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1. Telepathic.Geometry
   Member

   ...as a hardware manufacturer? I'm starting to think so, and here's the best reasoning I can think of:

   I am a stalwart fan of Nintendo, I've bought every console they have and played a huge number of their games over the years, and I adore Zelda, Pikmin, Samus and co. like you wouldn't believe, but I think I'm gonna miss out their next one.

   In other words, if someone like me loses interest, then most of the hardcore who still love their Nintendo games may just miss 'em out altogether (assuming they didn't already jump ship because of Wii).

   We're now in an era where games like Dead Space, Demon's Souls, Uncharted, Infamous, Bioshock et al are becoming the new must-have franchises on consoles, and the Zelda games I love so much are not compelling enough to make me buy hardware with so much compromise.

   Not having DVD playback on the Wii was frankly a pain in the arse. But it made a kind of sense. Maybe everybody did already have a DVD player. No HDTV was a disappointment too, but that too was understandable, as at least here in Japan, HDTV has only just become the broadcasting standard this year.

   But not having GC BC - presumably so that they can sell us it all again as DLC - and just barely keeping up with existing consoles oomph when it would be so easy and cheap to just push the boat out a little is very disappointing and miserly. The likelihood that trophy support and decent online will happen is pretty small too, am I right?

   And finally, we have the question, can they survive without the hardcore? I don't think so. Tablets and smart-phones are moving in on their handhelds, the console competition is fierce, and the huge casual market they have tapped is an unknown and fickle quantity.

   I think Nintendo Wii-U will be their last hardware. ;_;

   Posted 1 year ago #

2. Blerk
   Moderator

   I'm beginning to wonder if they've jumped the shark. The DS and Wii were bizarrely different and yet bizarrely successful. The 3DS and Wii U seem a step too far for most people, and seem reactive rather than proactive.

   The market has changed, yet Nintendo haven't - I'm not sure they're on the right track any more. The casuals they attracted to the DS and Wii have all moved on to iDevices, the hardcore they snubbed are all happily playing 360 and PS3. What have they left, aside from the rapidly-diminishing Nintendo hardcore fanbase and the younger market (who themselves are already migrating to the afore-mentioned iDevices)?

   If they want to get the hardcore back with the Wii U, they've made a significant error in judgement. If they're trying to retain the new fanbase, I'm not sure they can. They're in a difficult place, for sure.

   Posted 1 year ago #

3. DrDamn
   Member

   I doubt they will be finished in this way for a while. Huge cash reserves and they are still making bundles of cash from the Wii and DS regular machines. I do think that in capturing the more casual market this time they have switched from a very devoted fan base to a much more fickle one though - and in doing so also pissed off that loyal fan base.

   There is still plenty of room for them to return to their roots and try and pick up from there. Or to find something else new and exciting. They aren't done yet and they have plenty of scope for a few mistakes and missteps along the way.

   One thing I would say is that they really haven't picked up on the whole internet thing as well as they should have done. They should be innovating in this space not fumbling around producing half baked compromises. If they don't sort this out soon then maybe they will be heading the way of Sega.

   Posted 1 year ago #

4. Blerk
   Moderator

   For sure on the internet thing. They still seem to view the 'net as something we all need to be shielded and protected from, and their support feels like a "necessary evil" rather than something they actually believe in. They're amazingly backwards at this - it is possible to protect children online AND deliver a decent service. They need to spend less time reading Daily Mail scare stories.

   Posted 1 year ago #

5. DrDamn
   Member

   The Daily Mail is ace, couldn't find the article where they claimed pedophiles were cruising the motorways playing picchat on their NDS's trying to groom your kids but I did find these gems.

   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-563109/Ninten-Dont--How-I-watched-children-turn-monsters-minute-I-bought-game.html - columnist effectively admits buying pirated games (imported from HK with a bundle of 20 games!)
   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1092613/Mothers-fury-Nintendo-Scrabble-game-taught-son-swear-words.html

   Brain training doesn't help with dementia ...
   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1156103/Brain-training-games-like-Nintendo-DS-dont-stave-dementia-alzheimers.html
   Oh ... maybe it does?
   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1266612/Brain-training-games-Nintendo-DS-help-reverse-memory-loss.html

   Posted 1 year ago #

6. Deacon
   Member

   Don't worry about Nintendo... they'll be fine.

   The 3DSi will be out soon. Then the 3DSXL and the 3DSXLi. When WiiU hits they'll spend so much on marketing that no casual will be able to resist.

   Seriously though. Scrap the WiiU and put out all your first party software onto the PS3 & 360 already.

   Posted 1 year ago #

7. frostquake
   Moderator

   But now we have COST....HUGE DEAL...A VERY HUGE DEAL... as in the CVG article..Iwata states it will not come cheap like the Wii did!!

   "While the platform holder has become known for releasing lower-powered hardware at a low cost, Nintendo boss Satoru Iwata has already admitted that the Wii U hardware isn't going to be cheap, suggesting there will indeed be some serious power under its hood."

   http://www.computerandvideogames.com/307037/news/wii-u-50-more-powerful-than-ps3/360/

   Posted 1 year ago #

8. ManuOtaku
   Member

   Well iam a nintendo owner since the SNES era, and to tell you the truth iam happy with my wii, it has a strong list of great games and my wii gets almost the same playing time as my PS3 and 360, therefore i dont think they left the nintendo followers behind, 2010 was the prove for this we have metroid, donkey, mario, monster hunter, sin & punishment, kirby all in the same year, 2010 was for me the best in the wii lineup and iam very thankfull for that, not only that we have two main mario games and two zelda games on the same console, how much can anyone ask?.

   Therefore i doubt they will close as a manufacturer, and i wish they dont, they are the only gaming company left behind, and i mean as an only revenue, therefore i will support them till i die, i hope many more will do the same just to have them on the market,long life to nintendo, and long life to sony and microsoft too, and an special wish to sega so they can join the frey once more.

   Posted 1 year ago #

9. OlderGamer
   Moderator

   While I do think Nintendo unvieled WiiU before they were ready to do so, I think Nintendo is fine.

   I think alot of gamers that felt left out this/last gen with Wii are angry and venting. Btw, for what its worth the Wii has some real gems on it. Most of those gems are 1st party games. But some of em are fantastic. Like Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Mario Galaxy Games, Metriod other M, etc.

   Thing that people on sites like this need to remember is that the games industry doesn't NEED you. Sure they want to bring you along, but they could cut out the core almost completly and the industry would keep rolling along.

   Think I am wrong? Last year almost no one here played/bought a Wii. Yet last year 11 of the top selling games were on the Wii. And 8 of the top selling games were Wii EXCLUSIVES. Just for a point of referance, PS3 had zero exclusives in the last year on the top 20 sales chart. Zero. XB360 scored just one game. Core gaming just isn't as impartant as it used to be.

   This is also why so many former Core type games are getting wattered down so more then just core gamers can play em and want to buy em.

   I can understand how that ticks some folks off. But look at it like cable TV. Maybe your Cable TV launches and has News and Sports mostly. But as time goes by the services adds in a few more channels, like Cooking, gardening, maybe some movie channels. They still have News and Sports. But as they cointinue to expand and grow their list of offerings for News and Sports just becomes a smaller piece of the pie.

   Thats what has happend to core gaming. Its still there. And I doubt it is going anywhere. But the fact is casual gaming isn't going anywhere either. We are just going to have to share the channels.

   So just because Ninetndo is launching another system doesn't mean its time to make noise about it being all over for them. They know what they are doing. And what wrong with having a slightly different system? I don't want or need another PS360 type machine anyways. 3 systems trying to be the exact samething wouldn't work.

   The concerns I have with WiiU are the same concerns I would have with any new system. Price. Game selection. Online experience. BC with not only physical games but with DLC and digital purchases. Controler function/comfort. All normal stuff.

   Posted 1 year ago #

10. OlderGamer
    Moderator

    "...they are the only gaming company left behind, ..."

    This, exactly. Nintendo is at the very soul of what video gaming really is.

    Right now we are getting force fed mega million dollor franchises. A very select few all mighty pubs deciding what gets on shelves. And what doesn't. These games are all formula based and offer pretty much the same experiences over and over again. And unless we want to play Halo 14, Call of Duty 29, Forza 11, Elder Scrolls 22, Ass Cred 17, I think we honestly NEED Nintendo.

    You have no idea how much I miss Sega, they have never been the same after Dreamcast. And I don't think the industy is better for it. I don't want the same thing to happen to Nintendo. I don't think it will tbh.

    Posted 1 year ago #

11. ManuOtaku
    Member

    "suggesting there will indeed be some serious power under its hood."

    I hope this is true,i mean that it has more power than the ps3 and 360 even if it is a little bit more expensive, this will bring third party support to nintendo and will keep them even when the new consoles from sony and miscrosoft will be arriving, because the difference will be not that big as this gen.

    Posted 1 year ago #

12. ManuOtaku
    Member

    "You have no idea how much I miss Sega, they have never been the same after Dreamcast. And I don't think the industy is better for it. I don't want the same thing to happen to Nintendo. I don't think it will tbh".

    Yes Oldergamer i miss them too, a big time i hope they can return to the frey as some rumours might suggest***keep fingers cross****, and i dont want this to happen to nintendo because in the end will be having bad nintendo maded games, at least one thing that cant be said about nintendo first party tittles is they are anything but bad, quite the contrary they are great games IMHO.

    Posted 1 year ago #

13. DrDamn
    Member

    @OG
    "I think we honestly NEED Nintendo."

    Yes, where will we be without Mario Kart 12, Super Mario 16 and Metroid 10?

    Yes they do innovate but to suggest they are somehow the only shining light of it out there and everyone else is evilly pedalling the same crap again and again is well off the mark. In some respects they are as bad as the worse of them.

    Posted 1 year ago #

14. ManuOtaku
    Member

    Dr Damnm i agree to some extent, but i think that theres a big difference between mario galaxy for instance than Mario 64 or sunshine for that matter, yes they are mario games but with very different mechanics and ways of interactions, and look also metroid prime for example it is very different from the original metroid series and other M, they try to change things in their franchises if you look close enough, something that cannot be said about other great franchises on the other consoles.

    And also they do make new franchises like pikmin, but they are at least 3 games this gen that are new IPS, but they didnt left japan for being to bloddy or JRPG, and for that it will not crave the U.S users, according to nintendo of course.

    Posted 1 year ago #

15. DrDamn
    Member

    @ManuOtaku
    It's the same for a lot of others though, look close enough and you can see significant changes and innovation in lots of series. To be clear I'm not saying Nintendo don't - more that they aren't the only ones and they are as guilty as others of bad practises in a lot of respects too.

    Posted 1 year ago #

16. OlderGamer
    Moderator

    "Yes they do innovate..."

    Bingo.

    "... but to suggest they are somehow they are the shining light of it out there and everyone else is evilly pedalling the same crap again and again is well off the mark."

    Not really. Because their games do inovate and that does often change the way the games are played. I know some folks will cynicly call inovation a gimmick, but haters hate. Lets take Mario Kart, on consoles. First one was miles ahead of anything else for its day(only other racer even in the same league was Rock n Roll Racing, and Mario Kart was first). After SNES, was N64, the gimmick/inovation was 4 player split screen, great fun there. GC Mario Kart, introduced 2 players one kart. One player drives, one player handles combat, and players could swicth spots mid race. Wii has motion controls and online. I don't know what WiiU will have yet, but I am looking forward to it.

    Nintendo does change it up in terms of the way the games play. Most of those changes are focused around fun gameplay. Its not that other games are bad or evil. Just that too many companies focus on that formulamatic sucsess. Also Acti puts out yearly editions of their then/now current big name game franchise. They ruined Tony Hawk and GH this way and they are milking/ruining CoD the same way. Nintendo has put out one Mario Kart game per system. Not per year.

    "... In some respects they are as bad as the worse of them"

    Not worse, not even close. SMB games are the most released franchise games I can think that have had multiple releases per system, and still its not yearly.

    I am not turning into a Nintendo fan boy or anything, really. But with so much hate carelessly and needlessly aimed at Nintendo I figure they could use a voice of reason. Nintendo is far from perfect. And I play the Wii far less then I play the XB360 or PC, but in all fairness Nintendo is getting a bad rap here. And I think it is because of the whole Us vs Them stuff that comes from labeling gamers into Core or Casual groupings.

    Now if Sega were to suddenly announce Dreamcast 2, I would come dangeriously close to fanboy levels.

    Posted 1 year ago #

17. Deacon
    Member

    I agree with the Dr here.
    People (myself included) slate CoD regularly. But in all honesty how much CAN you upgrade / enhance an FPS..? graphics aside.

    Going from an old school 2D platformer it was to be expected that the Mario franchise would evolve as it has. While 95% of their first party output is undeniably fantastic, I don't really credit them for being all that innovative over the years.

    I had something else there but have completely lost my trail of thought.

    Posted 1 year ago #

18. OlderGamer
    Moderator

    Deacon I guess you hit the real issue on the head here:

    " While 95% of their first party output is undeniably fantastic, I don't really credit them for being all that innovative over the years."

    The question for me is almost always this one. Is the line up of 1st party exclsuives worth the price of the system? In the case of Nintendo I have always answered yes it is. Even if I never buy a game beyond those Nintendo made ones, I feel like I have gotten my moneys worth from the system.

    That is why I don't understand other people from Pat to readers here, do we really want Nintendo to make another PS360 type system? I don't. I just want them to do what they do. A gaming world w/o Nintendo would feel empty to me.

    Posted 1 year ago #

19. LOLshock94
    Member

    OG KUDOS to you

    Posted 1 year ago #

20. ManuOtaku
    Member

    "The question for me is almost always this one. Is the line up of 1st party exclsuives worth the price of the system? In the case of Nintendo I have always answered yes it is. Even if I never buy a game beyond those Nintendo made ones, I feel like I have gotten my moneys worth from the system.

    That is why I don't understand other people from Pat to readers here, do we really want Nintendo to make another PS360 type system? I don't. I just want them to do what they do. A gaming world w/o Nintendo would feel empty to me".

    My thoughts exactly +1

    P.S i recommend you try Little king story it is a gem of a game, dont let the cute cover design fool you it is very hard game and like i said a gem of a game, it is not a nintendo game but for me is the only third party game on the same level as a nintendo maded title, that and muramasa the demon blade.

    Posted 1 year ago #

21. DSB
    Member

    I think the answer is a lot Deacon. The limits of what you can do with an FPS is only limited by how much people dare to do with it. Look at something like Mirror's Edge. It was terribly designed, but an extremely good idea. CoD is arguably the most predictable iterated shooter out there, but it also gives people exactly what they want. A good, solidly designed adrenaline-packed shooter.

    I fail to see who else is moving the genre ahead these days. EA are boasting better tech, but they aren't using it for anything more than a sloppier version of Battlefield 2 with destructive environments. BF3 could change that, but I'm not holding my breath.

    I think OG is totally right. Nintendo have shown next to nothing, and already people are falling over themselves to wail against them. It reeks of compulsive thinking, and foolish platform pride. None of the criticisms levelled against the Wii U managed to hold back the first Wii.

    They did botch the reveal and they have shown very little so far, even to the point of worrying investors, but it's early in the game. If it still looks terrible once they actually start profiling the system and rolling out the games, then they're fucked. Right now, it's all second or third hand internet chatter.

    The journalists who actually went hands on were generally positive.

    Posted 1 year ago #

22. DrDamn
    Member

    I think you are missing the point OG. You can come up with individual examples all you like, I can counter with opposing examples - even within the most lambasted of series. CoD:MW - massive innovation in the way the FPS were played online, CoD:WaW - Zombie Mode, MW2 - SpecOps. Counter example of saturation and stagnation from Nintendo? Pokemon. It all depends on your playing preferences and what you like in the first place.

    The point is that innovation is everywhere. If you just look at the best from one area and compare it to the worse in another you come back with a distorted view.

    Posted 1 year ago #

23. DrDamn
    Member

    Also just to clarify I had a Wii and really looking forward to what Nintendo do with WiiU - I'm one of the ones excited about it. I have a DS and 3DS.

    What I am contesting is the assertion that without Nintendo we would have nothing but "Halo 14, Call of Duty 29, Forza 11, Elder Scrolls 22, Ass Cred 17" and moreover that they would all be exactly the same as Halo 13, CoD 28, Forza 10, Elder Scrolls 21 and Ass Creed 16. It's a blinkered view.

    Posted 1 year ago #

24. OlderGamer
    Moderator

    "What I am contesting is the assertion that without Nintendo we would have nothing but "Halo 14, Call of Duty 29, Forza 11, Elder Scrolls 22, Ass Cred 17"

    It isn't so much that having Nintendo changes the content in other games, as much as it is having Nintendo gives us options to play games and experience gameplay that isn't found in other games.

    And Nintendo does impact the other two system directly. Wii-Mote/motion controls from Nintendo lead to Move and Kinect. Nintendo showed us that there could be more to play then the same ole stuff. And they showed us that more people play then just traditional demographics.

    "... and moreover that they would all be exactly the same as Halo 13, CoD 28, Forza 10, Elder Scrolls 21 and Ass Creed 16."

    There would be slight tweaks to those games. And as generations and tech moved forward they would look nicer. But the formula that drives those games wouldn't change. And it could be argued that maybe the formula shouldn't change. People buy what they want, and like what they like. Core or Casual. But you ever sit down for some Multiplayer with some friends, and after an hour or three go by your tired of the game and want to play or do something different? But you have this one or two friends with you and they can't seem to get enough of the game your currently playing? Its a little bit like that.

    My point was never that it had to change. Or that said games were outright bad. Or even slightly so. It was more that without Nintendo it give us less choice and less variety. I do often get sick of the selection of big boxed games on PS360 systems. I love that Nintendo games can shake things up. It helps me from feeling too much like I am in a rut.

    "It's a blinkered view."

    Nagh whats crazy is in how some people have trouble seeing how the bigger picture works, being too focused in on just whats right in front of them. I don't get the impression that your like that DD, so I am sure you know what I mean.

    Posted 1 year ago #

25. DrDamn
    Member

    @OG
    "It isn't so much that having Nintendo changes the content in other games, as much as it is having Nintendo gives us options to play games and experience gameplay that isn't found in other games."

    I agree - but so do lots and lots of other companies. Nintendo is just a part of it.

    "There would be slight tweaks to those games."

    CoD4 gave us some of the biggest innovations and changes in online FPS play for years - I'd put the 4 in big bold capitals if I could. One man's slight tweak is another man's innovation.

    "And Nintendo does impact the other two system directly. Wii-Mote/motion controls from Nintendo lead to Move and Kinect. Nintendo showed us that there could be more to play then the same ole stuff. And they showed us that more people play then just traditional demographics."

    EyeToy controls from Sony lead to motion controls from Nintendo too. Game devs and hardware manufacturers are showing us all the time that there is more to play than the same old stuff. If Nintendo were to implode somehow - not likely - there is still masses of innovation and change out there. It would initially leave a hole, but that would be filled by others.

    "But you ever sit down for some Multiplayer with some friends"

    Not online with Nintendo I haven't - sorry cheap shot but valid in this context ;)

    Posted 1 year ago #

26. ManuOtaku
    Member

    "But you ever sit down for some Multiplayer with some friends"

    Not online with Nintendo I haven't - sorry cheap shot but valid in this context ;)
    You should try Mario kart and Monster hunter tri, they are only two games, but for what it is, it is great online on nintendo, i hope they did more with this though

    Posted 1 year ago #

27. DrDamn
    Member

    Is that the same Mario Kart where I needed to swap not just Friend codes but MK friend codes too - and everyone I did this with had to take my 2 huge codes and remember to put them in too. I tried but it was such a convoluted and backwards process I never got there.

    Online is a great example where others have innovated (MS in particular) and Nintendo have not just failed to follow but actually implemented shoddy and half baked re-inventions of the wheel in a triangular shape. Again just to stress this is in balance of the innovations they have done in other areas.

    Posted 1 year ago #

28. OlderGamer
    Moderator

    I have spent hundreds of hours online playing PSO on Gamecube too.

    But I know what he means, would be really nice if Nintendo could open up a bit online. This is one of my hopes for WiiU. It doesn't need to be current day Live quality, but if it could be Xboxone quality/PSN quality, I would be happy.

    Posted 1 year ago #

29. DrDamn
    Member

    @OG
    Yep, I'd be happy with the basics. Easy to add friends, online comms of some sort *and* provision for demos. I think the 3DS has shown some in roads in those areas. It does need to be more consistent and joined up though. I realise that the Japanese approach is more conservative, but companies like Clap Hanz with Everybodies Golf and FROM with Demon's Souls have shown you can make this a distinguishing feature of your online implementation.

    Posted 1 year ago #

30. ManuOtaku
    Member

    DrDamn well i play it without the frined codes, only played with the rest of the world and it worked great, and thats what i meant no lag, great fun, but if you want to play with friedns, yes i agree, well at least monster hunter tri did dish them out of the equation, great online.

    For what i read EA stated that the online on Wii U will be open to the developers to handle,and also they say that they will use something like gamertags, if this true i think it will be good.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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