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EverQuest Next to eschew traditional “holy trinity” of MMOs

Thursday, 8th August 2013 21:23 GMT By Stephany Nunneley

SOE has confirmed that the holy trinity will not be a factor in EverQuest Next, since the game is moving away from your traditional form of MMO combat.

Speaking with USgamer during SOE Live, senior producer Terry Michaels explained how the different classes and builds can instead be combination of all roles.

“The dedicated roles of the holy trinity are not going to be present in Everquest Next,” he said. “There will be different classes and different builds that are angled towards some of the roles, so there might be a class or a build that is more tankish but you don’t need that person to accomplish that goal and content.

“You can go in there without having somebody who is the stereotypical tank.”

The change was implemented in part to the new combat mechanics -such as the lack of a typical “threat mechanic”.

In most MMOs, the tank is usually the character which holds all the aggro while the rest of the group works on burning the enemy down. If you have a good enough tank, he or she will hold aggro the entire time, leaving your ranged and crowd-control characters to take care of the adds while your healer does what it does best.

Sound like this will not be the case with EverQuest Next, which from everything we’ve heard so far, will not be your typical MMO in anyway shape or form.

You should really give the USgamer link above a read, it’s really informative a rather entertaining.

No date has been set for the new MMO, but you can register for the beta.

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16 Comments

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  1. Erthazus

    That is kind of Guild Wars 2… But Guild Wars 2 was a mess in this stuff.

    SOE says that AI in Everquest Next is so fucking brilliant that you can execute tactics with your party without a Tank or a healer.

    And I don’t believe them. Even if you have good AI, I don’t understand how Tank or other guy can hold the enemies without a Threat meter.

    In GW2 it is a mess. AI is so bad and enemies are everywhere and they are running around and the only tactic is Zerg rush or Rax at best. If this is going to be the same thing in EQN then fuck this. There are no games that did it right without Holy Trinity.

    + Everquest was actually The First game that created that mechanic for MMO’s which is interesting (! ! !)

    #1 12 months ago
  2. KineticCalvaria

    @1, nothing wrong with AI in Guild Wars 2, it’s pretty much your typical cannon fodder enemies that are in all mmo’s.

    This does sound more and more like Guild Wars 2 the more I hear of it.

    #2 12 months ago
  3. Erthazus

    @1, Yeah. You are right but that is the problem. In GW2 you can’t hold the enemies and you can’t execute tactics at all so in the end all battles are Zerg Rush at best without any tactic.

    I like combat mechanics in GW2 for SOLO but I absolutely hate what they did with a party.

    #3 12 months ago
  4. KineticCalvaria

    @3, I get what your saying but at the same time I never really liked how easy a game would become with threat in it, at least in Guild Wars 2 everybody has to keep on their toes.

    It does lack teamwork somewhat but maybe Everquest can do a better version of it which will require players to work together.

    #4 12 months ago
  5. Stephany Nunneley

    @4 Threat mechanics can work properly and not make things “easy” if done correctly. I can’t count how many times aggro was pulled off a tank in a 6-man by a fellow hunter who wasn’t doing their job properly.

    But then again I am not sure how threat works in all MMOs, so it may make things easy in some and I just don’t know about it – so ignore me :D :D

    #5 12 months ago
  6. Erthazus

    I read the US Gamer and just (!) wow (!) how many technologies they are using.

    They are using Voxel Farm, synchronization mechanisms for less latency in the game even if you are destroying the whole world with the whole server, emergent AI with mobs… They are testing First person view + Oculus Rift.

    Something tells me that these guys are doing fantastic things with tech and not so much with the game. A lot of future proof concepts. A lot. how much Sony spent money on this game…

    #6 12 months ago
  7. sebastien rivas

    @ 1
    I kind agree with you about Gw2 but I do not want to make associate EQ_Next to Gw2. It makes me ponder and wonder what good will come out of EQ_Next so wait and see.

    Yet regarding Gw2 you can make your toon into a group support and such but the effect is so limited that you better build to either hit hard and fast or dodge/hit.

    Though you do have a kind of threatmeter in Gw2 which can be felt against big bosses. As a warrior you can get the mob’s attention, at least for some time so after it depends how hard others hit the big boss. I have never been aggro by a boss probably because my build was my own and not optimised from google.com nor from stuffed up to the throat.

    All in all, Gw2 was and still is not for me. I completely agree with your post “3″.

    #7 12 months ago
  8. sebastien rivas

    @6
    Everything sounds like great promising concepts and tech. I hope it delivers in terms of experience and gameplay and immerssion.

    #8 12 months ago
  9. Erthazus

    @sebastien rivas, “I kind agree with you about Gw2 but I do not want to make associate EQ_Next to Gw2.”

    I don’t want that either… but 4 weapon slots and 4 abilities, no holy trinity. So much of GW2 Lol. :D I hope that it will be much better.

    #9 12 months ago
  10. sebastien rivas

    @ 9

    Same here, I don;t like limitations, yet, I enjoy massive choice of mechanics and group mechanics.

    Let’s see :)

    #10 12 months ago
  11. GwynbleiddiuM

    Call me old fashioned but Holy Trinity is why I like MMOs. Even in Neverwinter being a cleric is a huge bonus while you deal a lot of damage too.

    #11 12 months ago
  12. TheWulf

    @1

    It’s also Mass Effect 3′s multiplayer. This is what people seem to forget, really, and probably conveniently so. It wasn’t the lack of the trinity that lead to GW2′s eventual downfall, it was that the AI never evolved beyond what you saw at the start of the game.

    So, as a charr, at the start of GW2 I’d just have Flame Legion troops blundering in my direction, and the gameplay did involve zerging. That’s fine, people are practising their abilities and getting to know their characters, there’s nothing wrong with that. After Guild Wars 1, however, I was expecting them to ramp up the AI difficulty, and they never did. So unlike some others, I actually found GW2 to be way, way too easy. I know some have claimed that it’s a hard game, but I genuinely didn’t find it to be, all you required was some spatial awareness and good reflexes.

    So where I was hoping GW2 would go with its AI, it never did. I had that hope because GW1′s AI is good. Also good is the AI of Mass Effect 3′s multiplayer. Does ME3 have a trinity? Noap! Not even remotely. So what makes the multiplayer of ME3 so compelling and fun? Good AI. The AI in ME3′s multiplayer knows how to flank, how to trick you, how to setup traps, how to use the environment against you, and more.

    For example, the Cerberus AI specifically knows how to setup smoke bombs at choke points to cover the entry of their units. For example, Cerberus can hit you with a smoke bomb, whilst an Atlas fires missiles from behind the smoke shield, a cloaked Phantom uses the distraction to sneak in, and a sniper starts trying to pick you off from behind. The AI is actually fairly smart and it’s a joy to watch, sure, eventually you get how the AI works and you begin to anticipate their tactics, but until you’re fully acclimatised it can be hard, and even then when you’re operating like a well oiled machine, they can still trip you up with a well placed smoke bomb and engineer turret.

    So it’s the AI that makes the difference, not the holy trinity. And the downfall of GW2′s AI was that it never ended up being as good as ME3′s. You really need foes which are intelligent.

    Even in Guild Wars 1, you had crowds of foes which were smart. You’d have ranged characters that would run for high perches to rain things down on you from above, you’d have buffers, debuffers, and controllers hanging at the back of a crowd, you’d have ranged magic users sidling up behind the close quarters combat guys for protection, and the aforementioned mêlée guys would actually try and distract you by trying to splitting the players into groups so that they could pick off the weakest members, or by trying to flank the party. I remember being amazed at being flanked by low levelled opponents in the first campaign of Guild Wars.

    AI provides the challenge, without good AI there’s only zerging. Even if you have the trinity, it’s just an excuse for bad AI. And if I were given the choice between a system that was an excuse for bad AI, or actually having good AI and casting aside now unnecessary excuses? I’d choose the good AI.

    #12 12 months ago
  13. TheWulf

    @9

    It’s incorrect to make the assumption that more abilities results in a less skilful game. As I’ve pointed out before, VVVVVV is essentially a one-button game, but it’s a one-button game that would leave you crying for your mother. And I’d advise you to stay away from “I wanna be the guy: Gaiden” because of your views on skill. Your opinions regarding skill and mine actually differ.

    Your opinion of skill is that time is the same as skill. My opinion of skill is that… well, skill is skill. In other words, a WoW player only needs time to get the best gear, then it’s facerolling from there on out. Whereas someone who plays games like VVVVVV and Street Fighter II actually require honest to goodness skill.

    Skill is about games with meaningful inputs, where each button actually does something that matters, and you have to know how to use it well. You can have variety by binding different skills to the limited amount of buttons you have, but skill is about using the resources you have well, and not being a walking god like you are in WoW.

    Let me give you an example. I know of a guy who beat veni vidi vici on his sixth try, and edge games on his second try. Now, that’s skill. That’s honest to goodness skill, the real kind, not having a level 100 character with tier 10 armour or what have you.

    You can have variety and meaningful inputs, but if you have too many inputs then the inputs stop being meaningful because the game essentially turns into facerolling. That’s why a raid will never require skill in the way that VVVVVV does, or even in the way that ME3′s multiplayer on platinum does. I can actually solo ME3′s gold difficulty occasionally and I consider myself on the lower echelons of skilful gamers, so I’m not really sure where you are.

    I don’t think that having an addon that says “PRESS BUTTON 43 NOW!” and then pressing button 43 actually amounts to skill. That sounds more like busywork.

    If the small pool of buttons in Everquest Next are meaningful inputs and not just there for button-spam, then it doesn’t matter if they’re limited.

    #13 12 months ago
  14. Kreion

    I am cautiously optimistic about this game, but at the same time a lot of what they’ve said was bought up when GW2 was coming out. Personally I liked the game, but even then I still didn’t put much time into that game after capping.

    I feel like I’d need more to draw me into another MMO, but still this has a lot of interesting features. If it can actually be pulled off or not is another matter…

    #14 12 months ago
  15. Puggy

    I don’t know… maybe I am getting old and grumpy, but I have heard These lines way too often. Even sounds a bit like SWTOR with all their we Need no trinity, everyone can be everything talk at first. And if you do not need any special build or role combination to finish any content, wouldn’t it choices in that area won’t matter? Or does it merely mean you can have A lot of different hybrids, still you will need a certain combination of builds to actually finish content?

    With MMOs, you always best wait for them to be actually available. This one does sound a lot like the old GW2 soup, which did not catch me. We will see sooner or later I assume.

    #15 12 months ago
  16. Vice

    As much as I hate holy trinity, I agree that GW2 was a total mess pve-wise. It’s really good in pvp though, if you don’t have to worry that much about unkillable tanks or super annoying healers.

    #16 12 months ago