Friend of mine came back from the dev camp for WIndows 8 and WIndows or Microsoft will not be enforcing the app store on to developers as the only way to update software or get them and WIndows will not be taking any profit from devs with WIndows 8 so as I said Gabe, BLizzard and whomever were screaming fire where there is none. It will be the case for the smart phones and tablets though but really who didn't see that coming?
Windows 8(38 posts)
That is nice to hear :)
It really was just GabeN who was whining. The others were pretty much just echoing him. But yeah, people just hate Windows 8 because it is cool to hate on it. So far i've had no problems with the OS for gaming, quite the opposite compared to Windows 7 actually, and there are no problems developing on it either.
*Incoming lots of that sad's and certainly's*
Only time will tell if Windows decide to change their mind and force it on the PC. If they do, Microsoft will score a huge own goal because the likes of Blizzard and Valve/Steam certainly have the power to switch to Linux.
Once Linux becomes a viable gaming platform, Microsoft will be in deep shit
While I don't really have any idea of this sort of thing, would Linux being a viable gaming platform really mean that much?
I mean, I'm sure MS are happy to have the gaming side of things but how popular is Linux in the business space, which is where I'm sure MS wants to be the first choice.
I would have thought the business sector, regular home desktop and laptop users (not necessarily the "gamers") would be a much larger slice of the pie than gamers.
I just can't see the likes of HP, Dell and other PC suppliers being that quick to disregard Windows when mass supplying to businesses.
I think it's hilarious people thought they were going to enforce anything like that in the first place.
The slippery slope is rarely slippery.
Good grief, Michael and PB. If you try any harder to ignore what people are actually saying, you're gonna end up like TheWulf.
The notion of Microsoft closing down Windows 8 was always a long shot, and it wasn't the main source of concern for any of those people. That's a pretty selective way of ignoring what they are actually saying.
They're saying that Windows RT is the real focus of this iteration, a prototype, and that Microsoft are looking for a fully closed line-up by the time the next Windows hits.
So far Windows 8 just looks like a poorly designed interface, it's been confirmed to have the appstore as a fully optional feature on the PC for quite a while now. That was never in dispute.
@DSB You're being paranoid. You're afraid of a slippery slope that doesn't even exist. You're clutching st straws.
Any other overused phrase I can use? =P
I'm heading downstream without a paddle? :p
It would be paranoid to be concerned about something for no reason what so ever.
In this case, I'm concerned that industry leaders - across several different industries - are concerned, and that analysts are apparently backing those concerns as being fully credible.
These aren't bored housewives, who need to make shit up for the thrill of it.
Ultimately you can't prove a negative, and none of us have access to any of their sources, so there's really no closure here for any of us.
But just for the sake of argument, why wouldn't Microsoft actually do it?
U mad bro?
@DSB Because nobody would support it. Microsoft knows from countless experience that any attempt to close off Windows will never succeed, because the PC owners will never, ever support it. They'll just hack it open again.
That and the fact that the Pc space is so damn huge and spread out that it would never actually be possible to contain it. Microsoft would probably be forced out of that kind of approach due to anti-monopolization laws anyway.
"While I don't really have any idea of this sort of thing, would Linux being a viable gaming platform really mean that much?"
At the moment no. You can get compatiability layers like WINE or run Windows on a virtual machine which can work for most pieces of software but for games Linux users usually just dual boot into Windows and play games because Windows is supported by Nvidia and AMD where the gpu manufacturers rarely make drivers for Linux. Then developers especially triple A ones rarely port a Linux version. Steam will be doing Linux client but it will only work with their games and devs that actually make a linux version so it will still be better just going back into windows.
Ok, so would you say Linux and Macs are on the same sort of level when it comes to gaming. I just find it funny that considering how popular Macs are these days, the platform still seems to be a second thought when it comes to game development.
And if that was the case, I sort of find it hard to believe that Linux would suddenly jump to the forefront for gaming when the Mac OS hasn't.
Again, I'm pretty clueless about the ins and outs of it, so this is all rather fascinating :P
"And if that was the case, I sort of find it hard to believe that Linux would suddenly jump to the forefront for gaming when the Mac OS hasn't."
Yeah MS would have to do something extremely horrible for OEMs, gpu manufacturers, devs to suddenly jump ship to Linux which no one seems to be doing that with WIndows 8.
Mac gamers just dual boot Windows. If Windows 8 manages to drive away enough market share, it may encourage developers to finally prioritize OpenGL over DirectX- then we will start seeing games launched simultaneously across all PC systems. For the Linux side of things, we'll still need to see much more support from both Nvidia & AMD before it ever becomes a viable choice for gaming.
@Michael Surely you realize the difference between a platform with a jailbreak and one that is actually open.
An open platform sustains commercial use, a jailbroken one only sustains the amateur hacking/modding community.
I don't see Apple being forced out of their business model based on anti-trust laws. It's Microsofts platform, they can allow or disallow any use of it they care to, as long as it's done in "good faith".
Where are the free market options on the PS3, tablets, phones, 360 or the Wii? Seems to me like highly controlled platforms aren't violating any laws.
I don't think it matters to Microsoft that they might only have 25% left of their marketshare, if those 25% are actually making them money, where the 98% was not.
Do the virtues of shared progress, enterprise and freedom matter more to Microsoft than the potential for profit? I don't think they see it that way.
If MS would go the RT route there would be a huge issue with it because it would be violating anti-trust laws. Stop using Apple as a an example because they are only a drop in the pond for the PC market.
You want to go with this slippery slope argument go ahead but for now WIndows 8 is not going that direction. BTW Gabe specifically said WIndows 8 is a catastrophe not what it could lead to is one. You are grabbing at straws and just won't let it go. There is no proof of MS enforcing a completely closed market on the PC users so wheres the fire? The fact that Windows is making their smart phone and tablets completely closed like their competitors some how those two things mean the same thing? That is one weak ass argument.
Fair enough PB, show me those anti-trust laws, and I'll take that argument seriously :)
I'm not argueing anything, except the fact that I find it very conspicuous that most businesses who are currently using Windows as a major avenue for business, are finding it worth their while to voice their concerns.
You have no idea what Gabe Newell was specifically referring to when he called Windows 8 a catastrophe, and neither do I, so drawing a conclusion seems awfully arrogant. Obviously, according to research analysts, Windows 8 signifies a new strategy on the part of Microsoft, so why wouldn't he be referring to what it signifies for the industry as a whole?
There's no proof we know of, but there's obviously a lot of indications, and certainly an agreement among the people watching, that that's the entire basis of Microsofts strategy going forward. Enough to make everyone from Google and Mozilla to Blizzard and SOE call it a disaster.
Did they just get out of bed in the morning and decide to call Microsoft out for no reason? I find that somewhat unlikely.
You can keep putting words in everybody's mouthes all you care to, but I really don't understand where your faith in Microsoft is coming from. They're already running two closed platforms, they're running one of the worst games DRM services on the market, and they're obviously investing in it, so why wouldn't they make it three for three?
Until you come up with an answer to that, that makes any kind of sense - The notion that Apple can get away with, but Microsoft can't really isn't impressive, and has nothing to do with how laws actually work - I reserve the right to note that a united tech and games industry are apparently quite concerned, by the direction taken by Microsoft.
"that a united tech and games industry are apparently quite concerned that it's going to happen."
not as United as you may think EPic, Take Two and Unity engine are for Windows 8. You say I am putting words in others mouth but here you are doing the exact same thing.
"There's no proof we know of, but there's obviously enough talk to make analysts suggest that that's the entire basis of Microsofts strategy going forward, and certainly enough to make everyone from Google and Mozilla to Blizzard and SOE call it a disaster."
Because they had believed that MS was doing the same closed platform as their phone and tablet devices but they aren't. I haven't seen Google exactly pushing their OS beyond the chromebook if WIndows 8 is such a disaster than it would be time to putting more effort in taking MS down, no?
As far as the anti-trust laws go its the same reason why ATT couldn't buy out Tmobile since Tmobile and ATT holds majority of the phone market, the US government blocked ATT from buying Tmobile. Apple has no where near as much control as WIndows so Windows doing something like RT on the PC market would be doing something similar where it gave windows all the control over the majority of the PC market which is in violation of the anti-trust law.
No one is talking about Windows 8 being the platform that introduced it, they were purely talking about it as a prototype for a closed platform.
"Windows 8 is a transitional product -- Microsoft's awkward teenage stage of growing into a post-PC world," says Sarah Rotman Epps, an analyst at Forrester Research. "ARM (ARMH) and Metro are the future of the Windows platform, but they're not ready to completely get rid of the desktop just yet."
Would you mind showing me who is actually talking about Windows 8 as being the introduction of that system? I haven't seen it anywhere.
Have you provided any links to those Unity, Take Two and Epic statements? I also don't see them anywhere, and I also don't quite see how one tech company, one small publisher, and one developer (whose biggest franchise is a 360 exclusive) equals anywhere near the weight of companies like Google, Valve and Sony.
There's quite a big difference between a merger that would create a virtual monopoly, and a company simply defining a business model for its very own product, wouldn't you say?
I am done arguing with you its pointless and stupid especially since you don't have any evidence other than analysts and competitors conjecture. You can put your bets into whatever doomsday belief you have but there is no evidence of what you say other than people that are paid to make stuff up and what MS competitors have to say who are naturally bias.
My point of this article was to prove that WIndows 8 is not doing what people believed where the app store will be forced on developers and that they will have to pay a percentage for it. My job is done.
I'm not the one with a foregone conclusion, I just think it's worth paying attention when several industries sound the alarm.
Time will tell.
Valve feel threatened because Windows will be offering an a store that comes with every Windows 8 device that devs can put their games into at no cost pay a small fee to advertise their games and reap their rewards which MS doesn't take a cut out of. That is why Gabe is scared every user can just go to the windows app store and get a game or an app and not need to go through steam which takes a cut from every sell. That is why Gabe is putting the client on Linux to hedge his bets this app also threatens google who also have a similar store. See why I don't listen to the competitors because windows 8 store competes with them so naturally they are going to be against it. I would be doing the same thing in any other discussion. If a well known third party comes in with no investment in the competition says Windows is the worst thing to happen since HIV. I would be more inclined to listen to them. Valve,Blizzard,Stardock all have a digital store front which will compete with windows.
@DSB, the problem is that it's a drill and not an actual emergency.
I think the idea that Valve would see an optional Microsoft client as a threat is just utterly laughable. Origin is a much bigger threat to Valves business, because it actually has a major publisher of PC games backing it. Microsoft aren't a major publisher, and they don't have a PC gaming brand, beyond a DRM client that allows games to commit commercial suicide, and which every gamer hates.
I know you're awfully fixated on Valve PB, but that simply makes no sense at all. And why the hell would Mozilla or indie developers care about that?
More competition between distributors would be great for them. A closed platform wouldn't.
@Michael Right, and that's also why you're seeing guys like Smedley, Pardo and Newell holding back, instead of really getting into it.
There's no panic, and no draconian measures being taken. Stardock will keep making desktop software, Valve will keep selling Microsoft Studios or GFWL games, and they'll keep the powder dry for when or if this does happen.
They have no reason to start burning any bridges at the moment, but obviously they think it's worth directing peoples attention to what Microsoft are doing at this stage.
"I know you're awfully fixated on Valve PB, but that simply makes no sense at all. And why the hell would Mozilla or indie developers care about that?
More competition between distributors would be great for them. A closed platform wouldn't."
There is no closed platform we have gone over this. Gabe saw the exact same WIndows 8 that every developer has. THey didn't see some super secret evil version.
"They have no reason to start burning any bridges at the moment, but obviously they think it's worth directing peoples attention to what Microsoft are doing at this stage."
Thats why they haven't gone in detail why Windows 8 is bad other than cryptic messages to fuel people' paranoia like yours.
Now we're just running in circles.
I'm pretty sure the head of a major games, investment or technology company knows a bit more about what's going on at Microsoft, than what they get from a shareware preview.
It's a neccesary part of their job to know. If you think they're freaking out over a public preview that's available to everybody, I think that's shockingly naive. Do they wait for The Journal to tell them what's up or down on Wallstreet too? Come on now...
For the fifth or sixth or seventh time, I haven't formed any sort of conclusion as to what Microsoft are doing. You're the only one in this debate who seems to think he knows exactly what's going on.
All I know is that the industries who depend on Windows as a platform, are concerned with what they know about Microsofts strategy. Given Microsofts history, I think it sounds perfectly plausible that they'd make the move from running two closed platforms, to a full three.
I don't mind repeating that eight, nine, or ten times if it really takes that long to sink in.
Although I guess you can just keep yapping about paranoia, and disregard any actual indication that would support plausibility. In which case I'll just start calling you TheWulf.
"It's a neccesary part of their job to know. If you think they're freaking out over a public preview that's available to everybody, I think that's shockingly naive. Do they wait for The Journal to tell them what's up or down on Wallstreet too? Come on now..."
Did I say that? I said the exact same version as the developers. WIndows did have another version of WIndows 8 explicitly for the developers that is where I got the info that WIndows 8 app store will not be forced on the developers. Herp Derp.
It's been widely available that the App Store in the PC version would be fully optional since at least December.
That was never the issue.
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