Wii U Touch pad thoughts...

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Wii U Touch pad thoughts...

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Started 9 months ago by monkeygourmet
Latest reply from vivien

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monkeygourmet
Member

This is a video tour (from E3 i think), of the final revised Wii U Gamepad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZvlpA7knsQ

It gives a good idea of all the features and potential gameplay options the pad can possibly give.

Im really glad they changed the analog sticks and have included an extra button press in each as that feature wasn't shown on the first revision.

The touchscreen doesn't have capacitive touch, which is annoying, but i don't think it'll make a huge difference for the way they are going to use it in tandem with the controls.

Im also happy they included 4 shoulder buttons, i may be wrong, but im pretty sure the first sighting of the pad only had 2, which would have been terrible for FPS.

Biggest worry is with Zelda really. With the recent leaked info, you could assume it heavily relies on the pad for most of it's new gameplay features. Problme with that would be; you lose the amazing 1-1 sword fighting from Skyward Sword...

I really wouldn't want to go back to Zelda without the 1-1 sword / equipment gameplay features, but im sure they know what their doing! ;)

Overall, im really excited to see what features it can bring to gaming, although at the same time im worried how many mini-maps will be displayed on the screen ala DS! :)

Also, if the Wii U didn't beam an info to the screen and just used the pro pad, would games have a better chance in running in 1080p? Just interested really.

All in all, i can't wait to get my hands on one and Nintendo Land especially! I think 5 player gameplay will be a great new feature and hopefully bring back some of the feeling of split screen from the N64 days!

Also, very much looking forward to Zombie U and the multiplayer where the other player uses the pad to 'direct' Zombie attacks! Sounds fun!

Posted 9 months ago #
DrDamn
Member

RE: Just mini-maps. Whilst its a concern that devs might not give it the time or consideration it might deserve I think it's also important that if it will add little games shouldn't try to shoe horn things in. One of the problems of the Wii was that games had to use the wii-mote and it was limiting and just plain bad for some things. Here at least it doesn't hold back whilst at the same time it adds, and is standard.

RE: 1080p. Not sure how much resource this ends up taking up, it's a factor but maybe not as big as it could have been given the memory the machine has. Will Nintendo allow games to not use it? I have a feeling the vast majority of games will remain 720p but more games than on PS3/360 will properly support higher resolutions.

RE: Zelda. Isn't the shift and change in standard Nintendo franchises with hardware capabilities a big plus? Wait and see I think.

Posted 9 months ago #
monkeygourmet
Member

Yeah, the mini-maps thing would be a classic fail.

Easyish to port the game, then quickly add the map screen to the 2nd screen. In something like Skyrim or Fallout that could work for fast travel etc... But still abit lazy.

Having the invatory on the 2nd screen wouldn't be too bad for RPG's etc... But im hoping for some cooler innovative ideas! (if devs can be bothered.

The Wii showed that only Nintendo really bothered to think of new ways to use motion control though, so that doesn't bode very well.

Im sure Zelda will be great, i just loved the motion control in that (best this gen imo), i have no idea how they managed to do that using Wii tech, truely amazing really.

Some games i think would work well would be:

Metroid - Scanning the environment, touch screen for weapons loadouts etc... Using the 2 Analogs for control then the motion sensor to throw your grapple beam etc... would be fun.

F Zero - Being able to semi tune your hover vehicle on the fly, use touch screen to power up the sled as if it was a cockpit ala Steel Battalion.

Zombie U is my most anticapated so far, really nice use of the touchscreen and scanning from what i've seen so far...

Posted 9 months ago #
zinc
Member

Advance Wars for the WiiU would be very welcome and surely Fatal Frame would be a good fit?

Posted 9 months ago #
M. K.
Member

I'm really interested in this tablet. Do we already have a clue, how powerful this thing will be? I mean, if it's really going to cost around 150-200$ I'm expecting some good specs, but on the other hand, this is nintendo, how powerful could this be?

Any thoughts?

Posted 9 months ago #
zinc
Member

The rumour mill suggests it will be as 'powerful' as the current PS3/360, but it will have double the RAM, 1GB I believe.

That should enable the devs to do some pretty interesting things, if they choose to do so.

Posted 9 months ago #
DrDamn
Member

@MK
Are you talking about the tablet controller or the WiiU itself? As above for the WiiU but the tablet itself is fairly dumb. The WiiU console streams the video to the tablet for display. As far as I am aware it doesn't do any processing or image generation itself.

Posted 9 months ago #
Phoenixblight
Member

"Yeah, the mini-maps thing would be a classic fail.

Easyish to port the game, then quickly add the map screen to the 2nd screen. In something like Skyrim or Fallout that could work for fast travel etc... But still abit lazy.

Having the invatory on the 2nd screen wouldn't be too bad for RPG's etc... But im hoping for some cooler innovative ideas! (if devs can be bothered."

That is exactly what will happen if you force developers to do something that wasn't part of the gmae in the first place they will go with the easiest way to add something in this case maps and a second screen for inventory just look at Batman and Darksiders 2 on it. THey are doing exactly those two things. Nintendo will be the only one to utilize that tablet to the fullest extent.

Posted 9 months ago #
zinc
Member

In a competitive first person shooter, a mini-map in the hand would be very handy *cough*.

Being able to call in a airstrike on the move for example, or maybe mark locations of the opposition....

Heh, it would be very funny if the WiiU becomes one of the better consoles for FPS fans because of this.

We will have to see how Aliens plays :-)

Posted 9 months ago #
monkeygourmet
Member

@PB

There's no doubt we will see this kind of thing, especially around launch.

I feel Skyrim / Fallout on console could be massively improved with the Wii U pad, it would only take a bit of tweaking.

Mixing potions, skinning animals, crafting weapons could all become more interactive if they wanted to push the tech...

You could argue that: 'I just want to press a button to make a weapon', but, in a way, that outline what a weak and un-involving mechanic it is...

This gen, I don't think it'll only be Nintendo pushing the pd. with smart glass and PS4 > Vita compatibility, I think the tablet / gaming combo is going to take off in a big way...

What that means for core experiences I'm not sure? But it's nice to know Nintendos console ships with the controller.

If you think we will only ever need a 360 pad / ps3 to play games, you miss out on a lot of potential innovation.

Risk shouldn't be a problem to a creative team.

The optime of console 'control' (bar Nintendo) is prob COD, how sad is that?

If people want to try something new, then surely this control scheme is worth trying out?

Posted 9 months ago #
Phoenixblight
Member

I am only talking about the developer perspective of things. If the multiplatform games do not have a use of a tablet in the design they will not force one in just for the hell of it. Nintendo forces developers to do so so what does the developers do? They go with an easy way of adding tablet functionality without any work. THey just have the second screen to be for mini maps and inventory.

Smart Glass and PS Vita will not be forced on games either because there are not enough numbers of the vita or tablets that will be compatible with glass for developers to add it in. Developers and Publishers will always go for the most broadest and easiest strokes. EA and other publishers are giving their games to independent studios to port their games into the WIi U. So they don't feel its necessary to use their developers for the Wii U.

Hell even with the Wii with the amount of numbers of system they have sold third party didn't feel like it was a good system to develop on. Time to just accept that Nintendo will be the only ones that will be the star on their own system much like they were on the Wii and previous system.

THird party is not going to waste their time and resources on a system that is not only hard to develop for because of the architecture but also they have to use something that is against their design so they give it to new studios that specializes in ports.

Posted 9 months ago #
monkeygourmet
Member

@PB

Maybe, but Wii was not on par with 360 or PS3 graphically.

For all we know, Nintendo may have struck a 'silent' deal with MS and Sony not to release another system till 2014...

That way, everyone wins by getting more mileage out of old tech... Just a thought ;)

Posted 9 months ago #
Phoenixblight
Member

Nintendo didn't make any deal with any system manufacturer. SOny and MS both said they want the 360 and PS3 to last a decade.

Wii with 100 million consoles sold would be a third party's dream and thats why Disney Interactive had EPic Mickey be a Wii exclusive so what happened? THe game sold less than the expected number causing Disney Interactive to lay off a large percent of their employees and then having the sequel be multiplatform.

The Wii was not good for any of the third party developers except for Dance central. Nintendo only worries about themself they can careless about the third party if they cared about the third party like MS and SOny they wouldn't make the system hard to develop for harder than the PS3.

Nice ignoring the fact that EA and major publishers are giving their franchises to new idenpendent studios to develop for the Wii U instead of using their own developers.

Nintendo system is for Nintendo not for third party. If they wanted a system for third party they wouldn't be coming up with a system that is extremely hard to develop for.

Posted 9 months ago #
stretch215
Member

I think the tablet controller would be horrible for competitive Fps. Anything that takes your eyes completely off of the screen will get your ass killed in most cases (unless you're hiding in a corner).

Posted 9 months ago #
monkeygourmet
Member

The problem facing games these days is:

XXX number of sales = success

When you stop relying on bullshit figures and previous estimations, you can get back to gaming!

The 'explosion' in sales figures are directly coralated with COD and IOS games for marketing types...

I.e. 'Angry Birds has 1 billion players', that must make it good!

Unfortunatly, marketing won't let up, this will cause not only Nintendo to fail, but also Sony and MS.

At least Nintendo mix it the fuck up!

Virtual boy, motion control, 3d, power glove, online (Japan), robots, sowing machines, cameras, label printers, etc.. Etc...

It makes gaming FUN!!! :)

Posted 9 months ago #
zinc
Member

Actually Monkey Ninty own possible the 2 biggest gaming franchises ever with Mario & Pokemon.

They were huge before Soap killed a melon or a bird lost its temper. If you are going to point a finger at who's to blame for gamings obsession for killer franchise's, well blame the big N.

Posted 9 months ago #
monkeygourmet
Member

@zinc

Sorry, didn't mean that. :)

More, a multi platform thang! Nintendo always do the bees wax on original software.

Multi-platform seem to be obsessed with crazy sales and multiplayer add ons / season passes at the moment.

Posted 9 months ago #
Phoenixblight
Member

@monkey

THe game industry is there to get money there is no other reason. Nintendo,MS,SOny are all in it to get paid and with the demand of more polygons, more content, innovative features all cost money and they aren't cheap. You need programmers,producers,artists,animators and designers who all get paid 50-80k a year and you have 30-multiple hundred employees excluding the cost of the software if there is any middleware, license fees, studio cost. Nintendo puts the same amount of money as MS and SOny do for their IPs, the difference is Nintendo sell their consoles as pure profit they don't take a loss.

Get over this idea that gaming is some type of noble gesture. All developers make a game to get paid. They just want to be paid for what they enjoy. Nintendo is no different than anyone else in that respect. THey just go after families and the casual demographic.

Posted 9 months ago #
Erthazus
Member

"Wii U Touch pad thoughts..."

Simple: No multitouch in 2012 = Crappy device.

Period. With this in mind you can't add something to the gameplay or enchance a mechanic rather then use it for inventory, spec list or make a super casual kiddy game where you throw something.

Posted 9 months ago #
monkeygourmet
Member

@PB

Yeah, of course.

But considering i've been following Miyamoto's 'work' and vision since i was young, i guess it has a special place to me.

Thing is, his idea's for mario and zelda, (from what he has explained from his childhood), have really come to life in videogame form.

Mario's feeling of exploring a new world is always perfect, zelda;

With The Legend of Zelda, Miyamoto sought to make an in-game world that players would identify, a "miniature garden that they can put inside their drawer."[20] He drew his inspiration from his experiences as a boy around Kyoto, where he explored nearby fields, woods, and caves; each Zelda title embodies this sense of exploration.[20] "When I was a child," Miyamoto said, "I went hiking and found a lake. It was quite a surprise for me to stumble upon it. When I traveled around the country without a map, trying to find my way, stumbling on amazing things as I went, I realized how it felt to go on an adventure like this."[22] He recreated his memories of becoming lost amid the maze of sliding doors in his family home in Zelda's labyrinthine dungeons.

Of course profit is king, Nintendo happens to be one of the only companies i don't mind parting with my cash for though.

Always a high standard, always stepping away from the normal stuff, always consistant...

Posted 9 months ago #
monkeygourmet
Member

@Erth

Have you played Skyward Sword?

What did you think of it? Im assuming you played on Dolphin! ;)

You must admit, it was a masterclass for RPG control and interaction...

Not bad for a Gamecube!

Posted 9 months ago #
zinc
Member

@Monkey , Thinking more on my previous comment . Ninty 's franchise success might explain Western devs reluctance to work with their consoles.

Jeoulousy. Ninty have never really needed Western devs have they? And yet their still the big hitter from the East.

@Erthazuz, Crappy device offering never before had experience on a console? Worked once...

Posted 9 months ago #
polygem
Member

@erth: you aint serious are you? there´s a mic as well on that thing and 10+ buttons, gyrosensors and rumble too and even more features. it´s more than enough. i have never seen a problem in the ds being not very powefull and i cannot see why the lack of multitouch will be a problem here. simpler is so much better most of the time! it depends of what developers do with it. all i want is great games with some clever and fun touchpad elements.

these are no nintendo games but i have played them on nintendo platforms recently: i replayed all the castlevania ds games and played cave story 3d for the first time...such awesome games. some of the best i have ever played on any system. a great game is a great game is a great game. hardware isn´t as importnt as people make it to be. the wiiu is a hd console, slightly more powerful than ps360 with a touchpad - this is awesome enough if you ask me. nintendo will be clever enough to make great use of this touchpad just as they made great use of the n64 stick, the ds features, the 3ds features and the wiimote...

Posted 9 months ago #
freedoms_stain
Moderator

I think it's an interesting device. I wonder how it feels in the hands, how heavy it is etc.

Some nice features on it. I like the mic and headphone jack on the unit. No headset required, just plug in your standard headphones and away you go.

The TV remote feature is nice too.

My concern is that it's not actually advanced enough. 6.2 inch screen, 854×480 resolution, resistive touch, no multi-touch. 7 inches or better, at least 720p, preferably 1080p display with a capacitive multi-touch panel would have been properly impressive.

The notion of playing on the personal screen when you can't get on the tv is cool, but on a tiny low res screen, it's not as attractive a proposition unless you're playing something like NSMB where it'll scale down nicely. I don't relish the idea of playing a Batman or a Mass Effect or a Darksiders game on that tiny screen.

As for the type of touch panel, multi-touch just gives you so much more freedom for intuitive manipulation in terms of zooming, twisting, moving things on the screen. Single touch limits you to having on-screen buttons for the most part. Also limits the potential for having actual touch-based game content on that screen. Capacitive screens are just much better in terms of sensitivity and tracking.

Cost is an issue, perhaps, but then I think the timing of this console is just shit. I would have waited closer to MS and Sony's offerings. In a year or 2 the cost of production for their hardware comes down and they can build a truly impressive version of their Gamepad instead of this cheapo one.

I can't see any benefit to Nintendo on releasing now unless they're hoping for some killer apps to emerge in between The release of the Wii-U and the PS4/Xbox 3.

Clearly the Wii-U is going to occupy the same sort of niche as the Wii, cheaper less powerful unit with an innovative gimmick as a hook, but why release it now? Being first to the market doesn't benefit them here when the current platforms are still going relatively strong unless Wii software sales are tanking worse than I seem to realise.

What Nintendo really need right now is really good software. They need some good unique IP. You used to get loads of new titles in different genre's when new consoles came out, I think that died a bit this generation, not entirely, but it feels like there have been more cross-generation sequels and less new stuff.

Games that would be good to see on the Wii-U:

- A new arcade racer not made by EA
- A new JRPG - something different to what SE are doing
- A new Western RPG(s), In particular A-RPG's are rather under-represented on Consoles and the touch screen could go some way to solving the difficulty of skill access.
- An old skool FPS, the kind where you carry 10+ guns, at least half of which are completely made up and ridiculous, where you have health and armour and the level design is less of a corridor. The touch screen could give you access to all the guns quickly without the need for a selection radial.
- A more modern FPS that doesn't resemble a homage to CoD if possible.
- New beat em up

You get the idea, new stuff. The fact that a bunch of current gen titles are being ported to the Wii-U means nothing to me, every single one of them I can get on PC and would rather have on PC, gimmie something new that doesn't have Mario's face on it.

Posted 9 months ago #
DrDamn
Member

@freedoms_stain
I agree with some of your points regarding tech for the screen. I prefer capacitive to resistive, whilst I don't think multi-touch is a deal breaker it certainly limits. Screen resolution is an interesting one too - 720p makes a lot more sense in terms of scaling. They obviously wanted to hit a price point with the machine - and also cost of second screened pads. Hence compromises have been made.

"Clearly the Wii-U is going to occupy the same sort of niche as the Wii, cheaper less powerful unit with an innovative gimmick as a hook, but why release it now?"

90m+ is one hell of a niche!

A clear run at a set of disposable income for a start. Leave MS & Sony to fight it out next year. It's also been clear for a while that Wii has been running out of steam - quicker than PS3/360. Nintendo are making losses and they need new things to sell. If they want to capitalise on the success of the Wii they need to release sooner rather than later.

Cheaper may not be so true this time round - at least at launch. I can't see MS & Sony going much over £300 and the rumoured prices of the WiiU put it in that ballpark. So fleece the faithful this season ready for a price reduction in time for PS4/NextBox?

Back on the main topic, a couple of areas where the Touch Pad could shine is in the MMO environment and socially. You've got an input device which can handle user definable hotkeys and mini keyboard input. I wouldn't be surprised if MS and Sony to have some sort of solution for text input in their controllers too.

Posted 9 months ago #
Phoenixblight
Member

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/177336/How_will_Microsoft_and_Sony_respond_to_the_Wii_U_launch.php#.UE3vnY1lSAU

This article brings up some interesting ideas. If Sony and MS do a price cut after the announcement of Wii U price it would definitely kill off its steam.

Posted 9 months ago #
Gekidami
Member

^ The PS3 ultra slim with a price cut will launch at the same time, i bet.

Posted 9 months ago #
monkeygourmet
Member

@Gek

Yup, that sounds about right to me. Prob why it hasn't been announced yet.

Posted 9 months ago #
DrDamn
Member

There have already been a few unofficial price reductions in the UK. ShopTo have PS3/320Gb and 360/250Gb systems for £180/£175 respectively. Looks to be heading towards a £150 price point for both with sizeable storage included. This is why I thought the purported E350 price points were way too high. At least to sell to anyone other than big fans.

It could be a sell high when they have a clear run and reduce when the competition come, but that may cause too many to wait and then get one of the other systems.

Posted 9 months ago #
polygem
Member

even with price cuts for ps360 i do not think it will be a big problem for the wiiu. a 250-299 model would definiteley help, sure, but even 350 is well priced imho and people will buy it i believe. don´t underestimate the selling power of the tablet. tablets are "the thing" right now. i really do think the mass crowd will buy into that...there´s the 18 to 28ish self crowned hardcore crowd that doesn´t like nintendo games which wont buy into the wiiu but everyone else interested in games will, at some point happily pay the 250 to 350 euro if they deliver with the software too and if the online features are right...and miiverse looks fantastic if you ask me. looks like a lot of fun, especially in combination with the tablet. i already love the mailing system on the 3ds atm. mailing stupid hybrid pictures of me and my girlfriend (manwoman) and pics of my nintendog to friends. drawing stuff and then mail it...what they are promising with miiverse sounds like great great fun.

Posted 9 months ago #

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