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Former MS exec says Natal will fail without 360 integration

Thursday, 27 May 2010 16:40 GMT By Stephany Nunneley

natal

Scot Bayless, industry vet and former studio manager at Microsoft, has said that he told the company back in 2008 Natal would “fail” unless it was integrated with Xbox 360.

Speaking with Retro Gamer in its latest issue, Bayless said that Natal will split consumers, and put off developers.

“When I met with Microsoft in 2008 to look at Natal I asked: ‘When will you integrate this into the 360?’ Their response was: ‘We’re probably going to wait and see on that.’ To which I said: Then you’re going to fail’”, he said.

“Plays like this always fragment, and the disincentive to developers is powerful; when I’m spending tens of millions on a game, the last thing I want to do is lose 90 per cent of my market.”

Yesterday, rumors about pricing and bundle plans for Natal surfaced, and it was also revealed that Microsoft may announced the formal name of the camera peripheral at E3 – which was not too surprising.

Bayless was a senior producer at Sega of America during the Mega Drive/Genesis era, and was also an executive at EA, Midway, and most recently Capcom.

Via NowGamer.

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22 Comments

  1. OlderGamer

    Ya think?

    #1 5 years ago
  2. justiceblob

    point though… how deep will the Natal intergration be. Control menus with your hand will pull crowds in, not games.

    #2 5 years ago
  3. Gekidami

    By ‘integrate it into the 360′ does he mean have Natal in the consoles casing? Because thats a stupid idea.

    #3 5 years ago
  4. NGCes26294BIV

    @3 That’s exactly what it means, and yes, it’s a stupid idea.

    Thw Wii has done just fine without its sensor being ‘integrated’ into the console.

    #4 5 years ago
  5. Aimless

    Does he mean integrate it into the hardware? If so that’s fairly impractical, unless Microsoft are planning on miraculously miniaturising the 360 into something smaller than the Wii. Such an arrangement might work with my current setup, but what about all those people with entertainment centres and such?

    If he means integrate it into the interface then that’s something of a no-brainer, but then the NXE could do with being reworked a bit anyway.

    #5 5 years ago
  6. raoullduke

    this guy is some kind of idiot. if its integrated into the 360 and not available as a seperate peripheral add on sudenly their are going to be millions of consoles out there that are useless to the natal project.

    either way the user base is going to be split but you would think if its available seperatly and in a integrated system, at least all sides of the market are covered. this guy is a dumb ass of the highest order.

    #6 5 years ago
  7. Boris Fett

    @6 Nowhere did he claim it couldn’t be both options.

    #7 5 years ago
  8. revsoul

    Yeah, I think it’s a bit outlandish to assume that he meant to integrate it into the hardware itself.

    Come on seriously, you must know he meant integrate into the “essence” of what 360 is. To make it part of the whole, not just a “side order”.

    He’s saying as a “side order” it might fail, but if it’s made part of the “main dish” it has a better chance of success.

    #8 5 years ago
  9. Goliath

    He’s right. When investing in a game that will make use of the technology, there is no guarantee of return on your investment if there isn’t an large install base for the device.

    #9 5 years ago
  10. Aimless

    It’s far from “outlandish”, revsoul. His first comment is ambiguous so if it were just that I would tend to assume he meant integration with the 360′s UI, but then he goes on to talk about hardware penetration for the device which strongly suggests he is talking about the Natal hardware being integrated.

    Not that I’m trying to jump on the guy — perhaps he meant ‘bundled’, Natal still being a separate device — but I don’t think anyone’s wilfully misunderstanding him.

    #10 5 years ago
  11. raoullduke

    @8 maybe i’m wrong but when he says, “When will you integrate this into the 360?” i take that to mean intigrate it into the hardware.

    @6 i guess he could have meant have both options available. but his reasoning for needing this is ridiculous. its not going to split the market any worse if its only available as a peripheral.

    #11 5 years ago
  12. kallaz

    I don’t know if Natal will fail or succeed, but in a recent keynote by Microsoft in saudi arabia i believe word floting was that Natal consumes nearly 50-60% of the 360 computing power due to all the face, body and gestures recognition that the system is capable, if that’s comes true, i think that Natal will be more a Wii wanna be than move (PS), the move shows 26ms of delay, that’s all, no CPU deminish, so 360 will be concentrated in Wii ports more than PS move, don’t know if the word is true, hope it’s not, Natal seems more much superior in game integration than move, but i still think that we will need to still use our controllers, ’til no see don’t believe

    #12 5 years ago
  13. raoullduke

    i’m only interested in natal if it can be used with a controller to be honest. imagine an FPS where it mostly plays like normal. but grenades and mele attacks and things where done with hand gestures. you could also use it to give orders to squad mates.
    i have no interest in standard motion controll i have a wii that only gets used during partys for drunk relatives.

    #13 5 years ago
  14. kallaz

    I think that by integration he means integrate Natal in every console in bundle mode, not in the console itself as many said here it’s a stupid idea, but more that bundle Natal as they bundle a controller

    #14 5 years ago
  15. hitnrun

    If he’s right, and I think he is, it means the success of the Natal will depend on the early interest of Viewers Like You (sorry, American joke).

    If people lap the thing up as soon as it comes out, it’ll do fine. If they don’t, game makers won’t support it, and then there’ll be no reason to buy it.

    #15 5 years ago
  16. NiceFellow

    I doubt he means physically -c’mon guys, do you believe he thinks everyone has their 360 at the right height for Natal? That the camera should be sticking out the top of the case?

    He surely means make it the standard – integrate it to the experience. No Natal no 360. Put it in with every console like the Wii and make it mandatory for using the console – make it mandatory for using the menus, etc.

    You get a Wii you get the controls and you have to use them – there is no split between the controller as an option and the console.

    What he’s talking about is that, under current plans, Natal will essentially be optional – sure, you need it for some titles, but essentially it’s optional. You can buy a 360 that doesn’t include Natal if you want. You can, to be blunt, ignore Natal if you want.

    Personally I think he’s right in principle, but the problem is, given it wasn’t their at launch, MS (and Sony with the Move too, BTW) are now guaranteed to have a split audience.

    There are apparently around 38 Million 360s and around 34 Million PS3s out there without these controls.

    There are over 70 Million Wiis and they all have the basic controls as standard – i.e. integrated with the console.

    So realistically, I don’t think MS nor Sony can afford to make the controller fully integrated (or at least not for a long time). You can’t just shut out your current install base like that.

    It’s the fact Move and Natal are basically optional peripherals vs the main, mandatory controller, that is his concern. After all, Wii Fit aside, how many optional peripherals supporting a few titles have ever sold really well?

    #16 5 years ago
  17. revsoul

    thank you ‘nicefellow’,

    same thing i said but you cleared it up a lot more

    #17 5 years ago
  18. kallaz

    think you nailed it, also i believe that all this integration of Natal (or move) will be stick tightly with the price, so the console that has the more meaningful games, offers an expireince “never seen or gamed before” (hear this sony, NEVER SEEN BEFORE, not a wii wanna be), and the exact price point we as gamers can and want to afford, i mean i just could put 200 for natal or move, i could, but i don’t want to, i’ll feel riped off and stupid if i pay that kind of $$$, for any peripheral i think that anything over 80 is just too much if we have that games are in 60, so 140 for a bundle of game + (move or natal) is a right price, hehe maybe dreaming

    #18 5 years ago
  19. daytripper

    just hope we get some hardcore games that use natal, maybe not for motion control but for things like using your voice in a stealth game or…even mass effect lol!

    i have a feeling ms’ e3 natal showing will be a bit underwhelming, just hope they dont show games like “Throw Da Cubes Against the Wall HD” to attract mom and dad.

    #19 5 years ago
  20. manamana

    So “move” will also fail, right Mr. Bayless?

    #20 5 years ago
  21. KKDragonLord

    I’d call it Hal 9001
    just so people made memes about it being Over 9000!

    #21 5 years ago
  22. frostquake

    Integration means Pack in with every Unit sold Not in the Console you ditzy brits but the camera peripheral being something you unpack along with your console, so you penetrate the broadest market. Your more likely to support hardware that comes packed in.

    Most ppl who have the Natal unit in the box when they buy their 360 will set it up, just to set it up. PPL like us however will not run out and Buy Natal until it supports a game we want. So why would a developer make a game that only 10% would buy.

    This is a HUGE fail. Add-ons typically fail! Now when they release Xbox 720 or whatever and Natal comes in the box with the the unit, then you have nearly 100% market penetration…and ppl who got the unit with their system are more likely to buy more games for it, then ppl who have to adopt the Natal and then buy games.

    Simply put Natal should wait and just be a pack in with Xbox 720. Can you imagine the mess if Nintendo release the Waggle controller for the Game Cube. They were smart they disguised a new console that was basically a Game Cube 1.5 but the real reason was to get 100% Market penetration with the Wiimote…Ingenious really!!

    #22 5 years ago

Comments are now closed on this article.

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    As new gameplay overview trailer for Final Fantasy Type-0 HD, culled from the Active Time Report, stream has been sent over by Square Enix. The video provides a look at the history and environments of the Kingdom of Orience; the 14 memebers of Class Zero; the battle system with customizable magic spells; and the ability […]

  • Final Fantasy 15 video gives you a look at the game’s wildlife

    A new video shown by Final Fantasy 15 director Hajime Tabata during the latest Active Time Report, contains a look at the game’s wildlife and ecology. You can watch the full stream two hour stream through here, or a smaller clip courtesy of GamesHQMedia below.

  • Lionhead ventures into the free-to-play space with Fable Legends

    Fable Legends will be free-to-play when it launches on PC and Xbox One. According to Lionhead, the one versus four cross-platform title borrows from MOBA games such as Dota 2 and League of Legends as it will contain free, rotating heroes which will be added to a roster for a two week period. Once the […]

  • Win! 5 pairs of tickets to the Call of Duty European Championships

    We have five pairs of tickets to giveaway for the Call of Duty European Championships, taking place in London this weekend. The event takes place this Saturday February 28 and Sunday March 1 at the Royal Opera House in Covent Garden. Winners can watch teams will go head to head for a $10,000 prize pot […]

  • Republique Remastered has released on Mac and PC

    Republique Remastered, which was announced earlier this month, is now available for Mac and PC. The game is 20% off through Steam, GOG and the Humble Store for $19.99 until March 4. Thereafter, it will run you $24.99. The Remastered edition contains all five episodes of the game, with 1-3 available now and the remaining […]

  • LA Cops coming to Xbox One in March

    Isometric shooter LA Cops is coming to Xbox One on March 13. Already on Steam Early Access, the game looks like it’s been heavily inspired by Hotline Miami. Walk into a room, open fire, leave bloody puddles in your wake. It’s being published by Team 17. Check out the video below for some 70s cop […]

  • We have $500 of Steam Wallet funds to giveaway!

    We’re giving away 10 Steam Wallet prizes worth $50 each to VG247 readers, courtesy of Bundle Stars. All you need to do to be in with a chance of winning $50 Steam credit is to enter your details below. Join the Bundle Stars Steam group for entry in the sweepstake, and gain extra entries for […]

  • Lapsed Final Fantasy 14 players tempted back with 10 day freebie

    Square is offering lapsed FF 14: A Realm Reborn players a chance to come back to the game for 10 days worth of free adventuring. Provided you’ve already bought and registered an account you’ll be able to play free of charge from Feb 27 to March 9. Square wants you to sample the new content […]

  • Advanced Warfare: Sledgehammer looking at “opportunities” to recreate classic Call of Duty maps

    Sledgehammer Games has told VG247 it’s looking at opportunities to recreate classic Call of Duty maps in Advanced Warfare. According to co-founder Michael Condrey, players of the latest Havoc DLC are asking how Exo abilities and verticality can be added to classic franchise maps. “We’re taking a look at some opportunities to really highlight the […]

  • GTA Online reader playlist week 7: and the winner is…

    Stuff was shot. But only one player emerged victorious. GTA Online player e031271 won last night’s VG247 reader playlist, beating myself, Matt and regulars solidorwot and Revolting. Congratulations, Mr e031271. A deserved victory. We play a GTA Online playlist in an open session every Wednesday on PS4, because it’s both funny and fun. Anyone’s welcome […]

  • Leaked screens reveal The Reef as Destiny’s new “social space”

    A handful of leaked Destiny screens seem to confirm that The Reef location will be the new social space in Destiny. The new addition is likely to be revealed as part of the upcoming House of Wolves expansion. Reddit user Megamanexe4 dropped the screens on the site earlier this morning, along with grabs that reveal […]

  • Darksiders creator teases Battle Chasers game

    Joe Madureira, creator of Darksiders, has released art that strongly suggests a Battle Chasers game is in the works. Battle Chasers was a comic book from the late 1990s that suffered notorious production problems between issues and was never finished. Madureira formed Airship Syndicate after the collapse of THQ, where he co-created Darksiders. His latest […]

  • Infamous video nasty Axe recreated in GTA 5

    The trailer for notorious horror movie Axe has been recreated in GTA 5. The shot for shot remake is the work of gigerbrick who has previously recreated exploitation flicks like Machete and Hostel using Lego. The original Axe movie was banned in 1984 in the UK but passed with cuts in the late 1990s. Movie […]

  • Payday 2 for PS4 and Xbox One includes “a year’s worth of paid DLC” for free

    Payday 2: Crimewave Edition will include a year’s worth of paid DLC from the PC version of the game for free. The new-gen version of the game will be available June 2015, and includes almost all of the paid and free DLC released so far for Overkill’s popular first-person shooter. That DLC includes The Big […]

  • Yes, Mortal Kombat X will require Xbox Live Gold or PS Plus

    Mortal Kombat X won’t bypass Microsoft and Sony’s premium online play requirements. Reports that Mortal Kombat X wouldn’t require PS Plus or Xbox Live Gold started circling earlier this week thanks to a communications error. Answering fan questions on Twitter, producer Shaun Himmerick accidentally gave the impression that premium console subs would not be required […]

  • This is what Destiny players most want next

    Destiny patch 1.1.1 has resolved or at least addressed a number of complaints voiced by the community, but there are plenty more. des Destiny community manage David “Deej” Dague has put out a call for Guardians to share their concerns – or rather, what they think the community is most concerned about. “Set aside your […]

  • Google AI can play games now, so we’re probably all going to die

    Google has brought us one step closer to our inevitable slaughter or enslavement by machine overlords. Google has developed an AI that can learn to play video games and devise brand new strategies. Let me just rephrase that: Google has created an AI that can teach itself new skills, including how to play video games. […]

  • First footage of Renowned Explorers: International Society surfaces

    Renowned Explorers: International Society is a turn-based strategy game from the team behind Reus, and it looks great. Renowned Explorers was announced almost a full year ago, but has been pretty quiet since then. Developer Abbey games has now announced that the game has hit alpha, and will be open to select testers soon. You […]

  • Cities: Skylines developer commits to mod support

    Cities: Skylines will fully support the modding community. Hailing from famously mod-friendly publisher Paradox, Cities: Skylines is a no-brainer for mod support – especially as a lack of mod support is one of the things SimCity was so heavily criticised for when it firts launched. In the developer diary below, Paradox’s Jakob Munthe is joined […]

  • Nosgoth update adds Vanguard, many fixes

    Nosgoth, the free-to-play multiplayer brawler set in the Legacy of Kain universe, has been given a significant makeover. The major feature of the latest Nosogth game update is a new playable human character called the Vanguard. “Equipped with mighty throwing axes and a shield, the Vanguard can take more punishment than any human class that […]

  • Xbox Live Gold 12 month sub $40 on Microsoft store

    Microsoft is offering $20 off 12 month Xbox Live Gold subscriptions at the moment. An Xbox Live Gold 12 month subscription will normally set you back $60, but a Microsoft Store promotion has it on offer for $40. The offer is restricted to the US store. Although you can opt to grab your sub as […]

  • Tomb Raider movie script to be penned by TMNT writer

    Tomb Raider will be Evan Daugherty’s second reboot of an established universe. The Tomb Raider movie reboot has signed on a writer and a distributor. Deadline reports Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Divergent, Snow White And The Huntsman and G.I. Joe 3 writer Daugherty will write the film. Additionally, Warner Bros. has signed on to distribute, […]

  • Shelter 2 pre-orders open, launch trailer debuts early

    Shelter 2 is a game in which you are a mother lynx and must protect a den of kittens. Yes, it’s delightful. Shelter 2 is coming to Mac and PC on March 9. Pre-orders are now available on Steam at 10% off or on GOG.com with a free skin and soundtrack, or 20% off if […]

  • That Batman: Arkham Knight trailer is full of codes

    Batman: Arkham Knight’s trailer is like a Transformer – there’s more than meets the eye. The new Batman: Arkham Knight trailer contains a number of codes. Eagle-eyed users have spotted four so far, and work on cracking their meaning is progressing. According to an /r/games thread rounding up results so far, the codes pertain to […]

  • Assassin’s Creed haystacks won’t save you from a fall

    Assassin’s Creed fans, don’t try this at home. Assassin’s Creed characters can survive falls of almost any distance as long as they aim for the haystacks scattered handily throughout the environment. As you probably deduced from your familiarity with common sense, this isn’t a real thing: falling from heights kills you, the same way a […]

  • Why are people buying PS4 and not Xbox One?

    PS4 is outselling Xbox One – but why? A new report may have the answer. Last month, the PS4 outsold the Xbox One in the US again, returning it to the top of the charts after just two months away. Why? What has caused this reversal in fortunes in Microsoft’s home territory? According to a […]

  • Toejam and Earl are back with a new Kickstarter

    The early 90′s are alive and well in a new bid to bring back Toejam and Earl. Toejam and Earl released for Mega Drive (Genesis, Americans) in 1991, and the eponymous characters went on to count among Sega’s best-known characters. They appeared in a platformer, a light gun shooter and finally a 2002 Xbox game […]

  • New Wander trailer shows off Azertash form

    Wander is a collaborative, non-combat MMO in which you can take on a number of unique forms. Wander players begin as an ambulant tree called an Oren and can progress through several different bodies as they explore the environment, learning its secrets. One of these, which we’d not seen before this trailer, is the amphibious […]

  • SOMA approaching beta phase on PC and PS4

    SOMA, the new horror game from the Amnesia: The Dark Descent crew, is getting close to playable. Frictional Games has apologised for its recent silence over the project, but said it’s focused on reaching beta. Sorry all for the silence! We're closing in on Beta and everyone's working hard to get there. Once that's done, […]

  • Square Enix does not condone Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest HD Remaster

    Square Enix has said it’s not involved with a fan remake of Final Fantasy spin-off Mystic Quest. 1992 SNES game Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest is being remade by Dark Design as Mystic Quest HD Remaster. The developer is even taking pre-orders for the project. Unfortunately, it looks like it is in no position to be […]

  • New Hunger teaser released by LittleBigPlanet Vita co-developers

    LittleBigPlanet Vita co-developers Tarsier Studios have released a teaser trailer for Hunger, which was announced in May 2014 at the Nordic Game Conference. The game has been rumored to be the firm’s unannounced Sony project since 2010. Platforms are still to be announced, but the studio became a first-party SCE developer a few years back, […]

  • Here’s two Mario Party 10 overview videos, one featuring amiibo

    Overview videos for Mario Party 10 and the amiibo which work with the title have been released by Nintendo Japan. Obviously each one is in Japanese, but you get the gist all the same. Mario Party 10 releases on Wii U March 20 in North America and Europe. Thanks, AGB.

  • Clan Raids announced for Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare Companion App

    Activision has announced a new Clan Raids mode will be made available through the Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare Companion App. According to the CoD community blog, raids are time-based challenges where success earns you a spot on the Clan Raids leaderboards and new Clan Raid-exclusive in-game gear like the Equilibrium set. Clan members will […]

  • Play Battlefield Hardline starting March 12 through EA Access

    Xbox One users with an EA Access subscription will be able to play 10 hours worth of Battlefield Hardline starting March 12. EA Access members will are being granted access to the game five days before the street date, with full multiplayer and all saves transferring over into the main game. It was announced yesterday […]