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SCEA: Arc will have the goods to make Natal “PR barrage” go away

Tuesday, 23rd February 2010 14:39 GMT By Johnny Cullen

Arc 2

SCEA SVP of PR Rob Dyer has said the way Microsoft is currently promoting Project Natal is all in your face.

The exec described the MS push as a “whole PR barrage”.

“From Sony’s perspective, rather than go out and do a whole PR barrage to give everybody the ‘happy, happy, joy, joy’ news,” said Dyer, “we’re going to show up and have a line-up of products to show people rather than having a lot of great statements to say, ‘This is what’s going to happen.’

Dyer then went onto say that beginning soon, you’ll see why PlayStation Arc, PS3′s own motion controller, will bring everything to the table.

“So whether it’s at GDC or DPS (Destination PlayStation), and definitely at E3, you’re going to see – and I’ve seen it from both first- and third-parties – some really awesome products to support this. And rather than us go there and pat ourselves on the back, and send out press releases talking about this, we’re going to be Missouri; it’s going to be ‘show me.’ And that’s the deal.”

He also said that so far, there’s no “trouble” in gaining third-party support for Arc.

“From a third-party perspective it’s easier to develop for, you can use the same code base that you currently use for PS3 or 360 or even the Wii in order to get a motion controller game out. You can’t do that with Natal.

“You have to have a completely separate code base and my feeling is that we’re going to have a lot more games, a lot more innovation – particularly with the camera and the precision – versus what you’ll have with Natal or the Wii.We can all sit around here and debate that… but the fact is I’m not having any trouble getting third-party support.”

Currently, Arc is a codename for the PS3 motion controller. It’s due out in fall.

Thanks, IG.

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77 Comments

  1. Razor

    Oh Dyer.

    See what I did there? I should get paid for thinking them up.

    #1 5 years ago
  2. The Hindle

    This is good on Sonys front as with the Ps3 they came out with a load of arrogant statements “the next generation doesnt start till we say it does” and then they got owned.

    Good to see they are taking a different approach.

    #2 5 years ago
  3. Goliath

    Doubt it. Natal is something entirely new, not just for gaming but for navigation. If it works, it could revolutionize not just gaming but entertainment interactivity. The Arc another motion controller. The casual gamer wont embrace it because it wont differentiate itself for Nintendo’s and the hardcore wont embrace it because it’s corny.

    #3 5 years ago
  4. Robo_1

    Interesting news about the code base being split for Natal! Does that mean you can’t simply create Natal enhanced games for 360 then?

    I always thought that Sony showing Resi 5 compatibility was a good sign of how easy it is to integrate Arc into current games. But then that does fit in with their strategy. MS are trying to do something entirely new with Natal, and that’s either going to make or break the platform.

    #4 5 years ago
  5. Erthazus

    As much as i love Sony, i hate them about one thing: P R

    thats the thing they seriously need to sell everything else.

    PR in Sony was always a problem and i can’t understand why.

    #5 5 years ago
  6. Gekidami

    @4
    Well according to MS its impossible to just patch a game to work with Natal so its no doubt true.

    #6 5 years ago
  7. Michael O’Connor

    Sony: “We can make stuff sell without advertising it.”

    Yes, that worked really well for the first few years of the PS3, didn’t it?

    “My feeling is that we’re going to have a lot more games, a lot more innovation.”

    You’re gonna have more innovation and more games by ripping off the WiiMote? Really? Funny, all I’ve seen is the deluge of company backing the Natal… not the Arc.

    #7 5 years ago
  8. itsucks

    How would just “Buff yourself the shit up” from a Crappy mii-too concept, and having a decent portofolio of games to backup a copy-cap concept that doesn’t really have those games on the Wii… would make the Natal Buzz go away?
    Its just going to prove that a Shitty idea like Arc is less shitty, nothing more MR Braindead PR Guy.

    #8 5 years ago
  9. tsubasaozora10

    honestly, i simply hate the hype surrounding Natal. when wii came out, all the people went “wow”, but all of us can see that the real worth-buying games are all 1st party ones and almost all the rest are poor games. ok, now we have wiimote plus that’s what the wiimote should have been from the beginning, but the hype is gone. with Natal, i don’t see people getting sweaty in front of the TV to play a game. have you ever think how many time we all see the stupid video of the ball game (the one vg247 added today, in his 1000th version) lol? came on! pads will rule videogaming for next 10 years.
    btw, PS Arc is a great strategy for PS3 to gain ports of Wii games. it is just biz, not quality

    #9 5 years ago
  10. Eregol

    I really can’t see Natal being used for Mainstream games at all.
    No haptic feedback, no peripheral to hold, meaning you’ll never be quite sure how much more effort you need to put into a movement to get it to reflect correctly.
    It’ll be impossible to do an FPS or anything with it, as if Natal tracks your head/body movement, to get your in game avatar to turn around you’d end up facing away from the tv!

    I’m not looking forward to either Arc or Natal. I believe they’re pointless exercises and should be left well alone until the next console generation.

    I would like to say though, that Eyetoy got there first, and Sony have demonstrated that they can patch Natal-like features into the PSEye.

    #10 5 years ago
  11. Blerk

    I think they’re both equally unappealing. Let’s see you make that go away, Sony! Or Microsoft. :-)

    #11 5 years ago
  12. Michael O’Connor

    Yes, it’s just a pity Sony have done barely anything with the EyeToy since 2006.

    The Natal *has* potential. It’ll be up to Microsoft and 3rd party developers to make use of it though.

    #12 5 years ago
  13. Zonejeu

    Well, the fight between Arc and Natal is the same fight than between the Wii and the Xbox. Arc is just an improvement of the system “invented” by the Wii, whereas Natal is totally different.

    In the end, we saw the result : by creating something new, selling it cheaper and marketing it right, the Wii sold 68 million consoles.

    I think that’s just it… Arc is not really new, it won’t be cheap, and Sony’s not the best at marketing its product (although the PSOne and PS2 marketing push were good).

    #13 5 years ago
  14. Michael O’Connor

    The fight between Arc and Natal is more like a little kid (Arc) getting pushed around the school yard by the vastly stronger bully (Natal), and the little kid refusing to stand up for himself thinking the problem will just “go away” if he waits long enough.

    #14 5 years ago
  15. Robo_1

    What?

    #15 5 years ago
  16. Razor

    “by creating something new…”

    What? The Wii was new technology? What the hell are you talking about? The Wii is not new technology at all.

    The extension of your analogy is that it’s actually Arc that stands more chance of being successful, because it’s existing technology, whereas Natal is more advanced and unproven.

    #16 5 years ago
  17. Michael O’Connor

    It was new to the mainstream public, that’s what he’s getting at.

    #17 5 years ago
  18. vincentw00t

    @9

    I think Nintendo and the big pile of money they made from Wii Fit would probably disagree with your point about people not wanting to get sweaty in front of their TVs playing games.

    #18 5 years ago
  19. Goliath

    The problem I see with Arc is two fold. Will it be bundles with the Eye toy or will it be sold as two separate peripherals, since you need the Eye toy for the Arc to work.

    #19 5 years ago
  20. The Hindle

    How do we Know Natal is better then Arc we know nothing about either. Microsofts attempts of anything casual have not done so well so if Natal is aimed at that audience it wont succeed.

    #20 5 years ago
  21. Erthazus

    Honestly… I can’t understand how people here saying that:

    Natal is great

    Natal is awesome

    Natal is something NEW

    Natal is the big tech and Ark is a Wii Rip Off.

    You guys never played PS Eye. Experience is horrible and how Anton said at E3: Without a trigger it is not a right experience.

    Thats why Sony promoting wands. Another thing is that NATAL have great support from PR and you all think that it is great… Its an old technology, go look at E3 Sony’s demos on what that thing can do. Its different tech from Wii and Natal and to prove this can pnly software and if Sony will have a good Software it can blow away some people.

    #21 5 years ago
  22. RoarrrUK

    The fight between Arc and Natal is more like a little kid (Arc) getting pushed around the school yard by the vastly stronger bully (Natal), and the little kid refusing to stand up for himself thinking the problem will just “go away” if he waits long enough.

    wth?

    #22 5 years ago
  23. Eregol

    Natal would be a big problem for someone like me who talks with their hands.
    We’d be watching a film and the misses would ask me to explain a plot point to her.
    After some gesticulating we’ll turn back to the tv to find we’ve fast forwarded to the last section of action before the credits.

    Bad times.

    #23 5 years ago
  24. The Hindle

    @23

    :) I find it funny people are already writing Arc off though how stupid of them.

    #24 5 years ago
  25. Michael O’Connor

    “You guys never played PS Eye.”

    This is a comparison I have constantly heard, and constantly debunked. Please tell me how a motion capturing device that can implant a person’s physical form into a 3D landscape is even remotely similar to a camera that does nothing other than detect changes in light.

    They’re about as similar as chalk and cheese. The Eye Toy comparison is a lazy cop-out for PS3 fanboys who don’t want to believe that the 360 is capable of doing something different or better.

    “wth?”

    What? Natal has been breathing down the Arc’s neck since E3. Watching “the wand” being announced after Microsoft’s Natal reveal was frankly pathetic to watch.

    The arc has nothing going for it beyond being a Wii Motion Plus rip-off, and unless Sony packs it *and* the PS Eye with every new machine then Microsoft has already won this battle.

    #25 5 years ago
  26. Michael O’Connor

    And please, before any of you respond accusing me of being a 360 fanboy… and it will happen… save your breath. Most of my favourite games of this generation, and most of the games I want the most this year are PS3 exclusives.

    #26 5 years ago
  27. Eregol

    Is MS packaging every new Xbox with Natal Michael?
    No?
    Then why would it matter that Sony wont be packaging every new console with Arc?
    I’m pretty sure that camera + wand will be less than $50, and that an extra wand will still be under that amount. So, it wont be any more expensive to buy than Natal will be.

    And you must have missed the Sony tech demos for PSEye that show 3D model head and face tracking that went out last year.

    The PSEye can do more than you think.

    #27 5 years ago
  28. The Hindle

    Next to nothing is known about Arc so how do you know it has next to nothing going for it? Do you know what games it has in development or how the games will use the device?

    Microsoft have been hyping Natal yes but Sony will reveal thiers more when they have games to show the software at its best.

    Have you actually played Natal to know its going to own the Arc?

    #28 5 years ago
  29. Michael O’Connor

    “Is MS packaging every new Xbox with Natal Michael?”

    There has been lots of speculation and rumour that yes, in fact, Microsoft will be packing the Natal with every new Xbox 360 after it launches: http://www.oxm.co.uk/article.php?id=14296 So the chances are very, very high.

    “And you must have missed the Sony tech demos for PSEye that show 3D model head and face tracking that went out last year.”

    That is nothing more than very smart manipulation of its already existing fuctions. That does not make it a motion capturing device, nor can it do any of the Natal’s unique functions.

    “Have you actually played Natal to know its going to own the Arc? Thats about the biggest fanboy statement ive read on this site so far.”

    No I haven’t, but then, you seem to be under the delusion that the average consumer cares about quality. If they did, the Wii would never have sold as well as it does.

    I’m talking from a consumer perspective, not a personal perspective, and the quality of a game or product is one of the least significant factors in selling it – consumer interest, smart advertising and sales strategies, and targeting the right market is all that matters.

    #29 5 years ago
  30. Eregol

    I have yet to see any proof that Natal will be any more than a PSEye with bells and whistles.
    They’ve not shown it doing anything that the PSEye cannot do.

    1:1 movement with PSEye will be a plus too.

    #30 5 years ago
  31. The Hindle

    Youre a fan of Playstation exclusives Micheal so if From Software or Media Molecule or ND made a motion control game you would still write it off?

    #31 5 years ago
  32. The Hindle

    The Arc will be easier to market then Natal in my opinion as people will look at it and think oh thats the Playstations version of the Wii remote.

    How you would market Natal i dont know. How do you get across that it doesnt require a controller it would confuse the average consumer.

    #32 5 years ago
  33. Quiiick

    @ #26
    A 360 fanboy disguised as a PS3 fanboy. But a fanboy non the less.

    #33 5 years ago
  34. NiceFellow

    @23 – I’m not going to call you a fanboy, and Arc does look a lot like a Wiimote – but I reckon it’s got more chance of being better for games as a result – nothing I’ve seen on Natal looks good IMHO. Everything has looked worse than what Wii does, so by my reckoning at least Sony will be able to match the Wii experience whereas Natal I think just looks unplayable.

    Love it as an interface, though. I want it hooked up to my PC asap so I can start giving it some Minority Report style access.

    #34 5 years ago
  35. Michael O’Connor

    “Youre a fan of Playstation exclusives Micheal so if From Software or Media Molecule or ND made a motion control game you would still write it off?”

    Not if it they’re good, no (though last time I checked, From Software made 360 games as well), but my main point was never about quality, but its consumer potential.

    That said, I’m not going to ignore the fact that the Arc is little more than a glorified WiiMote. Yes, I *do* think its sad and pathetic of Sony, a company who is regularly innovative and creative with its game, to so blatantly rip-off the competition. That’s usually Microsoft’s thing.

    (Oh look, I just insulted Microsft! Don’t die of shock!)

    “They’ve not shown it doing anything that the PSEye cannot do.”

    Right… well… when they start releasing games using the motion captured movements of an actual person on the PS3… we can discuss that point.

    “A 360 fanboy disguised as a PS3 fanboy. But a fanboy non the less.”

    If you’re going to troll, try harder please. My copy of Heavy Rain isn’t going to play itself, so I’d at least appreciate it if you made an insult with some substance behind it.

    #35 5 years ago
  36. Quiiick

    The only real problem I see with the “arc” is that it is comprised of two items. You can’t use the arc without the PS3eye. That’s complicated for marketing this thing and it makes it more expensive than “natal” from the get go.

    #36 5 years ago
  37. Michael O’Connor

    Valid point, Quiiick. If they don’t package both together, most people won’t care, and if they don’t package it with the machine, even less people will care.

    Obviously this applies to Microsoft as well. All hints suggest that it *will* come packaged with the 360, but if it doesn’t… then Microsoft are just as stupid. The WiiMote concept would never have taken off if it had simply been an add-on to an existing console.

    #37 5 years ago
  38. Seraphemz

    Michael – same can be said for the ‘Arc’

    and at E3 Sony wasn’t the one showing ‘smoke and mirrors’

    #38 5 years ago
  39. OlderGamer

    A couple of things

    Way too many fanboys wearing rose tinited glasses on this site.

    Natal and Arc will both underachieve.

    Both will be too expensive, too combersom to use, too ambitious to pull off, and unless they are 100% packed in(read given away for free) both will be a flop.

    Hardecore PS3/XB360 owning gamers don’t want to play motion controlled games. Those few that do, also own a Wii. The Mrs and me played Wii Sports last night, good times.

    The massive amount of Casual Gamers that would be interested in casual motion controls, already are one of the near 70million Wii owners.

    I do not believe that there are gamers out there thinking that if only they could play Halo, Uncharted, or BFBC2 while waving their hands through the air, their lives would be more full filling. Its a dumb idea.

    Who needs to use motion controls to start a movie? Is something somehow wrong with a remote or controler? How does moving your arm instead of pressing one button make more sense? Its a dumb idea.

    Ever play Lair? I did it was bad. Decent enough game, that had such bad motion controls it got patched post release so it could be played via standard duel analog sticks. How is Arc going to improve on that? Is Lair 2 going to benifit from motion controls? Its a dumb idea.

    Ever play a Wii? Most of the good games are 1st party. Most of the good controling games are either uber simple, or they incorperate the analog stick atachment for the Wiimote. Zelda, Metriod, Mario Galaxy all use a traditional analog thumb stick in your hand to perform basic char movements. The Wiimote is used to enhance char actions. Is the Arc going to also have an anolog stick that can be attached? Will Natal have buttons to press?

    Alot of question. More doubts then answers. And it all boils down to Sony, MS, and their respective Core audiences trying to figure out why Nintendo did so well with Wii. And of course trying to mimic it.

    Simple answer:

    Different demographics. My 70 yr old folks own and use a Wii. No way they are going to buy a PS3 or a XB360 because of ARC or Natal.

    And ask yourself, do you really want to play the next Jax and Dextar or Banjo games as Mario Galaxy clones? Are you excited Xbox360 Fit Around the World? How does Little Big Planet Mini Game Battle Royal sound?

    Beware the wolf is sheeps clothing. Becareful of what you wish for.

    If you want to play a Wii, buy a Wii.

    #39 5 years ago
  40. Quiiick

    @ #35
    Relax! Don’t be so dead serious. My comment (#33) wasn’t meant to be insulting. I was only joking.
    Calm down please, even if you get all the heat in this thread.

    #40 5 years ago
  41. Michael O’Connor

    “and at E3 Sony wasn’t the one showing ’smoke and mirrors’”

    Smoke and mirrors? That’s unny, I distinctly recall numerous live presentations of the software…

    “Unless they are 100% packed in(read given away for free) both will be a flop.”

    Then its a good thing that all hints suggest that the Natal will be packed in with the console, right?

    I’m calling it now. See you guys at E3.

    “Are you excited Xbox360 Fit Around the World?”

    Yes I am, actually. A fitness product that requires you to actual BE PHYSICAL ACTIVE is a hell of a lot more awesome than standing on a giant steel box.

    Lets not forget that everyone thought the Wii would be a flop. “Nobody wants to move around while playing games”. How wrong they were…

    “Relax! Don’t be so dead serious. My comment (#33) wasn’t meant to be insulting. I was only joking.”

    I’m entirely calm. I’m practically a living Vulcan. *laughs*

    I simply responded to your accusation that I was a fanboy, which you said in a fairly direct manner with absolutely no hints of humour. Please feel free to show me the exclamation points or other such signs to show that I wasn’t calm.

    Apparently people don’t like discourse. Kinda defeats the point of posting on the internet if you don’t.

    #41 5 years ago
  42. Gekidami

    “That said, I’m not going to ignore the fact that the Arc is little more than a glorified WiiMote. Yes, I *do* think its sad and pathetic of Sony, a company who is regularly innovative and creative with its game, to so blatantly rip-off the competition.”

    You know, Sony have been messing around with colour tracking (the main part of ARC) for quite some time. Hell, they even demoed it the same day they revealed the PS3 (And yes, the guy from both those videos is the same guy that presented the wand at E3 09).

    On a sidenote Media Molecule have already showed LBP working with ARC.

    #42 5 years ago
  43. Michael O’Connor

    I fail to see your point, Geki. It’s still a rip-off in concept, if not in how its executed.

    Obviously they needed to invent new hardware since the WiiMote is patented by Nintendo, but at the end of the day it does exactly the same thing as the Wii Motion Plus does, depth of field tracking of a physical object.

    Natal is a motion capturing device. It detects the entire human body and can transpose it into a game as a physical object. The *potential* for that is huge. Whether companies can actually take advantage of that potential is another matter.

    #43 5 years ago
  44. OlderGamer

    #41 packing it in with new consoles is a good start. But our house owns 3 xb360s and 2 PS3s, we won’t be buying another xb360 for natal. Are they going to give us three or even one natal set up? Doubt it.

    Giving it away for new consumers is a good idea, but it won’t help the already estanblished user base.

    Do you use Wii Fit?

    we own it, you can do several exercises w/o the board. Infact several Wii exercise games don’t use the board at all. You physicly move around. Even with the baord, its more about balance then just standing there. I am not preaching about it, but lest I know what it does and doesn’t do. No bias slant.

    #44 5 years ago
  45. get2sammyb

    Your points irritate me a little Michael. Have you played EyePet per chance? That thing is pretty close to augmented reality, and it was done last year, in 2009.

    I’m not going to say Natal is good for nothing, and I’m sure it’s going to outsell Arc. But for quality experiences I’d hedge a bet with Sony’s development studios. Sony Studio London and Sony Studio Cambridge have been making these “kind” of experiences for years — it would be naive to think just because they have some new tech, a developer like Rare can jump in a beat those studios at their own game.

    Natal will outsell Arc and will probably get more support than Arc — either way I’d wait and see what the in-house studios have to offer before you write it off. Sony’s European teams are VERY creative — and it’ll be interesting to see what a studio like Japan Studio can come up with for Arc too.

    Either way, I still stand that we’ve seen MUCH MORE practical use for Arc than Natal at this stage. Microsoft are still sticking with that Ricochet demo, that frankly does not look fun. And if anyone expect Milo to be a reality, they indeed are dreaming. A side-project at Lionhead managing to create artificial life that an organisation such as NASA couldn’t manage? Yeah right.

    People can talk about potential all they like (and Microsoft have done), it’s time to show. I think it’s going to get VERY interesting when Sony show their hand.

    Word is Studio Cambridge are working on the “blockbuster” title for this device, and apparently Sony have a lot of “core” support for the device too. Again, it might not be a hit commercially, but that doesn’t make it “shit” or “worse than Natal”.

    Given the levels of hype (particularly from people who hate the Wii), I expect a huge backlash when the inevitable XBOX Fitness game becomes the staple of Natal’s lineup.

    #45 5 years ago
  46. Erthazus

    @ Michael, sorry but it is the same thing from person who is trying to make lame excuse: I’m not a fanboy i have all 3 consoles…

    Its just the person who have more money to spent on their hobby or GAMES (!). You can have all systems or like some games from other system but you can have your favourite system that you can defend all the time. I for example have all systems (except of 360 because i’m afraid of RROD. I have all systems since NES and everything works fine. when they will solve problem with Red Ring Of Death i will buy console, or i’m starting to think about Arcade version of it because Alan Wake will be amazing and it is cancelled on my PC =() and i prefer to play on my PC more then all my devices combined even if they have much better games. Not just better games… MUCH, MUCH BETTER GAMES.

    Michael you are an Xbot.

    Second, if you never played Playstation Eye games then i can’t talk with you seriously. In the tech they are absolutely similar except that Natal can use technology further with 3D motion capture. Basically you will just have better games VISUALLY right? Right.

    but sitting in front of your TV and shit, does not improve your experience a bit. Its the same thing with wands, but with accuracy wand such as Playstation motion controller you can FEEL the trigger and movement and especially your character.

    you will understand that if you will but PS Eye and try it. Buy it and try to play with some 1st party games and after that you will say: Yeah, thats really is a sucky experience.

    Natal and PS Eye is the same experience except that Natal have enhanced features that improve visual experience ONLY! you can create games like Milo and Kate YES (and you are wating for the game like that with artificial life??? Lol), but games like Ricochet and dynamic games simply suck ass. Microsoft still stick with that stupid Ricochet demo and it still not fun.

    #46 5 years ago
  47. The Hindle

    OG just summed it up perfectly in comment 39.

    #47 5 years ago
  48. Michael O’Connor

    “#41 packing it in with new consoles is a good start. But our house owns 3 xb360s and 2 PS3s, we won’t be buying another xb360 for natal. Are they going to give us three or even one natal set up? Doubt it.”

    Obviously not, but you can just buy one and share it out. Like you said, its a start. And if Microsoft pack it with the machine and Sony doesn’t, the battle between the two is already won.

    I never said it would be the Wii. That would be stupid. That’s not the point though. I will be very surprised if Sony are still supporting the Arc as a significant part of the console’s experience two years down the line.

    “Do you use Wii Fit?”

    Yes, I do have Wii Fit. My sister once broke her leg using the thing. You’re also limited to a very specific point while using it, which is retarded.

    “Different demographics. My 70 yr old folks own and use a Wii. No way they are going to buy a PS3 or a XB360 because of ARC or Natal.”

    Maybe if you show it to them, and it comes out with some genuinely inventive games, it might. You never know. Stranger things have happened…

    Who ever thought Nintendo would be the leader in generation, for example? Who ever thought Sony would topple Nintendo in the 90s? Who ever thought that Microsoft would become a significant part of the gaming landscape?

    Nobody. It’s an unpredictable industry. At the end of the day, all we’re all doing is guessing really. My money is on Natal.

    #48 5 years ago
  49. Michael O’Connor

    “You can have all systems or like some games from other system but you can have your favourite system that you can defend all the time”

    I defend Sony and Nintendo constantly. I constantly debunk people’s accusations that the Wii is nothing more than a shovelware console, and I always defend the fact that Sony is far more creatively diverse and challenging with its games.

    That doesn’t mean I have to like the Arc.

    “when they will solve problem with Red Ring Of Death i will buy console.”

    They solved the problems with the RROD years ago.

    “Second, if you never played Playstation Eye games then i can’t talk with you seriously.”

    I owe one, and I also have the original EyeToy and numerous games for it, but thanks for assuming.

    “Basically you will just have better games VISUALLY right? Right.”

    No, I’m saying the potential of putting your own physical body into a game is huge. The *potential*. There is no more potential with the Arc than there is with the Wii, and I already own a Wii.

    “you can create games like Milo and Kate”

    I will point out right now that Milo and Kate is a terrible example of what Natal is capable of. That game *could* easily be done with the PlayStation Eye. I’m not going to deny that for a second. But I’m more interested in the concept of Milo and Kate than I am with the technology behind it – I’d buy it regardless of what console it was on.

    “Have you played EyePet per chance? That thing is pretty close to augmented reality, and it was done last year, in 2009.”

    Yes I have. It’s quite fun. That doesn’t mean I think the Arc will be a success. EyePet was the first game in years to make the Eye remotely relevant. If that’s the kind of support they end up giving the Arc…

    “Either way, I still stand that we’ve seen MUCH MORE practical use for Arc than Natal at this stage.”

    I’m far more interested in new experience than treading the same ground. And the Arc treads far too familiar ground.

    #49 5 years ago
  50. get2sammyb

    What new experience have you SEEN from Natal then Michael? Honestly?

    You seem to berate other posters for assuming, but in all honesty I think you’re assuming a lot of what’s possible with Natal — and you’re drawing your assumptions from the PR that Microsoft have fed you.

    I also think you’re judging success by sales rather than experience.

    #50 5 years ago
  51. Michael O’Connor

    “I also think you’re judging success by sales rather than experience.”

    I already said I’m arguing consumer interest, not personal interest.

    “You’re drawing your assumptions from the PR that Microsoft have fed you.”

    No, I’m drawing my assumptions from the tech demos they showed. Soccer games where you physically kick the ball during penalties. Tennis games using an actual racket. Fitness titles that actually require you to move around properly. The multiplayer potential is also interesting to consider. And those are just the ideas off the top of my head.

    But hey, I guess I’m different from most gamers seeing as I actually *like* the idea of being physically active…

    #51 5 years ago
  52. Gekidami

    “It’s still a rip-off in concept, if not in how its executed.”

    Like Natal with the EyeToy you mean? Sure in execution… (you know where this is going).

    “Obviously they needed to invent new hardware since the WiiMote is patented by Nintendo”

    Sony have been working on this tech since the early PS2 days. I’m not to sure what you expected them to do with it; Decide to scrap it because Nintendo released the Wii in between time? Its tech that requires it be held in a persons hand, making it into a ‘wand’ was sort of a no-brainer (notice how in PS2 tech demo up there he also calls it a “wand”).

    #52 5 years ago
  53. Michael O’Connor

    “Like Natal with the EyeToy you mean? Sure in execution… (you know where this is going).”

    The Eye is not capable of motion capturing. It is not capable of taking a physical human body and putting it into a 3D landscape as a 3D object. All the Eye does is take notice of changes in light and reacts accordingly.

    So no, it’s not even remotely similar.

    #53 5 years ago
  54. Newbie101

    With eyepet couldn’t you draw something on a piece of paper, put it in front of the camera, and it comes out in full 3d for your pet to play with? Sounds cool if you ask me.

    #54 5 years ago
  55. Michael O’Connor

    Yes, *that* is similar. I’m not talking about that. That’s like saying a Walkman is similar to an iPod because they can both play music.

    I’m talking about the motion capturing component, which is *the* major backbone of the Natal.

    #55 5 years ago
  56. Gekidami

    “The Eye is not capable of motion capturing. It is not capable of taking a physical human body and putting it into a 3D landscape as a 3D object. All the Eye does is take notice of changes in light and reacts accordingly.”

    You’re just being an idiot now. The concept of the EyeToy is to let games react to the players physical movements. Same as Natal, how it does it is -as you said- just different execution. The concept is the same and according to you copying a concept is the greatest crime.

    “No, I’m drawing my assumptions from the tech demos they showed. Soccer games where you physically kick the ball during penalties. Tennis games using an actual racket. Fitness titles that actually require you to move around properly.”

    Got a link? I mean a link actually showing tech demos that exist rather then that a fabricated “heres an idea” video MS showed at E3 in which everything showed is clearly not running in realtime.

    #56 5 years ago
  57. OlderGamer

    Seems like its Mr. O’Connor vs 2/3rds the site.

    In the end only time will tell. I don’t think either will do well. I fully expect a Wii price drop to stifle their sales this holiday season.

    #57 5 years ago
  58. dirigiblebill

    The problem with the internet is that nobody backs down.

    #58 5 years ago
  59. Seraphemz

    Get – +1 awesome point.

    #59 5 years ago
  60. Michael O’Connor

    It detects those physical movements through the subtle change in light. You’re stuck with having to stand there and reacting to the on-screen graphics.

    It cannot emulate a human being physical movements directly. If I punch with an Eyetoy, I have to punch *at* the physical image painted on the screen, and it simply detects that the change in light has occurred there. This can also be cheated by using any object – it doesn’t even have to be a person in front of the camera.

    If I punch with a Natal, my 3D avatar will actually punch forward as a physical *object* within the game world. And you will have to actually use your own body.

    The Arc detects movements and moves the pointer on the screen accordingly. This is *exactly* what the WiiMote does.

    Comparing a 3D motion capturing device that can create real, 3D movement within a game to a 2D camera that simply detects change in light is far from the blatant comparisons between the WiiMote and the Arc.

    Those are two entirely different experiences.

    “Got a link? I mean a link actually showing tech demos that exist rather then that a fabricated “heres an idea” video MS showed at E3 in which everything shows is clearly not running in realtime.”

    The ball game and the painting thing were both running in real time.

    “Seems like its Mr. O’Connor vs 2/3rds the site.”

    Good for them. I wasn’t aware that I was obliged to follow other people’s opinions. If someone doesn’t want to argue something or have a discussion, they do *not* have to respond to me. Just like in the real world.

    #60 5 years ago
  61. CroMagnon

    As fascinating as this discussion is, I’m more amused by Dyer’s statement that Arc will have more third party support than Natal because it’s easier to program for.

    That sounds exactly like Apple when they boasted that the iPhone had twice as many games as the DS and PSP combined. Wii and iPhone shovelware is hardly a good precedent for the Arc – but I suspect that it will probably follow that model.

    I’m not claiming that Natal will be any better in terms of ridiculous gimmicky party games, but maybe the difficulty in programming means that even if there won’t be an increase in quality, at least the quantity of shitty games will be lower on the XBox.

    #61 5 years ago
  62. get2sammyb

    Where’ve you seen these kicking a football demoes? I’ve seen Ricochet, Painting, Milo (not live demo), and some shitty implementation into Burnout, Katamari and Half-Life (which you’d do best to ignore if you’re arguing for Natal).

    #62 5 years ago
  63. NiceFellow

    Just to add to the madness because I can’t resist didn’t I see somewhere (perhaps here) that Sony was augmenting the software side of the Eyetoy to include facial recognition and some degree of motion tracking, bringing it closer to Natal from the camera/software point of view and allowing that to integrate with the controllers for input?

    BTW Oldergamer is spot on about the implications of pack in vs separate and the fact the Wii probably already has a ton of the potential market-share for this.

    On another note, I wonder how many Eyetoy’s have actually sold for PS3 with EyePet, Eye of Judgment, etc as in theory Sony might have a an in-built audience for some initial sales.

    #63 5 years ago
  64. Eregol

    “No, I’m drawing my assumptions from the tech demos they showed. Soccer games where you physically kick the ball during penalties.”

    Are you the only person who has seen this, because I don’t think anyone else here has.
    And without some sort of feedback you’re never going to know how hard you actually kicked the ball….

    By the way, what happened to the 360s wonderful camera add-on that came with ‘You’re in the movies’? One game and then ‘poof’ gone?
    I hope they support Natal better.

    #64 5 years ago
  65. mtmind2

    @get2sammyb who said “Where’ve you seen these kicking a football demoes?”

    Yes, I was wondering about that.

    And said “and some shitty implementation into Burnout, Katamari and Half-Life”.

    I haven’t seen Natal with HL myself, and Katamari was interesting, but the Burnout demo was far from being a “shitty implementation”. Natal worked extremely well for that Burnout demo, and with negligible lag.

    My problem with Arc is that it’s very much a “me-too” product, and I think this is why it hasn’t caught the public imagination as Natal has. So whilst it’s great to have a more accurate Wiimote, I’m skeptical that Arc will offer much more beyond Wii type casual games on the PS3.

    Natal is also going to be more for the casual gamer, the type who is currently happy with the Wii, however compared to Arc I think there’s more chance of Natal capturing the Wii audience looking for something new.

    #65 5 years ago
  66. Michael O’Connor

    “Are you the only person who has seen this, because I don’t think anyone else here has.”

    “Where’ve you seen these kicking a football demoes?”

    It was an example of what it could do. As I have already said a million times before, I’m talking about the device’s potential vs. Arc’s potential. Until both of them are actually released, that’s all *anyone* can do.

    The comprehension skills of the most of the members on this website, or their ability to actually hold a coherent discussion without turning into ignorant and defensive fanboys is not that high.

    Thank god we have posters like OlderGamer.

    “By the way, what happened to the 360s wonderful camera add-on that came with ‘You’re in the movies’? One game and then ‘poof’ gone?”

    The camera was out long before You’re In The Movies was released. That was a stab at a casual game, and a failed one at that. But the camera was never invented for that purpose.

    Natal is being pushed as an integral part of the 360, as part of the next five years of the console’s lifespan. This is hardly a cheap stab at some casual games with only one or two titles.

    Microsoft’s biggest problem is that they often don’t put enough force and commitment behind their endeavours. The degree to which they’re pushing the Natal hardware though is proof enough that this won’t be a flash-in-the-pan idea like those “casual games” were.

    #66 5 years ago
  67. Eregol

    To be honest Michael, everything you’re saying is stuff that was rolled out when the Wii was first announced.
    Now the Wii is drowning underneath shovelware and third parties are deserting it as the titles that are worth playing and actually cost to make are over-looked in favour of carnival games and things grannies will play.

    I remain sceptical of both Natal and Arc, I never asked for motion control (although it worked beautifully with Flower). The Arc has it’s limitations, same as the Wiimote, and arc has just as many.

    The whole idea of head tracking and other things just cannot be implemented as to turn your head to look means you will be looking away from the screen. Bloody stupid idea.

    “The comprehension skills of the most of the members on this website, or their ability to actually hold a coherent discussion without turning into ignorant and defensive fanboys is not that high.”

    Please don’t insult our intelligence by the way Michael. You’re not exactly covering yourself with glory in some of your arguments.
    You’ve constantly sung the praises of Natal while dismissing Arc and not said anything the other way around.
    Everyone else has said positives for both, and negatives, you only seem to be coming from one direction, the MS camp. That is why you’re being labelled a fanboy.

    #67 5 years ago
  68. Michael O’Connor

    “You’ve constantly sung the praises of Natal while dismissing Arc and not said anything the other way around.”

    I have said numerous times that if the games are good, I’ll play them. That doesn’t change the fact that I have no love for the device itself. A rip-off is a rip-off.

    #68 5 years ago
  69. mtmind2

    @Michael O’Connor who wrote “A rip-off is a rip-off”

    But that’s the same claim made by some about Natal. Some say it’s nothing more than an enhanced Eyetoy, and therefore it’s a rip-off. Some say Arc is just a more accurate Wii, and hence it’s a rip-off.

    Technology is about progress, it’s about development, and both Arc and Natal are good examples of this, both offer something beyond the tech which inspired them, and therefore neither are rip-offs.

    #69 5 years ago
  70. Michael O’Connor

    Except for the fact that the Natal is *not* a rip-off of the Eye Toy, and isn’t even remotely *close* to being one.

    #70 5 years ago
  71. mtmind2

    And except for the fact that Arc is *not* a rip-off of the Wiimote and isn’t even remotely *close* to being one.

    Btw, I’m very excited over Natal (albeit disappointed by the removal of the onboard processor), but I’m excited about Arc too, I’m just more skeptical over it’s role in PS3 games compared to Natal for 360 games.

    #71 5 years ago
  72. Michael O’Connor

    “And except for the fact that Arc is *not* a rip-off of the Wiimote and isn’t even remotely *close* to being one.”

    You mean, ignoring that they both serve exactly the same function? Stick a Wii Motion Plus Sensor on the WiiMote and they do *exactly* the same thing.

    #72 5 years ago
  73. mtmind2

    It’s not exactly the same. Whilst the Wii Motion Plus improves the accuracy of the Wiimote, it’s still just an extra set of gyros added to the Wiimote to serve that purpose. The Wiimote + MP does NOT (and will never) give the gamer 1:1 response time, whereas Arc has been designed for that level of accuracy on the PS3.

    The differences coming mostly from the fact that the Wiimote has a tiny infrared camera/sensor at the end of the controller to detect the IR LEDS within the sensor bar, whereas Arc uses the PSEye camera to detect the light at the end of the controller, both for spacial position and distance.

    #73 5 years ago
  74. Michael O’Connor

    Yes, but they still do the same thing. Detect the movement of an object in your hand in real time and display it on screen. 1:1 response doesn’t change that they do the same exact thing *in-game*.

    #74 5 years ago
  75. mtmind2

    Doing the same thing has nothing to do with it, they achieve the end result in a different way for key areas and similar in others, where Arc achieves significant superior accuracy and speed compared to the Wiimote as a result of those differences.

    Natal is nothing new either. 3DV’s Z-camera or ZCam (webcam with InfaRed cam to measure distance) has been around for *years*, and made an appearance at numerous tech shows.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_yWZFcgPPk&feature=fvw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=233hzDgkwWM&feature=related

    MS bought the company last year (protecting Natal from competition as well as gaining access to 3DV’s existing tech).

    So even if we dismiss the claim that Natal is an EyeToy rip-off, since Natal does *exactly* the same thing as the ZCam, then by your logic Natal *is* a rip-off, a ZCam rip-off!

    Note: EyeToy creator Richard Marks demonstrated the ZCam connected to the PS2 way back in 2004.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYHr0I-iFHE

    So like I said, both Arc and Natal are enhancements to existing technology, and therefore neither are rip-offs.

    #75 5 years ago
  76. Eregol

    @75
    Your comments prove Michael’s comments wrong and are therefore invalid.
    :-D
    Lols

    #76 5 years ago
  77. OlderGamer

    Eregol Said:

    “Now the Wii is drowning underneath shovelware and third parties are deserting it as the titles that are worth playing and actually cost to make are over-looked in favour of carnival games and things grannies will play.”

    Agreed and this is the number one reason for me, that I am at times almost fearful of the so called casual gamers and their market. They simply can not tell an AAA game from shovelware. And with todays graphics and marketing it can be tough to tell from a simple box alone. Factor in that price point as a key factor of purchase for said demographic and the Wii is just being overrun with craptastic games.

    Why would anyone want that for the PS3 or xb360?

    I have so many reservations about these pruducts(Arc/Natal) that I don’t really know where to begin.

    Either we are going to get crap shovelware games that we never heard of before made by companies looking to cash in that we have never heard of before… Or ….established game franchises will incorperate these technologies into their current and future versions.

    I would rather have a traditionaly controlled version of CoD, GoW, Halo, Uncharted, FIFA or LBP. I doubt games that allow you to toggle between game pad or arc/natal is going to work either. I am not looking forward to playing GT5 online and watching the car infront of me swurving all over the track because the fool is trying to use motion controls to drive.

    And, to be honest, I really don’t want or need a game of kick the ball against a wall of colored bricks.

    I can just see someone sneezing while playing a game of Natal, then what? You better not have to itch your face while playing either. How heavy is the Arc? Because as silly as it seems, my arms can get tired after playing certian Wii games for a while.

    But if your excited to play the endless wave of garbage that is being ported over from the Wii to the PS3 as we speak, then your in luck. If you just gotta navagate your XB360 menus by waving your arms through the air, your day is coming.

    #77 5 years ago

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