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Scared for Nintendo

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Started 11 months ago by Yoshi
Latest reply from fearmonkey

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Yoshi
Member

Is anyone else kinda scared for Nintendo with this new gen right around the corner and with them only seeming to catch up to the current gen with WiiU.

I was watching the GT Bonus Round talking about the e3's and they did bring up some worries. It's like, what's the chances that Nintendo will strike gold twice? And if they don't, it's very likely they could completely fall flat and break down as a company :/
Nintendo's never been much for gfx etc but with the way gaming is going they're seriously gunna need to pull something amazing out of their ass XD

Is anyone else worried for them?

I would really hate to see them disappear from gaming.

Posted 11 months ago #
ManuOtaku
Member

I dont think they will disappear, and i think they want to do the same things that worked with the Wii, low price point even if the tech is dated, which in my eyes in the Wii case it wasnt, becuase the HDTV adoption rate is even now passing aprox. the 60% of the market, back in the day when the wii launched was very poor, and it keep that way till late 2010, this is in reality when it did start picking up steam, and thats one of the reasons besides the low price point, for the wii success in my humble opinion.

Now the situation is the same, it will have a very key price point factor, it will have 1080p with 60 FPS, and with that i think they will do fine, they have a great controller once again like the with wii, and the most important, nintendo was leader again, if you look in the past the N64 did had a medium term success after the great NES and SNES era, therefore i think the WiiU will do just fine, at least just fine enough for keeping them in the business and thats all i want really, the WiiU is not the N64, therefore i think it will fare better; maybe they can or will strike gold once again, like you put , that will be the best thing, but it will be hard because sony and micrsoft wont do the same miscues once again, it will be closer the next gen more closer than this one IMHO.

Posted 11 months ago #
OrbitMonkey
Member

No. Their roadshow's start soon and if they demonstrate effectively the benefits of the WiiU, that will win the hearts and minds of the people.

Then the advertising bombardment will commence with cheesy celebs gurning over their tablets, this too will draw the masses.

Plus with the promised online stuff, every pedo is gonna have to have one. Dating just got easy ;-)

Posted 11 months ago #
DrDamn
Member

@ManuOtaku
Technically the 360 and PS3 can do 1080p and 60fps, but a lot of games don't. If the WiiU is graphically similar to them then it's not going to do it so well either - particularly if it has to stream output to one or more controllers too.

I think they have made more than a few mistakes here. Potentially fundamental design mistakes. This is admittedly based on some conjecture of what they've shown and other info - but that's all we have as they haven't confirmed a lot of things.

Graphically with the Wii it was sufficient because it helped with the cost and because they weren't competing so directly with Sony and MS. Here they are making a point of saying here are all the third party titles too. I think they missed a trick by not putting a little more into the GPU so they could have been able to say here is the current best version of the third party titles.

What's more worrying is that it was clear to everyone when the Wii was shown that they had hit on something special. Here they don't seem to have a clear idea themselves of what the extra screen adds - it's almost like they know it should be great, but they aren't quite sure how yet. I kind of believe too - it could be fantastic but no one has really shown anything game changing yet.

I'm not discounting them, and even if it never pans out like the Wii they can survive quite happily on the faithful by producing what they do well. There is a worry there though.

Posted 11 months ago #
DSB
Member

I think they could potentially tank, or drop consoles for publishing like SEGA. That's certainly what the market is betting on right now.

Nintendo hasn't been a very good business for a long time now, and while I'm sure the Wii U is going to be a good console, I think Nintendo will need more than that to turn things around.

I don't know why console manufacturers are so clueless, but there does seem to be little to no ambition or will to progress these days.

Posted 11 months ago #
Deacon
Member

While there's nothing that excites me about WiiU, I'm not scared for Nintendo. Not just yet.

Their marketing alone will ensure WiiU sells a hefty amount year 1. The average dumb fuck consumer LOVES those adverts with their favourite 'celebrity' playing along with other fellow 'celebrities'. Showing the whole family involved and effectively selling the idea that it's not just 'a HD Wii', but a new innovative way of gaming.

We all know the obscene power of marketing. So no, I don't think we need to worry about Nintendo. Not from a sales point of view.

From a traditional gamer's point of view? Yeah. I'm worried.
Worried that they're not next gen enough to ensure they GET the multi-plat 3rd party titles on their system going forward. Worried that their USP will be underplayed or tacked-on at the last minute much like Kinect is now doing for voice commands. Worried that those invested in their Trophy/Achievements aren't going to want to give up their familiar online service and profile for whatever online service Nintendo launch.

Posted 11 months ago #
G1GAHURTZ
Member

I'm not worried for them at all.

I don't see any reason to buy their products any more, though.

Posted 11 months ago #
ManuOtaku
Member

Deacon iam a traditional gamers, and iam not worried, because i get nintendo consoles just for nintendo tittles, and if i look back in retrospective this is the same since N64 days, therefore if they have support from third party is a plus, because it will entice more gamers, but for me is not that key, unless is something like the the new aliens marines game, that use the controller in a neat way, like a motion tracker device, this is something i will not get on the other consoles, therefore i will pick this third party game on WiiU, and all the third party games that support this type of especial feature on WiiU, the rest i will get it on the other consoles, thats for sure, but like i said iam not worried, because i think they will strike twice.

Posted 11 months ago #
OlderGamer
Moderator

I think it is too early to be able to tell.

I think a lot of "core" fans(and that includes gamewebsites and their staff)have an unfair bias against Nintendo. I think it boils down to identifying with the games people play, and then feeling threatened by Nintendo because they don't promote the same types of gaming experiences. Because of that Bias, I think a lot of "stories" and critics are floating around predicting Nintendo doom.

But if you think back to Wii, the same type of things happened. Hell, people have been predicting Nintendos fall for a couple of generations now.

If your asking if Nintendo will compete with the Sony and MS systems, if Ninetdno will out "Microsoft" them, if Nintendo is going to be the new home for OMP shooter fans, if Nintendo will champion the core...then the answer is likly no. But they didn't do any of those things with Wii, and they thrived.

Many folks have the misconception that PS360 style systems and game offerings are the only things that people want to own or play. That is just plan wrong. Infact, if MS/Sony release the same franchises on new hardware at expensive price points, they may actualy contribute to increased WiiU sales.

I think there will always be a market for Nintendo and their games.

But, as for the WiiU selling tons of units and matching the Wii...I think that will be hard to do. I think it really comes down to price point. If the system is 149usd to 199usd it will move fast off of shelves and be hard to keep in stock. If the system is priced above 299usd it will be hard to move.

And before you condem Nintendo on price alone, think about how much the new systems from MS and Sony will cost? I don't care how good those systems are, if they are priced 600usd and up, they won't sell either.

I think it all hinges on price point. For all of the up and coming new systems. Games too, they better start all bringing new and fun games, but if the prices are too high none of them will sell.

So best to take a sit and wait to see aproach. Time will tell all.

Posted 11 months ago #
Joe Musashi
Member

Scared? No.
Concerned? No.

Every business fends for itself.

Feeling emotion for a corporation is an absurd notion. Nintendo won't benefit from people's emotions. They'll benefit from their money.

JM

Posted 11 months ago #
OrbitMonkey
Member

^ Says the huge Sony fanboy :-P

*hides I luv Sony hat*

Posted 11 months ago #
DSB
Member

The thing to consider is how much money they're losing at the moment OG. Investors don't have a bias, unless the supposed anti-Nintendo conspiracy includes them as well.

It's not like they're very business savvy. They never lower their prices on games, and it takes them a long while to do it for equipment. Which means that people will just buy them used.

That's not a smart way to sell your stuff.

If the Wii hadn't sold as well as it did, they would be shit out of luck with third parties as well.

Posted 11 months ago #
ManuOtaku
Member

DSB"They never lower their prices on games"
The thing is in my eyes they dont need to, all their core ips sells well within time, look at mario kart wii, for example even with a price that is equal to recently newer games, it keeps selling good numbers, therefore why lower the price, that it is a bad business call in my book

"and it takes them a long while to do it for equipment"
With the 3ds they act pretty quick, and even they are reducing the bonusses to their employees, they took quick and drastic meassures when they need it, i think they are changing a bit.

And for a business stand point of view, the wii was a very risky move, even more so the DS, therefore i think they can take some chances in the future too, at least in that regard they are not the nintendo of the N64 Era.

Posted 11 months ago #
DSB
Member

Good points Manu, but if that's the case, then why aren't they making any money?

I agree that the Wii was a great move in terms of design, but I don't think the business model for it is.

Posted 11 months ago #
ManuOtaku
Member

I think is becuase they are losing money on the 3DS and in the WiiU development, we need to wait next year in order to tell if they are in trouble or not, like i said i hope they keep in the hardware business just for their software, i dont want to see them become the new SEGA, it is a sad situation with the SEGA franchises, it was the worst thing it could happen to them, and will also be for nintendo, you crearly see that with this move, instead of having the SEGA core franchises a rise up in quality and tittles available per system, we are seeing instead a decline, and this will also happen to nintendo, i dont think a pikmin or mario game would sell that well on other consoles, therefore in the end that will be the final nail in the coffin for nintendo, IMHO.

Posted 11 months ago #
Joe Musashi
Member

"And for a business stand point of view, the wii was a very risky move"

No. A fantastical marketing pitch to sell last-gen technology was not risky, it was simply well executed. As a business move, it was pretty much the definition of playing it safe.

As for the 3DS price cut, that wasn't a planned move. And it has been the very notable exception for Nintendo. It's a very bad example to use to suggest a trend. Cutting BONUSES is not lowering costs, it is lowering the amount of BONUS. Again a singularly bad example that doesn't actually prove the point trying to be proved.

JM

Posted 11 months ago #
ManuOtaku
Member

"No. A fantastical marketing pitch to sell last-gen technology was not risky, it was simply well executed. As a business move, it was pretty much the definition of playing it safe"

Even though it wasnt the safetest bet wasnt it?, i meant it was risky because it was based on motion controlls both the DS and Wii, something that was unproven and untaped to that point in time, even if it was a low technology it was a risky move, they would have lost a lot of money and investors support if it wasnt for the success they did had with them, that would meant probably the worst case scenario for them becuase they always had the hanheld market to support the console market, not this time thats the reason for the risky tag on it.

"As for the 3DS price cut, that wasn't a planned move. And it has been the very notable exception for Nintendo. It's a very bad example to use to suggest a trend. Cutting BONUSES is not lowering costs, it is lowering the amount of BONUS. Again a singularly bad example that doesn't actually prove the point trying to be proved".

I meant not for the lowering costs, but for the quick and drastic thing about that, especially when the message to outer sources indicates that you are having trouble, is not as easy as it sounds, and for that they handle the things differently than the old nintendo, not saying is good, bad, or risky, is just this different, this isnt nintendo style of doing things, are least the old nintendo IMHO.

Posted 11 months ago #
OlderGamer
Moderator

Pretty much what Manu said, DSB.

But I never said there is a conspericy against Nintendo. I just think that a lot of vocal people in the game media(and forum goers) that don't like Nintendo are once again calling for their demise. Its nothing new.

It is just a form of fanboyism. They don't like it, they don't play it, there fore "it is time for Nintendo to fold and go away". Same type of thing happens to all of the platforms. In terms of anti-fanboys for a lack of a better word. But it is really thick on sites like this one with people that hate Nintendo. That is what I was saying.

You must have missed the part where I said I think it is too early to be able to tell for sure what will happen yet. Or where I said I think WiiU sales could struggle. I think it comes down to price price price. I don't think a bunch of core gamers stalking internet sites calling for Nintendos death will have an impact, they didn't last gen either.

Posted 11 months ago #
DSB
Member

That is pretty much the definition of a conspiracy, OG. I don't see how it isn't perfectly reasonable to ask those questions.

Every time they show up at a convention, their stock price plummets.

@Manu To be fair, Team Sonic were doing poorly long before SEGA crashed.

The Wii isn't selling a lot, and because they pretty much ignored online, they aren't able to rake in the same kind of money that their competitors are at the moment.

Their huge installbase is only worth a damn when they put out a new Mario.

Nintendo titles do sell a lot, but the third party ones don't. I think that's critical. A big part of owning hardware is selling licenses, Nintendo invented that model.

But when your license means you move maybe 1.2 million copies of a new game, it's not very attractive.

Certainly Sony and Microsoft can charge a lot more for theirs, along with the online.

Posted 11 months ago #
ManuOtaku
Member

I agree DSB, although lets see how they handle the online with the WiiU i dont expect the same level as the others, but i hope is decent enough.

p.s Yoshi you should insert the picture of the luigis mansion post, that was recently posted, it will fit tremendously here

Posted 11 months ago #
OlderGamer
Moderator

Take a look at the new video grab from WiiU Nintendo Land DSB, I know a lot on here would disagree with me. But I would rather play that then replay almost anything I can name on PS3 or Xb360. Those Nintendo Land games look creative and fun.

The reason I don't call it a conspricy DSB, is because people aren't collectivly ploting out a course of action. I think it is just human nature to be like that. And.

By in large, compared to MS/Sony fans, Nintendo fans don't visit online gamesite and forums. And I think that there is a large, very large nonvocal element to the equation. If all one listened to was online forums and media/game experts(also often writting for online game publications), that is one of the problems with our corner of the gaming world, it doesn't account for everyone. But clearly if all one did was visit a site like this one, they could get the idea that Nintendo was about to crash and burn. Infact said person might even wonder how the hell Nintendo sold any Wiis at all, let alone lead in both hardware and software sales this current generation.

In a nut shell that is what I was saying. I am not ready to write Nintendo or WiiU off yet. But I am also not willing to proclaim sucsess either. Time will tell. As for investers, what the hell do they know. Look around at the global economic climate. If they knew where to put their(often our) money, things would prolly be a lot better then they are know. A bunch of suits with money don't game experts make. And even they can't predict the future.

Posted 11 months ago #
DrDamn
Member

@OG
In terms of forums etc, yeah I tend to agree with you. In terms of the gaming press? No. The general gaming press love Nintendo for their core IP titles. To me the bias is the other way, scared to criticise the latest Zelda, Mario etc. It's just not done in any substantial way.

Posted 11 months ago #
ManuOtaku
Member

OG Patcher does, i mean predict the future, but i think is a parallel universe or world in most cases, if you believe in that sort of things of course

Posted 11 months ago #
ManuOtaku
Member

Drdamn You are not visiting 1UP latetly arent you?

Posted 11 months ago #
DrDamn
Member

@Manu
Nah I tend to avoid the US based sites. In fact I visit here and occasionally EG - don't bother much with EG reviews any more though.

Posted 11 months ago #
ManuOtaku
Member

Hear you and i figure that much, because they are being harsh with the zelda tittles latetly, but ok it doesnt matter anyway, you dont miss much.

Posted 11 months ago #
DrDamn
Member

For example some very positive write-ups of Project P-100 and ZombiU on EG today.

Posted 11 months ago #
Da Man
Member

Amazing how people believe 'marketing' is a process of lying about your product and advertising it (when advertising is pretty much another area but anyway)..

Oh well, the 'average dumbfuck' doesn't really care anyway.. I bet those just play for the lulz not going into massively hardcore analysis of computer toys.

Posted 11 months ago #
DSB
Member

I'm an unashamed CoD player OG, you don't have to tell me about "Kill the King" complexes, and I agree that that was in full effect even before things started heading south for Nintendo. I hated the Wii too, right up until I played one.

But the fact is that Nintendo are heading south, and they do need to turn it around before it gets serious.

I'm not saying the Wii is a bad console, I'm not saying the games are bad. I've bought two as presents for my nephew, and my wife, and I've enjoyed it a lot. Even if I don't like the idea of paying a lot for peripherals, and never lowering the price on games after release.

I'm not writing them off either, but I think it's pretty clear that Wii U has all the makings of a make-or-break console, and this time it doesn't have the element of surprise.

They need to bring in the third parties (and keep them for as long as the console is around) they need to compete on online services, and they need to make a console that's still fun to play.

That's no small task, man.

Posted 11 months ago #
fearmonkey
Member

@oldergamer "Nintendo fans don't visit online gamesite and forums"

I don't know about that, on IGN, Joystiq, and other sites anything anti-nintendo gets down voted pretty quicky.:)

I used to be a huge Nintendo fan from the NES to the SNES, I didn't get a N64 as I didn't care for the controller and it's cartridges. I didn't get a Gamecube as I didn't like it's design and the controller. I didn't get a Wii as I wanted HD graphics and I don't care about motion controlls.

That said, I was really really hoping that Nintendo would give me a reason to desire a Wii-u this E3 and I didn't get that. Pikimin looked good, Zombi-u looked good, but everything else was boring. I'm not expecting Xbox360/PS3 games on the Wii-u, I was expecting an awesome HD Zelda or Mario 3D title, and they didn't deliver that. I have never understood why Nintendo hasn't released a true Mario 64 sequel, that is a major system seller.

Posted 11 months ago #

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