Hey, im new around here, so just to confirm is asking for advice (see post " What r we playing now " ) classed as a "spoiler" or not.... this is 1st gaming forum that i have joined, even though ive been a gamer since the zx spectrum 48k days, so all this shit is new to me, but since my xbox died & the PSN is down i need, something to put my energy into so i thought fuck it why not here
VG247's forum - the rules(85 posts)
Spoilers is basically giving away any information about plots in games that are plot heavy. Like the ending to Portal 2 or who the killer is in Heavy Rain etc. Obviously stuff like saying the tibet level in UC2 was great isn't really a spoiler.
I'm all for this but my problem is the trolling part. Where is the cut off point? For example on the news post about MDK2 WiiWare (in the first few posts)
Kerplunk says to OldGamer that he's saying blah blah blah. This could be quite easily classed as a troll as its not on topic. But I wouldn't want Kerplunk to get a warning or banned because of it, he is simply voicing a valid opinion (if perhaps in an overly aggressive manor (perhaps we should do this in a more 'civilised' manor)). I guess these side warfare bits can and are annoying but its one of the main reasons I like to post. 'Discussions' or arguments are what drive us forward and change our overall ideas. If no-one argued then nothing would change and we wouldn't advance. I guess you can still argue about the actual topic but when a clash like Kerplunk vs OldGamer happens, what are they supposed to do, write a new forum thread?
I'm just saying that trolling might actually be interesting and maybe, just maybe, change the view point of a particular person a little bit. Probably not and it almost certainly won't make much of any difference (certainly not to the extent that it drives humanity forward) but still.
But then there's the stupid and really annoying trolls that just clog up space. But how are we to filter the adult views from the childish ones? Maybe even the childish ones should be given a chance as their still opinions. Maybe you think that it's total bullshit idiocy but that's YOUR opinion. It's just not that simple. There is the occasional complete troll like all those random youtube links, ad posters and then people saying this is shit because I say so (actually again that's their opinion) so at least that's easy.
Also as a bit of a side note what about those funny little add-ons that make you smile but aren't really relevant. Like for example typing this all up was a little extra hard for me because I'm freezing and my hands are shaking like a shitting dog. Should we remove these too?
Then again maybe I'm holding trolling in too loose a definition. Maybe all the time and effort I put into this post is for nothing because it doesn't actually count as trolling, but I felt like voicing my opinions for the potential well being of humanity.
is there even a way to report someone who breaks the rules?
and I hope the rules applies to article comment sections:
-1. Don't piss me off.-
-2. No personal insults.-
Exactly! Anything to do with name calling is an insult, calling people kid, childs, moron, n00bs etc anything to do with offensive comments are insults!
fanboy call outs are not insults. ps3droid, xbot etc are just accusations that are not true. I can call you a thief, but are you are thief? if you are therefore you would find it offensive, if you are not you would laugh at it. But calling someone stupid, idiot is a plan insult!
-3. No derailing of threads purely for platform trolling.-
Applies to people who go on about PC is awesome, consoles are sh*. Or people who go on about ps3 is better than xbox 360 etc.
-4. No spoilers at all, unless they're in specifically marked forum threads.-
-5. No sustained trolling of either formats or posters.-
Important. people constantly go to the same similar article and post the same garbage! For an example Epic's Unreal Engine 3. Why go to the same UE3 related article and constantly saying UE3 is a piece of sh* or UE3 is the best engine evar? that is trolling.
in reply to Noodlemanny
you are right, I just checked that article and #4Kerplunk was the one trolling and started the argument!
Seriously people in this place are so butt hurt, why do you all give a fuck what other people are saying!?
if Oldgamer says MDK2 is a Dreamcast classic.
Why attack him just to prove him wrong?
if you are going to correct him, fine correct him but no need for additional attack.
it just annoys me how a simple article spans 50+ comment with constant bullsh*!
Visitors and Anons who would come to visit this site once in a while would be irrated to see the same usualy arguments in every article published.
It just doesn't make this place professional, but makes it more of an immature gathering place much like N4G.
Now that we finally have a rule, lets see just how things will fall into place. Now the ones who constantly call people 'child' will behave like a proper child does and stop belittling others.
That's true, instead of attacking the person just point out what their saying that you disagree with. But how will the other react, and what if you want to continue it further?
And you didn't really read my post, did you... too long? yeah that would probably put me off...
And my grammar isn't exactly precisely accurate.
yea I read it now!
I was planning to visit a site but I forgot what I wanted to do man!
I thought by coming back to visit this topic I would slightly remember what I wanted to do but sadly still can't remember:/
so what you are trying to say is trolling is good and can lead to good conversation and discussion.
I doubt it! People online have this ego problem that they think they are always right. It's best to just say "you are wrong, this is why with proof". Rather than saying "you are wrong, this is why I dislike you you idiot, this is why you are wrong with proof". The second reply is just rude and disrespectful. The next person would then retaliate back.
if the person used the first comment, the next person might not bother to reply back or might just say, "oh I didn't know".
Many people are way too aggressive. How ever you treat people, they would treat you back the same.
now if only I can remember what I needed to do>:/
For all the stuff I just said above now I think about it, the trolling is pretty much the main reason that I became a member. To argue my case and try to point out someone's misguided opinion. Although I can defiantly do that while not trolling and sticking to the actual topic.
Wait now I think about it the very first thing I posted on this site was how a bunch of guys/girls? were going totally crazy at each other and that they should GTFO.
P.S @ xino
Discussion was exactly the word I was looking for but couldn't think of.
And I'm sorry about making you forget about that site thingy.
P.S.S. @Patrick Garratt
I guess this site is very much your own little baby that's all grown up so it must be infuriating to see so much clutter on it. This site Isn't really meant for all that shit, its a gaming news website. So I guess you have my pity (in an un-patronizing way)
yeah I guess that is true. You know what we need? We need everyone to be really loving and considerate, then we'd have no problems.
But seriously now, what if people tried to tone it down a little, would that make it better? Actually making this rule will tune it down by eliminating the ones who don't. (also this tangent is actually a bit of a troll in itself...)
EDIT, As I said the news threads that are really long do get very annoying and are just pointless. I'm just saying how do you know when its a discussion/ heated argument or if its just two dicks clashing? I guess totally banning the whole thing is just the more effective and practical way of dealing with it. Perhaps its just impossible to deal with it any other way.
Separately how would someone know what does and doesn't count as pissing you off Patrick? What if I accidently piss you off by putting really long posts on your rule book and directly promoting trolling which you just banned?
Which I'm sorry about, *awkward cough*.
Noodle, you might be long winded, but your not trolling.
As for the Tea thing, Pat didn't "snap" and ban him completly out of the blue. Tea had been building upto that for a very long time.
I don't even know who TEA is. I only know he's a person cos I read it some where. So I obviously don't know about 'the Tea thing'.
And I didn't really think I was trolling I just wanted to voice my opinion.
You weren't trolling, thats what I was saying. you have nothing to worry about at all. As for being long winded, when I first got here almost no one commented more then a sentence or two. I brought walls of text. I was the first king of long wind. So no worries ;)
yep, he put us all to sleep ;-)
When I first came here all anyone said was "meh".
It was like being back in the Highlands...
lol at day ;)
Anyway can we actually talk about the issue I arose. Its kind of why I raised it.
well its like anything isnt it? people have be to be trusted to make the right call, the mans not daft. tea will be back and so will spiderlaw and others in time and the farce about PSN will be gone.
you could ask the same question on most forums, even then people who do troll act daft then decide to play innocent, its up to the moderators or admin to make the right call. you can never please everybody.
err how will Tea be back I thought everyone was saying he was banned.
One of the things I did say was that this rule will filter out the trouble because people don't want to get banned. Read some of Erthazus newer posts, they oddly seem much more civilized now.
hes banned till june 10th
yeah I just read that. Maybe a more discreet way of banning people instead of publicly humiliating them?
Iv'e been around this site since 2009 and i love it. I comment on news articles very rarely because most of them are destroyed by none other than a certain guy namned Erthazus. He cant come up with an resonable argument, and he starts an argument at every fucking article. He should be banned because he is destorying the site IMHO.
no I think you are confusing debate and arguments.
Debate is definitely what you need and are looking for!
Arguments is nothing but a YES, NO! That just leads to fight man.
Arguments that would lead to "grammar problem, later moves to belittling and moves to racism" and all these other bullsh* I've heard so much online. And I always know how to tackle them because I've heard them all before.
Debate is when people talk about a topic and ALWAYS bring proof along with them or backup.
If you go to the parliament or look at what they do. Everyone isn't arguging. They are debating and always cite references, backups and sources to back their comments. If voices are being raised it means the debate is one hell of a debate- which is dead exciting!
Just like how I was trying to explain why PSP is dead on arrival and 3DS will outsell it.
I was marked as a troll because these regular people who trash this site are not familiar with debates however used to arguments.
When I talked about 3DS outselling PSP 2 and PSP 2 dead on arrival, I listed out sources and backups.
that is a debate, you discuss about a topic until you get to the end of the point and ultimately proves who was right and wrong.
Argument is just constant attacks, verbal abuses, and excuses that will never end and topic will keep going back to square one as well as drifting apart to other topics.
It is really RARE to find debates at community places. If you visit places populated by lots of members, you will never find a debatable topic! If you go to a dead end community place, with less members, you'd find out that people there are mature (trying to keep the site alive) and will debate with you.
These people who pollute the site and constantly call us 'child' do not even have experience when a member does act like a child.
I suggest these people should visit places like IGN, Gamespot, Gametrailers, Eurogamer.
Make a topic and see just how many mature, assholes and 'child' will reply to the topic.
I like a small quiet community place rather than overpopulated community place.
Well Pat, its a shame that my point(s) got proven so quickly.
Rules are for everyone or they're worthless. You've already got a healthy faction of people who are happily nodding amongst themselves and saying that "everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others".
If you genuinely wish to cultivate a reasonable community then this is the sort of behaviour that will destroy it from within.
If, on the other hand, you're not fussed about the health of your community and are too busy with the front-page content of your site then that's your choice too.
As has been pointed out, whilst it's entirely up to you how you conduct yourself, I think you were heavy handed and needlessly public in your moderation - you'll find that this lack of diplomacy will be reflected in the behaviour of the onlookers. Like it or not, how you conduct yourself sets a standard that your audience will use as a benchmark. And a dictatorial manner will turn away just as many potential members of the community as permitting trolls or exercising double standards.
I guess what I'm saying goes back to my earlier comment about not doing this by halves and being consistent in the manner the community is managed. If you don't care for it then it's disingenuous to suggest you do and to act in inconsistent fits and bursts. If you don't care for it much (and proper community management of any sort is no simple undertaking) then be honest with yourself and others about your long-term intentions.
Finally, and don't take this as a criticism, bear in mind that your readers and commenters will be a reflection of your content in most cases. If you favour sensationalist, alarmist, eye-catching content that sways in one extreme or another then you can expect feedback of a similar standard.
I'm so glad Pat decided to get some proper tolerance in this place!
Wouldn't you want to see different visitors comment? or see developers comment on articles?
rather than have the same constant bull that spews 24/7 causing a simple article to span 50+ comments full of sh*!?
sorry but this place wrecks of N4G style!
It needs to be more mature like Escapeist Magazine or Gamasutra.
One of the famous troll is finally gone, tell to await for the rest of the packs to lead on and follow by leaving!
Kerplunk, furby and Connor O Michael have "all" been banned permanently. And before any of you start moaning, I have my reasons.
Pat, you are too soft to be a despot. Take that as a compliment I guess.
This will be a day to tell our grandchildren about! :-D
"Where were you when the banhammer fell, Grandad?"
Kerplunk's been banned? Holy shit, I wasn't following his input across the site, but I thought the points he (whether I agreed with them or not) raised in this thread were presented in a mostly informed and respectful manner.
I understand you not wanting every banning to turn into a twenty page thread of discussion and debate, but I'd appreciate knowing the incident which initiated the ban, if for no other reason than it demonstrates real world examples of what type of behaviour is considered unacceptable.
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