What next for the Military FPS?

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What next for the Military FPS?

(31 posts)

Started 1 year ago by OrbitMonkey
Latest reply from mojo

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OrbitMonkey
Member

Ok lets just start by saying that the two big guns this year are both liked by a fanbase in the millions respectively. I do not give a shit which one you think Is ascetically more appealing. If you want to start some dick waving contest over which is the best, go elsewhere.

Personally I find the two almost indistinguishable, especially on TDM & I've no doubt next years MoH will be a virtual clone...

Don't get me wrong i'm gonna prestige the fuck outta one & I know theirs guys who won't sleep till their rank 45 in the other... but then what?

Maybe its fatigue on my part, but these games feel like the beginning of the end for this particular genre of FPS :(

Posted 1 year ago #
DSB
Member

Maybe I'm missing something, but soldiers (usually found in militaries) have a lot of guns. Shooters like to feature guns, possibly even a lot of them. As such, I don't see how they're ever leaving the FPS.

It has been a while since we've had a King Pin (http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/kingpin_life_of_crime ) come along, but ultimately what matters is the kick you get from what you play.

The FPS is the most "loathed" genre in the world mainly because of the internet. People feel like they've seen it all in 10 years, but really it's just the industry repeating itself. Look at what happened after Wolfenstein. There were more clones than I care to keep track of, and some of them were quite great.

Then Doom II comes along and suddenly you're at the next step, and then you got your Quakes and your Unreals, your Half-Lifes, and today we've got our CoDs and our Battlefields, or post-apocalyptic wasteland shooter X. They're gonna be there until something better comes along.

But I don't think the military is going to make an exit from videogames any time soon. They have guns and they do stuff with them, and that's good gaming.

What about space marines, while we're at it? How many Gears of Halo: Fall of Killzone do you really need?

Posted 1 year ago #
OlderGamer
Moderator

I am playing my fav warthemed FPS right now. I am playing almost everyday, 2-5 hours each day. I play with my brother inlaw, sometimes my oldest son, and sometimes people in my friends list. I am getting a bit bored.

Its less the game and more the competition. As time goes on the average skill of players that have not yet left for something else to play goes up. And up. And way up. I still have good rounds, sometimes great ones. I still get MVP ribbons once in awhile. Mostly, however, I end up in the bottum half of the scoreboard. I am last more often then first(this is esp so if I step outside of my best class). Getting killed over and over losses its fun facter after awhile.

This is how it goes for me at this point. So my take on this question is what if anything can be done about that? Infact across most games in the online space. Ever play a fighter online? I just bought Ultimate MvC3. I am like 1-7, then I stopped playing online. Not going back there anytime soon. How does a developer keep the entire fan base playing? How can they stop elite players from chasing off average players?

There are still alot of unlocks left in my military fps for me to get. I am well into service stars for my fav guns, gadgets and class. I am a Tank Master. But I can unlock a buttload of stuff in other classes if I can stick with it long enough to play those classes.

This an issue for anyone else?

I put it here in this thread because I thin it fits. I think the longevity of such games hinges on it. Sure the top teir players will keep playing CoD and BF, but how many times will the average and even less then average player keep coming back to the same type of game year after year?

So long as it is fun, they will come. But at this point my game is lossing alot of the fun it had at launch. Food for thought.

Posted 1 year ago #
Erthazus
Member

Whats Next?

Bohemia's Interactive "ArmA 3".
Nuff said.

Stupid topic and stupid question to be honest. There is enough innovation for the modern military from DICE's view or Bohemia interactive.

Bohemia Interactive will deliver it next year in summer and fans can't wait because it's the best "Military simulation, tactical shooter" with big environments and with great new engine aka Real Virtuality 4 without your console corridors, stupid AI and clusterfuck matches.

Where you can also create your own missions how you want and where you want on the island with cutscenes, vehicles, destruction and etc.

Posted 1 year ago #
Lounds
Member

If a shooter is made right you don't need any of this unlock shit and levels to keep handed playing, games like counter strike and UT have proved this, tbh game developers are taking the sport and skill away from shooters.

Posted 1 year ago #
Erthazus
Member

^
I agree with this completely.

Unlocks is a stupid and retarded idea for fratboys.

If there was an option to turn off these ribbons and unlocks i would be the first one to turn them off right now.

Actually Gears Of War 3 from Epic Games still support the same old formula and it works.

Posted 1 year ago #
Da Man
Member

^Comment by a person who claimed they went twice through BC2 to reach the highest rank. Imagining things again I see.

Gears of War has skin unlocks.

Actually, you're a zealous moron.

The issue isn't unlocks, it's the ranks being based on amount of time you grind and progressively less emphasis on ranked matches.

Posted 1 year ago #
OrbitMonkey
Member

@DSB, Well i guess I meant what's next for BF/MW/MoH. Obviously MW has had only cosmetic changes & I see this final chapter being the last for me (sad panda). It was the main reason I got BF3, to try something *innovative*.

And all I got was last years MoH, with a few more guns, lmg's given to a unnecessary class, specialists renamed engineers & a extra game mode... wow, my cup runneth over.

I have no doubt MoH2 will follow suit, as it obvious EA are going Into annual churn out mode to beat down Activision. So for the next couple of years the big triple AAA military shooters are going to become.... stale?

Fuck it, maybe Respawn/Bungie will launch something that feels fresh.

Posted 1 year ago #
Lounds
Member

@DaMan
If BF games just gave you all the guns it would be a lot more balanced.
Actually I think military online shooters should have weapons training where you have to go on to a range and become a marksman before you can use a 50.cal sniper lol.

Posted 1 year ago #
Erthazus
Member

@DaMan, Sorry moron, but my 2 accounts have nothing to do with unlocks. the reason behind is:
1 acc for my personal use
2 acc for the clan matches only.

Same thing with Battlefield 3. I use two accounts like my clan mates. So you are again, can wave your cock somewhere else with false assumptions.

also, Gears Of War 3 have only SKIN unlocks which is the only thing that is from UT 2004 and this is how it should be. Skins and other shit that have nothing to do with gameplay is the best thing.

@OrbitMonkey, "So for the next couple of years the big triple AAA military shooters are going to become.... stale?"

ArmA 3. Hello world!

Posted 1 year ago #
Da Man
Member

Yeah, yeah you also have a girlfriend, a driving license, that youtube account isn't yours, you 're a perfectly normal person. You just keep the faith, comrade.

Thank you for proving my point, believer. Whether you, sin polka agree with this or not unlocking new stuff that way encourages shallow grinding and AFKers. Anything that you get for personal use by grinding in the game negatively affects teamwork and promotes non competitive, lone wolf behaviour. Again, it's not the unlockables it's the way you acquire them.

While we 're at it, Horde mode is another pathetically pointless and casual friendly grindfest they 've introduced.

For someone with a mentality of a 12 years old precisely 'waving cock' (and poorly at that), and continously ruinjng internet boards with their idiotic made up gibberish you continue to rise the standard. Really, Erthazus, you're such an idiot it's unbelievable. You hardly convince me otherwise by continuously screaming 'No you are'.

Also, you a moron.

Also, you fail at speech.

Posted 1 year ago #
DSB
Member

@OrbitMonkey

OH! My B.

I think you're absolutely right though. I think the comment I levelled at most news pieces going into BF3 and MW3 was "Monkey see, monkey do".

Basically all they're doing at this point is trading features with one another.

But I think that if history is anything to go by, which it usually is, then this all "ends" once an innovative developer comes along and completely redefines the genre within a new setting. And by ends I mean becomes less popular, because it's never going to go away.

Until that happens, Battlefield and CoD are just going to be doing things the way they've always been doing them. I don't see a lot of innovation on either end, just different takes on very familiar concepts.

I think the obvious way to go for a next generation FPS would be "less corridors, more AI" on the singleplayer. We've pretty much gone as far as we can go with lavish setpieces and target dummies. I reckon it's time to take it in the opposite direction.

In terms of multiplayer I think it's going to be hard to distinguish a new game. The Counter-Strike formula reigns supreme, but co-op does still seem to be in its infancy.

Posted 1 year ago #
OlderGamer
Moderator

Unlocks and leveling are the best "inovations" in modern shooters imo. A game feels absolutly flat and empty w/o something to achieve. I hate to beat a dead horse here, but if your like me and an average player at best, the unlocks can be the driving force behind the disre to keep playing.

In BF3, lets say the top player scores a 7500pnt round. And I bag a 2000pnt round. I did my best, and am happy with that because I know its 2000pnts(plus ribbons) towards my next gun/gadget/vehicle upgrade/or rank. I can say "well ok so I won't be gunning for MVP, but 'lest I am earning unlocks". It is a way of making a player feel like they are progressing in th egame. Plus it makes the game feel more personial and customizable.

I can safely say w/o unlocks, I doubt I would play.

Maybe I am not hardcore like some, but the game needs casual/nonhardcore players just as much(maybe more because of their numbers) as they need the elite players.

And that is my overall question here to begin with. What if anything can or should be done to keep average players playing the game while getting spanked badly by a reletivly few number of elite players?

I think in that field of thinking, unlocks are freaken huge. And I expect them to get bigger. I keep dreaming of A fps game that plays like World of warcrafts Battlegrounds for a console. All run and gun, but with customizable chars that earn xp for leveling up. Skill points for skill trees. Money for gear/equipment. Toss in 10-12 classes to pick from, vary the skill trees in each one, and you could sell me map packs/expansions to that game till the cows came home - and I don't even have cows!

Posted 1 year ago #
Erthazus
Member

@Daman, "You hardly convince me otherwise"

Sorry, but i'm not trying to convince you otherwise. It's just your wild imagination because the one who start replying to me first is always you. Sorry, but "sin polka" first of all sounds incrorrectly. (Because rednecks in their villages don't know shit anyway). Second, i can't "ruinjng" internet boards. I can ruin them :D but i guess you was enraged and tried to use the maximum of your ability to insult me in TEH internetz. Sorry, next time try harder. Everytime you try something you fail to deliver as always.

Fourth, "Horde mode is another pathetically pointless and casual friendly grindfest they 've introduced."

Well, as always you are retard that know nothing. They didn't introduced Horde Mode in Gears Of War 3. That mode was introduced first of all in Unreal Tournament 2004 (that mode was with different name aka "Invasion"). Also, that mode was first introduced in Halo 3:ODST that is called "firefight Mode" which is a total rip off from UT2004 mode and Geow 2 Horde Mode. So, you basically called that mode a piece of trash right now.
Gears Of War 3 evolved that mode and it's fantastic for people that "like" to play in that mode.

but we all know that you jerk off to Halo, so i think your next sentence will be about how "every mode" is shit compared to your famous game about Gay Space Marines :D

"Anything that you get for personal use by grinding in the game negatively affects teamwork and promotes non competitive, lone wolf behaviour. "

if you are playing alone and i'm against unlocks if you don't know. I said that in my second post. Also, teamplay does not affect if you play with clans on the dedicated servers. But you don't know that anyway. Especially if you play without "ranked system" with it's own rules.

@OlderGamer, It's not about hardcore gaming or casual gaming. In my opinion unlocks is a huge grindfest and even if you play with a clan these ribbons and etc. just too huge for the screen and you can't get all the weapons.

the best types of achievements or ribbons are in UT or Quake 3. You get achievements in the game like: "Unstoppable" or "Ultra Kill" and thats i think is enough.

It's the gameplay that is important. Devs today try too much focusing on these awards and unlocks, while gameplay is stale.

Gameplay First, ribbons and unlocks must be the last thing. I'm sure for 100% that you play Battlefield 3 because you like playing it.

People enjoyed playing Battlefield 1942 or 2 in the past without them too you know?

Posted 1 year ago #
OlderGamer
Moderator

"People enjoyed playing Battlefield 1942 or 2 in the past without them too you know?"

Yes and no. In the days those games where new they were PC only. And the PC crowd then, wasn't even as large as it is today. The games have just gotten bigger. In large part to more casual gamers stepping in and playing those(and other games).

And I don't mean casual as in the sense of yahoo games or Move/Kinect/Wii type stuff. I just mean gamers that may have once had a passing interest in games like BF, are now enjoying them. I think of those people as average gamers. Like myself. I won't sink 250 hours into a BF game, but I preordered it, and have been enjoying the experience.

I can also 100% gaurentee that w/o unlocks and my xb360 I wouldn't even own the game. I never bought Battlefield 2 or BF 1942. When I play BF3, I play it while in party chat on LIVE. And I play that one more round before bed in order to gain xp for my nextrank/unlock.

Your right the gameplay is enjoyable. But at this point it isn't an either or situation. We can have a hefty unlock/progression system and still have great gameplay.

I am just saying, I feel unlocks add to the experience. And I would like to see much more in this area going forward. even add some more RPG style to it. Give me accurcy boost(not perks) but give me a slider or % that increases as I rank up with a single gun. Like the current service stars, but have that reflected in my guns performance.

I don't see it as grinding, just getting better and being rewarded for playing. So long as nothing becomes a game nerfin(perk) I am happy with it.

Last thought there is the gun unlocks - I don't know if I can get all of the guns unlocked yet. I haven't stoped trying. But one thing I can tell you is that at this point, i don't see the guns as being that different from each other. TBH many of them sort of blend into each other. I use a shotgun, I know that much. But I couldn't tell you if so and so is using a g2s41a or whatever. I just want scopes, bipods, faster loading, and vehicle upgrades. They could give me a nerf 2000, i wouldn't care as long as I could kill something with it and unlock upgrades for it. And I guess what i am saying is that if I can't unlock a gun or two - its no big deal imo. The game has tons to pick from already.

Posted 1 year ago #
DSB
Member

I agree OG.

Some people will always try to distinguish themselves for just how much minimalism they can take, but ultimately levelling and scoring adds spectacle to those games, and people want to be excited when they play.

Fair enough if some people can stand to play ascetic shooters with nothing to really keep it interesting beyond the core gameplay, but personally I expect more.

I think CoD got it right in terms of pacing and balancing though. I don't mind unlocking stuff in BF3 so much, but the pacing is way off for my taste. I don't want a never ending story, I want the spectacle, some carefully tooled weapons and the option to go showboating by resetting everything and gaining an emblem.

As with most things, BF3 has gotten better on that as well, but it's still not quite there in my opinion. The fact that you have to dedicate yourself to grinding a specific class for a specific weapon makes it feel a lot like... grinding.

Posted 1 year ago #
G1GAHURTZ
Member

I don't care about unlocks. That's why I have no problem prestiging. For me, the biggest drive to put hours into a game is a simple leaderboard.

With CoD4, I would be anxious if I was away from my 360 for more than a day, because I knew I was 'slipping' down the rankings. I was going for kills, and at one stage, I was top 30k out of about 8 million iirc (pretty sure it was top 20k or 30k or somewhere in the middle).

There was that, and trying to get my W/L ratio up to the 4s and 5s of other members of my clan (it's more difficult when you mostly play FFA).

But unlocks/awards/bonuses don't really interest me that much.

Everyone's different though.

As for what's next...

Don't expect anything drastic any time soon. It's almost certian that right now IW are working on 'Modern Warfare: The Story of Captain Price' or whatever, while Sledgehammer work on the MW3 DLC. Meanwhile, Treyarch have been busy working on their 'business as usual' title.

Acti will almost certainly not change anything until the sales drop off, and the sales will almost certainly not drop off until there's an alternative that the CoD millions like more than CoD.

And whatever CoD does, EA will probably make it's studios follow (as long as it's prettier!). And all the rest of the FPS devs, too.

So don't expect anything 'new' any time soon.

At least, not until the next console gen.

Besides, I think I said ages ago that the only thing that can beat CoD are the guys who made it.

Respawn are taking a very long time to build a CoD beater, and with their proven track record, their eagerness to get one over on Kotick personally, combined with EA's myopic desperation to own the number 1 FPS, you've got the formula for something not just new, but revolutionary.

So until their FPS comes out, unless Valve can throw a spanner in the works with HL3, I think it'll be more of the same.

Posted 1 year ago #
Triggerhappy
Member

Personally im sick of 'floating gun' games. Ive been watching that hand eject clips and slap new ones in for over 15 years now. The most boring thing about FPS's is that they all mostly share the same mechanics. At least with 3rd person games theres a bit of variety, they FEEL different. These days I can't play two FPS's in a row, it feels like the same game. I have a friend who has the exact opposite opinion, he loathes TPS's and will only play a game if its in first person (and he skips ALL cut scenes, but thats a different topic).

Posted 1 year ago #
Da Man
Member

Lmao. You sad tryhard zealous moron.

Sorry sorry sorry XD xD xD no you no you no you no you it is not me it is not me...

....
..
You put those poorly spelled poorly structured walls of blah blah blah no you are and then say you aren't trying to convince anyone, then what are you doing? Besides, not only you were the asinine twat coming into here starting to post your poorly spelled ignorant nonsence, but in this case I was just pointing out the usual stupidity and tragic irony of your post in this particular thread.

You say i try hard, then post a wall of poorly paraphrased gibberish you 've learned on this very website.

Seeing as how you continously destroy English in your attempts to say something, it's funny you even mention spelling. Besides if you want to see an 'ы' why don't you fuck off to uniloe govno.ru? I'm sure everyone has a cyrillic keyboard there.

Notice how in your usual moronic bolshevik denial you bring new and new completely unrelated things, unable to follow the argument or refute anything.

Now, you silly sin polka with an ill imagination, were the one who 's making 'assumptions' here. I've never mentioned Firefight preceeding Gears' horde.

In Firefight, Bungie implemented various types of it, ie particularly Sniperfight, where you actually have to take down enemies from afar, while Gears is nothing but a bunch of guys barricading themselves in one spot. But regardless, while heaps of fun (and notice how you called that mode 'shit', not me, I said Horde is a pointless grindfest more so how they were the ones who came up with the waves achievement), anyway like I was saying while fun it's yes indeed casual friendly and ultimately pointless.

As I said, again unlocking things by levelling up promotes selfish palystyle and AFKers. You can't play with the same people all the time, because unlike you they have a life.

Now, Halo3 had two types of matches, clearly divided. the first was called ranked, and the other social. You levelled up according to the amount of wins in ranked one, the moment you lost a game you could go down in ranks. But you in fact 'don't know that', idiot. See? Tragic irony in every paragraph.

Retard and a commie. (As usual). No amount of 'It is not me who is a moron it is you' and/or bashing of Halo negates that. If anything, you come across as a truly mental fella.

And besides, seeing as how Unreal Tournament literally ripped off Marathon's Crazy KIng (that's Domination for you bolsheviks), and followed the vehicular model of Halo, it hardly says anything bad about Bungie incorporating that one into the game.

And, wow, coming up with an idea of you trying to defend against countless waves of enemies coming at you from everywhere. What a crazy genius idea. But then with your kind of IQ it might be..

Also, Latvia is an Estonia rip-off.

Posted 1 year ago #
G1GAHURTZ
Member

Latviaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

LOL!

Posted 1 year ago #
polygem
Member

i am tired of mp shooters...seriously. i even skipped mw3 and bf3. maybe i will pick them up one day but i really feel like i have played them all. they improved for sure and probably are great games, but they just leave me unimpressed...

i really got high hopes for the bungie fpsmmo - probably (hopefully!) not a military shooter project but i think this could turn out to become the shooter game i have been waiting for ...

Posted 1 year ago #
mojo
Member

agree with lounds and erth.
Scrap all those bullshit unlocks.
Its alienating the player from the game.

Industry should get back to making games u play because they are fun to play not to show ur blingbling to irrelevant inet peers.
like cs and ut.
theres still a game to come that prooves to be more fun then cs to me.

infact i find unlocks distracting. i just cant understand why they force me to invest hours amopng hours just to get to a poiont where im able to enjoy the game and all its opportunities to the fullest. i just cant understabnd that..

For a "serious play" option in every game with an MP part!

Posted 1 year ago #
DSB
Member

So if people think that "bling bling" is fun, then they're just categorically wrong, is that the logic here?

I think it's a little pathetic that if you disagree with someone or prefer something else, then they're somehow the mindless ones. Because videogames are clearly capable of turning people into brainwashed zombies, who like things that they really don't.

Essentially people turn into the Daily Mail the second they reach their limit of understanding.

Posted 1 year ago #
HeavyD-Love
Member

What's next for military FPS?

Better graphics, more vehicle/diverse missions in the campaign, and non-linear game play in the campaign.

Posted 1 year ago #
deathgaze
Member

@Erthazus: MW3 has a Tourney gametype that tosses out all advanced perks and killstreak rewards. Would that do?

Posted 1 year ago #
OlderGamer
Moderator

Here is the thing. Well one of them anyways. Some people say that unlocks stink because they make you grind, playing for hours. Well correct me if I am wrong, but won't you be playing for same said hours anyways?

For my point of view, I enjoyed the game more when I first started playing then I do now. I liked the thrill of getting a new gun/iteam and tinkering with it to see what I could do with it. Now I get service stars, and they don't do anything except let people I kill know that I play this gun or that class alot. My dog tags say that I drive a lot of tank and I kill a lot of people with that tank. Its nice, but I miss working for new goodies to tinker with.

I stopped playing BFBC games once I had the all of the unlocks opened up. Sure I came back to em once in awhile. But the everyday, gotta sit and play - just isn't there. Its like playing WoW, once you reach level cap and tweak your gear out, whats left? The actual gameplay is still there, still the same. But the drive to keep playing is greatly reduced. Thats why they have alts. Samething in OMP FPS games. Unlocks drive many many players. And while I have no problem with some people thinking they are over rated or no biggie, I just can't understand how anyone can say they outright hate them.

Power Hint: your going to play the game anyways. Its not grinding, if your going to do that.

I just feel that a lot of people won't play nearly as much. Maybe people would even skip buying the game w/o progression. Would you play WoW if you didn't have to build your toon? And before an elitiest jumps up says "good riddence" I invite them to think about server population, player skill variation, be it BF or CoD the games need as many people as possible with a wide range of skills. Its healthy for the game. Not only the copy your currently enjoying, but to ensure that future copies are made. Lots of people buying/playing means franchise keeps trucking.

unlocks aren't going anywhere. oh and stop about CS. I mean really. At this point its nearly freeware. Not a 60usd yearly installment, plus DLC. Its a different ballgame altogether. Not to mention CS is modded to within an inch of its life. Its not even the same game experience it was when it launched after said mods. And when was the last time it sold 30million copies? Comparing CS to CoD is like comparing Runescape to WoW.

Posted 1 year ago #
DSB
Member

To me whether it's grinding or just gratifying depends entirely on the balance between what you have, and what you're striving for.

I never played 1942, but since Battlefield 2, the rule in Battlefield has been that the unlocks are superior to the general weapons.

If you don't get the G36C in BF2, you're going to be killed by the G36C until you do. If you don't get the AN94 in BC2, you're going to be killed by the AN94 until you do. If you don't get the AEK-971 in BF3, you're going to be killed by the AEK-971 until you do.

That's what makes it feel like a grind to me.

Whether you appreciate CoD or not, it did have an extremely interesting way of balancing the weapons and unlocks in MW2. The FAMAS was a slightly less effective version of the M16, the M4 was a slightly less effective version of the ACR, and the SCAR was a more or less interchangeable version of the TAR-21. Almost identical rifles, offering slightly different handling, but with the very same damage values.

So basically you were always playing on the same terms as people who were ahead of you. To me that's the perfect way of doing it, because instead of unlocking gameplay advantages, you're unlocking toys to play with.

To me that's just way more gratifying. In BF3 I ultimately have to work to be competitive. The M16 and the AK74 are both good weapons, but in the specialist classes you really need to get some unlocks to truly be on the same footing as everybody else.

It's the difference between letting me play for love of the game, and making me play so I can get those specific weapons, and to me that does matter. I may take one more game than I might otherwise do because I want an unlock pretty bad, and that's far less fun than taking a game just because I feel like it.

Posted 1 year ago #
IL DUCE
Member

I feel quite a difference between Battlefield 3 and MW3, completely different games IMO...also I don't feel BF3 is much like MoH...maps are much larger on Battlefield and the game definitely feels much better...

BF3 is all about open maps, vehicle and infantry combat, class based warfare and working together to capture/destroy objectives...

MW3 is a more constricted infantry only experience on smaller maps with killstreaks as opposed to vehicles...

Both are good games, top notch in visual quality of course, but I would consider BF3 innovated more from BC2, while MW3 just took MW2 and improved everything that was already there...but either way, the genre is definitely getting lazy and both games are very similar to their predecessors

Posted 1 year ago #
spiderLAW
Member

I can agree that all weapons need to be unlocked from the beginning. I thnk the only unlocking that should be involved is things that would set you apart from other players such as weapon cosmetics, player cosmetics, tags, etc.
There should be some sort of incentive for leveling up but i dont agree that it should be weapons.

Posted 1 year ago #
mojo
Member

"Here is the thing. Well one of them anyways. Some people say that unlocks stink because they make you grind, playing for hours. Well correct me if I am wrong, but won't you be playing for same said hours anyways?"

OG: superficialy seen, yes, im plaing anyway.
if u look a little deeper, how it is now, im working the game to get to a point where i can finaly _play_ it. i have to put effort into the game to get it to a state where i can take full advantage of it.
Thats self-defeating

Posted 1 year ago #

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