Hotz on South American “vacation,” lawyer fights back

sad to see people defending Hotz, but it should be to no one surprise here that the people who are prefer the xbox360 over the PS3. If you owned SONY Corp I wonder what you people would be doing to combat piracy on your product?

Surprise surprise, TEA defending a company that is basically lying to people and making up stories to harm their opposition.

Honestly its only a fucking select few who even give a shit about all this. The VAST majority of ps3 owners didn’t even notice the ios(?) being removed & probably think Hotz is a brand of chilli sauce.

#51 look like i said before on the previous comments on this post, but here it goes nontheless, the reason why many consumers will took his side, is because they can install back Other S, or anything they want for that matter, with what he did, because sony did took this application without any compesantion whatsoever, a one they say it will be fully supported in all its lifetime cycle, and that was included in the cost of the device without any further compensations to those said consumers who did paid full price, therefore of course one can do bad things with this piracy and the likes, and maybe that was his primary intention, though no one can know for sure only him and God, but that doesnt mean the people that was affected by the took of other S should not stand by his side on this., becuase what sony did to them was just also wrong, so i think is not that hard to understand why they took his side over sony.

This Has nothing to do about brands, its more on consumers rights than anything else.

@manu they didn’t forcibly take anything away. The original ps3 models still can use os you just can’t update. You also can restore factory settings on the old consoles to get os back. So how did sony take it away from people? The only thing they really did was take it out of the slim series in which they informed people of that. And told the old model users if they want to keep os don’t update their firmware. Which goes with the terms of service.

Hotz and the other hackers aren’t justified on what they did. Os is still there but people love to make it seem like its gone.ITS NOT! The reality is no one who really owns a ps3 used that feature just a very small select few. But, everyone wants to make it seem like they were effected by it being taken away. Hell my friend who bought a ps3 because of OS support never even used it. He just boughtit for the option. And, when they took it out he was like “eh, oh well”

The non sence the majority of you guys come up with to defend this guy is amazing. Because you don’t even keep up with what’s been going on. In more then half of every ones post its ” I believe he did it for….” or ” sony did provoke them right?”. I love how people become passionate about he said she said but can’t actually take the time to research some things.

Other OS was removed because Hotz was mucking around with the firmware & shit from there which provoked Sony to take action before thousands of hackers exploited Other OS.

#55, yes i agree, but then the console that was capable of playing games and running Other S, will lost one of them as soon as i run an updated, for instance in order play god of war III, therefore i cannot choose, i will end loosing one no matter how i choose,for me is like a bait and swich situation, again i can´t have the two together like the way they were advertised, and for which i did paid full price, the cost of running other S was included on that price, and for that i havent been compensated, therefore is pretty much an steel and a deceiving on sonys part.

look for instance this advertise “www playstation com/ps3-openplatform/ There is more to the PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3™) computer entertainment system than you may have assumed. In addition to playing games, watching movies, listening to music, and viewing photos, you can use the PS3™ system to run the Linux operating system”,

Look for me is about rights, consumers rights that since the 1980′s are been taking an step back, there were lawsuits about being able to use VCR’s to record things and, in general, the public won. No laws were enacted that made it illegal to connect two VCR’s together and start duplicating tapes.

Back in the late 1990′s and early ’00′s, the Dreamcast was cracked wide open and people found all kinds of uses for it (many are still using the hardware today), no one went to jail, no huge lawsuits.

Now, with the DMCA, all of the above are illegal. The only way you can make a backup copy of your DVD is with software that’s been outlawed.

Want to hack your game system to play homebrew or use it as the brain for a smarthome? Sorry, can’t do it. DMCA, thank you very much.

And the list goes on. But in the last 15 to 20 years the number of freedoms we’ve lost in relation to personal property are pretty staggering (black boxes in cars that record your speed, yup, those are in new cars and the cops have the authority to get the information). But because the lose has been gradual, few have complained.

The question is, at what point do we stop and actually pay attention to what the hell is going on?

Precedent is what will be set. And, once set, it’s a bear to reverse. If Sony gets a win here (and they very well might, even with the current DMCA exception making it legal to jailbreak an iOS device) then that win becomes a hammer that can be used by any company to beat a system modifier into submission.

And like i said Before, the people that creates the law(and those who paid them), also makes the tricks and loopholes in order to avoid it, and get away with it.

Surprise Surprise Hunam the XBOT comments directly after mine waiting for his chance to strike and fail miserably every time. I told him that ass whooping I gave you yesterday wasn’t enough and now I’m $5 dollars richer

Haha he’s running for the hills. He found it funny and acted all arrogant to start off with. Now he realises that he is in some serious trouble so he’s gone south of the border.

Hope he gets whats coming to him! they should just employ him tbh.

@52: Are you serious? Which company is not lying to people?

#57: No one will disagree that it sucks that Sony removed Other OS. But it is important to realize that this is not a decision Sony wanted to make, either. The company is run by people smart enough to know that removing any kind of functionality would result in serious backlash, and so it makes no sense for Sony to remove Other OS without a damned good reason.

The story about Hotz threatening to hack the system through Linux explains this situation perfectly. Sony’s choice came down to upsetting some consumers by removing Other OS; or upsetting investors, intellectual property holders, and many others by allowing a hack to occur sooner and more easily. Sony had an EULA contract allowing it to remove Other OS, but it had no contract permitting it to allow its system, and other companies’ copyrighted material, to be compromised. Sony made the only choice it could make, when neither option was good.

There is no denying that the result sucked. Nobody wanted it. Not Sony, not ordinary consumers, and not Hotz. But the threat of the system’s compromise made this choice necessary, in order to prevent or postpone the system’s compromise.

As far as consumer rights go, do not sign contracts you don’t agree with. If you do, you are telling Sony it’s okay to engage in this conduct. You may think that it’s a “bait and switch” to present the contract after you buy the system, but there is no “switch.” The contracts are available online and you can read them without ever going to a store. They’re the same as the ones you get on the Playstation itself. No tricks. Moreover, if you buy the system, take it home, and then find you don’t agree with the contract, then do not use the system, and instead call the store or Sony so you can return it. Using the system signifies that you agree to the contract.

Ultimately, if you want to protect your rights as a consumer, then assert your rights before you give them up in a contract. It’s that simple.

Next, while you may not like the DMCA, there are good reasons for it to exist. If Sony didn’t have control over the use of the Playstation 3, it would have no guarantee that people would buy games for it (rather than, say, pirate them), and thus no guarantee that it would make back any of the money it loses by selling consoles below cost. If it did not have this sort of control, the Playstation 3 would have been priced at or above the supposed production price of $950 US per unit at launch. The $350 difference is the cost of consumer rights to “hack” the Playstation 3. If Sony had no control over its platform, it could not, and would not, price below cost, and all consumers would suffer as a result.

There is nothing unique about Sony’s control over its software. If I buy a copy of Metallica’s Greatest Hits, I do not get to own the performances recorded on the disc, or the lyrics of the songs, etc etc; even though I paid for and own the disc. Similarly, having a device with PS3 firmware gives me no right to do whatever I please with that firmware, especially not when I have agreed to a contract specifically prohibiting it. And again, if you don’t agree with a contract, don’t sign it.

No one, and I mean no one can stop you from making software for the Playstation 3, as long as you respect Sony’s copyright on its own software. That means that the proper way to develop software is to wipe Sony’s firmware from the system altogether, and then make your own. Copyright law prohibits modifying the firmware, but not making new software from scratch.

Don’t like it? Write your representatives in Washington DC. Don’t live in the USA? Stop complaining about law that doesn’t apply to you.

@57 I only believe those who can prove beyond a resonible doubt that they were directly affected by os removal should be compensated. Every consumer didn’t even take advantage of it so why should they be compensated for something they didn’t use? If I buy a product at the store and I don’t use it for months I can’t just go take it back. And if they did take it they would credit it.

The only real people affected were the ones whose systems were bricked when the os was removed. How many do that account for? A few hundred Maybe a few thousand? It definetly wasn’t in the 10k-million range. Then what is adequant compensation for one feature removed? 50 bucks? Its honestly some people just looking to either A. Get a large some for “pain and suffering” or b. Just trying to get a couple hundred bucks. Is it really worth it?

Yes people need laws to protect them. But, is a company not also comprised of hard working people? People who become directly affected when the company has to cut people loose because they have to pay every cent+ some to every angry or manipulative customer?

As for the dreamcast hacks. How could a dead company fight a hack? If sega had the backing and capability to track the hackers do you honestly believe they wouldn’t do it? The system didn’t suffer from heavy hacking until total support was lost. I remember the random guyat the local gamestop bringing his dreamcast up just to show he had a dvd player and hdd installed to his dreamcast. If that was widespread dreamcast would’ve been F*cked! No way they could control the entire online community. Hell pso is still supported on dreamcast by hackers.

#62 “I only believe those who can prove beyond a resonible doubt that they were directly affected by os removal should be compensated. Every consumer didn’t even take advantage of it so why should they be compensated for something they didn’t use? If I buy a product at the store and I don’t use it for months I can’t just go take it back. And if they did take it they would credit it.

I dont agree, if my primary reason to own a phat ps3 instead a 360 or a wii, besides gaming of course, was the option of running other S,which came with it and advertised that will last the ps3 life cycle, and lets say for instance i didnt use it right away, i just want it to do it for back up purposes, and was took it away on the following updates, i cannot use it anymore, therefore is an application that was took away even if i didnt use it, thats bite and switch, again this application was priced on the total cost, so it doesnt matter if i used it or not, they downgraded my phat ps3, they didnt add a benefit for me the consumer, they took away a benefit and i didnt received a compensation. thats wrong, maybe you wont agree but it as wrong on so many levels.

For the rest of your comment is your opinion, i dont share it but i respected.

@61 Fantastic post, sir. A refreshing minty blast of common sense and understanding in the great public lavatory of the Internet!

That’s the thing manu everything anyone states on this is opinion. Except the dreamcast stuff that actually does and still takes place. But, at the end its all speculation because nothing happened yet. And that’s what sony is fighting hackers from pulling a dreamcast on ps3.

As for os did you use it? No? Then what does it matter what intentions you might tell me you originally had was? You didn’t do therefore you weren’t affected. You and countless other people that might want to complain but if you still own the system from original intent you reap benefits that the slim series can’t. Even use!

So os is only an excuse to people who over glorify the thing they didn’t even use.

#61 NAILED IT! Read that you fuck wad XBOT Hunam. That post was so well written that when Garratt does his annual fake awards show this year I will fight tooth and nail for you having best poster of the year sir. No more of blerks cheesy boring euro humor comments being ranked as meaningful by the kiddie XBOTS. #61 has the best post of the year so far.

My favorite line: “Don’t live in the USA? Stop complaining about law that doesn’t apply to you”.

The fucking cherry on the top sir! You made my day thank you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wiYdUe36_Q&feature=related

For all the people wondering why he removed the HD controllers, I would guess it was a ‘pound of flesh, but not a drop of blood’ situation, which is really going to endear him to the courts…

“Don’t live in the USA? Stop complaining about law that doesn’t apply to you”

I think it’s pretty fair to say that the outcome of this case will indirectly effect plenty of people in plenty of countries… Otherwise Sony will be facing a case like this in just about every country where the PS3 is on sale.

Geohot is a corrupt lying ass American
He stole all that donation money from every man

Now he’s posing as a South American
run from whats right,run for your life!

PEW! PEW! PEW!

#61 “No one will disagree that it sucks that Sony removed Other OS. But it is important to realize that this is not a decision Sony wanted to make, either”,
yes it was a sony decision they put it on the console in the first place, so it had green light all over it, from different departments, even the investors, the right thing to do was made a reasearch prior to launch in order to see whats in and whats out, and do a pros and cons list not opt for the easiest option once the damage has done, thats on so many levels wrong, and more on a big corporation like sony.period

“As far as consumer rights go, do not sign contracts you don’t agree with. If you do, you are telling Sony it’s okay to engage in this conduct. You may think that it’s a “bait and switch” to present the contract after you buy the system, but there is no “switch.” The contracts are available online and you can read them without ever going to a store. They’re the same as the ones you get on the Playstation itself. No tricks. Moreover, if you buy the system, take it home, and then find you don’t agree with the contract, then do not use the system, and instead call the store or Sony so you can return it. Using the system signifies that you agree to the contract”

After months of use, thorn, and worn, do you think they will give my money back, because the took away didnt occur exactly the next day it happened many days before, after i use it a lot, at least here in my country i cannot do that, and i think a consumer cannot do that in the USA Neither.

“Don’t like it? Write your representatives in Washington DC. Don’t live in the USA? Stop complaining about law that doesn’t apply to you”.

Yes but this case is a precedent that will affect other laws in other countries, once is approved in one nation, other nations will follow suit, so i think it doesnt matter iam not from U.S.A, this case have globall implications, and in more electronic devices than just game consoles

As for the rest is your opinon and i respect it but i dont agree with it. have a nice day

I’m a bit sleepy, so I’ll try not to babble too much, I just don’t get the whole argument about “it’s ok to hack it cos they took out the Other OS option”. I mean why would you want a different OS on a games console to start with? When I buy a console it’s for the exclusive games on that machine. I don’t go shopping for a new console and think “Hmmm, I want a Linux machine, I know I’ll go buy a games console, cos yeah, Linux is a gaming platform, oh wait, none of these machines have Linux installed on them, which one will let me.”
Seriously though, don’t get me started on the whole “I want to back up my games” bollocks, everyone and their dog knows that’s nerd talk for “I r wanna copy games to play them on emulatorz lol”

And then you wonder why features get taken out of consoles/games, cos little nerdy wankers with no common sense decide to hack stuff and crap it all up for everyone else.

I suppose I should also stop making my opposition vocal to laws in countries where women are stoned to death for wanting a divorce from their shit bag husbands by that logic.

#70: Think about what you’re saying. Sony, for whatever reason, decided to trust its consumers enough to let them use the PS3 to run whatever OS, and whatever software they could get to run on the system. Now, if your reasoning follows, it seems that Sony should never have put the feature in the PS3 in the first place. Sony should never have risked giving its consumers any power to use another OS on the console. Sony should have never even taken the chance that some jackass with an illegal hobby would come and ruin things for everyone else.

This is the lesson that companies are learning now. It’s a bad move to trust consumers with having any control over the platform. If you won’t always be able to do good for consumers, then don’t even try.

As far as returns go, please re-read my post. You’ve accepted the EULA, and you’ve used your console. You can’t just decide now that you didn’t agree after all. In the U.S., contracts inside of boxed products make it so companies have to take the products back if consumers don’t agree to them. If they do agree to the contracts, then tough luck for them. Maybe they should act like they can read.

Lastly, U.S. law doesn’t limit your rights. It doesn’t. Really. Your country’s laws are what you need to worry about, and if it really would be so terrible for companies have rights to control their copyrighted material, then you should talk to your lawmakers and tell them not to support a law like DMCA.

The U.S. isn’t right about everything, and there are plenty of nations all over the place that disagree with it about all sorts of things. Their lawmakers have the opportunity to look at cases like this and figure out whether these laws are a good idea. But for now, the limits are on U.S. citizens’ rights, not yours. Turns out it’s less like getting battered to death with stones than you think. We have plenty of groups to advocate for us in lawmaking, and a court system to figure out the limits of the laws and fix them when they’re wrong. Even the Copyright Office, which doesn’t answer directly to voters, decided on its own to make phone jailbreaking legal. Any or all of these groups can and will spring into action if the law interferes too harshly with consumer interests. So will I. But I don’t see that here.

Educated Americans (oxymoron, yes) know that rights are a two-way street. I have rights, but so does everyone else. Even corporations have rights, but they have responsibilities just as big as they are. Sony must use its rights in a responsible way, so that it doesn’t piss off its customers and lose business. It can’t always do that if it foolishly decides to trust its consumers further than it can sue them. But as for our rights, we’ve got some responsibilities of our own. For starters, if we want to keep our rights, we don’t sign them away.

lol @1 everyone ignoring TEA’s poss poor fanboy waffling.

Using the term Xbot makes you sound like a 12 year old.

Question: It wasn’t failoverflow who created the hacks that allowed piracy? My bad. Who were the original creators then?

@73: You sound so reasonable. Make love to me.

LOL love how O’Connor trolls on a different account everyday and the first thing he has to say is about me….kid the cock you want to suck belongs to your tranny. Trust me no one ignores my post especially you fool.

@76 A different account every day? I’ve only ever had two accounts on here, and the only reason I ever had a second was because I lost access to the email address for the old one.

Let’s be honest here, you’re easy to laugh at. At least I’m consistently capable of holding decent discourse with people on here. The same can sadly not be said for you and your mentally deficient cock waving.

61′s post was good.

72′s was even better.

So, really, why is anybody defending hotz. He clearly doesnt care for any of you that are defending him (took people’s money to vacationa and buy new bling) and really only cares about self glorification. Let his ass fry and protect the innocent if you care so much.
Really, hacking your own system to do what you want with it shouldnt be illegal. Pirating games is. Hacking the security of the entire system and then sharing the secrets with the world for the intention of hurting the console manufacturer should be illegal. – thats what Hotz did.
Then he laughed about it and said “Neener Neener Neener, you can suck my Wiener” to Sony. Now, if somebody broke into your home and stole everything you owned and then later said “hahah, i jacked you fool” to your face, would you just simply reply “Thanks mate, im glad you stole my valuables that i worked hard for and proceeded to rub it in my face. My life is so much happier now…here, take my soul too”….i dont think so.

Spelling is prolly all messed up and grammar too, but its my bed time and i just decided to type really fast without caring lol.

I love how you guys like to compare human rights to digital rights. That is so original.lol hey maybe you might wanna. Compare animal rights next to digital later. You know like how the extinct os is now being protected from the corporate bully known as Sony! Its comparable to the mutilation of the elephant for its ivory! >.> jeez people are dicks

@75 HANDS OFF SISTER! I saw him/her* first!

*Frankly, I don’t care which

@73
Indeed. Worst part is that for the next set of consoles theres no way in hell they’ll be so open because of all of this.

@79
Yep. Its funny that some people want to make Hotz out as a great hero fighting for everyones rights, when really he’s just an attention whore who only cares about his own fame.

@Cygnar

As put together and sensible as your words sound, there are more then a few holes in there.

But basicly it is not for you nor I to decide, its upto the courts. But your doing a great job clouding the waters. And the Sony Drones love ya for it.

Once in awhile a case comes along that chalanges the way we think and changes the way things are done. The litigation surounding the PS3 may well do just that.

Sony just lost in a class action. Likly there will be a series of suits. Of which the Hotz case is just one of. And we all should be watching these very carefully. For the rulings will be impacting all future hardware from all manufacters.

It all simply boils down to rights. Ours as customers, as gamers, and as individuals. Or the rights of Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, or Apple to continue to step all over us.

Kudos to you good sir for trying to shift the focus away from that. Well played. If I didn’t know any better I would say your on damage control, a PR guy, working for Sony.

#73, “Think about what you’re saying. Sony, for whatever reason, decided to trust its consumers enough to let them use the PS3 to run whatever OS, and whatever software they could get to run on the system. Now, if your reasoning follows, it seems that Sony should never have put the feature in the PS3 in the first place. Sony should never have risked giving its consumers any power to use another OS on the console. Sony should have never even taken the chance that some jackass with an “illegal hobby would come and ruin things for everyone else.

This is the lesson that companies are learning now. It’s a bad move to trust consumers with having any control over the platform. If you won’t always be able to do good for consumers, then don’t even try”.

If they made this for the greater good,or for our good as consumers as you did put it, to give us more power, why they didnt kept continuing doing so, i mean they can solve the problem without harming the consumer, find another way to keep the application , the way that was advertised for the whole lifecycle of the device, and to make more secure the system, but alas, no instead of acting with “good intentions”, they opted for the easiest way against cosumers, so thats kind of contradictory dont you think.

“As far as returns go, please re-read my post. You’ve accepted the EULA, and you’ve used your console. You can’t just decide now that you didn’t agree after all. In the U.S., contracts inside of boxed products make it so companies have to take the products back if consumers don’t agree to them. If they do agree to the contracts, then tough luck for them. Maybe they should act like they can read”

Again the part that did not accepted the terms and agreements that came with the purchase, was sony not the consumers. the act of GEO was retaliation, that also is wrong.

“Educated Americans (oxymoron, yes) know that rights are a two-way street. I have rights, but so does everyone else. Even corporations have rights, but they have responsibilities just as big as they are. Sony must use its rights in a responsible way, so that it doesn’t piss off its customers and lose business. It can’t always do that if it foolishly decides to trust its consumers further than it can sue them. But as for our rights, we’ve got some responsibilities of our own. For starters, if we want to keep our rights, we don’t sign them away”.

Sony did sign with me the purchaser of the PS3 , a term and condition , that will have for the entire life of the device other S, and they broke that agreement at the moment they took it away, without any compensation whatsoever and without my permision, lastly insulting me doenst make your points more valid.
.

@83 Reasoned statements are not propaganda – as much as you try to imply they are. People are not drones for using reason instead of emotion to present their views.

@Kerplunk

Nice try.

But what may sound reasonable to one person is utter BS to someone else. Each territory has a different interpretation of rights and the laws surrounding them. That is one thing that makes this discussion tough in this site. So many folks from so many different places.

At the crux of this is Sony claiming they can do whatever they want for whatever reasons they want. And the other side claiming that the EUA goes too far. Companies rights vs. consumers rights.

That’s the challenge. The courts of each territory will ultimately decide.

There are many cases where established laws have grown outdated and have been challenged and then amended. From conduct of biz to consumer protection.

Sure people will have different povs.

I am not for Sony in this one(wouldn’t be in favor of MS either if that were the case). I see this as a greedy move. A move to retain control. And one that steps on people’s rights. That’s my pov.

Also the idea that someone can just not click agree is asinine. The person buys the thing, brings it home, unpacks it … what are the chances that said person isn’t interested in using it? Why do you figure the EUA are always tiny print? Always long? Always use collage level vocab? Always filled with confusing wording? And almost always displayed just before all you have to do is click to use the thing you bought, brought home, and unpacked?

Its psychology. Designed for the average person to simply click past it. Tell me you read all the EUAs? For your Phone, websites, games, music, movies, marketplaces, etc etc? No one does. That’s why they do it in the fashion they do.

If said consumer looking to buy the PS3 for use of the OS, was told before purchase that Sony CAN remove that feature would they still buy it? Prolly, because they would reason that if the feature was currently in there, Sony would intend for it be used. Sony wouldn’t intend to remove it.

However if Sony told said consumer that they intended to remove the other OS to cut costs in a few months … would Sony still make a sale? No. And that is why people feel deceived.

It isn’t because they deserve it for not reading the EUA. That is stupid.

Let’s say said consumer did read the EUA, and decided that they didn’t want the thing. Where I live no store will accept it back. They will claim you used it(the PS3). You bought it, took it home, unboxed it, hooked it up, turned it on, set it up, then read something, and returned it to the store. That will fly like a lead balloon.

Whatever your pov, there is an issue that goes beyond some mostly ignorant posters on a website. That’s why I say the courts will decide.

As for Cygnar, sorry but yea, he sounds like a tool. Sony couldn’t have crafted a better statement themselves. Cygnar btw is(among other things) a name for a hacking program.

#86, man iam not that savy on english language or in anything for that matter,and sometimes i cannot put the correct words to transmit the idea i have in my mind, so thanks to put the words sometimes i cannot said, nice read,

Its all good ManuOtaku.

If I had to use another language besides my own I wouldn’t be able to say much at all. I am often impressed with you folks that post here from nonenglish speaking nations.