Innovating games... What would you do?

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Innovating games... What would you do?

(26 posts)

Started 9 months ago by ejams
Latest reply from Ali

ejams
Member

Everyone wants innovation in games, it's why we buy new games in the first place (hold for CoD ;)). Game developers are constantly being rattled for new ideas, and if the ones they come up with slightly resemble an already "used" one, they get even more negative attention.

What I want to know is what kind of innovations/ideas you, the VG247 community, want to see or think is perfect for a game or genre.

Now I'm not a very creative person, and I know this isn't a very good example, but it's something I've wanted to see for awhile: an immersive first-person option for Grand Theft Auto. Now before the backlash and butthurt is released about this relating to FPS, think about it. If it was done in a way like Mirror's Edge or Crysis where you can see your body, and the shooting was good, it would be a completely new game running around in first person. I came up with the idea while driving and flipping through the camera options and seeing the not-so good driving version. I then saw the mod for it for the PC version and it looked good, but it wasn't dedicated, it was just a camera attached to the world model.

How about you guys? Let's hear it :D

*EDIT

A better example would be in what direction could (or should) first-person -shooters move in next, because we all know that the whole modern day military gun everything down Michael Bay set-piece image is getting stale.

It's not the only genre that should be thinking about innovation, but right now in everyone's mind it is needing it the most.

Also, with the new generation of consoles on the horizon, what do you think this new era of technology will allow for innovation-wise next?

Posted 9 months ago #
DSB
Member

I'm not sure people want innovation as much as they want originality. In terms of innovation, games have pretty much been moving backwards.

AI is barely a factor anymore, and games like BF3 had the Commander role taken out, and Modern Warfare 3 had its killstreaks nerfed.

I think the craft is lacking.

A lot of videogames just aren't very good at pacing or storytelling. And I think that's a result of the business. Other mediums spend a lot on writers for example, and if a script isn't good enough, it's not going to be made into a movie. You'd never see the same thing with a game.

Ultimately I think games fail to compensate for not having the kinds of specialists that you have in a movie production, for example. You have scenographers, photographers, serious writers. People who work hard to put together the scenes very carefully.

In a videogame, designers often have to be scenographers and photographers in one, and often they come up short.

Posted 9 months ago #
OrbitMonkey
Member

I'd include a Girlfriend Mode in any First Person Shooter.

Posted 9 months ago #
Kabby
Member

Too soon. :)

The truth of it is, ideas aren't valued and everyone thinks they have a good idea.
This leaves a creative vacuum of huge proportions and you end up with games full of second rate shit.

The roles are also heavily compacted as DSB mentions. You end up with people performing multiple roles and getting paid peanuts for doing so.

Posted 9 months ago #
Giskard
Member

There's one game I would want made more than anything. It's a zombie survival MMO, wherein you are a survivor (to begin with). Now, it will play similar to DayZ at the start, but would ideally have a massive crafting system, where you can craft almost anything.

Now, the goal of the game, is simply rebuilding the world. You may start out alone, with a hut, or a group of friends. You build a sanctuary for yourselves, and may be able to "secure" it from bandits once you build enough defensive structure (Disable PvP in that area). After that, you can keep on building.

To build though, you need materials scattered in ruins of the old civilization. Here there are zombies, which can infect you, and there are also bandits (Other, less nice players). Should you get bitten by a zombie, you turn into one, and CAN communicate with other players, but the downside being that you're a zombie and can at any time go into a frenzy and kill them.

As such, there could be potential zombie towns, or similar, akin to the ones seen in Fallout.

There should also be a way to de-zombiefy yourself (even though this is slightly outside of zombie lore, it's mostly for gameplay).

If all of this was made possible, with sensible progression and a huge world, I'd give a kidney for it. DayZ is a step in the right direction, but it's very small, and virtually no crafting.

Posted 9 months ago #
OlderGamer
Moderator

I think I agree with a good bit of DSBs thinking. Almost always do.

But I also have to wonder if today one big problem is convergance. Esp graphicly. For example if we look at three fictious racers, featuring real cities and real cars, we would find some striking similarities. If the games had a Ford Focus in them and raced in London and New York City. The result would likly be that in each game the Ford car would look exactly the same. And worse, both settings for London and NY would look and feel the same.

The end result is that all three games would not have too much diversity.

It could feel like your playing the same game if you were to buy all three.

The same type of thing goes for different generes. If your making a modern day FPS, wartime game your going to have a difficult time not looking and even feeling like every other game of the same ilk. Not only the looks of the game. But, if you consider that modern day games have an expected course of action(controls) your alos going to get games that feel like other games.

If you go back to a few gens ago and take a look at say Contra and compared it to say Shock Troopers. Or anything else. And you get different looks and different feels. The games themself can even have different acting guns. You can't do that if your CoD or BF, because your firepower is and the way it act in game is limited by its actual real life behavior. An M16 is an M16. It can't shoot homing bullet or fire plasma shoots. It is just a M16. Same is true for any other real life gun.

In the end, just like the racers, you have a fps game with more in comon then they do that makes them stand apart.

Take this situation and add a few years. Toss is yearly sequels. And in the end gmers feel like they are playing the same games over and over. The games are different but the experiences are very similar.

So they cry out for inovation.

I don't think inovation is really the problem. I think in the Trip A console space there is a convergance of sorts. As games inch towards photrealism and game engines/phyisic becomes more and more true to life, it make sense to me that the experiences that big block buster games blur the lines between each other.

As for inovation, please go look at some of what the indie community is offering. If your a XB360 fan, browse arcade and indie. If your PS, look over PSN. If your a Nintendo only gamer, even the Wiiware has some choice titles. But if you really wanna see inovation go look at a PC. A Vally Without Wind is one I am enjoying the hell out of right now. If you want inovation, and something unique, something you haven't played to death already, go look for some indie stuff.

Posted 9 months ago #
DSB
Member

I think there's a lot to be said for how you actually use those parts though. The designer can do whatever he wants, if it's within his means, daring and imagination.

Assassins Creed always struck me as such a waste of an otherwise brilliant idea.

Instead of taking this - actually interesting - old muslim order from the old days, they turn it into some superhero-fighting-supervillain saving-the-world nonsense where being that assassin is more of a chore, than an actual calling, or a way of life to be understood.

Instead of killing people for a deeper reason, such as ideological differences or political gain, you're just killing them because "Duh, they're evil guys".

Instead of making the assassins intelligent, skilled and stealthy, they often have them rely on brute force and technology, so you're really more of a martial artist, than an actual artist of cunning and murder.

Instead of actually centering around the lives of these great assassins, they decide to tether it all to a pointless techno meta-plot where you're trying to avenge this unknown guy, for no real personal reason, while providing a constant reminder that you're not actually there, but merely running a computer program.

What part of being an ancient assassin wasn't awesome already? Why muck it up?

It's such a waste of a great premise. Somehow they manage to completely ignore any kind of real depth that the game might have had.

Posted 9 months ago #
Ireland Michael
Moderator

Go back to the basic. Good gameplay first, everything else second.

Want innovation in your games? Buy an iPad.

Posted 9 months ago #
DrDamn
Member

@OG
I agree and would like to see more visual diversity, but playing a little devils advocate there is also another viewpoint. There is great diversity even within sub-genres. Sure Battlefield, MoH, CoD shooters all look quite similar with similar elements - but they also play differently too. If it's not your type of game it's easy to dismiss them all as very similar, but down to the nitty gritty of how them play, what they focus on etc, they are different games. If you are a fan of the sub-genre then there is actually a better chance you can find the modern military shooter which suits your personal tastes. You aren't restricted in choice. In that respect it a good thing no?

The issue is then that too much resource is focused on these more popular sub-genres at the expense of overall diversity.

Posted 9 months ago #
viralshag
Member

@DSB, I have to ask, have you actually played any of the AC games past maybe the first one?

@OG, That's an extremely limited view and a cheap cop out to say something along the lines of "they all look the same."

There is plenty of diversity in gaming today and that even includes genres like FPS. You're telling me that BF3 is like Bioshock? Or that Fallout is like CoD?

Innovation will never be the selling point for gamers because too many of them compare it to the "good old days". Give them a console and they say the PC is better, give them a controller and they will say a mouse and keyboard is what they want, give them voice control they say it's too slow, give them motion control and they say it's a gimmick.

Posted 9 months ago #
GwynbleiddiuM
Member

@DSB EXACTLY, that's why after first one I didn't go for the others. 1st one had such a wight to it, and then after that it was meeeeh.

No disputes over your previous comment, well not much to debate at least. :D

@OG true.

--

Now, now. Innovation isn't as much as issue that the tired old plans to make quick money is. If you're a student of history, you'd realize every decent developer lost their way when they merged with a mega publisher. Those days that they were independent (not as independent as they would liked it maybe) they had room for squeezing new ideas into their games, they used to add more stuff to make more lasting impression.

in less than a decade, we turned from an industry that used to make lasting experiences with innovations here and there with smaller budgets for cheaper end product, to unimpressive quick fixes, highly budgeted and overly priced devoid of any lasting value, most of the time shoved down the gamers' throat because they have a fucking multiplayer mode.

Of course there exceptions, but overall this is what we have today, we need a change in how the industry is handled. We need to separate development from investment, but that of course wouldn't work because investor's would bail on the industry. So we're stuck, as stuck as stuck can get.

Posted 9 months ago #
DSB
Member

viralshag: Finished one and two, and played a bit of Brotherhood. But I really only went for Brotherhood because it was free with a GFX purchase :P

Posted 9 months ago #
ManuOtaku
Member

I agree with most of the commenters especially Ireland when he stated gameplay first, but i will also add we need an improvement the AI on games, much of DSB complains about AC is because in some part the lack of a great AI, for instance this AI will need to react to the assasins moves in order to get the target, but they just fight, they dont try to survive with different tactics, like make you fall on traps, setting up undervocer guards that you need to find them out previous the attack, all the early planification stages an assasination requeries, that will be great and will add a lot, i know maybe some of you guys will laugh, but the last game that impress me with a good AI that i wasnt seen befere was halo, and since then not other game stroke me in the same way, not that in today games we found good AI, is not that, but i didnt find any new AI that makes me feel we reach another level, like it did with Halo, and this is important for gameplay improvements too.

Posted 9 months ago #
Ireland Michael
Moderator

AI is an artificial dead end in game design.

How exactly do you make it "better"? If the AI gets smarter, it gets harder to defeat. If its too easy, there's no challenge.

There is already more than enough processing power in modern consoles to create elaborate, intricate AI. Heck, Halo had that, and that was last generation! People who think the next generation of consoles are going to briing about some sort of evolutionary leap in AI in games are kidding themselves. It's just going to be same old games with prettier graphics.

Nothing is stopping existing developers. They just can't be bothered to put in the effort.

Posted 9 months ago #
DSB
Member

I don't see the primary purpose of AI as providing a challenge. That's obviously the case in something like a strategy game, but in an action game I see it more as a question of immersion.

Having a bunch of top trained military guys act like unresponsive lobotmized goons is just underwhelming.

The common AI does two things today. Duck, and shoot. It's really not any kind of a challenge. If you duck while they shoot, and shoot while they duck, you're going to win every single firefight you get into, and sadly that goes for the vast majority of shooters today.

You're essentially winning by being the most inactive guy on the map in something that calls itself an "action game". Where's the thrill in being sensible? I think that's awful from a gameplay perspective, and it's certainly the primary reason why the words "coverbased shooter" just makes me sigh.

"DO YOU HAVE THE KIND OF INNER PEACE IT TAKES TO GO ON THIS AMAZING ACTION ADVENTURE?"

The answer is yes, but only because I want to win, instead of getting cheesed by AI who magically hit their target every time they fire, because they aren't smart enough to challenge me with a real response to what I'm doing.

Worse than being dumb, it's just boring.

Posted 9 months ago #
ejams
Member

@DSB that's more what I was aiming for, getting smarter and harder as an opponent is one thing, but having them actually act in an immersible way is what I really want to see.

Posted 9 months ago #
fearmonkey
Member

I would be happy if developers and publishers would stop making the same modern and SCIFI FPS games over and over. Innovation is great, but just stepping out a creative rut would be nice too.

There are certain game styles that I would love to see remade and updated, like Descent/Forsaken (The free roaming corridor shooters), Heretic (The fantasy FPS games), Battlezone (3D FP RTS), Mech games (Mechwarrior online and the Mechassualt like upcoming title has me happy though), Crimson skies (Snoopy was the only one), VTM:B etc.
Instead we have Call of Duty: Forever, Battlefighter 12, Lost in space with armor and guns 19, etc....

There were certain games that I just loved that no one makes that style of game really. It was been so wonderful that the free-roam Deus ex style gameplay has made a resurgence, but there is so much that still could be done.

I find myself bored with games lately, and going back and playing old titles that have different endings and playstyles. Fallout:new vegas has kept me entertained lately, and I think Im starting to agree with TheWulf that it was better than Fallout 3 overall.

I would be sooooo happy for a heretic remake....

Posted 9 months ago #
DSB
Member

Open ended gameplay is making a resurgence... Where?!

Posted 9 months ago #
polygem
Member

gameplay>artdesign>sounddesign>graphics...and tetris during the loading screens of course.

Posted 9 months ago #
oliviasmith
Member

I think worldcup bomber man .

Posted 9 months ago #
Christopher Jack
Member

More player freedom. If I want to enter any random house in say, GTA, I should be able to but the fact is, most of it is just walls, not buildings & houses. Another is physics, something like Red Faction but on the scale of again, GTA. Imagine being able to blow up parts of 100+ story tall buildings, awesome! Bullets should also be able to penetrate walls & fences. Back to physics, ever notice the water in skyrim? It looks fine until you see it hitting the land & then they it just blends in- they should aim at making it much more realistic. Another is removal of cutscenes, it should be able to run entirely from the game's engine. Variation is another thing that needs improvement.

@Polygem, Art Design is part of graphics.

Posted 9 months ago #
DrDamn
Member

@CJ
"If I want to enter any random house in say, GTA, I should be able to but the fact is, most of it is just walls, not buildings & houses."

Thing is what do you want to find in there? It would just be more walls not content :). Realistically you can only go so far.

"Bullets should also be able to penetrate walls & fences"

Quite a few games already do this.

"Back to physics, ever notice the water in skyrim? It looks fine until you see it hitting the land & then they it just blends in- they should aim at making it much more realistic."

That would be nice and obviously look better, but would it really innovate?

"Another is removal of cutscenes, it should be able to run entirely from the game's engine."

Cut Scenes should always be done in engine. If you want to mask game loading then render it in engine and just play back the movie. Got to be a lot cheaper to produce too. Ideally cut scenes should still leave you with control and the ability to wander about, stand in the corner and jump up and down ruining your own immersion - that sort of thing :)

Posted 9 months ago #
Christopher Jack
Member

Ah yes, no in-game loading, everything should be done while booting the game. Entering a new place like a regular house shouldn't lead us to a black loading screen.

Posted 9 months ago #
Ali
Member

They come up with something new that actually works. It doesn't have to be an ambitious game as much as it has to be creative and original. Heavy Rain tried to bring a little to the table but didn't really win the title.

Posted 9 months ago #
Gadzooks!
Member

Bizarrely I agree completely with CJ. Physics and freedom.

I'd also like better enemy AI.

I think innovation is here though, and getting stronger. The PC Indie scene, XBLIG, XBLA and PSN have lots of innovative games. They are getting more and more popular in comparison to staid blockbusters too.

This new wave of small studios can transition over to next-gen systems better in theory, as they tend to make games which are less graphics intensive and generally faster to develop.

Posted 9 months ago #
Ali
Member

I think you guys should start looking at what the European studios offer. Their recent years efforts have been really good and that's done at a much lower budget. Also, I hope we see a surge of new studios (even if not AAA) in countries that havent produced games/world wide entertainment products.

In general I don't expect innovation at already established franchises, the devs don't love to play it risky when it comes to make a sequel. I am afraid that none of the publishers would really branch more and try to innovate as the costs are getting high. We have actually been living through this in the current generation.

I won't say the the mobile gaming is where the innovation is all about ( I don't believe that) but to create innovation not only publishers but also gamers need to participate by supporting and buying products that are new and aren't really produced by your ava orate studio.

Also a lot of diversity has been lost when the Japanese devs hit this low and started to get westernized. I am not a fan of Japanese games or anime culture (total respect to that and fans) , but damn many people used to love Japanese games in the old generations. I think ther is a lot of innovation there.

I don't think we should speak of innovation when great games died out because of poor sales.

Posted 9 months ago #

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