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Carmack: RAGE won’t work too well on 3 DVD’s, Doom 4 will

Tuesday, 21st July 2009 15:39 GMT By Mike

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id Software’s John Carmack has been discussing multiplatform trade-off’s with GameInformer and has said that putting RAGE on 3 DVD’s on Xbox 360 is a problem as the nature of the game won’t really allow for it.

“We would love to set the thing up where it filled one Blu-ray disc versus three DVDs, which is about the right mix, but the game just…we can’t cut it into a third like that,” he said

“We can cut it into two pieces. We’ve got two large wastelands on there. We just couldn’t make an arbitary cut.”

However, Carmack forsees no problem with Doom 4 being multi disk.

“Doom 4 is being set up so that it’s almost certainly going to be cut up to 3 DVDs versus one Blu-ray. At least they’ve got the ability because of the way it’s structured.” concluded Carmack.

Carmack also compared development on the two consoles:

“There’s a little bit more theoretical raw performance on the PS3, so we’ve got a little bit more headroom.

“The 360 was easier to certainly to get to where we are now. More sweat equity had to be put into the PS3.”

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46 Comments

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  1. Blerk

    So what’s he saying, then? That the 360 version will be gimped? That you’ll require a hard drive so that some bits can be ‘installed’? Or that there won’t be a 360 version at all?

    Any way you look at it, he’s not exactly creating great PR for the Xbox version here.

    #1 5 years ago
  2. Hunam

    He said ages ago that the design of RAGE was changed because of the 360, so they’ll all have the same game except the 360 version will involve disk swapping. The Doom 4 comments are basically the same, it’s just going to be disk swapping fun.

    #2 5 years ago
  3. Mike

    Just install all 3 discs innit. Job done.

    #3 5 years ago
  4. Hunam

    Wont work like that, as even if you installed all 3 disks, you still need to swap disks for the authentication :)

    #4 5 years ago
  5. Psychotext

    That’s the sort of thing they could change fairly easily though. Just require the first disk in the drive.

    #5 5 years ago
  6. Blerk

    They’d have to do the second two discs like DLC – you install them first as ‘add ons’ for the main game, then always start the game from the first disc.

    Bit of a pain in the tits though, and it screws over the ‘arcade’ guys so they’re not likely to go that route.

    #6 5 years ago
  7. Hunam

    It just sounds to me like the 360 is going to be the tard version, PC ftw.

    #7 5 years ago
  8. Blerk

    If anyone actually gave a shit about Rage it would be cause for outrage! And possibly internet petitions! :-D

    #8 5 years ago
  9. Hunam

    I give a shit! It looks chuffing ace!

    It’ll sell 3 million easy.

    #9 5 years ago
  10. Hunam

    Plus, you can’t argue with a guy like Carmack, it’s useless, he is 100% correct 100% of the time.

    #10 5 years ago
  11. Blerk

    It must be a PC-gamer thing. Or possibly the fact that I haven’t liked an id game since Doom 2. :-D

    #11 5 years ago
  12. Hunam

    Have you even liked a shooter since then?

    #12 5 years ago
  13. OrphanageExplosion

    Only one problem with this story: RAGE is on two DVDs and has been for a long time, hence the line about two wastelands. The cut-down in assets is actually reflected on both PS3 and Xbox 360. Both had to be compromised and a “one size fits all” set of compromises was made to the game to accommodate the deficiencies of both platforms. It’ll be interesting to see what the “raw theoretical” extra on PS3 actually translates to in terms of the final game because the last thing I heard, both were locked at 60fps.

    #13 5 years ago
  14. Blerk

    I liked Half Life 2, Hunam!

    #14 5 years ago
  15. Doc Robotnik

    Carmack, for all his ability as a developer, is a total smacktard when it comes to talking to journalists. He comes across like an idiot by saying that he can’t fit a game on a 9gig disc.

    If Valve can fit Half Life 2, episode 1, episode 2, portal and team fortress on one disc, then Carmack can do the same for one game.

    People always bang on about how shit-hot he is at coding, so why is he finding it so hard to shoehorn a fucking shooter with ‘racing elements’ onto a 9gig DVD!?

    #15 5 years ago
  16. elronathon

    @Doc Robotnik : have a read around about the game – one of the biggest talking points is the vast size of textures in use. Textures account for filesize too y’know :)

    edited for typos

    #16 5 years ago
  17. Mike

    @DocRobo :D

    #17 5 years ago
  18. Blerk

    Wouldn’t ‘vast textures’ have to be completely scaled back for console versions due to the lack of memory, though?

    #18 5 years ago
  19. elronathon

    normally yep but as I’d read they’ve come up with some pretty serious streaming tech…

    I’m no expert on this, this is just what I remember being covered over the past couple years on this :)

    #19 5 years ago
  20. rainer

    The benefit of megatexture is it allows vast textures to be used at a fraction of the memory cost however the burden shifts from RAM to storage as a result (the source data for megatexture takes up lots of space) hence the splitting up of data over DVD’s.

    #20 5 years ago
  21. Doc Robotnik

    “one of the biggest talking points is the vast size of textures in use”

    I don’t care how big the textures are, they’re all going to be the same dull (Doom) shade of red-brown.

    It looks generifiction in every way.

    #21 5 years ago
  22. NiceFellow

    Whichever way you cut it in this case DVD format is a limiter – simple as that.

    Doom 4 structured levels with a linear progression confirmed, not that it was likely to be anything else I guess.

    #22 5 years ago
  23. elronathon

    @ Doc Robotnik: fair enough, to be honest I’m not all that excited about it either but its kinda cool technology

    #23 5 years ago
  24. dirigiblebill

    “People always bang on about how shit-hot he is at coding, so why is he finding it so hard to shoehorn a fucking shooter with ‘racing elements’ onto a 9gig DVD!?”

    Resistance 2 is a fucking shooter without “racing elements”, and it comes on a 50 gig Blu-ray disc. Quit your vacuous bitching.

    #24 5 years ago
  25. Doc Robotnik

    @elronathon

    It wasn’t a personal attack – I appreciate the impressive tech. My emo was aimed at Carmack and his inability to not be a twat.

    #25 5 years ago
  26. Doc Robotnik

    “Resistance 2 is a fucking shooter without “racing elements”, and it comes on a 50 gig Blu-ray disc. Quit your vacuous bitching.”

    I’m sorry, but I call bullshit.

    Look at any multiformat game for 360 and ps3, and EVERY one will use a ton more space on the PS3 – why? Because they can. It makes development easier, and if the space is there, why not use it to your advantage. Not that it helps – multiformat titles almost always run better on the xbox.

    But I digress…

    Don’t tell me for a second that you actually think Resistance 2 needs over 5 times the storage space than ANY 360 FPS?

    #26 5 years ago
  27. dirigiblebill

    “Don’t tell me for a second that you actually think Resistance 2 needs over 5 times the storage space than ANY 360 FPS?”

    Do you have any real evidence to the effect that it doesn’t? From the quite staggering level of technical insight displayed in your first post, I’d say probably not :)

    #27 5 years ago
  28. Aimless

    It can be useful for PS3 games to feature multiple instances of the same data on a Blu-ray to reduce seek times, so if a developer claims to have filled the disc up they’re probably telling the truth, it just isn’t all unique content.

    I’m not sure why people are trying to ‘call out’ Carmack’s comments. I’d hazard a guess that he knows a tinsy bit more about developing his games — or any game, most likely — than you, and he’s hardly a clueless PR person throwing around technical terms they don’t understand.

    #28 5 years ago
  29. Doc Robotnik

    Oh god dirigiblebill, do your own research.

    #29 5 years ago
  30. Dr.Ghettoblaster

    Should be interesting to hear how this plays out with regards to releasing the game multiplatform.

    #30 5 years ago
  31. fearmonkey

    Hopefully, we will see the game in good shape on the 360. If not, thats quite a score for the PS3, to have an ID title all to yourself. His talk of slightly more performance is interesting, if he can pull it off where the game looks better on the PS3, that would give something Sony could shout about.

    edit: One thing I thought of. His technology is using that megatexture stuff, which means he has one super huge file that the textures are stored on. Thats probably why it might not work well being cut among three disks.
    It sounds like it will require an install, or be gimped, or not released at all.

    #31 5 years ago
  32. Psychotext

    Megatextures aren’t just one file for the whole thing fearmonkey.

    #32 5 years ago
  33. fearmonkey

    @psycho, It’s for static textures, mostly for terrain, which would be the bulk of the game.

    #33 5 years ago
  34. Madlink

    I know it’s Wikipedia, so should be viewed with the usual dose of scepticism, but the page for MegaTexture says that Rage will be using textures up to 128000×128000.

    There’s a link to a video in which they say the demo level environment is using one mega texture at 64000×64000. http://uk.gamespot.com/mac/action/mysteryidgame/video/6176261/id-tech-5-stage-demo-part-1

    So although there are obviously other features of the game that will use up space on the disc, it seems that the MegaTexture files will be taking up the majority of the space on the disc.

    So fearmonkey may be right in saying that’s one of the reasons that it’s hard to split the game across discs.

    On a side note, I never really paid much notice to the technology when it was announced, but it sounds pretty cool. Anything that lets artists have a bit more freedom and not have to worry about texture size is pretty cool.

    #34 5 years ago
  35. Psychotext

    That’s right fearmonkey, but it’s not exactly one file, it’s more like a big jigsaw, and you only put down the bits you’re currently looking at. The huge texture that they talk about will be broken up into blocks and streamed in as required.

    They know what you will and wont see depending on what part of the game you’re at so they could easily create different megatextures as appropriate… they just need a way to split the world / progress (which you can assume they’ve already done because they mentioned altering the game to fit the problem).

    That’s all as I understand it anyway. It’s a while since I’ve looked at the tech. Thinking about it, there’s not many machines that could load a 128000 x 128000 texture into memory and display it… certainly not a console. :)

    #35 5 years ago
  36. Psychotext

    There’s an interesting read on it here: http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/95/1

    The technology has moved on a bit since then, but the implementation is very similar.

    #36 5 years ago
  37. Esha

    Well let’s be honest, who didn’t see this coming?

    There’s always the chance they could release it on Live though, or something like that, if they lift the size limit. But this is a huge score for the PS3 and the PC because it’s actually impossible for the 360 given the architecture.

    You heard the man, those textures are so big they actually couldn’t split it into 3 DVDs, annd… installing? Sorry, no, it can’t work that way. The authentication is actually the least of their worries there. It’s mostly because the install isn’t an install at all, MS should just label it for what it really is in the NXE: Disc rip.

    If you don’t believe me, look it up. It rips the disc to an ISO and loads the ISO into a virtual drive setup, what this means is that they’re still three discs, three virtual discs, but three nonetheless. It’s not like the PS3 install, which actually is an install and can contain scripted elements and decompression, it’s just a rip. There’d be no way to join the three ISOs into one, three ISOs is all you get, that’s yer lot.

    The PC doesn’t have Bluray, you say? No problem! The PC can just grab highly compressed files off a couple of DVDs, then it can decompress those and join the textures together, because PCs can do that, you know? As can the PS3 because it’s a very computerish console.

    And imagine when companies start licensing the engine used for Rage because of its incredible graphics! That’ll be lots of exclusives for the PS3 and the PC, wont it?

    Microsoft better take their lazy hats off, pull their socks up and code a proper installation system (the like of which XBoxers lol’d at and considered useless) so that these games won’t be quite so exclusive, hadn’t they?

    *smug as hell.*

    #37 5 years ago
  38. Psychotext

    Umm… Rage is a two DVD game Esha. You just typed all that for nothing. Doom 4 is a three DVD game. I can only assume that you didn’t read the news post.

    “And imagine when companies start licensing the engine used for Rage because of its incredible graphics! That’ll be lots of exclusives for the PS3 and the PC, wont it?”

    It’s designed from the ground up as a multiplatform engine. You think id forgot to make it work on the 360?

    #38 5 years ago
  39. Dr.Ghettoblaster

    Nowhere in the article do I see them saying Rage is a two DVD game PT….looks like three DVD’s is what’s actually discussed unless you’re assuming “two large wastelands” equals 2 DVDs which I would certainly not assume.

    #39 5 years ago
  40. Psychotext

    “We would love to set the thing up where it filled one Blu-ray disc versus three DVDs, which is about the right mix, but the game just…we can’t cut it into a third like that,” he said

    “We can cut it into two pieces.”

    Besides the fact that it’s been two dvds since the day it was announced:
    http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/driving/idtech5/news.html?sid=6176210&tag=topslot;action;1

    http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/48289

    #40 5 years ago
  41. Whizzo

    However many discs it’s on I just hope it’s a damn sight better than Doom 3.

    #41 5 years ago
  42. Hunam

    You are all going to the darkest corner of hell for daring to question Carmack.

    #42 5 years ago
  43. Dr.Ghettoblaster

    Oh, ok got it.

    #43 5 years ago
  44. BULArmy

    Mark Rain and Epic then Crytek and now Carmack and id?! Who the fuck will develop new technologies. The gaming is doomed without a company that want to push the limits. And pushing the limit can be achieved only the PC. So now when every PC developer(except Blizz and Valve) are on the cosole side which will make the progress. This is so sad.

    #44 5 years ago
  45. Phoenixblight

    FYI Valve is on the console side….

    And they go to console side because the obvious reason more money on that side.

    #45 5 years ago
  46. cachucha

    looks up in gametrailers carmacks interview, he explain about rage and other kind of stuff, he knows his way with words, he is just probably tired of explaining over and over about this.
    He said microsoft wont let them have the game as installation so they have to work out a way to make it fit in multiples dvds

    #46 5 years ago