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Nintendo is “irrelevant” in hardware space, says former Naughty Dog boss

Monday, 2nd December 2013 08:59 GMT By Dave Cook

Former Naughty Dog and THQ boss Jason Rubin has branded Nintendo as “irrelevant” within the hardware space.

During a GameTrailers interview, Rubin reflected on the performance of Wii U in an interview with GameTrailers. He dubbed Nintendo “irrelevant” in the console space but conceded the company is a “worldwide treasure.”

His issue with Nintendo stems from the fact hat Nintendo does now allow its games on third-party formats, something Rubin dubbed “a crime.”

During the interview, he said that Xbox One and PS4 will do well in this generation, “Because Nintendo has stumbled.” He added, “Nintendo is irrelevant as a hardware manufacturer in the console business right now.”

When asked why he felt that way, he added, “[Nintendo's] own numbers.”

He conceded that here will be no developer like Miyamoto, but added, “It is a crime we do not play those games on the systems that we have as a community.”

It’s something I said regarding the Wii U exclusivity of the fun Wonderful 101, but I was quickly branded a Nintendo hater. That was a fun week.

What do you think?

Via Nintendo Life.

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69 Comments

  1. Fin

    Yep.

    #1 1 year ago
  2. SCAssassin

    Thanks former head of a dissolved company.

    In all seriousness though he has a point, Nintendo’s stumbled this gen. Personally I’m optimistic about the Wii U gaining ground in the span of years rather than the explosive demand the Wii had and I have to do the standard disagreeing that Nintendo should go third party.

    #2 1 year ago
  3. polygem

    i think the industry has become a lazy mainstream mess that fears real creativity and innovation

    edit:

    “It is a crime we do not play those games on the systems that we have as a community.”

    that part makes me laugh…compassionately.

    #3 1 year ago
  4. dsr

    Nintendo should do what SEGA did. It will be better for gamers in the long run.

    I don’t want to buy a Mariobox for a price they ask for it right now($100 less than a next gen console), but I would certainly buy some Nintendo games on other platfroms if it was possible.

    #4 1 year ago
  5. Dragon

    Yup, agreed 100%. Ninty home consoles don’t sell, and as things stand, will never match the sales of its competitors.

    “It’s something I said regarding the Wii U exclusivity of the fun Wonderful 101, but I was quickly branded a Nintendo hater. That was a fun week.”
    You don’t say :D
    Ignore such people.

    #5 1 year ago
  6. The_Red

    This would be true if 3DS didn’t exist. Sure, Wii U is pretty much dead but Nintendo is still ruling the handheld market. Their rival (Vita) is in worse shape than Wii U.

    #6 1 year ago
  7. polygem

    i still wont count wiiu out after i got my hands on one of those next gen machines. wiiu is different but – for now – simply so much more fun…it also has better games :)
    buy into marketing bubbles in gaming and you’re fucked. it has always been like that.
    you need to make up your own mind by actually playing stuff.

    #7 1 year ago
  8. The_Red

    @7
    I don’t think that really matters in the long run. I mean look at PS Vita: It has the freaking Spelunky on the run which is definition of fun to me.

    It’s about shelf space and the image. Wii U is dead in those terms, regardless of its games and their quality (which arguably are more than Vita’s. Wonderful 101, ZombiU and now World 3D are all awesome titles).

    If anything, having nice games is actually kinda troubling because it means future gems like Bayonetta 2 and X are gonna bomb just like Wonderful 101.

    #8 1 year ago
  9. monkeygourmet

    @Dave

    “It’s something I said regarding the Wii U exclusivity of the fun Wonderful 101, but I was quickly branded a Nintendo hater. That was a fun week.”

    Drama queen detected (as is Mr. Rubin). I think Nintendo understand the impact the potential of going ‘multiplatform’ might have on their IP’s.

    If that decision does indeed come, it won’t be taken lightly or be swayed by people like Mr. Rubin.

    Nintendo could easily make a ‘quick buck’ putting Mario or Pokemon themed gaqmes on IOS. The problem is this may potentially ruin the brand of their products. Sega has been a victim of this to some extent.

    They have 2 of the highest scoring brands over 2 IP’s this Christmas, I think it’s far too early for them to even consider multi platform as an option.

    #9 1 year ago
  10. monkeygourmet

    @8

    “If anything, having nice games is actually kinda troubling because it means future gems like Bayonetta 2 and X are gonna bomb just like Wonderful 101.”

    And all that means is the ‘idiots’ have won.

    The mainstream has well and truely got gaming in it’s stranglehold and unique / good titles don’t matter so much.

    Thats sad for gaming / gamers in general, not just a ‘Nintendo problem’.

    #10 1 year ago
  11. resste

    Nintendo console are unfortunately on downward spiral: http://blog.infoscout.co/black-friday-console-war

    #11 1 year ago
  12. Dave Cook

    @9 err, no, I think you’ll find it was a joke ;)

    #12 1 year ago
  13. The_Red

    @10
    Idiots always win. That’s how mass entertainment works. You don’t see A Prophet or In Bruges doing great in cinemas. Instead it comes down to Transformers, Smurfs and stuff like that.

    The only way good things can win is to move unto more successful platforms. That’s why during PS2 era we had super great yet niche titles on that platform. PS2 had the mainstream hits AND the niche titles. Sadly now, everything is scattered and the best place for unique titles is PC / Steam.

    If consoles ever want to bring bad the unique / weird / awesome, they need to have giant install based on par with PS2. Right now, Wii U is going the opposite way so any game releasing exclusively on that platform is hurting both its own chances as well as chances of most hardcore games (Who like me don’t want to spend $250 on a Wii U just because they are madly in love with Bayonetta 2).

    #13 1 year ago
  14. Mike W

    Nintendo just needs to reevaluate their position that’s all. Personally I think they need to stop advertising the Wii U as a children’s machine and trying to cover it up with that bullshit PR stunt that it’s a system for everybody, because in reality it’s not.

    Somehow and someway they have to get third party developers back on their side, if not it’s going to be an uphill battle.

    #14 1 year ago
  15. FeaturePreacher

    @6
    Actually it’s the other way around, the Vita is selling more than the Wii U, at least in Japan.

    #15 1 year ago
  16. SplatteredHouse

    “Nintendo is irrelevant as a hardware manufacturer in the console business right now.” True. They have thrown ALL of their eggs in to software – but the hardware isn’t being adopted. So, they get FORCED into the competition of value. Comparatively. One that they have been distancing themselves from with good reason.

    And, when you assess those consoles, unless you are drawn by Nintendo’s SOFTWARE, chances are, you’ll probably pick something else. So, they’re trying to sell software, that by design comes “bundled” with that hardware and closed systems.

    “Somehow and someway they have to get third party developers back on their side”
    It isn’t enough to have things like the WiiU exclusive version of Batman? (because: see above) :p In this climate, this closeted reserved development climate we have seen from the AAAs, HOW do they manage to convince a publisher to make them a premier exclusive, perhaps of a new IP – given, that first, they would have to explain away the grim result of similar attempts around the console launch…

    Oh, and what about SINCE then? The year it’s been on sale. Is “what have you done for me lately?” no valid consideration? Nintendo’s been doing what Nintendo do. What their circumstance inclines them to. THE DRAGONS ARE COMING…enough said! ;) Release islands…What kind of sound strategy is that? It’s fine only for as long as people are WAITING on your games. The world isn’t waiting. It simply doesn’t need to. Nintendo’s a niche draw, and in hindsight, that’s coming to cost them.

    @14 “reevaluate their position” – really? They just launched a console! Isn’t the leadup to that the time to do that? Their “big play” this time was the tablet. How much reevaluation can be done now – now that they need to program and plan with that peripheral in mind? How do Nintendo draw players from switching on other devices – seeing that friends list and becoming lost to them? The big N is becoming another player in the mix. The WiiU hardware a thorn in their side.

    #16 1 year ago
  17. SplatteredHouse

    @13 PS2 was a fantastic, complete system. Although the architecture and the styles were there and active on PS3, much like might happen with a fire, it was starved of fuel, so it was unable to deliver on the kind of scale, and drive development direction to spread as strongly, after the Xbox was allowed too much room, early on.

    I am delighted to see what may happen; that the pretender who staged effectively a popularity contest , that tried
    to force through awful restrictions (the tip of the iceberg) upon consumers and offered a distinctly ho-hum assortment of titles at launch, with little specific word on what to expect from the platform holder in terms of first-party support even next year, so far. (dat Halo if it’s actually true…and? )

    Microsoft had a super launch window selection on 360, but the playerbase filtered away anything of flavour, and then sat there gobbling chips en-masse until the One showed up – and then, they were content to start over! XBLA…Another great concept – Microsoft itself FILTERED that out. In some respects literally! The outcome stands as a testament to their focus and its attention – like GFWL – Microsoft have form. I found them to be especially bad platform holders. The first Xbox being what it was for the most part, because they were the challengers, not the encumbent champions at the time.

    #17 1 year ago
  18. Panthro

    I don’t care much for the other console manufacturers at the moment since IMO they have both kind of dropped the ball with first party software but there will always be a special place in my heart for Nintendo.

    I still consider the best console gaming platforms ever were the SNES and the PSONE… Though it might be nostalgia covering over my eyes and silently whistling the mario tune and PSONE startup sound in my ears; I don’t know but I just remember having a better time with games back then.

    Nintendo shows you that you dont need new IP’s to get fresh experiences with the same franchises….

    Mario has been running and jumping for a hell of a long time and I can gladly say none of his games (that I have played) have ever had me saying ‘Yep; I’m tired of playing this franchise now’.

    Same with Zelda, Pokemon, Smash Bros., the DK platformers and probably few more.

    #18 1 year ago
  19. Clupula

    I was tired of Mario 20 years ago. I loved Super Mario Bros 3 on NES and then the series started to get stale. I don’t even like Super Mario World on SNES, nevermind when it went to Mario 64, which was the last one I even attempted to play (only lasted a few minutes before getting bored).

    And I don’t think I’m alone. Sure,, Nintendo’s do-the-same-thing-over-and-over-again approach works with their fanbase, but it’s obviously not translating into system sales, so I can’t be the only person who doesn’t think a Mario or Donkey Kong title is worth a new system for.

    That said, I can’t imagine the stockholders aren’t telling Iwata how much money they could make selling the games to people who don’t own Nintendo systems. I’ve heard so many good things about Zelda (I’ve only ever played Zelda II), that I’d definitely buy a PS4 Zelda. I just wouldn’t buy a system for it.

    Nintendo’s days as a console manufacturer are pretty much done unless they scrap all the old guard and start from scratch, which is unlikely to happen. So, the only two other real options are stick with handhelds or go third party. Either way, it’d be better than what they’re doing now.

    #19 1 year ago
  20. Clupula

    As far as the current state of the Wii U goes, I don’t see myself ever buying one. I can name a grand total of 3 games that they’ve shown that look interesting for it (X, Bayonetta 2, and Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem, which actually made me look at the system and go, “Hmmmm…maybe one day, if they get more games like that”) and those three are like drops of water in a desert or tired rehashes and endless sequels to outdated franchises. Yes, there’s supposed to also be a Zelda sometime in the future, but they haven’t so much as shown a single screen from it.

    Third parties, on the other hand, are not going to be returning to the system. Once 2015, 2016 rolls around, you’re not going to be seeing a single third party Wii U title, bexcause they will have moved on to the PS4/XB1 and the Wii U will not be able to keep up. Right now, when it can do PS3/360 titles reasonably well, it’s still getting very little support. Once the games catch up with the tech, it will be abandoned completely by them.

    Not to mention, the lack of an integrated online network or trophy/achievement system, and the big stupid tablet controller, and you’ve got a system that should not have been.

    #20 1 year ago
  21. Dave Cook

    @19 You don’t like Super Mario World? Fair enough, it’s just the first time I’ve heard anyone say that.

    What didn’t do it for you man?

    (not having a go, just curious as usual etc etc)

    #21 1 year ago
  22. fihar

    I’m curious to what DSB think of this. He seems to be one of the few here that has a rather high opinion of Rubin.

    Remember, Rubin’s speaking on the behalf of the industry as a whole. His comments suggest that he personally does have a soft spot for Nintendo but that it really doesn’t matter in the bigger picture.

    #22 1 year ago
  23. polygem

    i am in world 2 in mario 3d world playing coop with my girlfriend….1000X more fun than i had with my ps4 yet – and i like that thing as well.
    ok, killzone is mediocore, bf is a bugfest, cod is a soso version of cod, nfs is a tutorial game…but the controller is nice, resogun is great and i can see the potential for upcoming games.
    mario 3d on the other hand feels like a superpolished game, a great product, flawless well worth my cash. i paid 49,99€ for it while bf4, which again, for now, is a broken mess of a game, costs 69,99€.
    i really just don’t get it. i don’t get gamers anymore. wiiu is a a device that’s all about fun GAMES. why aren’t the hardcore gamers buying into wiiu? it’s a great console. it feels next gen too, different interpretation of next gen but it’s unique and fresh. weird situation.

    #23 1 year ago
  24. DSB

    @22 The reason I love Rubin is because he believes that developers should play a bigger role in the industry, not because of his opinions on any platform.

    That being said though, if you’re purely looking at the numbers, he’s right. Right now Nintendo have nothing to gain by betting on the Wii U.

    If they went third party, I could see them doubling or tripling their profits. Right now all they’re doing is losing the support of publishers, hurting the platform further.

    You can choose to “see no evil and hear no evil” but the odds are absolutely stacked against it.

    Even with the biggest console in the world, they still couldn’t get people to buy third party products, so what chance do they have? I’d say that makes them irrelevant to the industry.

    But that’s also a problem for consoles as a whole, especially going forward. They may be selling like hotcakes at the moment, but they don’t have a modern digital infrastructure, and with a 500 GB HDD, they’re taking the piss talking about a digital future. One console can hold maybe 9.5 AAA titles if you’re lucky.

    This is 2013, and you’re paying 500 bucks for that box, and they can’t even fit a contemporary sized HDD?

    Sony’s PR is turning clown show, trying to tell people that digital is somehow new even though it’s been a standard everywhere else for almost a decade. It’s already more than slightly silly.

    It doesn’t benefit the customers, it doesn’t benefit the console producers, it doesn’t benefit publishers and it doesn’t benefit devs. It only benefits the retailer. Something so fundamentally flawed shouldn’t be able to survive in my opinion.

    Based on that, I think there’s some truth to the “last generation” talk. It may not be the last, but it will certainly be the weakest in a very long time.

    #24 1 year ago
  25. polygem

    going multiplat would be a very shortsighted move to make for nintendo and i really cannot see that happening any time soon. it would be the wrong thing to do as well. nintendo have some of the strongest franchises. i can see them going a portable only or portable/ homeconsole hybrid route but i don’t think we’ll ever see nintendo games on a sony or ms machine. it wouldn’t work. look at miiverse for example. it’s so well implemented into the games it already feels as if it has always been there. like iwata said, the long term focus is important to keep a brand strong. even with a struggling wiiu i am not worried a bit about nintendo. they just released 3 d world and link between worlds ffs. look at those games. now take a look at the competition. yeah, look at it….see? nintendo are industry pioneers, vets and visionaries. they helped to shape this industry. the 3ds sells like crazy, wiiu is awesome hardware that doesn’t sell so good, alright, but saying that they are irrelevant is just plain. simple. ignorant. bullshit.

    #25 1 year ago
  26. manamana

    Were Nintendo is definitely NOT irrelevant, is in the handheld business. And it would be a wrong to go third party with their precious IPs in the long run, as they are the reason people are buying their handhelds and consoles in the first place.

    poly +1

    #26 1 year ago
  27. monkeygourmet

    @24

    Maybe they are just waiting it out till they can publish some kind of ‘Nintendo Service’, just featuring or streaming Nintendo games to a device similar to Vita TV?

    They have enough in the war chest to at least wait before attempt the easy cash in which multi-platform may provide for them.

    #27 1 year ago
  28. viralshag

    I’d buy Nintendo games on my Xbox One. W101, Bayo2… easy buys.

    #28 1 year ago
  29. Derwarf

    Personally, I hope that if Nintendo stop making consoles, they pull out completely. Their time and effort should not be wasted on what I can only describe as the most selfish and small minded gaming generation I have lived through. Games are less about fun and more and more about identity/popularity and reassuring oneself of their “masculinity” (at the least). This also applies to movies/television/music. Anywho, my two cents.. been gaming since before consoles and PCs and never have I seen the console elitism that I see today.

    PS: I don’t say “fanboy” because being a fan is meh, believing you are better due to a piece of electronic equipment…. that’s something else. This is also the same regarding apple vs android and just as lame.

    #29 1 year ago
  30. Arnvidr

    @21 Not sure what @19′s reason is, but I have never been a Nintendo fan either. I had some fun with Mario and Duck Hunt in the early 90′s, but it just doesn’t engage me in any way. It might be the kid-friendly image that puts me off, I’m not sure, as I have had some fun with Little Big Planet Karting, but I felt a bit put off the last time I played Mario Kart and Mario Party (on Wii). Never been big on platformers, so Mario in itself is not really appealing, and then what’s left? Maybe unfairly, my attitude seems to be a lot of “if I can play a good game, why would I opt for the Nintendo cutesy version?”

    Also, controller gimmicks, fuck off XD

    Like @19 I would probably pick up a Zelda if it was released on a platform I own (and reviews made me interested), but what’s the chance of that happening?

    #30 1 year ago
  31. fihar

    You can’t compare a platform that has been out for a year with something that’s only been out for a couple of weeks/days, it’s not like the Wii U had a stellar launch line-up.

    Anyway, whether the company has any relevance to us isn’t the question here, it’s how the people who’s working in the industry see the company that is the point.

    @24
    Yeah, Sony has been sending mixed signals in the last couple of years to be honest.
    Plus is a good initiative, especially for the Vita, and the fact that they’ve made every single Vita game digitally available with reasonable pricing seems to show they are starting to take this seriously but then I saw the prices for the proprietary memory cards.

    I still don’t understand why the big three still needs retail to be honest. Can’t they just sell their consoles on generic electronic stores that doesn’t have a focus on video games?

    #31 1 year ago
  32. YoungZer0

    @29: Bollocks.

    You must have been living under a stone during the whole Genesis vs SNES age or the Playstation vs N64 age.

    #32 1 year ago
  33. DSB

    @26 You can’t sustain a multi billion dollar business on handhelds.

    @31 Plus just makes it even more absurd, because people have nowhere to put their games. They can fit 9.5 games on their HDD.

    Right now I have 81 installed on my Steam account :P

    Of course that’s counting a lot of indies which would be anywhere between 30 and 300mb, but either way, there’s still a lot of AAA junk there.

    @Continuing on/monkeygourmet

    What Nintendo could do is wipe the slate clean. Get serious about online, get serious about hardware and make a “mainstream” console that goes head to head with Sony and Microsoft. If they launch 5 years from now, they might capitalize on the fatigue starting to set in.

    It would still be a major gamble, and it would require titanic investment in terms of both effort and expenditure, but I think it would be a better bet than truly going all in on the Wii U at this point.

    That’s the only way I see them not ending up in a negative spiral at the moment.

    It’s true that SEGA didn’t manage to turn a console brand into a software brand, but even speaking as a massive SEGA fanboy, SEGA never had the properties.

    Nintendo has Mario and Zelda for pete sake. That’s like the holy grail of videogames. And that’s really the only way they’ve pulled through with the Wii and the Gamecube relatively unscathed.

    If they didn’t have those properties, both of those would’ve been a complete bust.

    So to me it seems like a lot of wasted effort to make hardware that doesn’t really sell a lot of licenses. Selling your own games might keep you scraping by, and Nintendo may still be rich and plump, but things are about to go south, and money doesn’t last forever.

    In terms of Rubin, you also have to keep in mind that his last major business was sunk by a Nintendo peripheral. I don’t think it keeps him awake at night, but arguably he has a pretty personal understanding of just how spectacularly you can fail on a Nintendo console.

    #33 1 year ago
  34. Derwarf

    @32

    Not at all. I remember great evenings at mates on various consoles. We never looked down upon each other for choice of console.. just another opportunity for a good co op evening. If you did…. well.. no comment. Today if you state what console you play on, you are bound to get a reaction… just like if you state you use iphone or android. You may want to check that rock again….

    #34 1 year ago
  35. Clupula

    @32 – I’ll go one further. I remember when me and the rest of the kids with Colecovision made fun of the kids with Atari 2600, because the graphics weren’t as good.

    I don’t know where #29 has been living that suddenly, out of nowhere, people are arguing about their preferred platform.

    #35 1 year ago
  36. Clupula

    @21 – I just found it to be more of the same. It bored me. I tried it out and found my interest waning. I was kinda hoping Nintendo were going to continue what I thought was a tradition of changing up the gameplay every sequel, like how they did with Super Mario Bro 2. Of course, being as young and uninformed about the industry as I was at the time, I didn’t know that Mario 2 was actually a completely different game just reskinned to be a Mario title.

    But the fact was that I got two games of the same type of gameplay and then one with something different. Nintendo weren’t going to top Mario 3 with that same gameplay, so I was hoping for something different again.

    Then Sonic came out, I played that on my brother’s Megadrive (he lived in Denmark), I fell in love with that, and I got my grandmother to buy me a Genesis, and from that point forward, for many years, my loyalty went to Sega, who it seemed weren’t afraid to take chances (at least during the Genesis days).

    #36 1 year ago
  37. monkeygourmet

    @DSB

    “Get serious about online, get serious about hardware and make a “mainstream” console that goes head to head with Sony and Microsoft.”

    I def agree with the ‘online’ part. As for the hardware… Im not so sure.

    I think Sony / MS are just too powerful for a frontal assualt which would be what Nintendo would be trying to achieve with a similarly spec machine as PS4 / Xbone.

    The people have voted. And the people have voted for micro-transactions, FIFA, COD, BF, yearly sequels, grinding IP’s into the dirt, subscriptions etc…

    For people with more sense, there will be other options: PC (STEAM), Wii U, Indie gaming etc…

    Im not saying these things are exclusive to certain platforms, but the reason MS & Sony have so much backing from third parties is because it’s a financial free for all on their ecosystems. Lots of control over the consumer and almost limitless advertising potential.

    It’s not for me. I’ve made my choice and for a good while it’ll be PC & Wii U for me as I as see how all this this pans out.

    #37 1 year ago
  38. Derwarf

    Well, a nicer place if thats the case. If we wanted jet force gemini, golden eye, turtles in time et al.. we knew where to go. Same if we wanted a weekend of sonic, tekken, tony hawk, streets of rage et al. Cant recall it ever once being an “issue” that you play “x” console or “x” game making you a lower person. How I dont envy where you grew up…

    #38 1 year ago
  39. monkeygourmet

    @Clup

    “I just found it to be more of the same”

    Coming from a JRPG fan?!!!!……?!

    bwahahahahahaaaaaha!!!! :D

    And Sega?

    They still take chances… This is what happens when you go multiplatform and the suits / shareholders start forcing your creative hand:

    http://www.wallsave.com/wallpapers/1600×900/shadow-the-hedgehog/335767/shadow-the-hedgehog-sonic-game-335767.jpg

    #39 1 year ago
  40. SCAssassin

    @36 Not to go into a Nintendo vs Sega argument but you loved Sonic more than Mario after saying it was more of the same thing? As if Sega themselves didn’t do the same game a couple of times with improvements in the Genesis times like the Mario franchise did. Also the only Zelda game you played is Zelda II? Definitely something mad there.

    #40 1 year ago
  41. Derwarf

    @Monkey

    JRPG’s do change.. sometimes the girls wear little more clothing, you grind less and they are over 16yrs old :)

    #41 1 year ago
  42. DarkElfa

    Giving Rubin press for his babbling is as bad as giving the Taliban access to a women’s library.

    #42 1 year ago
  43. dreamcastnews

    I beg to differ with the whole Nintendo should do a ‘Sega’.

    1) Sega were taking such losses that it took until 2010 or so for them to start getting cash rich again even after a small surge in 2003 they still didn’t reap the benefits and Nintendo may see a surge in sales but I doubt long term the PS/Xbox crowd would buy ‘kiddie’ games.

    2) Nintendo still own the handheld sector, something Sega didn’t have a foothold on by 2001 so it was a lack of options by then it was fly or bust.

    3) anybody who’s anybody knows Sega haven’t produced a decent title since the Dreamcast left this mortal coil, at least; if they have, I can’t think what it/they might be.

    4) why should they go third party? Weren’t they making consoles before both MS and Sony? In fact, if it’s such a ‘crime’ that Nintendo aren’t third party surely that works for Sony who started making games for Sega and Nintendo. I’d love to play Uncharted on my Wii U, I had to buy a PS3 for it. That’s just the science of things, that door swings both directions.

    5) people moan about innovations on behalf of Nintendo, why? The Wii controller was a revelation and was what the industry needed at that point, all companies need to push the envelope of what’s possible not just graphics, again , people moan about Nintendo’s stale franchises yet we are all more than happy to use the same controller interfaces for the last 20 years.

    #43 1 year ago
  44. DSB

    @37 I think you think waaaaay too highly of Sony and Microsoft.

    For all intents and purposes, they just scored an own goal with the new consoles. They’re unambitious to the core.

    They’re already underpowered and they aren’t ready for digital. The only thing they seem to have gotten right is that they need TV capabilities.

    I don’t think consoles as a concept has ever looked weaker, personally. I just don’t see how you can look at those specs and be even slightly excited.

    I’ve always jumped in on consoles. I have a PS2 and a 360 because when those came out, I saw a point to owning one, practically from day one.

    This gen, I have no idea why I’d want one. None. I would never spend 500 bucks on a box that does so little.

    I think Nintendo have a real shot. I don’t see how these consoles could ever last 7 years, let alone 10. At the very least, they’re going to need some truly serious upgrades along the way.

    #44 1 year ago
  45. Clupula

    @40 – And I was tired of Sonic by the time Sonic Adventure came out. There were some fun levels in that, but nothing that really blew me away. I never even had the urge to finish Sonic Adventure 2.

    Sega took a lot more chances in the Genesis (and Dreamcast) days than they did at other times.

    The bottom line is, around the early 90′s, I was tired of Mario and Sonic was a more exciting alternative.

    #45 1 year ago
  46. Clupula

    @43 – Are you high?!? Sega haven’t produced a decent title since the Dreamcast days?!? WHAT?!?

    Valkyria Chronicles, the Yakuza series, and all the other ip’s that other developers did for them (Resonance of Fate, all the Platinum titles, the Condemned series, all the stuff coming from Atlus in the future) say hi.

    And I don’t have any idea how you could equate stale franchises with a controller being the same for years. Who the fuck wants to use a stupid, oversized tablet for a controller? Not I! Who wants to use a remote control for a controller? Not I! I was actually a bit annoyed when the Dreamcast dropped the tried and true six-button controller from the Genesis and Saturn. A controller is not something that should change if it feels comfortable for your hands and works well for you to play. You’re not constantly buying new controllers all the time. You should only need one controller per gen (or more if you have friends over).

    You cannot have only one game per gen, so they need to change with the times.

    Apples and oranges, dude.

    #46 1 year ago
  47. Legendaryboss

    Um what to say besides stealth edit…

    #47 1 year ago
  48. salarta

    @43: You’re assuming that the Sony and Microsoft crowd is nothing but teens and adults without kids. The reality is that more and more gamers are becoming parents, and as parents they will buy “kiddie” games for their kids that are on the system. That was part of the reason for Sony making Knack. It’s kid-friendly, so even with all the mediocre reviews (which I’ve heard from people that actually played the game are undeserved), it makes a statement to parents that the console also has games for kids to play. That dips into Nintendo’s practically sole demographic.

    The handheld portion is accurate. It’s the only place where Nintendo is thriving, because aside from mobile phone games, they have no actual competition. Unlike consoles, where the competition is destroying them.

    Sega haven’t produced a decent title? Valkyria Chronicles exists. They’ve also published Bayonetta and Vanquish, two awesome games. And now they own Atlus, so until Sega’s idiotic meddling ruins the developer and reduces it to browser and mobile games like they’ve done for other IPs they have or had, they’ll have some good Atlus games.

    I think the suggestion for Nintendo to go third-party comes from how they suck in the console market, and their only real draw is their first-party games. That’s basically the only thing that sells anything they make anymore. Sony and Microsoft get nearly all the games people want on release, Nintendo gets the most recent 3-5 years only after they finally put out a new console on par with the competition’s specs and capabilities.

    The problem with Nintendo’s “innovations” is that they’ve become insipid and forced. When the Wii came out, it LOOKED like a major step-up for video games because of the new control scheme. People ignored that it was behind Sony and Microsoft everywhere else because they expected a slew of great games focused on new controls. That didn’t happen. The 3DS, while it’s finally becoming useful because of recent games, doesn’t really have its 3D aspects used for video games by anyone other than Nintendo. And the Wii U’s massive controller with the screen on it is just stupid and so blatantly a gimmick added in to try to make the console look like it’s worth buying for some fancy new control scheme that, as the Wii has shown, won’t actually get used in any meaningful way by any developers other than Nintendo or the companies that publish through Nintendo.

    I mean, just look at how Bayonetta 2 is shaping up. Looks great, but all the things about it that look great could be done just as well or better on a Sony or Microsoft console, and the use of the controller screen is an insult to the gameplay. It’s essentially hand-holding easy mode for a game that’s supposed to be a tough action game, precisely the same sort of crap Nintendo does for games like their Mario ones lately. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Bayonetta’s clothes being leather instead of her hair was a demand from Nintendo as publisher, since the sexual allusions are already really pushing Nintendo’s usual restrictive, conservative, kids-only buttons. And we know Nintendo has that kind of restrictive say in what their developers are allowed to do, because they made Mistwalker change the entire atmosphere of their own game, The Last Story, which was originally going to be much darker before Nintendo told them to lighten it up.

    #48 1 year ago
  49. Derwarf

    @46 Who wants 6 buttons over 2 buttons….

    #49 1 year ago
  50. Clupula

    @49 – You’re being sarcastic, right?

    #50 1 year ago
  51. Derwarf

    @49 Not at all. I am taking logic to the extreme, but serious. Some people dont like change, however some change turns out to be productive in the long run. If they dont try we would be stuck with 2 buttons – or worse.

    #51 1 year ago
  52. Legendaryboss

    Oh okay now i read what Rubin i can agree with the “irrelevant” in the hardware space but fine in Handhelds. But as @DSB said “@26 You can’t sustain a multi billion dollar business on handhelds.”

    Factors in which Nintendo needs to improve upon:
    Third Party Relations = More Games.
    Online.
    Specs.
    Pokemon jump from handhelds to consoles.
    Mature Games.
    Less gimmicks, better innovations.
    No restrictive nature of their own Devs making mature games, case and point The Last Story (Salarta).

    #52 1 year ago
  53. Joe Musashi

    Nintendo need to do this. Nintendo need to do that.

    What Nintendo need to do is something other than what they’re currently doing with the Wii U platform. Because it’s not working.

    Ignoring it and harping on about the 3DS is irrelevant in this context.

    Saying who wonderful their games are is irrelevant in this context.

    A CEO ignoring performance of the last 9 months and claiming that you’re going to do four times as much in a quarter of the time is genuinely coming off as delusional.

    The amount of real-world, objective, factual evidence mounting up on an almost-daily basis is impossible to ignore. Impossible, that is, unless you think writing love letters about kirby somehow addresses issues concerning industry and economics.

    Logic time:
    - The software (that exists) is frequently great and gets frequently good reviews. Nobody is arguing about that.

    - The hardware can hold its own. Some people argue about that but the software is there to show off the hardware.

    So if the hardware and software is so great, logically, something else must be a factor in the impossible-to-deny-unless-you’re-already-in-denial woeful commercial performance of the platform.

    “But but 3DS.. !”

    Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

    Nintendo didn’t make the Wii U with the plan of watching it fail and shrugging and saying “Oh well, 3DS LOL!”.

    Accusatory fingers have to be pointed at Marketing and Management. There is absolutely no question that if Nintendo were a publicly owned company, Iwata would have been kicked out based on the performance of the platform and his insistance iraqi-minister-of-information – like that nothing needs to change and everything is fine.

    The Wii U marketing falls into two areas:

    1) Preaching to the converted
    2) Eye-bleedingly awful

    When you have to repeatedly clarify that your new system is a new system and not an upgrade to the old one, you have a major messaging problem.

    For fucks sake, if the public can grasp that Playstation 3 and Playstation 4 are different products and that XBox One is a successor to XBox 360 you really can’t argue that the public is just too dense to make such a distinction.

    Again, the real-world evidence is only possible to ignore if you’re already in denial.

    And to the disgusting insinuation that is threatening to rear it’s head again (from the same corners as before, tellingly) that opinions do not count without first hand experience: the hundreds-of-years-old practice of selling boxed product already proves that consumers will form their opinion with or without the Thought Police giving their blessing or not. The problem is that the opinion formed is one that is not benefitting Nintendo’s Wii U platform and so we see vulgar attempts to quash and dismiss perfectly valid views because they don’t align with the views of a short sighted, narrow-minded, intolerant subset of a gaming faction.

    And the moronic dismissal to the tune of “LOL, guy from bankrupt company shouldn’t be making these comments”. If you actually take your fucking valium and think before you spew knee-jerk reactionary garbage, you’d realise that someone who has found themselves in such a position is more qualified than most to opine on things like ‘irrelevancy’ in this context.

    I expect the latest mario game to have long legs. They all do. But the launch of the title is a watershed moment for Nintendo. It is yet another landmark piece of real world evidence that should be ignored at their peril.

    JM

    #53 1 year ago
  54. SCAssassin

    @48 One of the reasons why Bayonetta 2 even exists is because Nintendo was the only company that would give them any backing, Bayonetta really didn’t do that well at all for Sony or Microsoft consoles to begin with. Not to mention Nintendo itself opted only to observe their progress and have no influence in any of the game’s contents.

    #54 1 year ago
  55. manamana

    @29 ” Their time and effort should not be wasted on what I can only describe as the most selfish and small minded gaming generation I have lived through. Games are less about fun and more and more about identity/popularity and reassuring oneself of their “masculinity” (at the least).”

    This is the biggest pile of horsecrap I ever heard! – games are less about fun? Get lost, you aren’t a gamer.

    #55 1 year ago
  56. manamana

    @33 well, not only but the income from their handhelds and games must be more than what the actual WiiU cashes in. But let’s be fair, Nintendo nowadays is a typical second console for the exclusives and aslong they can keep that role up, it should be good business for next years to come.

    #56 1 year ago
  57. salarta

    @54: I’m fully aware of that and have been since Bayonetta 2′s announcement. It’s why I don’t place any fault on Platinum whatsoever for being exclusive with Nintendo. It doesn’t change my criticisms at all.

    I’d have to see something that proves Nintendo isn’t meddling with Platinum on Bayonetta 2 in any way. I already know thanks to an interview with Sakaguchi that they meddled with Last Story. Sakaguchi said he thinks it made the game better, but it was still Nintendo setting it down as a requirement rather than merely a suggestion.

    #57 1 year ago
  58. monkeygourmet

    @57

    The gameplay shown featuring the fight on that back of a fighter jet seemed to show it was heading in the right direction?

    I wouldn’t get an ulcer over it, the gameplay looks fine from what I have seen.

    And, when it comes out (providing it’s to your liking), you can purchase a Wii U to play it on.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw1LaOP6de0

    #58 1 year ago
  59. fearmonkey

    Nintendo needs to come back to the SNES days, where they made a powerful console, and stop going for the kid and casual market mainly. Nintendo should wait it out a few years, and in 3 years release a console thats more powerful than the Xbox One and PS4 based on the X86 architecture and similar design as the other enxt gen consoles, and forgo the touch screen, just release a gamepad, and make it a NORMAL gamepad. When they release a followup to the 3DS, they should make it like the Wii-u and Vita, where its a separate purchase, but can do what the Vita does now and more. They need to drop the cute designs and drop the Wii name entirely.

    They should stop with the gimmicks, and people will flock to them.

    #59 1 year ago
  60. dreamcastnews

    No, I’m not ‘high’ both those franchises you’ve listed aren’t exactly Sega’s trademark inventiveness – the days where Sega used to use their own hardware to sculpt the software released for their console, they lost that spark.

    Also don’t forget that I’m pretty sure Sega was part-owned by the CSK research institute until like 2004-05 and then by Sammy Holdings, so would the ‘old’ Sega Enterprises be around to this day? I doubt it.

    So do we agree that their should be only one machine that plays everything? I personally don’t think that is a good idea. Where I was coming from with the controller changing things was Nintendo using their hardware to shape the experience given to the player, would Super Mario 3D World have been just as fun without blowing the pad to lower platforms or using the touch screen to raise pieces of the scenery? Probably not but it’s certainly not hurting the game and helps it feel that much fresher – examples of this give Nintendo their inspiration on trying to keep the games different whilst feeling familiar.

    Look. I own a PS4 and a Wii U, I’m happy with this combo, I get cutting edge graphics AND Nintendo’s franchises, problem solved. What’s the big deal?

    EDIT : Joe M, I think you’re missing the point regarding the 3DS being brought into the discussion, the topic is Nintendo being irrelevant, the 3DS isn’t used to cover the Wii U’s poor performance currently, it’s used to show there is an example market where Nintendo still excel, why would they be considered irrelevant when they do extremely well in this respect. I don’t think anyone is masking the Wii U sales – we are all aware it’s not doing well.

    #60 1 year ago
  61. DSB

    @56 Isn’t that the definition of wishful thinking though?

    I mean no offence by saying that, but wanting to be the “second” anything is not a viable business strategy.

    I don’t see how a whole other console can ever be downgraded to an “accessory” to other consoles. It’s a real expense and a real platform.

    I mean, personally that was the Wii for me. I bought one when I lived in the US, and it was a great little timewaster, but even in spite of its impressive numbers, the Wii wasn’t a huge success for Nintendo. It didn’t make them a lot of money, it just did “okay I guess”.

    I honestly don’t think any company spends billions and billions aiming for mediocrity and second place, and I think the inconvenient truth for Nintendo is that being niche only worked because the Wii was such an overwhelming success in terms of units sold.

    The Wii U won’t be. It’s gonna hurt them, and it’s not gonna get better if they try that approach again. The Wii was cool, but it really was a total fluke in my opinion. It was the little engine that could. The Wii U is looking like the little engine that couldn’t.

    #61 1 year ago
  62. polygem

    @joe: wiiu isn’t working for them atm, noone denies that but they keep their focus on building unique and extremely polished, well made and last not least good videogames that actually do sell quite well for the most part. means: wiiu might have been a failure saleswise (this far) but in the long term it doesn’t affect nintendo as much as people seem to believe because their franchises are still *sorry for the word* loved. look at gamecube vs wii.
    means: 3ds works great and sells well, wiiu is great too but noone wants it. solution: don’t panic, let’s make a better machine for our franchises next time. until then, never let the quality drop. problem solved. it really is that easy for them. trust me, you’ll see :)
    calling nintendos hardware irrelevant is just short sighted bullshit.
    also: everyone knows that kirby can change everything.

    edit: stealth edited for peace. love. magic.

    #62 1 year ago
  63. polygem

    kirby X cod

    i’d love that! i must admit…

    #63 1 year ago
  64. manamana

    @61 aren’t they making money on the games rather than the consoles? Seeing how well the 3ds/xl sells, I wonder if it isn’t profitable and ‘multimillion’ business. Considering they would drop the price of the WiiU to 199€ by the end of 2014 and have Mario Kart and such on the shelves, aren’t they going to make money?

    And of course I know that they don’t aim to be second. But in fact they are since the Wii. At least in all households I heard of, it’s 1.PS3/360 and 2. Wii. I can titally see that happen again with PS4/XB1 and WiiU, when the games are out.

    #64 1 year ago
  65. DSB

    @64 But if they’re only making money on their own games, then why on earth do they need a platform?

    A platform only makes sense if you’re making money on everybody’s games, not just your own.

    Nintendo invented that damn model themselves! They should really be uniquely familiar with the concept.

    #65 1 year ago
  66. salarta

    @58: I’m not THAT upset over Bayonetta 2 on Wii U compared to bigger things, I just really dislike 1) Nintendo being so restrictive of what content is allowed on their systems, and 2) Nintendo trying to pretend gimmicks are a reasonable substitute for keeping up with the competition in important areas.

    I’ve already decided that I’m waiting until the Wii U has at least five games I want to play released in the U.S. before I buy one. Right now they only have the recent Mario game. In the future, they may have Bayonetta 2, X, a new Super Smash Bros, and a new Legend of Zelda. Of those, only Bayonetta 2 and Super Smash Bros have suggested coming out anytime soon, so even when those two release, Nintendo still needs two more games available that I’m not more interested in playing on PS3/PS4 or PC before I buy a Wii U.

    #66 1 year ago
  67. Clupula

    @66 – Maybe you’ll get lucky and they’ll put out Tomb Raider x 3rd Birthday for it.

    #67 1 year ago
  68. Clupula

    So, all system preferences aside, being Iwata promised the shareholders that the install base of the Wii U will be at 9 million by the end of the 2014 fiscal year and they will be very lucky if they get to even half of that, do we see Iwata still being at the helm in April?

    #68 1 year ago
  69. Derwarf

    @ manamana

    Actually, you read it… So if My Little Pony or less mature/manly ip made a fun game , you would play it and tell people all about? You wouldnt the slightest be concerned with comments such as “you’re ghey herp derp”. See, I would play it because its just a game and idc about peers and thats what a gamer is…. focused on games…

    P s Your aggression made me chuckle.

    #69 1 year ago

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