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Rumour: Next Xbox won’t include disc drive, out 2013

Friday, 9th March 2012 09:35 GMT By Johnny Cullen

The next Xbox will be rid of CDs, instead opting to have no disc drive in it at all, a report from MCV this morning is claiming.

The trade site has been told the information by a source under the “the strictest NDA” it has ever signed. It does say that it will offer “compatibility with some sort of interchangeable solid-state card storage”.

It isn’t confirmed if this’ll come as standard or a format similar to SD.

MCV’s also reporting a 2013 launch as we’ve predicted. On its announcement timing, it added it could still be announced at E3 in June, although that is “less clear” now.

On the actual story itself, Microsoft has refused to comment on it, but added in a statement:

“Xbox 360 has found new ways to extend its lifecycle like introducing the world to controller-free experiences with Kinect and re-inventing the console with a new dashboard and new entertainment content partnerships. We are always thinking about what is next for our platform and how to continue to defy the lifecycle convention.”

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96 Comments

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  1. Patrick Garratt

    Let’s play “rumour”! I reckon there’s some truth in this. The 2012 reveal thing is completely wrong.

    #1 2 years ago
  2. Maximum Payne

    If that was rumor for Steambox I would say OK but for xbox not a single chance.

    #2 2 years ago
  3. CycloneFox

    If that’s true, i hope, they’ll have any other retail format or else the system will be a great fail.

    #3 2 years ago
  4. AbracadaverAK

    So this is how MS will stop people playing pre-owned games in the next generation of consoles!

    File this under “More bullshit rumours” with the rest, and it’s not because it can’t or won’t be true, it’s just that it doesn’t fucking matter.

    This is also the stupidest thing ever included after a rumour: “The briefings have been issued under what MCV’s source describes as “the strictest NDA” they have ever encountered.” That clearly worked.

    #4 2 years ago
  5. Joe Musashi

    It’s true. All games will be delivered via Aaron Greenberg‘s Twitter feed.

    JM

    #5 2 years ago
  6. Colin Gallacher

    It may be true, but are the UK’s ISP’s really going to support this? I’m not sure the UK internet, overall, is fast enough yet. (Let alone the bandwidth/allowance problems it would cause)

    #6 2 years ago
  7. pleasant_cabbage

    If true: can of worms meet tin-opener

    #7 2 years ago
  8. Patrick Garratt

    I think Microsoft has to bet on the internet. It’s always said it believes “discs go away,” and in two years time they probably will have done, pretty much. I can see this being true.

    Also, they really want to get away from “retailers” in the traditional sense. Why have a middle man making everything more expensive? It makes sense to me.

    It’s a bit like saying next generation music players have to be able to read CDs, I suppose. It’s time to move on, or at least it certainly will be by the end of next year.

    #8 2 years ago
  9. Colin Gallacher

    @8 Oh it makes perfect sense, I can just see BT shitting themselves when, for example, the next Grand Theft Auto comes out weighing in at a 12GB download.

    #9 2 years ago
  10. lama

    discs wont go away just because microsoft says so. it will fail miserably, just like windows 8.

    #10 2 years ago
  11. Razor

    More rumours. Just what we need.

    #11 2 years ago
  12. pleasant_cabbage

    Don’t think it’s just ms that would like to see discs (i.e the middle-men and second hand market) go. If they do it’ll be interesting to see the reaction to it (I.e just how important are trade ins for generating cash for new purchases etc).

    #12 2 years ago
  13. Benjo1981

    @8 I’m not sure this rumour necessitates them ‘betting’ on the internet: it also makes mention of compatibility with solid-state card storage.

    As most rumours are hardly ever 100% accurate, but often hold nuggets of truth, maybe the thing to note here is that maybe the next Xbox won’t be going with Blu-ray (as many have predicted it must).

    #13 2 years ago
  14. polygem

    i will be happily playing my old secondhand bought wii games on my wiiu tablet controller lying on the couch. can´t wait for that to happen.

    #14 2 years ago
  15. Patrick Garratt

    @13 – They’ve said in previous interviews that they see the internet as the future. If I remember rightly they said it on the subject of Blu-ray, and used it as an explanation for not including it in 360. They’ve said categorically that they see discs vanishing.

    Why would they put a drive in it? Solid state makes loads more sense. Discs are old tech. I can’t remember the last time I put one in my PC. The whole situation with discs and consoles is completely artificial.

    #15 2 years ago
  16. Gurdil

    Seriously? Well I know a lot of people want it to happen but I, for one, hate this fucked up thing about “uh, let’s do everything on the internet and, uh, let’s build it into the cloud cause that’s so cool you know”. If that’s true, well I already know I’m not buying it. Savings, yay!

    #16 2 years ago
  17. Patrick Garratt

    @16 – Why’s this so weird for people? Do you buy music on CDs? Or do you download and stream it?

    #17 2 years ago
  18. Johnny Cullen

    Don’t think I’d want this, tbh. If it went down the Vita route of offering retail/digital same day, that’d be awesome. But strictly download only? Hmm.

    Sure, we’ve downloaded games on PC, GoD on 360 and PSN, plus other media like music, movies and eBooks. But eschewing retail altogether? I like my boxes, needless to say.

    #18 2 years ago
  19. Gurdil

    @Pat when I can, I buy CDs. Yes, I like the “collection” side of it but that’s not the only reason I’m against this cloud-based bullshit. For starters, we’re not in Japan, Europe and the US have HUGE problems with the Internet. Don’t deny it, I’m sure you experience slow connections or no connections at all sometimes. So how are you gonna play when that happens? Then there’s this whole privacy problem. I know I’m sounding like an old fart right now but I do believe it’s a real issue. And last but not least, a lot of things are unclear about cloud-based services and the likes, starting with ownership.

    #19 2 years ago
  20. Benjo1981

    @16 – Why the attachment to physicality? The internet makes things much easier! I love the Cloud…I want to live in the Cloud…

    @15 – I want discs to go away – downloading is much easier – but I didn’t expect to see it in 2013 (unless the imminent demise of Game has nudged MS along [r.e the UK]).

    #20 2 years ago
  21. Patrick Garratt

    You can still buy boxes, from the sound of it. I reckon you’ll be buying them from Amazon, though.

    Personally, I want to download and stream absolutely everything. Physical media’s such a massive waste of resources.

    #21 2 years ago
  22. Patrick Garratt

    @19 – I hear all that, yeah, but if you can buy everything on sticks as well – as you can with Vita – then that covers all bases and gets rid of discs. You’re right about the US thing. Even in San Francisco last week, my line wasn’t the best.

    #22 2 years ago
  23. Gurdil

    @20,21 I guess if it’s a definite download I’ll be more okay with it (even if I’m not entirely happy with it) but streaming just won’t make it for me. As I said, too many problems and unknowns.
    Edit: @22 yes, if you can buy it on sticks, no problem. And once again, if you can download it and not just part of it and stream other parts, then it’s ok (not great though).

    #23 2 years ago
  24. Benjo1981

    @21 – So this isn’t really much of a big deal then: the rumour simply suggests that MS will be going for a card/cartridge-based system, instead of the widely-predicted Blu-ray. I’m still doubting it will be download-only.

    Although download-only is coming. I will live in that Cloud.

    #24 2 years ago
  25. TheBlackHole

    @17

    To be fair Pat, Music downloads didn’t really kick off properly (from a commercial perspective) until the infrastructure was there to support it, i.e reasonable internet speeds and a widely accepted service like iTunes.

    Huge areas of the UK still have internet speeds under 2mb, so downloading full games isn’t really viable. I had to leave my xbox on all night just to download a 6.5gb version of Mass Effect 1. I can’t see me doing that with next gen games at 30gb+.

    Also, unless you’re using Steam where they have deals with certain ISPs, you still often have to be concerned with download limits, which can be prohibitively expensive.

    There are a lot of hurdles to overcome in the next 18 months if digital only consoles are to be accepted by the mainstream. I think we have to have a hybrid generation before it will become digital only.

    #25 2 years ago
  26. Patrick Garratt

    Yeah, I guess it’s not that mental, is it? The Flash stuff is a fail-safe so you can still buy it if you have rubbish download speeds. I suppose it’s a transition plan to move away from physicality completely. Over the course of the machine’s life people will just stop using the sticks.

    I hope.

    #26 2 years ago
  27. Gurdil

    @25 Yes, I didn’t even think about the time it took to download a game. That’s a big problem too, you’re right.

    #27 2 years ago
  28. Gurdil

    It’s a bit off-topic but I think I sound like an old man refusing evolution of technology here. That’s not the case. Not just cause I’m 24 but also because I LOVE technology. I just don’t think everything is automatically going in the right direction and “The Cloud” seems to me like a good “bad example”. Sorry for the off-topic but I wanted to clear things up a bit.

    #28 2 years ago
  29. Patrick Garratt

    @25 – You’re right about all that, and I do agree that there needs to be a hybrid period.

    But the thing I find odd is that there are 40 million people happily downloading from Steam and making Valve and Gabe massively rich but when it comes to console downloads people struggle to accept it. Like yeah, speeds to need to get faster on Live and PSN, but I live in the middle of nowhere and I can pull down full games on my PC in half a day with no real problem. If I have to wait for days for a disc to arrive from a store like Amazon, surely it’s better to wait eight hours, or whatever, to download it from Live?

    #29 2 years ago
  30. vodka-bull

    So how are we supposed to put in our Blu-ray discs?

    #30 2 years ago
  31. Patrick Garratt

    @30 – Ha! Good point :)

    #31 2 years ago
  32. CptKurk

    Indeed. If the next Xbox comes without a disc drive but the PS4 (or whatever) sports a Blu-ray (or whatever) slot, I’m probably going to switch camps to Sony (or whoever).

    #32 2 years ago
  33. brokenkey

    @Pat

    You’ve changed!

    http://www.vg247.com/2011/09/08/the-day-i-realised-always-on-drm-moaners-have-a-point/

    #33 2 years ago
  34. manamana

    @Gurdil if you have no interest in cloudstorage, dont use it. Personally, I see it as an absolute benefit for my everyday life. So an external drive, again. I mean, we do need backwards compatibilty. I like the idea, of downloading or streaming my games. Thing is: if the ‘net is not working, how am I supposed to play?

    #34 2 years ago
  35. djhsecondnature

    @29 – Whilst that’s true Pat, 40mil is the minority of the gaming market. I wonder if the “casual” market would adopt a system like this? Just sounds like a way to close up your potential market share at the moment.

    #35 2 years ago
  36. Patrick Garratt

    @33 – True! It’s never gone down again since then, so now I’m fully committed to the internet dream :D

    #36 2 years ago
  37. TheBlackHole

    @29

    I agree, but you are talking about a WHOLE different demographic there. The average Steam user is *probably* much more technically astute than your average console gamer (and I’m a console gamer through and through btw). They just ‘got with the program’ sooner than the general public. I don’t think digital will necessarily work for 8 yr old Timmy, whose parents don’t like putting their credit card details into a cumbersome console interface for every game purchase. They still want to buy a physical product for their kid.

    It’s also the same issue music had, in terms of accepting the transition between physical ownership and digital ownership. Many people don’t realise that you don’t own your Steam games, they’re use is just licensed, and that they can be turned off with the flick of a switch. Technically the same is true for boxed, but no-one is going to come to my house and take my discs away.

    Lastly, it’s MUCH easier to manage downloads on a PC than on a console – the current gen’s interface just isn’t built with digital in mind, despite MS’s reasonable attempts to rectify it mid-gen. I think that this incredibly important to the uptake of digital content. Look how easy it is to buy and manage your music on an iPhone.

    #37 2 years ago
  38. Patrick Garratt

    @35/37 – I reckon the general consumer is very well used to the internet now. It’s funny. I just got back from a US trip, and I was stunned at just how many people use Netflix over there. It’s just normal now.

    Yeah, there may be problems with general acceptance, but surely that’s stemmed by letting people buying a physical copy if they like? And I’m assuming the interface will be built around managing downloads. I guess the Steam download system is basically just a list that shows you how fast things are coming down. It can’t be that hard?

    #38 2 years ago
  39. polygem

    i want to get rid of game cases too but i am not happy about the pricing of digital media yet. it is just too expensive – it is still more expensive to rent a movie on itunes than going to the store and get a physical copy of the movie. i pay 69,99 Euro for halo reach on games on demand and 25,99 Euro for a brand new copy in the shop. i mean that makes a difference! also i don´t want to buy everything without the option to trade it in.
    i might buy a game i am not superinterested in and sell it after i played through it or even wait and buy a cheap copy and then resell that one again. it´s great for some games. i cannot do that if i buy digital only, so it is just limiting my options.

    #39 2 years ago
  40. TheBlackHole

    “It can’t be that hard?”

    You’d think so, wouldn’t you. But then you see the PSN :p

    #40 2 years ago
  41. polygem

    ouch

    #41 2 years ago
  42. djhsecondnature

    @38 – A service like Netflix where you pay a very cheap one-off fee and have access to stream all of those movies is very different to purchasing expensive games online and downloading them, with you technically only owning a licence. Of the people that use these services (Netflix, LoveFILM, Hulu, etc), how many also download films? I suspect very few.

    The reason they also work is that there’s choice. You can stream a select catalogue of films for a very cheap price, or go and buy the film online or in a store.

    The iTunes Store opened in 2003 but only this year (nine years later) did music download sales overtake retail sales. Expecting the same for a medium that is far more expensive and potentially limited to just one platform is incredibly risky.

    #42 2 years ago
  43. aseddon130

    with Game and Gamestation dying there’s less place for games to be bought, so i think this will be the next step of going digital.

    #43 2 years ago
  44. Patrick Garratt

    @40 – *wince*

    #44 2 years ago
  45. daytripper

    i think they will go retail and download, same day releases on both templates for purchase. i dont think they will go cartridge though, that would be too expensive surely?

    #45 2 years ago
  46. Erthazus

    Impossible.

    Why?

    PSP Go bombed.

    you can’t just release a new console without discs. Well, Ms can be a bit smarter and release two versions:

    1) Digital only
    2) Digital and + Disc Drive.

    @Pat, First of all, your PC have much better OS than your PS3 or 360 so naturally you won’t use discs.
    But you forgot that we are talking about gaming machines and next gen that will require some sexy Power and of course gigantic HDD.
    Do you believe that it will be easy to download a game that is 30-40GB? Especially at launch?

    #46 2 years ago
  47. Anders

    Hard drive space probably won’t be a problem by then, but bandwidth definitely will be. Can you imagine one million players trying to download 60 GB’s of Grand Theft Auto 6 on day one?

    #47 2 years ago
  48. Noodlemanny

    I’m not really sure where I want this to go. There is the simple pleasure of having the physical thing in your hand, opening it, smelling the brand new smell and reading the manual which obviously you don’t get with download. Then there’s data space, one of the things I didn’t really like about the Vita was that the drives didn’t get really big and I buy ALOT of arcade and full games online so I use alot of space. I’m sure that Microsoft will make the storage devices big but its always kinda lingering at the back of my mind.
    If we go all digital I won’t really be that bothered and may embrace it but I’m a little apprehensive especially as my bandwidth is only just over 2mb.

    #48 2 years ago
  49. Benjo1981

    There are genuine and significant hurdles to be overcome with regard digital-only but I wouldn’t bet against Microsoft being the one to overcome them in some way; if anybody has innovated in the online console space, it’s Microsoft…and they seem willing to take risks in this area.

    They did it with the introduction of Live..and look how that panned out..

    #49 2 years ago
  50. ManuOtaku

    I hope they go with the cartridge rute, but cloud only i hope not because i dont like digital only gaming consoles at all, the main reasons: the internet downloading capacity and/or the internet speeds for the downloads, storage capacity of the digital console per user,the possibility of any kind of hackers activity on the accounts, and what happens when the supplier shoutdown the older servers like the multiplayer xbox games, but not only with multiplayer but with singleplayer too; also i will like to add the ownership of the games per se, right now we have linceses with the physical media, that allows the user to use the physical media under certain and very especific conditions, but at the end the user can do a lot of things with their physical copy (sell, loan, give away, etc), and for that you have the control of the game, but with digital only, they have the control they can cancel or block your account for any reason they see fit, therefore you can lose all your games in a blink of an eye.

    So to sum things up, i think if the manufacturers (nintendo, sony, microsoft), want to go this rute, they need to think and fix a lot of things that prevent this to be a full fledge reality, at least in my eyes because theres a lot of concerns, like the ones i mentioned before, and i think there will be more, the ones i couldnt think of right now.

    #50 2 years ago
  51. drewbles82

    Huge fail if true. Uk has terrible internet speeds. We have 4gb limit a day, go over it, speed is cut to dial up so for us would take over a week to actually get a game instead of walking into a shop 20min walk away.
    Plus u run more risk of harddrive fails. Imagine you have like 30 games stored on your harddrive and for whatever reason it stops working.
    Take forever to redownload them all. And what happens if for some reason you loose your profile, hacked or banned for the wrong reason, you loose all your games.

    #51 2 years ago
  52. G1GAHURTZ

    I don’t see iPod/iPad/iPhone users complaining about a lack of discs.

    Plus, if you have a 4GB limit, you should change ISP if it’s a problem. I had virgin cable broadband, and I had no such limit. Trust me, sometimes I’d download about 6GB in a day while still gaming online, and I saw no difference.

    (by the way, I can’t be bothered to read the previous comments, so I don’t know if anyone’s already said this.)

    #52 2 years ago
  53. silkvg247

    You think they care about the UK? Course they don’t, and who can blame them? We’re eons behind on internet speed thanks to our fucked up decrepid government who are too busy hading out £££’s to the people who least deserve it.

    It’s one of the reasons most modern hardware just lacks any real oomph for me when released lately. e.g. Vita 3G. Yeah, I can’t even browse the internet on my bloody phone because most places 3G won’t connect. It’s just a joke. We’re in the stone age.

    #53 2 years ago
  54. daytripper

    @52 good point GIGA

    #54 2 years ago
  55. djhsecondnature

    @52 – There’s a HUGE difference between a device that sits in your pocket and one that sits under your TV.

    Even then, how many people that have iPods still buy CDs? A lot it seems as download sales only overtook retails sales of music this year in the US.

    Regarding changing ISPs, how many normal people would do that just to play video games? Seems like a sure fire way to crush you potential target market.

    #55 2 years ago
  56. G1GAHURTZ

    Thanks daytripper.

    Actually, I’ve just skimmed the other comments, and I have to say I agree with Pat about the future of gaming not being storage media focussed.

    I don’t think storage media (discs, cartridegs, SD cards, etc) will all go away completely, but I can see them being an alternative for the minority, rather than the standard.

    People who talk about safety issues with non-physical media are also being slightly misleading, anyway.

    You could ask me what happens if you lose your HDD or it gets damaged, but what happens if you lose all your discs, or they get scratched?

    Can you simply login to your account and download them again?

    Of course not.

    You need to fork out another £20-40 for a brand new copy.

    And again, along with my point about iTunes, Pat makes an excellent point about the millions of Steam users, too.

    #56 2 years ago
  57. Erthazus

    “I don’t see iPod/iPad/iPhone users complaining about a lack of discs”

    Because there is no problem downloading “something” that is 40-50 mb.

    We are talking about Next Generation and Next Generation games that can have 30-60 GB of space if not more considering that somewhere in the future there will be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution

    4K stuff that requires 100 GB of space at minimum to produce 3 hours of video.

    Microsoft won’t go digital. Even their PC’s don’t go digital and still require disc for Windows and drivers.
    Windows 8 (future) still require CD Drive and will continue to require it. Microsoft is not Apple for sake.

    #57 2 years ago
  58. G1GAHURTZ

    There’s a HUGE difference between a device that sits in your pocket and one that sits under your TV.

    Such as?

    The ones in your pocket are way more expensive than the ones under your TV, so it can’t be value.

    Regarding changing ISPs, how many normal people would do that just to play video games? Seems like a sure fire way to crush you potential target market.

    I disagree.

    If there’s a demand, some ISP will step in to offer its services. Plus I believe that BT is currently working on getting fibre optic to most of the country within the next few years, anyway.

    #58 2 years ago
  59. lama

    i just recently found out my sister plays games on the iphone, her 5 year old son too. they dont play call of duty, crysis or halo. they play angry birds, tetris or plants vs zombies.

    #59 2 years ago
  60. djhsecondnature

    @58 – For starters, how many people would be happy having a device the size of a Walkman in their pocket? That’s not an issue for an under the TV device.

    As for ISPs, the average consumer will not switch ISPs for gaming. No way.

    #60 2 years ago
  61. daytripper

    @58 yes they are, my brother works for BT at high level and keeps saying gaming will go digital download plus retail, BT are working to improve the situation but if they are successful or not is another matter.

    #61 2 years ago
  62. G1GAHURTZ

    @60:

    I don’t understand your point. What does the size of the product have to do with a person’s willingness to download content rather than buy physical media from a store?

    You could argue that the “average consumer” (whatever that is…) wouldn’t change ISP for gaming, but on the flip side, what percentage of the “average consumer” would download more than 4GB per day?

    Is an “average consumer” a casual, who only buys 1 or 2 party games a year? If so, they don’t need to worry about daily download limits. Is it a typical Steam user, who’s been pre-downloading 4-5GB games on a regular basis over the last few years? If so, then they haven’t had a problem before, so why should there be one now?

    #62 2 years ago
  63. ManuOtaku

    #62 this is one of the reasons
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/01/thought-do-we-own-our-steam-games/#more-91880
    And my previous comment
    I hope they go with the cartridge rute, but cloud only i hope not because i dont like digital only gaming consoles at all, the main reasons: the internet downloading capacity and/or the internet speeds for the downloads, storage capacity of the digital console per user,the possibility of any kind of hackers activity on the accounts, and what happens when the supplier shoutdown the older servers like the multiplayer xbox games, but not only with multiplayer but with singleplayer too; also i will like to add the ownership of the games per se, right now we have linceses with the physical media, that allows the user to use the physical media under certain and very especific conditions, but at the end the user can do a lot of things with their physical copy (sell, loan, give away, etc), and for that you have the control of the game, but with digital only, they have the control they can cancel or block your account for any reason they see fit, therefore you can lose all your games in a blink of an eye.

    So to sum things up, i think if the manufacturers (nintendo, sony, microsoft), want to go this rute, they need to think and fix a lot of things that prevent this to be a full fledge reality, at least in my eyes because theres a lot of concerns, like the ones i mentioned before, and i think there will be more, the ones i couldnt think of right now.

    #63 2 years ago
  64. Deacon

    @ G1GA – “I don’t see iPod/iPad/iPhone users complaining about a lack of discs.”

    No, but then you don’t see them playing any games that are larger than perhaps a few hundred Mb (and I think I’m being generous there). Correct me if I’m wrong. Except for maybe Infinity Blade.

    I for one really wouldn’t miss retail game stores. They’re fun to browse, but I nearly never purchase anything.

    So long as I can still scour the internet for the best price on whatever game I am looking to buy, then I’m happy.

    I will NEVER part with my PS1 Final Fantasy discs. I just couldn’t.

    I buy quite a lot from PSN, but I know someday I’ll lose it all.

    #51 is right, the UK cannot support a download-only system. Not for another few years at least (I reckon 5 or 6).

    If MS were foolish enough to release their next console as download-ONLY, I’ll eat a fucking baby.

    If they rely on DL’s AND some sort of media card, then that’s perfectly fine by me, and no babies will be eaten.

    #64 2 years ago
  65. reask

    For the comment on parents been worried about putting there cc details up.
    Surely there would be an option to buy a code like you presently can do on live and psn.

    So new game comes out and parent goes in to store and buys the code for the new game and kid just does the rest.

    #65 2 years ago
  66. G1GAHURTZ

    @63: That Steam banning highlights an issue with download only content, but I think that this sort of thing is very rare. Just like having all of your discs somehow damaged in some freak accident.

    Cartridges/HD cards are a clear working alternative do discs here, as well. So instead of going to the shop to buy a disc in a box, you take your HDD/phone/SD card or whatever to the store and download it over WiFi, like Apple stores have also been doing for years.

    This also covers peoples home download limits, and would probably also keep retail happy in a number of different ways.

    As for the ownership issue, then I agree that there’s always a feeling of concern when someone has the ability to stop you from using your product without having a justifiable reason. For me, this is the only real negative to having downloads over discs, but like I said before, I think in real world terms, anyone actually losing their licences for no reason is very rare and usually makes (gaming) headline news. For that reason, I don’t really let it worry me.

    @64:

    Sure, but I’m not only talking about games. iTunes also offers movies, for example, that can be between 1 and 2GB each.

    Plus, the point was a general one with regards to how many millions of consumers are already waving goodbye to physical media.

    I don’t see why gaming should stay in the past.

    #66 2 years ago
  67. DSB

    Sadly it’s not inconcievable that pressure from people with an irrational love of discs might make them reconsider, but if true it’s a great step forward.

    Discs are just wasteful pieces of crap in my opinion. I thought it was pretty cool back when games came in elaborate boxes, almost the size of a vinyl LP, and you could pretty much count on developers throwing in something extra, but those days are long since gone. Beyond very few games being put out, it’s just junk.

    I really can’t take peoples paranoia seriously either. “All the digital distributors just want to sell us games so they can abuse and torment us by taking them away”.

    Honestly, how stupid can you get?

    You’re protected by exactly the same laws and standards as you are when you buy in a brick and mortar store, of course depending on the country where you’re buying. The fact that it makes it dawn on you, that you don’t actually own any of the games on your discs either isn’t a very good reason to oppose it. Transparancy isn’t a bad thing.

    #67 2 years ago
  68. ManuOtaku

    #66 I agree maybe iam worrying a bit much, but the thing is, if this happened just to one person, one person alone, i might ask theres is the possibility that this will happen to any of us at any given time?, i think theres a chance, a little one i grant that , but even still is there, therefore it concerns me nontheless, so if thi isnt address yet by manufacturers and the industry as a whole, well dont establish it until everything is well thought, to assure the best possible outcome for the consumers, that it should be the main focus here.

    #68 2 years ago
  69. ManuOtaku

    DSB “The fact that it makes it dawn on you, that you don’t actually own any of the games on your discs either isn’t a very good reason to oppose it”
    Yes is true i dont own it, but they cannot control the physical media neither, therefore i can use it as i see fit, but with digital only they have the control, and maybe they will be transparent about it, but they hold the plug on the account, and if the consumer service is like we have today with the manufacturers, i dont want that power on them, because most of the times when an user has some problems with their products, it pass moths or years before you have a proper solution for that said problem, so also think of that too, and take in consideration that this didnt happen to me at all, but i feel empathy for those who did, because in the end theres a chance it will happen to any of us too.

    #69 2 years ago
  70. McLovin85

    The only reason why i don’t think this will happen is because of one factor; that is the movie industry.
    It’s all well and good the games industry moving leaps and bounds ahead but if PS4 or Next-Box want to maintain their image as being an ‘all-in-one’ entertainment hub then that will go flying out the window if either of them choose not to have disc-drives in them.
    People might say that streaming/renting movies with services like Netflix and Lovefilm will continue to rise and i don’t deny that but i think that unlike the games industry a large number of people will still always want their movies to be on a disc format in order to appreciate the higher quality image etc. and to own them.
    Releasing a separate crappy add-on device that can read discs like what Xbox did for HD-DVD just doesn’t look attractive and won’t appeal to everyone.

    #70 2 years ago
  71. DSB

    @69 Yes they can. They can demand that you deliver the game back to them, and they can break down your door if you refuse.

    It’s a fair point about the service, but personally I’ve never had a problem with Steam that wasn’t solved in 24 hours. With services like Origin, it’s anybody’s guess.

    But ultimately none of them have ANY interest in keeping people from their games or banning someone for no reason.

    Unless you’re directly planning to abuse the service, you have nothing to worry about.

    The fact that RPS uses a guy as an example, who was actively engaged in violating the TOS, and then somehow insiniuates that this is a greater problem with digital distribution, is just mindless fearmongering and piss poor propaganda on behalf of conspiracy fanatic John Walker.

    Name me a service or license where you’re allowed to violate the TOS and not be disciplined? Can you piss on the seats of a bus and not be thrown off?

    Well, that’s just the risk you take when you ride the bus. Pissing on the seat WILL get you thrown off. It’s a dangerous world out there.

    #71 2 years ago
  72. ManuOtaku

    #71 I will not argue about the US, because i dont know their laws, but in all the countries all over the world, With all due respect i doubt it DSB.

    #72 2 years ago
  73. DSB

    @72 It’s not just the US, it’s every country that’s actively enforcing international treaties aimed at protecting intellectual property.

    So basically every country that doesn’t openly condone things like piracy.

    In Asia people have their doors beaten down on a daily basis and anyone found in the location are beaten before the cops drag out any copyrighted material they may be engaged in copying (a violation of the license attached to a physical piece of media).

    #73 2 years ago
  74. ManuOtaku

    DSB but thats in the case if i did violate the license, therefore they need to prove the act per se, if i dont violate the license, then they cant do it

    #74 2 years ago
  75. DSB

    @74 And the exact same thing applies when you use a digital service. They aren’t allowed to monitor your PC, and the police who can, still need probable cause, to get a warrant to do so. In the US that’s the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution. Illegal search and seizure.

    #75 2 years ago
  76. ManuOtaku

    DSB i dont know if i didnt made myself understood, but in digital service the control is done in other way i guess, for example they can block the account without given me the benefit of the doubt or without given any explanation at all, they block it then i need to start my rebutal in order to gain my access again, it is a process that can last a lot and a one that will need a lot of effort in my part, like the case with the rockpaper situation, that means they act (digital service) and then i will need to do my process, rather than with the physical media they need to do all the legal paperwork first and prove the probable cause, then they act and i mean they take the physical media, so the situation is rather different and in my eyes the difference is the provement of the probable cause which give at least the benefit of the doubt becuase they need to prove it as a fact an not like a possibility under their understandingor willing.

    #76 2 years ago
  77. DSB

    Again, you cannot possibly use hypotheticals as an actual argument.

    By that logic, you could be hit by space debris every time you step out of the door. The fact that no one has ever been struck by a falling sattelite doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen, they crash every month.

    You could even be hit inside your own home. So then the only way to avoid it would be to live the rest of your life safely underground, because of what “could” happen.

    They’re not likely to block your account without reason. My brother got VACS banned for being on a server that got hacked by another guy. That was a genuine flaw in the system, as opposed to John Walker standing up for a guy who’s actively abusing the service. And in that case, it was in fact a false positive based on a real hack, that happened to affect everybody else in the lobby, leading the system to register those people as cheaters as well.

    Again, I’ve never had any trouble with Steam that wasn’t solved within 24 hours. The most horrible thing that has ever happened to me in roughly 10 years of being registered to the service, is my creditcard being declined when I was using it from the US. That was cleared up within hours of posting a ticket.

    #77 2 years ago
  78. ManuOtaku

    DSB Is not hypothetical it did happened, and i agree he was abusing the service, but that was not the reason they stated for blocking his account, as in fact they did stated other reasons without indicating said reasons, they did block it period, when the site reporter ask further questions, they did re-estiblished his account, therefore which was the criteria for blocking and unblocking the account?, and more especifically under whos criteria?, thats my main problem with this issue the ambivalence of the criteria, therefore for me in this case there are a lot of concerns to just simple overlook it, or dismiss under the an “only one case” label.

    #78 2 years ago
  79. OlderGamer

    One time use, single install game cards inbound. Buy them at the store, install them on your systems HDD, throw the card away. Or possibly keep the card as it will have a CD Key Code on the card that must match up to your hardware in order to work. Like an authenticator in wow. But it won’t work on someone elses system. Once installed your account will show the liscence belonging to you. If you then need to redownload the game you can do so at that point.

    Only two reasons to even have the cards, one is so the game store fronts have something to sell. Otherwise they don’t carry your hardware or accsesories. And second is for gamers w/o great ISPs to be able to get their games.

    This is clearly aimed at killing used game sales.

    I have no doubt that MS would do something like this. Physical media is a dying breed. Keep in mind that while Sony felt online gaming was years off, MS put a (Broadband no less) Internet port in every xbox one it made. I hate MS, with a passion, more so all of the time, but they almost always are thinking forward. In five years time this might look like a genius move from a biz stand piont.

    Simple fact is that the games industry has to fight back against gamestop and the army of retail stores that make billions selling games that only they profit from(second hand games).

    #79 2 years ago
  80. DSB

    @79 The guy abused the service, and he still didn’t get permanently banned. It was a fair and reasonable process. No one lost their games, and a guy who systematically violated the TOS got punished.

    Where is this terrible problem that you see?

    Honestly, it feels like people are scared of the dark here. I can mention 50 ways to get injured just on my way to get groceries. It doesn’t mean I’m going to stop buying groceries, because none of those things are likely to happen.

    You’re scared based on a fearmongering article written by an idiot who’s more than slightly eager to make the case for conspiracy. If you read the actual transcripts (supposing that they’re real, it’s all text on pastebin, not actual screenshots) he was in fact told why his account was shut down. He was “buying” (actually being paid to gift) so many games that Steam support thought his account had been breached. That’s standard procedure anywhere.

    If I spend more than 4000 dollars on my creditcard outside the country in the span of a month, people at that company get suspicious as well. Does that mean I shouldn’t use a creditcard?

    It’s just stupid. The license is the same, the delivery is different and yes, you are subject to the terms of the service you use. But as long as you aren’t there to do harm or violate the service, what’s the risk? It simply doesn’t exist.

    You’re talking about a single case, involving actual abuse as well as suspicious activity. Steam has ten million accounts. Find me the innocent victims.

    #80 2 years ago
  81. OrbitMonkey

    This is one way to prevent the shoddy disc-drive’s the origional 360′s had I guess ;-)

    Anyway doesn’t the Vita use this system anyway? Why the fuss over a home console using it?

    #81 2 years ago
  82. ManuOtaku

    The terrible problem i see is the criteria for the blocking of the account, they didnt stated the real reason at all, they did block it without any explanation, then all the sudden they unblock it, so my main issue is the ambivalence of the criteria for this; add to that also the fact that in the end theres two licesens here, the one for the games and the other for the account, therefore the two right now, the way i see it, are connected, therefore they could block an user account for future games but for old games as well, of course this is as far as i know maybe iam wrong here if it is so please tell me, if thats the case well in my eyes if manufacturers really want to go that route they should need to separete the two, i mean like the physical copy, i can have my account block right now on the PSN and the XBOX, but i can still play my old games, without any new update of course. which is very different with what did happen in this case, so the provider of the service have the control of the games and the account, not like in physical media

    #82 2 years ago
  83. DSB

    @82 Yes they did.

    From pastebin:

    4:30 PM Local Washington time, December 31st 2011 – this is DURING the Steam Sale, on the last day of the year, most likely the busiest possible time of the year at Valve, and a holiday in a lot of places:

    “We are investigating this issue further. As soon as we have more information, we will update your ticket.”

    The guy responds to this ticket at 2 AM local Washington time, on New Years Eve.

    January 1st (New Years Day) is a holiday in most countries, Steam responds January 2nd 4:30 local time:

    “According to our records, you have made a large amount of gift purchases on the Russian Storefront. Additionally, these purchases of high value items were all gifted to many various users. Please confirm these purchases and explain this activity.”

    He responds 22 minutes later.

    Steam responds 30 minutes after that:

    “In order to protect the account holder and the associated software, the account was disabled until we could verify ownership.”

    Once everything is cleared up, he gets this:

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/12/jan/vban1.jpg

    How on earth is that not a reasonable and timely response? Microsoft takes a month to reopen an account. Steam likely has millions of requests during a sale like that, but they STILL manage to get back within half an hour of the guy writing them.

    Once again you’re using the word “could” to describe imaginary situations, based on little more than paranoia and a John Walker article. A lot of things “COULD” happen, as stated above.

    Aliens could destroy the earth, that could happen. Is that something you’re scared about too?

    It’s simple: If this is meant to pose a serious threat to users, where is the example of this happening to an innocent victim?

    #83 2 years ago
  84. Da Man

    The X360 drive was no more shoddy than the PS2 one. Actually, I never heard about games breaking the laser on 360. On the other hand, google ‘clicking noises ps2 gta smackdown’.. Went through two of those pos myself.

    #84 2 years ago
  85. ManuOtaku

    DSB according with the report:

    ” Gimperial’s case wasn’t clear-cut. He’s in Russia, and openly admits that he’s gifted games to people in exchange for money, to help them get them cheaper. Not frequently, and it’s certainly not something Valve could have known he had done when they banned him. And he states that he mostly gifted games for free, just as a favour. He acknowledges that gifting in exchange for a financial payment is against Valve’s TOS, and doesn’t protest innocence. But the strange thing is, while Valve wouldn’t tell him what he did to receive the ban, he says they did tell him that it wasn’t because of gifting”

    They did block his account without explaining what he did, but they did tell him that it was for gifting, which he did and is again the TOS apparently, therefore they did not explain the exact reason and it wasnt for violating the license, this is the ambiguity.

    Then the reporter ask steam a few questions regarding the case and follows:

    “Tuesday lunchtime, I have still not had a reply. However, late yesterday, gimperial received an email from the Valve tech support op who had told him they wouldn’t help him any further, saying they would be looking into his case once more. And this morning, gimperial has found that his account has been restored, with access to his 250+ games returned. However, he has had his trading privileges permanently suspended”.

    Again if he did something wrong why they return some of the privileges and others dont, without any particular detail, which is good for him, but thats not the point here, the point is what was the criteria they did used in this case?, and if this criteria is something equal for all the users?, or if its done as they see fit ?, apparently the later IMO.

    And last they notified him the link you posted, but again they said for violations of the policy, which one?, if they didnt said for sure what it was, only that it wasnt for gifting, which was the only thing he did, according to the report, that violated the TOS aggrements, therefore for me the criteria applied to the banning was not clear, and it is a pretty alarming situation if you ask me.

    #85 2 years ago
  86. DSB

    @85 Again, you’re quoting John Walker.

    “He’s in Russia, and openly admits that he’s gifted games to people in exchange for money, to help them get them cheaper. Not frequently”

    This is John Walkers own assumption, where’s the data corroborating this claim? He’s blindly buying into what the guy tells him, because it allows him to build a case for abuse, while allowing him to paint the guy as a victim.

    “And he states that he mostly gifted games for free, just as a favour.”

    Are you reading this? So John Walker takes the word of a guy who got caught, and admits to knowingly violating the terms of use. He simply believes that he mostly gifted games “for free”, “just as a favour”.

    Because we all know that usually people who get caught are eager to expose the full extent of their violations. It always happens in Scooby Doo!

    “They banned his account without explaining what he did”

    They did not “ban” anyone. No ban was ever issued. They suspended his account based on suspicious activity, as stated in the support tickets, and it was reinstated once the investigation concluded, with a totally proportional response to his violation of their terms of service.

    “… gimperial received an email from the Valve tech support op who had told him they wouldn’t help him any further, saying they would be looking into his case once more. And this morning, gimperial has found that his account has been restored, with access to his 250+ games returned. However, he has had his trading privileges permanently suspended”

    Where’s the evidence? This is John Walker and the guy who got caught, presenting their own side of the story without any kind of documentation, or balancing counter-argument.

    The last (supposedly) documented correspondence actually reads like this:

    “I will make a note of it on your account.

    If you have any further questions, please let us know – we will be happy to assist you.”

    Oh yeah, they’re being real assholes there.

    “And last they notified the link you posted but again they said for violations of the policy, which one?”

    Come on, man. It even says so right there on the jpeg.

    Here it is: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=9958-MJDG-3003

    The only reason why any of this could be labeled alarming is because you’re blindly tapping into the paranoia of John Walker, which is about the stupidest thing you could ever do. He’s not a journalist, he’s not exactly mentally stable, and the article fails to meet an acceptable standard of journalism.

    It’s poorly supported argumentation and assumption, meant to support a conclusion that he has obviously already made for himself. Everything else is just meant to fit into his paranoid delusion of a company, selling games, apparently creating a system that will victimize their users.

    I mean come on… A little bit of skepticism. Everything you read is not credible just because it was published on the internet by someone calling themselves a games “journalist”. He’s a writer, not a journalist, as this sort of poorly documented agenda piece very clearly shows.

    #86 2 years ago
  87. ManuOtaku

    DSB i cannot access the link, would you please paste what it says.

    #87 2 years ago
  88. DSB

    @87 “What should I not trade for?

    Do not trade for anything that cannot be added into the trade window within Steam. The most common examples of these scenarios are the following:

    Trading items/gifts for money. You cannot add wallet credit or any form of money into the trade window. A common example of this is trading for items/gifts in return for money via PayPal.

    Trading items/gifts for CD Keys. You cannot add a CD Key into the trade window. CD Keys that are offered can be for a different game, fake, used or region restricted. A common example of this trade is trading items/gifts in return for a promotional CD Key that is never given to you.

    Trading items/gifts for nothing in return in the first trade and expecting to get an item or gift in a later trade. There is no reason to not trade everything in one trade. You may add unlimited items/gifts to a single trade. A common example of this is adding your items/gifts in one trade. Then the other user states that they will trade you their share or the rest of the items/gifts in another trade, but never do.”

    This is standard procedure with most content providers (Blizzard does the same thing with WoW) to avoid scamming. You have no guarantee that a guy offering to trade you something through the service will actually trade you something once the money has been transferred.

    #88 2 years ago
  89. fearmonkey

    This is baloney, and it’s not going to happen.
    No backwards compatibility for the games you own on a disk, when the hardware would easily support it?
    I highly doubt MS would forgo the disk drive, at least for this generation.
    The last thing in the world I want, is to have to download a huge game everytime I want to buy one. Steam preloading type features are nice, but most of the time I buy on a whim, not pr-orders.
    IF MS does this, then Sony would be so happy.

    Also, didn’t one of the other rumors say it was coming with a blu-ray drive?

    I just hope that they make it as powerful as they can, and not go cheap on ram and GPU. Otherwise the Ipad5/6 will be equal in performance.

    #89 2 years ago
  90. karma

    Yeah I dont do digital only for my AAA games.

    *Starts saving for new PC*

    #90 2 years ago
  91. Freek

    I still buy CDs and then ripp them to my iPod, it is not a discless device at all, it just so happens that you dock it with something else.

    That is what the music industry has going for it: options. You can download, you can buy physical, you can stream.

    The games industrie tendency to go ALL digital is missing the point. People don’t want to go down one path, they want choice.
    And MS knows this, the general public is not ready for an all digital future just yet and the Next Box will still have a disc drive as will the PS4.

    #91 2 years ago
  92. DSB

    @91 I’m not sure you could give Microsoft a worse reason to go ditch the disc.

    The music industry has all but killed itself, partly because it’s done a lot to remove any enjoyment people might have in music, putting out bad artists that are so heavily produced that they might as well be robots, but mainly because instead of backing MP3′s around the turn of the century it decided to prosecute anyone who got or enabled delivery of their music that way.

    I own a library of about 1100 cd’s, casettes and vinyls myself, so I’m certainly not immune to the charm of it, but I strongly doubt that it’s peoples preference these days, and digital distribution is swiftly becoming the preferred method of buying music. If you count piracy, it’s been the main method of delivery for the better part of the decade.

    In short: Music execs have smaller mansions, a smaller coke stash and less expensive supercars because they tried to force discs on people.

    I’m not saying that discs should be eradicated, and there are good arguments for keeping a drive in there, but I don’t think it’s a bad move to put a really strong emphasis on digital right now. That’s obviously where the business is going.

    #92 2 years ago
  93. sb319

    i can exclusively reveal that this report is nonsense.

    #93 2 years ago
  94. lexph3re

    You know its funny, no one seems to have thought that maybe this might not be a next gen xbox but a revamp of the 360 mobel like the short series model. all this argueing and at theend in ms statement they said they are looking to extend the lifecycle of current hardware. sooo this can very well be a new 360 lol besides wouldn’t be wise to release a limited media device in a consumer market still dominated by last year tech.
    And alot if you guys basing future prospects off of idevices that have roughly 20million users seem to forget about the largerer demographic of users who dont use those devices. This is literally a minority attaching their views to a majority.

    #94 2 years ago
  95. Hybridpsycho

    I like physical copies of my game :(

    #95 2 years ago
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    #96 8 months ago