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PS4 vs Xbox One: the format war is a marathon, not a sprint, says Sony

Monday, 30th September 2013 11:27 GMT By Dave Cook

Sony’s UK VP and MD Fergal Gara has discussed the nature of the incoming format war between PS4 and Xbox One. He’s called it a marathon, rather than a sprint.

Speaking with Eurogamer, the site posed to Gara that Xbox 360 outsold PS3 in the UK 4:1 since both formats launched, and asked him how Sony looked to gain the lead with PS4.

He replied, “This format war, if you want to call it that, is a marathon, not a sprint. We’re coming out of the blocks in a strong position, but we’re conscious that is no-where close to job done, and we have to continually improve the proposition, proving what PS4 represents.

“We’ve got a bit of history of doing that. To have a 16 month disadvantage and actually get any market share in the current generation, which is a very connected generation where friends get friends, took a lot of hard graft. Winning Europe and winning Japan despite that big disadvantage… globally we might even be ahead. They’re both big numbers with different regional polarisations, but you’re right, we are behind in the UK and that is not acceptable.

“You’ve got to start good and keep on your toes. PS4 is a platform that can and will evolve. It will be great on day one but it will be far better in year two and year three as expectations rise and ideas are generated and these new tools are executed. That’s the way to win. And obviously the gameplay and the core experiences are hugely pivotal to that. They are going to start really strong, but they have to continue to grow and continue to improve.”

When I interviewed Gara last week he said that publishers and developers alike have called PS4 a “dream” to develop for, and he’s hopeful it’s going to take the UK by storm when it launches here on November 29.

What do you think?

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88 Comments

  1. Pytox

    yay 10 more years of not 1080p 60fps native

    #1 1 year ago
  2. monkeygourmet

    Then why have they both made consoles with specs that will be relevant for about 2 years max…

    I hope the cloud can bail them both out.

    Sub HD resolutions on launch, dat cutting edge tech…

    On launch of 360, I had to pay about £600 for a 32″ 720p samsung TV. Now you can get a 40″ 1080p Samsung TV for about £399…

    Failing to target 1080p is a huge fail considering the uptake and price of TV’s now.

    Can you even buy a sub 1080p set now?

    #2 1 year ago
  3. Joe Musashi

    Advancements in a gaming generation do not begin and end with FPS and resolution. Leave that sort of thinking for narrow-minded PC Elitists.

    JM

    #3 1 year ago
  4. viralshag

    @2, You really need to get off this under-powered console trip you’re on… Everyone said the exact same things last gen and look how long they have stayed relavent for.

    Honestly the PC is ALWAYS more powerful and you get maybe a handful of games that really max it out over a console gen. And usually it’s graphical improvements at best.

    “My PC from 2 years ago is more powerful than these consoles.” And really the only thing that relates to that is “My Battlefield 3 looks better than yours!” Which, in the grand scheme of things, doesn’t seem like the most important thing in the world.

    I’ll be glad when the new consoles are out and people can get over whatever issues they have because right now the whole “it’s underpowered”, “my PC is better” and “Sony/MS ownz!” is all old ground being re-tread just like every new console gen.

    /Rant over.

    #4 1 year ago
  5. CyberMarco

    @2 “Can you even buy a sub 1080p set now?”

    Yup, there are plenty of options for 32″ 720p TVs, even with LED LCD. At least in Greece and Italy that is.

    *Edit

    Also to add at Viralshag, It’s naive to argue on the fact that “consolez suckz compare to PC Master Race”.

    You wont get that “bang for your buck” with any PC compared to a dedicated console, that is unless SteamOS will be proved revolutionary.

    And one more thing, my 2010 high-end PC wont be able to max BF4 at 1080p @60FPS (obviously) so I don’t get all the backslash regarding the fact that XB1/PS4 wont be 1080p @60FPS. “lol, DICE u sucz!”

    #5 1 year ago
  6. Ireland Michael

    Why does it even need to be a “war” in the first place?

    Just enjoy whatever you enjoy.

    #6 1 year ago
  7. absolutezero

    Agreed completely.

    At this stage there is nothing anyone can do about the hardware contained within the consoles, whining about it is not going to change anything.

    AAA is still going to be made with consoles at the forefront and people will still go out and buy them, no matter if they could be running better, no matter if the scope could have been larger. Its like this for every generation to date. You will play these games so why be horribly upset about the hardware they are running on?

    #7 1 year ago
  8. Llewelyn_MT

    If you want a marathon just stop scrapping everything (game libraries, controllers, accessories) with every new generation and start from scratch. PC does just that. In other words, he just advised you all to get a PC instead.

    #8 1 year ago
  9. pcbros

    @3 – “Advancements in a gaming generation do not begin and end with FPS and resolution. Leave that sort of thinking for narrow-minded PC Elitists.”

    That’s why PS4′s theoritical 40% power advantage means zero to me. Everyone focuses on graphics. Narrow-minded PS4 elitists think that power is all that matters.

    I see the Kinect 2, indie developers and Valve pushing more boundaries during this next-gen cycle than anyone else.

    Graphics get old quick, gameplay and innovation are long lasting.

    #9 1 year ago
  10. Joe Musashi

    Power =! Graphics

    There’s a huge amount you can gain from power that benefits gameplay that is something other than graphics. For example, open-world sandbox games have flourished this generation. Things like path-finding, AI etc – all benefit and evolve from additional power that doesn’t have to be all about FPS and resolution.

    But I’m not against better graphics if it adds something to gamplay. If MGS has a day/night cycle that realistically affects how it portrays shadows and if the AI can observe the shadows cast by the player then that’s an example of more power, portrayed graphically, that adds an advancement to AI and emerges in meaningful gameplay.

    So it’s not a black and white argument and there is no point to dismiss power outright. But reducing it to FPS/resolution arguments is only demonstrating shortsightedness.

    JM

    #10 1 year ago
  11. CycloneFox

    Absolutely agree with Joe Musashi.

    (Oh, and the equals-not-operator is !=, not =!)

    #11 1 year ago
  12. monkeygourmet

    Im not narrow minded enough to just want 1080p & 60FPs…

    Christ, the Wii U and 3DS have some of my favourite titles and Im sure that will continue well into ‘next gen’.

    This is purely my choice and observations.

    Games aren’t targetting 1080p, okay thats fine given the other great features these consoles can offer right?

    So what do we have as launch titles. A hack and slasher that runs under 1080p and about 15 multiplat games which will play almost identical on current consoles…

    Other than that we have the same sequels.

    Best stuff by far are Indie titles IMO.

    So, as I have a choice, PC is going to be my main gaming device next gen, I feel both manufacturers have dropped the ball spec’s wise to keep these machines relevant for a long period.

    #12 1 year ago
  13. Dragon246

    Btw, this proves that Wii U is a last gen console with 7 year old graphics.
    No one needs it since its about the GRAPHICZ, as seen by sales.

    Funny PS4 and X1 is getting bashed on that front.

    #13 1 year ago
  14. Mr Sparkle

    People who complain about graphics and fps so much never played console games before 2000, let alone before 1985 methinks!

    #14 1 year ago
  15. DeVitowned

    Fuck the format war. Just have fun!

    #15 1 year ago
  16. pcbros

    @10 – But the PS4 has a supposed increase in graphical power. My point was that people claiming PS4 > XB1 because of said graphical power advantage are being narrow minded.

    @13 – I guess all those indie games Sony preached about must be last-gen games. No will want those games :P

    #16 1 year ago
  17. Dragon246

    ^sarcasm detector fail :D

    Btw, ’tis true. Those indie games wont sell as much as big guns.
    And you are comparing hardware with software. 3 million for a games is awesome, especially for an indie. For a hardware its worse than shit.
    Wii U is a walking dead and a failure as of now, with future looking even more grimier.
    Wii U is dead when either PS4 or X1 passes it in sales.

    #17 1 year ago
  18. Lengendaryboss

    @15
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXu6QmxpJE

    Point: Sony have always said this, moving on.

    #18 1 year ago
  19. pcbros

    I just think people have become so simple minded when it comes to games. It’s like buying a cereal because of the nice packaging or watching a movie just because of it’s special effects.

    If gameplay was a true factor in games, a bunch of these AAA next-gen titles would be considered last-gen.

    #19 1 year ago
  20. Clupula

    For me, it comes down to Japan. My two favorite genres are JRPG’s and fighting games and we already know titles like Guilty Gear Xrd are confirmed Playstation exclusives. Not to mention, I think Sony have some of the best first party ip’s out there. A proper God of War 4, the return of Uncharted, Infamous: Second Son, whatever Quantic Dream will be working on. That’s what sells me on a system and why I will eventually get a PS4, instead of an XB1.

    #20 1 year ago
  21. Riseer

    @ 2 Yea I bought a 1080p TV about 5 years ago…still waiting to play games at native resolution,i do play some Pc games on it though.Most of the Ps4 games will run 1080…just not 60fps.

    #21 1 year ago
  22. Riseer

    @20,Yup that is the reason I want a Ps4..those exclusives are amazing.Also i like how Ps4 will be a F2P console.Might have a few gems in time.

    #22 1 year ago
  23. Riseer

    @9,Kinect doesn’t do shit for me.I have my own gym equipment i don’t need to wave my arms like a fool.Also,the latency is quite bad still.You are nothing more then Xbot/Pc elitist,never once i seen you even talk neutral about Ps4.I already had it out with you, and your BF before I won’t be baited into another one of your flame wars.MS deserves to get punched in the face this gen.

    #23 1 year ago
  24. VibraniumSpork

    @23 Obligatory: http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/We+ve+Got+a+Bad+Ass+Over+Here.+Gif+d_d7c412_3510490.gif

    #24 1 year ago
  25. wildBoar

    @20 Yeah I think all the arguing is really detracting from the excitement we really should be feeling. I can still remember the absolutely jaw-droppingly insane plane-sequence from Uncharted 3, or Poseidon from Gow3 which they pulled off on 7 year old hardware.
    I can’t even imagine what Naughty Dog and other devs will now be able to pull off on next-gen, but that makes me EXCITE.

    #25 1 year ago
  26. LOLshock94

    A marathon X1 will win.

    X1 CONSOLEFAGS UNITE!

    #26 1 year ago
  27. pcbros

    @23 – Your trash of a comment just shows how much of a Sony fanboy you really are…

    #27 1 year ago
  28. sebastien rivas

    @ 2
    Yep interesting question you got but they both have to be profitable which again in my perception….
    being profitable is a marathon, not a sprint ;) This said, it means regardless what they do, even if the console is not profitable for next 5 years, you already know their services will be the juicy part of things and that, without breaking much sweat, much like a marathon done on a motorcycle :)
    Therefore, what does that mean….., I were Sony or MS, I would have stepped in and ask my people to bring me another solution than actual APU choice which again are good choices indeed but does not leave room or margin of any kind and cannot sustain aging anyway.
    No wonder why Carmack said MS/Sony are not going to be happy when Steambox comes to live… was it Carmack or somebody else… I am not sure… anyway, you get my point.

    @9
    I agree with you, 40% on white paper means nothing, though I must say it means it has the potential to squeeze and stuffs just a tad more with codes and polygons; therefore it may make developers’ life a bit easier.

    @7
    I must partially disagree with you. I for one do not feel myself picky much like you mentioned but I bring relevance of money spent against what the box offers / can do / where it comes from versus price tag.
    1) yes brand tends to have a little plus in my heart
    2) The spec, the spec, and again, the spec is what matters to me. I am extremely curious by nature and need to assume or better know how a machine spec is to work altogether between components, if it will be clunky or smooth.
    3) I cherish novelty in process and hardward but little extra are always welcome.
    4) The price tag. We talk about MS and Sony respective new machine here. But Remember the price tag for both PS3 and Xbox 360 at launch several years ago? It was in the order of what 500 to 600$, correct?
    I just went to Costco this week and guess what I saw, PS3 and Xbox 360 at 54$, FIFTY FOUR DOLLARS and it comes with a game too. Dam, I wish I could type that in character size 54 too. Anyway, what does that mean. We ca argue that with age, it becomes easier to produce a same item, yes it is true, but, the relevance at which the price margin occurs is not, again what does that mean, roughly a machine that costs 10% of its inital price tag means that at the beginning the price tag DID NOT include components and a bit of margin for manufacturer but components + margin for the manufacturer + a load for share holders eye candy too… hoo look at us, we are at +23% margin for this quarter… buy our shares.
    even for this actual coming generation. We as long term gamers think ok This console has 8gb GDDR 4 or GDDR 5 (respectively), I assume around PC1600 therefore 80 bucks a stick + this APU architecture revolves between this one and that one at retail therefore a price tag that should come at 109 ~ 129 dollars + the MB that according to photos showing the actual mobo should be around 49$… etc etc which then when you add up comes way higher than price tag but the truth is at first glance, any retail store is a middle man which apply its own margin while manfacturer NEVER sell at loss, they may sell at loss from a profit margin prevision but that is it.

    Anyway, as other posters mentioned, it is too late to whine about it and I agree but in the meantime this is what happened, I had a Ps4 pre-ordered which I then declined when MS stopped their BS’ing around, yet, I have not yet pre-ordered an Xbox1 because I really am on the fence, buy or buy not. Why? Because 1+2+3 versus 4 barely holds its own on thread by the tip of a finger. Meanwhile and that does not make things easier for MS nor Sony, I see Valve pumping up for 2014 with its own machine and here I can control the machine; therefore GOOD riddance to overspend, have better control of what in and what out of the machine and making sure that NO title come in my hand and can be played but with limited features (cough) BF4 (cough, cough..).

    So right now everything is in balance for me, I wait and see ;)

    #28 1 year ago
  29. LOLshock94

    @28

    2 lorng.
    no wan reads.
    waisted werds.

    #29 1 year ago
  30. Lengendaryboss

    @29
    Genre-defining english that ;)

    #30 1 year ago
  31. LOLshock94

    @30

    fnk yew

    #31 1 year ago
  32. Lengendaryboss

    @31
    “Thank you”, is what i get from that. Thanks :D

    #32 1 year ago
  33. pcbros

    @28 – I agree with you.

    I’ve been on the fence myself. I have a XB1 preorder I’m giving to my friend. I want to wait it out and see. Plus, who knows how many hardware bugs or unfulfilled promises we see.

    I’m in no hurry to buy either one.

    Btw, $54 PS3??? I have a Costco membership and I don’t recall seeing it. I’d pick one up to play infamous 2 and Uncharted 3 :)

    #33 1 year ago
  34. sebastien rivas

    @29

    Let me resume it for you “who cant read good and cant type good”.
    Don’t know which, I wait, I see.

    #34 1 year ago
  35. LOLshock94

    @34

    Stil tew lorng
    Ddnt Reed

    #35 1 year ago
  36. fearmonkey

    @19 – I can understand where your coming from on graphics, but it’s not just more objects, better lighting that increased graphic power can give you.

    The PS4 has a more powerful GPU. so even if the game is a ported game with the same graphics and resolution, they could up the antialising, filtering, and tessellation without any performance hit. If the game is being scaled from 720p to 1080p that antialising would help greatly, textures would look better, and tessellation could improve object density.

    Better graphics don’t equal a better game, but increase those things I mention and a game will look better without any major changes, and it’s an easy setting to implement.

    #36 1 year ago
  37. LOLshock94

    X1>PS4>PC-PIRATES

    #37 1 year ago
  38. Joe Musashi

    @16 What is this graphical insistence of yours? GPUs can be repurposed for other calculations. That’s what good programming is – utilising the resources (such as power) to produce the desired results in the most efficient manner possible. Great programmers utilise a system’s resources in ingenious ways to do things that lesser programmers can’t. Go and see what some people can do with a scientific calculator sometime.

    Also: until proven everything is theoretical. Whether it’s a 40% power advantage, some ‘revolutionary’ control scheme or the ‘infinite power of the cloud’.

    JM

    #38 1 year ago
  39. pcbros

    @38 – Just commenting on what you said @3. You basically said resolution and FPS are only important to “narrow-minded PC elitists”.

    I was agreeing on the fact that graphics don’t mean everything this generation. People keep throwing the XB1 under the bus because supposedly it doesn’t have the GPU power the PS4 has. I just think that’s a narrow-minded approach to choosing a console.

    “Great programmers utilise a system’s resources in ingenious ways to do things that lesser programmers can’t.”

    That applies to the cloud as well.

    Couldn’t good programming also make use of the cloud and therefore be used for calculations, better gameplay, and better graphics?

    My point is just that a game/console is made up of many ingredients. Graphics is only part of it. For example, to say the Wii U sucks just because the graphics do not compare to XB1/PS4 is also being narrow-minded.

    #39 1 year ago
  40. Joe Musashi

    I should have been clearer in saying that narrow-minded PC elitists stress these things over others.

    Couldn’t good programming also make use of the cloud and therefore be used for calculations, better gameplay, and better graphics?

    A system is only as powerful as it’s weakest link. If you regard The Cloud (lets remember that this is a PR buzzword) as a system resource then your are, by association, introducing considerable latency (and latency that cannot be determined or reduced beyond a certain measure of ‘educated guesswork’ due to the myriad of factors that contribute towards it) between that resource and the rest of the system – not good. This is why things like memory speed are increasingly becoming deciding factors. The ability to process data is becoming so high that, realistically, it’s not so much a distinguishing metric. But if you can’t shift that data efficiently around the system due to where it needs to be in a timely fashion then where is the benefit of having it processed in such a manner? I would argue it is only a benefit for non cycle-critical/JIT applications. Which, for videogames, makes it largely redundant.

    Without question, there are good applications for server-based processing. Videogames is not one of them.

    But Microsoft’s ‘Cloud’ and its so-called power (infinite or otherwise) will never be anything other than theoretical. Because Microsoft are not ever going to divulge what their ‘Cloud’ actually is or how it’s doing whatever it is that Microsoft claim it does. Not that they would ever be so transparent as to say so. You’ll be told it has an advantage but never how in genuinely provable metrics. It will be, as it has been to this day, all ambiguous claims and nebulous statements.

    Less of a cloud, more of a fog.

    JM

    #40 1 year ago
  41. pcbros

    @40 – But Nvidia showcased their CloudLight demo back in July.

    “Nvidia CloudLight is an inexpensive way for developers to apply real-time lighting effects into their game using the cloud.” (Link)

    It’s not perfect and has trade-offs but the potential is there.

    Also, Forza 5 is using the cloud to run the AI. That’s a gameplay improvement (having more human AI vs mechanical AI that we have been used to in the past).

    @sebastien rivas – I called my local Costco and they don’t have any consoles period and I couldn’t find the deal online. Are you sure about that deal?

    #41 1 year ago
  42. Joe Musashi

    @41 Showcases mean nothing. Controlled environments. Simulated real world claims. In other words best guess latency emulated to show off whatever it is they’re selling in the best possible light. Show all the advantages, none of the disadvantages. Unproven. Theoretical.

    From your linked article:

    ..compared to a hardware memory bus, the network introduces relatively large latency and low bandwidth between certain pipeline stages

    As for Forza 5, the only thing I’ve noticed is their Drivatar – which neatly fits into the non-cycle critical work I mentioned earlier. Processing wodges of statistical data to produce an AI. The AI is packaged and returned to the console to be executed in realtime on the local hardware. Better ghost cars. And, at this point, unproven. Will there even be a means of comparing locally produced drivatars to cloud-produced ones? Or do we just accept that we’re being told that this is something Microsoft’s cloud is doing and that it’s doing it better than a local option could? Any proof or just claims?

    JM

    #42 1 year ago
  43. sebastien rivas

    @ 41
    I live near chicago IL, I went to Costco on 1st Avenue and North avenue roughly 5 days ago. They have a whole section with white boxes for sure they have Xbox 360 at 54 bucks + a game I think it is a Madden NFL game and I am 50/50 sure they also have PS3 + a game and both system for 54 bucks. Now they also had another deal where at least Xbox was for 99$ that came with another game but I do not recall which it was.

    #43 1 year ago
  44. DrDamn

    @41
    Forza’s cloud use isn’t in game. It takes data, processes it and creates the drivetaar for use in game. When you actually race the AI is still being managed/calculated locally though.

    #44 1 year ago
  45. nollie4545

    If Forza doesn’t do weather, and night and day racing, I’m not buying it. Sorry.

    As for the PS4 being more powerful, it makes nothing, how come so many games looked better on the 360 than the PS3 yet it was a ‘lesser’ machine in hardware terms?

    #45 1 year ago
  46. pcbros

    @42 – So you are dismissing the nvidia CloudLight all together? Like I said in my previous comment, it’s not perfect but the potential is there. Who are we to say the cloud will not amount to anything in the gaming industry?

    Networks always introduce latency but that didn’t stop games from going from local-multiplayer to online-multiplayer. Local-multiplayer provides way better performance but we can’t over look the benefits of online-multiplayer.

    My point being that just because a technology hasn’t matured or isn’t perfect, doesn’t mean it’s useless.

    Also, you keep talking about how nothing is proven, but where has Sony proven anything?

    All the possible uses for the increase in power the PS4 has over the XB1 has to be proven in the real world as well. As of now, Sony has not shown us how this power advantage is being used. So far games look pretty equal to me.

    I’m just saying, people need to be open minded and not be so focused on numbers. Let’s not forget, the power of the Cell.

    #46 1 year ago
  47. nollie4545

    I have no clue why you would need a local machine to use the computing power of the cloud. CPUs are not taxed by gaming. They eat games with gusto. An average PC CPU is capable of dishing up all the data two relatively fast modern GPUs could ever want in a modern game. The GPUs will always be the ones to throw in the towel first.

    Anyway the bandwidth between CPU and RAM and GPU are all equally good. Sucking data off a solid state drive is not so good. Taking it off a mechanical drive is getting bad, throw in your average internet connection for comparison and its like a fly trying to rape an elephant.

    #47 1 year ago
  48. Phoenixblight

    @47

    This isn’t being done real time. THis would all be done after the race it would send the data over the cloud. Then it would create a new driveatar send it back which would all be done while perusing the menu screen or loading.

    #48 1 year ago
  49. pcbros

    @48 – Exactly.

    Driveatar is not possible if we removed the network element. You need to keep track of millions of player’s driving data in one central area (in other words, the server is saving all this data on it’s end) and then all the local consoles would have to download this data from the servers.

    But the server is the one processing all this data. It calculates all this data and then translates it to “driving styles”. So the console basically just gets the chewed up data and quickly loads it into the AI cars.

    #49 1 year ago
  50. sebastien rivas

    @48

    So that is all what the cloud can do per se and for any games?
    Just exchange data and adjust AI?
    If this is all then why the fuss with the cloud?

    the cloud is something intriguing to me which I have a hard time pin pointing its use.
    If the cloud cannot offload more than per-formatting an AI based upon player post game(s), then again… that’s it?

    #50 1 year ago
  51. Riseer

    @46,This isn’t Ps3 vs 360, both Ps4/Xbone share a lot of the same hardware.Just so happens Sony went with a better memory solution and Gpu.Their are games that look awesome on Ps4 Killzone SF is more open then Ryse it runs at a higher resolution with the same FPS as Ryse.Also,I am looking forward to Infamous SS,it being an open world game with those graphics is amazing.

    Ryse lacks the gameplay i desire in a combat oriented game.

    #51 1 year ago
  52. Joe Musashi

    @46 I’m giving it as much weight as anything else that is theoretical and unproven.

    And, given the latency issues already declared by the manufacturers in their own controlled environment of a showcase, I don’t expect my assessment of the worth of cycle-critical work being performed via a hosted solution to change any time soon. (And the more reluctant to provide tangible, measurable evidence of its worth by its peddlars, the harder it will be to sell to people like me).

    “Who are we to say the cloud will not amount to anything in the gaming industry?

    We are the consumers. Those who the product will be sold to and who must first be convinced of its worth.

    Advising faith in the theoretical and unproven Cloud (a PR buzzword) moments after making a big point about the worth of theoretical and unproven silicone (statistical data) is a pretty inconsistent approach to technology.

    It’s all unproven – in the real world. If you happen to believe in one unproven thing but doubt another unproven thing then that’s your view. I just don’t share it.

    “My point being that just because a technology hasn’t matured or isn’t perfect, doesn’t mean it’s useless.”

    Well, you certainly imply that with your theoretical and unproven dismissal of the performance of cold, hard silicon. But you give credibility-stretching allowance to a PR buzzword of an intangible product that, to quote, has been referenced as having “infinite power”.

    I’ve not said cloud-based technology is useless. Far from it. I’ve stressed it is ideal for some tasks. And it is far from ideal for others. Nothing by those evangelising it has demonstrated its worth to me as bringing anything meaningful to cycle-critical processess used in modern videogames.

    I think I’m being pretty specific there, so please take that into account if you believe I’m implying something is completely worthless.

    JM

    #52 1 year ago
  53. Phoenixblight

    @50

    This is one use of it. THey can’t use cloud to do anything that would cause latency in game. It will be stuff similar to this, static lighting(which is pointless considering all the next gen engines have a ways of doing dynamic light at a low cost)

    You could use it for procedurally generated levels but it would be done in a loading screen. It will be the stuff that doesn’t cause latency to the user.

    Cloud is just a general term meaning a bunch of servers in a remote location is doing some work and spitting it back at the console whether that is streaming ie Gaikai or something like this.

    #53 1 year ago
  54. monkeygourmet

    I have a feeling PCBros is being led down the ‘garden path’ here…

    #54 1 year ago
  55. Joe Musashi

    I have a feeling PCBros has already been led down a garden path.

    JM

    #55 1 year ago
  56. Lengendaryboss

    Oh boy:
    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll5xqftFR11qbua2oo1_250.gif

    #56 1 year ago
  57. sebastien rivas

    @53

    Thanks a bunch for those relevant information, my brain was being “clouded” ever since rumbling praise by respective manufacturers.

    #57 1 year ago
  58. pcbros

    @50 – We don’t know what it can do or what is possible.

    Who would have thought we could stream games? I’m sure when that idea was introduced people said it would be impossible due to lantency.

    @52 – “We are the consumers. Those who the product will be sold to and who must first be convinced of its worth.”

    Doesn’t mean we know any better and can say something is possible or impossible.

    My personal preference is to give technologies a chance, rather than to shoot them down because of doubt. Streaming, Cloud, Motion-Control, SteamOS, Steam Machine, SteamPad, VitaTV, PS4-Vita Streaming, etc are all things that I’m looking forward to seeing shape out this next-generation.

    #58 1 year ago
  59. nollie4545

    I’ll tell you the technologies that will shape gaming in the next 10 years. Cloud mass storage. MUCH faster internet or data-links. Virtual reality headsets (Occulus rift) and ever more powerful and efficient CPUs and GPUs made from novel materials using nano-technology.

    #59 1 year ago
  60. sebastien rivas

    @58

    Perhaps or indeed, we never know what more can be done, though @53 brought sufficient information to explain in what manners the cloud could be used at “generic level”.

    #60 1 year ago
  61. sebastien rivas

    @59

    Yep, I agree Occulus and respective counterpart from Sony may enable the game industry to breath if done right.
    Natively used by games, Natively…

    #61 1 year ago
  62. pcbros

    @59 – I forgot about the Occulus rift… that’s another one :)

    #62 1 year ago
  63. Joe Musashi

    @58 If you want to believe in one unproven thing then, by all means, go for it. I hope infinite cloud power is bestowed upon you and all your dreams are realised. Me? I’m holding out for time travel. :)

    I just find it odd that you will evangelise and make constant excuses to believe an intangible PR buzzword when you specifically made a point about unproven and theoretical things having little real-world worth earlier on. Surely you can see the contradiction, yes?

    “Doesn’t mean we know any better and can say something is possible or impossible.”

    That’s a pretty weighty dismissal your throwing at people there. Some might take offence at your implication.

    I think, as evidenced by other recent comments here (and even the article you linked to), nobody is claiming to know more. But there is enough factual information out there and real world knowledge to know what is or isn’t possible when held up against the nebulous, unproven, theoretical claims of a company spokesperson.

    JM

    #63 1 year ago
  64. yeoung

    @Joe Musashi:

    You don’t simply wait for time travel. You will have been waiting for time travel.

    I have nothing of value to add to “Teh Cloud” discussion.

    #64 1 year ago
  65. pcbros

    @63 – I’m not saying the cloud is a source of endless power.

    My point is that it could benefit games. The cloud is allowing for dedicated servers to be available easily to developers. That alone equals improved online gaming (less lag, no host migrations). Microsoft will no doubt have a network advantage at launch.

    So we might just see people stating that certain games perform better on the PS4 but the same game might have better online performance on the XB1.

    But like I said, I’m not buying either one till next year (if then).

    #65 1 year ago
  66. Lengendaryboss

    One does not simply time travel ;)
    http://moviejunkyard.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/27477419.jpg

    http://s181.photobucket.com/user/shellnick2003/media/tumblr_lsv32sw2431qafrh6.gif.html

    #66 1 year ago
  67. monkeygourmet

    Yeah, I really can’t see the part where PCBros was being so ‘pro’ cloud. Please link me, I feel like that his main ‘point’ has been lost and we’ve gone off on a tangent.

    #67 1 year ago
  68. pcbros

    I like to debate subjects becaue I feel at the end, I become a more informed gamer. If everyone is saying, “Xbox One sucks”, I like to see what makes the Xbox One special. Same goes for Nintendo, Sony or PC. People can say what they want but I feel I have a well rounded view of all the next-generation competitors.

    Btw, I just saw the first commercial for World of Tanks on TV and I feel pretty hyped to play this game.

    #68 1 year ago
  69. DSB

    I don’t see why you’d ever want to tether a perfectly normal game to a distant server unless you were running a persistent world.

    It just seems like that drastically decreases the value of the game.

    People are freaking out about EULAs challenging their ownership. So, how are they gonna feel about only being able to play those games as long as Microsoft are willing to keep them running?

    You have to assume that EA doing a 180 on screwing people by shutting down servers in the past is meant to reassure them that it won’t happen in the future, but why on earth wouldn’t it? Doesn’t EA and Microsoft love money? Are they going to start putting the gamer first?

    I’m not optimistic about that.

    #69 1 year ago
  70. Joe Musashi

    I’m not saying the cloud is a source of endless power.

    Neither did I. But its spokespeople did and have made the error of implying otherwise. Which is a contradiction. Which, for most people, would be a red flag as to just how much of a sales pitch should be believed. Especially when it’s unproven.

    “The cloud is allowing for dedicated servers to be available easily to developers.”

    Spoken like a salesman. PR buzzword and all.

    They’re as available as they always were. Microsoft are now selling dedicated server facilities [for gaming] alongside other companies that were selling them previously. Yet, suddenly, now that Microsoft’s salespeople are evangelising them it’s something new, special and helping games. Oh my!

    Microsoft are offering a strategic discount. That’s it.

    I don’t see Microsoft’s ‘dedicated server solution’ as anything other than a me-too vendor with more marketing muscle and the advantage of implying their products are symbiotic and people rushing to believe this and other intangible, unprovable claims.

    Maybe they’ll prove othewise. But, guess what?

    And, at this point, it’s theoretical and unproven. Which, when I entered this discussion, seemed to be criteria you employed to detract worth from something. Whereas, ever since, you don’t seem to care. In fact the more nebulous, ambiguous and fantastical a sales-pitch and the more theoretical and impossible-to-prove it is the more you appear to endlessly advocate it. Either way it’s still a contradiction I find impossible to ignore and one you’ve made no attempt to address.

    JM

    #70 1 year ago
  71. pcbros

    @70 – Will Call of Duty Ghosts run on dedicated servers for the PS4?

    “We looked into dedicated servers on console when we were developing Call of Duty 4, and the problem was that we could only fit four [multiplayer] games onto each server. So, you times that by how many games were being played, and it was going to come out to be more servers than every data center in the United States. It would have been impossible to do,” he said.

    Obviously the power of the servers grew, and we can fit more and more instances per server, which has helped a bit, and the fact now that Microsoft is supporting this huge cloud initiative, dedicated servers make a ton more sense. We’ll have scalability, and we’re not having to run data centers which we’re not necessarily equipped to do. Having Microsoft do that is fantastic.” (Link)

    It’s going to be interesting to see how many 3rd-party multi-platform games will run on dedicated servers on the PS4 vs XB1 ;)

    #71 1 year ago
  72. monkeygourmet

    I just took it as:

    You can believe in the power of the cloud as much as the 40% power advantage the PS4 has over the Xbone. As in, both are unproven and therefore intangible until we have more evidence / information.

    Although I’ve dipped in and out so I may be way off.

    Edit:

    Scratch that, it now seems purely about ‘the cloud’ :)

    Double edit:

    @73

    Good, I thought things went abit off piste. I didn’t want to put words in your mouth though! :)

    #72 1 year ago
  73. pcbros

    @72 – That was my point exactly. People are quick to jump on the 40% power advantage, yet quick to trash the power of the cloud.

    #73 1 year ago
  74. Joe Musashi

    @71 I don’t know. Do you think it’ll make any impact on the cycle-critical aspects of the game?

    And, if you’re going to argue latency then you’re actually undoing your pro-arguments regarding The Cloud. Which means your contradictions are starting to layer on top of each other.

    Quoting other people’s sales pitches of unproven products is also not adding any weight to your argument.

    Especially whilst your contradictions pile up and your refusal to address any of them grows increasingly apparent.

    If you’re going to quote anything made by anyone producing or selling a[n unreleased/unproven] product (as you have been for some time now) then you’re detracting more and more credibility from your argument.

    It’s great that you believe this sales patter. I’m very happy for you. But until any of these sales pitches prove their worth in the real world in a manner that is transparent and can be measured in a way that is meaningful to me, it’s all snake oil.

    It’s going to be interesting to see how many 3rd-party multi-platform games will run on dedicated servers on the PS4 vs XB1

    Only for those who have already believed and are echoing a sales-pitch. Even with dedicated servers – just like anything managed remotely, uncontrollable factors contribute to latency. And if any salesman in the world is telling you they’ve got that one licked, they’re lying to your face.

    @72 “Unproven” and “intangible” are two very different concepts.

    Having performance metrics for something contributes enormously to its tangibility. Having vacuous claims, on the other hand, does not.

    JM

    #74 1 year ago
  75. Lengendaryboss

    @71
    Great question, one which has not been answered. So phrasing it as a rhetorical question doesn’t help.

    How this got on to “Da power of da cloud” and dedicated servers, i don’t know, don’t care and i am willing to bet outside the people warped by “Da power of da cloud”, 1080, 60FPS fixations and being brainwashed by PR spiel on various sides don’t know either. Remember we are the vocal minority.

    Amazing how it went from all about the games to the above non-sense.

    @73
    Couldn’t that be applied vice-versa?

    #75 1 year ago
  76. monkeygourmet

    If we all followed that method of conversation things would be very boring until a product is actually released and had the relevant ‘tech tear down’. We’d then have to wait for it to bed in before anyone’s comments could be taken seriously.

    We’d also only listen to comments from people who had first hand experience from using the said device, as they would have first hand experience using it.

    Basically, things would be incredibly boring. It’s all speculation up till this point and that’s what makes forums like these fun.

    While ONLIVE failed commercially, I was certain the tech would not work at all on my internet connection. I sat down with the devs / marketing team and interviewed them at Eurogamer a few years back. I had a 45 minute demo and they gave me a staff membership (basically, I could play any game for free), and of course I had the free unit they gave out.

    I was certain that it only worked because of the closed system at Eurogamer and servers onsite. But, when I got it home it worked exactly the same on my humble internet connection.

    Now, while not being perfect, it was hugely impressive considering that was over a year ago and I didn’t even have a fast internet connection….

    #76 1 year ago
  77. Joe Musashi

    @75 “Couldn’t that be applied vice-versa?”

    It’s been applied vice-versa for the last few hours.

    Which is the fascinating contradiction that makes using the same logic FOR something and AGAINST something else so problematic.

    “Amazing how it went from all about the games to the above non-sense.”

    When you say that, it reminds me of a[n almost prophetic] forum topic someone started a while back…

    @76 “If we all followed that method of conversation things would be very boring until a product is actually released”

    If you mean: apply logic, knowledge and common sense over believing marketing talk, bias and make-believe then I call bullshit on that notion.

    JM

    #77 1 year ago
  78. Lengendaryboss

    @56
    I was right! Self-five ;)

    @77
    Okay then.

    #78 1 year ago
  79. monkeygourmet

    @77

    You apply the ‘logical conclusion’ selectively… I don’t understand the logic in when you choose to appear in threads? Can you explain that please. Surely, you’d be always calling out companies (they generally are in bullshit mode)?

    It tends to be more focused at posters on vg247.

    #79 1 year ago
  80. pcbros

    @74 – What contradictions? I said the cloud (Microsoft’s massive server structure) *could* benefit games. I’m simplying showing some possible benefits.

    You’re turning this into a technical discussion. I already said I’m not an expert.

    My point is that we shouldn’t dismiss the gaming advantages of having a more power server structure (won’t use cloud, since I know it’s offensive to some).

    “If you’re going to quote anything made by anyone producing or selling a[n unreleased/unproven] product (as you have been for some time now) then you’re detracting more and more credibility from your argument.”

    Then I guess we can’t believe anything Sony has said about the PS4? We should also reject any comments from developers stating the PS4 is more powerful as well.

    Anyways, it’s funny how all this started because I was agreeing that graphics aren’t everything in the next-generation. Some how this turned into technical debate on cloud technology.

    @75 – “Great question, one which has not been answered. So phrasing it as a rhetorical question doesn’t help.”

    The fact that they haven’t said anything with just weeks before release says a lot though.

    #80 1 year ago
  81. monkeygourmet

    @80

    You had the ‘cloud’ thing pinned on you IMO. Then you had to talk more about the cloud, all the while that reaffirms you are obsessed with ‘The cloud’. You can’t win! ;)

    #81 1 year ago
  82. Joe Musashi

    @79 I’m not even going to honour that little attempt to derail this into something it isn’t.

    @80 It’s supremely telling that, for the first time I a dozen or so posts where you even acknowledge your own argument about proven/theoretical that your immediate response is directed away from Microsoft and towards Sony.

    In every “Pro” argument that’s been presented you’ve argued in favour of Microsoft’s intangible, unproven and theoretical product. But when you’re against your target is set firmly on Sony.

    As I have repeatedly said in this discussion – all are unproven at this point. All.

    That you are asking for comparisons between one brand and another as your knee-jerk reaction to a consistent application of logic shows that you’ve not understood or acknowledged any time anyone has treated all equally on the basis of the unproven/theoretical criteria you based your argument around.

    And none of that is technical. But, even when technical responses have been proposed by me and others you’ve argued against them (implying that challengers to the unproven technology you have chosen to believe in are people that simply don’t know as much as those selling the product – though you apply that critique to yourself when you’re dismissing the proposals of others). You’ve chosen to throw technical articles more than once into your counterpoints – and now you’re saying it shouldn’t really be a technical discussion. That’s another contradiction.

    Your chosen topic of discussion revolves around technology. And the feasibility of its real-world worth will revolve around evaluting it on technical merits associated with it. We can’t do anything other than that because, hey, it’s all theoretical and unproven.

    So I struggle to see the point of introducing evaluation of incredibly technical products, then excusing your view (and, in doing so, devaluing comments from others) by downplaying the technical nature of the product. All that’s left with is the PR waffle from the manufacturers.

    Which, clearly, you believe in the spiel from one but not from the other but don’t see the contradiction in that appraisal and don’t want to discuss – or give credit to – the technical merits or drawbacks of one or other product.

    It boils down to “I believe this salesperson but not that salesperson”. Which I’ve already said is entirely your choice and I’m sure you’ll be happy with whatever outcome it brings to you.

    We’re going around in circles – you’ll want others to see it the way you see it. Some will, some won’t. But you’re not going to make others who hold logic, detail, technical realities and other real-world details above a sales pitch and quotes from various tech peddlars of products they’re trying to sell.

    They’ve sold to you. Excellent, they’ve done their job. But please don’t use their sales speil to try and convince me of something. Especially if you’re going to be so contradictory in the manner you go about it.

    As for your ‘inappropriate’ labelling about the cloud – you have brought up three different cloud products and evangelised all of them – linking to articles on cloud tech in the process. All of them are unproven and theoretical. It’s this contradiction of sponsoring the same type of product whilst contradicting your own point about unproven and theoretical that is why the discussing the merits/drawbacks of cloud tech in videogames has been directed at you. That and the fact that you’ve made a lot of posts in this discussion about it (duh!).

    It’s not exactly difficult to see how that’s played out. The only people who can’t see what’s printined in black and white in front of them are those that either don’t read or employ selective comprehension.

    JM

    #82 1 year ago
  83. Lengendaryboss

    @80
    The fact? hmmm Okay. But thats still an assumption and the question still isn’t answered.

    If it wasn’t happening they could easily say no.

    #83 1 year ago
  84. monkeygourmet

    @82

    I don’t really give a fig. It would have just been interesting to see why you are so selective and focused. One could argue this thread was derailed a long time ago.

    #84 1 year ago
  85. pcbros

    @81 – I give up. The cloud sucks, Microsoft sucks! Sony’s love for indies is pure, their loyality to gamers is true, if a game runs at 30fps it will be deemed better than running at 60fps and we shall all embrace the power of peer-to-peer gaming.

    All hail Sony! :P

    @83 – It’s a fact they haven’t answered the question. Atleast not publicly.

    If they were going with dedicated servers, wouldn’t it have been more advantageous to announce it? They could atleast say they were shooting for it.

    #85 1 year ago
  86. Lengendaryboss

    Nah i’ll ride it out: just let me tie up a few loose ends.

    @85
    Oh so they haven’t answered the question, thats the fact?
    “Will Call of Duty Ghosts run on dedicated servers for the PS4?” Asking a rhetorical question means you already know the answer which hasn’t been made available “publicly.” That doesn’t even make sense.

    Would it be advantageous? Yes but do you forget the special relationship Activision has with Microsoft? That can influence almost every decision about the game: E.g Where was this game shown off various times at? What versions are being advertised online? It would also be advantageous to let PlayStation owners know when that special relationship ends, alas thats not how things works.

    “I give up. The cloud sucks, Microsoft sucks! Sony’s love for indies is pure, their loyality to gamers is true, if a game runs at 30fps it will be deemed better than running at 60fps and we shall all embrace the power of peer-to-peer gaming.”
    http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2894418/picard-facepalm-o.gif

    #86 1 year ago
  87. pcbros

    @86 – Look, it’s all good. I just think things are not as one sided as people make them out to be. That’s just my point of view.

    Note to self: Think twice before posting in a Sony article.

    #87 1 year ago
  88. Lengendaryboss

    @87
    Okay now i’m out: http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/facepalm.gif

    #88 1 year ago

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