VGA 2008 – The winners

Looks like EA got some recognition in there. Good for them.

Performance by “Human Female” and “Human Male” awards? Why the distinction in species?

Shame there was no “Best original game” category listed. Says a lot about the state of things. No interest or reward for originality.

Besides, Space Giraffe would have won it anyway!

Nah, the most original game of the year has got to be Mirrors edge.

Or Left4Dead, even.

No stories about the other new game reveals? Mafia 2? Brutal Legend? Terminator Salvation? Watchmen?

Media Molecule, best studio?

I’d have gone with Criterion, personally. As great as LBP is there are some failings and shortfalls with it that could have been avoided or fixed, not my best studio.

I think there is a lot to be said for MM’s size. They are a very small studio and to create a game like LBP to such critical acclaim is worthy of the credit. Something worth remembering when looking at the sales figures – in terms of commercial success I can’t see how it could have failed.

I see where you are coming from with Criterion – the level of DLC they have supported Burnout with is huge. Then again to me the removal of local multiplayer and a retry option was a big a shortfall and failing of Burnout Paradise.

“I think there is a lot to be said for MM’s size. They are a very small studio and to create a game like LBP to such critical acclaim is worthy of the credit.”

Not really, when you consider who published the game…

It’s not like they were ever struggling for resources that they couldn’t afford.

Right – you’ve seen where they are based have you? It was still down to a relatively small group of people producing the game.

I think MM were the obvious choice. They are a small team and they have tried to do something remarkably different to everything that’s come before them. For that alone they deserve to be recognised and rewarded.

@ DD:

So? What does that mean?

This was the “Biggest game for Sony in all regions”, so you can be sure that if they felt that MM weren’t doing a good enough job, they would have given them enough funding to get the job done.

That’s why they’ve spent tens and tens of millions on KZ2, including flying people in from all over the place, to get the job done.

I’m not saying that what they did was unimpressive, but it’s not like they did it out of necessity.

They clearly looked at the people that they had and said ‘This is enough, we don’t need any more.’

A “high profile” award like this could (hopefully) boost LBPs sales a bit.

best rpg fallout 3?! It’s a good game – but the best?! hardly…

Of the year?

I love statements like this:

“They clearly looked at the people that they had ..”

Clearly. You speak with such an authoritative tone that there can be no possible alternative to your suggestion. And you clearly can’t be disputed because you’re clearly deeply involved with development and employment practices at MM and their publisher speak with such clear authority.

Or perhaps you’re just making guesses and hoping your tone will support your claims and nobody will notice the ploy?

Clearly

It’s AMAZING how console owners like G1Ggly here are so intricately interested and knowledgeable of all those tiny details concerning games and systems they’ve had little to know exposure of isn’t it?

What is the best RPG of the year, then?

HEY GUYZ! I CAN’T SPELL “NO”

Although, in the context of the statement, it’s rather apt.

Yeah, great one Billy!

I’ve been working in this industry for the last seven years, and have done so at all stages of development from beginning to end.

It’s not that difficult.

Even guys like you can get in!

Who loves ya Billy babes!?

lol!

@GH
It’s not an overcoming resource issues thing, it’s the fact a small studio can produce a big game and do well in the climate of blockbusters with 100+ people working on it. Not only that but they manage to produce mine and many others GotY. Have you got any evidence of Sony chucking resources and money at them apart from assumptions and conjecture on your part?

Oh right. So apart from evading the bit where I said you “clearly” new about MM’s practices and their publishers you just give some bluff and bluster about how working for one company makes you an expert in the HR and development policies of another.

Good ploy. Try again.

I really want to believe you’re working for a company other than a Microsoft funded one G1Ggaloo but you’re not giving me much to work with here. And considering your list of “games I played on a PS3″ ran to about 4 games from its launch period I’m not entirely sure you’re quite the PS3 expert as you are hoping to convey.

Oh, endlessly denouncing something in a variety of ways is not the same as being knowledgeable. I know that, as far as the internet is concerned, you can fool a lot of people in to thinking it’s the same thing but that’s because most people on the internet are pretty dense and never question anything unless it doesn’t fit their predetermined view.

Feel free to avoid more pertinent points and go for the passive/agressive response if you think it’s working for you.

Don’t forget CAPSLOCK too!

Shit, now I can’t spell “knew”.

Speaking to G1Ggle is killing my brain cells.

Yeah, Billy Shats, whatever…

As for CLEARLY, then yes, it’s CLEAR unless the studio is run by idiots, which it is not, and unless Sony are idiots, which they are not.

It’s CLEARLY, because:

1. Sony are known for giving people the time and resources that they need to get the job done if they believe in the product being made.

This is a simple fact that anyone who’s ever worked with Sony (which I have in the past) will know very well.

2. If MM are stupid, then they would have risked missing the biggest holiday period of the year, which includes Thanksgiving and xmas, by simply not having the resources that Sony would have (again, unless they are STUPID) helped them to get at the drop of a hat.

3. IT’S A SIDE SCROLLING PLATFORMER!!!

Ok, so it’s slightly 3D, but there are no huge ‘worlds’ to build, no draw distance to worry about, no tight restrictions on poly counts due to what’s on screen, no need for feature killing optimisations, etc, etc, etc.

It doesn’t NEED that big a team, or at least if it did, then there’s something seriously wrong with MM’s management.

Which I don’t believe that there is.

So there it is.

It’s CLEAR, because the two parties involved here are not IDIOTS.

They make rational decisions that have been made in this industry for years, and will probably continue to be made for years to come.

No-one is going to struggle to make a game for one of the biggest and most respected publishers on the planet because they ‘just can’t get the staff in’, or they ‘can’t afford suitable talent’.

Come on Billy, you can do better than that, surely!?

And I don’t use CAPSLOCK, it’s for n00bs.

I USE SHIFT, IT’S MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!EXCLAMATIONMARK

@ DD:

As I said, I’m not taking anything away from the end product that MM have delivered here.

It’s just that saying that what they’ve done is even better because of the size of the team that worked on it doesn’t make sense at all.

I don’t think that there’s any way in the world that Sony are going to let the developers of one their biggest ever releases struggle. No way at all…

If they were prepared to lose millions just by delaying the game to remove a song, then they’re definitely not going to care about helping MM get in the best staff that they can find.

As I said above, at the end of the day, we are looking at a side scrolling platform game here, it’s not a GTA sized world, or anything like that.

LBP might be a side scrolling platformer, but it also has near limitless potential within that context. At least, it would do if anyone was playing it. I log on once a week, realise that every level on the main page is the same as the week before, and switch off again.

It’s amazing how much G1Glechops knows about these games he’s claimed not to have played. And when I say that, I’m only going on the information that G1Ggly himself has provided about the 4 or so games he admits to playing on the PS3.

Power through ignorance and the shift key.

So much effort into denouncing games he hasn’t played on systems he doesn’t own.

One can only assume he has so much time to do this because there must be something preventing him from playing all those amazing 360 games on his amazing 360. Maybe it’s in for repair. Again.

What you going on about now Sport Billy??

You don’t need to play a game to know what type of game it is!

You feeling alright??

All those car fumes from the M1 must be getting to you.

You know G1Gnan, I can quite happily deconstruct your sugar-fuelled rhetoric and make you look like a rabid, console fanboy.

But you seem to be doing that for me.

I hope your machine comes back soon. Your condition seems to worsen the longer you spend away from it.

I guess all those wonderful games don’t mean shit when you can’t play em!

Ohhhh Billy, Billy!

Billy, Billy, Billy, Billy fake Shatner!

Are you a Star Trek fan, or is it TJ Hooker??

Did you see him when he was in that episode of Columbo? That was’nt one of his better appearances…

I like you man. You’re going to make my day full of laughter I think.

Good response G1G! Well played. I think you’ve proved my points perfectly.

Thanks

Come ON!!

You totally ignored every single one of my questions.

Why are you being so evasive? Huh?

Feel free to avoid more pertinent points and go for the ‘I want to ignore you now, but still get the last word in’ response if you think it’s working for you.

Don’t forget the smiley too!

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. But I guess, being a Microsoft fanboy, copying things from other people is standard procedure for you.

When you make a pertinent point then, if it’s genuinely pertinent, it needs no response. Whilst you continue to run around like some A.D.D. Microsoft loon spewing silly claims that contradict your other silly claims then I’ll be more than happy to let you run yourself into the ground whilst others watch on and laugh or cry depending on their allegiance to a box of circuits and corporation that doesn’t care whether you live or die.

I think a lot of us would much prefer it if you were playing some of those amazingly amazing 360 games right now.

I think I’d much prefer it if I was having this amazing exchange with you!

WOULD YOU LIKE TO USE CAPITAL LETTERS!?!?!??!

Come on Sport Billy.

Lets take this into detail! Lets make it LAST!

Tell me how I contradict myself… Please!

Please! Lets make this comment section a 3 figure number!

Come on Sport Billy! Lets make a day of it!

@G1GA
I’m not contesting that Sony would have helped them out if they needed it, I’m contesting that you have any proof that they did. They haven’t just thrown money at the studio. They still work in the same small office they started out in and had to paint and decorated themselves for example.

Your comments on the complexities of the game and the technical requirements behind it also show a complete lack of understanding of what the game is and does.

@ DD:

“I’m not contesting that Sony would have helped them out if they needed it, I’m contesting that you have any proof that they did.”

So in one sentence you admit that Sony would help MM if they needed it, then in the next sentence, you try to say that they probably didn’t, and that we need some proof in order to suggest otherwise?

It’s basic business practice in the games industry for a publisher and a developer to decide in detail exactly what is needed over the course of the project to get the job done.

This includes milestone payments by the publisher, and milestone builds by the developer. These in themselves will include stages such as alpha, beta and gold.

It’s standard business practice for the publisher to to make clear to the developer that unless milestones are met and passed, the entire project will have to be reviewed, and could end up getting canned.

To avoid the entire project getting canned, it’s therefore vitally important that the developer has the exact amount of staff and resources to cover the man hours needed to get the game finished.

It’s the way the industry works, so in general, you don’t need proof to make a claim that this is how companies go about their business.

And I do know all that I need to know about the size of the game. I certainly don’t think that playing it through would change my mind either.

It’s not as big as GTA, it doesn’t need a team of 50 artists and 40 programmers to make it.

Obviously a Publisher helps a Developer – your implication was that this amounted to airlifting in people to help, whilst also accepting that the 30 odd people they had was perfectly enough to do something you’ve never even played.

We are going round in circles with this one, so I’ll end it there.

No, I made no such implication.

I mentioned that Sony were spending a lot of money flying people to and from Guerilla in Holland, but this had nothing to do with “airlifting” to MM, so maybe you should actually read what I write next time.

I don’t need to play the game to know that it’s a side scrolling platform game.

Am I wrong?

Are you trying to tell me that when you get to the last level that it suddenly opens up into a massive open world environment with amazing effects tens of thousands of high poly characters on screen all at the same time!?

Do I need to play the game for myself to suddenly find this ‘mass of content’ that the reviews and video reviews of this game that I’ve seen haven’t taken the time to mention??

Errr… I don’t think so.

Just think about it for a second.

If the average Joe can buy this game and build a level in his/her spare time, then how difficult do you think that it’s going to be for a professional??

Once they’ve got the designs and the technology ready for implimentation, according to practically every single review of the game, building the levels is pretty much childs play!

I don’t need to have played the game to know that.

I don’t need to play the game to know that there are obviously going to be a fraction of the assets needed to make this game than would be needed for a game like GTA. It’s totally obvious!

As I said many comments ago, it’s just not concievable that MM would look at the staff and resources that they had and simply not get more in if they needed it.

That much is obvious.

@G1GA
“Am I wrong?”

Yes.

Ok lets go over this again. My point is that it’s a fecking great game, original, innovative, has done very well critically and was made by a small group of people. They deserve the credit.

The action of the game is based in 2D planes but the implementation is a 3D world and a lot of the extras that involves. Looks wise it’s one of the prettiest games this gen in terms of character, technical expertise, shader effects, lighting, particle effects etc. The physics and interaction of all the elements is also a big part of the game, in particular the way different materials react to others. I really don’t see what is so limited about what they have done which you take issue with. It’s a massive achievement on a console which is much harder to develop for ;P

Go on admit it – you think it should have been Epic who got the award.

lol.

Nah, I don’t see why MM shouldn’t have won.

Anyway, at the end of the day, all Epic did was build on a game they’d released 2 years ago and polish it.

I just didn’t see why MM should be given extra kudos on top of the top class job that they clearly did because of the size of the studio, that’s all.