No need to rehash the argument. That was done comprehensively at EG.
RoFlo vs Dave Cook(92 posts)
I don't care about what he did... Because I see nothing wrong with it. And where is the conflict of interest?
This is such a minor thing to have happened which has been blown so out of proportion.
Huh, I thought the whole idea of being a journalist WAS to be bribed & schmoozed! If I was sent to interview 343 for example, I'd make it pretty obvious a 10 review would cost a replica battle rifle ;-)
Besides, Dave deserves the flack tbh. Imagine the poor little kids faces when they find out he's sent them a PS3! That's just cruel mate :-/
For what its worth, all names have been deleted from the EG article.
I really don't want to start an argument but I do want to put my opinion down. I'm not talking about Dave directly either as he's had enough of that. But by and large a journalist shouldn't advertise something for personal gain as readers will rely on them for an unbiased opinion. That just doesn't factor into review scores as much as the industry would like to think.
As for blown out of proportion comments. That is what is confusing me the most. If this was a non-issue why have several other journalists, not just Rob, been targeted by their peers with abuse when they wanted to comment on some of the odd things that happen. If this was a none issue EG wouldn't have had to edit the post and Rob wouldn't have stepped down from writing his column.
At the end of the day, it's the ad guys job to sell adverts, not the journalists, because mixing the two gets you the music industry. Trust me. No one wants that.
^ He has stepped down?
Edit: No need, I just checked his Twitter account and saw that it's true.
Because it was completely unprofessional of him to name Dave in an article. That was uncalled for and what happened between them should have stayed on Twitter if anywhere. That was a complete abuse of his position.
And also, when was the last time you saw a full or "proper" review on VG247? Plus, Dave says it would have ended up as a readers competition prize. Not like they're sent bucket loads of stuff to give-away. And who is to say he is telling the truth or lying about that? No one will know now but I'm of the opinion it most likely would have been.
He's also said that because of the apparent legal threats from Lauren Wainwright directed at EG he's pretty much out of a job as far as writing for videogames is concerned. So there you go. The gaming journalist club has put a man out a job over a "minor thing".
Well that's one way to flip it completely in his favour.
If he had some professional decency or perhaps common sense, he wouldn't have named names in the first place.
viralshag, I'm not talking about just the hashtag or Dave. Yes, Dave was mentioned, with the intent to make an example out of him. That was unlucky and I guess in a way unfair.
As for unprofessional. That one is a lot tougher. Journalistic standards or what is and isn't professional is different to what you'd find in a normal working role. The threats and abuse that has been slung about this whole thing is unprofessional and to be honest, when the side with a valid point is John Walker and Stuart Campbell I honestly shudder. But it seems to be more about the gaming jurno code than professional misconduct. But.. then again, this could affect peoples careers (though it already has) but in journalism integrity is everything and only comments made in the public forum were used.
The gaming journalist club has put a man out a job over a "minor thing".
It's what other people were accused of doing that's being described as minor.
What he did was potentially libelous.
Thus the legal threats.
Thus his refusal to back down.
Thus a situation of his own making.
How would he have felt if those "so called journalists" he mentioned had lost their jobs based on his 'exposé'?
Proud to have done a service for his profession?
Exactly though, how can you say integrity is everything and then seemingly ignore the fact that Rob questioned Dave's and others? In an article too, that many will read given he is a popular writer among the EG crowd.
It's not unlucky and unfair he or others were mentioned. He was selected out of 60+ others, not to mention the fact it was said he knew others that joined in and left them unmentioned.
Also: If I was Pat, I would be pretty fucked off if another writer from EG, owner/same group as VG (whatever), would say something like that about one of his writers.
I think errors were made on both sides and no one deserves to lose a job on this. The article on EG was a good one, but name-calling wasn't.
He questioned the perception of integrity. But I have no idea if it was libel to be honest. I don't think Rob wanted anyone to lose their job. Maybe he was just as naive as the tweeters and he was stupid to post something like that on a UK site where our libel laws are very expensive and troublesome to deal with. Plus I think I do agree with that he could have made the same point without names. I don't side that it was unprofessional. But it was stupid and dangerous even if the impact was greater because of it.
But mostly. What I wanted to get at, more so here than anywhere is that whether you respect it or not (which you fucking should) gaming journalism is in a kinda fucking stupid state at the moment. If you don't respect gaming journalism then well, this is why.
EDIT: If I was Pat I'd be furious too. But Pat didn't call the lawyers.
Also, if we are going to talk about Dave, he really didn't deserve all this shit. More so to have his name thrown in the mud when jurno's who are actually 'the problem' got off light. I really hope he doesn't lose his love for games writing because of this. I know me wanting to discuss this had brought all this back which was silly of me to think we could ignore the elephant in the room, but really, he was just unlucky to get caught in the crossfire of something more insidious on both sides.
That could be applied to any journalism at the moment though. Which is why you should always find the writers you like/agree with. Whether that be because of the same tastes or they offer a different point of view.
I would say the problem is more to do with so many people that seem to blindly follow the words of their preferred writers. I like Dave and all of the writers here but at the end of the day, if they wrote about something I didn't agree with, I wouldn't blindly accept it.
Games journalism is not exactly the easiest or most glamorous of industries. Between shit pay, shit hours, and often shit readers, I wouldn't hold it against any of them to grab, or at least try, some freebies.
I imagine half the budding young game journalists try to get into the industry to 1. play games all day, 2. write about games all day and 3. hopefully get some free games. It's not like you sign up to a website and you're giving every console you need.
Shouldn't have named anyone in the article. Potential Libel is not something you want to associate yourself with. If the man had any common sense he would've realised it's not a smart thing to do and would probably have repercussions affecting his career.
He could've got his point across without the insults aimed at people's personal integrity. I mean naming one or two people out of a large group? Bit of common decency.
You can really tell the games media is in its infancy by this farcical soul-searching about journalistic integrity.
Food critics get good tables, art critics get invited to posh soirees and political journo's get to grill Prime Ministers.
The catch? You gotta be good/popular & you gotta schmooze.
Thats how you get the exclusives, thats how you hear the gossip & thats how you increase your chance of getting to the real news.
Yes that sounds cynical... But thats the way it.
Can't stand that HipHopGamer guy with his " I'm no.1 in the industry" his shill for Sony and the way he brags about getting free games all the time , corp cock sucker if I've ever seen one. I wish anyone decent all the success in their careers but not that twat, absolute joke he gets away with it considering his writing skills are so inept, he was removed from N4G, if anyone deserves shit for propaganda and spreading hyperbolic rubbish about piss poor games its him and people like him.
Games journalism is a joke. It always has been.
Theres the constant search for mainstream approval and respect, even though theres nothing that deserves that respect from the get go. Que endless "articles" demanding that THIS MUST END, WE MUST CHANGE, THIS CANNOT CONTINUE! offering not a single alternative. Its fair enough if you do not like something as it is just now but at least try and come up with a replacement.
Nigh on all of these little polemic rants like what John Walker has started to do recently geniunely read like the journos wanting change simply so they don't have to feel bad when explaining what they do for a living at dinner parties.
"Oh I write about video games on the internet."
Then you look at whats happened today and its even more surprising that gaming is a massive joke on legs.
Yeah. What's obvious here is that the whole discussion was fucked up. Rab really pushed some buttons which then caused everyone to flip out. Fuss was caused and now everyone will remember it as that time Eurogamer moaned about some tweets and ignore the rot at the heart of the industry. Walker and Co. will continue on just being grumpy and everyone else will enjoy the champagne. No one actually seems to want to do anything and as usual, people who buy games lose out.
Seems all fucking pointless to me now.
Rab will be all Jeff Gerstman'd, his word worth more than before. Dave gets slightly raw-deal'd because he didn't call in the lawyers but gets splashed by Wainwrights shitsoup, Eurogamer look like berks... again, and on it rolls.
It won't be remembered as anything. In a week or so no one will remember or care.
Rab might not have deserved to lose his job or whatever but then he should have played the whole thing a little smarter. I bet he didn't plan on it going down like this when he wrote that article.
Lol, rot at the heart of the industry! Mwahahaha! Food critic raves about a restaurant, you eat there & it's shit... You still eat there?
Sports journalist raves about a team you don't support, you switch teams?
Film critic raves about a film you find dull, you buy the special edition DVD?
Games journalist raves about a game you don't like... You see the pattern here right?
Is this why most of us found a home on Vg247 though? I mean, no reviews, very few previews and opinion pieces and a razor sharp focus on just bringing the new means they keep out of the whole PR reach around I guess. No editorial risk, no publisher punishment.
Dave if you are still reading this, I think the community of VG247 has given you some very sympathetic feedback. And I understand them and you, it's a human error.
I had never heard of you before today, so you're not exactly Geoff Keighley, in terms of exposure. And as you say, you love games, you get passionate about them. But it is definitely your job as a journalist to extract yourself a little, is it not?
I think this is perhaps what Rab was; rather offensively, trying to say. You can enter competitions to win holidays, but don't shit where you eat.
[EDIT]In reply to Human:[/EDIT]
Yup. Though sometimes they get lazy with the copy & pasting of press releases.
I stick to here and GiantBomb. Simple.
What, Rab lost his job? That's bullshit!
If there was any one person at fault, it was the EG editor. Who is that now? Tom Bramwell? Olly Welsh? Whoever it was should have seen the name-calling and edited it. I don't think Rab just posts whatever the fuck he likes with no oversight...
...first I felt that Dave had been raked over the coals, and I still do, but I think it would be crazy if he lost his job because an editor fucked up...
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