VG247 Forum » Topic: The hardcore

VG247 Forum » Topic: The hardcore http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=4710 Just another bbPress community en-US Sat, 18 May 2013 15:16:53 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q http://www.vg247.com/forum/search.php Noodlemanny on "The hardcore" http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=4710#post-23924 Tue, 31 May 2011 18:10:21 +0000 Noodlemanny 23924@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ Well I've been thinking about going multi-platform (as in both 360 and PS3) for a while now. If I do, I'll pick up Demons Souls and give it another try. OlderGamer on "The hardcore" http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=4710#post-23923 Tue, 31 May 2011 18:06:54 +0000 OlderGamer 23923@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ Some good points in here. Myself, i can safely say that the older I get the less challange I enjoy. I paid for the game, why shouldn't I be able to get to the end of it and experience all of the content, right? But yea, I enjoy the fun factor of games, not the acomplishment factor of finaly getting past a too tough spot. reask on "The hardcore" http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=4710#post-23920 Tue, 31 May 2011 17:06:31 +0000 reask 23920@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ I keep hearing about this game and it has me curious. Not a rpg man really but I enjoyed fallout 3. Deacon on "The hardcore" http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=4710#post-23913 Tue, 31 May 2011 15:15:33 +0000 Deacon 23913@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ From what I read up there ^^ I agree with what Bluebird said. Having recently picked up Demon's Souls, I'm pretty familiar with it's mechanics, and can honestly say that it is not the ultra-hard game that some may have you believe. It certainly doesn't allow laziness. You can't play half-arsed. You need to pay attention and concentrate - even when you're just grinding. And as Bluebird said, every enemy has it's pattern and behaviour. While you may be killed in 1 or 2 hits, should you hold back, use your surroundings to your advantage and really scope out your opponent beforehand, a solution or tactic should present itself without too much trial & error. Demon's Souls is challenging, but in a damn good way. Most games these days present us with at the very least SOME kind of challenge... but few are as rewarding and well built as DS. Challenge adds replay value. It also adds to the feeling of achievement when you finally master it. I imagine it's one of the hardest aspects for developers to get right! DSB on "The hardcore" http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=4710#post-23873 Mon, 30 May 2011 22:00:47 +0000 DSB 23873@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ I have to agree with OrbitMonkey. Quite too often "hardcore" is just a puffy way of saying you like challenge or accept clumsy game design. It's really just one or the other. I like a game like Combat Mission Shock Force. It's horrible in so many ways, the game design is just all over the place, and the challenge is seriously punishing, but at the end of the day it's just another game focused on doing things in its own way, for a small group of people. Personally I think Hitman is a bad example, my experience with that game is one of overcoming the design rather than the actual gameplay. In terms of challenging games - Don't get too attached to them. If the last decade or so has proven anything, it's that gamers ultimately want to be convenienced more than they want to be challenged - And you really can't blame them. It's a shame that it has cost gaming so many great genres, but I like convenience as much as the next guy. After playing something like MW2, I'm amazed that people actually want to put up with a cumbersome system like a serverbrowser, rather than pushing a single button and playing the game you want within seconds. Demons Souls seems to be the antithesis of convenience versus challenge, and I think that's a sign of hope. I haven't tried it so I can't say, but ultimately a complex game will often feel ten times more rewarding once you do understand it - The trick is to make people like the process of getting where, which DS seems to have accomplished quite well. Crab of Thunder on "The hardcore" http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=4710#post-23867 Mon, 30 May 2011 19:41:40 +0000 Crab of Thunder 23867@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ So long as theres the option to have it challenging, soul crushingly hard and plain sailing then there isn't much of a problem. Everyone can enjoy what they want. For the record, WaW is absolutely ridiculous, nobody moves up until you do meaning you have to kamikaze run into about 3000 bullets and 30 grenades. I gave up half way through the campaign :P. Also Visaris palace in KZ2 is hard even on the lower difficulties, its just relentless. Bluebird on "The hardcore" http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=4710#post-23857 Mon, 30 May 2011 16:46:18 +0000 Bluebird 23857@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ Oh, yes in the beginning DS feels very difficult and that's probably why people often reference it as a difficult title. Once you get used to its mechanic I would call it the good type of challenging. Anyway, all these bullet hell games I would definitely put into the category of games being ridiculously difficult. Then again I can see the appeal of memorising the pattern and finally beating a stage. Not for me, though. OrbitMonkey on "The hardcore" http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=4710#post-23856 Mon, 30 May 2011 16:40:33 +0000 OrbitMonkey 23856@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ I always figured guys who actually call themselves *hardcore* are nothing but internet dweebs, who spend as much time bitching about OP weapons or dev's selling out as they do gaming. Noodlemanny on "The hardcore" http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=4710#post-23855 Mon, 30 May 2011 16:26:02 +0000 Noodlemanny 23855@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ @reask I've never played kz2. I don't actually have a PS3 (planing on buying one soon though) just go round a mates house and play some of his PS3 stuff (like Demons Souls). @Bluebird To be fair I have only played a tiny little bit of Demons Souls. I have no idea what the storyline or stuff like that is like. It's just from the bits I played that's the impression I got. P.S. Partly I used Demons Souls because it was the only recent one I could think of. Bluebird on "The hardcore" http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=4710#post-23854 Mon, 30 May 2011 16:23:23 +0000 Bluebird 23854@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ You haven't played enough Demon's Souls, I think. All enemies have weaknesses, you just have to find out what they are. :) I don't mind a high difficulty as long as it's fair, i.e. dying is my fault and avoidable (see Demon's Souls, for example). And that's all I have to contribute to this topic, since I basically agree with you except on the point of DS being unfair.:) reask on "The hardcore" http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=4710#post-23853 Mon, 30 May 2011 16:11:29 +0000 reask 23853@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ I got as far as visari Palace on elite in kz2 and eventually gave up re trying the downstairs section. I mean it was cruel imo. You got so far and then they came at you from all angles with flame throwers and everything. I like a challenge though and do enjoy getting through a gruelling section. I only tried one hit man and it wasn't my thing. Too much thinking for me. :) Noodlemanny on "The hardcore" http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=4710#post-23851 Mon, 30 May 2011 16:01:08 +0000 Noodlemanny 23851@http://www.vg247.com/forum/ I have resently been posting and talking to friends about the upcoming Hitman and it got me thinking about hardcore and hardcore games. Its weird becuase generally I don't really go for the whole hardcore thing. I normally find it tedious and no fun, I just can't be bothered to do the same thing over and over or retry the same boss 20 times. It just pisses me off. I'd say there's a difference between something being too difficult and being challenging. Too difficult means that you just get stuck on sections and can't get past them. It locks the rest of the game from you and makes you scream at the screen and get generally quite upset. As I said, I don't like this, how can you? It overshadows anything that's good about the game because your concentrating so hard on just getting though it. I don't get any satisfaction out of completing or passing a section simply because instead I'm so relieved when actually get past it, I'm just glad its over. To me it just seems to be similar to self-harm, it just winds you up. And don't bullshit me saying "oh I Neeeever had any problems with this game, it was easy". We've all broken (or almost broken) stuff in fits of rage its like an annoying part of gaming life. Something being challenging on the other hand is good. It means when you get though a game you feel good about it. Its a proper accomplishment without all the hassle. It fleshes out the gameplay and makes you properly explore the mechanics. A game that's too easy means that you stop really focusing on the combat or whatever because you don't have to, it just becomes systematic. But then how do you define a difference between the two? Where's the cut off point for when a game is too hard? I don't think people should remove hard difficulty settings, that would be stupid, but things like veteran on COD WAW were just fucking retarded. Grenades everywhere, constant instant deaths and everyone always shooting at you, instead of the three or four other squad mates around you. Although having said all that I'm a great fan of the hitman series. I enjoy the need to stop and think about your surroundings, targets and arsenal. In fact I even kinda enjoy dying then trying to figure out what to do next time to stop that from happening. I like the limited saves because it meant you had to plan and take steps instead of just saving every time you did something right until you completed the level. I'm not completely sure why I like the hitman series and completed them on their hardest difficulties and yet I get absolutely no pleasure from Demons Souls. From the little I played of it (Demons Souls) I just didn't like it at all. It just felt like all the enemies you fought were overbalanced towards their favour. It felt like the developers had a personal vendetta towards me. It just got tedious after the nteanth time I died. I really don't understand how people found that fun. Anyway I've said most of what I want to say and am pondering what the communities response will be. No doubt later on I'll think of something else to say but for now I'm off to play some Beyond Good and Evil HD.