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Nvidia boss: “No longer possible” for consoles to have better graphics than PC

Wednesday, 25th September 2013 05:46 GMT By Brenna Hillier

Consoles will never again launch with better graphics and more power than PCs, according to Nvidia executive Tony Tamasi.

“It’s no longer possible for a console to be a better or more capable graphics platform than the PC,” he told PC PowerPlay.

“Certainly with the first PlayStation and PS2, in that era there weren’t really good graphics on the PC. Around the time of the PS2 is when 3D really started coming to the PC, but before that time 3D was the domain of Silicon Graphics and other 3D workstations. Sony, Sega or Nintendo could invest in bringing 3D graphics to a consumer platform. In fact, the PS2 was faster than a PC.

“By the time of the Xbox 360 and PS3, the consoles were on par with the PC. If you look inside those boxes, they’re both powered by graphics technology by AMD or NVIDIA, because by that time all the graphics innovation was being done by PC graphics companies. NVIDIA spends 1.5 billion US dollars per year on research and development in graphics, every year, and in the course of a console’s lifecycle we’ll spend over 10 billion dollars into graphics research.

“Sony and Microsoft simply can’t afford to spend that kind of money. They just don’t have the investment capacity to match the PC guys; we can do it thanks to economy of scale, as we sell hundreds of millions of chips, year after year.”

Back when previous generations of consoles launched, Tamasi explained, PC hardware wasn’t designed to the absolutely limits of what is possible at fabrication.

“The PC graphics industry wasn’t operating at the limits of device physics and power. If you wind back the clock, a high-end graphics card at that time was maybe 75W or 100W max. We weren’t building chips that were on the most advanced semiconductor process and were billions of transistors,” he said.

“Now we’re building GPUs at the limits of what’s possible with fabrication techniques. Nobody can build anything bigger or more powerful than what is in the PC at the moment. It just is not possible, but that wasn’t the case in the last generation of consoles. Taken to the theoretical limits, the best any console could ever do would be to ship a console that is equal to the best PC at that time. But then a year later it’s going to be slower, and it still wouldn’t be possible due to the power limits.”

Tamasi has said that Nvidia wasn’t snubbed by Sony and Microsoft, but chose not to be involved in the PS4 and Xbox One because it just wasn’t worth it. He later said that mobiles will out-perform current consoles anyway.

Matt Skynner, vice president of rival AMD, described Tamasi’s attitude as “sour grapes”, and has said partnering with console manufacturers will help AMD win the PC hardware race, too.

Thanks, games.on.net.

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75 Comments

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  1. redwood

    cause we are entering an era of over priced graphic cards and un-optimized games.

    #1 7 months ago
  2. sebastien rivas

    never say never, unless you see the perspective from self narrow viewpoint.
    And yes GCs are overpriced and Nvidia has a good smile for now since there is too little if not no competition for higher gaming GC.
    What they don’t understand is that perhaps they do have higher profit margin but it does not mean they sell as many units; therefore will we see a decrease in PC component sells as a result in next 1 to 5 years?

    Also We know Nvidia, we know AMD/ATI but Intel may come on the market at some point. I can’t speak for them but since Intel already selling APU (though clunkier than AMD at GC level) as well as (I am not so sure when) already released or about to release professional GCs which may spice up some competition down the road if they decide to twist they pro. GCs along with some gaming GC lineups.
    Unfortunately from my perspective, it feels like Intel may be going to compete with AMD at first which is not where they want to start in order to be praised and also in hope to re-bounce PC component sells.

    In the meantime, I make a grinding face when I hear Nvidia nowadays…

    #2 7 months ago
  3. Dragon246

    Stating the obvious.
    Meanwhile, No 400$ PC can match the performance of PS4.

    @2,
    Latest rumored AMD cards supposedly outperform Titan.

    #3 7 months ago
  4. ddtd

    It seems that Nvidia has been a little down on the console market since it’s been revealed that Sony and Microsoft went with AMD for their CPUs and GPUs.

    Plus, I agree with #2. Nvidia talks about these super powerful GPUs that push the limits, however fail to mentions the price point. Let’s be honest, the target demo for those units are enthusiasts with deep pockets. The average PC gamer is going to build their rigs sensibly and to last for a long time before upgrading, and they know you don’t need the latest and greatest parts because the hardware is outpacing what the software can do because designers are spec-ing the games to run on the most common setups.

    #4 7 months ago
  5. gomersoul

    It’s never been possible for consoles to have better graphics, captain obvious… This sounds like sour grapes to me again. Stop bashing consoles and concentrate on why you didn’t get those hardware contracts, it’s not helping nvidias public image

    #5 7 months ago
  6. viralshag

    Who really cares THAT much though other than GPU manufacturers, PC fanboys and dedicated PC enthusiasts?

    As a gamer good graphics are obviously a bonus but where are all these amaaaaaazing games n the PC? 95% of the time they’re getting the exact same games as consoles and most of the time as a late after thought port where the graphics don’t improve that much.

    #6 7 months ago
  7. TheWulf

    Hooray, a painfully obvious statement that’s only going to deepen the divide between console owners and computer owners.

    I’ve never owned a computer for graphical fidelity, anyway. Why do I own a computer? For a few things that a console can’t and won’t be able to do, which is solely due to the nature of the beast. Of course, the worth of why I own a PC is completely subjective.

    Mods

    I like mods, they can do anything from repairing content, to adding content, or even completely changing the nature of a game. I’d say that Skyrim is definitely a better experience with mods, but then you may have people who’re all about convenience who’d think that mods are more trouble than their worth.

    Installing mods has become as easy as a button press thanks to Steam Workshop, and that’s undeniably a truism, but it’s still might be too much for the average consumer to want to bother with. One might simply want a product that is as it is, to use it and then discard it, as part of the usual cycle of capitalism. They may not be interested in the continuation of a game via mods, they may just want to trade it in as second-hand.

    I like what mods can add, though, and I like that they do offer what I feel is a superior gaming experience. I like that I can go to Steam and just click a button to get an interesting new map or piece of content for something. Yet not everyone would agree.

    It’s all about the right product. If you care about extending the life of your games, then having a PC is worth the price. If you don’t, then it isn’t. It’s that simple. Some people like to come back to games, others just prefer to move on to the next mainstream experience ASAP.

    Indie Titles

    Games like Gone Home, Shelter, Megabyte Punch, Shadowrun Returns, The Swapper, MacGuffin’s Curse, Beatbuddy, and so on may never arrive on consoles. Why? I’d say that there are three primary reasons.

    1. Money

    To list a game on a console, it often takes more money than it would on a PC. Why? You’ll often have to pay for the right to publish a game on a console, whereas on the PC you can just host the game on your own site and sell it to people from there. This is something that the Android platform has in common with the PC.

    It also means that you’ll never see the likes of humble bundles, where most of the money may go to charity.

    2. Jumping Through Hoops

    To get something on a console you have to go through loads of red tape, and it takes a huge amount of time. And then to land a patch, it’s sometimes more trouble than it’s worth, and more costly. This is why you’ll have developers who land patches on the PC first and more frequently, because there’s no one to tell them that they can’t patch their game, and no one to tell them it’ll cost money.

    Bethesda tends to land PC patches first and more frequently due to this very factor, and they’ve even said as much. It can be a massive hassle, and one that indie developers just don’t want to deal with. It can be more trouble than it’s worth.

    3. Advertising

    Even if you get a game listed on a console, it tends to not have the limelight — that’s given to AAA titles which console manufacturers have deals with. Furthermore, there can be no humble bundles on a console, because the control of how sales work is handled purely by the console manufacturer. So you can’t get the kind of advertising that being a part of a bundle would bring you.

    Furthermore, on Steam, indies tend to get front page treatment, that’s something that rarely ever happens on consoles, and when it does it’s always with either larger budget titles, or with exclusive titles. Want to release your titles cross-platform? Don’t expect the consoles to do you any favours with advertising if you’re not being exclusive.

    So for those three reasons there are games on the PC which can’t be found anywhere else (except perhaps on Android). This is the nature of the beast. The console is a closed platform that has endless series of gatekeepers. The PC is an open platform with no gatekeepers. Which do you think is the easiest for indie devs?

    Perhaps you’re only interested in indie games if they have a big budget, though, and AAA-like polish. Maybe you just prefer AAA third-person action games and manshoots, and you’re not interested in any of this pretentious, retro pap. That’s your prerogative, and in this case a console might suit you better. It’d be all you need.

    Emulation / Back Catalogue

    The PC has the back catalogue of almost everything. The earliest home computers, arcades, and consoles right up to and including the PS2 and the Wii. It also has the entire back catalogue of the PC, every title released since the IBM PC was a thing.

    So if you want to play an old game on your next gen console, you can’t. It’s not backwards compatible. Yet if you felt like pulling a title from ’01 out of your library, you can, and you’ll be able to play it. Titles from way back still work, I recently replayed Ultima VII, which is as old as the hills at this point.

    So whereas the PS4 doesn’t support the PS3, and the XBox One doesn’t support the 360, the PC is different. Every PC upgrade will continue to support every game in your library, and you won’t ever lose that library. You won’t have to re-buy games on your new platform simply because your old platform isn’t supported.

    And like I said, there’s emulation. Feel like playing a NES game from forever ago? You can! Feel like playing a modern remake of that game? It’s no doubt out there as freeware. Someone’s done it!

    Yet maybe one isn’t interested in the history of gaming, and as such this wouldn’t hold much of an appeal. It might have no appeal at all. If that is indeed the case, then this wouldn’t make a PC desirable to them. A console would be a better choice, maybe.

    Sharing

    Game jams! Freeware! Open source! People make and give away games for free. Have you ever played Frogatto and Friends? If you have a PC and you haven’t — for shame! It’s one of the best platformers out there, and it costs exactly zero pennies. There are so many brilliant games with no price-tag attached.

    Have you played Full Moon Rising? If not, you absolutely should, it’s hilarious! I could sit here for hours asking ‘have you played,’ I really could. Have you played Naya? Have you played Dino Run? Have you played Warsow? Have you played Shivah? But yes, it’ll take up too much of your time if I were to. Suffice it to say though, there’s a lot of good, free stuff out there.

    I like it because it has charm and they’re experiences you wouldn’t find in the mainstream. Yet some people? Some people would see them as utterly stupid, and lacking the mainstream polish they’d desire. It’s not for everyone.

    So there you go. Those are reasons to either own or not own a PC.

    #7 7 months ago
  8. TheWulf

    @6

    Sure, that’s true. If you forget the game jam games, the open source games, the freeware games, and the indie games which aren’t anything like the console mainstream.

    I suppose that’s easy to forget though if you just don’t have experience with a PC, but really it just speaks of your ignorance on the subject. You’re looking in from the outside, and you don’t know what to look for. So you make incorrect assumptions.

    It comes across as a bizarre sort of discrimination. You don’t know about X, so you make derogatory assumptions about it. I don’t understand what it’s fuelled by, honestly. A feeling of inferiority or… what?

    You tell me.

    Honestly, I’d be perfectly happy if you’d at least do your research. Whenever I talk about something, I at least take the time to dip my feet in to make sure that I’m right.

    #8 7 months ago
  9. viralshag

    @8, he’s talking purely about graphics so please point out why that applies to indies and emulators. You’re talking about gaming as a whole on the PC which is completely off topic. Did you even read the article?

    #9 7 months ago
  10. OwnedWhenStoned

    Any graphical improvements between my PC and my PS3 are an added bonus for me.

    I use the PC more because I have more choice on input methods.

    But I have to say, very few PS3 games look better.

    #10 7 months ago
  11. mistermogul

    To be honest I never thought consoles had better graphics than PC anyway.

    #11 7 months ago
  12. Erthazus

    @viralConsoleFanboy,
    “Who really cares THAT much though other than GPU manufacturers, PC fanboys and dedicated PC enthusiasts?

    As a gamer good graphics are obviously a bonus but where are all these amaaaaaazing games n the PC? 95% of the time they’re getting the exact same games as consoles and most of the time as a late after thought port where the graphics don’t improve that much.”

    If no one cared, AMD or Nvidia would not sell millions of GPU’s.

    Good graphics is first of all 60 frames per second and 1080p and not 720p and 20 frames per second that is outdated 15 years ago.

    95% of the time console gamers getting nothing but PR talk from Sony and Microsoft and that’s where games end’s.

    Every game that comes to the PC from console even if it is the most shittiest port ever will look 20 times better because of resolution, frame rate, filters and if you want. You can force your videocard to use Anti-aliasing.

    Current gen games on the PC looks like a next gen game. Easy.

    #12 7 months ago
  13. Erthazus

    @Dragon246, “Meanwhile, No 400$ PC can match the performance of PS4.”

    Yeah, you can, fucktwit.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1753985/400-gaming.html

    and even with better performance.

    #13 7 months ago
  14. Gekidami

    ^ smh What a douche. Not only does his link prove nothing in regards to what was said, its not even in the slightest bit relevant, but obviously its finished with that highly upper class PC gamer “We dont swear and scream like kids online” insult.

    Seriously, can he get banned just for being such a massive tool? He could use the time to find out what an OS is.

    #14 7 months ago
  15. DrDamn

    @13
    http://www.hwcompare.com/12033/radeon-hd-7770-vs-radeon-hd-7850/

    Not to mention the PS4 GPU is meant to be a little more powerful than a 7850 too. The 7770 is what’s closest to the X1 before you start taking into account customisations.

    #15 7 months ago
  16. viralshag

    @12, what’s your point? I’m not disputing the fact that people game on the PC, obviously they do and that’s why they sell graphics cards, because you can’t game on a PC without them… So really, what is your point?

    If graphics are the most important thing going why do consoles and console games sell so well?

    At the end of the day you’re still playing the majority of games that console players are. In the grand scheme of things a few more bells and whistles doesn’t change the core experience of a game. Please feel free to point out the huge list of graphically impressive PC exclusives from the last year or two.

    #16 7 months ago
  17. CyberMarco

    @Erth, Why PC-only game developers didn’t make PC games look like next gen? (apart from Crysis yada yada…)

    e.g. Why didn’t the Witcher 2 look like how the Witcher 3 is going to look on “next-gen”? Note that I’m not mentioning console ports to PC obviously.

    Still waiting to hear how you can play a AAA at “any resolution you want” with a budget PC.

    #17 7 months ago
  18. ninjanutta

    Here we go ………LOL.

    #18 7 months ago
  19. Citrus raptor

    As someone who’s made the personal realisation that graphics are worthless if the content they’re displaying isn’t good, I couldn’ care less about this graphics stress. ‘Better’ graphics is a fleeting concept, making it one’s top priority is dumb. A solid display of art/Graphics that runs well is a better target.

    Hell, even if I had the opportunity of making a game with photorealistic graphics, I’d still want to explore those we see in games today. Just like someone who’s interesed in pixel art today. Brian Eno once said something about a medium and its various stages; I Think it would fit well in discussions about graphics nowadays.

    A bit more on topic… I don’t care, Nvidia.

    #19 7 months ago
  20. Erthazus

    @DrDamn, Show me official PS4 graphics card GPU specs. Otherwise this is all speculation. Fact is that the system for 415$ is more powerfull than PS4 right now.
    1 year later it’s going to have a 2x power and each year it is going to be the same thing.

    @CyberMarco,
    “e.g. Why didn’t the Witcher 2 look like how the Witcher 3 is going to look on “next-gen”? Note that I’m not mentioning console ports to PC obviously.”

    Have you actually played Witcher 2 on the PC? It looks next gen on the PC.
    Have you ever looked what effects and stuff that game had in the PC version?
    And No one saw decent (and the latest build) of witcher 3 on consoles.
    “Still waiting to hear how you can play a AAA at “any resolution you want” with a budget PC.”

    What you mean by a budget PC? You can play any AAA game at any resolution and it depends on your hardware. Is something wrong with that?
    What budget?

    @Gekidami, I don’t need to find what OS is because I actually can program in Linux and I know EXACTLY what OS is about. Your knowledge about OS is as much as the next kid below you. You don’t know Ubuntu, PhP, SQL, how to work at XAMPP and so on. You can only talk about Sony superiority for your favourite sony fanboys.

    #20 7 months ago
  21. Lengendaryboss

    Well someone had to do this:

    http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/THISGONBGUD.gif
    http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/popcorn_yes.gif

    Continue.

    #21 7 months ago
  22. Gekidami

    “Show me official PS4 graphics card GPU specs. Otherwise this is all speculation.”
    lol The hypocrisy.

    -Is willing to speculate whats more capable

    -Is shown to be (yet again) an idiot who doesnt know what he’s talking about

    -Suddenly now that he’s been proven wrong, comparing cards (which he himself was doing) is pointless because its just “speculating”

    You’ve got to laugh because if you dont, the fact that this person is of the same species as the rest of us will make you cry for your sanity.

    #22 7 months ago
  23. DrDamn

    @Erth
    If you say it’s speculation then how can you say this box you’ve linked is more powerful?

    A 7770 is a 1.28 teraflop card. PS4 is 1.84 teraflops. That much is known.

    #23 7 months ago
  24. absolutezero

    You think the PS4 will let us turn off Motion Blur this time?

    I wonder if they’ll have an actual options page. I mean they are powerful enough at this stage that it would not be all that difficulty to impliment either a general system setting or game specific options.

    I value clarity and framerate above most graphical bells and whistles so being able to actually turn superfluous ugly shit off like Motion Blur would be interesting to see if it lead directly to improved performance on the consoles.

    #24 7 months ago
  25. Gekidami

    @23
    Because he’s a greasy weasel who will lie and make up stuff so that consoles always look worst than PC?

    #25 7 months ago
  26. Lengendaryboss

    “You’ve got to laugh because if you don’t.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL55GM2DPno

    #26 7 months ago
  27. Fin

    @20

    “Your knowledge about OS is as much as the next kid below you. You don’t know Ubuntu, PhP, SQL, how to work at XAMPP and so on.”

    PHP, SQL dbs and XAMPP aren’t remotely related to OS.
    Also, PHP and SQL aren’t exactly difficult to pick up/a good measure of someone’s knowledge. Nor is Ubuntu, really. It’s like the WinXP of Linux distros (easy to use, everyone knows about it).

    #27 7 months ago
  28. monkeygourmet

    Yeah… Graphics and power don’t matter.

    Unless your comparing PS4 to Xbone. Then PS4 wins because it’s more powerful.

    People pick and choose when it’s appropriate for them. Fact is Sony & MS (I won’t even mention Nintendo in this case), have made very medicore ‘next gen’ consoles this time.

    It’s not even their fault as creating a cutting edge machine that will be cheapish and last 10 years isn’t really in the realms of possibility right now.

    GPU’s and mobile devices are increasing in power on an almost 6 monthly basis, consoles just can’t keep up, this has never been more evident and why streaming will potentially bail them out late into the generation.

    Launching a console that can’t keep a stable 1080p & 60fps is a mistake though, especailly from my perspective. The average joe doesn’t care, but people who frequent gaming sites like this should understand that the next gen has sacrificed alot for media functions, OS and app switching.

    It had to be done in some respects, but the devices are becoming more like dumbed down PC’s and PC’s are becoming more like ‘top end’ consoles.

    #28 7 months ago
  29. Fin

    @28

    |very medicore ‘next gen’ consoles

    Just out of curiosity, how many graphics cards have 8GB of GDDR5 RAM?
    I don’t think they’ll outperform PCs, obviously, but calling them mediocre is a bit of a joke.

    #29 7 months ago
  30. absolutezero

    GDDR5 is not just a straight upgrade over DDR3 when used in a PC, if you have a GPU with some GDDR5 and some system DDR3 then it can both multi-task well and handle more focused intense graphic output.

    #30 7 months ago
  31. monkeygourmet

    @29

    I fully expected 1080p & 60fps as standard. If that wasn’t the case, PC as my main gaming platform then consoles as secondary.

    Im fed up of screen tear, framerates dropping below 30fps etc… Games are looking better than ever, but certain things betray them and I feel we will see a repeat next gen, only with more ‘sparkles’.

    Im not sure the GDDR5 on the PS4 works in the same way as the PC uses it, although I don’t know enough about PC’s.

    To me, the GDDR5 is the new CELL / Bluray when I see how Sony fanboys describe it.

    Until I see evidence for it being used purely for gaming and not being gobbled up by OS features, it means nothing to me.

    @30 explained it better than me! :)

    #31 7 months ago
  32. pcbros

    PC($$$) Graphics > Console ($$) Graphics… what a shocker :P

    #32 7 months ago
  33. Fin

    @30

    So if you had GDDR5 as both video and system memory in a PC, you would get better performance? Cos that’s what the PS4 does (w/unified memory).

    @31

    It doesn’t work the same way as a PC uses it, as it has unified memory between the game and graphics. PCs have one chunk of memory for OS and game (ie normal RAM), and one chunk of memory for graphics (graphics card RAM). Unified memory on PS4 means all of this is combined, so the developer can decide how much RAM to allocate for game/graphics split, rather than being constrained by predefined amounts (eg 1GB of RAM in a standard PC graphics card is all that can be used by graphics). It also allowed other features, like super-high transfer rates (something like 170gb/sec for GDDR5) across all memory, as everything is in one pool.

    It’s not equivilant to CELL, as GDDR5 will be standard in PC graphics cards, but not for a few years.

    “Until I see evidence for it being used purely for gaming and not being gobbled up by OS features”

    Don’t think you quite understand – games on PS4 have a specific amount of memory to work with (5GB, last I heard). The rest is “gobbled” (2.5GB total, probably) by the OS, but the entire 5GB is free for the devs to use (w/arbitrary split between game memory and graphics memory).

    Think of a console like a PC with SteamOS on it. Low overhead, everything’s designed for game optimization.

    #33 7 months ago
  34. absolutezero

    No it would lead to worse performance if you had DDR5 throughout. DDR3 is better at handling multiple processes at the sametime, switching between programs and having multiple programs open simultaneously. DDR5 is superior at running single progresses and slow slightly when its tasked with multiple programs.

    Thats why the combination of both system based DDR3 for everyday use and then dedicated GDDR5 on a GPU is a more useful set up for a PC.

    Thats why its a little bit odd that all of the OS side of things and say streaming, recording etc is going to run through DDR5. It would have made more sense to include DDR3 dedicated to that stuff. I guess it might have ended up being too confusing to code for and could possibly have raised the price.

    DDR5 is more or less already standard across most GPU’s around today. Because the OS and the rest of the PC is running system RAM you need less on the GPU, which lowers the price.

    #34 7 months ago
  35. monkeygourmet

    @33

    Im getting a PS4, and Im sure we’ll see some great stuff down the line.

    But, im disappointed that the original pitch of Cerny (I’m paraphrasing); PC like, powerful, easy to develop for, made by gamers for gamers, etc.. Isn’t evidant atall to me in the games I have seen so far.

    I know they are launch titles, but considering the ease of use and power of the wonder machine, I expected locked framerates and better looking games.

    Of course games will look better in 2 years time, hell, even Nintendo & Retro will prob make the Wii U sing, but by then the hardcore PC GPU’s will be upon us and the leap will be huge.

    For me, there has been a large descrepency between what is promised and so far been shown.

    The PS4 is more in my firing line as there are multi sources promoting the power it has over Xbone without evidence.

    #35 7 months ago
  36. DrDamn

    @MG
    We’ve ended up with what’s sustainable from a business point. People don’t want to spend $700+ on a basic console and MS and Sony can’t take a $300 hit for each console they sell.

    The 60fps/1080p argument doesn’t work. There will always be games who trade off the extra 30fps for prettier pictures, and for a lot of people that’s what they want. Both X1 and PS4 could mandate 60fps/1080p. Both consoles have the grunt to achieve it. It’s not a power issue.

    #36 7 months ago
  37. edragon

    HA HA HAAAA!

    All this because Sony and Microsoft using AMD? LMAO! :)

    Anyway like this Nvidia guy wrote, year later next PC is better again. But only then if you buy NEW Nvidia card. New card price is over £800. And this is funny part. How many home PC users spending EVERY YEAR £800 for new Nvidia graphic card??? :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

    I think I go and better buy console than buy every year new nvidia card. That’s why 80% PC players are pirates. they spend all the money for hardware, so they do not have any money left for software! :)

    #37 7 months ago
  38. Fin

    @34

    Er, how do you quantify “better at handling multiple processes”? Latency?

    @35

    How would you tell if something was easy to develop for?

    #38 7 months ago
  39. EdgizAwesome

    Erthazus, just stop, stop being an idiot, stop insulting others, and stop wasting commenting space please as time and time again you have been proven wrong in your pathetic rants.

    #39 7 months ago
  40. monkeygourmet

    @36

    “The 60fps/1080p argument doesn’t work.”

    It’s not an argument! :)

    History shows that without setting a solid benchmark from the off, more and more things get sacrificed.

    Last gen games were going below 720p and 30fps in alot of cases. At the start of this coming gen, we’ve already seen games like Ryse drop from 1080p to 900p and BF4′s res is still unconfirmed.

    All im saying is, things will start to drift as the years go by if you don’t have a solid foundation.

    I’ve had a 1080p TV for 4+ years now. 1080p is what I expect from a new machine that is supposed to last 8 years. Im fed up of jaggies, screen tear and framerates dropping below 30. I can foresee next gen struggling with these benchmarks, hence consoles will become my additions to a gaming PC.

    I understand that MS and Sony couldn’t afford to lose out too much, but both seem like a very small jump to me.

    Biggest ‘new’ features are sharing, media functions. I have a media PC and iPad for stuff like that so it really doesn’t excite me. Facebook / app switching, i’m really not bothered.

    #40 7 months ago
  41. monkeygourmet

    @38

    “How would you tell if something was easy to develop for?”

    Good question. Im just not atall blown away by many things I have seen from next gen so far. Both consoles seem like minor upgrades with media functionality tacked on.

    Thats not my vision for next gen.

    #41 7 months ago
  42. VibraniumSpork

    http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/490/786/6e7.gif

    #42 7 months ago
  43. Keivz

    @41
    You’re suffering from “launch titles” syndrome. I recommend the watchful waiting approach.

    #43 7 months ago
  44. stockops3

    Graphics, Graphics, Graphics, who cares really? I will also prefer games which have good gameplay, not how many polgons you can fit on a screen or stupid hyper ‘realistic’ graphics. And people play indie games and minecraft and MMO’s which aren’t revolutionary in graphics at all. But yet we still want Crysis 8 with ULTRA REALISM…… Art design > Polgons.

    #44 7 months ago
  45. DSB

    Yup, stating the obvious.

    He was right about the AMD console deal as well. It’s pretty obvious to anyone that AMD was the company that needed that deal the most.

    #45 7 months ago
  46. monkeygourmet

    @41

    :)

    I know what you mean! It’s a little bit more than that though. I just hoped for a little more power, and a little less media functions.

    It’s been a looooooong wait for this next gen, just doesn’t seem like a big enough jump for me. Still, I will enjoy the exclusives!

    #46 7 months ago
  47. DrDamn

    @40
    While you can still gain visually from dropping to 30fps over 60fps then it’s going to remain a choice for devs. Tech where you can’t realistically gain is arguably not available or prohibitively expensive.

    #47 7 months ago
  48. monkeygourmet

    @47

    The price of the PS4 is about okay for the tech. Not so sure about the Xbone though.

    Also, Wii U is now priced okay(ish).

    I would have still paid £399 – £429 for a PS4 that had more power though, it was cheaper than I expected it to be.

    #48 7 months ago
  49. sleaker

    And reporting from reality… Consoles have never had better graphics capabilities than current-gen PC Graphics hardware, woo.

    #49 7 months ago
  50. Fin

    I think the problem is ye’re all comparing consoles to your high gaming rigs.

    For the average consumer who has an alright laptop, consoles have faaar better graphics than PCs.

    #50 7 months ago
  51. monkeygourmet

    @49

    No, but this is the first proper generation that the PC is being seen as a viable alternative for many people.

    #51 7 months ago
  52. Phoenixblight

    @51

    And what evidence do you have of the PC being an alternative? Sorry but you won’t get a PC for the same price as a PS4 or Xbox One that provides the same performance. Price is king.

    #52 7 months ago
  53. monkeygourmet

    @52

    To a point, yeah.

    Im coming at it form a point of view of PC gaming coverage and spread of information.

    In the last 4 years, sites like Eurogamer et all have gone from minimal PC coverage, to showing how to build cheap machines that outperform consoles and are easy to build.

    #53 7 months ago
  54. DrDamn

    @51
    That says as much about where PCs were before than consoles now. They were a lot more of a pain in the ass (and they still are to an extent) than they are now.

    #54 7 months ago
  55. Cobra951

    “Sony and Microsoft simply can’t afford to spend that kind of money.”

    Since when? Microsoft at least can easily spend that wad of cash on any number of things. They allocated $1 billion to the RRoD fiasco alone.

    The story is all marketing speak, not facts. He’s throwing way too many absolutes into his speech for it to be factual. Nothing is flatly impossible, dear sir. Not that I disagree with the notion of PCs being the superior platform for graphics. Clearly, they are.

    #55 7 months ago
  56. DSB

    @54 Yes and no. The PC is really facing a lot more pressure right now than it ever has, but it’s not from consoles, it’s from tablets.

    They’re the next step on the evolutionary chain, it’s just a question of how fast miniaturization will mature.

    Other than that, I think you’re right, PC gaming is differentiating itself a lot more than it has compared to previous generations. Going into the 360/PS3 era, you were looking at platforms that were all running on physical media.

    Now the PC is digital, and it’s been able to reap the rewards of being an open, evolving platform.

    One thing that bothers me a lot about the new consoles is that they haven’t been able to find an SSD cheap enough. It’s gonna be pretty sad to go from a PC that starts and runs within seconds to a console that potentially makes me wait for minutes at a time.

    Booting up my old 360 is already a pain.

    @55 The fact that they could doesn’t mean it’s viable, which is obviously what he’s talking about. Microsoft aren’t about to throw away money, they have shareholders to care for.

    #56 7 months ago
  57. monkeygourmet

    @54

    And also the direction consoles are moving in.

    They are essentially more like a PC than ever before.

    Multitasking, Apps, Internet Browsers, Facebook, Media, Games etc…

    If im doing all that, I’d rather be doing it on a machine that can offer better performance.

    The Wii U is the last ‘traditional’ console, and even that has it’s fair share of media type functions.

    Dark Souls is a good example of why I want to switch. I loved that game, but being able to play it on PC at 1080p / 60FPS (blighttown!) with mods would make the game alot better for me.

    Same with GTA 5 and any game you care to mention thats multiplat. Even a badly optimised game gets tweaks and performs so much better. Effectivly, how the dev would have wanted it without being limited.

    You get what you pay for and all that. :)

    I really don’t want to go into the new era thinking…

    ‘those textures look shit’
    ‘Damn screen tear’
    ‘Jaggies’
    ‘Why is it chugging at 20fps’

    Deep Down initial reveal compared to the gameplay was such a difference it has cemented my decision.

    http://www.vgleaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/gif-1.gif

    I just can’t stand all these bullshots and fake videos.

    #57 7 months ago
  58. sebastien rivas

    @ Numerous posters who ponder the question of top GC lineups use for best graphics.

    In my opinion it has never been with I want the top of the line because I want the top graphics.
    You know, and I know it is quite dumb because the value at which I purchase a real high price GC is just too great compared to the longevity of keeping that card to top games FPS and settings.
    However, I did pay full price for example when GTX8800 OC’ed came out because according to the card specs and features then I knew I could keep it for a minimum of 4 to 6 years for gaming and it was already in the order of 500~650$ bucks already.

    But paying 1K + for at best 2 years of ultra settings and remaining hopeful to keep the card for 6 years, I say no thanks!

    Again as I mentioned in a previous thread. Cards are slightly bigger, do have a die shrink and have roomier set of memory.
    My point is, Should that be expressed with such price increase? Silicon and other elements are is more use but not to define such price increase. While first batches of die shrink are hard to make, then I assume it becomes easier within 6 to 8 months, so again price tag?
    Please don’t shove feature(s) in my face to prove anything, that would be debilitating! (look at my DDR5, it goes X time faster than…), the result in composition is primarily the same as others, still is silicon crammed in a different way and perhaps in different amount but again does that prove price tag increase?

    Don’t get me wrong, I am really happy for anyone who perceive the value is right and go for it. Although it is my belief that Nvidia is going the wrong way that can only lead to stall PC component sells in general.

    #58 7 months ago
  59. Dragon246

    Bottomline is, both next-gen consoles and PC can happily co-exist imo. I don’t think neither Nvidia, MS and Sony has anything serious to be worried about. New iterative hardware sells, there is no need for a revolution for next-gen as some hardcore gamers bark about, just look at Iphone sales.
    With the exception of failed Wii U , real next-gen consoles (PS4 and X1) should take console gaming to new heights. Similarly, PC gaming will also only increase. PC hardware sales doesn’t really have a direct relation to PC gaming figures, which have been pretty consistent.

    One more point, hardware grunt isn’t the only thing that will define next-gen success, it also requires great pricing. 400$ is a very good price of admission for next-gen imo since its a decent price and is also enough to cram some serious hardware (not PC Master Race kind of serious :P ).

    #59 7 months ago
  60. DSB

    @59 I’d be surprised if we didn’t see a few PC hardware companies go under over the course of the next generation. The ones that will survive are the ones that are heavily engaged in mobile, tablets and servers.

    That’s just the natural consequence of the market shrinking. Fewer bucks to go around. Making hardware is hugely expensive, so you really have to go big or go home.

    If you look at the numbers of the AMD deal, you’re looking at providing hardware for possibly 200 million units over ten years (tops, right?). But the PC market alone is closer to 350 every year (and that’s a minimum estimate). I don’t even know what the server, tablet or mobile market looks like.

    So that’s really not a big deal when you consider the scale.

    #60 7 months ago
  61. sebastien rivas

    @59
    I like your idea. As you mention, perhaps race to next absolute bigger/better is the wrong way to go in first place in which case Nvidia better take this personally because they have always been thrived by next big thing and raced for it. But one in all, I agree with an idea that technology may be going a bit too fast nowadays; therefore beware or drown in your own delirium if there is a market switch of demands which again price tag may have a hard core value to play in this scenario.

    #61 7 months ago
  62. CyberMarco

    @monkey, regarding the issue of console (not) being able to deliver next-gen games at a solid 1080p @60FPS.

    It all depends on the developer, how they want to deliver their games, do they want to sacrifice some of the resolution and FPS for better lighting/shadow effects, higher quality textures and the likes or do they want to keep it at solid 1080p @60FPS along the board but reduce the graphical fidelity?

    The same can be said for PC, I doubt my PC with be able to run BF4 maxed at 1080p @60FPS, although it managed to do it for BF3, so there it is.

    #62 7 months ago
  63. DrDamn

    @MG
    This is the TGS Deep Down video … http://youtube.com/watch?v=GSFYEg61-Fc

    Dragon fight is at the end. Not all that dissimilar to the initial reveal.

    #63 7 months ago
  64. pcbros

    @52 – Price is not king, value is king.

    If not all hail the Wii U, king of the next-generation!

    #64 7 months ago
  65. Phoenixblight

    @64

    Wii U doesn’t have price. Ps3 and 360 do not to mention the roster of games. ALso hardly call it next gen especially once next gen games come out you will see no games being ported to it.

    #65 7 months ago
  66. TheWulf

    I see #60 is still on his ‘computers are dying’ spiel. I’ll repost here what I posted on the forums.

    Yep. The PC is always dying. It’s been dying forever now, you know? Interestingly, Steam sales are higher now than they’ve ever been.

    Perhaps the two go hand in hand? The PC “dying” and the increasing popularity of Steam, I mean. Since usually if something is dying, it’s often haemorrhaging users. Like, say… WoW! WoW is the perfect example of something dying.

    I think there’s room for the PC and tablets/mobiles, honestly. I love my tablet and I use it to watch videos and do things, but the games for it are still by and large not very good at all. And indies are still producing for the PC more than any other platform, too.

    It happens all the time though, this. And it’s funny.

    8-bit consoles exist! Computers are dying!
    16-bit consoles exist! Computers are dying!
    The Playstation exists! Computers are dying!
    The PS2, GameCube, and Xbox exist! Computers are dying!
    The 360, PS3, and Wii exist! Computers are dying!
    The XBox One, PS4, and Wii U exist! Computers are dying!
    The tablet platforms exist! Computers are dying!

    Sounds like poorly considered hyperbole to me.

    Computers will always be “dying” whilst forever gaining more popularity. Funny how that works.

    I think some people just want the PC to die so bad that they delude themselves into believing that it some day will. It’s been happening ever since the earliest days of the PC. At first the computer was a fad that would never catch on. Then it was something that would never be popular, and since then it’s been something that was obviously going to die.

    Yet here the PC is, not only being as popular as it has ever been, but gaining in popularity with each passing year.

    As I pointed out in an earlier post — one buys something not because of idiotic brand loyalty, but because of what features the platform offers. There are features a PC offers that can’t be found anywhere else. Like open source games, game jams, freeware, indie titles, modding, emulation, and rampant bouts of unchecked creativity leading to all sorts of fun stuff.

    Maybe someone doesn’t want any of that, in which case a console is a better purchase. But that the PC exclusively possesses all of those features? That means that to certain buyers, the PC is always going to be the right choice. Right up until an open platform console happens.

    For the record, I’m completely for open platform consoles, I’ve said it time and time again in the past. An open platform console though would even help the PC, because the two would work in tandem to strengthen each other. So that’d be fantastic. It’d just a specific kind of open platform you connect to your TV, or a specific kind of open platform you sit at your desk.

    These platform wars have forever been stupid.

    Xbox people hating on Playstation people, and whatnot. It’s just stupid. It’s childish, hateful, and it doesn’t help anyone. After all, at the end of the day, all we want to do is play good games and play them how we want to, right?

    In that case, there’s enough room for all these platforms. And we should be happy with what we have.

    Hooray for once again having to be the voice of sanity and reason.

    #66 7 months ago
  67. TheWulf

    @44

    Couldn’t agree with you more. Don’t care if you’re a console owner, a PC owner, or a Texas Instruments calculator user, you speak the truth.

    We choose our platform and we use it to play games.

    Sometimes I feel like I’m one of the only grown-ups in a sea of gaming youf. It’s bizarre, really, how people behave. It’s kind of like competing over which toaster is better, when they all make slightly different kinds of toast.

    You pick your platform and you play your games.

    Graphics hardware is a puerile thing to base worth on, too. Base it upon the actual quality of a gaming experience. Whatever you think makes a good gaming experience.

    #67 7 months ago
  68. DSB

    @66 Gosh, I sure hate to barge in on your delusions there, but it’s just a fact.

    The PC isn’t dying, but it’s evolving, and that means going through a transitional phase which will see the PC companies that didn’t hedge their bets on the future die off.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/9601247/PC-market-to-shrink-for-first-time-in-a-decade.html

    Some people talk shit, other people really just look at the numbers. I know who I’d listen to if I was investing.

    And just in case you got insecure there, it’s really not the gaming PC that is dying. It’s largely the modern typewriter/e-mail console that’s being usurped by tablets.

    The reason why that matters is obviously because the companies involved with PC gaming are also the companies involved with providing hardware for the modern typewriter.

    But most people who know what they’re talking about will tell you that it’ll probably be enough to kill off the poorly grounded hardware companies out there.

    Again, it’s simple logic. Less money being spent = Less money being earned. Less money being earned = Fewer businesses. That’s not even economy 101. Even an idiot would understand something like that. You’d think.

    #68 7 months ago
  69. viralshag

    @68, But mods, emulators and indies!!!!

    #69 7 months ago
  70. DSB

    @69 Hah! I love all three, but I don’t kid myself that the rest of the gaming public does. I guess that’s the difference between me and TheWulf.

    It’s not gonna be good for us PC gamers, but the sad fact is that there’s a big difference between a company that’s ready to produce a lot of miniaturized chips for mobile/tablets and a company that isn’t.

    And you just can’t build that capacity overnight. It’s safe to say that AMD is in for a rough ride.

    Ars Technica did a pretty great series of articles on it.

    http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/04/the-rise-and-fall-of-amd-how-an-underdog-stuck-it-to-intel/

    http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/04/amd-on-ropes-from-the-top-of-the-mountain-to-the-deepest-valleys/

    #70 7 months ago
  71. TheWulf

    Wow. I looked back here to write up a post elsewhere. Sometimes it amazes me at how much of an inferiority complex a person is willing to show. How very ready they are to put their pettiness and rage on display. All they’re doing is making troglodytes of themselves.

    Which is appalling and repugnant, honestly. Yay for moral high grounds, which I certainly have a monopoly over in arguments like this. Mostly because I’m not willing to hate someone for their platform choice.

    Good job, those who are. You’re exemplars of our race.

    PC elitists my arse. VG24/7 can be as bad as RPS, except here it’s console elitism. You just can’t get away from the hate and the stupidity, no matter how hard you try.

    #71 7 months ago
  72. DSB

    Would anyone happen to have a really tiny violin? I kinda feel like we need one here.

    #72 7 months ago
  73. Ireland Michael

    “Sometimes it amazes me at how much of an inferiority complex a person is willing to show.”

    Oh, the irony.

    #73 7 months ago
  74. djhazro

    This is news to no one. What Nivida needs to focus on is how they can successfully market their excessively high-priced graphics cards. No matter how much people want to say it’s not, the console market is thriving. The PS4 and Xbox One are selling excellently, and continuing at this rate will be successful for both Microsoft and Sony. The truth is average consumers don’t care about how much a high-end PC can outperform a console. They just want to play good games overall, and as more developers optimize their games to run well on more common hardware, they’re going to care less and less.

    #74 2 months ago
  75. djhazro

    Jesus, Nivida. You act as if graphics are the only thing that matters…

    #75 2 months ago