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Thief: as one door closes another opens

Wednesday, 9th October 2013 14:03 GMT By Stace Harman

The last time Stace Harman visited Square Enix to see Thief he had an issue with its doors; after a more recent hands-on session he has a different axe to grind.

Thief

Thief is in development by Eidos Montreal, the studio responsible for 2011’s Deus Ex: Human Revolution and the multiplayer component of this year’s Tomb Raider reboot. It’s being published by parent company Square Enix.

Garrett’s back-story and motivations were explored in this five-minute dev diary.

Rumours of Thief’s “troubled development” were dismissed as “a little bit harsh” by former Eidos Montreal boss, Stephane D’Astous.

Last month, Dave spoke to Eidos Montreal to find out what drives this new, rebooted Garrett and how it feels to have no friends.

Thief producer Stephane Roy has been talking about the advantages offered by Xbox One and PS4.

It may come as a relief to hear that I’m not here to talk about doors.

Happily, the issue of doors has been addressed and, for the most part, fixed. Garrett now opens the door by using his hand instead of an invisible force field. He can also spy through the keyhole to assess the scene beyond. We can all be happy about that, right? I don’t have to write about doors, you don’t have to read about doors and Square Enix and Eidos Montreal don’t have to wonder what’s up with this weird guy and doors. So, doors are off the agenda; excellent.

There are, however, one or two things about the AI that require attention.

I should start by saying that context is invaluable commodity when it comes to managing expectations. Had I known back in April that Thief is first and foremost a current-gen project I would have had different expectations (although the door thing would still have bothered me).

Now, thanks to a frank chat with Eidos Montreal producer Joe Khoury, I have a better understanding of what to expect come February 2014. This enlightenment came about during a discussion of the different levels of awareness of Thief’s AI, in which I asked whether the extra grunt of PS4, Xbox One and PC might be employed to enhance the AI routines instead of just making a prettier world.

“For us, instead of looking at what we can push on next gen we wanted to push as hard as we could on current gen,” Khoury clarifies. “But here’s the thing, in other areas in terms of loading, streaming, displays of particles, levels of detail…it’s visual and that’s where we’ll see the biggest gains.”

In an ideal world, the PC, current-gen and next-gen versions of Thief – and every multi-gen release, for that matter – would be handled by distinct teams that could best leverage the advantages of each platform. However, that would be massively resource intensive and, in most cases, prohibitively expensive. Understanding Eidos’ focus, I now approach Thief as a title that comes at the end of this generation rather than one that’s intended to usher in the next.

That being the case, the AI is unlikely to represent an evolutionary leap over what we have now, but will nonetheless require buffing to a fine sheen over the remaining months of development time. Khoury assures me that the project has reached the “feature-lock” stage and so now the team are all about progress and optimisation.

This knowledge provides context for the two hours in which I explored Thief’s dark corners and so while there are currently several niggling issues I’m encouraged by the notion that four months of hard work will be reflected in the quality of the final build.

Artificially Intelligent

The AI awareness system follows the tried and tested formula of starting at a default state that elevates to suspicious and then fully alert. This progression is marked by an eye meter above a character’s head that fills up when they spot something suspicious; like a master thief skulking about in the shadows. Garrett is a wanted man, so it’s at this point that they’ll start to come snooping about and if you’re unable to evade detection they’ll go into full alert mode, which results in them calling for help and giving chase.

”Often, the level of polish doesn’t matter to the wider success of a project but here it feels more important. The success of Thief as a concept is based on small margins and in a game where you can expect to spend a lot of time studying the AI, how that AI behaves in any given situation is key.”

For the most part, this works as expected and it’s enjoyable to toy with the guards through a combination of deception and misdirection using classic Thief staples like the noisemaker and water arrows. However, as Khoury concedes, there’s further optimisation to be done in this area and so it’s unsurprising that during a two hour hands-on there are a few moments when the AI behaves in a less than intelligent manner.

While I’m confident that many of these will be resolved through play-testing and polishing, there does seem to be at least one scenario in which it’s possible to exploit the AI based on the way the world is constructed. Entering a building via a window triggers an animation that seems to render Garrett invisible to the AI – or else time stops – and so he cannot be spotted for these few seconds. As many of the outside and inside areas are separated by loading screens, and as Garrett’s going to be utilising an awful lot of windows, this could cause some unpleasant consistency problems.

An exception to this potential problem is found in the structure of the side quests. The one I played through involved a separate area of the city that, certainly in this demo build, seemed to exist purely for the purpose of this optional objective. Here, the whole area was pre-loaded, including both interiors and exteriors, which meant there was no loading when entering a building and the AI was persistent. It was also interesting to note that I was issued several challenge objectives specific to this side quest, such as stealing all the loot in the area and remaining undetected throughout.

How Eidos Montreal deals with the challenge of AI out in the wider city, where it has less control over what the player might do at any given time and which of the many buildings they might choose to enter, will be an important factor in determining how satisfying Thief feels to play.

Often, the level of polish doesn’t matter to the wider success of a project but here it feels more important. The success of Thief as a concept is based on small margins and in a game where you can expect to spend a lot of time studying the AI, how that AI behaves in any given situation is key.

On a positive note, Deus Ex: Human Revolution proved that Eidos Montreal it’s entirely capable of delivering a satisfying stealth experience that incorporates player behaviour and robust AI. Therefore, if the overall quality is present in Thief it will be easier to forgive a few minor missteps by the city watch.

There’s a lot to be hopeful of for Garrett’s return but as any master thief knows, critical assessment and careful deliberation remain necessary in order to ascertain that what we have in front of us is the genuine article and not a shiny, hollow forgery.

Thief is set for release from February 25 on PC, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360 and Xbox One

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25 Comments

  1. Pytox

    not sure about this one

    #1 11 months ago
  2. TheWulf

    It’s nice that they fixed the doors. Now if only they could fix the setting, Garrett’s appearance and character, his backstory, and all of the incorrect and contradictory world and lore elements.

    See, this is another instance of why are they calling this [old game name]?! If this had been named, say, Prowler: The Swindle, and it would have been better for it. But since it’s Thief I expect some continuation of that setting’s uniqueness. Instead, I get a washed out Dishonored rip-off.

    That’s a hard pill to swallow. I miss my Garrett, who was a far, far more original and brilliantly written character than this. But I could have accepted it as a passable homage if it wasn’t called Thief, and the lead character wasn’t called Garrett.

    I don’t understand why mainstream developers keep shooting themselves in the foot like this, as they did with The Bureau: XCOM.

    #2 11 months ago
  3. tokman

    Must have the same problem as the doors in ‘Clive Barker’s Undying’….SCHTUCK!!!

    #3 11 months ago
  4. Stace Harman

    @2 – Changing a certain amount of the background detail and deliberately making different stylistic choices is common for a reboot, otherwise it’s just a straight sequel or even a remake. We’ve seen the same thing with Tomb Raider and had Eidos Montreal stuck with the “Thief 4″ moniker they would have had major consistency issues.

    For sure, some reboots and updates work while others don’t. The Bureau is a good example of one that didn’t but then its XCOM sister-title, Enemy Unknown, is excellent. Similarly, Deus Ex: HR is a great example of a modern take on a classic franchise (also created by Eidos-M).

    It’s worth remembering that Dishonored got a bit confused if you went full-on stealth/pacifist, whereas Thief is designed to accommodate that style.

    It won’t please everyone but it could still go either way in terms of working as a quality reboot, so long as the remaining four months are put to good use.

    #4 11 months ago
  5. YoungZer0

    Well, I’m sold. Can’t wait for the release. Love the art-direction and the gameplay really looks slick.

    @2: “I miss my Garrett, who was a far, far more original and brilliantly written character than this.”

    Ah, yes, I too miss the depth they developed in three games. It’s like this 3 minute trailer isn’t even trying. A trailer will never be able to tell you the depth of a character. It’s just way too short for that. You know this already, stop the senseless hating.

    I’ll never understand people who get so freaking attached to a label. It’s just a fucking name. The character is still there. So’s the game. Play them if this one doesn’t suit you. You want a sequel for a game that came out in the 90′s with the same mechanics. Everything new and different is WRONG.

    That’s just a dumb and immature attitude.

    #5 11 months ago
  6. fearmonkey

    @3 – I would love a reboot or redo of Undying, it was a great game.

    Say what you will about the game but the design looks excellent graphically. I am still sad that Garrett isn’t really Garrett anymore though.

    #6 11 months ago
  7. SplatteredHouse

    @6 I would love to see a reboot or sequel for Jericho. If only they could have landed the gameplay better for that. Anyway. Thief…hm. Pause. That’s what I have, my reaction to seeing this.

    This Thief appears to be brazen. He’s moving around irrespective of shadow, and cover. Plain as day, so to speak. Some of those cutscenes (cutscenes, in Thief!) look bad. To the tune of, I’ll just skip this crap and get to the game bad. Why can’t I just have a mission briefing, and begin? Garrett, master thief is reduced to picking scraps from a small-time fence! I like the appearance of the texture of the world. Its surfaces. I wonder how they sound.

    “…that Dishonored got a bit confused if you went full-on stealth/pacifist” I’d appreciate an explanation there, not yet having played Dishonored (though there’s a high likelihood I’ll get the new GOTY edition.) It’s just that my belief, and the impression that was given, was that you would be able to opt not to run around like a china shop bull and the game would cater for and accept that.

    FYI: The Dark Mod is now standalone (hitting 2.0 means that its been refitted -http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/10/09/the-dark-mod-gets-standalone-release-thief-inspired-fps-now-playable-without-doom-3/- as well as no longer requiring Doom 3 to run.)
    It’s a free download, and can be seen in action, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pFeaBDNmR4

    #7 11 months ago
  8. YoungZer0

    Oh for fucks sake, what is it with you people? You see one fucking trailer and all you do is bitch and moan about THE ACTUAL GAME. The one you have NOT SEEN nor PLAYED!

    “Why can’t I have this?”

    Who says that you don’t? Maybe the full game will have the poorly designed mission preparation screen? Hell maybe we will get those atrocious menus back! Hooray!

    And Thief had cutscenes. Very cool, but limited budget cutscenes.

    And a game where Garrett starts off as someone who isn’t already a badass?! How terrible. See you in a week when you complain about how shallow main characters are and how they lack depth and backstory.

    If the game doesn’t have all the redundant shit you want, go back to the old games. They are till there.

    Nosgoth looks like an utter disgrace to the Legacy of Kain franchise, yet I couldn’t care less about it. Soul Reaver 1, 2 and 3 are still there waiting for me to be replayed.

    #8 11 months ago
  9. SameeR_Fisher

    “”In an ideal world, the PC, current-gen and next-gen versions of Thief – and every multi-gen release, for that matter – would be handled by distinct teams that could best leverage the advantages of each platform. However, that would be massively resource intensive and, in most cases, prohibitively expensive. Understanding Eidos’ focus, I now approach Thief as a title that comes at the end of this generation rather than one that’s intended to usher in the next.”"

    Or here is a better solution, they should have made this game on Next Gen, pushed it as far as they could, then started cutting stuff and downgrading to fit PS3/X360, not the other way around.

    But I think they did so cause the game was in development since what, 2008 ?!, maybe earlier, they had a development hell if rumors are true, and so it makes sense to focus on polishing the game as much as possible on current gen, a shame though.

    #9 11 months ago
  10. tokman

    @6 Yeah I really liked it too,I let my Grandaughter play it when she was 12 (Gave her nightmares ha ha)..It had quite a good story until the ending!

    #10 11 months ago
  11. SplatteredHouse

    Looking at the official site overview description of the game, it’s a strange match to the character.

    #11 11 months ago
  12. TheWulf

    @5

    Why attack me about this? It’s just my opinion and you know I always have good and valid reasons.

    It’s like this 3 minute trailer isn’t even trying.

    See? This is a flawed assumption, I’m often faced with these. You assume that I’m basing this off of the trailer — incorrect. If people would stop to breathe instead of being so violently inclined, they’d realise there may be other reasons.

    Instead, there’s a person you disagree with on the Internet. Oh no. You’ll have to attack them, won’t you?

    What is it with gamers?

    No, it’s not based upon any trailer, but rather a lore release they did a bit back about this Garrett’s back story, which is completely different to the Thief games thus far. It casts him as a virtuous Robin Hood, which is something that he’s actually never been. I’m disappointed by that because my Garrett was more shades of grey than that.

    This is what I meant by ‘I miss my Garrett.’

    Maybe next time you’ll research before attacking? It’s just my opinion, but I’m not a fan of the Robin Hood approach.

    [...] stop the senseless hating.

    You’ve seen me posting for a long time. You know I never senselessly hate anything, I haven’t in all the time I’ve been playing video games. I get weary of seeing things with depth having all their uniqueness torn away to create bland mainstream reboots, yes, but hate? Not so much.

    I’m just fed up, because this is another franchise that I love that’s being ‘re-imagined’ into something less imaginative, less clever, and less interesting. And I know this from their lore release and screenshots.

    I’m allowed to feel that way. If you want to attack me, that’s your prerogative, but it doesn’t make me look bad.

    I’ll never understand people who get so freaking attached to a label. It’s just a fucking name.

    It’s not a label, that’s the problem. If it were, I’d just ignore it because I hate brands myself. It’s just that it’s something that represents lore, a setting, and history.

    What if, for example, someone were to write a sci-fi version of Lord of the Rings in gangster speak, and then call it ‘Lord of the Rings?’ Admittedly, that would be funny, but it also kills a world, because the old version stops existing, and this new one takes its place. Sequels then exist to that, but never the original.

    See: Star Wars

    Again, you know that I never speak lightly. I always consider my words.

    Everything new and different is WRONG.

    Incorrect assumption. This is basically to profit off of the interest in Dishonored. A dishonored piss-take is hardly ‘new and interesting,’ is it? Thief was and is new and interesting because it’s an aesthetic style, setting, and character that no other game has really used.

    Whereas this Thief is just Dishonored 1.5.

    Again, I never speak lightly. I wish to drive this point home, because you believe I speak to offend, I do not.

    Please, think next time. It’s me you’re talking about.

    #12 11 months ago
  13. TheWulf

    @7

    I agree that TheDarkMod is superior as it represents a more interesting, grey character and a unique setting. In my opinion, just so no one freaks out. Will I have to start adding that as a disclaimer to my posts?

    #13 11 months ago
  14. TheWulf

    @4

    Nice to have something that isn’t an attack, thank you.

    Changing a certain amount of the background detail and deliberately making different stylistic choices is common for a reboot, otherwise it’s just a straight sequel or even a remake.

    I agree. My problem though is that they abandoned what was unique about the Thief setting in order to rip-off Dishonored. If you’ve played all three prior Thief games, as I have, then you’d know there’s much to borrow from and expand upon without having to look instead to Dishonored for material.

    My stance is that Dishonored represents a less interesting and less fleshed out world than Thief does. Thief always had the better writers and artists, in my opinion. Dishonored was just a grey hellhole.

    Just my opinion, mind you.

    But it was interesting to see what a lavish, non-trashy steampunk world would look like, and that’s what Thief represented. It was more well-maintained and colourful, and there were things about it that blurred the lines between magic and technology. It wasn’t straight-up industrial punk in the way that Dishonored was and this new Thief is.

    Go back and play the three Thief games and you’ll understand. Or play TheDarkMod.

    Furthermore, the character Garrett, as I mentioned, has been watered down. Instead of being a human being with motivations, he’s now a one-dimensional Robin Hood character who’s out to chide an apprentice for not being as much of a goody two-shoes as he is. That’s horrible.

    Essentially, it’s like the difference between Star Wars, and the Star Wars prequels. One was more mature (Han shot first) and presented a more interesting world, the other was cartoony and aimed at very young children.

    They weren’t the same thing. With different names, they would have fared much better.

    For sure, some reboots and updates work while others don’t. The Bureau is a good example of one that didn’t but then its XCOM sister-title, Enemy Unknown, is excellent. Similarly, Deus Ex: HR is a great example of a modern take on a classic franchise (also created by Eidos-M).

    I don’t disagree with any of that. I’m just not a fan of the watering down of the setting and character.

    Is there one good reason as to why Garrett had to be cast as Robin Hood other than to appease a mainstream mass that can’t grasp a three-dimensional character? This is what bothers me. It seems like with each decade that passes, gamers become more and more dumb. I remember back in the ’90s when it was perfectly okay to have characters that existed in the grey, without ever being purely Good or purely Evil.

    Garrett exists in a world designed for moral ambiguity, but now he’s become a saint. Why is that necessary? It’s not a good omen.

    It’s worth remembering that Dishonored got a bit confused if you went full-on stealth/pacifist [...]

    Yeah. But Dishonored was also about a poorly maintained hellhole (versus the more colourful and occasionally even lavish steampunk of old-Thief) and a goody two-shoes character, dealing with the rot of the world around him. It was the same story that pretty much every mainstream game tells today. Good guy faces Corruption, fights Corruption, Wins.

    That’s what I see happening in Thief, and it makes me sad. It’s like this archetype is being expressly obeyed in every mainstream game.

    Moral ambiguity is dying. That makes me sad.

    Is that so odd?

    I won’t disparage you for your opinion because you haven’t attacked me, but I can’t help but having mine, and my reservations.

    #14 11 months ago
  15. absolutezero

    Can you jump in this yet?

    Do you still get XP for arrow headshots?

    Does it still have an XP system at all?

    I suppose it is technically a Square game which explains why new Garret looks like a Nomura character. Ho boy belts.

    You can’t keep on using the “Its different give it a chance” argument when more and more games keep on ending up being worse than what came before, for the exact reasons that people originally were worried about. Splinter Cell?

    #15 11 months ago
  16. TheWulf

    And just to stress, I don’t hate this game. That’s a complete misrepresentation of how I feel, honestly, and I’m not pleased that I’m painted that way just because I have an opinion.

    I’m just disappointed and sad. I’ll play the game, and I may enjoy it, but I’ll be sad that I won’t get to see the more lavish interiors of prior Thief games, that it’ll all be washed out and grey in their effort to emulate Dishonored.

    I’m disappointed that I’ll be expecting my dear Garrett to show moral ambiguity, yet all the while he’ll be talking about how disappointed he is that his apprentice isn’t a goody two-shoes Robin Hood any more.

    See, many games try to push this.

    You are GOOD GUY. They worry that a gaming experience would break our tiny little minds if we weren’t, and that can’t happen. So we are the GOOD GUY in all experiences, rather than playing a more layered, morally ambiguous, flat character with no motivations. To push the Star Wars thing further — it’s like having played Han Solo, an then being forced to play Luke Skywalker dressed up as Han Solo.

    Grand Theft Auto IV had the same problem, where that game just kept telling you over and over that you are the GOOD GUY regardless of what you do, because that’s what the mainstream expects.

    I miss my Garrett because he was a morally ambiguous character.

    I miss morally ambiguous characters.

    I don’t want BE A GOOD GUY crammed down my throat any more. I don’t want BE AN EVIL BASTARD shoved down it, either. When did everyone become BioWare?

    So, yes. One potential customer is disappointed because of the loss of something. It’s not like the world is ending, and I’ll probably still buy the game. But I can’t stop feeling the way I do — that I’m tired of A.) being PURE GOOD, or B.) being a TRUE BASTARD.

    I want to play a person. Not a one-dimensional paragon of a single, tiny aspect of a person.

    I want good writing.

    Edit: Also throwing this out there.

    I’m tired of young characters, and how everyone has to be young and kind of handsome/rugged these days. I remember with The Witcher 2, when they originally unveiled Geralt. I loved how he looked, but the gamer audience’s reaction was that he was too ugly.

    So they reworked Geralt three times, making him younger and prettier every time. I believe one of their head artists ragequit CDProjekt RED over that, because it wasn’t the character he wanted to give people, and he felt that the character was being watered down to suit homogeneous, mainstream tastes.

    That’s exactly what they’ve done with Garrett.

    Instead of Garrett being scarred and and old fart, he’s now a young lad (compared to his prior self). And he looks completely unbesmirched. It’s like there’s this FEAR of ugliness.

    And it’s pervasive in Western culture. Look at Doctor Who and how the new Who tends to need younger Doctors who’re wanting to sex things up with every companion. Why is that necessary? I’m just not a fan of it. And I couldn’t have been happier to hear that the next Doctor is actually an old guy, that’s some relief.

    But yeah, Garrett is a young guy.

    There are some obvious tropes going on here which I’m disappointed by and sigh at. I don’t hate them (stop that), I just feel that they could do better.

    * A main character cannot be be old. It’s not permitted. Everyone has to be 25 or younger. Soon it’ll be 15 and we’ll be Japan.

    * All main characters must have sex appeal to someone.

    * Scars, facial deformities, and ugliness are NOT ALLOWED. Anyone with any of these is a horrible mutant and a threat to our genetic superiority!

    * Continuing from the above — every character must be a perfect exemplar of white peoples everywhere. Honestly, if we’re going to do a reboot, why not have a Garrett of a different ethnicity?

    * Colour is BAD. It’s horrible! Colour scares people. Our setting must be as monotone and greyscale as possible. Soon we’ll be able to sell televisions and monitors for cheaper because they’ll just be greyscale!

    * We can do detail, now! Hooray! Let’s turn every game into a hellhole of human detritus. Prettiness? Bah! No one wants that.

    * Everything is a fight of good versus evil. EVERYTHING. And the player will mostly play exclusively one side, but they’ll never play anything in-between. Their minds can’t handle it.

    * If the character is good, they must be a one-dimensional version of it. The must be flat, with next to no vices, and a true goody two-shoes, they must be driven by purely good motivations.

    * If the character is evil, they must be moustache-twirlingly evil in ways that don’t show any signs of redemption. We don’t want any Magneto-style characters here! Get out.

    * Have a back-up crew to remind the character that they’re pure good/evil at every turn. (See: GTA IV, GTA V.)

    * If the character is good, then they have to face some sort of corruption and prevail. Whether that corruption is an undercurrent of crime or a magical majigger. It’s essentially seen as a plague, an affront to the goodness of the player character.

    Now, take that checklist and look at your game library from the last ten years. See how many games apply to every one of those. :I

    #16 11 months ago
  17. SplatteredHouse

    @15 Did you watch the trailer before commenting? We clearly see in the footage, Garrett leaping onto what looks like scaffold on a building from a high wall (it looked to be) at one stage.

    “Dishonored represents a less interesting and less fleshed out world than Thief does.” That’s basically why I’ve not played it yet. Each time I’ve seen it, and seen it demonstrated after it was released, that’s just the impression that it has left, and – I was keen to play Dishonored before it was out, and we could see what was what about it – I’d rather enjoy the Thief game.
    But, as mentioned, I probably will get the goty edition of Dishonored now that the dust has settled and its dlc is no longer pellet-sized, in order to see what it is like…Let’s hear it for the falling away of demo support! I hope the Gaikai/Sony breakthrough in content delivery gets almost everything playable before money changes hands, and does so in a way that leaves developers free of the branching builds that cost much in time and resources to presently “separate” a discrete, representative portion of the full title.

    “I want to play a person. Not a one-dimensional paragon of a single, tiny aspect of a person.

    I want good writing.” Such a request should not be unreasonable, and certainly should be accomplishable, given sufficient interest and focus. I am reminded of the protagonist of Far Cry 3 (and Ubisoft’s stated intent for him, not borne out in the gameplay) as well as Lara. In these cases the lacking, the rungs missing from their character’s progression ladders don’t make me “hate” the game, but they do give me consideration over how much priority to give to buying and playing that game. Is that the sort of thing I want to see happen in future? Absolutely not!
    Then there is my answer, probably until its on some crazy sale price/the wind’s blowing the right direction, etc, but regardless, I don’t want to back that kind of development behaviour and priority.

    #17 11 months ago
  18. absolutezero

    It was reported in the PC Gamer preview that the only times you can jump are in specific jump areas, like say… a Zelda game.

    Also just to say I might be showing my age here but this is not the first time these concerns have been raised about a Thief game, I myself had no problem with the changes the third game brought to the series but I really really dislike the direction and look of this one.

    I also loved Dishonoured. There are moments of environmental brilliance (brothel, masquerade party) and I really liked the idea of stelath until being caught and then dealing with the fall-out in an amazing explosion of magic, sword-play and agility. Do not try and full stealth Dishonoured, doing so would seriously limit the toys you have to play with and as such lead to a slightly lesser experience. It is possible to stelath everything its just not all that much fun.

    #18 11 months ago
  19. karma

    No jump button, ends any minor interest I still had for this reboot of a classic.

    #19 11 months ago
  20. YoungZer0

    @12: Oh please. You attack people on a personal level with outrageously offensive language just because they think a game that you like looks “lame”. How they are just dumb FPS shooter crowd that don’t know anything about anything. So don’t give me that speech, alright?

    My language might have been harsh but it was far from an attack. You never changed your tune, you were cynical about the game when you saw the first artworks. How Garrett is emo because he wears eyeliners and all that.

    That’s why I’m getting so mad. Right from the get go you made it clear that this game is not for you, yet you continue to jump into every threat and complain how this REBOOT is not like the game you played 20 years ago.

    “No, it’s not based upon any trailer, but rather a lore release they did a bit back about this Garrett’s back story, which is completely different to the Thief games thus far.”

    Yeah, it’s a reboot, so naturally it changes things up.

    I saw your short rant, you took things out of context, invented stuff and blew other things out of proportion. Basically saying “Oh, he’s an emo youngster who steals because his parents didn’t love him!”

    The trailer never said that he was emo about anything. Is the new main character in AC also emo because he wears eyeliner?

    The trailer said that he had to steal to survive because he didn’t have any parents. We don’t know anything about his parents. Maybe they left him because he was born with eyeliner or maybe they were murdered?

    How is that so far away from the original story again? Didn’t Old-Cool-Charismatic-Garrett also steal from people when he was a kid? Wasn’t that the reason he became so good at it? Because he stole from the right person?

    “It casts him as a virtuous Robin Hood, which is something that he’s actually never been”

    Again, where did you get that? Please show me the footage and the exact time this was said. And even if that does indeed happen, why is it so wrong? It’s a reboot after all. They are not remaking it. Reboots are about changing things up.

    “I’m disappointed by that because my Garrett was more shades of grey than that.”

    First of all he is not your Garrett. He doesn’t belong to you. And again you assume too much, too quickly. Don’t assume until you played the full game. Do you really think they will show you all of the shades of Garrett’s character in the dev diary and trailers? Let them tell the story in the actual game.

    “You know I never senselessly hate anything”

    Do I really need to bring up Diablo 3 and WoW?

    “into something less imaginative, less clever, and less interesting”

    Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions.

    “What if, for example, someone were to write a sci-fi version of Lord of the Rings in gangster speak, and then call it ‘Lord of the Rings?’”

    Let them, why would I give a fuck?

    “it also kills a world, because the old version stops existing, and this new one takes its place.”

    No, it doesn’t. It really does not. How can you actually believe that?! Just ignore it and it’s not even there. Nobody is taking away your toys, you’re just getting more toys to play with, you don’t have to play with them.

    THIEF was in production much earlier than Dishonored.

    “It’s me you’re talking about.”

    I know. So far you’ve not once said anything positive about the game.

    I wonder if you would admit of being wrong when the game proves to be a success. I remember the reactions to Deus Ex: Human Revolution before people actually played it. I guess they never learn.

    “That’s a complete misrepresentation of how I feel, honestly, and I’m not pleased that I’m painted that way just because I have an opinion.”

    You painted yourself that way. If you only leave negative comments about the game, people will think that you dislike it. That’s how it works.

    “it’s like having played Han Solo, an then being forced to play Luke Skywalker dressed up as Han Solo.”

    Han Solo with Force-Powers, awesome!

    #20 11 months ago
  21. Tormenter

    ”Often, the level of polish doesn’t matter to the wider success of a project…..”

    Yeah, we noticed.

    #21 11 months ago
  22. Telepathic.Geometry

    I’ve never played the older games, so I’m looking forward to getting a taste of it…

    #22 11 months ago
  23. Stace Harman

    @karma – Jumping is contextual, so you can’t stand still and jump on the spot but you can jump off ropes, over railings, across gaps etc.

    @Telepathic.Geometry – This may benefit you, tbh. You can approach it without expectation of what it should be and judge it on whether it works as a game or not.

    #23 11 months ago
  24. karma

    #23 Stace Harman: Thanks, I appreciate the effort in the response, but I know how it works. It will be similar to Assassin’s Creed or Zelda Ocarina of Time. Basically an automated contextual climbing mechanic that relies on environmental triggers to cause the appropriate action from the protagonist. Its basically a safety net to prevent you falling or jumping to your death, and/or restricting where the player can go.

    And that is why I dont like it because it takes away the sense of freedom you have and breaks our suspension of disbelief. In reality if we want to jump up and down on the spot, we can. Being able to do that in a video game world enforces the idea that the world is more of an open simulation rather than a limited interaction in which we have nothing to fear from heights.

    The fear of falling to our doom is also removed, which makes exploration a lot less enjoyable because everywhere you can go is safe.

    #24 11 months ago
  25. Stace Harman

    @karma – to an extent you’re right, but it’s not a fail-safe. You can use it to jump off ropes in any direction or leap from rooftops to your doom (as I did when convinced that I should be able to reach a particular ledge and not seeing any other way down) but it is achieved via the same trigger that’s used for other contextual actions like vaulting a railing etc and, as such, does not grant the same freedom as a dedicated jump button.

    #25 11 months ago

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