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Female hostage shown in Rainbow Six Siege E3 demo to engender empathy

Tuesday, 24th June 2014 14:41 GMT By Stephany Nunneley

Ubisoft has said Rainbow Six Siege players will not only be rescuing female hostages but males as well in the game. However, in order to evoke empathy from viewers of the E3 2014 demo, the firm showed a rescue scene involving a woman.

Speaking with RPS, technical artist Oliver Couture said a few people had about the demo and while he didn’t mention specifics, I’m assuming he was asked why Ubisoft chose the ‘woman in need of rescue’ trope instead of showing a male NPC being liberated from his tormentors.

“I know some people asked about the hostage in the demo. I mean, when we did that design we felt a lot of empathy with the hostage,” he told the site. “We wanted people to want to protect her. If the hostage gets killed a team loses the game, so we wanted players to care about the hostage so that’s the design we chose.

“But we’re also gonna have male hostages. That’s part of the plan.”

Considering it was just a game demo, the viewer is unaware of the entire story behind the hostage scene taking place at the home. There is probably a valid reason why a woman was being held hostage instead of a male.

If you watch the demo above, you will hear that the ‘kids room’ is being boarded up. Are the kids behind the door? Are they at their grandmother’s house? Is the woman in the demo divorced? If not, where is the husband? Is he in a position of power? Did the terrorists storm the house and take her hostage as a negotiation tool and plan on making demands of said husband?

We don’t know any of this, and considering how women are portrayed in games (or lacking entirely) is a hot topic right now, it’s not surprising Couture was asked why Ubisoft showed a woman being taken hostage instead of a male. I don’t see an issue in this case, personally. Maybe it would have been better if the demo showed children being held hostage instead. Usually they are a better bargaining chip anyway.

But who knows how that would have played out for Ubisoft. There’s an old trope in movies: viewers do not want to see children in danger/get hurt/die. On occasion when films showed children getting harmed, the audience was shocked. In the Stephen King novel Cujo, the little boy Tad dies of dehydration while trapped in his mother’s car by a rabid St. Bernard. The film version was very different in this respect, and ended with the little boy living. Had this not been changed, movie goers in 1983 would have been outraged. Granted, it happens in movies and television shows quite a bit now, which means times have changed considerably. A horrible death is horrible in any medium, no matter your age or gender.

Mini-rant aside, Ubisoft relied on educing empathy by showing a scared woman. Would the result have been different if a male hostage was used instead? Did people who viewed the demo even feel empathy at all for the hostage in the first place? I know I didn’t. It was a gameplay mechanic and with this mechanic, if the hostage dies, the team loses.

However, Ubisoft has taken the hostage mechanic a bit further, because it wants players to care about the hostage no matter the sex of the victim. In order to herd this, the NPCs will have a ‘personality’.

“We’re trying to define next-gen with the hostage,” said Couture. “We call that a ‘living hostage.’ So she’ll react to explosions and things like that. It’s pretty cool. She’ll cough because of the dirt in the air, she covers herself when there’s shooting – those sorts of things.

“We want the player to be able to move her into different positions, for there to be fluid controls. It’s a balance between player comfort and reality.”

So there you have it. All hostages in general will be frightened, in shock, and flinchy. Whether the player will feel any sort of connection with these hostages, other than the fact they lose if the victim dies, will depend on the player itself regardless of the hostage’s gender.

Rainbow Six Siege is slated for a 2015 release on PC, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.

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60 Comments

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  1. heyvc

    #1 1 month ago
  2. salarta

    *takes out popcorn and munches* Hmm, what excuse are they using this time?

    And now that I’ve read it, the answer is typical and expected. I’m not blaming Couture, I’m blaming Ubisoft itself.

    Even when I was watching E3 live, before the uproar over the Unity characters, the use of a female hostage struck me as the tired old sexist trope put on display to advertise the game. Which, it would appear, is true.

    There isn’t anything wrong with a female hostage, or a woman being scared in this way. I’m not saying that. I’m saying that “women being scared and men rescuing them is oh so manly” is a cliche I’m sick of seeing it. As I’ve said many times, all the strong female characters from the 90s (or earlier, in the case of Samus) have been turned into victims or one or the other of those pieces, usually both.

    But yeah, back to the point. First, women are “on the features list” for Unity but get scrapped because “We don’t have the time and resources.” Then, a female Far Cry 4 character gets the same thing. And now this, which was an obvious problem even during the live event. If it was only one lone team, we could say its a problem with that one lone team’s priorities. But it’s not just one team. It’s three teams, and that means someone at the top is to blame.

    And frankly, I’m not surprised. This is Ubisoft we’re talking about here. I’ve been slowly learning over the past year that upper and mid level figureheads making idiotic decisions is par for the course.

    #2 1 month ago
  3. dsr

    “how women are portrayed in games (or lacking entirely) is a hot topic right now”

    No, its not. Outside of couple of bullshit journos nobody give a single fuck about that.

    Get over it, it wasn’t funny the first time, its not funny now. The whole “hot topic” is full of hot air, and is entirely fabricated by some morons who have nothing else to write about for clicks.

    For fucks sake, people. Stop it.

    #3 1 month ago
  4. The_Red

    Of course, when it comes to showing people being frightened and in terrible situations / distress, Ubi has all the money it needs to create gender equality. Female victims? We can do. Female heros? IMPOSSIBLE!

    #4 1 month ago
  5. FeaturePreacher

    Oh god how I hope we can get back to fighting over resolution and frame rate.

    #5 1 month ago
  6. PSOCecil

    Women are not allowed to be in positions where they must be rescued anymore. I guess most clickbait article writers won’t be happy until the entire Rainbow team is female, all saving some weak, worthless male.

    #6 1 month ago
  7. Stephany Nunneley

    @dsr Yeah it is. All I have to do is look at my RSS feed, so don’t tell me it isn’t. Also, all I said in the article is I didn’t see what the big deal was in this particular case.

    Surely you have noticed – if you visit the site frequently that is – is that I have never published my opinion on this subject at all. The only time I have gotten livid over anything were articles or posts pertaining to trolls in MP games. You know, being rude to women, sending IM’s saying they needed raped because they bested them in CoD, or asking for pictures of their tits just because they can. But these mouth breathers are rude to everyone, maybe not equally (some at least), but I don’t like people being rude for the sake of it just because they can hide behind a computer screen.

    #7 1 month ago
  8. Legendaryboss

    And part 7 or 8, I lost count. I want women represented in game! No I want to women to be a hero, not a women! Again need i remind all you of Assassin’s Creed Liberation? Females get represented, so quit the bullshit.

    #8 1 month ago
  9. Dark

    *grabs popcorn*

    #9 1 month ago
  10. Legendaryboss

    @Legendaryboss Edit: i meant not a victim, re: not a women!

    #10 1 month ago
  11. AmiralPatate

    “But we’re also gonna have male hostages”

    Wouldn’t that double the work?

    #11 1 month ago
  12. OrbitMonkey

    Good lord Ubi need to hire a semi-intelligent PR rep to knock these softballs off the pitch.

    Watching these socially retatded Devs get strike after strike when facing these self-important journo’s is painfull.

    “Why did you use a female?”

    “Oh, thats a really exciting scene where your raiding a family home, really dynamic. We wanted to take the fight into peoples homes y’know?”

    Piss of piss.

    #12 1 month ago
  13. YoungZer0

    @Stephany Nunneley

    Erm, isn’t that whole “I raped you” thing something american kids do nowadays? I mean don’t they say this to everyone, not specifically targeting women?

    Anyway, I remember reading a study that women and men show more empathy and compassion towards women than they do towards men? I think there’s even a word for it. I think they were fight on the money with this one.

    But I guess – yawn – someone had to take offense to that as well.

    #13 1 month ago
  14. OrbitMonkey

    *piece of piss

    Good lord can we bring back edit buttons?

    #14 1 month ago
  15. Rosseu

    Would have been better if the hostage was a male

    #15 1 month ago
  16. Panthro

    Getting reeeeaaally tired of your shit VG247.

    #16 1 month ago
  17. Gekidami

    We really shouldn’t be getting on Stephany’s case here, she’s actually reasonable and calm. If Brenna wrote this she’d most likely be calling for the devs heads, calling them rapists and blaming “The Patriarchy”. Then she’d lock the comments.

    #17 1 month ago
  18. Dragon

    Off topic maybe, but what is a “hot topic” anyway? Is it the topic which is focused on by media (in some cases too much), or the topic that is really bubbling in society? In recent days, I have seen a lot of “hot topics” being nothing more than media creating bubble hijacked by a particular activist group/ people with particular mentality.

    That said,I must say that I, and I am assuming many here too, dont let themselves get affected by what they see in video games, however like all media, they certainly do have a capacity to do social conditioning toward tropes.

    So, really, what is the expectation of these said people who have one or other issue with a video game (gender equality, anti-nudity, animal rights, etc. etc.). Is every video game supposed to portray a world of utopian equality that will probably never happen in real world?
    I don’t know the correct answer. I play games to have a good experience and have fun, not feeling overly flustered at social commentary within to flow tons of virtual ink.

    #18 1 month ago
  19. salarta

    @dsr “No, its not. Outside of couple of bullshit journos nobody give a single fuck about that.”

    Except you’re completely, utterly wrong and have just demonstrated you have no idea what you’re talking about.

    @FeaturePreacher … So arguing about inane and entirely pointless fluff is more important than bigger issues like gender representation? Of course, if you’re saying this shouldn’t be a thing for argument and most people should agree that Ubisoft needs to change, I’d agree with you.

    #19 1 month ago
  20. polygem

    “how women are portrayed in games (or lacking entirely) is a hot topic right now”

    it is THE topic right now.

    this debate is overdue. there´s a lot of internet drama involved in both camps but that doesn´t matter – it´s just the internet. the result of the debate will be that devs and pubs will care much more about these issues in the future and that would be a big achievement.

    #20 1 month ago
  21. salarta

    @Gekidami Ah, wild exaggeration! I know that card. It’s a very absurd card. I just wish every person upset with complaints about representation of women in video games could stop fantasizing about raping women and kicking puppies long enough to think about what others have to say!

    Since I’ve run into a fair share of people that are incapable of picking up hints, note that I’m mocking the use of wild exaggeration, not actually trying to use it in any serious manner.

    I normally don’t condone locking down comments on an article, because it’s important for people to discuss issues intelligently and reach a real understanding, but I would have to make an exception here for some of the articles she writes. A lot of the people that choose to comment on her articles are more interested in acting like assholes, especially toward Brenna, to get their way than in having a real dialogue about an important social issue.

    You know what? I want to see a video game site have a man write an article like one of Brenna’s. Then, I want to see how much hatred it spawns, and see if it’s in any way comparable. Because between Brenna and Anita Sarkeesian, it looks to me like the targets are disproportionately women that decide to stand up for their own gender, while the times I’ve seen men stick up for women, it’s passed by like nothing.

    #21 1 month ago
  22. Not The Eyes

    @salarta Go to Polygon – that’s site is full of men professionally taking umbrage and making the same ridiculous and uninformed arguments as Brenna. And it has about the equal amount of criticism, except the delete most of it, constructive or not, because the mods have are equally zealous.

    #22 1 month ago
  23. fearmonkey

    Getting upset about this is just completely stupid….Rainbow six is going to be mainly played by males, I hate to say it but it’s true. Males have a soft spot for damsels in distress, I hate to say it but it’s true. I will completely admit that when playing a game, I would care more about saving a female hostage or a child than a male adult. Might not be politcally correct to say that, but it’s true. What happened to the idea of Chilvary? If we were on the Titanic today, would people be all mad and upset that women and children got on the lifeboats first? Would women be giving up their lifeboat seats because it’s a stereotype? I doub’t it.

    Personally, I love a game where Chilvary isnt dead, but maybe i’m just old fashioned and a romantic, something that seems to be dying in todays PC world.

    #23 1 month ago
  24. fearmonkey

    @FeaturePreacher – Well, will we be saving damsels in distress at 720p on Xbox One and 900p or 1080p on PS4? Will the damsels be more jaggy on the xbox one?

    lol..i kid…i kid..

    #24 1 month ago
  25. fearmonkey

    @salarta ” I just wish every person upset with complaints about representation of women in video games could stop fantasizing about raping women and kicking puppies long enough to think about what others have to say!”

    I completely understand why women have complaints on how their gender is treated in video games, the over the top male fantasy bimbo that started from comic books look for one. However, wouldnt it be true that games always feature these he-man beefcake extremely macho types as well? I tend to play female characters more than males in games because I hate playing as that beefcake macho male guy all the time, who do I complain to? It’s refreshing when games feature normal looking men and women, but very few do.
    I played a femshep because Jennifer Hale was the better Actor, and seemed to be a regular person much more so than the dry macho space marine that was the male shep, but most people played that male shep. The reason why is that males still dominate gameplaying,
    it’s getting better though, as women get more and more into gaming and become involved in development themselves.

    #25 1 month ago
  26. Dragon

    “I just wish every person upset with complaints about representation of women in video games could stop fantasizing about raping women and kicking puppies long enough to think about what others have to say!”

    I said this long ago that you were a hypocrite, in absolute true sense of the word. However, I cannot even fathom that you are so ignorant of yourself so as to make that statement. As someone who writes fanfics containing rape, incest and other things like that, on what grounds do you feel like chiding others?

    #26 1 month ago
  27. salarta

    Aaaaand we have one comment by someone that appears to have deliberately ignored the second paragraph of my prior comment out of desperation for a chance to complain! It’s sad how predictable that was.

    @fearmonkey I think a lot of people chose the male Shepard either because it’s treated as the default, or alternately, because it’s the sex of the player. I played as a male Shepard when I played.

    #27 1 month ago
  28. Spider Law

    I too am tired of all this. But at the same time, we dont have to click this article nor do we have to pay any attention to things we dont care about until it actually affects us in anyway. Whatever though. Let the babies cry and moan. Female or male hostage, couldnt care less. Just let me shoot the shit out of shit.

    @Gekidami +1

    #28 1 month ago
  29. Dragon

    No wonder, the guy still turns a blind eye towards his own blatant hypocrisy and still has the chutzpah of calling out others.
    I think being a politician would suit you very well in my humble opinion.

    #29 1 month ago
  30. silkvg247

    “We want the player to be able to move her into different positions,”

    Fnar fnar :p

    No issues with any of this, both genders can be hostages thus, equality. TADAAA!
    I’m guessing the actual players can only be male though, but oh well, getting used to it!

    #30 1 month ago
  31. Stephany Nunneley

    @Spider Law “But at the same time, we don’t have to click this article…”

    ummm….. like Gek pretty much said, I was actually taking up for Ubi here. Dunno why some of you think I wasn’t.

    #31 1 month ago
  32. salarta

    @Stephany Nunneley There are a few possible reasons I can think of for that, but one stands out as the most likely cause. A lot of people probably didn’t even read the article. They saw its title and rushed to the comments, eager to assume the worst.

    Of course, this isn’t judging people that may not have read the article and aren’t saying anything about what the article says, but are responding to comments such as mine.

    #32 1 month ago
  33. Dragon

    @Stephany Nunneley ,
    Just to be clear, I am on Geks side regarding this article being more reasonable than most. I am just not sure whether “hot topic” is anything else rather than a temporary flavour of the day created by media.

    #33 1 month ago
  34. fearmonkey

    @Stephany Nunneley – I didn’t think you were anything but neutral actually, I was more or less commenting on the comments of others. Just wanted to make sure you know I was not aiming my comments your way :)

    #34 1 month ago
  35. TheWulf

    Welp. Machismo-laden men in one corner, screaming damsels in the other, there’s absolutely no way in hell they could make this sound good. This was one for the sexist extroverts, who’d never considered how women might actually feel about this.

    On a tangential note, I’m reminded of New Vegas and how it showed an equal opportunity attitude in the NCR. But then one modder decided that this wasn’t at all acceptable, so they decided to remove almost all of the women from the service. Does this story have a happy end? Yes, yes it does. The mod was horrendously broken and resulted in many incredibly corrupted saves, there was oh so much delicious raging over this. He tried to save face by attempting to fix it, but that made it worse>/i>.

    That mod now lies in obscurity somewhere on the New Vegas Nexus.

    But, yeah, that kind of person really doesn’t have a particularly human view of women, they see them more as livestock, as inferior creatures to toil in kitchens and whatnot. And as much as I wished that were just an Internet meme, I’ve met far too many people with that attitude to think that it’s anything other than true. Even some of those commenting on VG24/7 articles seem to have similar views.

    Of course, the irony isn’t lost on me, here. I mean, The Great White Herd looking at women as livestock. In other words, the livestock projecting themselves onto beings that actually aren’t. You know?

    @2

    Ubisoft is insistent on holding the title of one of the most low brow, openly sexist publishers out there. Whatever shifts the boxes, I guess, at the expense of their own reputation. This doesn’t surprise me too much. Capitalism!

    @3

    Wahhh! Wahhh! Weh! I’m a man of The Great White Herd and people aren’t talking about how fantastic I am, or about how victimised I am despite how fantastic I am. For fuck’s sake, stop talking about those inferior women and talk about me! Me! Meeee! WEH! WAAAAHHHHH!!!!

    I’ll never understand the extroverts of The Great White Herd. They act as though they have nothing, despite having it all.

    @4

    Omigosh. What a burn. That is so apt! I dig you, Red. Don’t ever stop being you.

    Not ever.

    That just really illustrates, so succinctly, what’s wrong with them. Today, you’re my hero.

    @5

    Why??? Why would you EVER want that?!

    @6

    See #4.

    It’s all men rescuing women at the moment, you sanctimonious dickhead. If games occasionally did have women rescuing a guy, no one would be complaining. I just don’t understand The Great White Herd, how are you this stupid?

    People are complaining because that’s NOT happening, because it’s all so one-sided.

    Hello? Hello?? *KNOCK KNOCK* Is there anyone inside of that thick skull? More and more, extroverts of The Great White Herd are looking to be less human, and more like diseased mould in human form. You’re too inhumane to be human.

    @7

    I don’t like people being rude for the sake of it just because they can hide behind a computer screen.

    I can be a nihilist, so I expect the worst, as such I’m always rude to their type — whether online or off. The thing is is that they’re being oppressive, and I think that provides their opposition with valid reason enough to be rude to them, to insult them, and to be validly blunt, because it’s the only thing that makes them think.

    An appeal to a person’s better nature is often a fallacy, because many such privileged types don’t actually have a better nature. You aren’t born with a better nature, Steph, it’s ingrained as you age through horrible experiences. If you’ve experienced discrimination and persecution, and you’ve seen other people (like these mindless extroverts) obeying their instincts and being greedy, opportunistic, dominant, eugenic, divisive, and exclusive, you think to yourself… well…

    I don’t want to be like them. And I’m never going to respect them, because they don’t respect me.

    Steph, maybe this is hard for you to understand, but I’m a disabled, gay person. Throughout my life I’ve received no end of shit for being disabled, and for being gay. Maybe you’ve been lucky, maybe you either don’t care about being treated as a lesser human being, or maybe you live in an area where that just doesn’t happen. In either case, you may not have felt the bite of discrimination as hard as some others.

    And for those who have felt the sting of it, we owe NOTHING to the entitled brats who’re always doing the bullying and the hoarding.

    I’m sorry Steph. I don’t want to hurt your feelings. But the only way you can think like you do is if you’ve never actually experienced discrimination in your life, or if you’ve never actually realised you’ve been discriminated against.

    For those of us who have? It’s been kind of a shitty life.

    And I’ll be damned if I’m going to use my finest eloquence to appease pond scum who’ve done nothing but exercise their privilege over what they perceive to be lesser creatures. That’s not going to happen. They’re going to feel discrimination and persecution from me, I’m going to make them think ANY way I can.

    They’re selfish, abominable, inhumane, and monstrous. I don’t tolerate that.

    @8

    Another of The Great White Herd to contend with, and as thick as any other!

    Hey, remember when I pointed out to you that Liberation was a budget game? And remember how I said that you seem to think that it’s okay to make women second class citizens who only belong in budget games?

    And yet you keep trotting out Liberation, like a regular old thicky.

    @13

    Where did I put that bit of text?

    Oh! Here it is…

    Wahhh! Wahhh! Weh! I’m a man of The Great White Herd and people aren’t talking about how fantastic I am, or about how victimised I am despite how fantastic I am. For fuck’s sake, stop talking about those inferior women and talk about me! Me! Meeee! WEH! WAAAAHHHHH!!!!

    :P

    It continues to be applicable!! I’m saving that one under GreatWhiteHerd.txt.

    @17

    What? What the fuck are you even on? I know you’re smoking the white male privilege pipe pretty hard, considering that you’re a superior being and all, but when has Brenna EVER locked the comments?!

    I mean, I know the rest of it is horseshit, but it’s hopefully obvious horseshit. The locking thing might be believed by newcomers, though, who could be gullible enough to be taken in by your verbal diarrhoea. They might not realise you’re just wildly fabricating things at this point. Of course, everyone with an ounce of intellect is going to call you on it, of course, and make you look even more stupid than you usually do.

    Geez. You poor, poor, abused little straight, white man. What a donkey.

    Also, view the reply to #13, it might help get through your immense thick-headedness.

    @18

    This hot topic is a social issue, it’s being talked about by journalists and I’ve seen it all over Tumblr. So, yeah, I think that’s what a ‘hot topic’ is. It’s something that everyone with the mind to do so is actually talking about.

    Also, having a representation of equality isn’t about utopias, you facetious, sneering caricature! It just means that occasionally the women save the men, rather than it being a 99:1 balance where the heroes are all men. In fact, just a representation of marginalised concerns in general. 99 per cent of games feature straight, white men, so all you’d have to do is put a marginalised concern occasionally in his place.

    But that would be theft of ice cream, wouldn’t it?

    @21

    I wish I could be as polite as you. But I’ve experienced too much pain at the hands of the sort of genetic waste material we see here to even bother. I salute you. I just wonder how bad your urge to vomit is right now, just reading their words.

    I really feel for you, because I’ve been in a similar position to you. It’s made me hard, and cold, and hateful of their particular breed. Like I said, to me, they’re little more than diseased mould in human form. You treat them with more dignity than they deserve.

    Because between Brenna and Anita Sarkeesian, it looks to me like the targets are disproportionately women that decide to stand up for their own gender, while the times I’ve seen men stick up for women, it’s passed by like nothing.

    It’s because they’re afraid of someone having greater intellect than them. They’re afraid of women. They are TERRIFIED of intelligent women. When a man talks about it, they figure that the inferior woman is too dumb to talk about this for herself (this is where Steph is doing you and Brenna a disservice), so it’s just another man doing some kind of alpha mating dance to win over the addle-brained women.

    But when a woman talks about her own rights, and they see the woman is more intelligent than they are, it scares the living shit out of them. Because it means that the power they’ve been able to hang on to — despite having the average intellect of a potted plant — might disappear into the aether.

    They’re scared of losing their thrones, because they know that their superiority is entirely fake. They know it. And it chills them to the bone.

    And now, confronted with beings who’re actually more intelligent than they are, they’re putting on numerous shows to try and keep their position of power. They’re trying manipulation, by acting out the legend of the persecuted white guy, or they’re trying to put on as dominant a show as possible to shut you down.

    How do I know this?

    It’s not only women who get this shit. It’s other ethnicities, other sexualities, disabled people, introverts, and anyone who doesn’t fit their status quo.

    To my mind… they’re all George W. Bush waiting to happen, were they actually presented with that degree of power. They’d probably oppress women, kill disliked ethnicities in needless war, and generally screw the world up. Which… is exactly what right wing politicians have been trying to do! Look at that.

    They’re not smart, you are. And they know you’re smart enough to see right through their acts, their displays, their manipulations.

    And, yeah, it scares them.

    Because they’re terrified little cave men.

    @23

    Wow. The Great White Herd sure knows how to pick ‘em. You’re deranged. Touched in the head.

    Rainbow six is going to be mainly played by males, I hate to say it but it’s true.

    Here we go…

    [citation needed]

    Your arse is not a valid source of citation.

    How do you know what people like you do or do not want to play?

    Males have a soft spot for damsels in distress, I hate to say it but it’s true.

    Uh. What? Last I checked, I have a dangler between my legs and I don’t have a damsel fetish. That’s just you, being fucked up. Were I not here to bash some sense into heads like yours, I’d just be backing away slowly.

    What happened to the idea of Chilvary?

    Chivalry is a chauvinistic ideal propagated by The Great White Herd, because they believe women to be inferior creatures who can’t take care of themselves. It’s a horrible thing that needed to die centuries ago.

    Would women be giving up their lifeboat seats because it’s a stereotype? I doub’t it.

    Wow, you are so, so fucked in the head. It’s not even funny. Are you even paying attention to what you’re saying? You just said that women don’t have the capacity to be heroic. I… don’t even. Look, Great White Herd! This is you! This is what you are when you’re not hiding behind fakery. This is how fucked up you are.

    I actually feel a little ill! You don’t think that there are women out there, every day, responsible for acts of great heroism? You very selectively read the news, don’t you?

    You also put a hyphen in doubt. I’m sorry, but that goes beyond bad grammar. Really, your thickness is showing.

    [...] maybe i’m just old fashioned and a romantic [...]

    An old-fashioned, regressive, thuggish cave man? Sure!

    Romantic? You think THAT is what romance is?! Now I have to really suggest you see a shrink, also, you need to understand that that’s far from a romantic notion. That’s a fetish, you depraved little toad.

    @25

    Not a valid comparison. For every one guy that might be politely raped in a comic book, there are ten thousand women that are beaten, brainwashed, sexually abused, and worse. So… don’t even.

    I’ve read comic books, until I got sick of that shit. This is why I butted heads with salarta once (and I still feel bad about that). I objected to her liking Polaris, because Polaris was something of a punching bag for Marvel for quite some time. I can’t help liking super heroes, but I’m going to distance myself from any screwed up writer who even goes there. I refuse, for example, to buy anything written by Brian Michael Bendis.

    Would you like me to show you why? Here’s a small sample:

    http://media.tumblr.com/96b5824008c8eb859983c4fc0ede8cb6/tumblr_inline_n2yybjHzxN1sbxb84.jpg

    http://media.tumblr.com/96b5824008c8eb859983c4fc0ede8cb6/tumblr_inline_n2yybjHzxN1sbxb84.jpg

    http://media.tumblr.com/f5d9690fa5234b5739f260b560eb62c1/tumblr_inline_n3w46hNfMU1sbxb84.jpg

    http://media.tumblr.com/d2ad6fc2223294eb0c75f9e7a8ceeef1/tumblr_inline_n3w51mXHNS1sbxb84.jpg

    http://media.tumblr.com/3e162907a78e34efdbc414e3f1eede17/tumblr_inline_n3w52sInjV1sbxb84.jpg

    http://media.tumblr.com/f5d9690fa5234b5739f260b560eb62c1/tumblr_inline_n3w46hNfMU1sbxb84.jpg

    http://media.tumblr.com/d2ad6fc2223294eb0c75f9e7a8ceeef1/tumblr_inline_n3w51mXHNS1sbxb84.jpg

    http://media.tumblr.com/3e162907a78e34efdbc414e3f1eede17/tumblr_inline_n3w52sInjV1sbxb84.jpg

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bdVR-JIDi2g/RcuMPXVjVTI/AAAAAAAAAOY/Os4AqmpGBrk/s400/untilted-4.jpg

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bdVR-JIDi2g/RcuMF3VjVSI/AAAAAAAAAOQ/s5BOR40nCyU/s400/untilted-5final.jpg

    So don’t even. Okay?

    @28

    Well, you’re an idiot, but at least you’re an honest idiot? I think I can sort of respect that, except for the idiot part, at least.

    @29

    Maybe salarta is simply refusing to be taken in by your bullshit? A response isn’t owed to you by anyone, you know? I know that, as part of The Great White Herd, you believe you’re owed everything… but reality disagrees.

    I’ll give you one, though! I’ll call you a blistering idiot, if you like! Does that help with your sense of entitlement? You’ve had a reply. There, there. *pat pat.*

    And that’s the comments on the page thus far. So I’ll leave it at that. That’s enough idiots persecuted for their Great White Idiocy for today, I think! But I’ll be here tomorrow, and every day after, for as long as VG24/7 will have me. Because someone needs to point out how horrifically awful The Great White Herd is.

    #35 1 month ago
  36. TheWulf

    Poop, I actually doubled the links accidentally, that’ll teach me not to use an extension to gather links. But yes, the point still stands about how women are treated in comic books. If any proof needs to be given as to how diseased, how corrupt, and how sickening The Great White Herd is, just click the links in my post.

    #36 1 month ago
  37. fearmonkey

    @TheWulf – “You don’t think that there are women out there, every day, responsible for acts of great heroism? ”

    I do indeed, they are called Moms :)

    Also, Sticks and Stones may break my bones…but your insane trollish crazed rantings will never hurt me…..lol.

    #37 1 month ago
  38. Dragon

    @fearmonkey,
    I doubt anyone can feel hurt with such rants, since they are just that, rants. However, I do feel pity for him after knowing his condition, especially as ranting on net probably helps him cool down irl.

    #38 1 month ago
  39. DarkElfa

    @Dragon I don’t. Wulf is consistently self-righteous, insulting and truculent. I understand they have issues, but so do a lot of people and that doesn’t cover being an ass hat. Comment sections like these are about discussion and opinions and if you want to have a true discussion, you don’t start out by telling everyone they are blatantly wrong and caveman stupid because that will only foster argument instead of discussion and people will stop listening.

    #39 1 month ago
  40. salarta

    @TheWulf I don’t always reply to you because you have incredibly long posts that I don’t really feel up for reading through all the way, but I did read bits and pieces this time, mainly the parts involving me.

    First, I’m male. :P

    Second, I know I could be a lot more vicious, but I don’t go very far with it mainly for myself. I can be a jerk at times, and I’m not always happy about being one when I am, but it’s usually for a good reason. To be completely, bluntly honest, I think many of the people opposed to better treatment of women in games simply haven’t bothered to look at things outside their own perspectives. It’s harder to go after someone in that situation.

    Third and final, you’re pretty accurate on the last part. There are various situations where I generally stop responding to someone, but the most common is if they become obsessed with attacking me personally. By that point, they’re wasting time out of their lives because… some guy on the internet said things they don’t like? When they’re blinded by hatred, nothing I say to them matters. There is absolutely no possible scenario where my replying to them is a good thing for anyone, so as a general rule, I don’t feed their hatred with an answer. Some people realize how pointless and self-defeating this is on their own, and they learn from it and move on. Others never figure it out.

    #40 1 month ago
  41. Legendaryboss

    Not crafting a response just for it to be ignored because TheWulf has spoken.

    #41 1 month ago
  42. DarkElfa

    @salarta I’ve never had any issue with your discussion abilities Salarta. We may occasionally disagree but I’ve always found you to be gregarious, polite and intelligent.

    #42 1 month ago
  43. TheWulf

    Just read a startling bit of wisdom from Leigh Alexander.

    When you want to make a woman into a hero, you hurt her first. When you want to make a man into a hero, you hurt… also a woman first.

    So, so true. And that’s at the core of the problem, isn’t it?

    #43 1 month ago
  44. OrbitMonkey

    ^ Tell that to Peter Parker.

    #44 1 month ago
  45. salarta

    @DarkElfa Thanks. :) I’m pretty sure I’ve been a jerk to you at one point too, but I can’t remember exactly when that was. Sometimes I get carried away.

    #45 1 month ago
  46. DarkElfa

    @TheWulf You do realize you just promoted a stereotype??

    #46 4 weeks ago
  47. DarkElfa

    @salarta Meh, I don’t count jerkishness against people online. We all get carried away by the warm embrace of anonymity.

    #47 4 weeks ago
  48. salarta

    @DarkElfa I will, but only if it’s part of a whole where they’re consistently jerkish AND it’s paired with them deliberately being malicious and unreasonable. One guy I had to deal with on another site would never once admit he could be wrong about anything, to the point where he started insulting everything I liked while making up really contrived excuses to explain how he was supposedly right with not one flaw to be found. That doesn’t exactly make a person come off as knowledgeable.

    #48 4 weeks ago
  49. DarkElfa

    @salarta I know people see me on the wrong side of this issue but I’m very much not. Let me ask you this, have you ever seen some person at the store complain about the cost of food and become angry because on the other side of the world people are literally starving to death?

    That’s my position here. I get the anger about all this, I just can’t take it seriously when women on this planet are still treated as literal property. It’s like her, I know this is important, but lets bring the fridge in the house and turn it on before we start putting food in it. Sure, those issues are far away and in another country but that is where our energy so badly needs to be. I just feel like too much of a first world problem meme to start arguing about virtual injustice before we solve the real world injustice.

    Yes, virtual injustice is bad and it needs to change but nobody is actually being harmed or deprived by games but real women, right now, are being harmed and deprived of freedom and rights. Shouldn’t all of our focus be there? You may say that we can do both but spending time on one takes that effort away from the other. So yes, I get angry sometimes when I see these debates and complaints because it feels almost surreal.

    #49 4 weeks ago
  50. 2021vince

    Good read but I hate that some asshole has to feel like there helping these female activist but they aren’t all they are doing is making there cause mundane and non-relevant OK this game showed a female in danger so wat ac:unity doesn’t have a playable women so wat next I’ll be seeing rants about females not being in gay porn

    #50 4 weeks ago
  51. FeaturePreacher

    @salarta I think resolution and frame rate are bigger issues than this tired b.s. of victim mongering.

    With the whole victim mongering crap, one side is going to say they’re right and vilify the other and vice versa. It’s a tired and predictable exercise that doesn’t clarify anything or change anything. Just watch when some chick is going to get upset about GTA 5 all over again for the same reasons as they’ll get upset at Mortal Combat X or MGS 5.

    At least with resolution and frame rate, there’s fact. There’s concrete evidence. There’s a lot less emotional b.s. And at the end of the day, we get closer and closer to a correct answer.

    #51 4 weeks ago
  52. Not The Eyes

    So many people so very mad at literally nothing. TheWulf must have spent 30 minutes or more whining. lol. It’s video games.

    There are plenty of video games with women who are protagonists and plenty of video games where you have to save men in captivity. Move on.

    #52 4 weeks ago
  53. Stephany Nunneley

    @TheWulf First off, how dare you. I mean really. You have no idea how I feel about misogyny, sexism, women being treated as commodities instead of equals, the rampant finger pointing at rape victims by by defense attorneys, how girls are treated in poverty stricken nations, or getting passed up for a promotion over lacking a penis.

    Just because I am not vocal in my opinions does not mean I do not have a valid feeling on the matter. Why In this particular case, I did not think it was a big deal? Know why? Because it was A DEMO. We don’t know the fully story behind the rescue mission so there was no need to toss around tropes without knowledge of the scene. That is all.

    As far as the whole AC Unity debacle? I was more irritated with the fact Ubi (a very rich publisher) used one of the most inane excuses I have ever heard when it said it didn’t have the “resources” available to create a female co-op character. If they didn’t want the option, have the testicular fortitude to stand behind your decision no matter the flack caused and don’t wave your hand dismissively when people call you out on the bullshit. That is what really bothered me on that particular subject.

    Now. As far as your comment claiming “the only way you can think like you do is if you’ve never actually experienced discrimination in your life, or if you’ve never actually realised you’ve been discriminated against” is concerned: yes. Yes I have.

    I have been passed over for jobs more than once for a male who had less experience than me. Had less dedication than me. I have watched men who call in sick more often than they show up at work get raises while I was still making starting salary. I (and two other ladies working at the bank vying for the same job) was once passed over for a transfer to another department after having worked my ass off at the place for five years for a walk-in with ZERO experience just because she did modeling ads for the local department store chain. No shit. I apparently wasn’t “pretty enough” and didn’t make the branch manager’s pants tickle in his special area. If that is not sexism, how’s this:

    I grew up in the south. It is not known as the most enlightened place in the US (it’s MUCH better now in some respects esp where I live). Most “good old boys” I went to high school with wanted to grow up and marry a woman who they could keep “barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen” while they go fishing or deer hunting or invite their fast ass buddies over to watch football on Sundays to swill cheap beer while the little lady cooks fried chicken for her man and his pals and tries to wrangle the children.

    Or you had the jocks who thought women were put on earth to be objectified and passed around at parties. I could tell you some horror stories in that respect. Do you know what it is like for many men you meet to not make eye contact with you? To be looking at your breasts the entire time? I’m not talking about some drunken lout at a club either. I’m talking about: your boss, the mechanic working on your car, the guy interviewing you for a job, the cop standing in line at the local grocery store, the pastor next door, the game developer you interviewed. Is that not being objectified? Isn’t being objectified part and parcel with sexism?

    Do you know how many times I have doubted myself because of my gender? Thinking I would have gotten a lot further in life than I am now if I sported a twig and berries? Do you know how many times I think to myself if I had only showed more cleavage I would have gotten noticed more? Or maybe I could have gotten further in THIS career if I posed half naked with a gaming console on my personal blog? Do you not see how women are constantly have to doubt our choices? That being intelligent is the reason for having a successful career – not sleeping our way to the top like some asinine people snicker behind our backs? Why we have to apologize for being witty, having an opinion or if we are one of the ‘lucky ones’ attractive?

    Don’t assume that just because I am the shy, easy going quiet type that I don’t have an opinion and that I have never faced sexism or discrimination, especially when you only know me as a name on a computer screen.

    #53 4 weeks ago
  54. OrbitMonkey

    ^ Its a fooking sad day when Nunners (new nickname) goes full Wulf :(

    Though its aimed at Wulfie, so now i’m conflicted…

    #54 4 weeks ago
  55. salarta

    @Stephany Nunneley Wow, that’s a lot of details I never expected I would find out about you, Stephany.

    Before I say anything, I want to state that if anything gets deleted of all this, feel free to delete this comment too. I’ll completely understand.

    Now then, I’m really sorry about all the things you’ve been put through. I know your only goal was to rebuke TheWulf for making major assumptions about you with nothing to back them, you weren’t seeking comments like mine. You might not even want them. But I just feel I need to say that I’m glad you’ve overcome those parts of your past, I’m glad you’re staying strong in the face of those things when they happen, and I’m glad that you’re you. You’ve always come across to me as a really cool person.

    I don’t know how you’ll feel about that, and I’m not expecting a reply of any sort. I just hope for the best for you. Keep on being your cool self, Steph. :)

    #55 4 weeks ago
  56. Gekidami

    @TheWulf
    Fuck you:
    http://www.vg247.com/2014/02/17/deep-down-the-rabbit-hole-of-ingrained-games-industry-sexism/
    Oh hey, now look looks stupid? (hint: same person as always = Wulf).

    BTW Stephany, you wont get a response, he wont even read what you just said. Wulf comes in, dumps his shit generalising everyone with labels, telling them how superior he is, then he bolts, afraid of the criticism.

    #56 4 weeks ago
  57. Gekidami

    @Stephany Nunneley
    “ummm….. like Gek pretty much said, I was actually taking up for Ubi here. Dunno why some of you think I wasn’t.”
    Probably because most people just saw the title and assumed. Cant really blame them the way this site has been lately.

    #57 4 weeks ago
  58. Game Hunter

    Well I guess I was right about Steph being the most logical journalist on this site.instead of going in Rage Mode like Brenna, she kept her cool and looked at this topic reasonably. Seriously, I love Steph and Dave,Cuz they got the best opinion pieces I’ve ever seen.

    #58 4 weeks ago
  59. Dragon

    @DarkElfa ,
    You are entitled for your view. Its just that I don’t care about rants anymore. And as I said, I do really feel pity for such a guy. Its quite easy to see he tries to vent his frustration about his condition irl by ranting here , and his has got waaaay too much time than anyone else here.
    Let the dogs bark, or something like that.

    #59 4 weeks ago
  60. Gheritt White

    Just wanted to chime and quickly say that being a gay disabled person doesn’t preclude you from being and is no excuse for behaving like a dickhead.

    #60 4 weeks ago