Rumor: German versions of Wolfenstein are being recalled for swastika use

Why? The Nazis happened, nothing can change that now or ever, but you can have enormous fun shooting the shit out of them.

Man the Germans are so anal. Have seen proof.

I love how they try and make us forget that they were dicks in WW2. Its just so cute how they try and hide the past.

Er, the ban on Nazi iconography has got nothing to do with denial. There is no attempt to hide the past in Germany (apart from some fringe groups) I can assure you.

Than why have an issue with the Swastika being present in a historical recreation? Do they think a ban that curtails freedom of speech is a good anti-Nazi move?

Wolfenstein… Historical Recreation…
I see what you mean though, the whole thing is abit retarded. I mean its hard to have a game based in the 1930-40′s and not have any proof Nazis existed.

Everyone in Germany knows world war 2 never happened.

Lessons of the past, mistakes of the future.

They won’t allow a swastika in a game, therefore they’re trying to hide the past? That’s called a non-sequitur. The dev should have known the law regarding Nazi iconography before they included it in their game to be sold in Germany.

I would have thought the reason why the swastika is banned from contemporary use was pretty obvious. The Jews of Germany wouldn’t be too happy seeing it used again, for a start….

Is that any reason to hide away the past? wolfenstien is a terrible example i know but World war 2 DID happen. Hiding it isn’t going t make it go away.

I’m not saying that you should be hanging a swastika from every streetlight but i think a game thats set in nazi germany should have a few swastikas for authenticity.

Finding history offensive is pretty ignorant.

After all, it’s just a symbol until people give power to it.

WTF? Explain how it is hiding the past. Have they banned WW2 games, references to the Nazis, references to the Holocaust? No. So give it up.

PS It’s not about finding history offensive, it’s about stopping people trying to revive things which belong to history and not in the present.

After all, it’s just a symbol until people give power to it.

Exactly, which is why the Germans don’t want contemporary extremist groups donning red armbands and marching down main street in Berlin, while claiming they’re just doing “historical re-enactment”.

Wikipedia link for those that don’t understand Cort.

As much as on the one hand, you know, it’s perfectly understandable why’d they’d ban nazi iconography etc, on the other, it’s a different world now and it’s fast becoming a slant of germanys basic civil liberties. Maybe as an outsider/young ‘un I see it differently but that’s just my opinion really.

I’m German. Yes, it IS retarded to forbid the display of Nazi symbols regardless of the context they appear in. Note that this law does NOT apply to movies because they are officially considered as being ‘art’ (unlike video games). You can have as many swastikas as you want in a non-serious movie like Indiana Jones, but it’s forbidden to display them in an Indy video game.

As general note, I understand that Germany has to be very sensitive when it comes to anything Nazi-related, but this particular policy is indeed ridiculous.

By the way, this seems to be the tiny bit Activision forgot to censor:

http://www.schnittberichte.com/www/SBs/5982811/haken.jpg

“Man the Germans are so anal. Have seen proof.”

Sigh.

When you ban this sort of thing it just festers until it boils over and you end up with a can of worms way bigger than it had to be.

Fight extremists with education, not bans, to the simple minded when things are seen to be actively “buried” by contemporary society or government it actually gives them a kind of power, a sort of underground credibility.

You can see it in the BNP in the UK, and you can see it in fundamentalist creationists in the US.

edit: to Superfrog –

Superfrog, what you seem to be arguing is for games to be considered art (as per movies) and not for the removal of the law from the statute book. That’s a different matter. Or do you think the right of extremist groups and political and social agitators to use, promote and congregate under Nazi iconography to be more important than the very real and understandable desire to prevent some of the mistakes of the past happening again?

Fight extremists with education, not bans

I’d say that’s about the most naive thing I’ve read all year. Extremists are by definition unreasonable, and you can’t reason with the unreasonable. Otherwise Chamberlain would be remembered as one of the greatest men of the 20th Century…..

The extremists on their own are just crazy fuckers who stock up ammo in readiness for “their time”, they only get really dangerous when they start massing ordinary punters who don’t know any better and subvert them.

If, for example, everyone has seen a complete list of the BNPs policies and a good explanation of why they’re utterly batshit mental, why would they bother following the BNP?

Ignore the problem, or worse, try to bury it and those people with some sympathy for the core policies of the extremist party start to think “if they’re being buried, they must have a point” and thus support is born and they start landing seats in the EU and such.

Your typical BNP supporter will give you reasons like “Polish takin our jerbs!” without any clue about how immigration in this country works, or the employment migrants tend to take.

You can’t really say nationalism is being ignored in Germany. The Nazi era is probably the extensively covered topic in school in Germany.

The very existence of the law is proof that the German government is doing anything but “ignoring the problem”! And I fail to understand how allowing extremists to retake control and ownership of racist, extremely divisive and massively incendiary symbols will solve the problems of the sort you describe. You’re not making a coherent argument.

I mean, ffs, if you opened the paper tomorrow and read “German government removes ban on use of Nazi symbols – far right groups now free to wear Swastika armbands and march under the Reichskriegsflagge” what do you think the response would be? “Triumph for progressive civil liberties in Germany!”? I don’t think so.

There’s a saying: Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. There’s a lesser-known variation on that theme: Better to be damned for doing the right thing than be damned for doing the wrong thing.

The law isn’t new, it was enacted a long time ago in an effort to sweep the shit under the rug.

That isn’t tackling the problem, it’s obscuring it from view. It’s still there, everyone knows it’s still there, but now it’s in the back room instead of out in the open.

And yeah, I say let these fools come out in the open, because that’s where they’ll be intellectually defeated when they haven’t actually got a leg to stand on.

Cort, whilst obviously the spin on them removing the law would be pretty terrible, just like you’re example really, it’s seems to be that the second this happens that everyone will just bust out of their homes and dance around the burning jew effigy, which isn’t going to happen now is it. Yes there are far right groups and no doubt they’d use the symbols, but anyone using those symbols would instantly kill their own cause, as the entire world knows only lunatics will use them. Vilifying them to the extent by law only holds the power these symbols have really.

I wonder if Germany would deport a German baby with a birthmark in the shape of a swastika?

22 comments and not one link to scat, pft!

Some background for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_%C2%A7_86a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

I think the use of the swastika was banned in Germany in 1945, immediately after the War.

And for the record, they take this shit super-fucking-seriously over there. I’ve worked with German websites and it really is an absolute no-go.

@El_MUERkO
How about … link

Or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scatman_John

Freedom/Hunam the groups aren’t “hidden” because they can’t wear a fucking armband. That’s just rubbish and ignorant of the situation. I never said the law was new (?!). And if the Germans were really trying to hide the past they would ban WW2 movies, TV shows, games and books, ban references to Hitler and the Nazis, ban references to the Holocaust, remove the subject from schoolbooks etc. How many of these things have they done? Exactly.

There’s a damned good reason the law exists, it is a sensible law, it works, and if you don’t like it, fine. But to say this law is designed to sweep things under the carpet is absurd.

Finally:

…anyone using those symbols would instantly kill their own cause…

The second most naive thing I’ve read this year. For all the talk about “trying to supress history”, I think there are a few people here who need to pick up a history book.

Pfft.

Those silly Germans…

They’re so sensitive about the war, swastikas and Sony.