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SteamOS: who is it for exactly? – opinion

Tuesday, 24th September 2013 10:16 GMT By Dave Cook

SteamOS was announced last night to much excitement across the internet. Now he’s had a chance to sleep on it, VG247′s Dave Cook talks about some of the feedback he’s seen so far.

I absolutely didn’t see SteamOS coming last night. Like many gamers, I watched the countdown on Valve’s teaser site fritter away, fully expecting to see a Steambox console announcement at the end.

Instead, we were introduced to SteamOS, a Linux-based operating system designed to bring Steam into the living room in a more fluid and accessible manner. Valve founder Gabe Newell is a keen admirer of Linux, and its malleable nature, so it’s little surprise to see the company using it as their operating system’s base.

SteamOS is just one of three new announcements due from Valve, so its possible that the Steam Box reveal is currently in the mail. There’s already a sense that the company is keen to tear down the barriers between the old notion of PCs or laptops being resigned to studies or bedrooms, and to establish them as a focal point in the family home.

Key to this vision is the ability to stream content from a SteamOS device to any living room appliance with a screen. I saw a few gamers last night exerting a degree of caution in regards to this promise, seeing as there is a potential for lag between your native device and the receiving screen, but as we all surely know by now, Valve is smart. It’s a company that solves problems and thinks hard about solutions. It’s not infallible of course, but I’m certain Gabe and his posse wouldn’t settle for a mediocre service.

But those raising concerns have a point. Sure, SteamOS streaming isn’t cloud-based, so concerns regarding broadband speed needn’t necessarily apply to the same degree as say, Gaikai. We recently saw Sony’s Shuhei Yoshida expressing doubt over Gaikai’s launch in Europe due to the regions broadband services. I doubt we’ll see the same level of logistical issues with SteamOS, but I think many of you would like to see it running in front of the naked eye first before putting lag concerns to bed. It’s understandable.

Personally, I can’t wait to see SteamOS in action and to try it for myself. It’s free after all, and from what Valve stated yesterday, it seems that it’s a platform engineered with gaming at the forefront. It’s likely it will be robust and support a wide range of gaming tech. With the promise of hundreds of native games coming in 2014, as well as streaming support for Steam’s existing library, it’s going to get off to a solid launch in terms of content alone.

It’s an exciting prospect for someone like me, as I recently saved up for a new gaming rig to use like a console in my living room. With Big Picture mode enabled, I’m having a blast playing Steam games on my telly. So absolutely, SteamOS speaks to me. I can take or leave the promised music, TV and movie services, but they’re a nice little addition for others I’m sure.

All this said and done, I’ve seen a lot of people expressing some confusion as to who, exactly SteamOS is for. Many of them have big, expensive rigs away from their living room and are entirely content to separate their PC space from their living space. Others don’t want a second operating system when they’re already perfectly happy and familiar with Windows, Mac OS, or existing Linux set-ups. For many people, dual-booting two OS at the same time simply isn’t an attractive option.

Does – for argument’s sake – SteamOS offer the same functionality as Windows to the extent that you can swap one OS for the other? Can I run Microsoft Word and Photoshop through it? Can I install Chrome and fire up Spotify? Or is it purely a game and media launcher solely designed for the purpose of streaming content to other devices? Is it actually an alternative to Windows in full, or is it a service to be used on top?

These are all questions I saw raised last night, and while I’m personally not bothered or concerned, I think these are things people really want to know about. I think it largely has to do with how potentially disruptive SteamOS can be. Should it offer a free alternative to Windows, then that potentially breaks a decades-long monopoly on the OS market. It’s exciting and a little unnerving to think about. Most of us know Windows like the back of our hands, so to see something new come along can get us a little nervous.

These are all broad questions and stray observations I made while reading your comments, and those on other sites last night and this morning, so I’m not saying anything concrete here as the jury’s still out.

What I would like to do however is to continue the discussion further. So with that in mind, what do you think of the above?

Let us know below.

At the time of writing. Announcement two will drop in 31 hours.

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105 Comments

  1. Lahanas

    I hope it fails. Consoles must remain the core of the industry.

    #1 12 months ago
  2. Erthazus

    ^ I hope you fail because consoles never were the core of the industry. Never. In fact, they were always behind PC and will stay there for a long time.

    Only now Next Gen started to use ALT-TAB feature. In 2013 what was done 10-15 years ago (depends on the Operating system obviously) and still you can’t launch MULTIPLE Games on your console.

    some of the games in 2013 are not even in 1080p (Ryse is a great example). What the F. is this all about?

    Digital store on both PSN and XBL lacks compared to STEAM and only now console manufacturers embraced the concept of delivering games at launch for every game in 2013. WTF?
    Steam does that since it’s launch.

    #2 12 months ago
  3. GwynbleiddiuM

    Interesting read Dave, thanks. We all know Linux have a lot of potentials it’s an OS with a lot of features albeit not as popular as Windows and not with a lot of support from major application developers. So, a lot of the features that Windows can provide, Linux (Ubuntu mainly since I only used that) can also provide. It’s already there the question is how Valve wants to treat it.

    Is it mainly for entertainment purposes or will it function as an operating system the way Windows function? I think they’d aim for entertainment mainly and the rest of the things they’d support would comes after that and if there’s a large demand for them. After all no one would sit in front of their big living room screen and try to make a powerpoint presentation or writing an article in their office alike app.

    I’m fairly sure the business and entertainment would remain separate from each other. Unless Valve’s targeting for the beast’s head, meaning they just want to break free from Windows and Mac and whatever else that their client depends on. Then they have to bring a full featured Operating System, something that satisfy the majority of the user’s needs. And a free OS just can’t do that as there’s a need for a huge budget and investment, as far as the money is involved I don’t think that’s going to be possible with a free OS. Just look at Microsoft’s Windows’ price ranges.

    #3 12 months ago
  4. Gekidami

    Comment 2 is why i cant take PC gamers seriously, way too many fucktards on the platform. Alt-tab makes a platform the core of an industry… Christ sake…

    Anyway, as i already said, this has near to zero mass market penetration chance. The general public wont care at all, they’ll stick to consoles or game normally on PC.
    Just curious but like with the new consoles, has any non-game related, mass market news media reported on this? Something tells me the answer is no or barely any.

    Who’s it for exactly? The Steam fanboys and the guy above.

    #4 12 months ago
  5. Arnvidr

    As long as we don’t know how it would work, not many conclusions can be drawn, but as someone who is also looking to get a “living room gaming rig”, the prospects are potentially interesting.

    #5 12 months ago
  6. Erthazus

    @4, fucktards? you mean Sony fanboys like you that are playing online 24/7 on the PS3 screaming every day like a kid?

    and so far you don’t know how it works and you can’t make any assumptions or conclusions. SteamOS is not even done yet to begin with.

    Sony fanboys are always full of shit. They know nothing but think they know everything and bash everything that has not to do with their Jack Tretton’s pants.

    #6 12 months ago
  7. viralshag

    Is ALT-TAB even considered a feature haha?

    Some of the games in 2013 aren’t even in 1080p? Some of the games in 2013 aren’t even released on PC. Real core of the industry there, the platform that gets bad ports or sometimes nothing at all.

    #7 12 months ago
  8. silkvg247

    My biggest concern is that I use my machine 80% for gaming and 20% to develop games on / create game graphics.

    I’m all for trying out a new OS but I sincerely doubt I’d be able to use my PC for development with SteamOS – and as you say, I’m not keen on the idea of dual boot either.

    I have a server in the living room mainly for media. It would be cool to stream from my windows gaming PC to the living room, but from what I understand, the server would need to be running SteamOS.. so not practical unless it can do a lot of what Windows does (For a server, at the very minimum: Browse, run torrent software, play any media/codecs, and most importantly allow file sharing and streaming with every PC in the house)

    It’s also my understanding that the source PC in this scenario can be running windows, indeed HAS to be running windows if it isn’t a native SteamOS game. Which is fine, because I think I’d want to keep windows on my main PC due to aformentioned development tasks.

    Hmm I guess in a nutshell then SteamOS is exciting if it can still do what I need my server to be able to do. Basically means that if the streaming works then I can use my server as server AND a living room gaming PC (albeit with 2 machines turned on). I am highly doubtful that SteamOS will be built around server requirements though – especially doubtful that it will be able to see other windows PC file systems in the home (and vice versa).

    #8 12 months ago
  9. Erthazus

    SteamOS first of all embraces the gamer’s own OS. That means that you can expect PC hardware for gamer that can be cheaper and require less hardware specs for games because that OS will only be for games + it’s based on Linux.

    when Windows OS for example requires a ton of memory just for every task there is. For example Windows 7 ULTIMAKE requires 2 GB of ram at minimum to run everything.

    OS will have it’s own unique clan system, graphics settings and stuff that are exclusive to Gamer’s OS. Now there will be no issue with launching STEAM if your PC has issues or Windows that you use just sucks.

    #9 12 months ago
  10. Gekidami

    “so far you don’t know how it works and you can’t make any assumptions or conclusions.”

    “They know nothing but think they know everything and bash everything”

    See what i mean?

    #10 12 months ago
  11. rasmithuk

    It should be interesting but I think their own description of it gives you the best idea of where they’re heading: ‘an operating system built around Steam itself’.

    In other words it’ll boot into Steam and that’s all you’ll every see, just like the Tivo, Android and all the other devices built on Linux, it’ll use it in name but users will never touch it directly.

    #11 12 months ago
  12. silkvg247

    @9 I personally don’t know anyone who uses their PC 100% for gaming.

    #12 12 months ago
  13. Erthazus

    @10, No. I don’t. Go F. yourself. I don’t want to speak with Sony fanboy anymore.

    @12, I agree 100%. That’s why if you WANT you can USE WINDOWS OS.

    Gabe Newell said that you can install Windows on your platform if you want. You can basically change it where you want.

    SteamOS is freakin awesome idea. Gamer’s own OS. You can’t even imagine what community can create with programs that are FOR GAMING.

    #13 12 months ago
  14. lubu

    “who’s it for exactly?”

    eeemmm, uuummmm, ehhhh, errrr ! no one ? gabe ?

    even people that using linux have already a good costumized version of it, maybe some of them that use both linux and steam ? sharing, streaming ? everyone can do them with any OS with any kind of computers out there.

    “when Windows OS for example requires a ton of memory just for every task there is. For example Windows 7 ULTIMAKE requires 2 GB of ram at minimum to run everything.”

    you don’t have a single clue what are you talking of ! i have Win7 Ultimate and it only uses 750mb ram, you can tweak it (ofcurse you can’t because you don’t know shit) or switch to home version

    #14 12 months ago
  15. Erthazus

    You can have pre-installed Twitch on your SteamOS. No more cookies and other annoying stuff. Achievement system will be built in to your OS.
    Console gamer? Well, welcome back because your controls are PRE-INSTALLED on your OS.
    Besides, on consoles you can’t mark every button on your controller (at least I don’t have a single game that does that. Example: I have GTAV and it offers Standard-Alternative-another input and another and that’s it.)

    there are a lot of possibilities.

    and important thing that you can launch every game out on every system you have at home or you can launch at your friends house with your account.

    Gamer’s OS is a brilliant idea… and you know what? YOU Don’t have to pay a single dime for it. You can play multiplayer games for FREE.

    #15 12 months ago
  16. Gekidami

    You know, i just realised the hilarity and the classic PC fanboy hypocrisy about this whole thing. Suddenly a dedicated games OS will boost performance without having the need for higher end specs… About a month ago however when everyone was talking about the PS4 & XB1 specs, the fact they have OS’ dedicated to gaming (because thats what they have, same for every console) was a moot point.

    I guess this goes hand in hand with “Pads and consoles suck”/”I cant wait to play on a Steam console on my couch!”.

    #16 12 months ago
  17. Erthazus

    Consoles does not have OS dedicated for gaming you fool. It has half-assed a collection of software that manages computer hardware resources and provides common gaming experience.

    Can you change and use the game you bought for your advantage? No. You can’t. End of Story.

    Stupid console fanboys does not even know how gaming machine works.

    P.S. you know how early PS3 devkits worked? Of course you don’t. Early devkits don’t even had SOFTWARE for games development. It was black screen and command Promt. In other words fuck you and connect PC/Linux/Windows for games development.

    #17 12 months ago
  18. monkeygourmet

    I really welcome anything like this that shakes things up at the moment.

    Im a long term console gamer, but find the ‘next gen’ very lacklustre at the moment. Mainly from a hardware perspective. The PS4 is looking the best bet but only because of the pricing. Specs are pretty poor for a console that has to last 8 years IMO.

    The less said about MS’s ‘media attempt’ the better. I don’t think asking for 1080p and a locked 60fps was much to ask for after all the wait.

    Im not even sure games like BF4 will run at 1080p, it feels like these consoles are ‘out of date’ before they have even released. Given that the PS4 is so easy to make games for, im suprised they seem to be struggling with locking down framerates and resolution at launch.

    Ryse being a good example, locked at 900p is hardly something to be proud of for a £429 console.

    It’ll be really good to see where they are going with the Steam OS and if they have any deals with NVIDIA etc.

    I don’t think Valve would have gone into this venture unless it was confident in what they can achieve in the PC gaming space. Anything that can free up power in Graphics and enable people to get more out of their tech is a good thing, no?

    #18 12 months ago
  19. viralshag

    They’re expanding the PC market by becoming more like a console. Love it.

    #19 12 months ago
  20. lubu

    @15

    “when Windows OS for example requires a ton of memory just for every task there is. For example Windows 7 ULTIMAKE requires 2 GB of ram at minimum to run everything.”

    you don’t have a single clue what are you talking of ! i have Win7 Ultimate and it only uses 750mb ram, you can tweak it (ofcurse you can’t because you don’t know shit) or switch to home version

    #20 12 months ago
  21. Dave Cook

    @6 “playing online 24/7 on the PS3 screaming every day like a kid?”

    I think you seriously have a warped view about the type of people who play games online.

    You act like every single online console gamer is a foul-mouthed prick. I play CoD regularly online and very rarely have I heard anyone be loud, abrasive or homophobic. It’s such a rare thing *in my experience*.

    Tarring us all with one brush is silly. Just saying.

    #21 12 months ago
  22. Gekidami

    Annnnd Erthazus shows us he has no idea what an Operating System is. Good on you, tech guru.

    “Consoles does not have OS dedicated for gaming you fool. It has half-assed a collection of software that manages computer hardware resources and provides common gaming experience.”

    “An operating system (OS) is a collection of software that manages computer hardware resources and provides common services for computer programs. The operating system is an essential component of the system software in a computer system. Application programs usually require an operating system to function.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system

    Huh-duh.

    #22 12 months ago
  23. foofly

    Reading these comments it seems people don’t really understand what this is.

    It looks like Valve are targeting existing Steam users. These people already have systems good enough to run what they want. What Valve are trying to do is bring their PC ecosystem to a place that it generally home to the console.

    This is not a replacement for your PC, this will (I assume) be a debian based system, mainly because that’s their target OS (particularly Ubuntu).

    It’s main purpose is to sit under your tv. If it can play native Linux games in steam, then great. Everything else will be streamed from your existing system.

    #23 12 months ago
  24. Erthazus

    @Dave cook, Of course not. The only problem that 90% of people that I met were kids. That’s why I don’t play online on my console and I won’t play GTAV Online on my PS3 or I will be called a prick because I killed some kid.

    It’s not like PC is a heaven but at least you can REPORT that guy and he is going to get some issues with his gamer’s account or for example in Dota2 you won’t get items for 2 weeks and you can’t speak for some time.

    @22, Yeah. Read more Wikipedia and learn SOMETHING. Consoles does ot have it’s own OS. They never had one.
    Only Xbox 360 had Half-assed Windows 2000 and it;s not a OS. It’s something in between. It’s a big pile of code that runs your games on your 360.

    #24 12 months ago
  25. viralshag

    Trying to make out that the online community is better on the PC than consoles is a totally wasted effort. You get idiots no matter where you game.

    #25 12 months ago
  26. broketm

    Foremost I think it’s important to note SteamOs isn’t Valve trying for a piece of the market. It’s Valve trying to move the PC-Gamer market away from Windows platform. Linux based laptops and netbooks (Ubuntu, Chromebook) are already on a strong rise. And in the tablet market Windows is almost negligible. The reason behind this, is in my opinion the price of Windows, and it’s reputation in terms of security, stability etc. These devices aren’t dedicated to do jobs only a Windows machine can do. Valve is trying to do the same for the gaming desktop with SteamOs.

    Linux with WINE, is already able to run many popular Windows native software, and there’s plenty Linux alternatives that do a commendable job. I assume since SteamOs is a linux-based OS, it will do all that aswel.

    I don’t believe SteamOs will replace Windows as production enviroment, at least not any time soon. But for anyone who just needs a rig for gaming, browsing the web, and watching things. SteamOs sounds like a very viable option. And gamers who just use their desktop thusly at home, vastly outnumber those who also use it as a “production station”.

    If you ask me, this isn’t a futile effort if Valve makes SteamOs Native development so simple and easy (and cheap), developers don’t even have to think twice about doing it.

    #26 12 months ago
  27. monkeygourmet

    @27

    Generally a higher entry price can exclude / limit children though.

    Although, ironically, Steam OS is free.

    #27 12 months ago
  28. Gekidami

    @25
    Its funny you should say that online console gaming is full of swearing kids, i mean you’re obviously a paradigm of manners:

    “Stupid console fanboys”
    “In other words fuck you”
    “Go F. yourself.”
    “Sony fanboys are always full of shit.”
    “What the F. is this all about?”

    And thats just from these comments. I’d assume people call you a prick online because you act in a game like you do on here, which is to say; like a prick.

    And consoles dont have OS’? Wow.

    #28 12 months ago
  29. monkeygourmet

    Im still getting my head around this, but does this ring true:

    If I have a gaming rig with Windows 8 & Steam OS installed I can ‘dual boot’ right?

    Now, if a game is compatible with Steam OS (Witcher 3, hypothetically) and I play it through Steam OS, will I see a potential increase in performance?

    #29 12 months ago
  30. Llewelyn_MT

    Since It’s Linux, you will most likely be able to install it on a miniscule computer that can Stream HD graphics. By today’s standards it’s relatively cheap and small piece of hardware.

    #30 12 months ago
  31. rasmithuk

    @31
    Q: If I have a gaming rig with Windows 8 & Steam OS installed I can ‘dual boot’ right?
    A: Yes, but don’t expect it to be a single click process.

    Q: …I play it through Steam OS, will I see a potential increase in performance?
    A: Possibly. In theory, as there’s less in-between the game and the hardware they can get better performance. Some hardware will be better supported by each system so there’s probably no generic answer.

    #31 12 months ago
  32. monkeygourmet

    @33

    Thanks. :)

    It’s free anyway, so it will be good to see what it can offer!

    #32 12 months ago
  33. Johnnymaxx

    You know, there are moments when I decide to read the comments to expand my knowledge by reading what other people thinks, but I’m usually depressed after the firs 2 or 3 comments. Take this thread for instance. The first commentary was ridiculous, but then comes Erthazus and make it everything even worse, and the whole comment section comes back to the same old “I’m better than you, you like to use other thing so you are lame” bla bla bla…

    Erthazus, really, you are the reason why I believe that comments sections should be removed from every internet news site. It was created for a purpose, to let people talk and get heard, but people fumbled it by not using it correctly, so screw it.

    @Topic, I found it a really… weird move from Valve. They are smart, of course, and they must have a good plan to do what they are doing and they must have done some research. But I’m not seeing any advantage from this. Steambox I can get. Like Dave says, Steambox works for me, that also plugged my current pc gear on a 42 inches telly in order to play some Steam games that I would purchase in Steam Summer Sale way cheaper than I would buy it for my PS3. However, a new OS… doesn’t appeal to me at all, and I don’t see advantages for developper either. But hey, Valve has earned our trust and let’s just wait to see the full picture in a few days or months.

    Right now, I believe that SteamOS will be the OS installed on the future Steam Box (or Gabecube as my friends are calling it), and that is it. It is like if Sony went on a press event and talk about the OS they use on PS4 and such.

    #33 12 months ago
  34. absolutezero

    Jesus Christ its 20 fucking 13 and there are still platform wars.

    Fuck me what a bunch of cunts.

    #34 12 months ago
  35. noamlol2

    it’s still linux based
    meaning it WILL need more games running on linux

    get to work valve, the library size of linux is pathetic

    #35 12 months ago
  36. _LarZen_

    I have no idea who this Steam console is for. PC gamers that dislike consoles so much hardly will buy it. Well that is if not the double standard kicks in at high gear that is.

    And console gamers do not need a Steam Box.

    And I do not see why developers would bother porting over their games to Steam OS. Windows have and will probably always have a bigger user base.

    #36 12 months ago
  37. Ekona

    I’d just like to know who they’re targetting. Are they aiming for the folks who want an easy solution, i.e. the current range of console gamers? Are they aiming for the techy PC folks who understand the differences between various OS? Are they aiming for the part-time PC gamer who doesn’t really get the tech stuff, but likes playing the latest CoD even if on low settings?

    It’s really not clear right now, and unless there’s a group of people out there that I’m missing then I think I struggle to see the target audience for this.

    #37 12 months ago
  38. monkeygourmet

    @35

    This?

    http://www.gabecube.com/main.png

    #38 12 months ago
  39. monkeygourmet

    Also, aren’t they working on a pad / motion control device?

    Not this:

    http://kotaku.com/5890372/is-this-valves-control-pad-design/

    but along those lines?

    With Steam OS, a Pad, and eventually the Steam Box, it looks like we have a new challenger incoming!

    #39 12 months ago
  40. Max Payne

    @39 Actually , all of them eventually.
    But for now its just for early adopters and people who love to experiment and people who need streaming options.

    #40 12 months ago
  41. SplatteredHouse

    Erth, quit pulling information out of the realm of fiction.
    As for this cowboyOS, I just imagine that you turn it on and then have to direct a hyper-stylised cursor to the equivalent of a big green circular “play” button. You know, because they’ve given us nothing else to go on.
    If in reality the explanation for it is as simple as Dave’s latter suggestion, then all that Microsoft would need do to counter it is to add a little extra functionality to enable streaming of programs, to their free WMC app.

    #41 12 months ago
  42. monkeygourmet

    @43

    I assume it will be more understandable after the other announcements?

    I guess this was the first step and let things sink in before showing how everything will work?

    #42 12 months ago
  43. pcbros

    @18 – “Im a long term console gamer, but find the ‘next gen’ very lacklustre at the moment.”

    +1

    This is the first time in all my years of gaming (since Atari 5200), that I have not been excited about a new console launch. Usually I’m really excited about at least ONE of the main consoles (Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft). But I’m just not feeling it this year. Nothing screams, “buy me!”.

    I was actually most excited about the Wii U price drop and Zelda bundle, but now I’m kind of waiting to see if a Super Mario 3D World bundle rolls along :)

    @38, @39 – No one really knows who this is for until all the announcements are made or atleast until they reveal the “Steambox” (if one really exists).

    Right now we are all speculating.

    #43 12 months ago
  44. SplatteredHouse

    @44 There has been no ‘step’ though. They’ve followed Square Enix’s poor “please be excite!” example. There’s nothing to go on, yet we’re supposed to presume the purpose?

    #44 12 months ago
  45. pcbros

    @46 – No step? They announced the SteamOS and talked about some of the features.

    Did Sony not take a step back in February even though they did not show the Playstation 4, reveal it’s price or release date? Of course they did.

    And atleast Valve revealed the price of the SteamOS ;)

    #45 12 months ago
  46. Old MacDonald

    4: Though to be fair, whenever we see your name in a PC-thread we know you’re going to act like a “fucktard” yourself. I don’t understand what it is about the PC as a gaming platform that you hate so much, but you’re basically Loki with more words.

    #46 12 months ago
  47. Mike W

    While the OS is definitely interesting, especially if it turns out to be true if it can increase the performance of every game regardless of what PC you have. However, I still think a lot of you guys are jumping the gun here. There’s still a lot of unanswered questions.

    The main important one is; for people like myself that already have a beastly rig, why do I need any additional hardware (if any) from Valve? Especially if this OS is going to be free.

    2. What are these triple A titles that are being developed on steam and if so what is stopping the community from purchasing that title off their steam account or do we need this mystery hardware (if any)?

    You guys need to wait and see what else is going to be announce and please stop listening to Erthazus. He/she is fucking a fool and an idiot.

    #47 12 months ago
  48. SplatteredHouse

    @47: Sony announcements in February: http://www.destructoid.com/here-s-all-the-news-from-today-s-playstation-4-reveal-246145.phtml Enough to light a firecracker under Microsoft that exploded at E3! By comparison, Valve removed a cherry bomb from its packet, yesterday.

    #48 12 months ago
  49. monkeygourmet

    @51

    I agree that their are lots of things left unanswered, but it seems like rather than take the; ‘lets wait and see’ approach, people are already saying why this won’t work.

    Simply, we don’t know enough about any of this yet.

    #49 12 months ago
  50. smoke.tetsu

    “Or is it purely a game and media launcher solely designed for the purpose of streaming content to other devices?” I think the key word should be “from” not “to”. They said it streams games from other PCs. That’s its answer to backwards compatibility it seems. Its main functions seem to be to play native Linux games and stream games from Windows or Mac. Valve is working on getting more studios to support it natively.

    #50 12 months ago
  51. Mike W

    @38

    So true, I keep going on these forums and everybody keeps saying this a game changer. I’m so confuse how a free OS that nobody has a clue how it works (except Vavle) is a game changer?

    Now before any brain surgeon comes here and say that I’m being hater or fanboy, please let me stop you. I’m not bashing this annoucement in any shape or form, I’m simply saying there’s no reason for anyone to get excited for something they really have no clue about.

    #51 12 months ago
  52. monkeygourmet

    Whatever this is… It has to start somewhere, and, I suppose the OS is the best place too start! :)

    @54

    Or too bash it. :)

    #52 12 months ago
  53. powerbuoy

    I love Steam and so far I have a lot of faith in Valve, but a couple of things concern me about this:

    1) Will it be Steam only? Or will it be an open platform? Because if it’s Steam only it’ll pretty much just be another closed console.

    2) Library. There’s no way my lib of Windows games will work out of the box. And without games no-one’s going to use this, and if no-one’s using it no games will come out for it.

    What I find somewhat exciting though is that if this thing isn’t too resource heavy (Linux doesn’t tend to be) then theoretically you could use something like the Raspberry PI as a “Steam box” and just stream from your normal comp to every TV in the house.

    #53 12 months ago
  54. rasmithuk

    @56 Seeing as Valve want games to run natively on SteamOS I wouldn’t bet on a Raspberry Pi version. If they brought a license to allow the use of the video decode module in the CPU then it could probably do the streaming.
    As for native games, the ARM core in the Pi is pretty gutless, even my D510 Atom CPU is about 9 times faster on simple floating point ray-intersect code (I was bored, and don’t even talk about compiling C++ on it).

    #54 12 months ago
  55. Cobra951

    I have no interest in daisychaining 2 computers to get PC games into my living room. If the game doesn’t run on the TV box, I’ll play it on the desktop box. But the prospect of Linux finally getting a boost into consumer visibility and usability does interest me. The news is exciting so far, but we need more details. If it’s dedicated to Steam, rather than being a full-blown OS with Steam integrated, my interest will fade quickly.

    #55 12 months ago
  56. CyberMarco

    Firstly @Erth, man you are delusional. I’m still waiting to hear how you can play any AAA games at “any resolution you want” with a budget PC?

    Do you understand the difference of a budget (400-500$) gaming console that will last for at least 5-7 years and deliver a solid experience along its lifespan and a dedicated gaming-PC that ranges from ~700$ to 1000$+?

    Next time use a bit of your brain, if there is that is…

    On topic, as I said in the announcement post, if Valve is creating a PC-gaming dedicated OS with a primary focus on making games more optimized for it compared to a Windows OS with the same hardware then it’s a great concept. It could be the separation of a multi-purpose everyday-life PC and a dedicated gaming-PC and making the latter a more solid entry in the industry and hardware manufacturers could create more efficient hardware too.

    But if Valve is trying to make a dedicated SteamBox running SteamOS (which I suppose you could run Windows on it too) then why should I buy it if I already have an upgradeable PC? I could already run SteamOS on my PC since it’s free.

    On the other hand, if the SteamBox is just an “additional” device for allowing me to stream a non-SteamOS game (and presumable impossible to run natively on the SteamBox) from my Windows PC to my SteamBox sitting in the living room or anywhere else (ala PS Vita TV and PS4 remote play) then it shouldn’t cost more than 100$, if not less than 70-80$.

    Anyhow I’m curious to see what Valve is cooking…

    #56 12 months ago
  57. Dragon246

    ^He was always delusional. Just read his blabbering on any page.

    In isolation, this idea seems hardly noteworthy to me, however it would be rather silly to assume anything without knowing about the other 2 announcements.

    #57 12 months ago
  58. DSB

    @59 In terms of “why do I need it”. You can say the same thing for a console.

    I have a highpowered gaming rig, but I do dabble in some couch gaming every now and then.

    Of course it helps that a console has EAs sportsgames and stuff like Red Dead Redemption, and that’s a minus for the Steambox, but in my case, with a Steambox I’d be able to have a friend over who has his own Steam account, and we’d be able to play online together on two different screens, without ever having to set up another rig.

    #58 12 months ago
  59. CyberMarco

    @61

    I don’t think that you can make a direct comparison of console and PC gaming. At least for me my PC and my PS3 give me different gaming experiences.

    I was implying the “why do I need it” for someone who already has a gaming PC. As I said, if the SteamBox is just a steaming-enabled devide where you can stream your Steam library to it then it could be a nice little gadget. Maybe the SteamBox will have several versions, a streaming-only device, a PC/SteamOS/console hybrid with mid-high hardware and a high-end hardware box. In other words, maybe you can create your own “SteamBox” with the SteamOS.

    #59 12 months ago
  60. monkeygourmet

    @62

    It needs to have 3 ‘tiers’ max IMO.

    As you said:

    1. Streaming

    2. Mid Range (Still runs pretty much all games but maybe 1080p / 60fps medium settings)

    3. High range, 1080p / 60 FPS full fat, and higher res if you want.

    The hardware would have to be easily upgradable. I think having a great CPU would mean only the RAM and GPU would need changing for a good while.

    If you could easily slot that out, you could easily upgrade in the future. Having a 3 tier system means Steam OS could easily configure what type of system you were running and sort games accordingly.

    i.e: You have a Tier 2 system, you can run these games…… (list).

    That way the Steambox would bridge the gap between console and high end players. On a tier 2 system you would have access to 100o’s of AAA and Indie games straight away.

    The main problem with this would be th GPU / Memory partnership? Could be tricky as having too many variables means you’ve got a PC in your hands again.

    It’s a tricky problem to get around but i’m interested to see what reveal 2 & 3 are and why they dumped the Piston X3.

    #60 12 months ago
  61. DSB

    @62 I don’t totally understand how they could give you different gaming experiences though.

    Most of the titles on the PC are ported from consoles.

    @63 Piston was way too expensive. It’s not just restricted to PC gamers, it’s restricted to hardcore, rich PC gamers.

    #61 12 months ago
  62. CyberMarco

    @64 I play both on PC and PS3 because each platform has its own benefits and games. For example, I prefer playing FPS games on PC with m/k and prefer playing online on PC because there is a text-chat system and you can communicate easier. I play on my PS3 for the exclusives (console and PS3 ones) like KH, MGS etc.

    Personally if I wasn’t in need of a computer back in 2009-2010 for my university studies I wouldn’t invest in PC gaming that much. And as I was looking around for a PC I thought why not put some more € to make it a decent gaming rig. Plus with Steam/Amazon sales and indie bundles I have a great bang for my buck.

    With console on the other hand, I like to buy physical games for my collection and play games that aren’t available on PC.

    @monkey, yeah something along those lines.

    #62 12 months ago
  63. pcbros

    After analising Valve’s announcement yesterday, I have come down to a few conclusions:

    “It will be available soon as a free stand-alone operating system for living room machines.”

    The fact that it’s intended to run in living rooms, tells me that it will initially not be a desktop replacement (no word processing, video editing, etc).

    But the next statement makes you wonder about the possibilities.

    “Users can alter or replace any part of the software or hardware they want.”

    It’s interesting that it mentions you can “alter or replace any part of the software”.

    From my perspective, this means the SteamOS will be an open platform. Essentially you can keep it as a gaming OS or possible make it into a desktop replacement

    “In SteamOS, we have achieved significant performance increases in graphics processing”

    This could possibly mean that they can do more with a GTX660 than Microsoft Windows can. In other words, you will need less raw power to achieve good performance. This in turn equals less expensive hardware required to play games (this would be a big plus if true).

    Granted it will not be a huge difference, but they did say it’s a “significant performance increase”.

    “Game developers are already taking advantage of these gains as they target SteamOS for their new releases… Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014.”

    They atleast have some developers already creating games for the SteamOS. And they specifically mentioned “AAA titles”, so this should be interesting.

    - – - – -

    So it’s safe to conclude that the Steambox will not be a “Streambox”. It will be a standalone product capable of running games on it’s own. No doubt you can build your own “Steambox” and essentially make it a simple box for streaming your games or a powerhouse stand-alone gaming machine. I expect other manufacturers to make their versions of Steambox as well.

    #63 12 months ago
  64. Max Payne

    @66 Well if PS4 is x86 and Open GL , its basically half work done ?

    #64 12 months ago
  65. pcbros

    @67 – I would assume so… if you think about it, the PS4 and SteamOS/Steambox are not that different.

    #65 12 months ago
  66. beepboop

    @59 A console is no cheaper than a gaming PC when you factor in multiplayer and more expensive games. Considering that consoles are less powerful with less features, this makes them a downright ripoff.

    Think about it. $400 PS4, $400 for 8 years of PS+, and let’s say, for 30 games over 8 years (not even 4 games a year), 30 $45 PC games vs 30 $60 console games is a $450 difference. That’s $1250 on PS4 right there. That’s the cost of a $900-1000 PC and a gpu upgrade down the line, for the price of an out of date console + multiplayer + more expensive games.

    And yes, you can easily assume $45 average for PC games. Batman Arkham Origins you can get right now on GMG for PC for $37.50 while it is $60 on console. Highly anticipated games like Titanfall and BF4 are $48 on gmg, and you can bet there will be very few discounts on them for a while. Plenty of other recent games like SRIV can be bought for $40 on PC, Payday 2 for $24, etc. And that’s just new/recent titles. Games that have been out for a while get better sales and sales more often on PC too, including Steam sales and Humble Bundles, where you can get up to 10 games for $1. That’s 60 games for under $10.

    The fact that a PC can easily be the same price or less than a console just says how much of a ripoff console is when PC blows away consoles graphically, with support for mods, more precise controls and more control options, more exclusives including entire exclusive genres, cheaper games, more game sales, free multiplayer, backwards compatibility, customization, ability to upgrade, etc, for the same price. And a PC does much, much more than just games, Netflix and Skype. Guess what? Even if PC is the same price, you’ve already gotten far more out of it than a console. And when it’s cheaper, well…it just means consoles are even more of a ripoff.

    #66 12 months ago
  67. Phoenixblight

    @68

    They are very different. Just because its Linux doesn’t mean they have the same libraries and functions just like Chrome OS and android. They are linux based in the sense they use the Linux kernel but outside of that everything is proprietary.

    I would suspect that SteamOS is very similar to Ubuntu because that is what they had worked on when they were making steam for linux which is very open and allows you to change anything where the PS4 will be using something that won’t be open and will use proprietary stuff.

    @69

    Lots of generalizations there.
    1) Assuming that every person gets a game on launch
    2) Forgetting about rental services like Gamefly and Redbox
    3) Forgetting about the free games PSN offers.
    4) Not every game allows modding
    5) You assume that the market will stay the same over the years

    #67 12 months ago
  68. pcbros

    @70 – I don’t know anything about their libraries or functions, so I will not comment. I’ll take your word on that.

    Either way, if the XB1, PS4 and PC are all such different beasts and developers have no issues porting their games to all three platforms… one more (SteamOS) won’t hurt too bad ;)

    In the end, it all depends on what they announce this week and how it’s received. We have no clue what deals they have going on or what’s their roadmap.

    Can’t wait for tomorrow…

    Edit: Call me a wishful thinker, but Linux is good for computing… period. Second, anything that even helps PC gaming by any means or measure is a plus in my book. Linux + PC Gaming = :D

    I’m currently in the process of building a gaming PC (on paper) and spending $100 for Windows is not my preference. I rather spend the $100 on a better video card.

    #68 12 months ago
  69. Phoenixblight

    “Either way, if the XB1, PS4 and PC are all such different beasts and developers have no issues porting their games to all three platforms… one more (SteamOS) won’t hurt too bad ;)”

    Each port costs money and not a couple hundred thousand but millions and Valve has to make it stupidly easy for games to be developed from the windows to SteamOS or companies won’t bother if they have create a specialized workflow just for that OS.

    #69 12 months ago
  70. beepboop

    @70 1. I mentioned older games i.e. not launch, where prices on PC are still cheaper.
    2. Rental services are nice, but I like supporting the developers who make the games. If I didn’t want to support them, I’d pirate games, which makes them all free. If I’m not going to support devs, I may as well pirate and then make a donation to my local Gamestop.
    3. You don’t keep them when you end your subscription, and you’re still paying $60 a year for them. Like I mentioned, you can get 60 games in Humble Bundles for less than 1/6 the cost of a year of PS+.
    4. Better than no games allowing modding on console.
    5. I don’t think game prices are going to change anytime soon. They haven’t for the past 8 years, and if they change at all in the next 8 years, it will only be up.

    The fact remains that there are very plausible scenarios which will be true for a lot of console gamers (play multiplayer, buy 4+ new games a year or like to buy older games on sale) where PC will be the same price or cheaper while also offering more powerful hardware with better graphics, more features, and just generally more quality. Console is a ripoff that has very few reasons to justify it. One, of course, is exclusives.

    #70 12 months ago
  71. Phoenixblight

    @73

    I did all the math for the games I bought on my Ps3 compared to the PC I bought and it came cheaper on the PS3 within just of 5 years of owning one. Funny that. Again you assume a lot of things.

    “2. Rental services are nice, but I like supporting the developers who make the games.”

    Nice so you go after price and how it is “cheaper” so I bring an argument that would make things cheaper for console gamers and you discredit it because it doesn’t support the developer.

    You are just a PC elitist with a hard on for bashing consoles.

    #71 12 months ago
  72. CyberMarco

    @69 I’m a dedicated PC gamer, so spare me the lecture. All those things seems too complicated to the average joe. I built my PC on my own, dedicated a great chunk of my time to understand how PC hardware works, find the best solution etc. So yeah, with a console you insert the disc and you are good to go.

    Also, who said you must pay 60$ for a new game day-1? I surely don’t, so that case is nulled. Also, pro tip, you can already find a BF4 key for 40$ from several CD-key sites.

    I’m pissed too for PS4 requiring PS+ for online multiplayer, but good thing is I’m already a PS+ subscriber so no harm for me, but can understand the general reaction.

    Also, to built a PC you must pay up-front a big amount of money, so that is another thing to take notice.

    #72 12 months ago
  73. beepboop

    @75 All those things seem too complicated? What things? Do you mean the planning ahead and adding up the prices of a machine and games? Because that’s all I did in my comment.

    If you’re referring to building a PC, which I didn’t even mention, then yes that can be pretty complicated. But you can buy a perfectly good pre-built PC as well. The only difference will be that for the same price, it will be a little bit weaker than if you had built it yourself. It will still beat any console by far though.

    And yes, there’s something to be said for convenience, but is it worth getting a weaker product with less features for more money? I suppose to some it will be.

    And again, I mentioned old games too. “And that’s just new/recent titles. Games that have been out for a while get better sales and sales more often on PC too, including Steam sales and Humble Bundles, where you can get up to 10 games for $1. That’s 60 games for under $10.” See that part?

    @74 PS3 became cheaper within just five years? I can tell your math is wrong right there. PCs become cheaper with time, not consoles. Consoles are cheaper from day one and get more expensive.

    #73 12 months ago
  74. Javinator

    PS4 seems to be crashing alot:
    https://twitter.com/yosp/statuses/382351919668146176

    #74 12 months ago
  75. Javinator

    Plus, you still can NOT change your Username on PS4:

    http://www.examiner.com/article/psn-id-change-on-ps4-very-complex-sony-not-replacing-psn-ids

    ———————–
    PSN ID change on PS4 ‘very complex’, Sony not replacing PSN IDs

    September 22, 2013

    Those who have outgrown their current PlayStation 3 or PlayStation Vita username will be sad to learn that you may be stuck with it for another console generation – well, unless you create an entirely new account. On Sept. 20 during an interview with Game Informer, Shuhei Yoshida, president of Sony’s worldwide studios, spoke on the topic of PS4 usernames and PSN IDs.

    As many are aware, the PlayStation 4 will allow you to have your real name attached to your profile and account – though one can adjust who can see their name and limit it to strictly friends. When it comes to changing your PSN ID, Shuhei Yoshida acknowledges that it is a common request and wishes it was something the company could say yes to. However, it seems that doing so is “very technically complex” and it may not be offered.

    While speaking with Game Informer, Yoshida was asked the following question:

    We heard Sony is giving users the option to use their real name in place of their PSN IDs. Does this require users to change their PSN ID?

    He replied, “We are not replacing [PSN IDs], but we are adding another option for people to input their own real name. They have some control of how their real name is exposed to everyone or friends. It’s actually a common question that I’ve been asked is ‘Can I change my PSN ID?’ That’s a very common request, and I wish we could say ‘Yes, you can”, but it’s very technically complex.”

    #75 12 months ago
  76. Phoenixblight

    @77

    I bought a prebuilt PC for 600 3 years ago since then I have bought a new GPU 660Ti, power supply and some fans, making it close to 1000$. I bought a Ps3(300$) back in spring 2009. I own a total of 15 games that which none of I bought at full price even GTA V I got for 20$ because I had a 45$ voucher from amazon. So average it out at 30$ a game which comes to 450. Right there over a period of 4 years I have just came to the cost of PC at the original price. I will add in 2 years of PSN plus which comes to additional 100$ look at that still it is not touching the cost of my PC. I would have to buy 4-5 games at full cost to match it that is ignoring the games that I have bought through steam sales and such on the PC.

    #76 12 months ago
  77. pcbros

    @80 – That GTX660Ti is much closer to a PS4′s power than a PS3 (definitely eats the PS3 for breakfast). So you would need to add the cost of a PS4/XB1 to your figure or subtract your upgrade.

    Second, if we are not talking about NEW release purchases, then a PC gamer could say he waits for a Steam sale and buys all his games at an average of $5-$10 a game, which is my case. I have NEVER paid more than $15 for a PC game… the only game I bought for $15 was The Cave and I did it to support Double Fine. All other games under $10 :)

    And a PC adds functionality a console doesn’t. You guys are comparing a full desktop capable of editing music, creating animations, developing games, word processing and a completely open platform to a console designed only to play games and some media.

    Comparing which is cheaper is not the real argument. Which one is a better value would be a better comparison.

    EDIT: Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not saying one is better. Just saying this comparison doesn’t make sense. If the Steambox becomes gaming only machine with basic media functions, then we can compare it to consoles.

    #77 12 months ago
  78. Phoenixblight

    “That GTX660Ti is much closer to a PS4′s power than a PS3 (definitely eats the PS3 for breakfast). So you would need to add the cost of a PS4/XB1 to your figure or subtract your upgrade.”

    Not really as I am buying a new PC within the next year that allows me to get a new CPU which I then will just take the 660TI and sell it for a new card especially if what is said about the next gen nvidia cards are said to do. My PC is used for work and next gen I am stopping PC gaming unless its a MMO or a FPS. PS4 will get a lot of use out me and my family especially once we get a new TV so I can place the PS3 and old TV in the bedroom.

    “And a PC adds functionality a console doesn’t. You guys are comparing a full desktop capable of editing music, creating animations, developing games, word processing and a completely open platform to a console designed only to play games and some media.”

    beepboop, was going from the gamer angle which is what I was refuting also I want to add with netbox, chromebooks and tablets there is becoming less of a need for a desktop. If I didn’t work with my PC I would have gotten rid of it long ago with what is being offered. PC gaming is starting to become more of a headache than its worth so many games I had to spend hours troubleshooting and figuring out why it wasn’t playing properly because of it being a bad port.

    #78 12 months ago
  79. sebastien rivas

    My intetest in steambox grows if only to compete with microsoft/mac OS through partial use of Linux.
    I am excited to hear the specs of he machine as well as knowing how this is going to turn :)

    #79 12 months ago
  80. pcbros

    @82 – My point was just that you can’t compare the price of a PC with a GTX660Ti to a PS3. I own a AMD Athlon 64 (single core), 2GB RAM & 9600GT PC, and games like Batman Arkham City run and look better on this old dinosaur computer than it did on my Xbox 360.

    “I am buying a new PC within the next year that allows me to get a new CPU which I then will just take the 660TI and sell it for a new card especially if what is said about the next gen nvidia cards are said to do… My PC is used for work and next gen I am stopping PC gaming”

    I’m confused, why are you selling your GTX660Ti and upgrading your video card if you are going to quit PC gaming?

    “I want to add with netbox, chromebooks and tablets there is becoming less of a need for a desktop”

    It’s like saying, with the rise of smartphones/tablets, there is less of a need for a console or dedicated gaming device.

    Also, there are tons of software that will not run on those basic computers. Second, none of those will play any serious games neither. I’m all for the tablet revolution but even when tablets offer a FULL desktop experience (not a handicapped one), it’s still a PC in a smaller box. Steam will run on it. So not sure why the less-probable extinction of desktops has any effect on PC gaming.

    If anything, when tablets like the Windows Surface Pro tablets become more main streamed, reasonably priced and offer performance on par with desktops, they will in fact HELP PC gaming. Steam on the go? Heck ya! ;)

    Anyways, sorry to hear about your PC gaming woes, but I’ve been gaming for a while now (since DOS) and I don’t recall having ANY real problems playing my games in the last 5 years, unless you are talking pre-Windows XP.

    Currently, I just load up Steam, buy a game, download it and I’m immediately playing. No complaints.

    @83 – I hear you! Why anyone would want to see Linux fail is beyond me…

    #80 12 months ago
  81. Phoenixblight

    “I’m confused, why are you selling your GTX660Ti and upgrading your video card if you are going to quit PC gaming?”

    I use my PC for work. I don’t use the GPU just for gaming that just so happens to be a perk. My job gives me bonus every 2 years to update my machine.

    “Also, there are tons of software that will not run on those basic computers.”

    Who needs it? average joe doesn’t care about not being able to run autocad or Maya, max, or production software. They just need it to browse the net, word processing, and watch videos. You can just use a game console for games. 400$ console, 100-300$ for a tablet and you are set. Average joe can care less about having a desktop to play games because he has a device that does it and he doesn’t have to worry about maintaining his PC. THat is the truth and you can see that with hardware sales for the PC front taking a dive because of the tablet movement.

    #81 12 months ago
  82. pcbros

    @85 – “Who needs it? average joe doesn’t care about not being able to run autocad or Maya, max, or production software.”

    The average joe doesn’t need a $400/$500 dedicated gaming console neither. The majority of people game on their smartphone.

    If you want to target the casual PC user and not the hardcore user, then you have to compare it to the casual gamer and not the hardcore gamer.

    “the tablet movement”

    Yep, it’s coming.

    Eventually tablets will offer performance comparable to desktops and will run full operating systems (Windows Surface already does).

    When that happens, people will be able to run Steam games (or any PC game) on it. So the real question is, when a person is able to play games on their tablet that look as good as console games… who will be buying consoles?

    I personally think that dedicated game consoles will die out soon, everything points to consoles becoming more like PCs in the future. Every year Sony & Microsoft have to add other features (like apps and social media) because they know the average person is not willing to pay over $400 just to play games.

    #82 12 months ago
  83. Phoenixblight

    “The average joe doesn’t need a $400/$500 dedicated gaming console neither. The majority of people game on their smartphone.”

    You can’t play COD, BF, Madden, Halo, GTA on a smartphone.

    #83 12 months ago
  84. beepboop

    @80 Why would you ignore the costs of games you bought on Steam? Seriously, either compare new with new or old with old. New console games are more expensive than new PC games. Old console games are more expensive than old PC games. If you assume $30 average for games you buy because you get them on sale, PC has better sales so you could assume even less, $15 or $20.

    Over time PC becomes cheaper than a console, and PC does much more than a console. I’m not just talking about PC as a gaming platform. My original post: “And a PC does much, much more than just games, Netflix and Skype.” You’re paying the same price or more for a console when all it can do is games and basic entertainment, and even those it does worse than a PC. A machine that costs the same(or even more) doing less things and what it can do it does worse? That is the very definition of a ripoff.

    #84 12 months ago
  85. Phoenixblight

    @88

    “Why would you ignore the costs of games you bought on Steam? ”

    Because it would add to the cost of the PC which proves your point false even more so? I was being generous.

    #85 12 months ago
  86. pcbros

    @87 – “You can’t play COD, BF, Madden, Halo, GTA on a smartphone.”

    I can also list a lot of software that will not run on a tablet or chromebook.

    Again you are comparing hardcore gamers to casual PC users. The average joe does not play those games you listed. Besides a few of my friends, I can’t think of anyone I know that plays those games.

    Compare casual gamers with casual PC users and hardcore gamers with hardcore PC users.

    #86 12 months ago
  87. Phoenixblight

    “Again you are comparing hardcore gamers to casual PC users. The average joe does not play those games you listed. Besides a few of my friends, I can’t think of anyone I know that plays those games.”

    Anecdotal =/= Evidence. Those games have millions of units sold within the first week just on the console alone.

    “Again you are comparing hardcore gamers to casual PC users. ”

    No I haven’t. I am talking average joe gamer, the lowest common denominator that buys games. The core as it were.

    #87 12 months ago
  88. pcbros

    @91 – “Those games have millions of units sold within the first week just on the console alone.”

    And you think only a handful of people use Photoshop worldwide?

    “I am talking average joe gamer, the lowest common denominator that buys games. The core as it were.”

    If you compare the number of people who game on the smartphone versus a console like the PS3, I think you will see that console gamers are not the average joe.

    What was the biggest complaint against the Wii and Wii U? That it ignored hardcore gamers, not the average joe gamer. And what was missing? Big AAA 3rd-party games like you listed above.

    #88 12 months ago
  89. beepboop

    @89 Uh what? You still haven’t refuted my original analysis. $400 PS4, $400 for 8 years of PS+, 30 $45 new PC games vs 30 $60 new console games or 30 $15 PC games on sale vs 30 $30 console games on sale = $450 difference. That’s $1250 for a PS4 and you can get a gaming PC for $900-1000 and update the graphics card later with the money leftover. If you buy more games the difference only grows.

    A PC for the same price or cheaper, while offering much better graphics, support for mods, more precise controls and more control options, more exclusives including entire exclusive genres, cheaper games, more game sales, free multiplayer, backwards compatibility, customization, ability to upgrade, etc.

    Consoles are just a ripoff.

    #89 12 months ago
  90. Phoenixblight

    @93

    I am done arguing with you. You are comparing a PS4 over a period of 8 years to a PC you buy right now to get the performance it offers for at least 800$ see the problem? Ps4 or any console has a lower entry cost where PC you have to pay quite a bit more for the same performance that the console will offer right upfront. Deal with it.

    #90 12 months ago
  91. CyberMarco

    @93 It’s called convenience. e.g. with the PS4 you’ll pay 400$ and 400$ of PS+ for 8 years as you said (but you can clearly buy for cheaper, last year when I subbed for the 1st time I payed 37.5$). For games there are other factors, you can always buy them for cheap and someone could say that you don’t “own” your Steam games compared to physical copies.

    On the other hand with PC you have to fork out 800-900$ right up front, that’s a bit too steep for an investment.

    Also, are you sure that your computer will be up to the task 8 years later…?

    #91 12 months ago
  92. pcbros

    Everyone has their situation or preference. It’s like saying tablets are better than laptops. Depends what you need it for.

    But what I don’t get is why people would trash one over the other. How the fact that Valve announced the SteamOS can offend anyone is beyond me. If you don’t care for it, fine. But let those who do appreciate what they are trying to do, enjoy the announcement.

    I do a lot of work besides gaming on my PC. So I defintely prefer a open platform that let’s me install any operating system, change/upgrade hardware as I need and can meet all my needs vs a closed platform like consoles with their limitations.

    Not to say I don’t buy consoles (I’ve owned them all) but I prefer at this stage in my life, PC gaming.

    I just hope Valve can sweeten the deal with some more cool announcements.

    #92 12 months ago
  93. beepboop

    @94 Way to finally catch up. Yes, I am comparing it over a period of 8 years. Because that’s how long a console cycle is. You’ll have your PS4 for 8 years, so I’m calculating lifetime costs. I thought that was obvious.

    Also, I never said that PS4 didn’t have a lower entry cost, because it obviously does. I even said above that on day one console is much cheaper. But over the entire cycle PC becomes cheaper, and when you consider that PC offers much more power, features, and quality, then it’s obvious that console is a ripoff.

    @95 I factored in the cost of a gpu upgrade in my original post. That’s all you really need to keep playing games on high settings (not ultra, but high is still better than anything consoles can achieve, especially after it’s been a few years. And you can get games for cheap on any platform, it’s true, and sometimes console games will be cheaper than PC games, but on average PC games are cheaper and you’ll save more buying them.

    #93 12 months ago
  94. absolutezero

    So what happens when the next announcement hits and its none of the above?

    #94 12 months ago
  95. DSB

    @95 I’m not gonna get into a religious discussion, but one drawback to consoles is also that they hold games back.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law

    The console cycle has its own pros and cons. The pro is that developers have a stable platform to develop for. Things are more predictable and less likely to fail, but that’s ultimately because they’re limited in what they can really do.

    You’re missing out on a heap of progress, and somehow, even though people have been paying Microsoft and Sony for online services, they’re still miles behind just about anyone in the digital space.

    Of course, that sloppiness also meant that the Xbone got hit with some poetic justice for suddenly deciding to join everybody else in the present.

    I don’t know about your console, but my console is barely up to the task of GTA V right now.

    @98 Then someone must pay. With blood.

    #95 12 months ago
  96. Phoenixblight

    @99

    I have GTA on the PS3 and the digital version and its been running smoothly. I have yet to see all the issues about getting the digital version.

    #96 12 months ago
  97. DSB

    @100 I’m on a 360 slim, but as soon as I start moving in GTA V, everything gets jagged and the framerate drops pretty significantly.

    The worst is the submarine and street races though. Dunno why.

    It’s pretty clear that Rockstar are struggling to squeeze the last drops out of that hardware though.

    #97 12 months ago
  98. Phoenixblight

    WOw and the slim is pretty recent hardware. Yes I am quite impressed with what ROckstar was able to achieve with GTA V and this gen console.

    #98 12 months ago
  99. DSB

    Yeah, I mean it’s not bad for 8-9 year old hardware, but it’s clearly on its last legs. It’s never unplayable, but it just peeves me when the frames go down. You’re losing that tiny bit of responsiveness and control.

    #99 12 months ago
  100. Cobra951

    The slim won’t run any better than a properly functioning fat. It will just run cooler, and use less power. The chips were shrunk and integrated enough that they could have been run at significantly higher clock speeds, but that would have ruined the compatibility with existing software. Console specs need to be frozen in place. It’s in their very nature.

    #100 12 months ago
  101. Phoenixblight

    @103

    Yeah that is what annoyed me about Saints Row THe third and 4. THe game constantly was dropping especially when I was running superspeed or when I went crazy with the super powers but I think that is just bad optimization.

    #101 12 months ago
  102. CyberMarco

    @DSB To make it clear, I’m not bashing PC gaming nor console gaming. All I’m trying to say is that each platform has its advantages and disadvantages.

    I prefer PC gaming environment any day compared to my PS3, but I know that some games aren’t available on PC and only on PS3, console multiplatfroms and exclusives.

    I started late this generation of gaming, building my PC in late 2010 and getting my PS3 in late 2012, and when I saw the infrastructure of the PS3 I was a bit bummed, but on the other hand building my PC wasn’t an easy task either, so each to its own.

    Another thing with PC is that your hardware needs some proper maintenance too, for example my stock CPU cooler is failing on me and I have to get a decent cooler now. Not that consoles don’t have hardware failures but you can always wait to see how new consoles will turn out.

    #102 12 months ago
  103. DSB

    @106 Yeah, I’m not argueing with the facts, I just think there are a lot of them to consider :)

    True about the failing parts. That’s really why I always spend a little bit more than I’d maybe like every time I build a rig or upgrade.

    If you spend a little extra and get a quality part, there’s usually less chance of it failing on you.

    I’ve made the mistake of saving where I could too many times.

    #103 12 months ago
  104. pcbros

    @106 – “Another thing with PC is that your hardware needs some proper maintenance too, for example my stock CPU cooler is failing on me and I have to get a decent cooler now.”

    Atleast we can fix it :) When consoles fail, it’s usually very difficult to repair yourself.

    But I agree with all your points.

    I grew up gaming on my NES and Amiga 500 (Monkey Island with MIDI sound, eat your heart out IBM!). So I enjoy both. I just feel like I out grew my consoles. I bought a 360/PS3 and eventually sold both due to lack of use. Now, I usually work on my PC and then do a little gaming on Steam to unwind or relax for a bit.

    I like Windows and Mac OS… but I have a sweet spot for Linux (the underdog). The progress made with Linux in just the last few years is insane. Ubuntu has even released a mobile version of Linux for smartphones. You essentially have your linux desktop on your phone. I love the fact that my desktop, tablet and mobile can all be running the same desktop and are all connected.

    Thanks to opensource software, we have a free OS (Linux), free 3D Software (Blender), free Adobe Photoshop (Gimp), free Illustrator (Inkscape) and free Microsoft Office (LibreOffice). We are talking literally over $3000 saved because of the hard work the open source community is doing. Btw, I use all of those programs, so I feel personally grateful ;)

    If Valve can do *anything* to push the Linux revolution and boost PC gaming, they have 100% of my support any day.

    EDIT: Was just on Steam and I was noticing how a lot of the new indie games are supporting Linux as well. Kudos to indie developers!

    #104 12 months ago
  105. CyberMarco

    @pcbros, if you don’t mind add me on Steam.

    http://steamcommunity.com/id/CyberMarco/

    #105 12 months ago

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