Wow, other than the exception of FEZ, PSN really isn't helping my cause, is it...
Wow, other than the exception of FEZ, PSN really isn't helping my cause, is it...
"I don't need to tweak my AA from 2x to 4x and lose 15fps. I don't need to turn on 'ultra high shadows' and notice absolutely no difference at all. I don't need to install some community mod that no-one will be playing after a week."
Oh brother, where to begin.
1) Most console games have no AA.
2) If you have a videocard made in the past few years, 4X AA is basically free.
3) An increasing number of PC ports are adding PC-exclusive graphical enhancements that definitely make a big difference. Sleeping Dogs and Borderlands 2, for example. If you see no visual difference between the PC versions of those games and their console equivalents, you may be clinically blind. And even without those extra features, simple things like higher resolutions, AA and AF make a significant difference.
4) 60+ FPS > 30 FPS.
5) Mods can greatly improve a game experience. Take any Bethesda game, for example. With mods, you get better AI, better textures, better models, better full-screen effects, better lighting, better sounds, better UI, better balancing, fewer bugs, new items, new dungeons, new companions, new quests, etc. Dark Souls is another good example. The vanilla port was horrible in that it was basically an exact replica of the console version (albeit with a more consistent framerate). The internal render resolution was locked at something like 1020x700 (which wasn't even considered HD ten years ago) and the framerate was capped at 30 FPS. Now, thanks to mods, you can render the game at your native resolution AND have it run at 60 FPS. There are also texture and UI mods being made as we speak.
It sounds like you are just severely out of touch with modern PC gaming. If we were talking about PC gaming in 1998, your points might be valid but today, not so much. I've been playing PC games for about almost 20 years and it is now cheaper and easier than ever before. 95% of the games I've played run without issue and for the ones that do have problems, those problems have almost always been resolved thanks to unofficial support by the community.
The certification process of closed platforms isn't even remotely as reliable as you seem to think. The top priority of TCR/TRC checks is to ensure compliance with a set of arbitrary rules set by MS and Sony. These rules primarily pertain to the system software and not the games themselves. There are also politics involved. Games like Call of Duty and Skyrim are allowed to get away with more violations because they are high-profile games and the platform-owners can't afford to hold them back because they didn't pass certification. It's not uncommon for platform-owners to let games pass certification as long as the publisher promises to fix certain issues in a patch. Ironically, the certification process also means that it takes much longer for patches to go public, even when the patch includes critical fixes. What would take five minutes to release on PC would take a week on consoles.
"Thirdly, I'd also argue the point that, as I said before, with closed systems like XBL, iOS, etc, there is an understanding that it's absolutely critical to get things right the first time around, simply because of the difficulty involved in solving problems once the game is released."
Except there are countless examples of game breaking problems and shoddy ports on console, many of which have never been fixed. Not to mention the mountains out of molehills attitude you're taking towards PC gaming, which you are blowing completely out of proportion.
There are very, very few "broken games" launched on PC anymore, and I challenge you name more than a handful. This SC2 problem you're referring to is a very isolated instance. I'm sure all those PS3 Skyrim players are still pretty pissed off that the game is *guaranteed* to fall apart after a certain length of time though...
I have never had a single game that I bought on Steam since I registered on the service years ago *not* work, and the service instantly patches it's games, just like consoles. Likewise, older games I've bought on GoG have all worked, because they've been optimised to do so on current hardware. PC are vastly more accessible than they used to be.
This thread is like a broken pencil. Basically G1GA, this is not an issue for someone who frequently plays games on PC. The most gamebreaking issue I had with a game was back in the Starforce DRM era. Most of the devs that implemented that DRM had to patch their games to remove that eventually.
At least on PC you can almost always rely on the community to find a solution to your troubles, when a game on a console have a gamebreaking moment you have to wait until the dev comes to you with a solution.
@Da Man, Clearly you've never spotted that minimize button.
The hundreds of millions of Windows users don't have any issues understanding that concept. There are of course programs like Steam & Skype that are capable of running in the background while their Windows are closed.
I don't know about games on PS3, but I think that on the Xbox 360 most of them use 2x AA, and the console supports up to 4x. The fact is that 2x isn't enough for PC games (because you're usually near the screen). I usually set AA to 8x, but when using a better display I leave it at 4x or even 2x.
And about framerates, I know people that simply doesn't see any improvement beyond 30 fps and others that are satisfied with 40~50.
Cristopher, obviously you never used Mac OS. This is something anyone notices the moment they turn on a Mac after PC or vice versa. and this has nothing to do with minimizing windows, it's a fundamental part of interface.
I realize that you can't pay for a Mac but please do keep your imaginary soldiers to yourself, alongside all those straw men and rants.
I use iMacs at school & hate them. The keyboards have little travel so start getting painfaul after a couple hours & the mice are plain awful crud collectors. If anything I rather a program close when I close the window, after a couple hours of opening various programs the Macs start grinding to a halt.
I don't get this pompus attitude Mac users have, after using them for the past year I don't see what makes them so special, they are just as slow- if not slower than the much cheaper yet equally specced Windows equilavents without the same support- I often end up Googlinh for 20mins, frequently runing into a dead end to find something I can do on a Windows machine in 2 seconds.
I really just don't see a point in even owning a Mac unless you have too much loose change & don't plan on PC gaming- yes a Mac is a PC, as are tablets such as the iPad. If it's purely a security reason, grab a Windows machine & shovea secure Linux distro onto it. I get that Macs have better out of the box software but that's hardly anything special that can't be matched by aything someone on Windows is offering.
Out of plain curiosity, what do you use your Mac for Da Man? Telling Windows users how inferior they are? Heck, even one of Apple's advertised features is the ability to run Windows http://www.apple.com/why-mac/
I have issues using Porsche cars, they're weird and too responsive for my taste.
They work faster, both in terms of OS and the hardware, they're made from notebook parts, they're quality. They 're also quiet and small. They have superior interface, features and design. By all means do continue do make things up, unless of course you were using a ten year old Mac at school (which is logical..)
I could make a thread about Windows being retarded more than any console could possibly be. From the poor interface through the dumb thing asking me to restart because there was a fail update to patch the previous fail update to patch the previous fail.
I think it's amazing how a person who tries to convince internet that he hates Macs is asking me those kind of questions.
I do everything I can possibly need, plus have that pos of an OS via Bootcamp.
You know what's the difference between Sony pompousness and Apple one? That Sony makes consoles which get a dre and break down after a week of playing while Apple things are both well built and easy to use.
@ the Mac and PC debate..
You do know that Mac OS X has had more reported vulnerabilities in the last year than windows 7 has had since it was released? In fact, Safari is classified as one of the worst browsers for security!
Mac OS is still using Security by Obscurity and their patching and response to CAT 1 vulns is horrifically slow.
The speed of the OS is rubbish.. No Idea where you are getting that from, as the Mac's and Macbook pro's we have all start up slower than Win 7, slower opening the programs that are used on them, Adobe Photoshop, and eat more memory. For instance, Photoshop on win 7 uses, on average 1.5GB of memory during daily usage whilst OS X uses 2.5GB, both using the same image to render. On the other hand, Photoshop runs and renders slightly faster on OS X.
In most terms, programs running are within milliseconds between the 2 OS's, so it just comes down to what you like.
Our Mac engineer, has ditched his 13" Macbook pro for a Asus laptop, since it just works and doesn't crash everytime he plugs his Apple Magic mouse in, and he use to work for Apple.
Win 7 has it's issues, UAC is one of them, but the OS is pretty good and runs well. I believe in the last Black Hat, OS X was cracked within 12 hours whilst Win 7 and Linux went to the last hour, with Linux just beating Win 7.
It all comes down to what you like and how much money you want to spend for doing the same thing..
"They have superior interface, features and design. By all means do continue do make things up"
Which Safari? No, I don't. I don't do system programming or have any interest in sys admin tasks.
Rubbish is a relevant way to describe something which outperforms Windows from the start-up and shut down time to generally running for hours. It does slow down if your hard drive has 3% of free space though.
Selective applications actually do work better on PCs, I don't use Photoshop.
Cool story bro, John Carmack with their buddies ditched PCs in favour of Macs. Not that I mind him doing that.
Only thing I agree on Windows being superior is their Ide.
absolutezero, No you.
We use 2011 iMac's with Intel Core i5 CPUs.
Design always goes down to perspective & my I.T. class is filled with young & old, eperts & people who have never even touched a computer before& all but one person in my cass of 20 complains every lesson about Macs while while even the brand new to computing people require little help when using Windows.
As for smoothness, I just don't see it, no doubt the network set up hinders it but it's a very slow buggy mess to use, the biggest problem is compatibility.
Also, don't pretend that Apple are god, their device are just as prone to malfunctions as any other device. That Antennagate fiasco in particular pissed me off, I mean what's the point of buying a nice looking device if the only way you can properly use it (rather than 'holding it right') is to smother it in an ugly case?
You also have seemed to dodge my real question in order to attack my credibility (are you a politician?) & also, for some reason, bring Sony into your argument(if anybody, Asus followed by Samsung would be my fav manufacturers of general electronics). Back to the point, what do you use your MacBook for that a Windows or Linux machine couldn't handle?
Really? You mean you have some alternative minds there. Must be, since if anything I never heard of people preferring Windows in terms of ease of use.
God has nothing to do with superior electronics or expensive computer parts. iPhone antenna issues even have nothing to do with being prone to malfunctions, since it didn't do that per se. It was a flaw in visual design.
I did answer(which is why I brought that one up). Allright, I don't have to go through those 'Next->next->next' installers, I don't have to do with registry, use a File manager only due to a terrible interface and Start Menu, don't have to minimize every application, don't have to listen to a fan like with my Xbox360, don't need to download almost any additional system software, don't see idiotic messages in my right lower corner of the screen, don't have to go through the mess that is Control Panel, and many other things.
Current Linux is a mess which is being abused by indian enthusiasts and Wine being coded by students. And that's a good way to look at things, why use one Mac when you can take this from Linux and that from Windows.. smh. I think you can answer your own question.
"I don't have to go through those 'Next->next->next' installers" What? 5 seconds?
"I don't have to do with registry" Neither do I, I've only used it once to switch the key on a game to run multiplayer because I was using a different disk from the original to launch it.
"use a File manager only due to a terrible interface and Start Menu" Beats dealing with the Mac file browser which is treated different ways depending on how you launch it to find a program that isn't on the dock.
"don't have to minimize every application" What? Dealing with multiple windows on Windows is simple, especially the way it 'snaps' to full screen & half screen for easy side by side usage. You can also drag from every edge & corner instead of just the ottom right corner- something small but I resent about OSX.
"don't have to listen to a fan" MacBooks can, especially the 2012 retina, suffer from loud fans, not to mention that not all Windows machines have loud fans, that's a ridiculous assumption.
"don't see idiotic messages in my right lower corner of the screen" then move the task bar :P Seriously thought, even my mother knows how to disable them.
"don't have to go through the mess that is Control Panel" I rarely have to either, in fact the only times I recall going in there is to install hardware (GPUs, Printers, etc) I don't have the install disks for.
This is the real reason I hate Apple http://www.jbhifi.com.au/computers/apple/macbook-pro-15-inch-sku-87418/ compared to http://www.jbhifi.com.au/computers/samsung/15-inch-notebook-sku-88525/ even ignoring the discount the difference is still well over $1000 for lesser HDD, same CPU, similar GPU, same RAM & slighty higher resolution.
I'm gonna try to worm around the little fanboy flare-ups here, but that last post by G1GAHURTZ is really more representative of a weakness of the PC, which is the lack of a truly universal architecture.
I deliberately go for Intel processors and Nvidia graphics cards to avoid it. All in all it's far more likely that you'll see a problem relating to a lack of hardware support, than the kind of problem you actually had here G1GA.
I've only had one problem with a game failing to download and patch correctly, but I've had considerably more with hardware issues. Gotham City Impostors, RAGE, Bad Company 2. I reckon it's something like one in five games.
That is a problem, and it does make PC gaming less than it should be. But on the other hand I don't see how you can really bring vendors together and fix these things for good. Having options ultimately means you'll have hits and misses.
Publishers are too shortsighted to put money into something that doesn't grant them an immediate cash reward (like proper testing) and hardware manufacturers are already struggling to stand out from eachother, so I don't think they're eager to find a way to make their systems reflect eachother, and so easier to accomodate for the developers.
It's a weakness that I think is here to stay. I don't blame anyone for not liking that side of it though.
That's like saying why ask for a larger payment or a better house because you're fine as it is.
But but but..
Esp when it's the same with many instances many times.
Yes you do have to deal with registry. Even if you don't want to go all sys admin. I don't even need to have the uninstallers. All I have to do to delete the program is placing it into Trash. It's fundamentally easier and more intuitive.
So what if it's easy when you get used to it. anything can become easy if you get used. People get used to the most inferior things.
You can resize them from every corner in Lion.
If your mother knows that, then she would have no know nothing to work on a Mac.
"That's like saying why ask for a larger payment or a better house because you're fine as it is." How? More like preffering Pepsi over the much more expensive coke so getting your preffered product for a lower price- best of both worlds.
Wanting to save money buying a product that your actualy prefer is not the same as wanting less money. How ever you got to your conclusion is quite mind boggling.
Pepsi is exactly the same . It isn't easier to use, neither is it more intuitive or has any features over Coca Cola.
Neither are Macs 'twice the price'. You get what you pay for. You don't save the money, you ignore quality. To get a quiet, fast and reliable Dell computer you would have to pay a lot more than most people.
I'll tell you how. because I don't want to tinker with pointless shit, neither do I want to administer the system. You turn the thing on, it works. You have to do literally nothing else.
No point debating with you, all you're concerned about is style.
You don't even know the definitions of words you're trying to throw around.
If comfort, intuitiveness and quality is style then by all means do continue to fight the evil empire. Just remember that Windows uses proprietary graphics API.
MicrApple, they're both evil. Also, it's the developers that unfortunately continue to choose DirectX over OpenGL. If a Linux distro were to have the same native compatability as Windows I'd make the switch in a heartbeat just to ditch those licensing fees for good. This is why I hope Valve can use Steam to help push this into a reality- unlikely but one can always dream.
The developers wouldn't do that if Windows didn't have that much market share. So by increasing Mac market share you help OpenGL.
So you'd rather give your money to one fat guy over the other skinny one?
Linux will never become the norm. THeir peak was when Windows came out with Vista and thats where Linux could have grabbed the market but they lost it and they are back to 2% of the market and steam won't be enough of a force to push it because all the games will still only be played on Windows except for Valve's games and smaller group of indie devs.
DirextX is far easier to develop for because of documentation, resources, and tools for making games or any multimedia where OpenGL the developer would have create all the libraries for the sound,videos, and input. OpenGL will never become the norm as long as MS continues to use DIrectX for the Xbox and Windows OS. Only developers like ID or Valve with the resources of programmers will ever utilize OpenGl. Not to mention Nvidia and ATI rarely update their drivers for OpenGL.
"Neither are Macs 'twice the price'. You get what you pay for. You don't save the money, you ignore quality. To get a quiet, fast and reliable Dell computer you would have to pay a lot more than most people."
Jesus Christ thats utter bollocks.
Since when are system components tied to the operating system? Why would something in a Windows PC automatically be of a lesser build quality than anything inside a Mac?
My mind if full to the brim with fuck.
Seriously I could easily build something of a higher quality, noise level and temperature controlled for less money than it costs to buy any i device.
Sadly that would actually require some sort of effort, which I guess is anathema.
You're so off it's depressing.
I was saying they use expensive parts, while PCs vary.
See? I bet it would take you a page long essay to write that.
Please do practice reading comprehension, it shouldn't be that hard for a superior nerd like you.
Good job guys. Giving Da Man the attention he wants so that he can derail another thread with vitriol and insults.
When will you lot learn?
Fair point. Its like poking a hornets nest though, its stupid and I should know better but its fun.
Also Apple don't really use "expensive parts" at all. Its all pretty generic stuff inside them. Which could be obtained far more cheaply if you wanted to build a Mac yourself. Which is entirely possible. Only no one wants to do it because thats not why you buy a Mac. Its because you want the white shiny status object.
Indeed. Besides O'Connor is a journalist, Vanquish is a superior toy for hormone free, conscious adults and Half Life is art.
^A bloody charger..
Please, do take the effort to build the same sized, non-power hungry, quiet PC which will work for years. I bet you can do it right away. Probably think Hackintosh is the same as running a Mac.
You just keep on fighting, absolutezero. We sheep don't have the passion.
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