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Killer is Dead’s ‘Gigolo’ missions bear the stamp of a sexist culture

Tuesday, 27th August 2013 14:01 GMT By Dave Cook

Killer is Dead releases this week. VG247′s Dave Cook has both finished and enjoyed it, yet the sour taste of those exploitative Gigolo missions linger on his tongue.

Debate surrounding the perception of females in games has been on the upswing recently. The Tomb Raider reboot was – from where I was sitting – hailed as something of a success in dousing the frail, ‘woman in danger’ archetype, while Call of Duty now has female combatants.

Love or hate her, Anita Sarkeesian is encouraging debate around the portrayal of female figures in the industry, while BioWare’s stance on open sexual discussion and in-game relationships is indicative of the Western market’s quest for inclusion regardless of sex, orientation or creed. These are just a few examples of how the issue is being brought to the fore and is being addressed by different parties. It’s a vital and positive step for our industry.

The same cannot be said of Japan and its deeply-entrenched – some might say ‘warped’ – approach to gender and sex.

I think Dragon’s Crown looks like a brilliant game, yet I understand and empathise with those calling out Vanillaware’s anatomically exaggerated depictions of its female brawlers and damsels. Should Dragon’s Crown be marked down for this?

Polygon docked it review points because of its depiction of the game’s damsels and I get the feeling that Vanillaware – a Japanese company – has just fallen into a trap made of its surrounding culture, where disproportioned females are routinely used to bait and arouse without a whiff of irony.

Over-sexualisation is historically rife in many Japanese games but is that right? Certainly not from a Western perspective where real, sober debate on the matter is held with increasing regularity, and it’s an issue that is generating growing concern on these shores as our industry tries to distance itself from sexist images and depictions.

I’m not from Japan, I’ve never lived there, I’ve never even been there, so I can’t say for sure, but my suspicion is that this is a culture that simply exists there. It just is and it doesn’t seem to be up for discussion by many developers.

To that end I don’t think Vanillaware meant any harm in Dragon’s Crown’s female component s it was just giving content that its home market probably expects, but I got the opposite feeling from Grasshopper Manufacture’s slasher Killer is Dead. I finished the game recently and while I enjoyed the core experience it’s Gigolo missions left me confused, irritated and actually quite embarrassed.

The game itself is fine. It follows contract killer Mondo Zappa as he accepts execution orders from his employer while trying to unravel his own past and track down the notorious Moon King before he spreads his influence across the planet. It’s dark, violent, and utterly bizarre, but I’d argue that it falls short of No More Heroes and its sequel, even if they share common threads.

Mondo has a robotic arm called ‘Muscleback’. He uses it as a gun initially, but he can earn new upgrades and attack types by completing Gigolo missions. These task the player with dating one of two women – Natalia and Koharu – and building up Mondo’s ‘Guts’ meter, which – when filled – gives him the courage to make a move and secure a night of sex with his target.


Here is Natalia’s Gigolo mission, to give you an idea of how it plays out.

To earn Guts during these first-person encounters, players must look at their date’s breasts, legs, arms and face whenever they’re not looking. Get caught peeking and the date’s mood meter depletes. Once empty Mondo gets a slap and the date ends, but succeed and you get treated to an array of sexual moans and bonus Guts for your stealth perversion.

Once the Guts bar is full, Mondo can give his date a gift such as roses, a teddy bear, perfume, a necklace and so forth. This triggers a look of shock and a message of adoration from the woman, as if they’re mere prizes to be seduced and reeled in by material things. They giggle, they flirt and tell you how strange they feel around you. It’s embarrassing.

Your prize for a winning over a date fully is a cut-scene that shows the woman undressing, rolling around a bed in her underwear and ultimately, engaging in sex with Mondo. You are then given a new Muscleback attack for your trouble, and completing the Gigolo mission multiple times reveals more of the cut-scene and more nudity. You can also unlock a pair of x-ray glasses that shows each girl sitting in their underwear.

It makes no sense. At all.

Why would going on dates with women result in them giving Mondo an upgrade for his cybernetic arm? They wouldn’t. There is absolutely no reason for these missions to exist other than to titillate, inflame and underline just how out-of-step some developers can be when the issue of gender is at hand. It’s both counter-productive and counter-progressive at the same time.

I’m a big fan of Grasshopper Manufacture’s output – and I’m not just saying this to be apologetic – but these missions really put me at unease and yes, they did soil the experience somewhat. I could go on about how the game plays from a core perspective but you can read all the other reviews out there today for that stance.

I really enjoyed everything else on the side. The combat is fun, even if it’s as shallow as a paddling pool and the plot is deliciously insane, but the game just won’t let you focus on these elements and ignore the seedy nature of its Gigolo missions. That’s because as the dates call Mondo up mid-mission to express their lust and make clear that they cannot bear to be away from him. It’s horrible.

The real kickers are the achievement descriptions you get for completing these missions. For example, fully seducing Natalia nets you the Passionate Girl achievement, which bears the description, “Made Natalia your prisoner in body and soul.” Koharu has her own version that says the same. “Prisoner?” I read that line and just thought “What the fuck am I doing this for?” I am really struggling to rationalise or make sense of why these side-attractions exist and what Suda51 is trying to do here.

Well, early this year he made it abundantly clear what he was not trying to do with Killer is Dead’s Gigolo missions in an interview with GI.biz.

During the chat he said, “I think in a way when you get criticism, that means people are paying attention to your work. Any kind of artistic value, anything you create, there’s always some kind of criticism behind it. Which means we’re making an impression and an impact. So I think we’ll stay with what we’re thinking and just keep going with that way of thinking

“…And when I say that, sexuality is a touchy subject. We don’t want to make people offended, but we’re trying to create something that makes people laugh a bit because we’re [dealing with] that topic.”

In an interview with Eurogamer, he did admit that Japanese culture and the issue of sexuality are drastically different compared to the Western perspective. During the piece he said, “I don’t really use [sex] as something full frontal, but sexuality is a good way to express a certain element in the game. Maybe sexuality in games shouldn’t be as big a taboo, but at the same time I live in a country where sexuality is pretty crazy.

“I think Western publishers do similar things, like with [Grand Theft Auto], going out to a strip club and other things,” he said. “But I do understand that if a Western developer was to create something like [Gigolo mode] it could backfire.”


Jesus christ…

I’m struggling to understand what “certain element” Killer is Dead’s depiction of sex is trying to express. It expresses nothing and has no tangible message or reason to exist. Suda51′s rationale is a cop out, pure and simple.

So we’ll just poke fun at the issue and leave it as it is Suda? That’s the best course of action is it? It’s all too easy for some people to throw up their hands and ignore the elephant in the room, and it almost seems like he’s saying that the gender equality issue won’t be changing so he’s just backing off and parodying what is for many of us, a serious issue that needs addressed..

Look West Suda, and you’ll see how dead wrong you are.

Disclosure: To assist in writing this piece, Deep Silver sent Dave a copy of Killer is Dead on Xbox 360.

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112 Comments

  1. Lengendaryboss

    Reaction to headline/article http://i.minus.com/ieBx1Ug8lOgjp.gif

    :)

    #1 1 year ago
  2. HyperDerp69

    Pretty sure sexism exists in plenty of western games too… Leisure Suit Larry is an immediate example that comes to mind. I agree this mode is awful, but it’s a problem that is happening around the world.

    #2 1 year ago
  3. tCruzin

    Lol, this is funny. While some people probably would feel a certain way about this, I don’t think it’s a huge deal.
    Like he said, the culture over there is way different. All you have to do is watch a few Anime’s to see that. It’s meant to be funny and from early interviews about the game this is exactly what I expected.
    Again, I’m sure this is not for everyone but knowing Japan and how they are this should not be surprising.

    #3 1 year ago
  4. psxman

    Is it better than Deep Silver’s Ride to Hell?
    Misogyny at it’s finest/worst.

    #4 1 year ago
  5. absolutezero

    Oh no. That title. It’s like we’ve learned nothing about how to approach this issue in a sensible way in order to lessen the amount of knee-jerk negative reactions.

    I know you want proper back and forth here Dave, your the guy that has to set that up, if the title in the first place generates a groan from me then its going to downright enrage others.

    I’m pretty sure Suda could have avoided the this whole stupid mess by simply calling it “Host Mode” and poking fun at the host/hostess bars of Tokyo. It sounds stupid, it sounds unnecessary but it does not sound like its going to affect the rest of the game. Or its sales or Suda in general.

    GHM fans are still going to buy this for the style and just how different the game are from everything else, I know thats why I’m a fan of the studio anyway.

    True fact, GHM helped Digital Reality make a small game called Sine Mora, it had a fantastic forward thinking story which should have been championed when it was released. No one said anything about it, mainly because it was a positive thing. A Shmup with a story? A shmup with characters? In Hungarian?

    This is not a problem with Japan either for some reason the completely un-realistic depiction of romance and sexuality in Mass Effect and Bioware games in general is held up as some sort of guiding light for the rest of the industry, forgetting that all you have to do to get someone into Shepard’s bed is pick the right options from the wheel a couple of times and be rewarded with cheap titillation, and thats all it is make no mistake.

    Achievement Unlocked! Have sex in space!

    urgh.

    Whats more in a World where this is actually a blip and not the normal way of doing things should that mean that it should be removed altogethor? Should a small niche title from Japan be censored for those that would more than likely never ever pick it up in the first place? Just because they might get offended if they do?

    Ya know kinda like what good old Mary Whitehouse did with the entire horror genre in the 80′s. Hey we know whats good for you. Someone just said Fuck on Bill Grundy.

    #5 1 year ago
  6. DSB

    @5 http://tap-repeatedly.com/2013/08/review-dragons-crown/

    THIS. This this this this this this.

    … THIIIIS.

    Seriously, that. End of fucking story.

    (Slightly embarrassing that she calls Sid Meier the designer of Alpha Centauri, but the rest is so unbearably sensible)

    Back on topic:

    I haven’t played Killer is Dead, but I have played No More Heroes, and No More Heroes was pretty sexual as well.

    But it wasn’t sexual in a way that made me feel like someone was trying to use an attractive character to give me a boner, it was sexual in a way that seemed to really want to ridicule me, as a guy, for indulging in sexual imagery that was so incredibly base and stupid.

    It was sexual in the same way as a 1970′s porno would be if it was written by a 16 year old. Filthy and goofy as all hell. It was as much about poking fun at the average perv as it was about displaying a bit of ass.

    I’d be very surprised if this wasn’t more of the same. If you don’t have a sense of humor about sex, then I can see how it might seem offensive, but in No More Heroes I felt like it was meant as a good laugh to be had by all.

    #6 1 year ago
  7. cw5th

    If even 1/3 of all blockbuster games where that way, which they aren’t, it wouldn’t be a problem. If there’s demand someone will produce it.

    I for one am glad that there’re still some developers making the games they want to make. What a whitewashed hell we would live in if everybody would throw a fit everytime a game dares to be not political correct.

    Please leave those games alone. They’re a dying kind of game in a sea of planned and focus group tested political correctness.

    #7 1 year ago
  8. Oynox Slider

    I am waiting for one more great column by Stephany!

    #8 1 year ago
  9. marijnlems

    Hi Dave, in fact, the Polygon review of Dragon’s Crown didn’t have that much of a problem with the female fighters, but with the actual damsels in distress in the game, who literally only exist to titillate.

    #9 1 year ago
  10. Ireland Michael

    @6 There is a big difference between slut-shaming and design simply being excessive. Dragon’s Crown took the excess and dialled it up to 11… thousand. It’s the sole reason I don’t want to play the game.

    Sexiness isn’t the problem. Anyone getting sensitive about sexiness is missing the point. The problem is gratuity, when the character exists for no other reason than their physical assets. This whole “dating” stuff has put me off wanting to buy the game completely.

    Suda pretty much just admitted the reason the “weird sexuality” is in the game is because weird sexuality is what Japanese gamers want, and its this creepish, fan-servicey demeaning of women that has put me off the vast majority of Japanese video games in the past generation.

    People can enjoy what they want… but no thanks. It’s not what I want in my games.

    #10 1 year ago
  11. absolutezero

    The Saboteur had a DLC to see boobs.

    Its now free.

    Just sayin’

    #11 1 year ago
  12. DSB

    @10 I call shenanigans though.

    Fair enough that it puts you off the game, but it might be perfectly enjoyable to someone else.

    The problem I have is with trying to establish this “primordial morality”, like that actually exists. Like there’s somehow an invisible limit that can be crossed.

    I don’t think very many people truly feel that way, and I’m pretty sure even the Pope is bullshitting everyone when he claims he does.

    We each decide for ourselves. Exploitation isn’t bad by default, it can be utterly brilliant. I wouldn’t say that Suda does a brilliant job of it exactly, but it certainly made me chuckle in the past.

    @11 Way ahead of you. No wonder those guys never managed to finish the game, amirite?

    #12 1 year ago
  13. cw5th

    @10:

    If the developer wants to show women/men/etc. that way isn’t it his/her/their own business why they do so?

    And to call it weird sexuallity… wow don’t ever go too deep into the internet. If you find Dragon’s Crown or other japanese depiction of sexuality weird you surely couldn’t handle the reality of our “weird” little world.

    I find it sad that sex is so vilified and on the other hand the whole goreporn shit the western devs shower us in is fine and dandy.

    #13 1 year ago
  14. Ireland Michael

    @12, 13 “Fair enough that it puts you off the game, but it might be perfectly enjoyable to someone else.”

    “the developer wants to show women/men/etc. that way isn’t it his/her/their own business why they do so?”

    Isn’t that exactly what I said? People can enjoy whatever they want. I’m simply talking from *my* personal preferences. I will vote with my wallet.

    “And to call it weird sexuallity… wow don’t ever go too deep into the internet. If you find Dragon’s Crown or other japanese depiction of sexuality weird you surely couldn’t handle the reality of our “weird” little world.”

    What people do in their private time is their own business. I’m not suggesting censoring anything. I was simply commenting on what Suda himself said, “Maybe sexuality in games shouldn’t be as big a taboo, but at the same time I live in a country where sexuality is pretty crazy.”, hence why it was in quotations.

    Japanese mainstream sexual imagery is infamous for portraying women / girls (ugh) in situations of voyuerism, embarrassment, naivety. Speaking personally, I don’t find the idea of being in a situation where I *have* to glare at a woman without her noticing an enjoyable gameplay experience. It just makes me feel like a creeper.

    #14 1 year ago
  15. cw5th

    @ 14: “Speaking personally, I don’t find the idea of being in a situation where I *have* to glare at a woman without her noticing an enjoyable gameplay experience. It just makes me feel like a creeper.”

    So you’ve never peeked at a lady when she wasn’t looking? Not even in your first dating attempts?

    SUDA said in those interviews that the whole gigollo mode was an over the top parody of a dating scene where a man is only looking for loose women who are “game” to bed him.

    Nobody is looking at Monty Python and the Holy Grail to find a spot on representation of the happy life of King Arthur and nobody should look at games like Dragon’S Crown or Killer is dead for apt representation of male/female clothing, dating and/or behavier.

    #15 1 year ago
  16. Ireland Michael

    @15 “So you’ve never peeked at a lady when she wasn’t looking? Not even in your first dating attempts?”

    No. Unless I know a woman is comfortable first, I’m not going to do something like that.

    *cue accusations of being frigid, a prude, etc.*

    “SUDA said in those interviews that the whole gigollo mode was an over the top parody of a dating scene where a man is only looking for loose women who are “game” to bed him.”

    Good for him. That doesn’t make it feel any less awkward for me.

    #16 1 year ago
  17. tCruzin

    This article is old, why does it say the 27th now? Get over it lol

    #17 12 months ago
  18. Dave Cook

    @17 because it went up before it was supposed to. The reviews have just dropped, so we’ve republished it.

    #18 12 months ago
  19. 2-D

    Stop being a baby, Dave Cook.

    #19 12 months ago
  20. monkeygourmet

    “…bear the stamp of a sexist culture…”

    Our culture is so much less sexist / exploitative…

    Just look at lovely little Miley Cyruss expressing herself at the VMA’s…:

    http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/miley-cyrus-vma-gif-5.gif

    I really hope Dave meant the culture of videogames, not generalising countries or anything. Maybe the title should be re-thought as it’s a little missleading at first.

    These games exist in a ‘grindhouse’ kind of space, nothing more.

    #20 12 months ago
  21. G1GAHURTZ

    No. Unless I know a woman is comfortable first, I’m not going to do something like that.

    Yeah, right…

    #21 12 months ago
  22. monkeygourmet

    “So you’ve never peeked at a lady when she wasn’t looking? Not even in your first dating attempts?”

    No. Unless I know a woman is comfortable first, I’m not going to do something like that.

    …And that Michael, is why you should only date blind girls… You can look as much as you want and they will never know!

    #22 12 months ago
  23. jon_

    That title and most of the reviews that i have read about Killer is Dead only means something: Get the popcorn!

    #23 12 months ago
  24. Djoenz

    @22
    HAhahaha have to admit Its funny…

    #24 12 months ago
  25. bradk825

    I have a wife and a daughter whom I adore, so Killer is Dead just went on my “no fucking way” list. I appreciate the candid article Dave.

    I am not against sexuality in video games, but it has to be done in a way that is responsible. Satire is fine, but it doesn’t seem like that’s what Killer is Dead offers. I always hold that anything acceptable in a movie or a novel is acceptable in a game, but I would say the above described material would also get poor reviews in a movie or a novel, unless the person doing it was the antagonist.

    #25 12 months ago
  26. Dave Cook

    @25 thanks mate, my faith in humanity just went up a point after dipping several since this piece went live.

    Read the reviews out there today and you’ll see that I’m not along in this. It has annoyed a lot of people.

    #26 12 months ago
  27. monkeygourmet

    @25

    Do you also ‘vet’ music / TV / Movies that your daughter may watch / listen too?

    Not trying to start anything, but just wondered if your daughter wanted to watch Miley Cyrus perform:

    http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/miley-cyrus-vma-gif-5.gif

    Do you vet each medium seperatly? How will that work when she grows up and her friends are into that kind of stuff? Do you think she will rebel?

    Just curious, it’s a tough call being a parent thats for sure…

    #27 12 months ago
  28. Metroid455

    meh, living here in Japan for almost 11 years now Iv’e gotten used to it.this really isn’t surprising to me at all, I think iv’e assimilated into the culture pretty well but sometimes I keep forgetting that most westerner’s will no doubt find Japanese sexuality to be quite exotic lol!! (^-^)

    #28 12 months ago
  29. Logion

    I found the best way to enjoy Suda 51:s games are not to take them seriously at all. I suppose the problem is when they make fun of women, often in a sexual manner, the line between funny and offensive gets a bit blurry.

    #29 12 months ago
  30. monkeygourmet

    @28

    And thats the thing.

    I think to single out games, you’d have to rip right through Japanese culture, and to what ends?

    The world would be a much more boring place without games like this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boong-Ga_Boong-Ga

    #30 12 months ago
  31. ududy

    Haven’t read in-depth yet, but just from the title – it’s amazing how Feminism and PC culture have reincarnated a sort of Puritanism in our era: Sex and passion – and people’s bodies in that context – as things to be discussed in awe and trembling respect of their sacred “spirituality”, or not at all.

    #31 12 months ago
  32. yeoung

    Men are sexualized in games too. Anything from perfect stubble/hair, to biceps the size of fridges, rippling pecs and astronomical abs.

    This isn’t so much a gender issue as it is a “real world socio-morality fundaments do not apply to fictional worlds” issue. Even if this simple fact is ignored, the Disney Channel, MTV, daytime shopping channels, etc. are all much biggers “offenders” and as an addendum; they’re reality-based.

    Same as with the kid-shooting-grandma issue. Somehow, it is acceptable to focus on tangentially related fictional expressive media, completely ignoring gun safety protocols and parental supervision clauses. It is completely asinine.

    #32 12 months ago
  33. salarta

    Reading the article, the Gigolo missions sound disappointing. They also sound like the Japanese side of a backstep on treatment of female characters. Even when it came to relationship sort of games, past games, mostly JRPGs, were more about going on dates and getting to know the characters with no sex involved.

    From how I see things, it looks like the Japanese side of the industry has taken the route of hypersexualization of their women, while the Western side tones down the sex but in its place makes the women into damsels and weak characters. I think Japanese devs are picking up on that, too, because we’ve seen Aya Brea and Samus Aran both hypersexualized and made into damsels at several points in their own games, as if the devs are trying to capture what they believe to be the most important elements of both Western and Japanese game design of female characters.

    I have Killer is Dead coming in today at home, but hearing about these gigolo missions makes me feel like maybe getting the game was a bad move. Still, I’m much more open to this sort of thing when the characters are brand new ones, not existing characters reimagined in horrible ways.

    I think Catherine actually did a decent job as far as video games today go for bringing sex into the conversation while also treating women in a more mature fashion. I wish we would get a sequel, and more games like it. It doesn’t seem like that’ll happen, though, since Japanese audiences have said they want sexual parodies of women, and Western audiences have said they want weak damsels as women.

    @20: Miley Cyrus is a special case. Most people reacted negatively and think she went too far; if a majority don’t like it, then it goes against the mainstream culture. The other issue to consider is that… frankly, a lot of what Miley is doing today has its roots in deeper personal issues she’s having. Her performance is less a reflection on our culture and more a reflection on the inner mental and emotional struggles she’s having as she tries to find her place in adulthood.

    #33 12 months ago
  34. Mus42

    @32, ah yes but its okay to objectify men, no one has a problem with that apparently.

    Not sure when it became wrong to find women physically attractive? If I see a beautiful women then I going to damn well look at her. If other people feel the need to ask permission first then good for them.

    I’ll stick to being a caveman, thanks.

    #34 12 months ago
  35. DSB

    @31 Yeah, spot on.

    Somehow using sex “to have fun” is not an acceptable “justification”. So apparently you’re under some form of indictment as soon as you go there :P

    #35 12 months ago
  36. ududy

    Dave Cook – “The same cannot be said of Japan and its deeply-entrenched – some might say ‘warped’ – approach to gender and sex.”

    This accusation after you brought up Mass Effect? I would argue that it’s much more “warped” to pressure a creative industry, out of a utopian vision of tolerance, towards ridiculously uniform game worlds where sex between any possible combination of gender and alien life is not only possible, but in fact so acceptable that it is not even remarked upon.

    #36 12 months ago
  37. bradk825

    @27 Good questions, all good questions. The short answer is my daughter is only 4 months old right now so I let her listen to anything, lol.

    To clarify, my reason to avoid Killer is Dead isn’t to keep my daughter’s eyes off it, but out of respect for women in general and my wife and daughter specifically. I have always been one to respect women, but that naturally increased exponentially when I got married, and again when my daughter was born. I am told this shift happens to a lot of men. Thankfully.

    Anyway, I think your questions are valuable though, and it’s a difficult thing for parents to lead their family in this day and age. Short version of my personal belief (which will no doubt change with experience): I think some material needs to be off-limits to kids, but I am still a little unsure where the line is. Some material isn’t even appropraite for adults for heaven’s sake. If something feeds sexism, racism, that’s not cool. It depends how the content is done. Like I mentioned before, if the antagonist of a story does something, it’s not so bad to include it, because he’s the bad guy. If the protagonist is doing it, but he’s “struggling” with trying to stop, that’s one thing. In Killer is Dead the protagonist is doing this stuff just to use these women for sex and get and arm upgrade (???). So not cool.

    Other material doesn’t have to be off-limits necessarily, but it needs to be tempered with a strong set a values, taught alongside the reasons for the values. Example: It’s not ok to hit people. Why? Because it hurts them and you wouldn’t want someone doing that to you.

    Before she can watch Miley Cyrus perform or read certain teen magazines, it’ll be important that she understands how valuable she is just as she is, understands that she is loved but also treasured (the difference being whether or not I spend time with her, that’s ESSENTIAL) and understands what standards are necessary for herself and for potential mates when she gets old. The standards presented in those magazines are unattainable without airbrushing, and she needs to know that they are not how she should measure herself.

    Anyway, if I can be permitted a little honesty, these are my EARLY opinions. A young inexperienced dad, unequipped to answer your question but doing his best. So take it with a grain of salt. But the biggest thing for my is I’ll be leaning on my own Dad, and others around me for a lot of help. The expression goes “it takes a community to raise a child” and I am blessed to have such a strong community to lean on. I wish everyone was as lucky as me, I really do.

    #37 12 months ago
  38. Mus42

    Dave, serious question, why would you play a game which you know has content which you might find questionable?

    To me that’s like going to a porn web site and then complaining that there are naked people having sex? You must have known full well what the Gigolo mode was all about yet you still “subjected” yourself to it and then wrote a huge piece decrying it?

    Sorry but that just doesn’t make sense to me at all, and to quote your own words – “What the fuck am I doing this for?” – and the answer seems to be so you can write a scathing opinion piece about it all….

    #38 12 months ago
  39. monkeygourmet

    @33

    “Miley Cyrus is a special case. Most people reacted negatively and think she went too far; if a majority don’t like it, then it goes against the mainstream culture. The other issue to consider is that… frankly, a lot of what Miley is doing today has its roots in deeper personal issues she’s having.”

    I agree with that. But I also see what kids are using as ‘role models’. A young kid won’t see Miley or some similar train wreck and think, “Yeah, she looks like she’s going through some emotional problems”, they think shit like that is cool as fuck.

    Thats why it sells, thats why people are whoring themselves out without thinking of the consequences…

    A large amount of people love shit like that, it is a complete reflection of our media appetites.

    Just look at every X Factor / Talent show / Footballers Wives / Glamour Model / Honey Boo Boo bullshit TV programme thats on at the moment.

    A large part of media is showing young kids: ‘If you whore yourself out, you can make bank’…

    What it doesn’t show you are the millions who fail, and end up having zero self esteem because they whored themselves out through their formative years.

    Even the ones who do well in that kind of industry generally become assholes because it’s not a lifestyle that is based on anything tangible.

    #39 12 months ago
  40. monkeygourmet

    @37

    Cheers, thanks for taking time to share your opinions! Good luck for the future! :)

    #40 12 months ago
  41. bradk825

    @38 On one hand I can kind of see why you would ask that, but consider this:

    Several years ago when Mass Effect first came out, a guy who didn’t play the game decided to write a review anyway. He wrote that it was a porn game disguised as a space combat game. He wrote that you customize both characters in the sex scene, then choose their position, and sit back and watch them have sex.

    The whole thing was so incredibly untrue it was ridiculous, but it turned out he actually thought he was writing the truth, somehow.

    So you can’t write about the game without playing it as a journalist, even if you think you’ll find it upsetting. Best to actually see that you have a reason to be upset.

    #41 12 months ago
  42. bradk825

    @40 Thanks Bro.

    #42 12 months ago
  43. Dave Cook

    @38 It’s my job.

    #43 12 months ago
  44. YoungZer0

    This again.

    Not a single one of you bats an eye when you can cut enemies in half or rip them to pieces in other games.

    Yet when it comes to sexuality, for some reason people need to be careful and developers need to be told what to do and how to do it. They need to be more ‘sensitive’. Suddenly every nerd becomes an expert on sex and where you cross the line.

    There are a shit-ton of articles like this. Somehow every sexual act in videogames has to be questioned. “What purpose does this serve?” “How is this related to the story?” “How does this impact the gameplay?” “What is the reason of this?” How about fun? Has none of you ever fucked for fun?

    I find it bizarre that people can openly admit that ripping a guy in half is ‘fun’ but doing something sexual with a woman/guy is perverse and has to be questioned.

    “If you enjoy this, there is something wrong with you. You’re a creep. Now excuse me while I try feed this guy his own heart.”

    When it comes to violence nobody asks those questions “Why is my finishing move so brutal? Am I not playing a police officer?” “Why do I even have a finishing move?” “Why am I using a purple dildo to beat this guy?”

    Don’t be a hypocrite. Let people have their fun.

    #44 12 months ago
  45. bradk825

    @44 You should read the article before going on a rant. This isn’t about being against sex in video games. Serious dude, read the article, then post your comment.

    #45 12 months ago
  46. Dave Cook

    @44 Missed the point of this piece entirely.

    @45 thanks mate.

    #46 12 months ago
  47. TheKeyPit

    I think missions like this should be skippable with a message similar to the ones in Call of Duty.

    #47 12 months ago
  48. Clupula

    I hate to take what you call the easy way out but…this is a Suda 51 game.

    You don’t like his presentation and humor, you shouldn’t play the game.

    #48 12 months ago
  49. ShiiRo

    bradk825, it isn’t about that? I’ve read it and it seems to be an article about criticizing Japan because they aren’t nearly as uptight about sex as many in the west seem to be. The article even ends with Dave telling Suda to “look west” to see that his concepts are wrong.

    #49 12 months ago
  50. ududy

    @45/46

    Don’t see how he missed the point. The article is saying there is a “proper” and “decent” way to “do” sex, and looking at women’s breasts and thighs when they’re not looking is not it.

    But while this fantasy must be shackled to the irons of a righteous – and somewhat sterile, to my taste – moral code, the fantasy of slicing other men in half is given free reign, only limited by the designer’s taste, purpose and imagination. It’s a striking difference.

    #50 12 months ago
  51. Clupula

    Yeah, to be quite honest, and I say this as someone who generally likes Dave, even if we don’t agree 100% of the time (now is certainly one of those times we disagree), the “look west” comment is really ethnocentric.

    #51 12 months ago
  52. YoungZer0

    @45:

    I complained that people do not question violence in videogames. Dave does not question the bizarre and brutal nature of the game, yet the sex part has to make sense for some reason. This is Suda 51 we’re talking about here. It’s as absurd and stupid as the rest of his games.

    #52 12 months ago
  53. DSB

    It’s Daves job to play games, for fuck’s sake :P Give the guy a break. He’s perfectly entitled not to like them, or aspects of them.

    Would you really like a games press where people only played what they liked? What kind of sad insecure cunt would that make you?

    Disagree with the opinion, I do, but don’t just blame the guy for doing what he does.

    #53 12 months ago
  54. xxJPRACERxx

    Wow, so much bullshit! If you don’t like the game don’t play it, no need to write 10 pages about it.

    If it’s you job to play it and write a review, fine, but not need to start that bs thing about women.

    True fact: Women like to be looked at! (well, pretty ones at least)

    #54 12 months ago
  55. Mus42

    #53 I object to the use of the word “cunt” its sexist! please change it to the word “cock”

    #55 12 months ago
  56. Kreion

    @54
    Women like to be looked at is not a valid argument under in any form -.- Because there’s a difference between looking and, well, looking.

    I don’t mind an article which focuses on the gaming industries tendancy to be quite childish and verge on sexism when dealing with female characters (not all the time, mind.) But I completely reject the notion that this is somehow a bigger problem in Japan than it is in the west. Western games are JUST as likely to conform to gender stereotypes and not take women seriously as a subject, look to your own culture before you start slamming others.

    And if you want to mention the depiction of women in Japanese materials – you better also remember that by far and away they have the most powerful female characters in quantity. I’m not saying there aren’t glaring problems with how Eastern cultures can deal with women, but don’t pretend that we don’t have our own flaws as a culture too. It smacks of arrogance.

    #56 12 months ago
  57. YoungZer0

    But why are japanese folks so much into rape fantasies? And why do japanese women sound like hamsters that are being tortured? Why do they look like they hold in a fart? And why is this supposed to turn on people? Why do they not shave down there?

    These are the tough questions Dave should be asking. 8)

    #57 12 months ago
  58. Dave Cook

    @56 It’s not arrogance. Suda 51′s rebuttal at the end of my piece is arrogant.

    The issue is not Japan, it’s this idea that ‘oh, sex is weird in Japan so let’s just keep rolling with it’ approach. It’s lazy and doesn’t translate well to the West.

    That’s one of the key issues here that seems to be going unnoticed.

    #58 12 months ago
  59. Clupula

    @58 – Dave, to be quite honest, who cares? It’s Suda doing his thing. You can’t pick and choose which aspects of his humor are acceptable and which ones are not. I’m sure there are some people who have objections to the amount of violence in the game. You don’t. How is that any different?

    You buy a Suda 51 game, you know what you’re getting. Sex, violence, absurdity. Sometimes at the same time.

    That’s why I buy them! I don’t want some neutered, watered-down, Westernized homogenized safe bullshit when I buy a Suda game.

    Part of me was hoping that this article was actually reverse psychology in an attempt to give a game that deserves it more attention and more sales.

    #59 12 months ago
  60. Ashmael

    This writer deserves to be buried on the same pit with Anita.

    #60 12 months ago
  61. Dave Cook

    @58 I do, as do most reviewers posting articles today. As I said in my piece I’m a fan of the man’s work, so doesn’t that suggest that even with that in mind I found it difficult to overlook the Gigolo content?

    I’m not saying any of this to stir the pot or to be a prick, or even to get hits – again, we’ll manage just fine without them as they don’t impact our adverts at all – but I genuinely, honestly felt put-off by this content. I really, really did.

    It’s pointless. It has absolutely no reason to exist and it’s just a paper-thin attempt at sexualising an experience that didn’t need it. Some of the replies to this article are utterly baffling.

    #61 12 months ago
  62. Ireland Michael

    @21 “Yeah right…”

    Yeah, right.

    I’m not going to criticise people for admiring women. It’s just not the way I raised. Call it conservative, old fashion, uptight, whatever. It’s just not how I function. *I* simply don’t feel comfortable physically admiring a woman I’m not attached to emotionally.

    It’s not a criticism against other people.

    @59 “You can’t pick and choose which aspects of his humor are acceptable and which ones are not.”

    Why not? You can like some things a creator puts in their work, and dislike others.

    I know Suda is only doing it for laughs, but he pretty much straight up said himself that it’s in the game purely because this somewhat creepy sex factor is what people want. I think its funny that a lot of people are trying to deny these somewhat creepy sexual attitudes exist in the Japanese psych when Suda, an actual Japanese person living in Japan, fully admits that it does.

    #62 12 months ago
  63. Dave Cook

    @60 Why? Because you disagree with my opinion?

    Yeah, because that’s mature and rational.

    #63 12 months ago
  64. ShiiRo

    @58 And the west’s dependence on hyper violence doesn’t translate well in Japan. The director of Tokyo Jungle attended the 2012 E3 and had this to say about it

    “To conclude the lecture, Kataoka expanded his philosophy to Japanese development as a whole. He recalled last year’s E3 and how the audience’s positive reaction to violence was difficult to relate to. “There’s a difference between what the Western and Japanese audience feel is fun,” he said. “I personally feel it’s not necessary for Japanese companies to think about marketing to the West when making games.”

    So does that mean that the west is doing something wrong? No. But it seems perfectly acceptable to dogpile on Japanese games and Japanese developers. We’re talking about an industry where the review editor at a major website (not this one) actually thinks “very Japanese” is an appropriate criticism for a game.

    #64 12 months ago
  65. Dave Cook

    @64 I’m not saying Japan as a nation is to blame, that’s absolutely not the message here under any circumstances. At all.

    The issue is Suda’s blase attitude to just rolling with it because that’s what his home culture expects. It doesn’t translate well and comes at a time when there a lot of people trying to get the industry away from this sort of needless over-sexualisation. It’s counter-productive and actually doesn’t need to exist in the game at all.

    ‘Fuck woman, get new gun’. That’s what the mechanic is at base level.

    Pointless.

    #65 12 months ago
  66. Clupula

    @61 – It’s pointless. It has absolutely no reason to exist

    But as a fan of his games, you should know that half of the stuff in them has no reason to exist. Was there a reason for the side-scrolling papercut sections of Shadows of the Damned? Was there a reason for the wanking motion to power up your beam katana in No More Heroes? Or for that matter the DLC for the PS3 version that let you view one of the characters 99% nude?

    It’s part of his style.

    And yes, it’s supposed to be creepy. That’s what makes it funny. That’s why so many girls I know love his stuff, because they get that it’s humorous.

    I’ve said many times, and I know it’s not a Suda game, but still, that if you’re actually turned on by Bayonetta, you’re missing the point. Suda games are very much the same.

    #66 12 months ago
  67. YoungZer0

    @65: “‘Fuck woman, get new gun’. That’s what the mechanic is at base level.

    Pointless.”

    So ‘Kill guy, get new gun’ is a better mechanic?

    #67 12 months ago
  68. Ireland Michael

    @64 This site has done plenty of criticisms on western video game design in the past, such as senseless violence and female representation in western games. They are not “dogpiling on Japanese games and Japanese developers” just because one article happens to focus on a Japanese games.

    Dave Cook has written articles on how great Japanese games in are his time here. His article on the amazing quality of recent Japanese RPGs is one of my favourite article on this site. So he can’t really be accused of being close minded in regards to Japanese games. Any accusation of bias is straight up false.

    #68 12 months ago
  69. Dave Cook

    @68 Yes contextually, because you’re killing the guy to get his gun in what is basically a mindless action movie. Why would any of these women just have a super-powered gun arm lying around to give to the net person they shag? It has no context at all.

    @69 “Dave Cook has in fact written numerous articles on the amazing quality of Japanese games in his time here. His article on the amazing quality of some Japanese RPGs is one of my favourite article on this site. So he can’t really be accused of being close minded in regards to Japanese games.”

    100% true, thanks!

    #69 12 months ago
  70. Ireland Michael

    Here we go. Here’s your Japan hating Dave Cook:

    - http://www.vg247.com/2012/12/06/level-5-understanding-japans-best-kept-secret/

    - http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/30/lost-odysseys-are-jrpgs-about-to-explode/

    #70 12 months ago
  71. monkeygourmet

    @69

    Then maybe you can see how the title could be misleading?

    Maybe something along the lines of:

    ‘Has Suda lost his (bad) touch?’

    Would have been more appropriate. It would have avoided all the Japanese culture stuff and just concentrated on if Sudas games are getting worse / better.

    #71 12 months ago
  72. ShiiRo

    But why doesn’t it need to exist? Is the mechanic simply offensive because it involves having sex with a woman to get the upgrade? But we readily accept murdering people to get items and weapons. One of the most popular aspects of gaming today is having loot in your game. In most cases this involves killing individuals in order to get that loot. Why is having sex with a woman viewed as being more disgusting than murdering an individual? Why is oversexualization viewed as being worse than mass violence? The two most praised games of the year (The Last of Us and Bioshock Infinite) are some of the most violent games released. GTAV will obviously join that list as well. Those three will almost certain be duking it out at the end of this year for GotY.

    I think that’s something that the industry doesn’t want to talk about. Why do we accept violence but are so afraid of sex? Even if it’s just blatantly casual sex like in KiD? We don’t bat an eye when we hop into a multiplayer mode of CoD to mow down other players. But a virtual avatar seducing women in questionable ways is seen as being far more offensive than that.

    #72 12 months ago
  73. Sini

    i love japan. too lazy to learn language though. i’ll take this over the awkwardness of bioware romances anyday

    #73 12 months ago
  74. DSB

    Even in the quotes you included in the article, he quite clearly states that he’s just having a laugh. I don’t see why that isn’t a perfectly good reason to go for it.

    Maybe that’s a cop out to you, but videogames are full of cheap thrills that are included for no good reason, and there are plenty of us who don’t mind all that much. As long as it’s ridiculous storylines with North Korean invasions and lots of explosions, all is well and good, but god forbid anyone gets laid on a less than stellar foundation?

    As with any kind of entertainment, if you take it too seriously, it’ll quickly seem crass and offensive. It would be hard to enjoy a Louis C.K. show if you didn’t accept that he’s really just having a laugh.

    #74 12 months ago
  75. monkeygourmet

    @71

    By definition of enjoying JRPGs you have to also enjoy lolli characters and up skirts, they are a huge staple of that genre.

    #75 12 months ago
  76. YoungZer0

    @70: “Why would any of these women just have a super-powered gun arm lying around to give to the net person they shag? It has no context at all.”

    I’d totally stand behind you if it wasn’t a Suda51 game. So it doesn’t really have to make sense.

    Also, should there be no reward for it? I mean gameplay-wise all you do is shooting, so why shouldn’t it be gun-related?

    #76 12 months ago
  77. Ireland Michael

    @72 But Japan *does* have an uncomfortable sexual culture. This isn’t an opinion. It’s a fact. There are a lot of things I admire about Japan, but I’m not going to pretend its problems don’t exist.

    @77 Please tell me you’re joking. If you’re being sarcastic, its not translating. =P

    #77 12 months ago
  78. Dark

    wow Gigolo missions are quite embarrassing and people complain about it

    http://cdn.destructoid.com//ul/260691-head.jpg

    but this?
    Watch how little they’re going to care about this in GTA V.

    #78 12 months ago
  79. cw5th

    @80:

    But that’s just a joke. The player can’t do these poses in the game.

    Don’t you see, only if the playe is actively participating in the action it isn’t pc anymore.

    The double standard is strong with most people.

    #79 12 months ago
  80. Ireland Michael

    @80 Its very simple context.

    One involves willing participants, the other does not.

    It paints those woman in a submission category, and that is what bothers me personally about it. It takes away their *choice* (the basis of all sexism), and I find that incredibly uncomfortable.

    #80 12 months ago
  81. wildBoar

    I agree, Otaku culture is unmodern and incorrect, and we should all tell them what fucking basement lurkers they are, rather than ignoring niche products that isn’t aimed at us anyway.

    #81 12 months ago
  82. cw5th

    @82:

    What? Wow…

    I do find it migthy unbeleavable that the women in the GTAV ad are more willing for the intended sexual positions than the women in the bar within Killer is dead are for the staring.

    Just like in the new Adam Sandler Movie(there’s a Joga scene where a dude tells the women to bend over and jump in place for his sexual fantasies) and there you’ve the accepted form of sexism.

    Excuses to make one of two comparable scenes just a harmless joke/parody and the other is something worth fighting against…

    #82 12 months ago
  83. G-Sama

    you know … Suda is japanese , when you’re a japanese developer you have to aim first at your base market (japanese) .. what made suda games popular IS that they’re japanese-y ,why should he change that ?
    and … guess what , japanese people LOVE those crazy oversexualized characters and poke fun out of it

    if you’re expecting a western-style game from suda’s team .. you’re missing the whole point

    Edit : also , japanese sexuality in media is heavely censored .. it’s basicly “teasing” , just like they tease sex in their games while western games go all out (see heavy rain )
    not to mention the censored porn … A CENSORED PORN !! :D

    #83 12 months ago
  84. Metroid455

    But see here’s the thing, to be blunt at the end of the day we’re not afraid of sex or sexual content but clearly alot of western culture is very squeamish when it comes to anything sexual yet has no problem with strong violence? don’t get me wrong it’s fine not to like it but I don’t see why Suda-San should look west just because it’s afraid of anything sex-related.

    We’re not asking Western games to be more culturally palatable so why should we be expected to do this? If you don’t like our games that’s fine (^-^) play something else then.

    #84 12 months ago
  85. Ireland Michael

    @84 Without context, there is nothing to go on.

    You are outright told to stare at these women in the game when they’re not looking.

    Nothing in those images implies a lack of consent.

    @86 The problem isn’t with the sex. The problem is with the undertones.

    #85 12 months ago
  86. Metroid455

    @73 You hit the nail right on the head buddy (^-^)

    #86 12 months ago
  87. bradk825

    I’m a little sad this has to be a fight. Sad because a group of Western men should be able to agree, whatever their stance on sex in general, that this game’s portayal of women who magically open their legs because the guy is horny and has a gift, is at the very least something to be frowned upon.

    In some countries women are still not able to give testimony in court even if they are the victim of a crime. Would it be racist and insensitive to the culture to tell those men they are behind the times? I think there is a huge difference between someone who likes to have sex just for fun, and someone who views women as their personal fuck-toy.

    #87 12 months ago
  88. bradk825

    By the way the “but it’s ok to kill someone for an upgrade” argument is distraction at best. It fails to address the issue. It’s just trying to excuse the issue, not justify it.

    #88 12 months ago
  89. wildBoar

    Did you guys know that in Denmark, it isn’t illegal to have sex with your pets so long as you can prove you’re not causing them any discomfort or harm?

    @89 well maybe it’s a good idea to be respectful towards other cultures, and allow them to sort their own shit out, rather than act as if western culture is somehow morally superior or “better”. Last time I checked rape was illegal in Japan.

    #89 12 months ago
  90. cw5th

    @89:

    “In some countries women are still not able to give testimony in court even if they are the victim of a crime.”

    And in some countries(Japan, etc.) a woman can leave her husband wihtout notice and take their children with her. And if the male tries to get them back, because the women hasn’t the right to do as she pleases nobody will help him. The courts and the police will tell him that it’s a family thing and tradition that the children will stay with the mother. The male is then often told to not make a scene.

    So… what has anything of that to do with the article? Nothing you say?

    #90 12 months ago
  91. bradk825

    @92 same question: Is it racist to say that’s wrong? The example itself isn’t the question, I’m asking is it ok to question something as wrong when you’re not a part of the culture? In certain circumstances I say yes. Cultural differences are one thing, injustice, discrimination, sexism, racism, inequality, these are not excusable on the basis of cultural differences.

    #91 12 months ago
  92. Jesus Christ

    In some countries, when a women’s vegina is too small for the cock of her husband, they will cut the vegina a little open so the cock can get inside.

    #92 12 months ago
  93. YoungZer0

    Vegina? :P

    Also do you have a source on that? Sounds like something someone would pull out of his anus.

    #93 12 months ago
  94. Jesus Christ

    I read it in a book some time ago.

    But you should be able to find the details via Bing.

    #94 12 months ago
  95. YoungZer0

    Right.

    #95 12 months ago
  96. G-Sama

    @95
    it reminds me of this … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pSmhZFbCy0
    now i can’t stop laughing thanx alot vegina :D

    #96 12 months ago
  97. Ashmael

    @63 Because you are an idiot, and obiously you are complaining because now is “cool” to be a feminist gamer.
    i have been playing videogames for more like 25 years since golden axe.
    Games have genres and art styles and with it you pretty much have a range of people who gonna enjoy a particular genre.
    Is just like movies, you won`t gonna go to watch a Horror movie and complain that it must be changed because it has too much blood.
    Anita is pretending to change the whole industry and that is a pretty dumb idea, if she succeds the only ones that gonna lose are the games themselves and the gamers, because the result is gonna be more homogenic games.
    You are just pissing out of the bucket. If you don`t like it don`t play it.

    #97 12 months ago
  98. salarta

    @39: You’re right, kids today will see that and think it’s cool. They will think that because like when we were kids, they will think the adults that criticize it are just “too old” to “appreciate” such things. But those kids will also grow up, and their opinions of the things they used to like and support will change when they become adults themselves.

    I don’t even need to be hypothetical about that, because I remember my own past thoughts and behavior. When I was younger, I would’ve eagerly lapped up most of the games I rail against today. Some of the things I most vehemently hate today, especially seeing certain important female characters treated like sex objects or weak and frightened damsels at the core of who they are, I would have blindly and happily supported 10-15 years ago. Back then, women in video games were strong and admirable, so the idea of them being pathetic and getting torn down came across as “variety.” “We have all these admirable women, let’s see some that suck!” Today, it’s the opposite; I have matured enough to realize how important it is to have those strong and admirable female icons to represent women, and I both appreciate what we used to have and dearly miss it. Yet, the culture changed to make women look like they’re inferior to men and naturally predisposed to weakness and fear that men do not have.

    But, now that I think of it, you’re right. I grew up mostly with video games as my main media source. The video games that I grew up with, contrary to what some people like to bullshit, represented women in much better ways. Women were cops that wore sensible clothes and could take down biological terrors as easily as or even better than men without a flinch. Women were raiders of tombs that braved unfamiliar territory for lost treasures with cheeky tough fun. Even the “damsels” like Rosa from FF4, acted selflessly and smart to help those around them. And the stories of the games themselves put positive virtues above all else. Today’s games prize cruelty and brutality, especially toward women, even when they’re the stars of their own games. And the developers of today have no problem with turning former icons into pathetic shells defined by men that forced them to become something they never wanted to be.

    If your women are walking around terrified of using a gun or any weapon when men take them up with hardly a second thought, if your women can’t handle the idea of killing without needing to be barked at by a man or nearly killed by one while men can do it without batting an eye, and if your women need to get all bruised and cut up wearing clothes that bare skin while men are impervious juggernauts covered head to toe in body armor… they’re not admirable. They’re the weaker, more pathetic sex. And those are the “women” we have in the industry today.

    @54: “Women like to be looked at” is a terrible and false statement in any form. That’s about as true as saying “men love war.” Some men love war, not all of them. Some women like to be looked at, not all of them. Some women liking to be looked at does not justify the implication that it somehow means it’s the proper way to treat all women, just like it would be wrong to bring back the draft by claiming a few men loving war must mean all of them are eager to kill other men and possibly die.

    #98 12 months ago
  99. cw5th

    @93:

    Oh you can ask questions and say that you don’t think that their way is the right one but nobody has the right to see their own way as moraly superior or something like that. Many people in the west are trying to force their way on other cultures and that is plain wrong.

    Ignore it, don’t buy it and tell your friends that you think that this game isn’t good because xyz.

    #99 12 months ago
  100. YoungZer0

    @98: Oh man, I was thinking the same thing! Best thing on Youtube!

    “I love you Vegina!” :P

    #100 12 months ago
  101. cw5th

    @100:

    “Some women like to be looked at, not all of them. Some women liking to be looked at does not justify the implication that it somehow means it’s the proper way to treat all women, just like it would be wrong to bring back the draft by claiming a few men loving war must mean all of them are eager to kill other men and possibly die.”

    And where exactly are these statements in this game that every woman likes to be stared at and be “courted” with gifts and attention?

    The “women” in these scenes are isolated woman that seems to like the way the protagonist is “dating” them. Nobody ever says that every woman is like these women…

    Only the vocal pc femenist crowd tries to warp the scenes to fuel their agenda.

    #101 12 months ago
  102. salarta

    @101: The statement is in the action via those gigolo missions. Those gigolo missions are essentially a statement that the proper way to treat women is to give them generically stereotypical “romantic” gifts (because a love of flowers is just ingrained into all female biology, right?) and ogle their bodies as if they’re mainly good for sex appeal at every opportunity, simultaneously implying that doing so and not getting caught is part of some kind of courtship “game.”

    I wish I could say that adding other women that don’t use this minigame for dates would correct the issue, but that’s not the case. The gameplay is “don’t get caught staring at their bodies.” By consequence, it says that whether or not the woman WANTS you to look at their bodies is a trifling matter. It suggests that as long as the women don’t know what’s being done to them, it’s okay to do it.

    That’s a slippery slope. One that could lead to “it’s not rape if she doesn’t know I had sex with her while she was unconscious.”

    #102 12 months ago
  103. cw5th

    @102:

    “Those gigolo missions are essentially a statement that the proper way to treat women is to give them generically stereotypical “romantic” gifts (because a love of flowers is just ingrained into all female biology, right?) and ogle their bodies as if they’re mainly good for sex appeal at every opportunity, simultaneously implying that doing so and not getting caught is part of some kind of courtship “game.””

    No. You’re trying way to hard to make this an issue. It’s one because you see it that way and you’re even writing it down for everybody to read.

    Something isn’t something just because someone says it.

    And yes, the courting is fearly normal in the eyes of many males/females that do this kind of thing every day/week/etc.

    And please don’t bring rape into something this normal, why don’t you start to compare it to the raping of children? smh…

    #103 12 months ago
  104. YoungZer0

    “Those gigolo missions are essentially a statement that the proper way to treat women is to give them generically stereotypical “romantic” gifts”

    Right. And violent videogames are the reason why schoolshootings happen.

    #104 12 months ago
  105. salarta

    @103: I never said it makes people commit such acts. I said it’s a slippery slope that leads to that kind of logic. It’s more a matter that it opens the door for an excuse for bad behavior to be taken up, and makes it a little looser for people to accept that kind of excuse or follow through on it if they’re already considering such behavior and simply need an excuse. It’s not the game’s fault, it’s the person’s fault, and if this is what Suda wants to do then he has every right to do it. But, it’s also important to consider what it’s saying.

    The gifts portion of what I said is less about gift-giving and more about the generic nature. Older games treated gift-giving as “remember that different women like different things, give them something they like.” This, “give them any generic thing, all women are guaranteed to love flowers.”

    #105 12 months ago
  106. stalepie

    Suda should’ve made the weapon a dick and then every time you fuck it powers up.

    #106 12 months ago
  107. absolutezero

    Hi there! Well this went a bit mental which I predicted when it originally went up by accident (btw well done on the title change Dave, much love.)

    Over the few days since it was hastily removed to save the world from written words about a game that has numerous full play-throughs already available on youtube, I have been thinking about the idea of being ashamed of a game if someone walked in on you playing it. The idea stuck and got me thinking about other games that had that effect turned up to 11 and here is a short list of shit that bubbled to the surface. I actually had the horror of my Father walking in on me playing one of these, can you guess which one and perhaps how I managed to explain it?

    1. http://youtu.be/w9HM3-5rWYo Tali sings. My anus seals over completely. “I’m as free as the dust in the solar winds.”

    2. http://youtu.be/XuRi5FPdgU0 Madison Paige Rape Escape!

    3. http://youtu.be/8NMnnMRWJ-0 Remember. Bad writing.

    4. http://youtu.be/4IQf9tp3QTU All of Kane and Lynch 2. Fucking all of it.

    5. http://youtu.be/bTub2tSCDT0 Hitman Nuns.

    6. http://youtu.be/TyUArTDYYVc Donte.

    You might not be cringing at any of those, I know I did. Alot. More than in any Suda game I’ve ever played. It has X-Ray spex to look at clothed boobs, not even nudity. Its patently absurd in the extreme, like running across a giant Paula while trying to get to a demonic stripper. Its creepy, voyeuristic and childish yet I find myself not giving a shit because some of my favourite movies of all time are all three of those things, its naff its grindhouse and its knowing.

    Yet again I will say again that no creative media “grew up” by cutting things that people disliked, if anything it made more extreme content to see where the boundaries lay and its still going on, from Emin’s bed to A Serbian Film. We in video games must not offend anyone though, ever, least they be offended.

    On the other hand watch this! : http://youtu.be/VuuWRodHq8w

    byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    Oh and on the subject of voyeurism which seems to be a specific bug bear, Suda himself has created an entire game about it before. Michigan Report From Hell (which if the in-game map is to be believed is not set in Michigan) casts you as a camera during a zombie monster outbreak thing, you can a couple of ways of interacting with the game but most of it is about filming the pretty lady news anchor and exploring the story. You can stand back and film her die at the first monster or you can interject and save her. The health bar is ratings, viewer figures. When one presenter dies shes replaced by another and the next level starts.

    Its far far more questionable than anything in this.

    #107 12 months ago
  108. monkeygourmet

    @107

    Title has changed hasn’t it? I thought I was going mad. Good stuff Dave!

    Also, funny list! :)

    #108 12 months ago
  109. absolutezero

    I dare you to play this

    http://armorgames.com/play/15441/broken-dreams

    I triple dare you.

    #109 12 months ago
  110. GodHandCooper

    Did everyone forget Lollipop Chainsaw!? This game was rampant with its sexism tho starred a character who embellished it while being completely unaware of it at the same time. IT WAS COMMENTARY. The reviews were awful(understandably so, the gameplay and story aren’t as good as previous suda joints tho i still enjoyed its unique tongue-in-cheekyness. Regardless, the game is Suda’s best-selling game yet…

    The real issue here, and I can’t completely say for sure as I haven’t played the game yet(going to pick it up soon) is that this is commentary. Nearly all of his games push towards a Kubrickian sense of subconscious use of imagery and gameplay to build the experience. If you feel sick or ashamed it’s because you’re supposed to. This guy, Mondo Zappa, in many ways reminds me of the extremely western James Bond. James Bond goes around seducing random women and blowing shit up, followed by saving the world. What point does this have? What does a secret agent have to do with sex and blowing shit up anyway!? Well, this game is asking you that question directly, since you have to actually seduce women to get upgrades and therefore have an easier time at the shit-blowing-up. It’s a commentary on where james bond came from and what the idea actually means. LOVE AND KILL. It’s been there in the game’s advertising since day one. As far as I’m concerned, this mini-game is very far from an accident. It’s the point of the game. In fact, sex and killing are almost always directly connected in Kubrick films(mostly in Dr. Strangelove).

    If you are too ashamed to play the game, then don’t. There’s other shit going on here, and people can go and watch hella nudity and objectification in Game of Thrones and not complain while this game gets shit for it. Is maturity a matter of respecting everything we want society to be right now!? Or is it also about painting an accurate, if disgusting and shameful, portrait of the history we are trying to pull ourselves out of.

    Art MUST go both ways and for video games to evolve into an adult artform there must be room for all of it.

    #110 12 months ago
  111. Professor Zoom

    Why is suddenly everything about the Gigolo minigames? GTA is much worser and it makes much lesser sense to go to the stip bars in that game. JESUS CHRIST, Dave, if you don’t like it, then it might not might not be a game for you, don’t play it if you don’t like it, so far I’m through episode 7 and quite frankly I haven’t experienced any of the complains people are screaming about, the graphics are truly unique, something I’ve never seen before, the gameplay is great, the story is great, the combat system is great, and the missions are fun.

    Rating: 8.5.

    #111 11 months ago
  112. EvasiveGnosis

    The problem isn’t sexism in Japan, it’s the countries views on sexual content in the media. This kind of stuff isn’t limited to females, and to claim the opposite as fact is simply ignorant. They aren’t going to remove this feature, which is somewhat integral to gameplay, with the localization, simply due to the fact that it will offend some of the western audience.

    #112 11 months ago

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