Nintendo “steadfastly refuse” to accept that Wii U is not interesting to consumers, says Pachter

Tuesday, 3rd December 2013 12:49 GMT By Dave Cook

Nintendo is likely to miss out on its projected ¥100 billion profit projection for the financial year, according to analysts. In addition, Wedbush Morgan’s Michael Pachter has stressed that he company “steadfastly refuse” to believe that the Wii U is in a tight spot.

We reported on Nintendo’s Q3 financials in October. Despite only selling 300,000 Wii U consoles worldwide, company president Satoru Iwata refrained from lowering his ¥100 billion profit forecast.

Now, a Bloomberg report suggests that the launch of PS4 and Xbox One, along with the migration to smartphone and tablet play is detracting interest away from Wii U.

The site adds that analysts are getting itchy feet over the matter, with average sales predictions of ¥57 billion profts and year-end Wii U sales of 6.2 million units. The console released Christmas 2012, with Iwata promising year-end sales of 9 million consoles.

Pachter himself predicted 6 million Wii U sales for the year, and added in an email statement, “[Nintendo] steadfastly refuse to consider that the product is not interesting to consumers. They will fail to hit 9 million, and they will likely miss their profit goals.”

The report finds that 460,000 Wii U machines were sold across six month period ended September 30.

What’s your take on Nintendo’s situation?

Via IGN.



  1. Young Link

    Someday people will wake up and realize that graphic improvement doesn´t make a “next gen”. It does the games. And while you are playing the same bullshit over 2 generations, there will be a point when you will need to stop playing repetitive games and think.

    I am not sure if people will, but history will know: To push a new generation means to build a different understanding of what electronic entertainment is, tu push the boundaries of playing. And Nintendo is the only one who did it so far.

    #1 1 year ago
  2. Dave Cook

    @1 “same bullshit over 2 generations”

    Nintendo constantly re-packages the same template over and over. For the record I’m NOT saying games like Zelda and Mario are bad AT ALL (note the capital letters), but to say Nintendo doesn’t re-use templates – no matter how good those games may be – is just ludicrous.

    Again, not saying these games are bad AT ALL, before I’m nailed to a cross made of Wiimotes.

    #2 1 year ago
  3. Joe Musashi

    Nice troll-bait article, Dave. You hater.


    #3 1 year ago
  4. mistermogul

    “Again, not saying these games are bad AT ALL, before I’m nailed to a cross made of Wiimotes.”

    lol! You’re lucky I’ve run out of nails! ;)

    #4 1 year ago
  5. Dave Cook

    @3 Totally.

    #5 1 year ago
  6. Dave Cook

    @4 :P

    Honestly, Super Mario 3D World is bloody brilliant. Really enjoyed it.

    #6 1 year ago
  7. maxroy

    @2 Nintendo works with well with using the familiar and while people will try to stay that this is an overall bad move, they don’t end up doing it like the other guys. I think Nintendos greatest strength has always been that they don’t rely on the tools found mainstream engines that were rampant on the PS3/360.

    You can try to deny it but even now Nintendo is still bringing new ideas to the table that the other two can’t help but replicate, be it the last gen rush for motion control or the next gen rush of incorporating second screen experiences.

    Plus as a little added bonus they rarely ship a game that’s riddled with bugs, there have been some weird cases with things like the Other M, Skyward Sword niche cases but the teams are great at meeting their deadlines (months in advance it seems looking at how early the press gets their review copies).

    #7 1 year ago
  8. Kabby

    The tablet controller is too expensive and was a bad idea. The money spent on both its hardware and development should have been spent on the innards of the WiiU.

    #8 1 year ago
  9. Young Link


    Pick up last 4 Assassin´s Creed or even Halo games and point out the main changes between them. Do the same with the last 4 Zelda (HD versions don´t count) or last 4 main Mario.

    Let me know.

    #9 1 year ago
  10. Dave Cook

    @9 Assassin’s Creed 4 is now fully open world, no seques, offers limitless exploration over land and sea within that sandbox, changes the modern day protagonist and story-line and throws in a ton of new mechanics.

    Halo, well I’m not a Halo fan, but Halo 4 added a new setting, new set of enemies, a new weapon set, changed multiplayer progresion (for the worst, I think) and a new darker tone.

    Mario 3D World didn’t need to change its format, because it’s the best platforming mechanic in gaming. Period. This is a compliment. Read this paragraph over and over until you understand what I’m saying.

    The Zelda format added Link’s new wall-sticking move and largely stayed true to its own formula, because it was a sequel to the SNES game. It’s also a format that remains unique so it’s obvious why it wouldn’t change much.

    Did you just happen to ignore the bits where I said I liked both the Mario and Zelda formats, or are you just looking for a fight?

    #10 1 year ago
  11. Dave Cook

    @7 Why would I try to deny it? I just said in my original post that Nintendo’s templates are brilliant.

    Did you miss that part?

    #11 1 year ago
  12. maxroy

    @11 Sorry that part wasn’t really aimed directly at your statement, I just put that in for any others that may comment later on.

    #12 1 year ago
  13. fihar

    You have to admit though, Nintendo is the only one out of the three that tries to change how a game is supposed to be played on the hardware side.

    Wii added motion control. Wii U added a perfectly integrated, but completely separate, 2nd screen (which is still underused). The DS added a touch screen and a 2nd screen.

    I think it takes more balls by doing this from the hardware side instead of either programming things differently or simply adding more variables.

    That being said though, sometimes things just doesn’t work.

    #13 1 year ago
  14. Young Link

    I did not mention anything about you disliking these games. I just think you are wrong about your statement about Nintendo re-packaging the same template over and over again.

    As I read, the changes in Assassin´s and Halo are like DLC packaged as different games. They just improve the same formula. They just put more chocolate in the cake, but inside ir remains the same.

    Assassin´s is just what Zelda was some years ago with Wind Waker but according with the current generation. Open World isn´t something new, Ocarina of Time did it before. About the history, i don´t really care much about it as it shouldn´t be the point to buy a game. A gameplay able to enjoy is what I ask for a game, and Assassin´s Creed seems to me more like some french guys showing how long their dick is, but unable to use it properly. I mean, this game is more about wandering and being amazed by the mind-bending work the team did but it is quite easy to beat as a whole.

    Halo´s new set of enemies, weapons and darker tone???? A DLC with better graphics, that´s all.

    Nintendo´s games are always new. Not in vain have Zelda games happened in different worlds each one. Even the art style is changed in all of them. There are “childish” looking ones like Wind Waker or Skyward Sword and also Darker tone ones such as Majoras Mask or Twilight Princess. New Zelda doesn´t only add wall-stricking move; it changed Zelda´s open world conception as now you can beat the dungeons in the order you want and they created a renting system for its ítems so every game experience could be tailor made. Of course all the dungeons are different and there are completely new monster sets and weapons and characters…

    And Mario, despite the character´s controls which I agree are perfect, each game bets for a new formula. Starting from Mario 64 which defined the genre, Mario Sunshine changed it totally not only because of the water shooting controls, it changed the way you play the game basing it on cleaning based challenges, which, if you switch the main characer for another one it would look like a totally different game. Well, what to say about Mario Galaxy, which revolutioned the 3D plataforma concept by doing it 360º degrees.

    I didn´t play the last Mario, but apart from the cat suit and the multiplayer (which in my opinión are just additions like the ones you mention about Assassin´s and Halo), it seems also like a different game, a real sandbox full of new stuff to discover and rediscover. Every level looks like a roller-coaster with Mario´s familiar scent, but for sure those are level which you have never seen before (except some of them similar to 3D land) and be sure that the game will make you go trough the challenges in so many different ways till the end of the game… Something that Assassin´s Creed or Halo will fail to do.

    #14 1 year ago
  15. Dave Cook

    @13 “Nintendo is the only one out of the three that tries to change how a game is supposed to be played on the hardware side.”


    Yeah, they are good innovators in that sense, absolutely. The joypad, N64 analogue, Motion (now everyone’s copying it), second screen (now everyone’s copying it).

    #15 1 year ago
  16. Clupula

    @15 – The Dreamcast had a second screen before anyone else.

    As for them “innovating” controls…well, it’s like inventing a shotgun that shoots makeup on someone’s face. Sure, it didn’t exist before, but is it necessary if people can just use the conventional methods?

    #16 1 year ago
  17. Ireland Michael

    @1 People *don’t* care about graphical improvements. In numerous console generations, the most popular hardware has often been the last powerful one, which only shows that people don’t give a single damn about specs. The reason the Wii U is failing is the complete lack of third party support. Many of Nintendo’s games are great, but it isn’t enough to attract people to the machine.

    @16 You’re kidding right? Analogue hugely advanced game control, to the point of making D-Pads mostly obsolete as the primary control method. It’s hard to deny how great the two screens of the DS’s are either. The Wii U is an extension of that, albeit a poor one.

    #17 1 year ago
  18. fihar

    It did? Wow, I never knew that, then again I’ve never even seen a Dreamcast in person.

    “Sure, it didn’t exist before, but is it necessary if people can just use the conventional methods?”

    Not to be a jerk, but what you just said goes against the basic principle of engineering.
    If there’s any chance that you could somehow improve something, then by all means you should. It might work, it might not, but it’s much better than being complacent.

    If Tesla had followed your train of thoughts, the internet as we know it wouldn’t have existed and I’d be left without a college degree.
    It’s one of the reasons why I appreciated Nintendo for what they are, being an engineering student and whatnot.

    #18 1 year ago
  19. Clupula

    @17 – I’ll give them analog, but a broken clock is right twice a day too. You keep throwing shit against a wall all day, eventually, some of it is going to stick.

    BAM! Analogies!

    #19 1 year ago
  20. Phoenixblight

    Nintendo has to either get 3rd party developers to come on their system which is unlikely with Nintendo’s priorities on hardware is vs SOny and MS or Nintendo has to start bringing in enough content themselves with their own system to make it relevant. Right now Nintendo is just showing what not to do for a console.

    #20 1 year ago
  21. Joe Musashi

    @@13 “Nintendo is the only one out of the three that tries to change how a game is supposed to be played on the hardware side.”

    I think that’s a disengenuous statement.

    For example, look what Microsoft did their approach to bringing online gaming to consoles in a comprehensive way. It’s so impactful and so standard practice that it’s taken for granted and completely forgotten that somebody had to introduce it in the first place. That is when you have truly made a change to ‘how a game is played’.

    Nintendos approach has nearly always involved the controller. And this approach is key because it limits options for early immitators. It always has, since the introduction of extra buttons on the SNES to touchpads and 2nd screens later on.

    The motivation is not a benevolent one to push games forward for the benefit of all: it is to create a USP that is tricky for competitors to exploit and to profit from it by producing software the showcases the hardware.

    When this approach captures people’s imagination and works for Nintendo it works very well indeed. DS and Wii, for example.


    #21 1 year ago
  22. DeVitowned

    Nintendo is in a tight spot, struggling to convince consumers the U is NOT the Wii. Believe me, even my gaming friends ask me, “Ugh, why did you buy a Wii?” when I tell them how much I love the Wii U. The interface is cluttered, but Nintendo pioneered social into a direction even the PS4 is doing. While it does not have the horsepower as the One and 4, the Wii U has innovation in the gamepad. It has great games. They are just having a hard time getting that message to the consumer.

    I hate that many of you, and millions of others, are going to miss out on a fantastic console.

    #22 1 year ago
  23. Clupula

    @22 – It’s not really missing out when there will probably only be about a half dozen games left playing in the system’s lifetime. I see three with potential right now (X, Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem, Bayonetta 2). Unless Nintendo start announcing some new titles like crazy, I don’t see that number getting much bigger, considering the system’s sales and lack of third party support.

    #23 1 year ago
  24. Phoenixblight

    THats another thing Nintendo has been talking up the Game pad and yet no game really shows it off. It could have had some real potential with their games but Nintendo is just using it as a controller from the past 10 years with a screen on it. I want to see some asynchronous gameplay with the damn pad especially with mario kart and smash bros. Nintendo had a chance to show off the controller but they haven’t with any of their games. Its just used for remote play.

    #24 1 year ago
  25. Ireland Michael

    @21 He’s referring specifically to evolution in the controller here, and it’s hard to deny that Nintendo has always tried to experiment in that area, sometimes to the better. Their games often had a fluidness of control (especially in the awkward transition to 3D) that complimented those controllers.

    I don’t think anyone will argue that the different console manufacturers brought different improvements to the table.

    Nintendo brought the controls and the game design. Sony brought mainstream appeal and huge growth. Microsoft brought us online gaming… although it could possibly be argued that SEGA were the real pioneers there, and that Sony delayed that market by years simply by not making it an option out of the box.

    #25 1 year ago
  26. InsaneZucchini

    @16. Nintendo designed the layout for today’s modern controllers. They introduced the d-pad to gaming and because of the patent they held on it, theirs has remained the best d-pad in gaming. They also created the “d-pad – four face button layout” that is used on both the Sony’s and Microsoft’s game consoles. They then added in the joystick and camera control’s with the “C arrows” which of course evolved into the right analog stick.

    Nintendo didn’t just introduce second screen gaming or motion based gaming. They pretty much invented the “conventional methods” too.

    #26 1 year ago
  27. FeaturePreacher

    I think 2014 is the year they leave the console market and try to make a go out of their own branded tablet.

    #27 1 year ago
  28. Ireland Michael

    @27 Nintendo will stick it out with the Wii U, I think. The 3DS will keep them going.

    #28 1 year ago
  29. DeVitowned

    They have the next-gen Zelda, Mario Kart, Donkey Kong, Smash Bros., X, Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem, Bayonetta 2 coming out for sure, and a good library of games that have already come out, Like the two Marios, Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101, Zombi U, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (even if it is a port of a Wii game, still fantastic).

    It’s a great console for a one-owner or a family man, and a great console to compliment my PS4. It’s like the Toyota Prius of game consoles. The people that don’t own one talk shit about it, even with its proven quality. The people that actually own one love having it.

    #29 1 year ago
  30. Clupula

    Don’t care about Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, Mario, Pikmin, Wonderful 101, Monster Hunter, and I have seen nothing of a new Zelda. Windwaker doesn’t count as it’s a…N64/Gamecube/one of those games.

    Those games don’t appeal to me (in fact, I’m actually surprised by how little interest I have in Wonderful 101, because I love Platinum, but that and Anarchy Reigns just don’t do it for me, from what I’ve seen and heard).

    I was tired of Mario 20 years ago.

    That said, if I did have a family, I’d probably pick one up if my kid wanted to play Mario Kart or whatever. And if I did pick one up, I’d actually play it when those three titles I’m interested came out.

    #30 1 year ago
  31. Os Money

    this is a case of what have you done for me lately? Sorry Nintendo, as much as i love Zelda games and some of the other titles, there is no way im buying a Wii U. Im saving that coin for a steam box. As far as them releasing there IPs on different platforms, I’ve got enough of a backlog to wait them out.

    #31 1 year ago
  32. salarta

    @1: Graphic improvement doesn’t necessarily make something next gen, but neither does throwing in a random pointless gimmick that doesn’t actually improve things. That’s why the Wii is considered part of the generation with PS3 and 360 even though it was graphically behind both consoles. It made up for lacking graphical power by providing a new method of gameplay that actually seemed like it had value and potential, even if it ultimately failed to get much use out of third parties. It’s also why the Wii U is largely taken as just a modified and updated Wii. The only meaningful change about it is graphically catching up to last gen. The controller is a blatant gimmick thrown in as an attempt to sell the console.

    @13: Nintendo experimenting with different hardware is one of their increasingly few plusses, but the latest console is less experiment and more gimmick. Some rendition of the Vitality Sensor would’ve actually done something for them. Sony and Microsoft don’t have any avenue other than creating add-ons for players to be able to use their vital signs to alter gameplay. Companies outside Nintendo have already picked up the ball on VR goggles (Oculus Rift), using a device to walk around in the game, and feeling sensations through a suit when attacked in the game.

    @22: Nintendo pioneered social in a direction Sony is adopting, but Nintendo is also more restrictive of what people are allowed to say and do (as evidenced when they shut down that application that could be used among friends for sharing questionable exchanges).

    #32 1 year ago
  33. Fin

    Nintendo are fucked.

    Clip from that comment (Feb this year)

    “They’ve neglected the outright power arms race, and despite what they (and others) say, graphics and power do matter. Without power (close-to) parity between systems, the Wii U will get left behind.”

    Apart from Ubisoft and the odd game from Activision, how many third parties are releasing on Wii U?

    #33 1 year ago
  34. Joe Musashi

    @25 Then referring to “hardware” when the focus is on the much narrower “controller” only adds to how disengenous the coment is.

    LOL, if I had a cent for every time someone was ‘accidentally’ awarding extra credit to Nintendo for something..

    Speaking of which:

    @26 Your appreciation of history is skewed. Particularly (but not exclusively) with reference to analogue controls.


    #34 1 year ago
  35. fearmonkey

    @16 – Not sure if I would consider the Dreamcast’s VMUs a second screen experience. They were way limited and more of just a memory card with a Tamagocchi built in. I loved my Dreamcast but I ended up using the 2x and 4x screenless memory cards 90% of the time.

    The thing about the Wii-u is I never understood who it was for really. It was still trying to be casual and attract that base, but yet focused on a expensive controller that mainly provided a single player experience. The confusion of whether the Wii-u was the controller was so bad that Jimmy Fallon made that mistake on Live TV. Yeah it can use the Wii-motes but most of the focus was on the gamepad. It didnt launch with a new Wii-sports, or the 3D Mario, or the Zelda. Can you buy a 2nd Wii-u touchpad controller? After A year I havent heard if it can be bought or not.

    Nintendo makes amazing games and has wonderful franchises and the industry needs them, but they made major missteps with the Wii-u. The should have released a Wii-u HD sooner than later and when the new console came out, they should have dropped the Wii monkier, making it very clear this is a new system. I am not convinced that the touchpad was a good idea for them, it obviously hasnt been as big a draw as expected, and neither MS or Sony follwed suit which they would have had it been successful.

    I don’t think the system is dead though, I think all it will take is a decent price drop to around $200 to $250 and sales will start. It wont be anywhere near the Wii and might not even beat the Gamecube but it wont be as big a bomb as people mention. I’ll get one when it drops to $200 or less most likely.

    They need to go back to the SNES mentality, no more cute underpowered boxes that focus on some type of gimmick. They need to wait 2 to 3 years at least and make a system more powerful than a PS4 or Xbox One, with a different name, and hopefully a better Online system. They cannot continue doing what they are doing.

    #35 1 year ago
  36. manamana

    #29 applause for your analogy :)

    #36 1 year ago
  37. Erthazus

    “Wii U has innovation in the gamepad. It has great games. They are just having a hard time getting that message to the consumer.”

    What a load of c…
    Wii has no innovation with the gamepad. It’s a kitchen sink without multitouch screen in 2013 with Niche games at best. Considering them great is a big subjective thing. They have good first party titles so far and third/second party titles are not That good or don’t exist. A console or a device is the thing that sits under your TV or monitor and have a lot of software. That’s it’s purpose.

    They don’t have a hard time getting the message. WiiU is crap and not worth the money. It’s not worth even 150$ for the hardware they ask. It’s hardware is overpriced and outdated at the same time. It’s a gimmick that no one want’s and no one will ever want.

    WiiU is like 3D. A gimmick that is not worth the time and money and in the WiiU case it’s outdated too compared even to 3D tech that was new at 2010.

    #37 1 year ago
  38. jordanlund

    Nintendo could make the Wii U a success by doing one simple thing:

    Remember the attachment for the Gamecube that allowed it to play Gameboy Advance games? It plugged on to the bottom of the console and you could slot your cartridges right in.

    Now imagine being able to play DS and 3DS games on your TV at home via the Wii U and the tablet screen. The television would act as the large top screen, and the tablet as the controller and touchscreen.

    Game over. Nintendo FTW. Pokemon on the big screen. So why haven’t they figured this out yet?

    #38 1 year ago
  39. polygem

    wiiu’s made for loving you baby

    #39 1 year ago
  40. jordanlund

    @35 – Whether or not you count the Dreamcast VMU as a true “second screen” or not, the Dreamcast also allowed connectivity to the Neo Geo Pocket Color as a second screen and the Gamecube connected to the Gameboy Advance in a similar manner.

    Plus, that doesn’t even get into the whole Nintendo DS thing. Basically the lower screen is a second screen, always has been.

    So Nintendo isn’t really treading new ground with the Wii U. I’m actually really surprised they don’t just have a DS/2DS emulator running on the Wii U yet. That’s the killer ap for the device.

    #40 1 year ago
  41. game_on

    @10 You’re missing the point completely. The discussion was about change, not brilliance. It looks like you’re the one who’s picking a fight with your defensive comments.

    #41 1 year ago

    They need to go back to the SNES mentality, no more cute underpowered boxes that focus on some type of gimmick. They need to wait 2 to 3 years at least and make a system more powerful than a PS4 or Xbox One, with a different name, and hopefully a better Online system. They cannot continue doing what they are doing.

    They intentionally left that (cutting edge) market of their own free will.

    I’m not so sure it’d be so easy to simply step back into it after all this time.

    Having the hardware is one thing. Regaining the trust of all of the customers that you happily ignored for the best part of a decade is another thing entirely.

    #42 1 year ago
  43. Erthazus

    I remember N64 console that had one of the best Doom games from John Romero. Doom 64. Back then that was hardcore.

    Now, you have only shitty outdated hardware with 2004 specs (lower then 360 or PS3) with horrible UI and Online infrastructure but with Mario games and kitchen sink without multitouch screen.

    So much fun… So you are asking me to buy it? Or buy a system with games potential? Oh lol. *goes back to play League Of Legends*

    I like how nintendo fanboys or any other fanboys talk about games like “Smash Bros, Monolith RPG, New Zelda” as if they are out right now. It’s just a potential. It reminds me of PS3 anouncements about Team bondi exclusivity, Final Fantasy XIII and Versus XIII exclusivity, Agent, and the Last Guardian exclusives.

    I don’t buy a system on a fucking potential. No one does that and if someone does he need a doctor right now.

    #43 1 year ago
  44. antraxsuicide

    @38 Because that’s only one game, and it would really shackle the console’s position as a stand-alone unit. It would just be a DS add-on at that point, which can only bring in so many sales.

    Bingo. The Wii U’s message is a complete disaster. Nintendo keeps hammering home the idea that they prefer local co-op to online, and then turn around and sell a console that only allows one new controller. What?! How does that make sense?

    My opinion: the Wii U needs to go away. It has zero chance of attracting 3rd party support when it can’t do much more than the current generation consoles. I think the tablet idea was brilliant when they came up with it, way back in 2008. But they waited far too long, and now much better tablets exist that make the Gamepad look like a toy.

    Also, notice how they don’t call it a tablet? It’s to avoid the comparison.

    #44 1 year ago
  45. Clupula

    @43 – Not sure what Paul McGann can do to help…

    #45 1 year ago
  46. Ireland Michael

    @45 “At least I’m not a Dalek.”

    “Who can tell the difference anymore?!”

    #46 1 year ago
  47. Asgaro

    So you think improved hardware is only there to provide beter graphics?
    Wow, are you wrong.

    With better hardware, game developers can also do more regarding gameplay. I’m talking about way bigger worlds for example, with a lot more advanced AI, etc.
    In other words: better hardware gives game developers more freedom regarding gameplay.

    Though I love my fair share of indie games (its a huge business on PC) that are able to provide innovation in gameplay, we also need innovation in current known genres like open world games, etc.

    #47 1 year ago
  48. stealth

    I like pachter but hes wrong. The system is great and people do care

    #48 1 year ago
  49. lolwut

    No worries. Nintendo will soon realize the hard way when the PS4/XB1 are selling at least over 5 million consoles in the nine months they couldn’t even sell over 4. At this rate, Nintendo is done and if they just rehash another Mario and/or Zelda without actually putting effort into breaking out of the traditional mold in story/characters then I rest my case. Pokemon XY is okay at best and the visuals are its only saving grace. I would buy those games for this alone but everywhere else it screams generic/average/cashgrab. So much for “pretty pictures and fast processors huh Reggie?” The thing that really hurts Nintendo’s ip titles is that Nintendo is literally forced to use these games as their only means for survivial now in home consoles. By doing this, they have made games from Pokemon and Mario little more than rehashes of the same storyline when they could be using 3rd party to prolong the life cycle in their ip’s until they can cook something really good. They have the means to deliver the gameplay experience but they can’t perfect everything else as of yet save for a few titles I’ve seen from them. The choice is yours Nintendo.

    #49 1 year ago

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