http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937 Just another bbPress community en-US Thu, 23 May 2013 21:05:57 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://www.vg247.com/forum/search.php http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39936 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 20:02:44 +0000 Dragon246 39936@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>@Ireland<br /> You are more near to the definition of "karma" than others here(By the way, the word is "karm" not "karma", that's how english people spoke the word as sanskrit and hindi have many more syllables and pronunciations than most European languages. Karm means "work" in sanskrit). Although its not exactly what vedas say. Karma means nothing, it just means doing work, although mixed within are notions that your works are not yours alone, they are governed by god and that you wont receive any more than you deserve. Thats the definition according to Hindu literature. I know it because I studied it for 12 years in school as a compulsory subject.</p> <p>Now on justice. Like art, I would say its meaning lies in the eyes of the beholder. Basic definition is in dictionary, anything else is personal interpretation.<br /> Is there justice in the world?<br /> Depends on the person. I would give you a fresh example. 4 years ago, there were Mumbai Attacks were around 170 people were killed. The only remaining terrorist, Ajmal Amir Kasab, was hanged few days ago.<br /> There were celebrations on the streets, and for many victims kins, that was justice. But for some, until the masterminds of the attacks were brought to the books, there will be no justice. Yet others, who feel there will be no justice unless terrorism is finished. And of course there are still for whom there wont be any justice, since they lost someone irreplaceable to them. Every one of them is right in their own way.<br /> So justice clearly does not have a single answer.</p> <p>About life being unfair, deal with it. Ever played GTA? Well hello to the biggest open-world "game", life, except it isn't. No second chances, no restarts. Hell, you are already starting off with some stats fixed. But as I said, deal with it. Nothing will be gained from dying, except the fact that everyone will forget you someday and you will only cause your dear ones grief.<br /> Stop complaining and do some work, maybe you can change your future and worlds too. </p> <p>As for someone comparing science and religion and arriving at the notion that both are false, you are mistaken. Granted, religion has outstayed its needs (maybe I will elaborate on that sometime), but if you are telling science is lying then you are mistaken. Most people think less of science since its not something everyone can understand. I certainly don't expect most people to even understand what special theory of relativity is. But if you want answers to the biggest questions, science is probably your only recourse. There are still vast no. of things science cant explain, but that's the beauty of it. Scientists spend day and night finding answers to questions logically, unlike religions which depend on age-old books for answers and it wont even budge from its wrong notions. Remember, something that is easy to understand isn't always right.</p> <p>Maybe I went a bit too dark in there, hopefully I was able to get my point across.</p> <p>Life is what you make of it, as someone said. This is hell and heaven. There is no afterlife, just false reassurances for people. I find it amusing how people believe in such concepts which have no basis whatsoever.</p> <p>In the end, I would like to say this. Life is difficult than Dark Souls, bigger than Skyrim and offers so much more than the biggest JRPGs. But one thing is for sure, it will be your most fulfilling platinum if you succeed in it.<br /> And it doesn't require frequent firmware updates, just a single one for life. And it isn't costly too, since you got it for free :)<br /> That was my lame attempt at a joke, hope you like it. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39935 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:17:05 +0000 Ireland Michael 39935@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>@polygem, for what it's worth, I didn't even realise English wasn't your native language. =P Use the shift key a little more often and you'll be fine. Hahaha!</p> <p>You did fine. I think I ramble on too much when I write stuff, and I'm constantly rewording it so that it sounds right in my head. Your advice to deathmoon was thoughtful and to the point. I can definitely respect that. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39933 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:49:06 +0000 polygem 39933@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>good post michael. man i wish i could articulate what i am trying to say like this. english isn´t my mother language and i always feel limited in my posting because of that language barrier. it´s not so bad if i just want to chat a bit about videogames but when it gets a little deeper, like here, i really do struggle ;) </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39929 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:45:23 +0000 Ireland Michael 39929@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>@Deacon What most people label as karma is a concept that is far removed from what most Indian religions actually consider it to be, especially the Buddhist interpretation. It's often simplified into an extremely basic "you get what you give" spiritual belief. Its not "You do this, you get this". It never has been, and anyone whose lived life for more than five seconds can attest that it's simply not the case. Plenty of us deal with countless hardship no matter how kind we are to other, and plenty of selfish, manipulative people claim to be happy, and are successful.</p> <p>Karma is the belief that expressions of kindness towards others will promote more kindness in the world, that it will spread out and benefit others, whilst also providing you with a sense of happiness in yourself. Likewise, evil acts will also do the same, and influence others in kind. It's just basic cause and effect wrapped up in a spiritual shell. That's certainly not "baseless".</p> <p>"So for one man living an abundant life and a second man suffering is a fair life?"</p> <p>Life is suffering. And it isn't fair. It always has been, and it always will be. Justice is a fickle and selfish concept. What you might consider justice another person might consider cruel or wrong. It relies on far too many personal factors to be a reliable concept.</p> <p>"then what is the point and purpose of life?"</p> <p>The purpose of life is whatever you want to make it. The best you can do is hope to leave a positive imprint on the world in your current life</p> <p>@deathmoon When I was your age, I dealt with a lot of baggage too. Most of us do at that age. I used to suffer from severe anxiety, depression, bullying, etc. I thought my life would be miserable and never get better. Now I'm 30 and married to a beautiful woman with two amazing kids. I didn't even kiss my first girl until I was 21. Hahaha. It does get better.</p> <p>Find something you enjoy, and invest as much energy into positive things in your life. I could tell you simply to not let all the bad stuff get to you, but it's rarely that simple, and that takes time, patience and life experience. There's no one answer. Search until you find something that's right for you. You'll find what works for you eventually. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39928 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:36:00 +0000 deathm00n 39928@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>@Manu Well, I still don't have the Panic syndrom, it could evolve to that, this year was a hard one. But thanks to the advices, my mom used to take valeriana for her stress. The problem with yoga is that I don't have time... that's one of the reason for my problems, I'm working full time and being paid with less than the minimun wage, but since this is the only place where I can work with programming (I want to be a game developer, but here I just do comercial systems, and Brazil don't have a solid gamemaking history) in my city, I think it's the best place for me right now. And I'm doing college at night in the neighbouring city, I left job at 16:30 and get a bus at 17:35, to arrive in the college at 19:00, I go out at 22:40 and get home at midnight, to wake up the next day to go to work at 8:00. This is what is making me stressed, combined with the anxiety and shyness it seems I'm going to explode. But since I'm frequenting a Psychologist at saturdays it's getting better, still not good, but better. Like you said, time can help it go away. And no, suicide isn't on my mind anymore. And yes, games and books are my scaping from problems so I play and read a lot in the weekends.</p> <p>But let's get back to topic, I stole the guys topic for myself lol </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39927 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:19:00 +0000 freedoms_stain 39927@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>Yeah, corporatism sucks, inequality sucks, but scaring people into doing something about it with the threat of "eternal damnation" is not really a particularly good way to go about it.</p> <p>Very Christian though. Not he way to go about it. Very Christian. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39926 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:11:55 +0000 polygem 39926@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>yoga is indeed a good idea....try to find a teacher with some spiritual background maybe. must not be superspritual stuff but it could help you in your spiritual search too. indian spirituality is pretty interesting and inspiring imho. reading some vedic literature was a life changer for me when i was between 18 and 25 or so. seriously was, had a huge impact on me. it´s just good philosophical stuff. it wont hurt, that´s for sure. people tend to laugh it off. but well....what can you do about that?. just be open minded. let stuff flow. don´t stress yourself or let others set pressure on you. most of the time things sort themselves out just by giving it some time. you got to start to accept and like yourself though. the world is a game. play it fair. in the end we all have to die one day and that´s ok. no need to worry about that. it belongs to life just like birth. but until then, make every day count. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39923 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:33:48 +0000 ManuOtaku 39923@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>Deathmoon, I did suffered panic attacks syndrom too a few years back, it is one of the worst thing, it accelerates your heart beat, like your heart it is going to come out of your mouth, you cannot breath properly, you sweet, you cannot sleep well, etc, at one point i cannot watch a football game of spain national team, because the anxiety feel at that moment originated a panic attack, it is something that gets in your every day life, really one of the worst phsycological diseases.</p> <p>I got mine at work, here were i work, there is a lot of mobbing, which is basecally bad treatment physical and phsycological done by the employer, it was so bad that i became anxious at work and that developed the burnout syndrom which eventually became the panics attacks.</p> <p>If i can give you an advice, do yoga, drink natural infusions or beverage from sedative plants like passiflora, lupulo, melissa,valeriana, etc, find natural medicines that contain this plants it will help you control the panic attacks, and will help you sleep better, and for the love of God dont commit suicide man, that is not the answer to the problems, when i was younger for a lot of reasons, i was tempting on doing it also, but i received a lot of support, and let me tell you the problems within time you will deal to handle them, and you will realize that it is not worth to lost your precious life over it, man hang on, keep playing a lot and doing what you love, and dont think about it, i have 36 yo, this 15 of december i will come to 37 yo Godwillingly, and i am quite happy with wife and kids, dont waste it, it will get better, always gets better.</p> <p>some links<br /> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passiflora" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passiflora</a><br /> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissa_(plant)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissa_(plant)</a><br /> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerian_(herb)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerian_(herb)</a> </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39922 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:22:25 +0000 deathm00n 39922@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>@polygem Thanks man, I'm working to get better, I go to the psychologist and I'm getting better, but there's just days when everything seems to be wrong,and I ask why I am not like everyone else. But you all get what I meant about the justice in my post right?</p> <p>And xino touched a important point for me now, religion. I still don't know what I believe, I was born catholic but I went to a middle school that adopts a philosophical aproach to almost everything they teached, so we were induced to thought how something works and why it works and not so many about who made it work. So you can see that in science everything makes sense, you can come back to the essence of everything until the so famous big bang, and there it stops. So I still believe in God, but not that he created everything in the way the bible says, but he (or they, or it, we can't say what happened) was responsable for the big bang. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39919 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 15:18:42 +0000 polygem 39919@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>@Deacon: what´s wrong with karma? it´s an old moral-philosophical concept...a spiritual science if you want. how can it be "baseless"? the indian culture is deeply rooted in this. at least it´s not less "baseless" as believing in god or the NASA.</p> <p>@Da Man: LOL, i don´t take that personal because you are probably right...but it would make an interesting game.</p> <p>@deathm00n: you are still very young. it is totally ok not to have a girlfriend in your age. your confidence and all will get better the older you become. a friend of mine has had his first real relationship when he was 38! he wasn´t shy in general, only towards women. he is a cool and funny guy, totally accepted in social life, having a good job and a lot of mates....but women, it never worked so well for him, he was just TOO nice. he has a skin mutation, nothing really weird, actually it all looks pretty damn cool and bad ass on him, really not disgusting at all, not even close, but enough for him that he kinda felt like a freak his whole life. long story short: he is deeply in love for a few years now and totally happy in his relationship. learn to accept and love yourself. embrace what you have, don´t listen to others much, look for what you like in life and do it. treat others fair but don´t give a shit about others hating on you. with 19 the world looks very different than with 30. you will be better. suicide is not an option man, please just scratch that off your options list, it´s against the rules, you don´t want to cheat do you?<br /> ;) </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39918 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 14:56:55 +0000 xino 39918@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>thanks for all your input to the ones who read it all and added constructive texts.</p> <p>So for one man living an abundant life and a second man suffering is a fair life? then what is the point and purpose of life?</p> <p>we wear our clothes and many of our clothes are made through child labour exposure (blood, sweat shops). The distributors and brands of the clothes will not even tell you how the clothes were made or in what condition.</p> <p>In a a multi billion building, you have the people in higher ranks doing their job while you have the lower ranks cleaning up the building.<br /> It's funny how the weak are the ones who actually serves and cares for the high position, no different to child labours clothing us.</p> <p>But when we go back to the purpose of justice in life, no one can bring justice. I can kill someone's children and devastate the parents lives and get away with it. No one cannot do Eye for Eye on me as they would only put me in jail, to escape I can just commit suicide.</p> <p>Now this is where I want to share The Truth.<br /> God (Jesus) is real. Nothing make sense in this world, everything is senseless. The world is corrupt, the whole purpose of knowing Jesus is to love each other. Now since the world doesn't know him or hates him (like the bible says), this is why this world is so corrupted and there is NO JUSTICE!<br /> But when it comes to other discussion, people will love to talk about them- drinks, drugs, alcohol, president, women, movies, games, devs, company, production, clothes, countries, holiday, tv show etc. But when it comes down to Jesus, nothing but hate comes out of it.</p> <p>When you mention Jesus, people scoff at him and just hate him so much.<br /> We can never have a clean peaceful discussion about someone's "faith", just hate that comes out of it.<br /> Everyone wants to do what they want, which is FINE! But without knowing what is Right and Wrong, this is exactly what SPAWNS all these problems in this world!</p> <p>I'm not here to force any doctrine I just want people to think.<br /> Because when we do die, it's either Heaven or Hell.<br /> This is why I'm glad we have those 2 places because it is what brings Justice to people who suffered in this world.<br /> Everlasting burning for the evildoers and an Abundant life for the people who suffer.<br /> The world will lie to you and make you believe it's all delusion, yet the truth is right in your face. You see it in books, music, children's stuff, movies, games etc</p> <p>People may say, "it's not my concern if you are having a Good life and another person is suffering, it's basically life". Why?<br /> there has to be something to do to make others happy, but no one wants to do good.<br /> Even walking outside the street, one person CANNOT drop 1 pence to a homeless. They cherish that 1 penny so much, yet you see people throwing 1 pence across the street. They complain the homeless waste their money, so what? people/homeless do not judge others what they use their money for.</p> <p>Karma? I don't believe in it, it's not guarantee even though it's real. Because people who do the worst act gets away with things. Or what about the famous line "why does bad things happen to good people?"</p> <p>I used to be gamers like you all. But now I've seen the truth. Everything about this world is one big lie.<br /> Satan has made this world his footstool. No one is ever good.<br /> No justice in this world. Yes religion starts problem, many Christians do wrong.</p> <p>What do you believe?<br /> people that talk about the creation of this world and life through the bible?<br /> or<br /> scientist who talk about big bang, evolution etc?<br /> Why believe one of us when you can find out the truth yourself?</p> <p>Thanks all....I have nothing more to say. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39914 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 13:23:11 +0000 deathm00n 39914@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>I don't believe in justice being measured in money, like people going to court for moral damage or something like this, if you suffered you can't remove it from you with money or prison or death of others. Money isn't happiness (this sound really stupid and looks like something you teach to kids, but it's true). Take me for instance, my family was considered for a long time one of the richiest of the city I live(little country city in Brazil, doesn't mean we were billionares or something, just had more money than the average), and this reflect to this day yet, we have a good live, I can have what I want. But I'm not a happy person, I really hate how I live. I'm 19 years old, don't have the job I wish I had, my family always fight, usually because of money, I have a lot of psychological problems (shyness and anxiety, wich eventually can turn into something called Panic Syndrome) and what I really wanted above all was to have a girlfriend, never had a woman in my life.</p> <p>What does this have to do with justice? Everything: I have money, don't have "serious problems" (by society standards) but I am very unhappy, considered suicide sometimes. But my friend, who is really poor, have to work by himself to sustain his whole family(since his father can't work because of him have the Panic Syndrome I mentioned) is the most happy person I ever know, even with his burden. Is this justice? Imagine if give all my money to him. Would this change his happiness or my sadness? The difference would be that the money just changed hands, my problems would still be here.</p> <p>Sorry if my thinking is silly, but this is something I really wondered many times </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39912 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 12:35:14 +0000 zinc 39912@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>Justice is what we make it. Thankfully their is no omnipotent deity watching our lives, thunderbolt at the ready :-) </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39908 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 09:37:18 +0000 Deacon 39908@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>It annoys me when I hear people speaking about 'karma'. How can anyone honestly believe in such a baseless concept?</p> <p>And as for justice, you only have to read a newspaper to see what this looks like these days.</p> <p>In short, no :) </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39906 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:51:53 +0000 Da Man 39906@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>Consciousness and most of the posts itt make just as much sense and have just as much depth as most videogames storylines. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39903 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:25:42 +0000 polygem 39903@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>there´s no such thing as real justice if it´s made by man made rules....look what many corporations are doing and getting away with it. the people making laws are gangsters themselves quite often, knowing nothing about life and morals. how many so called christians do you know that beat their wives, eat meat or have their money in some weapon share transactions or use nuclear power or whatever? all that isn´t what a christian (or muslim or hindu, or whatever) should do imo, yet they do. if you have a math exercise and you only get one number after the comma wrong, the outcome is wrong... this is also true for your moral choices, you got to work to get that formula right one day. people pretend to have morals but they do not really live their own standards. they mostly buy into something and then think it´s enough (like paying tax for church).<br /> i believe in karma though. money is nothing you can measure a good or a bad life with. people tend to do so, but i think that´s just capitalism that washed their brains out. success is when you´re rich, they say, well i never understood what money had to do with being happy. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39896 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:05:59 +0000 The_Red 39896@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>OK, I have serious problems with seeing these two among the rest:</p> <p>"*young men and women are out there clubbing every friday night, getting drunk and having 1 night stand. Basically living their world."<br /> "*Child A has a mom and dad and complains about them while child B has none."</p> <p>A child having bad / horrible parents has nothing to do with another not having either. Both are victims. People wanting to get smashed and having a free / open sex life is has NOTHING to do with justice or anything. Just because there are underprivileged people in some parts of the world, it doesn't mean those that do enjoy such things are wrong (Unless they directly try to steal from the underprivileged).</p> <p>The cases for both children are injustice while the case for people that love partying / drinking / having sex a lot does not even belong to this discussion. That's they're life style and it is perfectly normal (Of course, unless they resort to violence and abuse)</p> <p>As for justice before AND after death? NO. There is no justice. People do horrible things all the time. Sometimes they get caught and sometimes they are punished. Sometimes they don't. In the end they all die and that's it. They are gone forever. I'd like to think that some sort of karma or semi-divine justice exists but it doesn't. It's just our brains trying to justify injustice in this world. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39890 Fri, 30 Nov 2012 02:24:41 +0000 Stardog 39890@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>The world doesn't owe you or anyone justice/fairness. You are a conscious being born into the body you're in purely by luck, and you just have to deal with it, good or bad.</p> <p>And DSB is correct. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39889 Thu, 29 Nov 2012 23:52:08 +0000 Hunam 39889@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>Why is people getting drunk and fucking suddenly wrong? </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39888 Thu, 29 Nov 2012 22:37:09 +0000 DSB 39888@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>I think you should probably consider asking your primary physician about the benefits of medication. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39887 Thu, 29 Nov 2012 22:34:59 +0000 Joe Musashi 39887@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>Justice? Questionable.<br /> Karma? Definitely.</p> <p>JM </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39886 Thu, 29 Nov 2012 22:16:56 +0000 monkeygourmet 39886@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>Justice : Red Dwarf </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6937#post-39883 Thu, 29 Nov 2012 20:47:29 +0000 xino 39883@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>NOT GAMING RELATED!</p> <p>I want you all to think about this.<br /> is there Justice in this world?<br /> example-<br /> *"a man murdered a guy's family for no reason and the man only got 4 years in jail". Is there Justice?<br /> *young men and women are out there clubbing every friday night, getting drunk and having 1 night stand. Basically living their world. Is there Justice?<br /> *Extremists and Terrorist go to shopping mall and blow themselves up taking 50 innocent (and not so innocent) lives for no reason at all. Is there Justice?<br /> *there are people living in War torn countries and in critical condition poverty. Is there Justice?<br /> *Child A has a mom and dad and complains about them while child B has none. Is there Justice?</p> <p>so what is Justice then?</p> <p>Because if no one can't answer these questions therefore it proves there is NO justice at all in this world.<br /> Is it fair for you to have an 'abundant' life while others in this world are suffering? </p> <p>One thing that annoys the 'hell' out of me are people who only think of themselves, just because you can't afford a house and you are paying a lot for rent house you complain. Does he have the right to complain? what about people who are homeless and living under the bridge?</p> <p>As you can see, this is proof that there is no Justice in this world.<br /> Then "life isn't fair".<br /> Who is Justice? how can one bring Justice in this world? is there Justice when someone dies in the end?</p> <p>Saddam Hussain may have killed and tortured thousands of people. Just because he dies in the end. Does that mean Justice has been brought to the people?<br /> so 1 tyrant's life is equal to 1700 families he ripped and destroyed?<br /> because if you kill a man, you destroy and break apart the man's families and relative! People will grieve and mourn for him.</p> <p>Which again proves that even though 1 man who killed 5000 people and he himself dies, there's no justice to his death.<br /> "but he's died, which is all that matters" as many would say.<br /> What about people who were mentally and physically abused by their parents at a young age? You do know it would cause a side effect to those innocent people when they grow up, so how would that person's life be mended back to normal? If the parent dies in the end, and you tell me the victim should be happy; for what? 2 people for the person's innocents years of life and emotions?</p> <p>*there is no Justice in this world<br /> *there is no Justice when the villain dies because he has caused enough chaos while alive more than being dead.</p> <p>We only die once! The only way to bring justice is to perform "Eye for an Eye and Tooth for a Tooth". What ever you do to me, I will do it back to you!<br /> So if Hitler (or Nazi) can approve off and command 6k Jews massacre, we would say Hitler/Nazis should die 6k times, for Eye for an Eye because it is justice.<br /> We all agree on this right?</p> <p>You blow up 30 people as a Suicide Bomber. Therefore for Justice, you should be blown up 30 times by dying! This is an act of Justice.</p> <p>But in the end, these are all worthless talk that can never happen. We all die once.<br /> But our -Father- is the only one who can bring Justice when we die.<br /> I will reply back "with The Truth" when I observe to see what people have to say about this.</p> <p>what say you!? </p>