Greed, Power and Sex is all what drives us. Films, books and games that don’t use those cheap tricks actually take a huge risk. Since most gamers are still male, most of the games we play will feature over-sexualized woman and macho-man who get the job done.

    I recommend the book “Living Dolls: The Return of Sexism” by Natasha Walter, which goes into many other aspects of sexism. Not only towards female but also towards male and why the feminism of today is all but successful. The slut-walk that recently took place in some major cities is one of things that come to my mind when i think about unsuccessful feminism.

    Why? Because it – again – used primal instincts to get our attention. Sure we now know that a police chief said something incredible stupid about woman. But did we take those woman serious? Hardly.

    If we don’t stop to use these cheap tricks in order to secure success we – as a society – will fail and this shit will continue.

    But anyway, that’s it from me. For now.

    @13: “Basically, FemShep was included in Mass Effect from the start, but has never been seen in any marketing”

    I think you’re actually wrong here. If you look up old ME videos, you’ll see that all of the videos show Male Shepard and not one showed Female Shepard. Just look at the model of Female Shepard, it looks like someone set down for 5 min. to use the Character Creator from the game and called it a day. Male Shepard has a unique Face and unique Textures.

    Now Bioware actually sat down to make a proper Female Shepard and … people are complaining? Why? Because she doesn’t look like a train-wreck now? Say what you want about Male Shepard, but his design greatly combines handsome model and tough soldier.

    @14: Excuse me. Adults are talking.

    @20: Actually one of the old ME videos i saw showed a Male Shepard that look QUITE different from the one we got now. Other then that, i really like your comment. But as Aimless already pointed out, you have to admit that female character take a jerk-off-role in some games. I mean just look at Lost Planet 2. WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY THINKING?!

    There is only so many body armor you can take away, females in this game have no bodyarmor at all. Not even mentioning the ridiculous breast physics.

    @21: Depends on the Art-Direction. A good Art-Director/Character-Designer would sit down and take his time with the design, even with side-characters.

    @43: This is the reason why i dislike this game and will never bother to play the full version. Just because it’s “ironic” doesn’t make it okay. The problem – as you can see – is that people actually do find her hot.

    @45: Fuck Faith, okay? Just because she actually had clothes on doesn’t make her a good female character.

    @47: Wow, an actual Neanderthal man, able to write in English! Amazing! Seriously though, your comment makes me angry and sad at the same time. Just stop talking.

    #51 3 years ago
  52. Ireland Michael

    @50 The game has to be good as well. Just sayin’.

    And… honestly… appearing indefinitely constipated isn’t what I’d personally call “natural” looking.

    Anyway, I never said it didn’t exist. I simply said it wasn’t common. I’m not sure what Max Payne of all games has to do with any of this.

    @52 “We as humans have degraded ourselves to a consumer society.”

    We, as humans, have not “degraded ourselves to a consumer society”. This isn’t about people becoming stupider. People have always been this way, as far back in history as you can imagine.

    This is simply marketers becoming more aware of what the lowest common denominator wants to see.

    Simply minded people have always been easily influenced by violence and sex. There’s a reason why prostitution is called the “world’s oldest profession”.

    #52 3 years ago
  53. absolutezero

    Also finding it genuienly amusing that the original Jill Valentine was used as a good example when as a reward for finishing the game you can play dress up with her in a special room full of dressing rooms.

    http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100520155426/residentevil/images/b/b4/REJillSpecialOutfit.png

    Saucy.

    #53 3 years ago
  54. DaMan

    #53 The game was good, unlike Uncharted. Just saying.

    Sorry, I disagree. then again I’m not into males, especially Ricky Martin.

    And really, constipated? I ‘d say he looked fine for those circumstances. Makes me question if you even know what the story was about.

    I mentioned it because it was one of the few titles actually looking both stylish and different in terms of protagonists for that time. With such a distsinct example from so long ago, I find it odd you mention something as mundane and recent. But anyway.

    #52 I do find her design ‘hot’ as well, but I’m not certain we’re talking about the same thing. I also find things you find okay not okay. We can stop here ;)

    #54 3 years ago
  55. LOLshock94

    i find the most sexist people on the planet for gaming has to be the Japanese

    #55 3 years ago
  56. absolutezero

    You’ve never heard the Max Payne constipation jokes? Really?

    Even the guy whose face that is knows about the jokes, he mentions them in the Alan Wake making of video.

    #56 3 years ago
  57. DaMan

    Err, not the same and not in English. We ‘ve joked quite a lot about his appearance back in the days though.

    I don’t like AW, so I haven’t seen that video.

    #57 3 years ago
  58. Ireland Michael

    Gotta argue against the use of Lara Croft as part of the “problem” as well.

    In the past, she was undoubtedly part of the problem, I can’t deny that. Her physique used to be abnormally beyond natural proportions. But since her revision back in the mid 00′s, her physique has been seriously toned down to be a lot more realistic… even more so in the upcoming game.

    Lara Croft used to be the worst of the industry, the embarrassing barbie doll of the industry, but the character as it exists now is a much better image for “the tough and sexy woman” than most games, and should be championed for that, not criticised.

    @55 I never found Max Payne’s style to be particularly stylish when it came out. It *tried* to be stylish, and I thought it ended up tacky as hell. I also thought the gameplay was absolutely atrocious.

    #58 3 years ago
  59. JokersUav

    @#52 young zero. Why do you think it sells? Do you think its because people feel better about themselves degrading women? I don’t believe that. Men are visual, they like “tits and ass” women don’t understand this because they are not visual or as visual. This appeals, and sells because it separates reality from fantasy. A over weight nerdy kid can pretend he is getting the super model. Women don’t go after the super ripped guys they go after the ones that make the most money or have the best outlook on the future. Stability instead of looks. Men and Women want different things, this is how they are built, created, wired whatever beliefs you have. Women want the nice dressed, intelligent successful guy or someone that treats them good. That’s how sales and marketing work, you find what appeals to people and what there needs are and you offer that to them for a price. Like I said before men want to save the princess and the princess wants to be saved. Not the other way around unless you drive around with a rainbow on the back of your car then, No offense but I cant relate.

    #59 3 years ago
  60. YoungZer0

    “Why do you think it sells? Do you think its because people feel better about themselves degrading women?” What. The. Fuck.

    Man, i’m not even going to comment on the rest. I might not have been clear enough with my last comment. But you’re the last person i want to talk about such things.

    The problem is that people like you seem to think that they KNOW how people work. The difference between you and other people is that those other people actually dare to do some research instead of writing such embarrassing, offensively stupid bullshit.

    Go back into your cave.

    #60 3 years ago
  61. Ireland Michael

    @61 One of you is directly insulting people. One of you isn’t. I think you know which is which.

    You’re being needlessly antagonistic with people simply because they disagree with your opinion.

    If you didn’t want to discuss it with him, why are you even responding to him? That is how discussing works. You’re not making a very good case for “not wanting to talk about such things” with him if you’re replying to his posts.

    #61 3 years ago
  62. DaMan

    #59, It was neither pretentious nor took itself completely seriously, so it really wasn’t ‘tacky’.

    The graphics were above any of the muddy looking games released at the same period, even though Max’ face wasn’t.

    It was also obviously rather deep and fun as a tps, because it involved both traditional elements which were done very well and bullet time, which it pioneered, it was actually the next step in third person shooter genre.

    #62 3 years ago
  63. YoungZer0

    @53: Never said that more consume equals more stupidity. It’s just that since – as you said – more marketers become aware of these cheap tactics, more things fall victim of these tactics. It is cheap, but damn effective.

    @62: If his opinion equals that of a caveman, i’m going to call it. He’s basing his opinion on things he thinks are facts, when they are not. It’s like throwing oil into fire. It’s one of the reasons why sexism is so persistent.

    Ignorance is no excuse in law.

    Figuring out what drives us and what influences us is very hard to pull off. Because of that most studies about the subject are bullshit. The biggest pile is usually the one that gets quoted the most.

    But whatever. Point taken. Stopping now.

    #63 3 years ago
  64. JokersUav

    Why do you think it sells? Do you think its because people feel better about themselves degrading women? – Meaning of course this isn’t accurate. But its absurd to think this way. So far the only condescending comments or insults have come from you. Your entitled to your opinion. But I think insulting people, because they merely state something that is researched and has been studying for hundreds of years is just ignorant.

    #64 3 years ago
  65. JokersUav

    According to your theory, we should be sold things that don’t really appeal to us. Just so that it doesn’t hurt one persons feelings or offend one person. This is why we have a free market. If enough people shared your opinion the product wouldn’t be successful. Why don’t we go back to women wearing full dresses and hiding all skin. Get rid of the low cut shirts and better fitting jeans. We can introduce uniforms and have every be required to wear the same thing so no one feels ugly. Is that your idea of freedom. Cause Ill bet you (if you are in fact female) and your friends buy those clothes and wear those types of things. I bet you wear make up and perfume all traditional things, that women enjoy. There is a psychology behind all of it that you wont get from your liberal magazine. Try picking up a history book and find out why women started wearing lip stick.

    #65 3 years ago
  66. YoungZer0

    @65:

    Ugh, i’m probably going to regret this, but i guess i owe you a better discussion, instead of just insulting you. It’s not really your fault.

    “Why do you think it sells? Do you think its because people feel better about themselves degrading women?”

    Degrading women? I don’t even know what you’re talking about! Where did i say this?! All this research and studies you talk about, show them to me. Either do that or read the book i recommended “Living Dolls: The Return of Sexism” by Natasha Walter. It goes into details to why you shouldn’t trust these so called studies and research. Especially those who’re made once and then never repeated.

    @66: “According to your theory, we should be sold things that don’t really appeal to us. Just so that it doesn’t hurt one persons feelings or offend one person.”

    Theory? What Theory? If more people would buy stuff that’s actually more than just stimulation of their primal instincts we would live in a better society. You better believe that! It’s not that we buy this stuff because it’s actually good for us, we buy it because our brain gets tricked into thinking its good for us. That’s marketing, i know that because it’s part of my job to know that.

    A gaming example: If you play Call of Duty, you earn xp, get better weapons, hear fat sound when you level up. All this is done to stimulate your brain. You don’t get better, the game doesn’t get better, your brain just tells you it does because the developers made sure it would stimulate the right parts of your brain.

    The same goes for sex in ads, films, books or videogames.

    “Why don’t we go back to women wearing full dresses and hiding all skin. Get rid of the low cut shirts and better fitting jeans. We can introduce uniforms and have every be required to wear the same thing so no one feels ugly.”

    Erm, what’s going on? Are you changing the subject? I’m not stealing your rights to wear what you want to wear and i’m not interested in a communism either, if that’s where you want to go with this.

    “Is that your idea of freedom. Cause Ill bet you (if you are in fact female) and your friends buy those clothes and wear those types of things.”

    If i’m in fact female? Where did i say i’m female? You’re jumping to extreme conclusions here, mate. I’m male.

    “I bet you wear make up and perfume all traditional things, that women enjoy.”

    Lol.

    “There is a psychology behind all of it that you wont get from your liberal magazine.”

    Lol.

    “Try picking up a history book and find out why women started wearing lip stick.”

    Do you really wanna go there?

    #66 3 years ago
  67. JokersUav

    This comes down to the age old, nature or nurture argument. Sure they stimulate the brain, its called sense of achievement. People like to achieve goals. EX level up, points, weapons. They strive to be better than the next player. Another goal. With out these goals were running mindlessly through a jungle for no reason.Thats the multi player portion. Games like Halo, Mass Effect & Dragon age great fantasy stories. We play the games for a good story and allow our minds to role play. It allows us to be the hero, the villain, push the limits and see what happens next. Same holds true for movies. Its called entertainment. Getting back to the original assumption about games being sexist, Women choose to be strippers and prostitutes, Why? Are they forced to? They choose to because once again sex sells, they know it and make money from it. By taking the stance you are taking you are insulting most people in saying they have no mind of there own. I will give you a portion of people that try to fit images, such as the barbie doll look or models which are no where near natural looking. And as far as the lip stick, yes there is a real reasoning behind it like all make up. Its way more primitive then you are leading people to believe.

    #67 3 years ago
  68. JokersUav

    Clearly, I am not gonna change your mind, and have no desire to. We will let this one die out for now.

    #68 3 years ago
  69. freedoms_stain

    @68, Don’t be such a fucking fool, prostitution is hardly a “career” many would pursue as a first option. It’s a desperation option, a last resort, don’t talk about it as if it’s a casual choice “oh, hey, I need a job, I’ll just have sex for money, lol”.

    Saying someone does something as a last resort or out of desperation doesn’t make them mindless, in most cases it probably makes them hopeless.

    #69 3 years ago
  70. Christopher Jack

    I reckon everybody’s overreacting. Yes this is sexist but why should anyone give a damn? Everyone in the developed world should know that all humans are born equal & those who discriminate are just ignorant trash who doesn’t deserve our attention to being with.

    I’d be a hypocrite if I said that I’ve never discriminated, we all have, but I’m being specific about those who actually believe what they say, this was clearly a tasteless placeholder name for a skill-nothing more, so there’s no reason to make a deal about it, it’s not physically effecting anybody.

    To put it simply, there’s much more offensive words & phrases but that’s all they are, words & phrases, it’s just easier for everybody to be the bigger person & not let it get to you.

    #70 3 years ago
  71. Phoenixblight

    @70

    I know its surprising but there are actual people that don’t mind that profession hell in Neveada you can actually be a professional call girl because its supported and regulated with health care just like any profession only they have to go get an inspection every month. And the same goes for porn too, there are people that want to do that too.

    Different strokes for different folks.

    #71 3 years ago
  72. OrbitMonkey

    Is this perk had been called “Ball Buster”, we wouldn’t be talking about this.

    #72 3 years ago
  73. Yoshi

    @73, Agreed. That’s more like the real problem, when it comes to females everyone screams and shouts but if it’s a male they’re just told to “man up and get some balls”

    #73 3 years ago
  74. OrbitMonkey

    @74, stop bitching & grow a pair ;)

    #74 3 years ago
  75. Yoshi

    @75 But but…. *runs of screaming* :P

    #75 3 years ago
  76. JokersUav

    @72 Well said. Perhaps some people in here don’t really know what goes on out there. I have gone to school with people that graduated with a degree, but realized they could make more money doing these types of professions and did it. This is because women don’t look at these things the same as men. Don’t take it from me, listen to handfuls of psychology cds, books, studies. SO #70 really the fool is the one that goes through life with a closed mind, and insults people for there opinions. Some day when you have a career and have to listen to and accept peoples opinions to be more proficient at your job will you have a been understanding of what is being talked about.

    #76 3 years ago
  77. Stephany Nunneley

    @70 & 72 – Right. But then you have the women who get into either prostitution/porn/stripping who use the excuse that it is “empowering”.

    If it is “empowering” to them to have men toss money at them because they are naked and reduce them to slobbering all over like a neanderthal or to show the world they are great at giving fellatio on film and using their sexual parts for money – well, then they have a deluded sense of what “empowerment” really is. They need to tell the truth, they either got into it because a) they were desperate for money; or b) they harbor massive self worth issues.

    I get so sick of these women I see on TV interviewed, being asked why they do this, and misuse the work empowerment. Just tell the truth: I have an ace body/I can’t get a job in my desired field/I don’t have the skills… so I strip/hook/porn myself out for a living because it makes money.

    I am not including those doing it to feed a drug addiction, as that is another subject all together – but I just never understood how it is “empowering” to show your bits all over the place or have sex with strangers for money. You are not “empowering” yourself, nor are you “controlling” the man you are doing this with/for. They can easily get such titillation from someone/something else.

    Sorry for the mini-rant, but women fought for the right to own land, vote and get equal pay for equal services in the workplace – not to provide a false sense of empowerment to a woman who chooses to hide behind feminism for her decision to work in such an industry.

    #77 3 years ago
  78. kiyoe

    Like sexism in video games is a suprising fact… sexism is everywhere these days. Just go outside and you can’t walk 10feet without approaching a n add with a ridicilously good looking man/woman, sometimes half naked. turn on the tv and its the same thing. so why acting like this is a new phenomenon. its been in video games since they went 3d. nowadays any company can afford a good engine for mediocre games, which makes everything look better and more realistic. so it might appear that its more present than b4. but sexism has always been around in every media.

    #78 3 years ago
  79. Christopher Jack

    Well there’s no reason why a woman can’t sleep around & fight against sexual discrimination at the same time, I mean having different genitalia & using it are two different subjects right? I mean, I don’t see how a loose woman can’t fight sexual discrimination just because they like sex, seems irrelevant.

    #79 3 years ago
  80. Stephany Nunneley

    There is a difference between sleeping around for personal enjoyment (I personally don’t see an issue with that :D) and doing it for living. Most don’t do it for a living because it is “pleasurable” – it’s for money. You can separate it easily.

    #80 3 years ago
  81. Christopher Jack

    @81, Maybe they enjoy making people smile, guess we’ll never truly know :P
    All I know is, I’m not going to debate the reasons why strippers/prostitutes etc do what they do, you can only assume unless you have personal experience & even then, it’s only one person’s perspective.

    #81 3 years ago
  82. DaMan

    I’d say there’s quite a difference between adult actress/stripper and a prostitute too..

    #82 3 years ago
  83. Stephany Nunneley

    So, how is there a difference between a porn star and a prostitute? They both get paid to have sex – only difference is that one has an audience, and the other one only has an audience when you pay extra. :p

    #83 3 years ago
  84. DaMan

    Sorry, I find that logic ridiculous.

    Adult actress is comparable to cascadeur (I don’t know how you guys call it, those circus athletes, or stunt doubles in movies).. comparing that to prostitute is like putting a carpenter/builder and a wrestler alongside.. they both make money by using their physical abilities.

    Adult actors don’t have sex with people to pleasure them. They’re just playing a role in a fantasy spectacle.

    #84 3 years ago
  85. Stephany Nunneley

    @83 Sorry you didn’t see the joke in that, apparently. Next time I will add extra smileys to denote it. :D :D (see?)

    #85 3 years ago
  86. DaMan

    There’s some truth in every joke. I got used to that.

    #86 3 years ago