http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723 Just another bbPress community en-US Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:14:21 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://www.vg247.com/forum/search.php http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38822 Wed, 31 Oct 2012 06:56:13 +0000 Digital Bamboo 38822@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>I wish I could just shut them off. I really dislike seeing and hearing that notification pop up while playing. </p> <p>Trophies awarded for accomplishing things that every single person that plays through the game accomplishes are annoying as well. You beat the first boss? Congratulations! You finished chapter 3? Way to go! Fuck off with the meaningless praise &amp; let me play my game in peace. </p> <p>As for trophy whores? I don't understand them, but if that's what they want to focus on, go ahead. I think game developers should strive to design trophies that are actually enjoyable, rather than punishing, to earn. The pointless, outrageously time-consuming ones make me think that some developers might hate trophy collectors, and are just too lazy to come up with any better ideas. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38817 Wed, 31 Oct 2012 02:47:09 +0000 Telepathic.Geometry 38817@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>I think good trophy design is a big problem for game devs. On the one hand, they wanna keep people playing the game for as long as possible, but on the other hand they can lead people into boring play if they do that, meaning that even if the game is fun, the player is doing non-fun stuff to get a trophy.</p> <p>For example, Fallout 3 was pretty good about giving you trophies you might actually want to do to beef up your character, or discover lots of the game world, but it was never a chore IMO. But new Vegas had stupid shit like "Take lots of damage" and "Eat lots of food" which (I think) lead people into uninteresting grindy play.</p> <p>Ratchet and Clank 1 asked you to get 1 million bolts, which was pure penance, and it's one trophy I do feel a bit ashamed about getting (although I did it using a glitch) because I could very clearly see the confines of my skinner box. In the second and third games, they give you up to a 20 X multiplier for not taking damage, so it's always fun playing carefully, seeing how long you can make your run last... And getting 2 million or even ten million is actually enjoyable.</p> <p>What the fuck was my point here anyway? </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38765 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 16:14:52 +0000 Ireland Michael 38765@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with achievements. They're a nice little meta-game for people to pursue, and they hurt nobody. Personally, I do them for the fun of them, but the only time I'll ever actively pursue them 100% is if a game is compelling enough for to play beyond the main experience that much.</p> <p>To date, the only game I've ever *wanted* to do that with is Bayonetta, but that was because of those games require multiple playthoughts anyway, and I never felt like I was being force into doing something I didn't want to anyway.</p> <p>The kind of achievements I have no interest in are the brainless grinding one, especially when the numbers are completely ridiculous. That's extending the gameplay for the sake of extending the gameplay, I'm nothing to play a game for 40 / 50 / 200 extra hours for the sake of a few points on a virtual scorecard.</p> <p>The worst designed achievements are the one that try to *force* people into playing games a certain way to get them - like those obnoxious "Find every chest in the game" achievements you find in most JRPGs. I'll play the game in the manner I desire, and I certainly won't play through it 5 times on different difficulties if the game was only serviceable enough the first time around. That just feels like a chore.</p> <p>It's especially bad if the achievements affect the multiplayer of games, because people aren't playing the game properly, and it negatively impacts on the experience for everyone. That's just horrible design, and should never happen.</p> <p>At the end of the day, they're harmless, and they can be fun when done. When used as obnoxious time extenders though, I'm simply just going to move on to something else. I have better things to do with my time.</p> <p>One good use I've been seeing for achievements recently (especially in the fighting game genre) is when they're used as a "tutorial" of sorts, and help guide the player towards the intricacies of the gameplay. Tekken Tag Tournament 2 did a really good job of this, by actively encouraging the player to check out different modes and trying out different nuances of the gameplay through the achievement themselves. Its pretty ingenious. I'm honestly surprised it hasn't been done more before. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38762 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 14:56:50 +0000 YoungZer0 38762@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>I don't care one bit about people who love them and people who dislike them. It doesn't effect my gaming experience. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38758 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 13:43:52 +0000 KrazyKraut 38758@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>And add something generally: I dont hate ppl who collect and hunt them, but some of them are really really pissing me off. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38757 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 13:24:35 +0000 KrazyKraut 38757@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>@YoungZero and Lulshuck</p> <p>Yes..they make us play the game differently..and different difficulties do that too.<br /> God of War for example...how often did you use the dodge and block buttons in Easy/Normal mode? And then...how often in Hard or God Mode?^^ </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38756 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 13:16:07 +0000 LuLshuck 38756@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>I try and be an achievement whore on some games such as the orangebox, dishonored, gears of war 3 and halo because not only are those games fun but if you look at the achievements they are really fun specially dishonoreds that try and make you play the game differently but games like fifa 12 which put achievements for the online which clearly ruin the game E.G scoring a goal as the keeper then yeah thats the shit i dont bother with but its very rarely I ever try and 1000G a game and to this day I still havnt </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38755 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 12:57:46 +0000 ManuOtaku 38755@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>You know i play my games without looking for the trophys/achivements, i like to be surprise when i play my games and i received the message for an X trhopy/achivement, and once i finish a game i dont look for them, i replay the games i like on difficult setting, and if by doing that, playing differently gives more achivements/tropys great, but i dont do it for the sake of them, just to enjoy my gaming, and to receive i nice surprise, thats maybe the reason for my low score and thropys this gen ;_;</p> <p>Now when they give gifts, or something extra for having those like an avatar item or a game discount, etc, then i will check them constantly and live for them, in the mean time i keep playing as usual. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38753 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 12:51:20 +0000 absolutezero 38753@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>I wish there was some way to just completely remove all trace of them. Like I could just flick a switch and have all trace removed whenever I wish.</p> <p>So just like its there for those that enjoy them, the option is also there for me to just dispose of them. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38751 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 12:15:42 +0000 YoungZer0 38751@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>Sometimes they inspire me to play a game differently. I don't know why, but they do. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38750 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:49:08 +0000 DrDamn 38750@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>@KK<br /> The fault isn't achievements and trophies themselves though - it's a game structure and specific achievements which encourage this. I think for many games online only achievements are generally a bad thing because of the gameplay they encourage (like this).</p> <p>There are quite a few ways you can avoid this in achievement and game design. That's where the fault is. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38746 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:24:39 +0000 polygem 38746@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>@KK: yep. this is a very good example. it´s absurd. if you do stuff like that, how can it be an achievement. how can someone spend his precious time with something like that. totally insane if you ask me. what for?<br /> for showing off your virtual firends that you are such a cool guy unlocking all the trophies for a videogame? honestly, if i see people online that are obviously trophy whores i definiteley try to avoid playing with them, definiteley no candidates for my friends list. i have no problem with people who really love certain games and then want to complete it. but if it becomes an obseesion like in the scenario you described it scares the shit out of me really. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38744 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 10:40:19 +0000 KrazyKraut 38744@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>Hehe^^<br /> No, Telepathic.Geometry hate was maybe a too harsh word.</p> <p>The problem is the following:<br /> I bought Binary Domain some weeks ago and started playing it, for me after Tales of Graces f and Gravity Daze GOTY so far. After I completed the main campaign I wanted to go online and check out the online modes it has.</p> <p>Yeah, now the Trophy Whore Journey begins.....</p> <p>After waiting 4 minutes to find a match in Team DM, I joined a game and got kicked after ...5 sec?<br /> At first I thought its because of my ping or something or my PSN Name MaveraUS (yes, some ppl hate the US...) but the reason was a different one.</p> <p>I checked the name of the lobby host and wrote him a msg over the PSN system and asked him wtf he/she/it kicked me. A fast reply came:" Sorry, we are boosting."</p> <p>Sad for me that I learned later, that you can report folks for boosting, because its not allowed...and you know why? Because of this reason, because kicking folks out of the game.</p> <p>Dont get me wrong, I have some platinums too. When I really, really like a game, and played all modes, challenges, ranked to the top lvl of a multiplayer status etc...I want more and try to get the platinum. I am a completionist when I felt in love with a game or just have fun. I did this in RPGs and other games already on my PS1. But...when I see how frustrating or time consuming it is, I let it be and play the next game. Because its not worth.</p> <p>But, the story goes on. I got a msg from an other dude who asked me if I want to boost. I knew, this was my only chance to check out the MP in Binary Domain. So I joined them and yeah..joined them -.-.</p> <p>I asked what has to be done. It was Free-for-all DM and they boosted the Multiplayer Challenges (Win 30 Matches in every mode, get 50 kills with every weapon and so on) and now it was time to do the 30 win challenges in Free-4-all. One guy has to kill all other folks, and these folks had to run to the middle of the map and get killed by him. And 30 Matches meant 30 x 10 minutes. So...I think the game has 7 online modes? 300 min x 7 = 2100 minutes = 35 hrs for one person!<br /> In this time I beat at least two other games or one game completely....</p> <p>to be continued (tomorrow we will check the psychological profiles of some of those guy I helped boosting) </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38743 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 10:06:55 +0000 polygem 38743@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>from a psychological point of view the trophy whore/ completionist is much more on the insecure side of things than the one who doesn´t care about it...trust me, i studied that 3 semesters ;) </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38741 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:31:17 +0000 Da Man 38741@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>Usually, people 'hating' achievement/trophies addicts all fall under the category of insecure, disturbed folks playing weirdo japanese video games for teh dark and teh mature stories. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38740 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:16:59 +0000 DrDamn 38740@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>Lots of hate for something which is optional and hardly impacts you. The only real negative impact is achievement whores impacting online games by not playing the game properly. Everything else? Who cares. Good achievements can really enhance a game by giving you challenges and new ways to play you might not have considered, even poor stuff at least allows you to look at friends progress and compare notes. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38739 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:13:03 +0000 Dark 38739@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>Well for me i don't hate them , i just think they are wasting their time and money<br /> it is ok when someone enjoy the game and want to get all the trophies etc..</p> <p>but i have seen a lot of people buying shit games (like movie licensed games) , just because it is easier to get the trophies and Platinums , and they don't even enjoy the games!</p> <p>sad ,really. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38738 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 07:35:50 +0000 polygem 38738@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>same here. it makes the games more like consuming stuff. a checklist really. i would have prefered we wouldn´t get them to begin with. i do not mind ingame highscore like in DmC4 or mario kart and many many others, or cool unlockables for ingame content and avatar stuff- but i´d really love to see the achievements systems disappear again, but this wont happen. i don´t hate them or the achievement whores, but i certainly don´t care much about it.<br /> only time i really went for the achievements was halo reach. what happened then: i do have all the achievements of the main game but i unlocked the last 1 or 2 of them after i purchased some dlc. so i bought the dlc with new achievments, then unlocked the last main game achievements. now that i had new ones the game does not register as a full clompletion....because i bought dlc early. it´s a broken system really. i have all the reach dlc and still only 2 or 3 left of those but i don´t care anymore.<br /> another thing: my 360 GT got fifa 12 hacked, guy hacked my account, played that game i never had, stole my ms points and then fucked off. i received a refund and even more points from ms. BUT the hackers achievements of fifa 12 are still in my gameslist. i cannot delete them, ms says they can´t either. it might be a minor issue for some but it really pisses me off. i do not want to see those hackers achievemnts al the time. i want to edit my achievements, or at least in a case like this ms should be able to do that. otherwise it just proofs how meaningless this system is in general. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38731 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 02:15:50 +0000 SlayerGT 38731@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>They tap into my completionist tendencies in a bad way. Where they are intended to get people to play or keep playing a game to get them..I've avoided games to NOT get them. Last Gen and the ones before it I would try games out that I wasn't entirely sure I'd like to own. There wasn't anything hanging over my head if I didn't finish them. Its silly i know but i don't like being reminded that i "wasted my money" or "didn't get enough out of a game". </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38730 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 02:14:30 +0000 ejams 38730@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>I understand the hate towards the idea that it essentially makes a game in to a checklist of things to do, but it also gives me reason to try games I never would have before. Sometimes you go in thinking you just want easy trophies or whatever, but then you get a nice surprise at how good the game actually is.</p> <p>I also find it very satisfying after doing something incredibly ludicrous or challenging, and then seeing the trophy and the little chime that follows. Never gets old.</p> <p>And yes I'm a supreme trophy whore, over 3400 trophies, 21 Platinums and counting ;) </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38729 Sun, 28 Oct 2012 23:47:54 +0000 Telepathic.Geometry 38729@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>I have a confession to make too. KrazyKraut hates me! </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38727 Sun, 28 Oct 2012 19:48:25 +0000 OrbitMonkey 38727@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>I used to really go for them when they were new y'know... But now I can take or leave them. If I really like the game, I'll try to hover them up. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38726 Sun, 28 Oct 2012 19:30:45 +0000 OlderGamer 38726@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>What SlayerGT said. </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38725 Sun, 28 Oct 2012 19:18:59 +0000 SlayerGT 38725@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>I don't hate the "whores"..i hate the actual achievements/trophies :/ </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38724 Sun, 28 Oct 2012 19:10:32 +0000 Dragon246 38724@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>The hate is mutual then :) </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38723 Sun, 28 Oct 2012 17:46:38 +0000 makta112 38723@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>*gasp* </p> http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6723#post-38722 Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:53:20 +0000 KrazyKraut 38722@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ <p>..I hate trophy/achievement whores. </p>