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1. Dave Cook
   Member

   I'm looking for opinion that may or may not help me formulate a short blog, but first I want to open the topic to the floor.

   I love Bayonetta. I think it's the best hack n' slash game ever made - from a combat perspective. I stress combat because I think Platinum nailed the tiered combos, the hit cancelling, the frames were spot on, the moves were insane and the combat just felt slicker - to me - than any DmC game or other hack n' slash to date.

   I have to add a disclaimer that I love the DmC series so this is, in no way a put down, at all.

   Seriously.

   So my question to any one who has played Assassin's Creed 3 is:

   Is it me or is the game's combat one of the most simplistic and mind numbing battle mechanics ever devised? To me it just feels utterly devoid of skill and - in a strange way - makes the game's open world setting feel more fenced in. There's no room for flair or to show-off, or to even use a little intuition - a must for all games in my book.

   I realise it's not a hack n' slash game, but it is a third person title with combat, multiple enemies and other vaguely similar traits. I just want to field opinion with you guys to see if I'm letting my love of that genre put me off AC3's combat or if there really is a problem - in your opinion.

   Phew. Thanks guys, keen to see what you think :)

   Dave

   Posted 6 months ago #

2. Ireland Michael
   Moderator

   Like you said, it's not that type of game. It's far more about the experience than any sort of pretence of tactical depth.

   If you tried to tier AC3's combat into combos, or start focusing on stuff like frame data and canceling, it's system would completely collapse. The amination would fall apart at the seams. Just It wouldn't work.

   It's just not that kind of game. I play Assassin's Creed 3 because I enjoy being immersed in the setting and the indentity of the character. Hunting, exploring, climbing... assassinating. The combat as it is designed serves solely a means to add to that illusion, and create a very specific experience. Personally, I find the most enjoyable moments I have in the game are the situations where I can plan out an assassination without ever having to engage in direction conformation at all.

   A game like Bayonetta (my favourite game this gen) on the other hand... it's *all* about its depth. Its background only serves as an excuse for all the crazy shit on screen. It has mutliple difficulties solely for the purpose of elaborating on that system and shoing off just how deep the dexterously god-like combat can go.

   The two games are at completely opposite ends of the spectrum. One is an "experience" game, the other is a "challenge" game. Thats how I tend to define them, because I think its an essential distinction to make between the huge variety of video games released nowadays. Would Journey have been a better game if they had included some sort of complex jumping mechanic? Probably not.

   Assassin's Creed 3 and Bayonetta are pretty much the antithesis of each other as far as video games go.

   Apples and oranges and all that.

   Posted 6 months ago #

3. polygem
   Member

   ...but imagining an open world sandbox stealth game with a bayonettalike combatsystem sounds like a dream coming true...

   Posted 6 months ago #

4. DSB
   Member

   How does it compare to something like Batman? I think the most amazing thing about that game is that the mechanics are so ultra simple, but somehow still so gratifying to use.

   I'm kinda weighing Assassins Creed 3 against Hitman Absolution at the moment, but I'm really not looking for Assassins Creed 2.5.

   They really need to move that shit forward already.

   Posted 6 months ago #

5. Ireland Michael
   Moderator

   @polygem It would be cool, but games like that work because they're in an enclosed environment. Things start getting a lot more complicated to program when that's not the case. There are lot more random elements to try and keep under control, and as we've seen with a lot of open world games, those systems can fall apart very easily.

   @DSB It doesn't compare to Batman at all, unfortunately. I've found that you can just mindlessly mash the B button and counters will still work 99% of the time. What it does do well is look good. You definitely feel like a badass, though a badass you don't always feel like you're in control of.

   The world itself is amazing though. The wilderness exploring and hunting is an amazing experience. I also don't know how they did it exactly, but the side content is actually really enjoyable this time around, instead of the mandatory chore it often felt like in the previous games. I think its because it feels more like part of the full experience.

   For example, to discover city shortcuts in this game, you actually need to explore underground, but once you find them, you can use them at any time. No need to travel to the jump point first. Not only does it add more immersion to what you're doing, but it streamlines the process too. If you *need* to get someone, it becomes a lot easier to do so, as long as you're willing to invest the effort first time around. As it should be,

   Another example. There's not repetitive building buying. Money is hard to come by, and you actually have to go out of your way to earn it for yourself this time around. You do this mainly by hunting. Sometimes I spent the whole night in the wilderness just hunting animals so that I could sell their fur, to help me buy a new weapon.

   Even the collection quests are fun. Visiting Benjamin Franklin is worth it just to have a good laugh listening to him perving out over the ladies.

   This stuff always felt very disconnected from everything in the previous games for some reason, but it's a lot fresher and a lot more immersive this time around. The story is still pretty ham-fisted though. I know that aspect of the series irks you. It's great as long as you don't try to over-analysise it too much.

   Posted 6 months ago #

6. OlderGamer
   Moderator

   I can't help you Dave, I am getting my copy of ACIII on WiiU. And for xmass no less, so I gotta wait. It will be my first AC game, and I am excited.

   As for Bayo, I agree it was silky smooth and very under rated imo. But I don't see it as a hack and slash game. I think it is more action. The bect hack and slash mechanics I have played in recent memory were found in Kingdom of Amular.

   Just my two cents, and I tend to be a bit off center sometimes when it comes to games I like.

   Posted 6 months ago #

7. freedoms_stain
   Moderator

   Assassins Creed has always had garbage combat. It remains the reason Assassins Creed will be a ~£5 sale buy for me.

   OHK counters that are ridiculously easy to pull off and OHK auto-aim projectile weapons with a skill ceiling that doesn't get off the floor.

   That's AC to a tee though, isn't it? Auto-everything, minimal user input. It makes more sense to make me hold 3 buttons to auto-parkour than to have a jump button. Right.

   Posted 6 months ago #

8. Cozzy
   Member

   The easy combat etc. has never bothered me. I enjoy the game for the story more than anything else, the combat has always been about looking awesome rather than be challenging which in my opinion it achieves.

   It is incredibly easy but I feel that fits the idea of these super lethal Assassins. I find the stealth gameplay far more interesting, I always prefer to stay undetected and kill one target than take on countless bad guys for the most part.

   In short, yes the combat is incredibly easy but I don't mind it in Assassin's Creed.

   Posted 6 months ago #

9. OrbitMonkey
   Member

   C'mon Dave, Assassins Creed is just a Hitman game for the iPhone generation.

   Its all about form & function wrapped up in a accessible package.

   One button kills & sweet swallow dives.

   Don't worry about shallow gameplay, that gets in the way of *The experience*

   Posted 6 months ago #

10. Ireland Michael
    Moderator

    @Orbit, Snob, much?

    Posted 6 months ago #

11. Dave Cook
    Member

    It's getting to the point now where the game's combat is making fights dull, as I'm running into them more often. Yes they look cool but the returns are diminishing after the 30th battle. I'm all for accessibility though and I can see what they did it. Bayonetta is the antithesis of accessibility after all.

    Cheers for the input, I was curious to see here everyone stood on the matter :)

    Also, I think it might have been DSB who asked - if I got this wrong apologies - but the format has changed a lot from the previous games. The cities are sort of the same, but the open world Frontier area has more in common with Red Dead Redemption's countryside than the old AC games. The lack lf load times while out there is very impressive too. Visuals are ace as well.

    My criticisms so far - too many cutscenes, the parklur system is far too smart for its own good. With more things to climb on it can get itself confused when you're trying to do things at speed - jump the wrong way, leap off cliffs and so on. It can be annoying.

    Posted 6 months ago #

12. freedoms_stain
    Moderator

    Sounds to me like Ubisoft have done little more than change the window dressing again. Disappointing.

    You know what the main difference between Bayonetta's combat and AC's is? You could fire Bayonetta down to casual and mash 1 attack button and Bayonetta would pull off Witch-Weave combo's automatically giving you all the style without the substance. AC only has casual mode.

    Posted 6 months ago #

13. LuLshuck
    Member

    AC3s combat to me feels exactly like arkhams but with the buttons changed

    Posted 6 months ago #

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