http://heltnormalt.dk/img/truth_facts/2012/04/26.jpg
Strictly speaking the image is in Danish, but it just says "religious fanaticism" at the top.
I kinda wish they would've added Microsoft and Sony there :P
Religious Fanaticism
(22 posts)-
Posted 9 months ago #
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From my experience people are far more fanatical about apple than MS or Sony. But i would have liked to see Gabe Newell in there, people just follow him like he is a god or something, and forgets about all the bad things he's done, and is doing for gaming x)
Posted 9 months ago # -
Well DSB, I think you shouldn't be surprised to see that, Apple fans are nuts they call Steve Jobs the prophet down here. It surprises me to see that level of fanaticism, I mean at least Bill Gates have done so many great things both as the founder of Microsoft and now as a human activist he at least is giving back some, I hated his guts as an exclusivist corporate man but I actually admire him for a lot of reasons now.
What did Jobs ever accomplished compared to Gates on both technology front and on a humanitarian level?
There are cults of apple worshipers, I mean what the hell!?
@Talkar Gabe Newell is a legend in game biz, but even his hardcore fans don't worship him, he was never considered a Jesus Christ second coming the way Steve Jobs were to a lot of Apple worms.
Posted 9 months ago # -
And what are those heinous crimes Talkar?
Posted 9 months ago # -
^Steam is the first and best example. It is becoming a monopoly on digital PC gaming and noone can say a monopoly in anything is ever a good thing. Whether or not this has been intentional or not doesn't really matter. In the end it is going to hurt PC gaming. Secondly he goes against what Linux stands for by wanting to throw steam at it. While i'm all for the progress of Linux and gaming on it in particular, and i can definately see the bonuses of how it would potentially be, Linux is still meant to be open source and Steam is about as closed as you can get (yet he cries about how windows is closed).
Posted 9 months ago # -
^That is wrong assessment my friend. Steam is a business model, a digital distribution service, people wont hand out their life's work just because Linux is an open source platform.
And I'm not entirely understand the monopoly thing.
Posted 9 months ago # -
The fact that you can envision a scenario in which Valve suddenly decide to abuse their marketshare, doesn't mean they will.
That kind of paranoia is more of a personal problem in my opinion. Wake me up when they start to go that way.
Steam has gone from having some of the highest prices on the market, brick and mortar or otherwise, to some of the lowest. I pretty much have every PC game I ever wanted thanks to Steam sales. I would've paid twice as much anywhere else, and I wouldn't have gotten the same kind of service.
The fact that it's just as good for the industry, as it is for me, makes it a win/win.
If you ask Richard Stallman, Linux goes against everything GNU stood for. It's fair enough that he thinks so, but to me that's just reverse fanaticism. Linux (and the commercial industry surrounding it) isn't hurting anyone, Steam isn't hurting anyone, and there are a million ways in which they've each improved their respective fields.
I think there's a bit of a difference in talking about a closed platform as opposed to a closed client, that exists as part of one.
Software comes in two varieties, those with a commercial license, and those with an open license. Traditionally, an open platform has enabled both of those to thrive. A closed platform hurts everyone. It means less innovation, less competition, less investment, and that is likely to lead to the sort of stone age design that you'd find on any of the major consoles right now.
A proprietary commercial license on the other hand just means that people make money on doing well. There's a big difference. A closed client thrives on serving people, a closed platform thrives on depriving them.
That's ultimately why the world hasn't gotten dumber as a result of commercial licenses, even if people like Stallman (who I really quite like) will keep pushing that hypothesis.
Posted 9 months ago # -
^I can see you're a fanboy so i won't keep this discussion going as i'm not going to convince you to see my point of view, and you won't convince me to see yours x)
Posted 9 months ago # -
Well, that's certainly an easy way to raise the issue and dodge the argument. I think you're just chicken :)
I don't see any grand defense of Steam up there, just a general defense of choice in a free market, along with at least one of the reasons why Steam is the obvious one for a lot of people.
Personally, I've used Beamdog, GOG, Steam, Desura and GamersGate over the last year.
Hardly digital monotheism.
Aside from that, I have one game on D2D, two games on Origin, and something like 4-5 on Impulse, but the lousy functionality of all three means that I won't be back any time soon.
Posted 9 months ago # -
You're free to think what you want, and a person sees what he wants to see, have a nice evening ;)
Posted 9 months ago # -
@Talkar well it is also easy to accuse someone of being something that he's not without facts and evidence, it is easy to say Gabe Newell is a monopolist beast who doesn't care about anything but the success of his business, it is very easy to call someone who puts time to construct an argument about something that isn't true and is based on no evidence a fanboy, it is easy to just throw crap on people and accuse them of being fanboys and walk away.
This is all easy, the hard part however is when some is trying to have a discussion, spends time to conduct an argument and trying to provide insights and personal experience and bringing up facts that we all actually can see in a very respective manner, and being shut off with comments like "I can see you're a fanboy so i won't keep this discussion going..."
You hardly made anything worthy to be called point, let along convincing anyone to take them as facts and hop on the conspiracy train.
Posted 9 months ago # -
The thing is, there are problems with Steam. It's never been case of anyone argueing for the "ultimate, infallible" client, which just makes it all the more ridiculous to apparently view the argument in that light.
Steam has a lot of weaknesses, and I actually made a case for how someone could potentially challenge their place in the market (if they were serious about outdoing them) in the thread "EA's BIG Trouble".
Paranoia and naiveté are both based on a suspension of common sense. The fact that you can worry, doesn't mean you should. That being said, I don't have a problem seeing the actual weak points.
Fanatical thinking is black and white. If you start seeing fanboys left and right, as soon as your points are challenged, maybe it's worth doing a double take.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Well I'm no pc owning nub, but I'm willing to play Devils Advocate on behalf of those who believe Steam is in fact a BAD thing.
Steam and Gabe for all their championing of the free market, are very obviously against this. Their supposed concern over MS introducing a closed ecosystem had nothing to do with how it would affect gaming, but how it could eat into their marketshare.
The fact Steam are now looking to expand onto Linux is simple proof of Gabe future proofing against the potential loss of profit.
None of this is nefarious to anyone with any business sense and Gabe has plenty. But like the Apple brigade worshipping Jobs, too many pc dweebs believe ol Gabe is some kind of Messiah. He's not.
But giving peeps fancy electronic toys, or cheap games works great at winning the mob over. Look how popular Santa is :-)
Posted 9 months ago # -
I think there's a big difference between cheerleading for someone, and simply seeing a lot of sense in what they say.
The reason why I'm likely to listen to Gabe Newell over a lot of others in the industry, is because he clearly wants to go somewhere. Whether you agree with him or not, he actually wants to do things that no one else is doing, instead of simply making money, for the sake of making money. He was already rich when he started.
I'd call that the lost art of good business. Good business isn't a question of simply getting as much as possible, for as little as possible. It's also a question of realizing when doing a little something extra may benefit your company, even if you'll do just fine without it.
In Steams case you have things that simply aren't done anywhere else. Do you have to add a metagame to one of your monster sales? Obviously not, a monster sale is money in the bank. But that metagame actually serves to add another dimension for the customers, who in turn will end up buying even more.
Trusting in your ideas without five spreadsheets to back it up is plain heresy to the more conservative businesses, but it has served to make Valve richer than all the guys who rely on Gordon Gecko math, and focus groups to show them the way.
It doesn't make Gabe Newell my friend, or my Messiah, but I do think it makes him a leader within the industry. Not the only one, but certainly worthy to be counted.
Posted 9 months ago # -
People like Talkar are funny. They present their own biased opinion, and as soon as someone presents a conflicting opinion, they call them a fanboy and run from the discussion, despite that's person's opinion being well made, well written, and above all, courteous.
Lawl.
I find that image interesting, for one reason.... the Android fanboys are far worse.
Posted 9 months ago # -
repent to get saved!
Posted 9 months ago # -
Fanaticism is always bad, it makes you immune to consider other opinions. I never said Steam is the be all end all, but it made enough contribution and services that me as a consumer of the game industry want to keep go back to them for more. That's fact, that's why I voiced my opinion about what Talkar said and mostly because of his attitude toward different points of view - goodness forbid - someone might have.
Explaining your opinion with mutual respect for others is not some impossible task, DSB does it, OG does it, Phonixblight does it, in a weird way TheWulf does it. People have opinions and it's not always what you wanna hear, but fuck it if you can't be decent enough to hear and digest what others have to say.
As I always said, Steam is a business and people do crazy shit to protect their business and expand it, secure their marketshare and dominance over others. Sometimes it make sense sometimes it doesn't, sometimes we can accept it and other times we can't.
If we can't have a civilized conversation and express ourselves, voice our opinions without someone throw accusations, so what the fuck are we doing here? That's what I'm saying.
Posted 9 months ago # -
This discussion is just pointless. You can find fanatics for almost any cause, but most Steam users are not fanatics, just users who found the best product for their gaming. Heck, if Origin gets cheaper prices and better software, I'll jump ship asap. It just hasn't yet.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Wait, so according to that chart there are more Jewish irreligious fanatics than Christian or Muslim? I find that VERY hard to believe...
...but then again, maybe they did it that way 'cos Jews are the most inclined out of those three to take a joke.
Posted 9 months ago # -
That's a good point Gheritt, I kinda stopped at that too.
But then again, doesn't it make sense? Wahabist Islam is usually practiced by minority elites, or minority militias in the middle east. Generally the strictest enterpretations of Islam don't benefit many people, unless they're in power, or actively seeking it. I think it has more to do with fascism than faith.
If you look at jewish culture, you have the orthodox, the settlers, and quite a number of hardliners outside the country, all within a much smaller population. I think it could be right, when you consider the proportion.
I don't believe in the jewish conspiracy, and I have nothing against the culture or the basic idea of zionism, but it seems pretty obvious to me, not least within Israel, that they have an extremist problem.
Not that the graph was ever supposed to be an "actual" representation of extremism, but I'm not sure it's totally off :P
Posted 9 months ago # -
I am more concern about the direction of the industry is taking, and not for the fanatics or supporters of certain individuals, like Gabe (steam), sony, microsoft, nintendo etc, but more concerns about the people that is not a fanatic, the common and end user, which with every passing generation we are seeing how companys are trying to deny and or diminish the consumers rights in favor of their own rights, this gen and the upcoming one are a prime example of this,the ps3 other OS issue, DLC, DMR, always connected to play a single player game, DLC locked on a Physical format, etc, and the future of an always connected console, with each step they take they are having more control, to a point that everything will becoming like an steam version with upper repercussions, and the thing that each time they modify the TOS and EULA to fortify their position against the consumers, in order to establish more control over them, is really interesting to see that consumers are standing still saying whatever or looking elsewhere, thats where my more concern is, because fans are going to defend this no matter what,thats a given, but the most troubling thing, is when the consumers are not saying or doing anything, instead they are supporting this, encouraging this type of actions.
In this context, the dead of physical media replaced by providers of a service, like steam or cloud gaming, is also a troubling one, especially when they have the key to an account and the complete control over that account, adding to this the fact the internet laws for this kind of transactions are right now in their baby steps/ early stages or are been done or waiting to be done, unless we have strong laws, that defend the user, as well as the provider of the service in equal terms, is something that needs to wait for the proper time and eviroment, legally speaking, i know their business is to sell and to have the most ammount of consumers, but their actions are speaking more than this idea, they are telling they care more about protection and control rather than the user and their rights, is a worrying future, specially for the apathy of the gaming comunity, but not for the fans, instead for common Joe consumer.
Posted 9 months ago # -
That's not really a gamer problem, that's a problem for all of society.
I'm pretty disappointed to look at the US and see people constantly talking about the Second Amendment, like it's somehow the basis for their existence.
It's arguably the least important part of the entire document, as well as one of the least threatened.
Nobody gives a damn about the Fourth Amendment, while US politicians pass legislation that allows people to put you in prison, indefinitely, without trial, and nothing but a single judge, who could be anybody, to save you from rotting.
Somehow the perception becomes that it's a much greater loss to everybody, when you can't buy assault rifles and hollow points at your local gunshop.
That's just the way the cookie crumbles. I don't think there are a lot of groups out there, gamers or otherwise, who are really collectively informed enough to truly act in their own best interests. For better or worse, that's part of who we are :p
Posted 9 months ago #
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