Yes, they are.
They moan, bitch & whine that it ain't new & moan, bitch & whine when it is.
Yes, they are.
They moan, bitch & whine that it ain't new & moan, bitch & whine when it is.
I'm ruining gaming, yeah. I don't deny it.
There's such a thing as in-between.
They complain if it isn't new because nobody wants to play the exact same game they've bought before over and over again with very minor tweaks. Nothing new ends up feeling like being ripped off, and nobody likes a lack of change.
They complain if it's new because typically, "new" ends up meaning "we're going to completely change just about everything to the point that the company is just ripping off the name of a known IP to sell what is obviously an idea for a brand new one."
If you want to see a proper game with new elements to it, look at Mortal Kombat 9. They took what makes Mortal Kombat what it is, overhauled the gameplay and added new features, and did more than ever before with the story. They took the history of their franchise and built upon it in genuine, meaningful ways. Hence, a proper new entry.
Most games that are "new" entries in a franchise try to be "new" by radically redesigning everything about the IP. The phrase "turn nuns into whores" comes to mind. The idiotic perception that because people know what to generally expect, that means it requires a complete 180 of what came before. Woman's chaste, turn her into a slut. Man's a selfless hero, turn him into a colossal dick. You got an admirable badass on your hands, turn them into a cowering victim.
Because obviously as we see in our everyday lives, if we start to feel our lives are getting stale, we should forsake everything we ever believed in just to be fresh and different. Right?
Your assumption that gaming has been ruined or is being ruined is fundamentally false.
My conclusion is that this generation was awesome. Reasons:
Arkham Asylum; Bioshock; Borderlands 2; Braid; Castlevania: Lords of Shadow; Dead Space; Demon's Souls; Deus Ex; Dishonored; Donkey Kong Returns; Far Cry 3; Fez; From Dust; Heavy Rain; Infamous; Journey; Kirby's Epic Yarn; Limbo; Lumines; Mass Effect 2; Pikmin 3; Pixeljunk Shooter 1 & 2; Portal; Prince of Persia; Ratchet and Clank: Tools of Destruction; Rayman Origins; Red Dead Redemption; Skyrim; Skyward Sword; The Last of Us; Tomb Raider; Uncharted 2; Vanquish; XCOM...
And the next generation, looks to have a few interesting games too. Ergo, I move that gaming is not ruined, and that in fact, it's better than ever.
Yours sincerely, a middle-aged gamer.
Generalisms are ruining gaming.
i think there's just a lot to complain about gaming as a business these days. i think it's essential to point out what you don't like, it's good not bad. if you complain, you should not forget to point out the many many positive things as well though. lots of teens and twens complain about things too, like about nintendo for example (generalising a bit for joe edit). overall i think every demographic complains the same...just about different things.
I think failing to understand that your audience is aging and failing to be able to move with it does significant harm and leads to said bitching & moaning by the whining middle age gamer.
The industry needs to understand that the audience isn't just 17yr old males anymore. And constantly aiming games at them is foolish. The older gamers are harder to please. Mostly because when the industry rehashes stuff, we have seen it already. So we grow tired of that tread mill.
Imagine putting Barnny or Blues Clues or Dora the Explorer on TV for teenagers. There was a point when those teens where younger and perfect fits for those shows. But as Teens they want shows that are better fits. Just like as teens they will watch shows/movies listen to music and play games that later in life they won't likely appreciate the same way.
Kids grow up.
If adults complain it is because we aren't kids anymore. Everything from the over the top violence to the in your face sex, language and other bits that often draw in younger audiances losses its impact when you have been married for 25-30 years, raised two kids, and live an adult life.
I could write for hours, but in short I think that the industry is failing to keep pace with its audience. But on the other side of the coin, I think much of the audience needs to recognize that they are older and should play less of the kinds of games that don't appeal to them.
I am in my 50s, and I game everyday. But I play different games today. I won't come to the forums and bitch(too much lol) because CoD, Halo or Gears doesn't make me happy. I still dabble with those type of games. But I put hundreds of hours every year into Madden Football, NCAA Football, Civilization, MMOs, Diablo type games, and games that suit me more. I am not exactly a Lollypop Chainsaw gamer anymore.
I have to agree, look at the latest mgs threads
If it wasn't for those middle age gamers, there wouldn't be a video game industry as it is now. With the average age of gamers in their 30's, your not going to get away from those "middle aged gamers".
I am in my early 40's and love video games as much as I did in my youth during the Colecovision and Atari days.
I would argue the ones that ruin gaming are the trash talking no respect given adolescents (mentally as well as physically) that berate, shout chauvinistic and sexual comments to female gamers, threaten to kill developers when they release a patch they don't like, leave bad rep when they lose to you in a multiplayer game, cheat, etc. I would bet that the "middle age gamer" has a very low percentage that does anything similar.
fearmonkey, you sexy man you. I agree with some of your points, especially the ones involving Colecovision- dang thats good taste.
But do you really feel that the "adolescents" are ruining gaming? And if so why? Just because they talk trash and are disrespectful? It is those people that give the game industry its character, its strength and most of its vocative community. Just look at the Xbone debacle, most of those who spoke out against it where young adults and adolescents. Certainly wasnt lumbering dinosaurs in their 30s and 40s like you or I.
@cory - lol..yeah Colecovision was great :) That was the original Xbox of it's time, the most powerful system on the block.
My point about Adolescents wasn't really about young gamers, it was about any juvenile immature acting gamer (as I mentioned mentally as well as physically) that does what I said above. Trash talking is ok but some take it too far, those were who I was targeting.
Thanks for great discussion !
I think it is hard to say whether middle aged men "ruin" anything (Do we agree that comments and protests of people on the net ruin industry? that's a question). It is about voicing opinions. I think that the whole game industry is so big and diverse that one can't simply say Group A is ruining it. Either teenagers, or middle aged men.
Yet I feel that a certain group of people (middle aged men perhaps, but any hard to satisfy gamer can be in this group) are very hard to satisfy. I feel like that they have been around since the whole thing got moving and they have been playing games and paying attention all these years. At the end of the day this demographic is the group that made game industry what it is now and this dedicated demographic makes a big chunk of the core gaming market. The game industry needs to grow up with new franchises, new gameplay, new genres and types of story should be told in games. So the industry can bring more people in and cater to its audience.
I agree. But the best sellers of the industry are filled with things the older generation gamers supposedly don't like. So, Do old gamers buy all of these because of fun gameplay , or the majority of the people who buy games are teenagers ? There is a paradox going on I think.
I feel like the sales charts are often not in line with the thought that the majority of gamers are adults who don't like the teenager vibe.
Agree with the monkey, OG and the telepathic monkey.
If anything, making consoles and also games far too expensive for teens or kids, the gaming experience would actually improve.
Yeah because parents totally don't buy games.
Like JM said, generalizations like this are ruining gaming though. If a douchebag plays videogames then he's a douchebag that plays videogames. It doesn't mean that gamers are douchebags. If there's a creepy dude at E3 stalking girls or whatever it doesn't mean that gamers are creepy nerds. And if dumb teenagers are being sexist on Xbl it doesn't mean gamers are sexist. No one talks for me, and no one talks for the entire medium. It's just an industry, a series of companies, and a form of media.
There are no "gamers" and there is no all-encompassing entity of "gaming" that can be ruined. There is Videogame journalism though that will do everything in their power to misrepresent the scene, and popularize dumb stereotyping, cue the annual article that describes the decline of quality in gaming, the impending industry crash of "gaming", the death of gaming, the rampant sexism in "gaming", and so on.
I love games, fuck journalists. And fuck Kotaku.
I honestly think we would be in much better shape if we had more grumpy gamers, both inside and outside the industry. People who aren't afraid to expect a lot more than they're getting.
I'd say the press is made up of 80% cheerleaders who will never go against the grain, who practically refuse to critisize, and then a more intellectual mess of people who are critical, but will often waste their time on turkeys like feminism or fictional violence. What about the state of game design? Do we care about that? There's just not a lot of editorial focus there.
I don't know a lot about the internal workings of the industry, but I thought it was pretty obvious when Jason Rubin started coming out and critisizing his peers that it was considered much better manners to keep your head down and the publisher happy.
Theirs informed constructive criticism & then there's forum raging because of a change of character hairstyle in a reboot.
Precious little of the former, whilst we're drowning in the latter.
And the main contributors are grumply older men.
@zinc: I agree, but for the latter, it's different if the hairstyle is a genuinely important element of the character's identity, and especially if it's just one of many things changed about the character.
Bayonetta 2, for example, while I hate the new hairstyles for Bayonetta and Jeanne and think they do slightly hurt Bayonetta's identity, it's definitely not a big problem since as far as we know everything else about her is perfectly intact, it's just the hairstyle that's different.
I also don't think Jill getting blonde hair in Resident Evil 5 was worth a big uproar, and in fact if the RE5 team hadn't completely botched use of her in that game (for a lot bigger reasons that don't include her hair), the blonde hair could've been a very powerful story element. She basically looked like a female Wesker without the sunglasses. More could've been made of that, especially if Wesker had her hair dyed on purpose to mock her and show ownership over her, which I partly think may have been the intent and they just gave other reasons to avoid more potential scandal following the "racism" claims.
On the flip side, Dante's hair color change was only one of many, many things wrong with what Ninja Theory did with DmC. The reason it got so much attention was because out of everything shown, it was the most obvious visual marker of just how inappropriate the game would be for Dante and the Devil May Cry franchise. The real problem people had with the game wasn't "oh my god his hair isn't silver," it was the complete identity change and the scrapping of the core franchise for the sake of whatever crap Ninja Theory wanted to pull. There's a pretty good chance that DmC would've gone by without as much hate as it got if Capcom had simultaneously made and released a Devil May Cry 5.
In fact, that's what most of these companies that try to "reboot" or "reinvent" characters should be doing. Most of these "reboots" would be a lot more successful if the companies making them simply continued the actual IP in a proper manner and made the "reboot" ideas into alternate universe spinoff titles... or, of course, if they're too radically different, made those reboot ideas into the brand new and unrelated IPs they should be.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who started gaming with Colecovision.
Although it is funny to see Oldergamer, who is a huge Nintendo fan, talk about how companies need to "understand that your audience is aging and failing to be able to move with it does significant harm," when that is EXACTLY Nintendo's problem. Miyamoto doesn't seem to understand that no one stays 10 years old forever and that eventually, your games have to grow up.
As I've said many times, if they had taken, say Mario Galaxy's gameplay, and given it a grown up story and a new character as the lead, that would be the type of progress that would make me and others like me, in our thirties, give Nintendo's systems a second look. I was tired of the Mario character in high school. And now, here I am 20 years graduated, and they're still milking him.
I agree, it is 50 and 60 somethings that don't even play video games in charge of companies making games and game consoles. ie MSFT and EA
People who think that simply forming and expressing a critical opinion is a bad thing are what is ruining gaming, because they're the kind of people who never want their favourite franchises to change or for game design to evolve in any meaningful way.
You must simply accept everything as its always been. If you complain, you're a "middle aged whiner".
Christ, now I know how old people feel when nobody takes their opinions seriously.
@Michael - in other words, people who disagree with you. lol
Now I see what you're saying zinc. The kneejerking is a bitch, although I'd be surprised if it was mostly middleaged men. You'd think the more mature crowd would be less inclined to join the mobs.
And yes, whining about hairstyles is ridiculous.
... But did you know that Mikey from TMNT says "Booyakasha" instead of "Cowabunga" now?
HERESY! THE ONLY PUNISHMENT IS DEATH!
Right in the childhood, for seriously.
i must absolutely disagree with that charles:)
i think nintendo does a fantastic job in capturing the classic gameplay and artdesign elements everyone loved as a kid and implements those into new interpretations of those games. that's what they basically do and they do a fantastic job.they create unique and brandnew stuff all the time out of these old and proven elements and it works. it's definitely not childish.
to me, playing donkey kong country returns feels just as mature as playing demons souls.
bayonetta, loving it, is more childish than kirbys return to dreamland, or at least on the very same level. mortal kombat isn't more mature than smash bros, in fact, it feels much more immature to me...and so on. i honestly think so.
i wouldn't want a more "mature" nintendo game. maybe the next metroid will be a bit darker but i'd prefer a more clean and colorful look actually. windwaker is by far my favourite zelda game. the cartoon link my favourite link. i don't feel more mature if i have a more mature looking setting. that's all make up anyway. at it's core i play a game.
My god, Poly defending Nintendo? Color me surprised.
i am not defending anything. i don't need to.
i only posted what i think about that issue.i never defend nintendo. i never have. i always post my opinion. it really is simple as that.
i just think your view on nintendo is extremely one dimensional and therefore your conclusion is flawed. i wish you would scratch on the surface and look a bit deeper into it. sure, you could say the same thing about me, there just is no right or wrong to be found here...but i am not defending nintendo. i do enjoy, truly enjoy many of their games though.
^ Ah, you're not defending Ninty, you're enlightening the narrow minded!
St Polygem of Mushroom Land :)
Thats great that you feel they are mature games because Nintendo certainly doesn't:
And theirs also a demand for it:
A. Suitable or intended for adults: mature subject matter.
B. Composed of adults: a mature audience.
Kiddy/Immature/Childish etc etc
A. Suitable or intended for the immature: immature subject matter.
B. Composed of adults: a immature audience.
Just used the opposite of Mature.
Middle-aged gamers who cant let go of their gaming youth, pushing the industry with nostalgia are defiantly a pain in the ass. Look how many nostalgia-fuelled games are coming out; all of the remakes, most of the games on kick starter are some form of remake or 'Spiritual Successor' of something.
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