VG247 indie? « VG247 Forum

VG247 Forum » The VG247 forum

VG247 indie?

(23 posts)

Started 11 months ago by DSB
Latest reply from DSB

DSB
Member

I don't get why VG247 doesn't do more to cover the scene. There is a ton of games out there who deserve as much attention as any AAA game.

Usually what gets reported are the bundles, when developers get maybe 75 cents per copy. They don't seem to get much of a chance to really show their games before that.

A Microsoft photo-op - Front page news.
A Playstation sale - Front page news.

Plenty of completely useless promo stuff, but aside from a few charities from Brenna, it almost seems like VG247 is too high and mighty to cover games that don't come with a publisher of a certain size.

I think it's a shame. If anything is general interest right now, it's the indie scene. The AAA are mostly busy rehashing old concepts and making them look prettier, a lot of indies are actually trying to make games that play differently.

Posted 11 months ago #
ManuOtaku
Member

Yep a real shame, you dont know how much i having fun with FEZ and minecraft, i dont want to imagine the gems the PC is receiveing comparing with consoles, i agree i hope they can do more about it here.

Posted 11 months ago #
Ireland Michael
Moderator

They did try it a while back. Apparently nobody was interested.

It has nothing to do with being high and mighty, which frankly is a little insulting to the time and talent the staff of this site put into it. They're just giving the community what it indicated it was interested in.

And believe it or not, on big sites like this, a lot of the community are interested in what deals are going on. I've discovered some of the best gaming sales ever just by reading about them on here.

Posted 11 months ago #
Stephany Nunneley
Member

"Plenty of completely useless promo stuff, but aside from a few charities from Brenna, it almost seems like VG247 is too high and mighty to cover games that don't come with a publisher of a certain size."

Like Mike just said. We tried it. Matter of fact it was ME who suggested it and wrote and entire post on nothing but Indie titles on a weekly basis. Everyone at first said "yay Steph" then stopped clicking it. Then, we put out another survey which indicated no one was interested enough in them - same with mobile which Pat has already discussed with you all.

So yeah, a bit unfair there DSB, esp considering I usually tend to agree with you on quite a few things. You may as well of said I was on Sony or Microsoft's payroll. Kinda hurt, really. :(

Posted 11 months ago #
Giskard
Member

I for one would be glad to be on a Microsoft payroll. They've got some serious money, dude.

In any case, I think that when a fun new indie title rolls out, they (VG staff/writers/hired monkeys/simply monkeys/whatever the title may be ;) ) mention it. I remember a few news recently about both Braid, Limbo & Quantum Conundrum.

Steph is however right. I am more interested in the big players. While indie games are great, and good fun, it's the bigger games I'm more interested in, and devote more of my playtime to.

Posted 11 months ago #
DSB
Member

It wasn't meant as a jab Steph, although I can see how it might have come off that way. Sorry.

But giving them "a weekly post" isn't what I would call letting them in at all. Might as well slap "second tier" on it when you do it like that (even if you poured your heart into those posts).

I pulled out the promo stuff, because really it's mostly useless information, that isn't exactly breaking news to anyone. It's just there to sell the game, and as such it's more relevant to the pubs PR, than the readers. I totally understand why you need that to run a 24 hour news service and fill it with content, and I'm not saying you're bought off or wrong for doing it.

I'm just saying I think there's better stuff than that. Fatshark released Krater a few days ago, along with a perfectly good trailer, and it didn't trigger a single mention. Of course I'm a fanboy for that particular game, so I think it should be on every corner, but objectively, it was also right there on the frontpage of Steam.

I'm pretty sure that you'd all agree that reporting is about more than following surveys, and I'm positive you all do it because you have a genuine interest in the medium. That's exactly why not covering indie makes no sense.

That's where the vast majority of design innovation is right now.

It wasn't meant as an condemnation, I just think the site would be better for it. I don't go anywhere else unless I absolutely feel I have to :)

@Giskard - I'm not saying there isn't any indie content on the site, it just seems reserved for the absolute top tier. Braid and Limbo were both pushed by Microsoft and Quantum Conondrum is pushed by Square Enix.

There are lots of other news sites out there who do cover indie just the same as everything else, and personally I don't see what they lose by covering more of the medium.

Posted 11 months ago #
Giskard
Member

The majority of people don't play indie games - other than the top tier. Supply and demand, my friend.

Posted 11 months ago #
DSB
Member

Supply and demand thankfully doesn't dictate anything to a profession that's meant to inform the world.

Common interest has nothing to do with common preference. Journalists aren't there to tell people whatever they want to hear, they're there to inform them.

If journalism was all about picking the lowest hanging fruit, we'd all be reading about Lady Gagas cupsize in the paper, rather than the stories that matter.

Posted 11 months ago #
AHA-Lambda
Member

The thing is by definition basically indie is small and it doesn't really need to overstretch itself so the addressable market is quite small outside of the few breakout indie hits like SMB, Braid, Limbo, Fez etc.

As much as people may bitch about them, there is a lot of inherent interest in these AAA games and it shows in site traffic, coverage and their sales. You may see people here moan and moan about them all the time, but for every guy that moans about a CoD or a Moh on this site they'll still go out and buy an Arkham City, Skyrim, BF3 or a Assassin's Creed.

Posted 11 months ago #
DSB
Member

But how is any of that ruined by covering the non-publisher backed part of the industry?

I don't disagree with any of what you're saying, but what exactly is lost by including the entire medium, instead of just the parts that are backed by major corporations? I don't see any of the other news sites suffering as a result of doing that.

If I had to guess, I'd say most common gamers out there don't actually care about gaming news. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in my own social circle that actually keeps track of this stuff.

If people weren't curious about games, what would they be doing here in the first place?

Posted 11 months ago #
AHA-Lambda
Member

But it's just like Steph said, more people are obviously interested in the big blockbuster games and obviously aren't in the indie scene, so it's not wroth the time and effort that the staff need to put in.

VG247 is primarily an enthusiast games news site that covers the AAA side of the industry. As such if you really want to follow the indie and/or mobile side then other websites probably should be your port of call. I think that those are the breaks really =/

Posted 11 months ago #
DSB
Member

I just think that's a pretty weak reason not to do it. An optional survey, and a vague notion, based on what is commercially in demand.

What about journalism, general interest, and basic curiosity?

Ignoring it doesn't strike me as very enthusiastic by any means.

Posted 11 months ago #
Ireland Michael
Moderator

I think you're missing a crucial point DSB. All the people who work here clearly have a love for gaming, and I can say that pretty assuredly having been friends with some of them for some time.

But it's also a business. Pat would not be doing this if it didn't make him money.

The sites focus is on the here and now, and primarily on news, and it's the kind of focusing that people asked for. Getting information to people as quickly as possible., all the time. The indie scene doesn't really fit into that kind of focus. There is already way too much to cover in the mainstream.

Posted 11 months ago #
DSB
Member

That isn't lost on me. I get it, and I really wouldn't want to belittle any of the guys on VG247. I think they do a stellar job with few means, and I think the level of reporting is a lot better here than anywhere else. That's not ever in question.

But the argument that there's too much going on is a bit of a tough sell when you also have quite a few filler stories in there.

If that's a compromise they have to make to keep up, then I think that's a shame.

A problem that lot of newspapers have had over the recent years, is that they've been so hellbent on keeping their subscribers, they haven't bothered to expand their journalism. Instead they've been narrowing it down, and as people inevitably sifted away, they were too in tune with those rigidly defined groups to attract anyone else.

I have a hard time buying the notion that "this is just how it is". Business is not about clamping down on a small piece of territory and hoping for the best, it's also about realizing where you can get more.

Posted 11 months ago #
Giskard
Member

@DSB

As I've not seen any indie coverage on pretty much any site, there's not that large a market to attract, mate.

Posted 11 months ago #
DSB
Member

I think your methodology needs some work. Kotaku, Destructoid, Joystiq and RPS run lots of dedicated articles on indies, and not just the ones with publisher backing.

It's not as if indie is a fringe thing. It's on consoles, it's on PC, it makes up a huge part of the mobile market. It's on the front pages of Steam, the appstores and Xbox Live. One guy with an idea can outsell an entire corporation putting up major investments and superior production values.

On PC, Steam is obviously playing a major role in supporting them, and on consoles Microsoft and Sony are obviously also scouting out the scene. The notion that journalists covering gaming wouldn't, seems like folly to me.

Even if you're being cynical, journalistically I don't think it's a good idea to take yourself out of the running to cover things like the next Minecraft, or the next Popcap.

You could potentially be instrumental in bringing them to the public.

In music journalism for example (or really journalism in general) that stuff is like the holy grail. You always want to be able to tell people about the next big thing, before it's actually a big thing.

Posted 11 months ago #
Ireland Michael
Moderator

They do cover it, when they consider it relevant.

Posted 11 months ago #
DSB
Member

Well, I'll have to throw a jab at that: They do cover it, when publishers consider it relevant.

Posted 11 months ago #
Ireland Michael
Moderator

I really don't know where you get that idea from. Companies are not sitting around handing out news stories to Pat and Steph and crew to cover. The sales posts they make are not some sort of pre-mandated stuff. People like knowing about it - I for one don't consider it filler at all.

Surely Qt3 tickles your indie clitoris enough already? This is predominantly a news site, not a "let's substantially at game caught my attention this week" blog.

Even then, they *do* have indie stuff every so often. Brenna's article about the online game "Glitch" a while back managed to get me personally interested in th title, just as one example.

Posted 11 months ago #
DSB
Member

QT3 doesn't cover indies as much as any of the others I mentioned, and in my experience Tom Chick doesn't go easy on them either.

Ultimately it's a question of the merits of the story. Do you really need to listen to a developer from the assembly line spouting some hot air, that he was spoonfed by PR? Or even worse, an executive coming up with yet another reason why the WIIPS360 is the greatest console on the planet.

It may trigger another 150 comments from excited fanboys, but the news value of that stuff is practically zero.

Again I'm not saying there haven't been bright spots when it comes to the indie coverage, I'm saying that they've sadly been just that. Covering something like Der Unbekannte Krieg is great. So why not do another?

All stories can't be golden, that's absolutely understandable, and VG247 does an amazing piece of work in a press corps, that you can rarely say the same thing about. But I don't see how there isn't possibly any sort of room for improvement.

Posted 11 months ago #
OlderGamer
Moderator

"I don't get why VG247 doesn't do more to cover the scene. There is a ton of games out there who deserve as much attention as any AAA game."

+one more

Posted 11 months ago #
GwynbleiddiuM
Member

Well, DSB, you could start covering indies here (I mean you do), I always read your forum posts about kickstarters and indies. I'm sure a lot of people who are interested in indies also follow the things you put here. I don't blame VG247 for lack of indie coverage to me it feels the majority of readers here don't bother themselves with indie news they're interested in triple As and MS or Sony, compared to those we're a small number in minority and VG247 folks are doing enough efforts to even keep us happy. But all in all I do like more indie coverage.

Posted 11 months ago #
DSB
Member

I appreciate it, but for me there's a difference between doing something on a grass roots level, and doing it professionally.

I guess it is pretty lame to spend so much "hobby" time on games and not actually try to write about it professionally, but ultimately I think it's too much work for too little pay. And I'm not sure a lot of editors in the games press actually want strong opinions.

I have played around with the idea, but then I do that with a million things. I think Quarter to Three got it right by making a blog format that's edited by one guy, but invites everyone else to write for it too. By the gamer and for the gamer, and free of any commercial stuff. Journalism that follows the format of a conversation between gamers.

Of course it would have to be all people with strong opinions or interesting things to say, so I think something like "X-COMmunicated" would be a great name :P

But again that's just one daydream in a million daydreams. I'm also going to open a restaurant, start doing gonzo journalism, write a book, do a screenplay, become a certified gunsmith and get into music promotion. So maybe next week.

Posted 11 months ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.