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Rage runs faster on 360 than PS3 [Update]

Friday, 31st July 2009 08:31 GMT By Patrick Garratt

rage22

id’s John Carmack’s told Edge that the Xbox 360 and PC versions of Rage currently have higher framerates than the PS3 version.

Apparently the Xbox 360 SKU – which uses id’s new Tech 5 engine – matches the 60fps framerate of the PC version, while PS3 runs at just “20-30fps”.

More on CVG.

Update: Edge has put up a story containing more quotes from the mag. Basically, the PS3 version’s lagging behind, but it’ll all be OK in the end. Phew.

“Everything is designed as a 60 hertz game. We expect this to be 60 hertz on every supported platform,” Carmack said.

“The work remaining is getting it locked so there’s never a dropped frame or a tear, but we’re confident that we’re going to get that.”

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65 Comments

  1. Robo_1

    LOL:

    “The PS3 lags a little bit behind in terms of getting the performance out of it,” John Carmack told Edge. “The rasteriser is just a little bit slower – no two ways about that.

    John, 20fps vs 60fps is not a little slower, it’s flat out unacceptable. If that really is the best they can manage on PS3, then they should have confined their tech to 360 and PC.

    Given that Crytek’s Cryengine runs identically across both platforms, I’d say this news has pretty much sunk any ambitions iD had for tech 5.

    I do love the way it’s just casually mentioned by him though, as if it’s no big thing. I doubt very much I’ll be bothering with Rage now.

    #1 5 years ago
  2. woodyrulesok

    I’m guessing the 360 was the lead console on this and the ps3 version is effectively a sloppy port?

    #2 5 years ago
  3. Blerk

    This thread will not go well. Jaffa cake, anyone? :-)

    That seems like a huge difference in performance. I’m surprised they even admitted to it.

    #3 5 years ago
  4. cachucha

    “Given that Crytek’s Cryengine runs identically across both platforms, I’d say this news has pretty much sunk any ambitions iD had for tech 5.”

    on what do you base that statement? games yet to be shown and developers will only talk good stuff about their engines wouldnt they, so props to carmack for keep on bashing the ps3 and 360 left and right or admitting that his own game is going to suck on consoles.

    #4 5 years ago
  5. rainer

    Strange news, they were claiming 60fps across all platforms and now 30fps for the PS3. It certainly didn’t sound like a sloppy port they hired one of Naughty Dogs lead engineers to do the PS3 engine for iD Tech 5 (he’s no longer with them – moved on). That 60fps claim may come back to bite them in the ass if someone digs it up.

    JC did say this too
    “The RSX is slower than what we have in the 360. The CPU is about the same, but the 360 makes it easier to split things off, and that’s what a lot of the work has been, splitting it all into jobs on the PS3,” he said.”

    Not really a shock, [RSX] GeForce 7 GPU’s weren’t exactly the greatest against anything from ATI.

    #5 5 years ago
  6. fear_itself

    Hey Blerk
    “This thread will not go well. Jaffa cake, anyone? :-)”

    LOL, I think I’ll camp out here for a bit and watch teh carnage unfold.

    #6 5 years ago
  7. Robo_1

    @cachucha

    The Cryengine stuff comes from developer quotes:

    http://www.develop-online.net/news/32077/No-clear-difference-between-360-and-PS3-versions-of-Crysis-2-says-Crytek

    Of course we’ll have to wait and see what real world examples throw up, but all the demos they’ve shown have displayed identically across both platforms.

    Did Carmack ever make the same claim about 360 and PS3?

    #7 5 years ago
  8. Blerk

    I’m sure they originally said the PS3 version of Tech 5 could ‘possibly give them a bit more’ or something along those lines.

    In Crytek’s Edge interview the other month they said that there were performance differences between the PS3 and 360 versions of the engine but one platform was better at some things whereas another was better at some other things so in theory it should balance out. We all know what usually happens to theories, though – wait and see seems to be the best policy.

    #8 5 years ago
  9. crippledhooba

    That is really unacceptable, they might as well not release it on the PS3 if thats the best they can do.

    #9 5 years ago
  10. G1GAHURTZ

    I’m sure that everybody knows by now that all they need to do is lower the resolution of the PS3 version to about 800×600 and make it a bit fuzy-blury.

    #10 5 years ago
  11. Gadzooks!

    Oooh, this wasnt really on my radar as I’ve never been a huge ID fan apart from original Doom/Doom2 but a 60fps framerate can make a huge difference to a game.

    Now officially interested, as long as it isnt 60 silky smooth frames of baboon arse per second, and as long as the 60fps doesnt come at the expense of horrific tearing.

    As for the PS3 comment, I’m very surprised. I’d be less shocked if they said it was a rock-solid 30fps compared to a slightly teary 60fps, but saying it’s 20-30fps.. well it just sounds like they did a poor job on the port.

    #11 5 years ago
  12. freedoms_stain

    Honestly, why bother with a ps3 version at all if you’re not willing or able to put the work in to produce an acceptable quality version?

    Ps3 games tend to be a little bit more expensive too – this one better be budget price or all hell…

    #12 5 years ago
  13. dirigiblebill

    Game’s out in 2010. Plenty of time to engineer a solution – fingers crossed.

    #13 5 years ago
  14. NiceFellow

    There is no ‘port’ as such – so far as I know.

    id is designing Tech 5 to be multi-platform. However, of course, while Carmack is an amazing engine designer he is also hugely familiar with PC and similar architectures.

    To me this sounds like an admission that the current status of Tech 5 is that it is running fine on PC and 360 but requires further work for PS3.

    Carmack has always been open in his comments, and factual, so I don’t see any issue with the admission (although I bet the id marketing and PR guys wish he wasn’t so damn open technically).

    Given the clear positioning id gave for Tech 5, clearly this isn’t good enough yet, and they’re going to have to put more effort into PS3 code and optimization to get it to where it needs to be.

    I do think they should perhaps seek further input from Sony regarding PS3 architecture and techniques, if only to speed their familiarization with the platform.

    As for comments on PS3 being better, I think Carmack noted that BR was more suited for their titles as the whole game would fit on 1 disk vs requiring multiple DVDs. I think he also stated that textures might as a result be a little superior on PS3 – but I’m sure it was only a ‘might’.

    Pity that console fanboys with no technical knowledge are going to wrangle all over this when I think it’s a pretty clear statement and pretty understandable (if a little disappointing) if you know id background and history.

    But with Unreal engine seeming to be fairly stable on PS3 now, and Crytek about to bring an engine to PS3/360 as well, id do need to solve the issues on PS3, get the code optimized specifically for its architecture, and get the frame rate where it should be if they don’t want to miss their own goals for the engine.

    #14 5 years ago
  15. Mike

    Didn’t he say something like teh Boo Rayz pwnz teh DVDz last week?

    #15 5 years ago
  16. Robo_1

    “I do think they should perhaps seek further input from Sony regarding PS3 architecture and techniques, if only to speed their familiarization with the platform.”

    They did actually hire a top guy from Naughty Dog to get their engine up to speed, but as I understand it, he’s no longer with them.

    The best theory I’ve read, is that tech 5 is heavily based around harnessing the power of the graphics card, which is where PS3 falls down some, and given the fundamental way tech 5 works, it’s arguable if they can use the extra grunt of Cell to do some of the lifting.

    That’s fair enough of course, but if you’re going to build a multi platform engine for PC and current consoles, then this isn’t the way to do it. 360 owners get saddled with a multidisc game, and PS3 gets a compromised frame rate. To be honest, the whole tech seems a generation too early.

    #16 5 years ago
  17. Blerk

    The whole project is obviously just a BDH-flavoured “consoles are teh suck, PC ROOOLZ!” exercise! :-D

    #17 5 years ago
  18. Patrick Garratt

    Updated.

    #18 5 years ago
  19. Hunam

    If carmack says he can do it, I believe him. That man builds rockets in his spare time. He knows shit.

    #19 5 years ago
  20. G1GAHURTZ

    Like I said…

    Lower the resolution

    Make it blury.

    Insta-60fps!

    #20 5 years ago
  21. Robo_1

    Quincunx for the loooooose.

    Still, good to read that. Some horribly selective quoting from C&VG there though!

    #21 5 years ago
  22. Hunam

    You’ve gotta wonder why devs use QAA, it’s terrible, I’d rather just have the jaggies, unless it’s a quick fix to hide scaling artefacts.

    #22 5 years ago
  23. NiceFellow

    ^^ Robo_1

    That was a smart move, pity he left. Carmack is a coding genius in my book, but it doesn’t mean it won’t take time to understand PS3 enough to get the design right.

    If I was id I’d find someone else who is deeply grounded in PS3 architecture or see if they can get some Sony assist – didn’t Epic get direct Sony assistance to get Unreal engine working properly (or at least much better than it had been) for Unreal Tournament 3 on PS3 and for PS3 in general?

    #23 5 years ago
  24. Hunam

    In all fairness, there is two SKU’s using Direct X so I’d wager that they would be ahead as they are A) Familiar ground and B) The main sales focus. The game isn’t even a 2009 game, so it still has at least 6 months easy in the oven.

    Basically, chill out fanboys, he’ll deliver it for you :)

    #24 5 years ago
  25. Psychotext

    Yeah, I’m inclined to believe they’ll sort this, even if they have to drop the visuals a bit. 60fps seems very important to id.

    #25 5 years ago
  26. NiceFellow

    ^^
    Hunam

    Am I correct in remembering that, ironically, Carmack used to state he preferred OpenGL to DirectX? Or am I remembering wrong.

    Agree that is a factor in why you’d expect them to get the tech ready on PC/360 first.

    #26 5 years ago
  27. Psychotext

    Yeah, he was always an OpenGL evangelist.

    #27 5 years ago
  28. Hunam

    Yeah, he is all about the OpenGL, but the PC and 360 are pretty heavily DX based these days.

    I think Tech 4/5 are hybrid OpenGL/Direct X engines anyway, but my point being that with the core id crowd being PC based and the core shooter crowd in the US being Xbox based, those would have the most development so far. PS3 is OpenGL though isn’t it?

    #28 5 years ago
  29. theevilaires

    don’t start anything G1ga

    #29 5 years ago
  30. Artheval_Pe

    The PS3 has always been very different from other platforms because Sony designed it that way in order to suck the developpers R&D budgets so that the PC and other consoles ports would be bad. Turned out it worked the other way around.

    John, 20fps vs 60fps is not a little slower, it’s flat out unacceptable. If that really is the best they can manage on PS3, then they should have confined their tech to 360 and PC.
    First, he said that it’s the current state of things and that they were going to get to 60fps. He already said to Game Informer a few weeks ago that the PS3 was a bit lagging behind and that they were going to get to 60fps

    By the way, they should have confined their game to the PC as playing a FPS with a pad is like playing chess with your elbows while being drunk, but they must make money and right now, the people who buy games are the console players.

    #30 5 years ago
  31. Hunam

    Actually, doesn’t OpenGL on PC pretty much go through DX API’s anyway?

    #31 5 years ago
  32. theevilaires

    Artheval_Pe said: By the way, they should have confined their game to the PC as playing a FPS with a pad is like playing chess with your elbows while being drunk, but they must make money and right now, the people who buy games are the console players.

    lol how is that true? just because you suck doesn’t make console FPS bad.

    #32 5 years ago
  33. G1GAHURTZ

    Well said TEA!

    [EDIT @29: Me? I ain't starting anything... honest!]

    #33 5 years ago
  34. Hunam

    Certainly M+KB is better for shooters, but by sheer brute force the pad has become acceptable for shooters as designers have mostly figured out how to work the game properly for them.

    I say mostly.

    /glares at Killzone

    #34 5 years ago
  35. Phoenixblight

    You know I never seen so many PC fan boys til I came here.

    @30

    Did you not read the entire article Carmack says he will have it fixed. Make a comment like that and not read the entire thing for shame

    #35 5 years ago
  36. theevilaires

    most people only read the headline Phoenix

    #36 5 years ago
  37. theevilaires

    lol ok g1ga I also subscribed to you yesterday on youtube. I believe I’m your very first. Now what do i win :P

    #37 5 years ago
  38. OrphanageExplosion

    Given that Crytek’s Cryengine runs identically across both platforms, I’d say this news has pretty much sunk any ambitions iD had for tech 5.

    Based on the actual video released at GDC, it clearly doesn’t.

    #38 5 years ago
  39. Hunam

    Im pretty sure Crytek also said the PS3 is behind with them too.

    #39 5 years ago
  40. Hunam

    Phoenix: We’re not all bad you know!

    On the other hand, you PS3 fanboys are all ways making yourselves heard :P

    (just a jibe, you seem like a decent fellow)

    #40 5 years ago
  41. Phoenixblight

    Not a fan boy I own all three systems I play games to just play games. All three systems have their pros and cons, I just don’t find a point in having a banner for a system.
    All companies are just there to make profits as long as Developers continue to make great games they have my loyalty but as far as the platform companies I don’t swear loyalty to any of them, they all have been making horrible decisions one way or another….

    #41 5 years ago
  42. theevilaires

    I’m sorry Hunam but even before the PS3 was released 360 fanboys have done everything in their power to shoot down anything PS3 positive. That includes a lot of stuff. Out of all the fanboys the xbox ones are the worst. Have you been to a game stop where a xbox fanboy refused to sell PS3′s to customers because he didn’t want the PS3 catching up to the 360. I have and its just fucking not acceptable that people go to those measures. It’s a piece of plastic FFS.

    #42 5 years ago
  43. G1GAHURTZ

    Yeah, I saw that yesterday TEA.

    Errr… you win… uhhh…

    You win an honorary place in my 360 clan! Hehe!

    #43 5 years ago
  44. Psychotext

    “It’s a piece of plastic FFS”

    There’s probably some irony in you posting that. :D

    #44 5 years ago
  45. G1GAHURTZ

    PS3 has chrome.

    #45 5 years ago
  46. Artheval_Pe

    lol how is that true? just because you suck doesn’t make console FPS bad.
    I’ve seen a lot of people play games on the consoles, I have been playing games on other people’s consoles. And clearly it’s not the same thing.

    When you see a gameplay video of a FPS, you can tell immediatly if it’s being played on a console or on a PC because of the differences in the way someone play.

    Consoles FPS are considerably slower than PC FPS because of the limitations of an analog stick as a targeting interface. Try playing Counter Strike, Quake III, Unreal Tournament or ArmA II with a controller and you’ll see what I mean.

    Obviously, a lot of people are fine with that, but for anyone who knows well FPS, it’s obvious that the way FPS are played on the consoles is pretty poor. It’s the same thing as with strategy games, except for the fact that the console crowd being the biggest market, most people have become used to that.

    You know I never seen so many PC fan boys til I came here.
    If you understand french, just check this out : http://www.wefrag.com/forums/nofrag

    #46 5 years ago
  47. Gadzooks!

    “It’s a piece of plastic FFS.”

    It’s not the plastic, silicon, steel cages or gold connectors I have a problem with. It’s being lied to, patronised, lied to, let down, lied to, patronised, and most of all, lied to, patronised and let down.

    It’s like the decline of Metallica all over again. Equal measures of heartbreak and rage (no pun intended). Either way, they are both dead to me.

    #47 5 years ago
  48. Phoenixblight

    No I don’t speak french and I know where to go to see a group of fan boys I don’t need to do such thing its waste of time to see one sided views

    #48 5 years ago
  49. Artheval_Pe

    I’d like to point out that one sided views are pretty much the norm these days. A lot of people who gave excellent marks to Halo 3 actually know very little about FPS as they didn’t play Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Quake 3, System Shock, and pretty much all the games that founded then defined that genre. I’d like to see broader views on that matter, and unfortunatly, I can’t find them on most of the big websites.

    I know almost nothing about J-RPGs, but I don’t come out to say that The Last Remnant is one of the best J-RPG of all time. Fighting games, racing games, sport games and J-RPGs work great on the consoles, but I’m sorry : Most console FPS are pretty poor, and there’s a good reason why nobody tried cross-platform FPS between consoles and PC, beyond the fact that it’s a technical nightmare.

    #49 5 years ago
  50. Psychotext

    On a similar note… JRPG reviews in the West are a complete and utter joke. Always have been, always will be.

    #50 5 years ago
  51. Phoenixblight

    “Most console FPS are pretty poor”

    So says the PC biased person…

    Any console fan boys want to say otherwise….

    #51 5 years ago
  52. DrDamn

    @Artheval_Pe
    “there’s a good reason why nobody tried cross-platform FPS between consoles and PC”

    Shadowrun.

    #52 5 years ago
  53. crippledhooba

    The article didn’t originally say it would be fixed, thats why us fanboys were going crazy.

    #53 5 years ago
  54. theevilaires

    Its what us console gamers grew up with Artheval_Pe. I suck using a keyboard and mouse playing games even if its the sims :P I’m just so use to consoles that I’ve adapted to playing any genre with a console controller at peak superior performance. If my skills were matched up against a superior key board and mouse FPS equivalent and I lost just about every game say 10 out of 10 then I would say PC controls are the best for that genre but as it stands I think a standard console controller feels better.

    #54 5 years ago
  55. Psychotext

    I’m really glad I’m not affected with this PC elitism affliction. Halo was my first console FPS… and you know what? I enjoyed it just as much as any PC FPS I’d played (and I’d pretty much played them all going all the way back to Wolfenstein).

    A good game is a good game, no matter the platform.

    #55 5 years ago
  56. DrDamn

    The relatively level playing field of a console FPS is also a big thing. Everyone is getting the same frame rate and using the same tools to play. No one has hacked the game or tweaked the settings to gain an advantage.

    In our old office Quake 2 games one guy changed his settings so everyone appeared bright white against a plain and dark background – he didn’t consider it cheating obviously.

    #56 5 years ago
  57. cachucha

    “360 owners get saddled with a multidisc game, and PS3 gets a compromised frame rate.”

    And in the end the universe tends to unfold as it should..

    “Actually, doesn’t OpenGL on PC pretty much go through DX API’s anyway?”

    No, its it own API, thats why is crossplatform(used almost in every console, even on the freaking iphone)

    On other note, im pretty sure they will have the game running on 60fps(also could expect graphic differences between the 360 and ps3, not to mention pc which is obvious :p), id is always evolving their engines, so maybe it was a risky move programming one game for console where the engine is heavily based on pc experiences.

    And yes id tech is based on Opengl, they wont let MS win so easily.

    #57 5 years ago
  58. G1GAHURTZ

    Errmmm…

    What’s all this crap about PC FPS’s being a level above console ones??

    Utter rubbish.

    Sorry, but I’ve been playing both PC and console FPS’s for a good few years now, and I can tell you that console FPS’s have overtaken PC in more ways than one.

    I own CoD4 on both PC and 360, and I play the both of them online and the PC isn’t significantly more fun to play than the 360 version by any means.

    All this crap about using a mouse/keyboard being some sort of l337 weapon is utter nonsense for the simple fact that it’s all relative.

    If you play on PC, you play against other people with the same setup as you. If you play on console, it’s the same. Everyone (apart from hackers) is on a level playing field, so the good gamer learns to adapt to the controls in front of him and beats the oposition.

    The whiney, whinging player moans because he/she can’t figure out that you have to play in a slightly different way, so they start crying when they can’t turn like they can with mouse control.

    If it was joypads v’s mouse/keyboard, it would be a different story, but that’s not the case.

    In any case, any real FPS player knows that the art of winning is based on timing, movement, knowledge of the map, knowledge of spawn points, areas of cover and the correct choice of setup/weapon.

    Sure, if you can only run and gun, and your game is based on running around in the open, shooting people quicker than they can shoot you, then turning speed is going to be an issue.

    If you’re a good FPS player, and realise that everyone using a joypad is in the exact same boat as you, it isn’t.

    #58 5 years ago
  59. theevilaires

    Go get em G1ga :P

    #59 5 years ago
  60. G1GAHURTZ

    Pow, pow, pow!

    /shadow boxes.

    #60 5 years ago
  61. MushroomStamp

    Amen Brotha !

    #61 5 years ago
  62. Galactic_Barret

    Is this id’s first current-gen game? If so, I can understand the difficulties of making the PS3 version; Every 3rd party developer has had problems programming on the machine on their first, even second or third, outing. I don’t know much about John Carmack, and I don’t expect anything close to 1st or 2nd party games, but if he is a great as everyone believes he is, I’ll take his word that he will make the PS3 version of RAGE the best he can with what he has to work with.

    #62 5 years ago
  63. fearmonkey

    I agree with Psyhco, and mostly with Giga.
    I have quite a few friends who are mostly PC gamers and they whine consistantly when they attempt to play Halo2, Halo3, UT3, COD4, COD5, etc. A few are PC trackball users, and the others are Mouse users.
    They hate the controller as they arent instantly attuned to them, and since they think they have a better chance at being number one wiht PC controls, they whine or refuse to even play it.
    I explained to them that I was heavy Doom – Heretic player and when Quake came out, i sucked at it. I took me awhile, but I worked at it and got good at it. Same with consoles.
    The first time I played Halo multiplayer was at a party against two young brothers that wiped out anybody in the room. All they did was play aginst each other after school, and no one could touch them. Eventually I beat them, but it took some investment.

    Now I play RPG’s more than FPS games, and not so much into the multiplayer deathmatch anymore.I still play dm but nowhere near what I used to.

    And if you’ve been touched by my story, please send cash to…………..

    #63 5 years ago
  64. Tonka

    OMG, the PS3 really is shit, isn’t it?

    #64 5 years ago
  65. Psychotext

    You’re slipping Tonka. That’s a seriously poor response time.

    #65 5 years ago

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