Xbox One: 10x more powerful than 360, more with cloud

Tuesday, 18 June 2013 11:02 GMT By Dave Cook

Xbox One was showcased on Jimmy Fallon recently, and during the show Microsoft’s Phil Spencer said the console was three times as powerful as Xbox 360. Given the leap of 512MB RAM to 8GB those maths simply don’t stack up. Spencer has now taken to Twitter to correct what he said.

The retraction came from a series of tweets with a fan:

So there you go, it was a mistake people. But still what do you think of claims that Xbox One can go beyond ten times the power of Xbox 360 using the cloud?

Meanwhile Don Mattrick has said Microsoft is “over-delivering” value with Xbox One, whatever that means.

Thanks OXM.


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  1. CyberMarco

    “The new Xbox One is going to be next best thing, after the invention of watercooler.”

    #1 2 years ago
  2. Aullah

    My gooooooooooooooooooooood…………. stop with the “cloud”.

    So many lies… I doubt they even know what is the truth.

    #2 2 years ago
  3. Pytox

    @2 but the cloud is rocket science, even steam can;t compete with that

    #3 2 years ago
  4. Belazur

    Microsoft should stop with the “Power of the Cloud = Xbox XXX more powerful” bullshit.
    Just admit, that the XboxOne is weaker than the PS4 and take care of your games.

    Currently, it makes Microsoft looking dumber and dumber.

    #4 2 years ago
  5. orakaa

    Yeah… right… how about 100x times, or 1 000 000x times?
    Those guys are a joke.

    1- IF the power is multiplied by the cloud, instead of displaying magic numbers, how about you PROVE it? Show us some comparisons, some benefits over the “standard experience”
    2- With Internet quality being so different from one city to another, how would that affect that “supposed” power?
    3- If “just” the cloud proved to be that powerful, why did Microsoft needed to get a $500 console? Do a streaming box, with just enough power to stream the games. Anyway, you already made the Xbox One a console that needs mandatory connection to the Internet

    As people say on the Internet “pics or it didn’t happen”. In that case, “pics” would be replaced by “video”, of course. Until then, I’d refer to this Digital Foundry article…

    #5 2 years ago
  6. twisted89

    “Given the leap of 512MB RAM to 8GB those maths simply don’t stack up.”
    Really? You do realise that shoving more ram into something doesn’t automatically make it x times more powerful?!

    #6 2 years ago
  7. kupocake

    You tell them Microsoft! Only the Xbox One has BLAST PROCESSING!

    #7 2 years ago
  8. Dave Cook


    Or something.


    #8 2 years ago
  9. Bomba Luigi

    There are no Clouds in the Sky these Days in my Region. Does the Xbox One still work without Clouds in the Heaven? What Happens to Clouds when they Die? Is there a Heaven for Clouds and does Clouds live there on top of other Clouds? Can my Dog have a Cloud?

    #9 2 years ago
  10. redwood

    Cloud24/7 :P

    #10 2 years ago
  11. Kanok

    Hey Don.

    ……..…../´¯/)………….. (\¯`\
    …………/….//……….. …\\….\
    ………../….//………… ….\\….\
    …../´¯/…./´¯\………../¯ `\….\¯`\
    .././…/…./…./.|_……_| .\….\….\…\.\..
    (.(….(….(…./.)..)…….(….(. \….)….)….).)
    .\…………….\/…/….\. ..\/……………./
    ..\…………….. /……..\……………..…/
    ….\…………..(………. ..)……………./

    #11 2 years ago
  12. CyberMarco



    #12 2 years ago
  13. sg1974

    If this cloud is so great and infinite in its power and possibilities MS, why are you selling a massive box filled with processors and a butt load of RAM? Why isn’t it a 100 buck thin client box? It’s not as if you are letting anyone run it offline….

    #13 2 years ago
  14. Units

    So this is where all the Sony fans hangout.

    #14 2 years ago
  15. sg1974

    @14 Bless.

    #15 2 years ago
  16. CyberMarco

    @ Units

    Are you the new WOE?

    Smells like alternate account…

    #16 2 years ago
  17. JGMR

    The only cloud that interest me is Fox Cloud.

    #17 2 years ago
  18. Fin


    Good point!

    #18 2 years ago
  19. sg1974

    @18 Of course, we all know the answer. ;^)

    #19 2 years ago


    Is he Fox McCloud’s cousin?

    #20 2 years ago
  21. sg1974

    I never thought we’d see anything to take over from

    but I think MS have done it.

    #21 2 years ago
  22. WENDiGO

    @22 There are fanboys here and there but most of the gamers on here are all around and you can’t blame them if the companies keep spitting BS. A lot of these guys are actually in the middle and they’re just giving their opinion on the topic (with jokes sometimes). If something a exec said is bad, you expect them to say a bunch of good stuff about what he said? Here’s the deal, sony is making the right moves, PC will be PC, Nintendo is lacking in third parties, microsoft just keeps hurting themselves with each statement. Reality.

    #22 2 years ago
  23. sg1974


    Welcome. This must be your first day here.

    #23 2 years ago
  24. Clupula

    @22 – Ah, so people aren’t rimming the holes of your favorite companies. How unfortunate that it gives you a sad.

    #24 2 years ago
  25. heroes159

    What is going on with VG24/7 Comment section. Everyone complaining complaining & we dont even know what the Fuck is that CLOUD they were talking. SO just hold on until we get the full detail about the CONSOLE before start bashing :) lol

    #25 2 years ago
  26. Dave Cook

    @27 how are we trolls? Don’t shoot the messenger.

    #26 2 years ago
  27. CyberMarco


    “SO just hold on until we get the full detail about the CONSOLE before start bashing”

    You are right on that, but personally I’m tired of hearing and reading all this crap from various xbots here. “Just wait untill Sony implements always-online”, “Xbone has teh Cloud” etc…

    I was never teaming with either Sony-team or MS-team, but after E3 I just wanted to get on the troll-wagon!

    #27 2 years ago
  28. Clupula

    @26 – It is interesting to see all these new faces suddenly pop up to defend the corporate slave masters at Microsoft’s new policies. I wonder if there isn’t someone sending them here, after they’re done with their Jack Tretton Two Minutes Hate, that is.

    #28 2 years ago
  29. bamn66


    #29 2 years ago
  30. Clupula

    @28 – You’re a troll because you didn’t check with super3000 first to find out which companies he favors first, so that you can never ever report anything negative on his favorites. Duh!

    If you only reported the negative things Sony did, you wouldn’t have this problem, Dave!

    #30 2 years ago
  31. zinc

    Its not trolling, its healthy cynicism .

    #31 2 years ago
  32. manamana


    #32 2 years ago
  33. Djoenz


    #33 2 years ago
  34. DeVitowned

    Sheep calling others sheep is hilarious. Trolls now are nothing like they were back in my day. Hell, they had to climb 15 miles out from under their bridge to talk about how shitty a console was.

    #34 2 years ago
  35. Clupula

    @34 & 36 – Okay, seriously, you can’t make comments like that and still refer to others as trolls, when you, yourself, are trolling.

    I’m sorry, but you’ve got to pay the troll toll to get into the boy’s hole, okay?

    #35 2 years ago
  36. stretch215

    This site has become a cesspool of platform loyalty and ridiculousness. New users sign up and the tin foil hats come out. How far this site has fallen. It’s a shame, really.

    #36 2 years ago
  37. ps3fanboy

    dumb, dumber, xbots… the micro$hafts sheeple!

    #37 2 years ago
  38. hitnrun

    This is so transparently the modern version of “secret plans for the expansion port that will make the console SUPER powerful” or “blast processing” it’s actually funny.

    It will never, ever make financial sense for a company to run off-site heavy processing for you. Ever. Think about the hardware required. All of that costs money. For each player. (Except for some procedural/social experimental games I could conceive of where the players would share the same results).

    #38 2 years ago
  39. DeVitowned

    FRANK! It’s BOY’S SOUL, not boy’s hole!

    #39 2 years ago
  40. Clupula

    @43 – I was saved by the strong, musky power of true love. I am THE DAYMAN!

    #40 2 years ago
  41. deraj

    When will the all-powerful cloud reveal the specs of the Xbone GPU & CPU? Sony told us theirs… put up or shut up MS.

    #41 2 years ago
  42. WENDiGO

    @36 You contradict yourself. Now you lost all credibility.

    #42 2 years ago

    It’s not trolling, it’s just tabloid journalism.

    (Uh oh… I hope I didn’t just sound like Shatner…)

    #43 2 years ago
  44. mightyhokie

    There are some very ignorant, immature, small minded, petty, and biased people who comment on this site.

    Is there any way to turn this comments section off? Seriously?

    I thought this was a gaming site. Its not. Most of these people don’t like games, consoles, or other gamers. Most of the people I’ve seen (not all of course) simply get off on criticizing everything and everyone they can…as if they can do better than MS, Sony, EA, etc. Hey, don’t understand how cloud computing works? Just call it stupid! See a game with a thousand things happening on the screen at once at 60 fps at full 1080p? What a piece of shit! This site if filled with gaming critics and stone throwers. Worse, the ‘gaming critics’ and ‘stone throwers’ are not educated about the gaming industry, nor how games are really made, nor what it takes to make a game, nor apparently, about how incredible the technology is in these systems, especially the Xbox One and the cloud technology that they are apparently using. Just because YOU don’t understand it doesn’t mean its stupid.

    No, this site is full of ‘know it all’ people who don’t know anything. You claim to be ‘gamers’ and ‘gaming is your life’. But not really. Espousing your opinion is your life. If you think you can do better why not make your own games and consoles? Why not? Because its easier to poke sticks at people who put it all out there and do it. Many of you throw stones at MS for their DRM policies when never really mentioning that they are basically the same as Sony’s. I’m not pointing fingers at either..i like both companies…but you only see what you want to see.

    If developers don’t make money on their product they go away. Is that so hard to figure out? They DESERVE to make money for their hard work. Read this article (which is pretty funny) At one point they mention how, a month before GTA4 was released 17,000 illegal downloads were made. Dude…17,000! Also notice “The Game Dev Tycoon’s developer, Greenheart Games, decided to leak a hacked version of the game, mere minutes after releasing the legitimate version, just to see what would happen. Sure enough, within one day, a whopping 93.6 percent of players were playing the illegal version of the game.” 93.6%!!!??? You can’t call yourself a gamer or a fan of the gaming industry which works so hard if you are against these people getting paid. Simple as that.

    But I digress. I try my best, my very best to not read these posts and feed the trolls. Especially since it seems that almost every one here is a troll. Not everyone, but the vast majority. Your minds are set. What you like rules. What you don’t sucks and will never be good. Beating other people down does not raise you up. If you can do better…do better. But from what have read most of you ‘gamers’ don’t even understand the very very beginning basics of creating a game, a console, a business, or even a freaking web site.

    Try thinking with your head instead of speaking with your heart.

    #44 2 years ago
  45. Roxor

    So MS changes how their console works and all the nerdlings freak out and call bs, like you are some insider with detailed knowledge of how it works, oh noes change lets all freak out.

    How about you let the details come out before you pretend to know everything? In their demo they showed how it can combine local processing to online processing to increase it dramatically. Might it flop? Sure. Might it succeed? Sure. But berating something you know nothing off makes you come off like a 8 year child.

    @42 – how do you know this? Is this pure rubbish or do you have hard evidence to back it up? The servers are provided to developers from MS, they’ve already said as much.

    #45 2 years ago
  46. Djoenz

    You can ramble all you want, but talk is cheap. People want to see results and that is impossible at this point. Combine all the statements from Microsoft since the reveal and you will have a picture of their vision.

    Even developers have criticism. Everybody. Even people tht were long time xbox fanatics. So who are you to complain about complainers?

    Get a grip.

    #46 2 years ago
  47. Maguire82

    Hell yeah give me that cloud power!I’m not sure how or why it works but I like the thought of all my games in one place and ready to be accessed from any where in the world mainly my house tho haha, lets see what the could brings to the table and no doubt the ps4 will have cloud power soon.

    #47 2 years ago
  48. Max Pain

    Hi !
    I never write but I reading this site everyday :)

    Im going to buy both Xbox one and PS4 .. because the games.. #dealwithit

    #48 2 years ago
  49. mightyhokie


    THAT is more like it. I have a 360 AND a PS3. I prefer gaming on my 360, true, but last night I was playing The Last of Us on my PS3. Why? Because I’m a gamer.

    Also the right attitude. Lets just see if it works first. From the stuff I’ve read, and from what I know and do in business, the concept is solid and it could really, really enhance and change gaming forever. Lets give it a shot. If it works the Sony fanboys will be screaming for it too.

    #49 2 years ago

    Gamers > trolls.

    #50 2 years ago
  51. Cobra951

    @37 (hitnrun): Yes, exactly my impression. “Blast processing” all over again. Notice how Microsoft hasn’t explained away the issue of massive lag, let alone talk about the financial viability of each player having his own private access to some sort of cloud supercomputing. I have yet to find anything about this “cloud processing” that doesn’t smell fishy.

    #51 2 years ago
  52. MCTJim

    Once again…someone miss states something and blamo..MS trash thread.

    I have and still am working within the engineering industry for IT for the last 25 years. Thats right people, I am in my 40′s. Been around since pong. I’ve owned every system..everyone.. I see the trends and no matter how much the consumer stamps its feet..guess what..Digital will be the norm within the next 3-5 years. Disagree all you want, but, its coming whether you want it or not. What are you going to do when you cant sell or trade your games the way you want to? You will still continue to get ripped off online as you did in your local gamestop or game center. No matter what, you will all be connected ONLINE in some come no one complains about their cell phones being always connected even when its off?

    What I do see is once the bitching about DRM settles and the dust clears and the conversion to digital is accepted by most, prices will drop, it may not be more than 10 bucks a game, but its still gonna be cheaper than bringing a physical game to market. Why does everyone care about who gets a cut of what sale? We as consumers dont see nor should we care about who gets what. What everyone should be screaming about is the stores that give you crap for trade in’s

    #52 2 years ago
  53. Clupula

    @45 – My god, you’re from the future!

    #53 2 years ago
  54. Clupula

    @51 – I rarely ever trade my games in.

    #54 2 years ago
  55. Cobra951

    @51: I’m in my 50s, and I was nearly an adult when pong came around. I’m a retired software engineer with decades of experience in real-time code and animation. If you really want to swing eDicks around, we can do that. It doesn’t give what you’re saying any validity.

    No one can force us to march like lemmings into a monolithic view of corporate-dominated commerce in gaming. If we do that, we only have ourselves to blame. Be that as it may, we certainly don’t have to do it today. We have choices today. We’ll have choices next year, and for years after that. Pay your money; take your choice. Don’t tell me I have to follow you, because I don’t.

    The purpose of phones is to communicate. They must be connected, or they’re useless. Game systems do not. They can be online or off, at our discretion, and function as intended. To force them online is arbitrary, and not in our best interest.

    #55 2 years ago
  56. zinc

    ^ Its nothing to do with the move to digital per se. Fact is if the xbone was launching with a Steam clone, it’d be a different story.

    But their not. Plus their message is confused & whiffs of bullshit.

    Power of the cloud my arse.

    #56 2 years ago
  57. ianbenoir

    Please correct me if i’m wrong, but..

    yeah right.. cloud power is limitless, since you’ll stream and barely use the console’s power. So there’s no point in actually using this to sell the xboxone. There’s also no point in charging an extra U$100 for promising a CLOUD SERVICE that will be paid aside the console.

    Meanwhile, the PS4 has alredy provided info about its overall GPU power of 1.84TFlOPS while Microsoft has kept quiet about the heavely rumoured and significant lower specs..

    Don’t get me wrong i love all the cloud stuff and i really think it is somehting to keep up with, afterall we have to move on. I just can’t see why Sony or any other console out there will keep away from it in the future. And remember.. there will be Gaikai on Ps4.

    So i’m just saying.. you can’t tell if a console is better or worse by saying that it will be more powerful in the cloud, because the cloud has nothing to do with the console power.

    Once again, please correct me if i’m wrong..

    #57 2 years ago
  58. MCTJim

    @54 please dont insult me with vulgarity. I have NEVER taken a swipe at anyone on this site. I was merely stating that its happening and is going to happen…look at all the Video stores that are no more..I am merely stating the trends and if people cannot see it, then most are turning a blind eye. The consumer drives the market, but if options are taken away which they slowly are, Digital will indeed be the norm.

    #58 2 years ago
  59. super3001

    careful. if you are pro-ms your account will be deleted.

    trolling ms is okay. defending gets you modded

    #59 2 years ago
  60. Beersup

    “massive lag”? Better be worried about shit I’m making up now.

    #60 2 years ago
  61. laughing-gravy

    If the leaked schematics of the GPU in both PS4 and X1 are right then PS4 is actually a lot more efficient at compute. The diagrams for PS4′s are pretty much spot on as Mark Cerny confirmed everything in an interview with Gamasutra. The PS4 diagrams don’t include the actual compute units just queues and pipelines.
    PS4 GPU
    X1 GPU
    Mark Cerny interview with Gamasutra
    The leaks come from Super DAE and have proven to be accurate.

    #61 2 years ago
  62. Maguire82

    @61 No one has even got there hands on this finished units yet so at this stage with unfinished hardware and software we truly don’t know where they stand, plus its about the games not just the power.

    #62 2 years ago
  63. laughing-gravy

    @62 The devs do have the finished kits and specs. Everything Sony showed at E3 was running on dev kits. Msoft’s were running on high end PC’s. As for games look at Sony’s dev talent. The Last of Us is one of the highest rated games ever. Then there’s Santa Monica, Media molecule, San Diego, Sucker Punch and new IP’s from Guerilla Naughty Dog etc. You’re right it is about games and Sony have plenty of talent.

    #63 2 years ago
  64. Maguire82

    @ 63

    #64 2 years ago
  65. fearmonkey

    @MCTJim – I have the same exact background as you, but I disagree that going digital means giving up consumer rights.

    Going strictly digital ruins the collector aspect of gaming, movie watching, and music listening. While I love Steam and it’s sales, I don’t like having all my eggs in one basket. and so I prefer sometimes having physical media if I can.

    #65 2 years ago
  66. laughing-gravy

    @64 The final Specs will have been nailed down for months now. Do you seriously believe that they can change the specs of a GPU in a couple of months? All that means is that MSoft haven’t been able to manufacture enough units because of problems with ESRAM. Production will have already begun in time for launch later this year. You can’t expect to launch at the end of this year without having final specs nailed down it’s impossible.

    #66 2 years ago
  67. lookingglass

    When will the tech illiterate crowd learn that the amount of RAM does not equal POWER.

    RAM is a quick-access staging area for data. It allows the GPU or CPU to write and read data much faster than writing to and reading from the hard drive. The actual POWER comes from the GPU and/or CPU.

    Sony is playing the crowd that doesn’t understand basic computing.

    At 1.8 teraflops, the PS4′s GPU can only utilize about 3GB of memory at 1080p. It’s impossible for it to work with a full 7GB for games at 176GB/s. It just isn’t fast enough.

    Take the highest end PC graphics card of today, the Nvdia Titan. 4 teraflops and 6GB of memory. It’s twice as powerful as the PS4, shouldn’t it have twice the memory? Nope. It’s twice as strong and struggles to utilize 6GB of RAM fully. At 1080p it doesn’t even get close to using 6GB.

    Sony clearly knows their audience, and their audience doesn’t really understand how a console or a PC gets its power.

    Then again, MS has left us all speculating. So it’s either lies or silence, take your pick.

    #67 2 years ago
  68. MCTJim

    @65..I dont disagree with your statement, unfortunately this is the way things are going. I prefer physical discs myself, but my rights as a consumer have been slowly chipped away of the last 8 years. Little by little.. Do i like it?..of course not, but its the way the makers of the tech are pushing us. You have the early adopters, then the techies, then the niche, then the consumer and we have arrived at that at this point in time. I see the uproar over this and I understand it, dont like it, but those who are making MS out to be the villan in all this are not seeing who is really driving us towards this. Its the makers of the software.

    #68 2 years ago
  69. MCTJim

    @67 you are indeed correct..but since I agreed with you, i will be made out to be an MS employee again.

    #69 2 years ago
  70. Maguire82

    @66 I’m not sure what they can and can’t change at this time obviously I know the cpu and gpu witch have been custom made wouldn’t change. But other parts they must have a time frame to be completed by and I can only go on what I read but if the last gen is anything to go by the ps3 was meant to be way more powerful than the 360 but you really could tell.

    #70 2 years ago
  71. laughing-gravy

    @70 That was because Sony made a right fuck-up of the cell and the memory architecture. The devs were also given crap tools to begin with. But take some time to look at the Last of Us, it’s a remarkable achievement on such old hardware.

    #71 2 years ago
  72. laughing-gravy

    @caitlin101 Take your spamming ass somewhere else and stop infecting this site with your shite.

    #72 2 years ago
  73. Lengendaryboss

    Do you really think she/he cares?

    #73 2 years ago
  74. fearmonkey

    @67 – uh…I have never heard Sony say that ram = power.
    I have heard them say they have extremely fast memory, and thats a good thing.

    “At 1.8 teraflops, the PS4′s GPU can only utilize about 3GB of memory at 1080p. It’s impossible for it to work with a full 7GB for games at 176GB/s. It just isn’t fast enough. ”

    Where did you get that from? Quantic Dream’s Dark Sorcerer tech demo was announced to use 4GB of the PS4′s memory

    You know whats funny, the Xbox 360 actually has 4GB of memory in it, at least in the slim and the new model, but it of course only uses 512mb.
    All the Xbone did was double that.

    #74 2 years ago
  75. laughing-gravy

    @74 Probably not. But it does get their posts deleted! :-)

    #75 2 years ago
  76. MCTJim

    @75 yes, but not at that speed of 1.8 teraflops. There are trade offs in ways the hardware is wired.

    Now this is just a rumor that I heard on another site, but when Sony found out that the Durango had 8 gigs of Ram, they just up and changed the memory chip to be 8 gigs too. That does not mean that it CAN use the 8 gigs. Again this was rumor at the time and I cannot find the article, but if I do I will post it here.

    #76 2 years ago
  77. nollie4545

    CPU potency and memory bandwith will not give you cutting edge graphics no matter how they are arranged.

    Pixel mangling power is down to GPU horsepower. These on die GPUs are just not going to cut it, I bet pound for pound they couldn’t outshoot a GTX 480.

    #77 2 years ago
  78. fearmonkey

    @77 – I should have been clearer with my point, my point was at the 3GB limit at 1080p, not the full memory limit. There is no 3GB limit.

    #78 2 years ago
  79. MCTJim

    @79..ah..I see :D

    oh and the article in my previous entry is on the other vg site :P

    #79 2 years ago
  80. fearmonkey

    @78 – I have a GTX 480 in one PC, and a ATI 7870 in another, and the 7870 beats it performance wise, and thats what the PS4 GPU is based on.

    The Xbox One is a gimped 7790 and you would be right, the 480 would be more powerful.

    #80 2 years ago
  81. CPC_RedDawn


    What the hell are you talking about. You are right in on one thing, more RAM does NOT mean more power as for your talk on how a GTX TITAN can’t fully use its 6GB VRAM is beyond a joke. Its not that the card can not handle it, as it sure as hell can use as much of it as is necessary to render the scene on screen. Its about settings, and resolution. Of course you will NEVER use the whole 6GB VRAM @ 1080p no game on this earth uses that much VRAM for such a low resolution. Slap a GTXTITAN on a 2560×1600 resolution monitor, enabled 8XSSAA, 16XAF, and maybe throw in a hi res texture pack as well and then come back to me and tell me how much VRAM is used. Its not that it can’t use it as it can use as much as it needs to, the bandwidth has nothing to do with how much a console or a PC GPU can use. The bandwidth is just how fast it can read/write data to the VRAM or in the PS4 case its unified GDDR5 memory which can be used ANY WAY the developer feels like it. Killzone Shadow Fall was only using 4GB RAM as they were only given DEV kits with 4GB RAM and at the time it was not unified either it was 1GB system memory and 4GB VRAM. Now they have 7GB RAM to play with for the CPU and GPU. 176GB/s bandwidth for PS4 does not dictate that it can only use a certain amount of RAM, its just how fast it reads/writes to it meaning it can SAVE anything it needs to in order to pull it back again to be displayed on screen. My HD7970 3GB at 1080p only pushes around 1.8GB usage in BF3 @ Ultra settings cause that is how much is needed by the game. Skyrim with over 80+ mods and massive texture packs uses around 2.9GB VRAM much more than BF3 due to its texture sizes being about 2x the size.

    #81 2 years ago
  82. harr0w

    Bang Hang on the money @67

    #82 2 years ago
  83. sg1974

    It’s amusing that people really believe MS is talking about 300,000 individual ‘physical’ servers. There is a very good reason that MS’ engineering manager Jeff Henshaw refused to answer when asked by a gaming writer at E3 if they were real or a combination of virtual machines. All he would go on record as saying was:

    “We haven’t gone into that level of detail yet.”

    Well quite.

    #83 2 years ago

Comments are now closed on this article.

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