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Anonymous on Sony attacks: “We’re here for the long haul”

Wednesday, 6th April 2011 14:01 GMT By Johnny Cullen

After releasing a video yesterday issuing a warning against Sony, hacktivist group Anonymous has said that the worst has yet to come in its attacks against the company and PlayStation as revenge for ongoing legal action against PS3 hackers.

The group told PlayStation Lifestyle that it had “big surprises” yet to come, although wouldn’t say what they were.

“So far, all Sony has seen from us is poking and prodding,” it said to the site.

“A simple salute to let them know we’re coming. Make no mistake, what you saw today and thought to be frustration is merely preparation for what’s to come. We said, expect us. Counting us out would be a mistake.”

It went on to add that customers affected were “collateral damage,” but were not part of the main aim.

“The consumers in this are as one might call, collateral damage. We are very cognisant of the fact that we are not making friends nor allies among the average consumer with our attack. This is unfortunate as a concern should always be, will the very people we seek to support not see what it is we are trying to achieve.

“In this case, many don’t. There has been a lot of hate spread throughout the internet and over forums that we are being reckless and simply punishing consumers more than Sony.”

It added: “To the consumers I would say: before you judge us, take the time to understand us.”

Anonymous signaled its intent against Sony earlier this week, with PSN suffering “sporadic maintenance” on Monday, which suggested it was somehow involved in creating the downtime.

The attacks are reprisals for ongoing legal action against George “Geohot” Hotz, who revealed PS3′s main serial key earlier this year, as well as another hacker known as Graf_Chokolo.

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97 Comments

  1. YoungZer0

    Fuck you, assholes. You don’t help us. You “help” some faggy wannabe rapper who underestimated Sony. Not us. Don’t try to fool us, you obviously can only fool yourself.

    This is Cyber Terrorism and nothing else. You’d be stupid to think Sony would give in to your Bullshit.

    #1 3 years ago
  2. StolenGlory

    “It added: “To the consumers I would say: before you judge us, take the time to understand us.”

    Oh really? Would that be before or after we become collateral damage you conclave of tragically hip hacker dickheads.

    #2 3 years ago
  3. Talkar

    go go go Anon!
    Keep up the fight!

    #3 3 years ago
  4. Ireland Michael

    “Would that be before or after we become collateral damage you conclave of tragically hip hacker dickheads.”

    Someone needs to put that on a plague and hang it on a wall.

    Beautiful man! Absolutely beautiful… *tear*

    #4 3 years ago
  5. Zarckan

    Oh seriously, go fix your own lives instead of ruining others!

    #5 3 years ago
  6. StolenGlory

    @3

    Keep up the fight?

    What fight? The ‘good’ fight against ‘The Man’ I guess yeah?

    Oh please, spare me your Rage Against The Machine inspired Rebel Without A Cause bullshit.

    #6 3 years ago
  7. Esper

    I understand that they are just a bunch of idiots.

    #7 3 years ago
  8. joseangelhe

    Please. take of your idiotic mask and make your threats and please in the open.

    I’ll try to “understand” you better then.

    #8 3 years ago
  9. Talkar

    @6
    nope, just because i’m not a whiny bitch, doesn’t mean i don’t have the right to choose which side i’m on.

    #9 3 years ago
  10. ManuOtaku

    To tell you the truth,this is sonys fault in the first place, they give an excuse for this, with the other S issue, but this way of retaliation i dont approve it, because like anonymous stated consumers are collateral damage in this, and it is also wrong, i would suggest to you anonymous that go stole some containers of ps3 and made them explode or ask the people affected by the took of other s to burn theirs i all the places of the world at the same time, as a sign of disaggrement with sony, or i dont know any other type of retaliation that damage sony directly but not the consumers.

    #10 3 years ago
  11. Ireland Michael

    @9 And we have the right to think the “side you’re on” is full of tragically unhip, self-masturbatory, pseudo-intellectual douches.

    #11 3 years ago
  12. YoungZer0

    @10: You again? :Rolleyes:

    #12 3 years ago
  13. StolenGlory

    @9

    Yeeeah, I didn’t say that you couldn’t or didn’t have the right to choose what side you are on, but rather, why in the name of fuck you would choose to align yourself with a bunch of morally-barren, self-styled internet fuckmuppets who treat YOU as collateral damage and couldn’t care if they datamine your CC details for donkey porn.

    #13 3 years ago
  14. Blerk

    Ha ha – Stolen’s on fire! :-D

    Go, man! Whoo! \o/

    #14 3 years ago
  15. Talkar

    @13
    Simple, i don’t use PSN, i think it isn’t working that well in the first place, therefore i’m not a part of the “collateral damage”, and i support geohot and therefore by extension, i support anon and graf.

    #15 3 years ago
  16. viralshag

    “It added: “To the consumers I would say: before you judge us, take the time to understand us.”

    I would do this if they could take the time to understand ME. I will give you a hint: I don’t give a toss about your blight or that of other hackers. I’m not a hacker, I’m a consumer and I like the product produced by the people you’re going after.

    YoungZer0 was spot on, it’s nothing more than cyber-terrorism. Terrorists always believe the reason they fight is right, what makes them total dicks is the fact that they disregard everyone else that it harms.

    Selfish wankers.

    #16 3 years ago
  17. StolenGlory

    @15

    Oh wow, so just because you don’t use it – fuck the rest of us eh?

    #17 3 years ago
  18. Blerk

    I don’t quite understand what they think they’re going to accomplish. Sony aren’t going to back down, so they’re basically pissing up a wall.

    All they’ll actually ensure is that in the future Sony will make their devices be even more restrictive and closed-off than they were before.

    #18 3 years ago
  19. Zurtech

    I take it they don’t realize that they’re just strengthening Sony’s court case by hacking into PSN, cos I’d guess they had to use the root key Hotz released onto the net to start with?

    #19 3 years ago
  20. Blerk

    They’re not hacking PSN are they, just launching DOS attacks? Which any spanner with enough machines can do easily enough.

    #20 3 years ago
  21. Ryzilient

    @15 You tell me where it says in any worldwide constitution that they are allowed to hack and possibly damage a network owned by a Private Ltd. or Public Ltd. company, and thereby affect a product used by an incredibly wide consumer base.

    Then I might be able to see why you are capable of supporting them.

    #21 3 years ago
  22. DSB

    @18 Activism in a nutshell, no?

    #22 3 years ago
  23. Erthazus

    I’m sure they are going to hack Sony’s youtube accounts and upload dick videos.

    thats the best 4chan can do these days. Nothing more then that.

    #23 3 years ago
  24. Jan

    Sony has been shitting all over its consumer and is going to far with Geohot like the PS3 never would be hacked, and its crazy how much control a company can get now and days and even more scary how many that just accept it, one of the ways to show Sony that many do not agree on how they operate is to hurt them on the consumer since it the only way Sony get the message.

    #24 3 years ago
  25. joseangelhe

    @24 Best way to show you don’t agree how company works is by not buying its products.

    I just can’t trust someone that hides behind a mask and in a mob, they’re pussies that’s all.

    #25 3 years ago
  26. OrbitMonkey

    I find it funny that these freedom loving anarchists hate it when companies defend their intellectual property. Guess its because they’ve never created a ip that consumers would actually want, just nasty little viruses & other such bullshit.

    #26 3 years ago
  27. daytripper

    i just buy the console and play games, not interested in hacks or whatever, i buy the console for its main purpose, to play games.

    #27 3 years ago
  28. DSB

    @25 Not so. The best way would be to organize against it, and make it an honest campaign.

    Sabotage is an act of desperation, and most people will identify it as such.

    What could actually make a dent would be to make a website detailing every error Sony makes, from run of the mill lawsuits (that the public usually won’t hear much about) to where they make their consoles and games, using cheap labor, what metals go into it from conflict zones, to peoples own personal complaints that get sent in. It’s a multinational company, so detaling their mistakes would provide you with some serious material.

    All you’d have to do is be honest and document what you’re saying.

    You could grab a domain like DirtySony.com or something like that, and just collect every single bad thing they do. There are few things that businesses fear more than well argued bad publicity, and it’s not uncommon for even the most amateur websites of that nature to be desperately bought out for a huge sum of money and a minor NDA.

    #28 3 years ago
  29. Ryzilient

    @24 Yeah, Sony certainly craps over its consumers. I don’t think we can dispute that. I’d like you to give me a company that doesn’t crap on it’s consumer. But is aiming to damage the company the way to go about it? Certainly not.

    Put yourself in any company’s shoes. Say, there was an incident which means your company had to bring someone to court. We’ll say this was due to the individual consumer publishing a piece of private information that he was not within his rights to publish. Now, everyone else in the world is on your back because you’re prosecuting someone at the forefront of what he does on a daily basis.

    A business needs sales, right? Because businesses need money to continue? That crystal clear? I’m sure it is. Since I’m sure you know people who work for large corporations who need sales to make money so their employees keep their jobs. This is affecting Sony’s sales, the company’s international reputation, and thus, is affecting it’s everyday employees. So, since Sony is an evil corporation, everyone who works for them is evil by default? I’m SURE we all think that’s true.

    Please, between hackers and the people who are delusional enough to support them, everyone needs to realise that this world runs on capitalism and the corporate model. Do I need to post a youtube link to ‘Money’?

    #29 3 years ago
  30. DSB

    @29 Technically, consumers crap on themselves. Then they conveniently blame the corporations who take advantage of their own lack of principles, knowledge and discipline.

    I don’t neccesarily like it, but corporations only exist for as long as people keep paying them.

    #30 3 years ago
  31. Fin

    PRE-EMPTIVE SHUT THE FUCK UP

    #31 3 years ago
  32. joseangelhe

    “and it’s not uncommon for even the most amateur websites of that nature to be desperately bought out for a huge sum of money and a minor NDA.”

    Which makes the act useless. They have the money and will not hesitate to dish it out to pull those webpages out. Nothing to it.

    Sony makes a good enough product that people want to buy, it has it’s flaws and such but people still want it. If you don’t agree with the company then you don’t obtain it’s product.

    #32 3 years ago
  33. DSB

    @32 Well, with the key distinction being that you have to voluntarily TAKE the money, for that to happen. They can’t take from you, what you don’t want to give. They can just give you an offer.

    It’s only useless if you choose to make it useless. Choice and responsibility is a wonderful thing.

    However, a lot of people do make websites like that just to get a wad of dough. Doesn’t mean you have to.

    #33 3 years ago
  34. Gekidami

    lol So the people they’re supposedly fight for are “collateral damage”? Yeah, sorry but these guys are tards, and they’re using the same logic as terrorist groups in the middle east.
    Well done Anonymous, you’ve now become they internet equivalent of Al Qaeda.

    #34 3 years ago
  35. Tallon 4

    Fuck those retards.

    #35 3 years ago
  36. Psychotext

    On the bright side… DDoS attacks usually result in significantly more robust network architecture by the end of it. It’s like a heavy duty stress test.

    Which will actually benefit us in the long run.

    Though that doesn’t stop it being a dick move that they’re targeting the PSN rather than say, Sony’s payment servers.

    #36 3 years ago
  37. Alakratt

    When I read what Anonymous was doing I was furious at them first. First because the attacks on PSN affecting us users, second, because I think Geohot knew what trouble could come after opening that door. Then I read what Anonymous said “To the consumers I would say: before you judge us, take the time to understand us.” So, I did a little researching, they actually fight for things that make sense (although there are some attacks claiming to be them, but really doubt it). The one attack that really stood out to me was the one against the RIAA. They are suing Limewire for 75 TRILLION dollars!!! That’s crossing the line, and so is Sony wanting the personal info of everyone who enters or views Geohot’s site or videos! I don’t agree with what Geohot did nor piracy, but I also don’t agree with crossing the line. So in a sense, I support Anonymous.

    #37 3 years ago
  38. ududy

    @30, saying that consumers are responsible for corporations is a little naive. When you go to buy something today, there are many many product categories where there is no choice at all between a product manufactured by a corporation and an alternative made by a small company.

    Choosing between products today is often nothing more than deciding which millionaires will become richer millionaires. The democracy of “voting with your wallet” is a perceived freedom that i feel is mainly negligible in today’s world.

    Of course, you can go and live in a remote village, raise your own food and ignore the world. But that is not what most people who desire change want. They want the modern world with its modern products, but in a more balanced relationship between the corporations and the citizens.

    #38 3 years ago
  39. Robo_1

    They lost any sniff of the moral high ground, the minute they started targeting individual employees, let alone going after Stringer’s kids.

    The irony is, with all their talk of end users being little more than collateral damage, they’re re-enforcing the negative view many people have had of hackers since before all this began.

    #39 3 years ago
  40. Cygnar

    You cannot bully others into giving you respect.

    The U.S. has a long history of recognizing rights: slaves, women, people of color, homosexuals, and others have all fought hard battles for public recognition of their hardships and governmental protection from infringement upon their rights. The United States allowed the oppression of all these people, and so many of the rights that the U.S. government protects today simply did not exist before advocacy groups organized and fought to bring these rights into being.

    But harassment alone has never brought freedom to anyone. Attacking others without regard for “collateral damage” to innocent people has never moved our countries forward. Blackmail has never succeeded in turning liberty into law.

    We use the word “hacktivisim” to refer to these actions because “activism” does not describe them. Think of all the good these young people could do if they spent their time and effort fighting for consumer rights in the legal arena, instead of throwing tantrums in front of corporations and expecting rights to just fall into their laps.

    #40 3 years ago
  41. Eregol

    Whether it’s a worthwhile cause or not is surely in the hands of whoever reads the statement.
    Breaking the law is breaking the law and piracy is breaking the law.
    The RIAA suing Limewire for 75 trillion is ludicrous as they cannot possibly control what it’s users share.

    But hacking a PS3 so you can play pirated titles is not a cause to fight. It’s supporting theft through Cyber Terrorism and as such has no place is society.

    I don’t give a fuck about Geohot. Sony Sue him, they sue him. In the current economic climate companies have to do whatever they can to protect their investments. To fuck up PSN users all over the globe just to support one person is ridiculous and I really hope Sony come out on top through all this.

    #41 3 years ago
  42. ManuOtaku

    #41 “But harassment alone has never brought freedom to anyone. Attacking others without regard for “collateral damage” to innocent people has never moved our countries forward. Blackmail has never succeeded in turning liberty into law”.
    Sorry but all the wars made by man are like that, and most of the tech advances we got came from war doing this collateral damages.

    #42 3 years ago
  43. Eregol

    @43
    You’re refering to wars that changed the world.
    Wars that would have resulted in lives lost and ways of life changed forever.

    This is a bunch of speccy twats fighting on behalf of another speccy twat for a right that laws say shouldn’t exist.

    The wars that were fought, were to protect civil liberties and the laws the lands govern.
    This war is being fought by lawbreakers for lawbreakers.

    #43 3 years ago
  44. ManuOtaku

    #44 sorry but sony shot the first bullet on this, so is war coming trough them by his actions, anonymous actions are wrong thats true and i dont support them with this type of retaliation that damage also the consumers, but it was initiated by sony for the other S issue.

    As for the wars of course they change the world all the wars made by man change the world and the way we live, but all the wars no matter who is right or wrong that depends of the point of view, because sometimes history was been written by the winners, take collateral damage even if it is for the protection of civil rights and liberties, thats what i was trying to say that it doesnt matter the intentions(good or bad) all wars do collateral damage.

    #44 3 years ago
  45. Eregol

    Sony shot the first bullet?
    You don’t suppose hacking a PS3 and then posting the means to do so on the web should be classed as firing the first bullet do you?

    Sony retaliated to protect their business.
    if it fails to keep software secure then they lose the confidence of their partners.
    Sony needs to protect them as well as itself, that is their responsibility as a platform provider.
    If they fail, not only them, but the publishers and developers they work with will get hit.

    You don’t seem to understand, it’s not just Sony that will suffer, it’s everyone in the industry, from the up aboves, to the consumers.

    Don’t take this as read that I think the publishers and retailers are right with the astronomical prices they charge for software.
    The prices should come down.
    But piracy is not going to do anything to stop them ramping up prices.

    #45 3 years ago
  46. DSB

    @ududy

    That’s certainly partly true, I was a little too general there, but here we’re talking about a gaming console. It won’t affect your access to clean water, your rights as a citizen, your education, your access to electricity or your nutrition in any significant way. As such, it’s very much a question of choice whether you want to indulge yourself and the corporations responsible for those gaming consoles or not.

    Obviously, if we’re talking about diaper manufacturers, funeral services, medicinal companies or any sort of totally essential service like that, then there’s an obvious element of exploitation involved.

    The question of true freedom and percieved freedom in terms of government and economy is a fairly philosophical discussion where I think you and I would probably be on the same page, but I just don’t accept a perfectly sensible consumer buying a non-essential item, and then crying to mommy and daddy that the people who make that non-essential item, are somehow exploiting him. That’s never going to be the case.

    He clearly had the choice to buy it, or leave it on the shelf, and equally so, maintains the right to cancel whatever subscriptions he may have signed, as well as the right resell the machine for a minor loss, or throw it away. There’s no room for any sort of claim for exploitation.

    #46 3 years ago
  47. Ireland Michael

    @46 Fiddling around with your own personal hardware is not a crime, as long as you don’t use it to then proceed to break the law, I.E. piracy.

    Hotz’ jailbreak doesn’t allow piracy.

    In fact, it was expressly designed to *not* allow it, as has been the case with all of Hotz’ previous jailbreaks, like the famous blackra1n for the iOS line of products.

    People may have circumvented Hotz’ original jailbreak and added the required functionality to pirate software, but he is not accountable for other people’s actions.

    #47 3 years ago
  48. 2plus2equals5

    Someone is going to go to South America…

    #48 3 years ago
  49. YoungZer0

    @46: Of course it’s Sony’s fault! If you wear a short skirt: Prepare to be raped.

    #49 3 years ago
  50. Eregol

    @48
    Didn’t Geohotz’s jailbreak allow you to install games to your hard drive so you didn’t need the disc?
    That’s piracy.

    #50 3 years ago
  51. DSB

    I don’t know if that’s piracy or not, but as far as I know he doesn’t have to commit any crime according to the code of law, beyond violating Sonys terms of service and end user licence agreement.

    As soon as he does that, he’s corporately fucked regardless of intentions or design.

    http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/us/index.html

    #51 3 years ago
  52. KrazyKraut

    seriously…why they dont hack the chinese goverment or so? they do really bad things to their own folk. like holding flat irons in the face of regime foes. or hacking the gov of some african/arab govs where prisoners get beaten up every day till they only can crawl in their cells back or get needles or knives in their penises for just saying their own opinion (ehm…not figurative…REAL folks, real just google a little bit).

    there are goverments/authorities who are really treat ppl like shit, who rape and tortue other ppl because they want more freedom, say their opinion or just ask why. and then there are sony, who just cut the support for linux.

    Now thing really about it….just one sec. its ridiculous.

    Thats what anonymous is. they hack sony because they cut the flow of information??? they are the most ridiculous hacking group which think they do right things i ever saw in my life. you are pseudo, nothing else.

    so please red bull, dont make your company colors in green/deep yellow or anonymous will hack you.

    #52 3 years ago
  53. Ireland Michael

    @51 No, it didn’t.

    With geohot’s PS3 jailbreak, you can’t play backup games or pirated games. You can only install packages with the provided installer.

    Hotz advocates against piracy, and has proven this fact countless times by putting deliberate anti-piracy measures in all of his jail-breaks.

    #53 3 years ago
  54. ManuOtaku

    #50 well if i were a woman (hypotetycally) that trade(offer and demand) with my body in that case is true. you are exposed to that, it was the women decision, the same sony did implementig since first day the other s application on the device, stating it will last till the end of the lifecycle of the product, it was sony decision, not the consumers

    #54 3 years ago
  55. ManuOtaku

    # 52 “I don’t know if that’s piracy or not, but as far as I know he doesn’t have to commit any crime according to the code of law, beyond violating Sonys terms of service and end user licence agreement.

    As soon as he does that, he’s corporately fucked regardless of intentions or design”.

    Therefore sony is in the same boat as hotz , becuase they had the money of the users that did pay full price for the ps3 that had other s, that form part of the total cost of the device, and when they took it they did not compensated the consumer by any form, and i mean they didnt even try to offer free movies or games, acting like the care, as soon as they did that they are fucked regarless of intentions or desing too right

    #55 3 years ago
  56. Cygnar

    #54

    This sort of hair-splitting is why intent does not matter in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The law makes it a felony to circumvent security measures, and it just doesn’t care what reasons offenders have for doing it, aside from some very narrow exceptions.

    Hotz did a large part of the work in making piracy possible on the PS3. While piracy isn’t like violent crime, one might compare Hotz’ actions to those of a driver who stays in the car while his friends get out and rob a bank, at least if the allegations are true. Hotz may not have intended piracy to occur. However, it also seems that if not for Hotz, PS3 piracy would not have been possible–and in truth, widespread piracy became a reality almost immediately after Hotz ‘opened up the platform.’ So even though Hotz may have had all the best intentions, he still could have done a lot of financial harm to Sony, which says nothing about the harm piracy is doing to ordinary consumers. This is one of the types of harm the DMCA is meant to combat.

    When you look at the requirements of the DMCA as they are plainly written, Sony is not acting the least bit out-of-line using it to sue Hotz. It isn’t stretching the law to extend to more people, it isn’t trying to make it apply in unusual ways in order to abuse people like Hotz; it is merely asserting rights it is clearly able to exercise.

    In any case, Hotz isn’t stupid. I am sure that a security expert like Hotz could have made an installer that wouldn’t so easily be repurposed to allow piracy. If he felt so compelled to break the law and circumvent the system’s security measures, he should have at least taken on more responsibility to minimize the easily-foreseeable harm that could result from his actions.

    #56 3 years ago
  57. Alakratt

    Interesting, a lot of people here say that Geohot’s jailbreak doesn’t allow piracy. Ok, that’s nice and all, but can ANYONE explain why then after he released his jailbreaks for iPhone and PS3, did the floodgates open for piracy, i.e. cracked apps in iPhone and running “backups” of games from the HDD in PS3s?

    And before anyone says it, I know there was a level of piracy on the PS3 before Geohot touched it, BUT NO ONE can deny that the level of it reached ridiculous heights AFTER he released the root key AND his jailbreak.

    #57 3 years ago
  58. varsas

    @56: I’ve not read the T&Cs but I would have thought that it probably has something about them being able to change features of the system; I’ve seen other T&Cs like that in the past.

    #58 3 years ago
  59. DSB

    varsas said it.

    It’s too stupid to really comment on something like that, because the consumers don’t own jack shit, except for the right to use the console within terms defined by the owner.

    The technology, the features, and the right to change either belong solely to Sony, as per the agreement you agree to when you buy the console.

    People are just becoming spoiled, ignorant brats. I don’t know what brings that on, but clearly people feel entitled to own and change whatever they like, regardless of who it actually belongs to.

    I’d love an open source society, but that’s not how the world works, and if you propose to disregard that, then people will hold you accountable. You want an open source console? Make one, champ.

    #59 3 years ago
  60. ManuOtaku

    #59, what sony is stating is that when the one year warranty expires they can removed the other s, or any other application for that matter,as they see fit, becuase in that point my contract with them expires, and i mean the buy part all the things that came in the box all the agreements done in the purchase process, the sad thing is that sony is confusing or trying to make confuse, expectation of free repair”, with “expectation of continued function after the warranty expires, and with this is like they are saying they deliverately did made a device that will cease to operate once the warranty is over, thank god the ps3 didnt had the malfunctions rates the xbox 360 had, because with this statement i can say that they did it on purpose and will be sue all over the world***rollseyes****

    #60 3 years ago
  61. Cygnar

    #60

    It is more than that. People sign away their rights in contracts without batting an eye, and then they demand respect for the very same rights they no longer have.

    #61 3 years ago
  62. DSB

    @62 Well, it is confusing if you aren’t aware of it I suppose. I buy a console, it’s my dominion, right? That’s just not the case.

    It’s a real problem that people don’t know these things.

    Especially since poetic justice isn’t a real term in very many courts :P

    #62 3 years ago
  63. ManuOtaku

    Sorry but sony did sign a contrat with the consumers when they did pay the total cost with all the applications that came with the box of the device,those applications were part of that total cost, such agreement was broke by sony when the tooked one of them without compensating the consumers with money refounds for the value involve, or free games, movies, wallpapers, etc,as a trade to compesate the damages done, acting like they care for the consumers, therefore sony breach the contract that came with the box.

    And thats why those consumers, and a great number of consumers that didnt bought such said device, are supporting Geo, and it is understandable because they feel that sony did a damage to them, and this lead to the anonymous gropu attacking sony for the GEO trial, so a chain of events that lead to the primarey source, sonys own wrong actions against consumers.

    #63 3 years ago
  64. DSB

    I kinda hope you find yourself in a court one day Manu.

    Sony reserved the rights to change their EULA and TOS whenever and however they please. In other words, you go into a court argueing that, and no one will take you seriously, simply because you didn’t bother to read the conditions you were agreeing to.

    The fact that you’re pissed about it won’t impress anyone.

    Caveat fucking emptor.

    #64 3 years ago
  65. Gama_888

    what geohot did was not piracy, but it enabled piracy, and no doubt thats what most of, if not all, the people who used his code did

    #65 3 years ago
  66. Gekidami

    ^ Yep, people seem to want to foget that the first results of GeoHotz jailbreak was CoD4 & MW2 becoming unplayable due to cheaters, and games getting pirated.

    #66 3 years ago
  67. dreamcastnews

    IMO, mess around all you like with a system past it’s shelf life (PS2, Xbox, DC etc) but a current gen system is a bit of a no no. You do indeed enter a contract with the hardware manufacturer when buying these systems and no doubt it’s interesting to see what people do with a machine when the security has been compromised, but I still feel this Geohotz fella should be punished for his accused crimes. It no doubt has helped hardware sales of the PS3 but Sony make very little from system sales, it’s the software where the margins are made and what this guy has done can potentially leave the system open to abuse, it’d be awesome if his exploits were just used for home brew but we all know this won’t be the case for some.

    If I was Mr Sony I’d take the guy to the cleaners.

    #67 3 years ago
  68. OrbitMonkey

    No offence Manu, but your talking shit. It’s a naive, misinformed shit, but its still shit.
    1) Hackers have been trying to hack the ps3 since launch day. You really think this is about other os? No Its about their ego.
    2) The *people* supporting this are hackers, Sony haters & some home brewers. The 1st 2 heavily outweigh the 3rd. You think ps3 owners want psn disrupted?
    3) Hmm thats it. I’m sure somebody will come along with some wall of text, trying to prove Sony deserves it, but hey ho thats the net :)

    #68 3 years ago
  69. ManuOtaku

    #65 well sony is in court by this and having a hard time, because it is said pretty much what i had said on legal terms, but the outcome not will be known in the short term.
    http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110218181557455.

    Also what is right in court doesnt mean is the rightest thing to do, because in the end the people that made the laws (and those who paid them) also create at the same time the loopholes and tricks to get away with their things, so that doenst mean that what sony did was right.

    if a consumer didnt run the update, so he didnt agree with the tos and eula, therefore he will end up loosing the PSN and Playing new games, that means that two appplications that were priced too on the total cost, are being took off, therefore sony again will have to compensate the money involve for this two applications that came with the product and originally fully advertised, or offer another compensating alternatives, becuase if not, and thats the choice in the end they had opted, is not their property, plain and simple belongs to the consumer (i mean the money).

    #69 3 years ago
  70. Hellequin

    All i read is blablablablablalblablabla, Geohot blablablablabla, Sony sucks blablablablabla…

    Seriously why the hell do you want to “modify” a console? I buy mine 4 years ago and NEVER use linux, play a lot of games and never wanted to open the console or modify the OS. A minor people want it, and then we got a lot of piracy and hackers trying to say their not guilt of that? Oh, come on, utopia is all i see in those acts, bunch of crap thinking can do a better world just because some pop hacker maybe go to jail.

    Is SO many things they can do to really help someone, i dont think that people who can buy a PS3 need any help. Im stating to not like those acts of hackers anymore, bunch of teenagers thinking they can change the world hacking Sony… sad.

    #70 3 years ago
  71. ManuOtaku

    #69 if you read my post here i said iam not with this guys, please look carefully into my comments.

    Second iam not a ps3 hater i play games on it and enjoy them a lot, and also on PSN, you can look my account ManuOtaku, but that doenst mean when sony does something that is wrong i cannot tell it, look we as gamers that use consoles , for instance, can blame microsoft for having a faulty device that did had a high failure rate, if we as consumers didnt elevate our voices at that moment, like we did when that thing happened, well microsoft will end up doing nothing, and when the xbox 720 will be arriving we will see the exact same thing happening again, if we dont critize nintendo for having an arcaic online play with the friends code system, well we are not going to see any changes on that front on the wii, we need to push them forwards not backwards.

    And i can put examples all day long here, but not for the sake of a long wall of text like you wisely put, but let me tell you if we as gamers dont defend fellow consumers when they are being hurt, well next time it will be another niche group affected, lets say by netflix took off, or free PSN, or any on those lines, when do finally realize that all were affected well it will be to late, so we must stand together when our beloved manufactures do something wrong, even if that affects an small portion, becuase in that way we can make them better for the best of us in the end, and to support the industry in the overall picture.

    And Lastly i dotn want PSN disrupted, like all you guys, but thats sonys work and for that they need to plan their actions carefully no the old addage fix it when its broken, plan first in order to avoid the fix, is what iam angry about nothing more nothing less, and for the love of god asking for a nicer consumer treatment cannot be that bad, isn it?
    P.D I guess i did made a wall text sorry. 8D

    #71 3 years ago
  72. DSB

    @70 Skimming through that, it seems that Sony isn’t having a very hard time at all, in fact they feel their case is so good they’d like a verdict right away. The court is granting them motions to dismiss parts of the case by the looks of it, even if they aren’t moving to strike.

    It looks like a loosely put together case where the people filing the class action do not really know where to bring a settlement even if they get it. It doesn’t look very professional to me.

    That’s not say that it’s predictable just yet, but it seems pretty obvious that if you reject the EULA and TOS, then you leave yourself well out of the privileges afforded by it. You can’t have your cake and eat it too, no matter how hard you cry.

    I imagine that Sony would move to settle if they felt there was any kind of jeopardy, rather than telling the judge to pull the trigger.

    Nobody’s argueing right or wrong here, because that doesn’t apply to an entity whose only purpose in life is to create profit. We’re purely argueing what you’re allowed to do or not, and the restrictions you agree to when you buy a product that comes with a licence that you accept to buy.

    #72 3 years ago
  73. ManuOtaku

    “That’s not say that it’s predictable just yet, but it seems pretty obvious that if you reject the EULA and TOS, then you leave yourself well out of the privileges afforded by it. You can’t have your cake and eat it too, no matter how hard you cry”.

    I dont get it, but sony can have the consumers money ( the cake here) for the whole package even if the package is not whole?.

    #73 3 years ago
  74. DSB

    @74 As long as they don’t swear never to take some of that package away from you in the EULA, then that’s a big fat yes.

    If I say I’ll sell you a cake, but I explicitly give you a note saying “I can’t promise I won’t rip it out of your hands and eat it right in front of you in about 10 seconds after I recieve your money, since the flour, sugar, and frosting is still my proprietary technology” then you know I’m liable to eat your fucking cake, and you don’t get to sue me for it, because you knew I might when you bought it!

    Of course a cake is a fairly bad example, and a lawyer would never make an analogy that stupid and inconsistent.

    Sony’s technology + Sony’s licence + your agreement = Total fucking.

    #74 3 years ago
  75. ManuOtaku

    But you didnt said you would do it neither, in fact they didnt said any of the two when the consumer did purchase the product, so how can you convince a judge with that, if the vendor or purchaser had anything of this on the aggrements that came with the box.

    #75 3 years ago
  76. reask

    Dont know if it is related but I am getting error 80710092 when I try to get in.
    Went to the forums and it appears to be happening a lot.
    Anyone know?

    I was able to download the socom beta but I could not play it when I tried to I got the error thing.

    #76 3 years ago
  77. LOLshock94

    /We/ are Anonymous. /We/ do not forgive. /We/ do not forget. /We/ are legion <3

    #77 3 years ago
  78. DSB

    @76 Well, I’m not familiar enough with the original EULA to say either way. I’m not a paralegal working the case :P

    I’m very very very sure that it included the universal statement that “All of this might change when and if we choose” which is pretty much the case with any licencing agreement you accept upon buying technology these days.

    And with that, they have a very strong argument to say “Told ya so, bub”.

    #78 3 years ago
  79. ManuOtaku

    #75 updated comment ok
    Sony’s technology + Sony’s licence + your agreement = Total fucking

    ok based on that equation , when the consumer purchase the device, it didnt said on the aggrements that came with the box,that they will can take any applications for said device or neither it says that it wont, and that only came in the TOS or EULA before that, so if the consumer didnt decide to update and he did lost the two applications (psn and playing new games that required update), how they can get away with the purchaser money?

    P.D “All of this might change when and if we choose” that came in the box?, are you sure, well i will look into it ok, i will need to find where i did put the box 8D

    #79 3 years ago
  80. DSB

    @80 Here we are:

    “SNEA, at its sole discretion, may modify the terms of this Agreement at any time, including imposing a fee for creating PSN accounts. By accepting this Agreement or by accessing Sony Online Services, you agree to be bound by all current terms of the Agreement. To access a printable, current copy of this Agreement, go to http://www.qriocity.com on your personal computer. If material changes to this Agreement are made, you will be notified by e-mail or other communication when you sign in to Sony Online Services. If necessary, you will be given additional choices regarding such change(s). Your continued use of Sony Online Services, including use of your associated Sub Account(s), will signify your acceptance of these changes. If you do not accept material changes to the Agreement, contact us to terminate this Agreement and your account(s).”

    Translated:

    “All of this can change when and if we choose”

    Meaning:

    “If you don’t read this stuff, and you come back crying to us once we do change shit, you can go fuck yourself”

    This is a standard legal caveat. It’s in every single EULA under the sun.

    #80 3 years ago
  81. ManuOtaku

    #81 man dont hate me ok… but this is from what, the papers that came in the box from the phat models or the EULA or TOS that came after it, i am at work and this page doesnt open, sorry

    #81 3 years ago
  82. DSB

    It’s a standard legal caveat. It’s in every single EULA you can find, for any item connected to a service or a proprietary technology, probably dating back to the 70′s or earlier.

    Read my fingers: This is standard. Obvious. Universal. Common knowledge. Ubiquitous.

    #82 3 years ago
  83. Dimacorgan

    I don’t give a f**k about EULA or whatever, I just wanna come home from work and be able to play games I have paid for (unlike these damn cockshackers). All the rest is nonsense. All this sort of crusade they’re building is a huge pile of s-h-i-t.
    Get these Anonymous out of the freaking way.
    (and kick their ass in the process, if you can)

    #83 3 years ago
  84. KrazyKraut

    @80
    sowhat fucking agreed!

    #84 3 years ago
  85. ManuOtaku

    #83 “SNEA, at its sole discretion, may modify the terms of this Agreement at any time, including imposing a fee for creating PSN accounts. By accepting this Agreement or by accessing Sony Online Services, you agree to be bound by all current terms of the Agreement”

    Ok again if the consumer didnt update the TOS or EULA, that means he didnt Agree with the before mentioned paragraf or term, so the question still stands if when the consumer purchase the device, it didnt said on the aggrements that came with the box, that sony can take any applications or modifications for said device or neither it says that it wont, and that only came in the TOS or EULA before that, so if the consumer didnt decide to update and he did lost the two applications (psn and playing new games that required update), how can sony get away with the purchaser money? i think that is not legal at all

    #85 3 years ago
  86. Gekidami

    ^ If you didnt update the EULA, you didnt lose Other OS, everytime you patch the console its displayed on the screen with what the patch does.

    And i doubt Sony’s ability to modify though patches any features they seem fit isnt in the original one.

    It must be hard grasping at some many straws.

    #86 3 years ago
  87. ManuOtaku

    #84 i think you need to give a thing or two about EULA, because in a sense they rule your online experience and the much you do online, and also they try to protect you from this kind of things you are agaisnt, althouhgt it can be improve from a customers perspective standpoint.

    #87 3 years ago
  88. DSB

    Manu, you’re not being serious at this point.

    It said so in the original agreement, because it says so in EVERY SINGLE EULA KNOWN TO MAN.

    If it would be missing, that would be one of the biggest incompetences in corporate history. It’s in every EULA. They all look the same, they’re all meant to do the same things, it’s in every EULA. Somehow I doubt that Sony has special ed children working in their legal department, especially writing EULAs for major product releases. It’s in every EULA.

    Again, it’s in every EULA.

    Did you read that?

    It’s in every EULA.

    Just one for the road:

    It’s in every EULA. E-v-e-r-y capital-e-capital-u-capital-l-capital-a.

    #88 3 years ago
  89. ManuOtaku

    #89 ok i will check the box and advise you.thanks
    P.D and i didnt see the link becuase i cant iam at work and it doesnT allow me, thats why i did insist, understood your point. now to verify it. thanks again

    #89 3 years ago
  90. neon6

    #41 is a spam bot.

    #90 3 years ago
  91. joseangelhe

    @48 I understand what you’re saying, but what other use was Hotz’ hack for?

    And freedom of speech aside, don’t you think it was a little bit TOO naive of him to just let the internet world know about thinking “Oh, they’ll never use it to hack the PS3 even more.”

    That’s reeks of too much of hand washing to me.

    Give a gun to a criminal, he’ll shoot somebody.

    #91 3 years ago
  92. HauntaVirus

    #93 needs to be perma-banned ASAP>

    #92 3 years ago
  93. Brenna Hillier

    After deleting the spam, you’re now 93. ;)

    #93 3 years ago
  94. ManuOtaku

    #DSB i did not found my phat model box (is on my parents house) but i found the slim and in the last page it says that the software pre-installed in the ps3 hardware is licensed under the terms and conditions of a separete en user license agreemnet which is the one you access when you turn on the console, so i think this will be the same as the 2006 box manual.

    The original version 1.0 in november 11 of 2006, in the section number 8 (general legal) stated pretty much what you put in the previous post an it goes like this

    “By using or accessing the System Software, you agree to be bound by all current terms of this Agreement. To access a printable, current copy of this Agreement, go to http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ on your personal computer. SCE, at its sole discretion, may modify the terms of this Agreement at any time. Please check back on this website from time to time for changes to this Agreement. Your continued access to or use of the System Software will signify your acceptance of any changes to this Agreement. In the event of any conflict between this Agreement and the Terms of Service and User Agreement for SCE’s online network, the terms of this Agreement shall control the use of or access to, the System Software”.

    But in the section 1. LICENSE GRANT state also the following:

    Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, all System Software is licensed to users solely for personal, non-commercial use on the PS3â„¢ system in the country in which the PS3â„¢ system was designed by SCE to operate. To the extent permitted by applicable law, your rights to use or access the current version of the System Software shall cease upon installation of a newer version of the System Software onto your PS3â„¢ system, whether such installation occurs through manual or automatic download by SCE through SCE’s online network, or otherwise.

    Therefore the consumer rights to use or access the current version of the System Software (1.3 Other S, PSN, and gaming), will cease upon the installation of a the version 1.4 , and here comes the tricky part or a legal vacuum if you will, mainly because if the consumer didnt agree the terms of the version 1.4 the one that toss out the Other S option, it means that he has the rights to keep using the before version 1.3, that supported (Other S, PSN, and gaming)so those will not had to cease in any way, therefore the PSN access and playing new games that were toss out by the 1.4 updated, should had been compensated by sony to the comsumers, therefore again so if the consumer didnt decide to update the 1.4 version, and he did keep the rights because he is still using the 1.3 version, how he did lost the two applications (psn and playing new games that required update), and how can sony get away with the purchaser money? again this can be strongly debated in a court, by the affected consumers, even if sony can modify the terms when the do fit, they stated that the software only cease to exist upon the installation of a new version, so which one will the court see with more legal weight.

    #94 3 years ago
  95. DSB

    @95 That’s not true.

    If you’re not willing to sign a new licence agreement, then you fail to renew the agreement allowing you to use Sony’s network. They reserved the rights to change the deal at any time, as well as ensuring that you could choose not to sign it, and take the consequences of that.

    You can choose not to update, and that should allow you to keep using the Other S option, as far as I know, but since you also allow Sony to change the deal at any time, they’re perfectly free to shut down PSN for any update they choose.

    Of course you can make an argument against that, but you won’t win. Especially so in the US.

    #95 3 years ago
  96. Ireland Michael

    @92 Homebrew and Other OS.

    Seriously, that’s all Geohotz’ hack does.

    You *cannot* pirate with it.

    #96 3 years ago
  97. ManuOtaku

    “If you’re not willing to sign a new licence agreement, then you opt out of using Sony’s network, which is bound to that agreement. They reserved the rights to change the deal at any time, as well as ensuring that you could choose not to sign it, and take the consequences of that”

    DSB i got that but in any part of both agreements (eulas)stablish that you would loose, or dont loose for that matter any of the original software applicantions when the update is done, therefore ok the can change the terms but not the software, unless it say it somewhere on the eula what they are modifying and what they are taking out,if they dont put it, well my signing is only enable to what the paper says, and it not says any of this, jeez is hard to make myself understood english is not my first language i hope you understand why iam trying to say here.

    #97 3 years ago

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