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Source claims legitimacy of leaked Xbox document

Friday, 22nd June 2012 18:32 GMT By Stephany Nunneley

A development source has told CVG that a recent, leaked, 56-page Microsoft manifesto for the next Xbox console is genuine.

The site, after having conversed with various publishing executives, 3D technology firms, and developers regarding details in the document, has broken down every single page and entry in to a feature you can access here.

Since the Microsoft presentation in question was released in 2010, it’s worth nothing that some of the details may have been revised, and some, such as SmartGlass are redundant.

In response to the matter, MS told CVG the following: “We understand there is great interest and anticipation for what comes next for Xbox and we are lucky to have customers who are so passionate about the platform.

“Today, there has never been a better time to own an Xbox 360 console. We have found new ways to extend the console lifecycle by introducing controller-free experiences with Kinect and we’ve re-invented the console with a new dashboard and new entertainment content partnerships. We are continually thinking about the future of the platform and when we have something to share, we will.”

A reference to a person named Todd was referenced in the presentation, which CVG has attributed to Todd Holmdahl, the corporate VP of the Xbox Product Group at Microsoft. Holmdahl has been responsible for hardware development on Xbox for eight years.

The documents in question gained more notoriety on June 15 after having been floating around the net for a few weeks, before Microsoft’s lawyers issued take-down orders to various websites which were hosting the presentation.

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39 Comments

  1. fearmonkey

    if they go the 4x to 6x performance improvement in the document, color me unimpressed. Epic wanted at least a 10x performance increase and I would want the same, as my 2010 GTX480 GPU destroys a 6670

    #1 2 years ago
  2. The_Red

    This is rather pointless since MS pretty much confirmed everything by their actions (Legally asking to remove them from the first site).

    The detailed breakdown is nice but it all shows how little 720 has changed since 2010 (time of these docs). If they had radically changed things, they wouldn’t have need to remove the said docs.

    #2 2 years ago
  3. minxamo

    Who would fake a 56 page document?

    #3 2 years ago
  4. OrbitMonkey

    Now lets see what makes it into the final product…

    #4 2 years ago
  5. Erthazus

    4 GB Ram. 6670 AMD.

    If this is next generation, than my previous PC laughs it’s ass off. Next year i’m already changing my current PC LOL.

    #5 2 years ago
  6. Phoenixblight

    @5

    The document is from 2010 there is nothing that is official as far as spec goes. Epic had spoken to MS about the 360 and had put in more Ram costing MS another billion dollars to manufacture. The same thing can easily happen now that UE4 has been demoed to the manufacturers. In 2010 Epic had just shown off Samaritan.

    #6 2 years ago
  7. monkeygourmet

    @5 and 1

    But devs always manage to squeeze more out of hardware… This has always been the case. PC gaming graphics cards change almost every 3 months, at some point you have to choose a card and stick with it.

    If MS and Sony can get another 3 years out of the new 720 and PS4, by then cloud gaming will almost be ready, then graphics cards will become irrelevant…

    Why put in more power than you need if it’s not needed for the future they are aiming at?

    I’m currently thinking about building a gaming rig but am fully aware the difference between console and PC gaming and it’s intended audience.

    If anything, all PC gamers do is bitch about console gamers holding back PC gaming, it has always been the case that PCs are miles ahead of console gaming, if you haven’t worked that out yet you must be so stupid I’m surprised you managed to build your rigs in the first place…

    #7 2 years ago
  8. Phoenixblight

    @7

    Both console manufacturers have said they plan on another 10 year term for next gen and Cloud gaming will not be ready in 3 years.

    #8 2 years ago
  9. Erthazus

    “If MS and Sony can get another 3 years out of the new 720 and PS4″

    that’s for every console generation. 3 years is the time where games look not so dated compared to the PC version.

    #9 2 years ago
  10. monkeygourmet

    @8

    Yeah, and nintendo said they wouldn’t be releasing another version of the 3ds a few days ago… ;)

    Let’s face it, the cloud and digital distribution is coming as soon as they can get it working…

    Sony sound like there ready to partner with gaikai or onlive any day now…

    #10 2 years ago
  11. Phoenixblight

    @10 Infrastructure needs to be improved upon and that is not MS or Sony department. SO unless ISP start putting all their money into improving infrastructure it will be another 10 years at least.

    “Sony sound like there ready to partner with gaikai or onlive any day now…”

    You have been in a cave lately? That was a rumor and is not happening.

    #11 2 years ago
  12. monkeygourmet

    @11

    Sony and MS are very interested in any tech that gives them total control over distribution…

    It will prob start with backwards compatibility being streamed as people have suggested with PS2 games on PS4, maybe the same with 720.

    I would say easily within 5 years. How could they resist total control for much longer?! ;)

    #12 2 years ago
  13. drewbles82

    Cloud gaming would be useless here. Mobile internet is going up to 4G next year here which has been proven to be suitable. What we need is that speed or higher in our homes as off next year mobile internet will be faster than home broadband.

    #13 2 years ago
  14. monkeygourmet

    @13

    COD scoreboards give MS a good idea of how many homes are hooked up to bog standerd broad band.

    With optical lines becoming more and more the norm coupled with 4g being rolled out it wouldn’t suprise me to see some big announcements on the unveiling of the new consoles.

    Or at least some big, surprising link ups between services.

    Things like GeForce Grid are going to become hot topics and services that neither Sony or MS will want to rule out.

    Remember, it was only a year ago that Onlive seemed like pie in the sky (cloud), but now even I can get it working with my modest BT connection. Not perfect but I feel it’s a technology that will come on leaps and bounds in a short perd of time.

    Every other day it seems cloud gaming and storage is being mentioned, there is a reason for that I’m sure.

    #14 2 years ago
  15. JB

    Sigh at the usual PC tech geeks :(

    @1 and @5 You´re comparing a 299$ console system to a PC where the GFX card alone probably cost`s more than that, and then it needs to be upgraded all the time (if you wnat it to be “cutting edge” – adding even more costs, and a PC is usually cluttered with all sort of different processes, programs etc… Unlike a console – it`s just a futile comparison.

    If you`re only buying a console for the GFX you`re utterly missing the point of consoles.

    Btw. do any of you two own or play consoles at all?

    #15 2 years ago
  16. G1GAHURTZ

    Surely anyone with any sense could see it was legit from day one?

    I’m struggling to see how people just went into a blind denial…

    ‘Oh, it’s fake, it must be fake, cos I don’t believe it, so it must be fakey fake fake, just because.’

    We don’t need CVG and their sources, or any of the sort of so-called ‘sources’ that told us that Sony had a cloud gaming announcement for E3 or all the rest of the ‘rumours’ that never come to anything.

    These ‘sources’ mean nothing to me.

    The doc is legit for a thousand reasons, and not because some invisible person says so.

    It’s a roadmap, it’s there, we know about it, woop-ti-doo and let’s move on.

    #16 2 years ago
  17. FrankieDF

    Reading over those documents is like watching a man constantly write higher and higher numbers on a piece of paper until you throw up.
    It all sounds like a very expensive package that doesn’t stop costing you money.

    #17 2 years ago
  18. Goffee

    If the design of a british aircraft carrier can be buggered about with so much from the original design doc, wouldn’t be surprised if the next Xbox came with an integrated toaster and waffle iron, with Bluetooth

    #18 2 years ago
  19. G1GAHURTZ

    Now, I’m no expert. But I’m inclined to think that an aircraft carrier is slightly more complex than a games console…

    #19 2 years ago
  20. drewbles82

    Still think onlive sorta service would be useless for a few years. In average homes, its more than just one person using the net. For me, my Dad constantly downloading HD stuff, yet with Virgin we have a 4GB limit, he goes over this everyday and is surprised when the net is slow. Keep telling him not to download so much, I can never get in an online game cuz of this.

    Digital downloads would not work till ISPs changed download limits as for some games would take a week to get something.

    As for the specs, that 56 page document was from 2010, they prob changed a few things by now but thats prob what they were aiming for.

    #20 2 years ago
  21. OlderGamer

    Nevermind.

    #21 2 years ago
  22. NightCrawler1970

    Easy to say Microsoft, otherwise you have a whole warehouse stacked with 360 because everybody is saving money for the Xbox 720, and i think the price of the new Xbox will be around $599,- and so also for Sony, just buy a PS3 for $250, and next year they come with the PS4, same price as Xbox 720 around $599,- for those that will have a xbox\PS3 in Christmas it would be bad to launch the next generation in the summer the year after :(
    I’m pretty sure both next generation consoles are playback ability…

    Gamest industry like RockStar already producing games for the next generation so that’s another hint to say he, there is a next generation coming….

    @5, to keep the GPX card up to date, you shall buy every half year a new GPX card to play games, and every 2 year a new mainboard…. expense over $1500.-

    #22 2 years ago
  23. OlderGamer

    Nightcrawler, I deleted a long(even for me) post about how you do NOT need to sink money into a PC to enjoy games on it.

    Your just fooling yourself, my PC is five years old. Cost me 600usd, and I NEVER upgraded once. I can run Diablo III on medium settings, and that still rivels xb360. I also just bought the new civ V expac, can play Starcraft II, and Run Wow on max settings. I also play Rift(medium), Dirt Showdown on medium, and have a host of older games running at 60+fps and displaying at 720p/1080p.

    Some of you console fanboys have ZERO clue when it comes to PC gaming. This isn’t 1999 anymore guys. You don’t need to take out a loan to game on PC. You don’t have to understand techie babble either. And you do NOT need to constantly sink cash into a rig.

    My next PC, will be before winter(so my wife can duel account Rift and Guild Wars 2 with me) will cost me about 600usd. I already have it priced out. I will be buying an off the shelf graphics card to install. Hint: they just slap right in, and the one I want is less then 80 usd at best buy right now. So for less then 700usd I am good for the next five years. I won’t need controlers, memory cards, headsets, stearing wheels, sensor bars or anything because everything I currently use for my current PC, will work on my next PC. And my next PC is fully Backwards compat. And my steam account, iTunes, Netflix, etc all transfer just fine. No Live Gold fees. No stupid crap.

    But if some of you guys still can’t figure PC gaming out, sucks to be you.

    #23 2 years ago
  24. Phoenixblight

    The price point of the Next gen Console will not be 600$. Look at how well the 360 did compared to the PS3 when the PS3 was priced at 600$ and we are not in the same economic situation as we were at launch of last gen and you are saying they will try it now? Sony and Microsoft know from the Wii that they can gain more profit by being as accessible as possible and one way of doing that is the price for entry.

    #24 2 years ago
  25. shogoz

    I completely agree with you OlderGamer. Also guys, how much money have you spent on replacing your xbox 360 because of the RROD or other type problems? I have had to replace my console that I got a few years ago because I got the RROD. The refurbished one that gets sent to you from Microsoft doesn’t have the updated CPU/GPU chips which means that the same problem can happen again. They just hand you an old brick with the exact same hardware on it. My friend has had to replace his console 4 times and everyone that owns an Xbox 360 knows that stuff like this happens all the time. I have a computer I bought in 2001 that I recently sold and replaced and that cost me around the same price OlderGamer paid and it had no hardware problems with it.

    #25 2 years ago
  26. JB

    On Topic:

    “The system will be released late in 2013, at $299. Microsoft’s IEB division believes it can create a positive gross margin each year in the ten-year cycle.”

    Page 7 in the CVG story.

    Off Topic:

    @ Oldergamer – I have no idea if I`m one of the console fanboys you refer to, but regardless. I either build me own PC`s or at least select the various components for my PC. Unless you`re buying a standard configuration PC, you always need to research what kind of ram you need, which processor, GFX card, Etc… My current rig is roughly 2 years old and cost me about 800$.

    I`ve never had a PC that didnt need new components during it`s lifespan, usually a new GFX card, more ram and replacement cooling fans – and then there`s the keyboard and mouse. I`m on my third Logitech G500 and my second standard Dell keyboard – but`s that just me ofc.

    (I`m on me second 360 btw. I never had RROD I just managed to step on me first one while drunk – not recommended)

    For me the difference between consoles and PC when it comes to games at least, is down to the choice of games available, the control method (keyboard and mouse VS. Joypad) and whether I sit in front of my monitor at the desk or if im worming around on me couch.

    #26 2 years ago
  27. absolutezero

    So if Cloud gaming is going to kill off Nvidia and ATi who is going to make the GPUs that the server side PCs run the games on when they are being streamed?

    Or console GPUs for that matter?

    dun dun dunnnnnnnnn

    #27 2 years ago
  28. monkeygourmet

    @27

    Nvidia has GRID,

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-geforce-grid-cloud-performance

    not sure about ATI though… They all have to be thinking that way though.

    #28 2 years ago
  29. Phoenixblight

    @27

    Nvidia and ATi are not going anywhere nor was anyone saying that they were. In fact they have GPUs that help streamline Cloud gaming.

    #29 2 years ago
  30. MegaGeek1

    My biggest frustration with PC hardware is that its always advertised as exponentially better than the last model, but it never seems to translates into real world performance. For instance; I’ll pick on Nvidia:

    Their last gen GTXv580 was a 256-bit card vs GTX 680 384-bit.
    The 580 has 512 stream processors vs the 680s 1536
    1.5 Gbs of DDR5 vs 2 Gbs
    3 Billion transistors vs 3.5 Billion
    and much smaller manufacturing process.

    What does all this increase in power give you? 8-10 more FPS on Crysis and Metro 2033 @ Enthusiast settings, which is still below the 60 FPS standard, and all for 499 USD plus tax. Its just not worth it. Its obvious that Nvidia and ATI purposely spoon-feed the public diluted versions of what they have in development all in the interest of making money. I can’t blame them, its good business, but at the end of the day it makes me want to stay a console gamer.

    #30 2 years ago
  31. freedoms_stain

    @30, hardware can only do so much on its own. If the software was tailored to the features of the hardware then yes indeed you’d get a big boost in performance like you see on the benchmarks, but they’re not so naturally you don’t.

    #31 2 years ago
  32. fearmonkey

    @jb – I prefer the console over pc gaming, I am no PC fanboy. I do like both however.

    You are thinking like a Nintendo fan that the point of consoles isnt to keep up with pc. I have owned consoles since the 2600, and each generation of consoles greatly improved over time until the Wii. The 360 was launched with a GPU that featured unified shader tech, that didnt appear in a GPU on PC till the R600 series was released in 2006. The GPU itself was based on a R500 which was released in 2005, same year as the 360. The 360 and the ps3 had powerful GPU’s when released.

    The supposed GPU in the “720″ is a 6670, this is in no way comparable to the GPU that the 360 launched with for its time. yes its better due to the age, but you would think a modern console would release with a modern GPU. Its very disapointing……..

    Also, console gaming holds back advances in PC gaming over mass releases. The graphics in games have been held back thanks to games being primarily designed first for consoles. This could change however if MS and sony release a low end GPU, as companies would want to support the high end cards again.

    #32 2 years ago
  33. Phoenixblight

    @32

    the Xbox 360 and PS3 were using heavily modified older gen GPUs and it will be similar with the next gen. I know someone that uses the 360 GPU chipset and its heavily modified and it can play most games to date at medium setting. PC will always be higher fidelity. You get a console because its plug in and play not because its on the bleeding edge. You want that go for a PC.

    #33 2 years ago
  34. JB

    @ 32

    “Also, console gaming holds back advances in PC gaming over mass releases. The graphics in games have been held back thanks to games being primarily designed first for consoles. This could change however if MS and sony release a low end GPU, as companies would want to support the high end cards again.”

    Bollocks Mr GFX fan, it`s the usual PC fan BS – and the usual deluded tech BS etc.. The majority of GFX cards in PC`s are by far onboard GFX cards, then low to medium dedicated GFX cards. High end GFX cards are at best a niche industry. The reality of this is that games developers won`t use massive amounts of resources on a small niche of tech heads, if it was profitable to tailor their GFX shit to high end users, they`d all be doing it.

    You might as well blame it on mobile phone games, Ipad games, social games and whatever… They take resources away too.

    “You are thinking like a Nintendo fan that the point of consoles isnt to keep up with pc.”

    See I don`t give a fuck if I`m playing on my Xbox, my PS3, My Wii or my PC, it`s just silicon and plastic, the games are what matters. It`s not about the tech, it`s about what the developers do with the tech at their disposal.

    Consoles and PC`s are about different things and aimed at different markets and audiences, if you don`t get this simply point after having owned consoles since the Atari 2600…

    #34 2 years ago
  35. fearmonkey

    @32 – “the Xbox 360 and PS3 were using heavily modified older gen GPUs and it will be similar with the next gen” – The 360 was not using an older gen GPU when released, it was using a modified R500/R600 Hybrid. Ati’s best consumer GPU was an R500 in 2005, the year the 360 released, go look it up on wikipedia if you dont believe me. The 360′s card was the first GPU to use the new unified shader architecture which didnt come to PC till the R600 was released in 2006, so the 360 GPU was ahead of the curve tech wise when released. It was a midline GPU in 2005, but it was the current class of GPU’s available at that time. The rumored GPU for the 720 is a low end GPU that will be 2 to three years old when it is released. IF MS would do something comparible for the 720, the next console would have a midline ATI 8000 series GPU. Its a huge difference…. You may not get a console for the same reason I do, I buy them because I want a bleeding edge gaming exp at the time of release. Since the original playstation its been that way, PS1 was better than anything on pC till 3dFX cards came out, Dreamcast had a better GPU than my PC at the time, PS2 and XBOX were high end at time of release, same with 360 and PS3. Yes they werent the highest end, but they were amazing at the time. The 720 has a low end GPU from the get go.

    Hey JB – good for you, you dont care about graphics, thats great. I do care and thats want i want in a console. If you actually look at the consoles released at the time, they were very high end compard to how graphios looked on the pc at the time. If you dont care about that, great, but some of us do…… I laugh at the PC fan crap, ive been a console gamer probably longer than you have been alive, i just expect more from console.

    #35 2 years ago
  36. Phoenixblight

    @35

    You said yourself R500 was midrange card and as I said MS had it modified specifically for the 360 much like MS is doing with the new card and as I previously stated this document is 2 years old. Shit changes. This is an overall goal for next gen. Hardware is easy to change if the card does what it needs to do for the 720 and meets what developers can do to improve games without breaking the consumers bank, there is no need for bitching. As I said I have a friend that uses the R500 that is overclocked and modified. It can play all games at medium setting. If one person can do that with a off the shelf GPU, then you can only imagine what a manufacturer can do with a card.

    #36 2 years ago
  37. fearmonkey

    @36 – I wasnt trying to start an argument with you Phoenix, my apologies if it came out that way. we gamers are a passionate bunch lol….

    I guess I just don’t like the direction that the consoles are going to. Augmented reality glasses, motion controls, media players, and gadgets are more important than just a controller and a powerful box anymore.
    The PC used to be where all the high end graphics were and that really died down once the 360 and PS3 hit as developers focused on consoles mainly. I was hoping for a real next generation of graphics like what square, Epic, ubisoft, and LucasArts showed at E3, but it might not happen that way. I hope that if the consoles skimp on performance that they dont hold graphics back on PC. Maybe this is going to be a new era for PC gaming as the development will focus first back to PC’s, and then be dumbed down for consoles.

    #37 2 years ago
  38. Phoenixblight

    Games on the PC will still look far better assuming that the developers allow for scalability for higher end PCs much like Witcher 2 and Portal 2. Plus that is all eye candy its what the devs do with the game much like Ubisoft with Watch DOgs and that is the end of this gen.

    #38 2 years ago
  39. stretch215

    I think it’s hilarious that people are going batshit over a document that clearly is not the final spec sheet. Save the awful comments until then. Also, @23 get over yourself. There is nothing to “figure out” about PC gaming. “Console fan boys” LOL. What are you, in high school? An “older” gamer would surely see the lack of maturity in those who make such comments and refrain from following suit. Right?

    #39 2 years ago

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