Nintendo issues friendly reminder for Nintendo Direct E3, Reggie says hi

Friday, 7 June 2013 16:05 GMT By Stephany Nunneley

Nintendo has issued a friendly reminder for its Nintendo Direct E3 session on June 11, and it has also released a video of NoA president Reggie Fils-Aime “welcoming” folks to E3. The sessions takes place at 7.00am PT/10.00am ET/3.00pm UK.


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  1. spazman

    Fuck off Reggie, and take that box opening numbnut with you.

    #1 2 years ago
  2. Pytox

    Reggie my body is ready

    #2 2 years ago
  3. ActionGameKing

    Gotta love Reggie!

    #3 2 years ago
  4. mistermogul

    Show me the games Reggie!

    #4 2 years ago
  5. backup

    watch sony’s E3 then :P

    #5 2 years ago
  6. Lengendaryboss

    The fact that he has to do that screams echoes about Nintendo’s game lineup.

    #6 2 years ago
  7. The_Red

    Even with limited games, Wii U is better than a DRM-bound, anti-consumer console like X1 with 1000000 games. Yes, I know consoles are about games but when it comes to always-online DRM, the thing (Game, system, etc) loses everything. This is a IMO case which has led to me boycotting Diablo 3 and SM5. Sure, they sold a lot but I still won’t touch anything with that sort of DRM.
    Even with all the games in the world, an always-online, anti-consumer console can go fuck itself.

    #7 2 years ago
  8. Lengendaryboss

    True, but people will still buy it.

    #8 2 years ago
  9. The_Red

    Sad and true indeed :(
    I mean, if people had shown a bit of restraint and avoided Diablo 3, EA wouldn’t have done the same with Sim City and MS would have thought a lot more about online stuff before implementing them.

    It’s super annoying how the masses always keep paying for less and less. As it was discussed in the new Xbox1 story, there are already a lot of essential human rights gone and soon, we will be losing more of the luxurious ones in gaming and other hobbies because people don’t care.

    I know a single boycott from me means nothing in this case but I will still do it, not because I have any fake notions or love boycotting (Really wanted to play Diablo 3) but because I can’t bring myself to support that kind of behavior. I’ll just wait and hope that Remedy’s games come to PC like Alan Wake (I had played the original on 360 and recently got the super discounted bundle on Steam for $4). Alan Wake may be my fave 360 game but even Alan Wake 2 and Quantum game can’t make me pay for a disgusting system like X1 as long as its current policies are in place.

    #9 2 years ago
  10. ps3fanboy

    hi Reggie, don’t listen to the haters its just xbots that have gone off the cliff… because they got always on and drm infested xbone. i’m looking forward to what you have to show. i have gained more respect for your company, since micro$haft don’t care for gamers anymore.

    #10 2 years ago
  11. Lengendaryboss

    Oh dear lord.

    #11 2 years ago
  12. sh4dow

    Holy crap that video has a shitload of likes. Have ANY multiplatform gamers seen it yet? o_O (Because even those few dislikes must just be disgruntled Nintendo fanboys)

    #12 2 years ago
  13. Francis O

    @Legendaryboss, not defending the Xbone now that the facts are out? LOL, it’s a anti-consumer POS.

    Anyway for those that are interested check out this article on X or Xenoblade 2

    #13 2 years ago
  14. Joe Musashi

    Self-promoting and linking to your own site again, Francis?

    Stay classy.


    #14 2 years ago
  15. Lengendaryboss

    Yes Francis now that the facts are out now you know not rumours. What relevance does that have here.
    He has his own site? Wonder why he comes here when he has created Nintendo heaven :)

    #15 2 years ago
  16. Joe Musashi

    True believers are often tasked to take pilgrimage to foreign lands in order to spread The Good Word and bring enlightenment to the uneducated masses.


    #16 2 years ago
  17. monkeygourmet


    Stop, your hogging all the ‘pretentious’!

    #17 2 years ago
  18. Joe Musashi

    How unexpected! Seconds after you chastise me for not ignoring a post, you exhibit precisely the same behaviour.

    You have an admirably reliable trend of demonstrating your inability to practice what you preach.


    #18 2 years ago
  19. monkeygourmet


    Takes one to know one Joe! :)

    Your pedestal is a lot higher than mine though…

    #19 2 years ago
  20. Lengendaryboss

    @Monkey +Joe
    Please lets not bring religious themes into this creep discussion, neither one of you have God status, I have spoken :)

    #20 2 years ago
  21. Francis O

    @Legendaryboss and Joe

    Legendaryboss, I like games first. If Sony has games I want to play, I’ll buy them. I have a PS3 and Xbox 360 and A PC that will make the PS4 and Xbox 720 look weak. When Final Fantasy 15 comes to PS4….you better believe I’m getting one.

    Joe, exactly what did I do wrong? I think it’s a good article and it’s posted in a NINTENDO article. Why don’t you get your Nintendo hating ass off of this article dude. We all know you don’t like Nintendo, why do you keep clicking on their articles?

    #21 2 years ago
  22. sg1974


    Oh yes, Nintendo. I remember them.

    #22 2 years ago
  23. monkeygourmet


    Nintendo are in a great position, what with all the DRM shit from MS… unless they fuck things up royally, obviously.

    #23 2 years ago
  24. sg1974

    Not many gamers are going to jump from 360 to WiiU when it appears most publishers are passing on Ninty’s latest under-TV console though.

    #24 2 years ago
  25. Joe Musashi

    Francis, of course you think the article you linked to is a good article. You wrote it yourself.


    #25 2 years ago
  26. Lengendaryboss

    But its still not relevant to E3 unless you know something we don’t.

    #26 2 years ago
  27. Francis O

    Whats not relevant to E3? Xenoblade 2 or X is relevant to E3. Nintendo is set to show more footage of the game at the E3 Nintendo Direct.

    Or are you talking about Final Fantasy? Yes FF vs 13 has been re-branded as FF 15 and put as a exclusive or timed exclusive for the PS4. It’s a rumor, but my tipster told me this.

    I’m not the raging fanboy you guys think I am. I just like games and I like my rights. Microsoft and Sony to a extent are trying to take away my rights to own a game I purchase.

    #27 2 years ago
  28. Lengendaryboss

    What you linked from your own website was you trying to prove that games on Nintendo platforms selling low numbers is not as bad as its seems for the developers and publishers (We had that debate before guess we know where the inspiration came from) and you actively promoting Nintendo’s system seller Xenoblade 2 via your site to VG247 that is what has no relevance here, we get it you like Nintendo just don’t link it again even if you think its a good article.

    #28 2 years ago
  29. Joe Musashi

    I’m not the raging fanboy you guys think I am.

    How do you know what sort of raging fanboy you think we think you think you’re not? own a game I purchase

    You don’t purchase the game. You purchase access to the game. Ownership of the game isn’t yours. Rights based on ownership are not being challenged because you don’t own it.

    My tipster told me this.


    #29 2 years ago
  30. Clupula

    @16 – Hahahahahaa

    #30 2 years ago
  31. Dragon246

    Francis hitting and running again, leaving behind as he does so.

    #31 2 years ago
  32. Lengendaryboss

    Francis says he borrows some games from his friends and family, so its free access to the games.

    #32 2 years ago
  33. monkeygourmet

    lol at people going for the ‘easy’ target again.

    #33 2 years ago
  34. Lengendaryboss

    Look at who started this, its his fault.

    #34 2 years ago
  35. Clupula

    #35 2 years ago
  36. Clupula

    @33 – Seriously, though, you can’t blame us, when we’re all, you know, practicing our archery, when the naked guy with a bull’s eye painted on his ass starts dancing in front of us going, “You know you wanna shoot me! DO IT! DO IT! DO IT!”

    #36 2 years ago
  37. monkeygourmet


    #37 2 years ago
  38. Clupula

    On topic, though…I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Reggie’s giant pumpkin head makes me want to punch him. It just enrages me for some reason.

    #38 2 years ago
  39. monkeygourmet


    lol :)


    I know what your saying, I think Francis does have good points though, it’s just hard for him to appear as anything other than a complete Nintendo fanboy. ;)

    #39 2 years ago
  40. Francis O

    Let me address the asshole Dragon246 first.

    poopessence? Did you think of that one yourself? That was as creative as Sony’s decision to name the the successor to the PS3 the PS4.

    Joe – I own games I purchase! If I want to play it at a friends house, I should have the right to do so with no questions asked, I don’t need to have a internet connection, or checks every fucking hour, that’s bullshit.

    Legendary – I said “for those interested” So I addressed the subject in the this article and left it up to those interested to click on the article.

    And the article is good, and it has over 1200 hits.

    It doesn’t bash MS or Sony. Is it bad to have a positive article on Nintendo? I know VG247 is all about negative shit when it comes to Nintendo but every site doesn’t have to be like that.

    Clupula,Legendary, Joe, Dragon, I don’t even know why any of you clowns click on Nintendo’s articles. It’s not like you guys like them or are even planning on getting a Wii U. What’s the point of continually coming to their articles?

    Monkeygourmet – Messing with Legendary, Dragon, and Joe is fun. They get riled up easily. I know when I address one of them, the others will come pouring in. Broke Back Mountain with Dragon-Joe-Legendary

    #40 2 years ago
  41. monkeygourmet

    Good riposte Francis!

    Don’t let the buggers get you down! :)

    #41 2 years ago
  42. ps3fanboy

    @Joe Musashi, get your Nintendo hating ass off of this article you troll. We all know you don’t like Nintendo!

    #42 2 years ago
  43. Clupula

    @40 – For me, it was mostly, “Oh, Francis is getting into it again. Oooh, he quotes his own website. Let’s check out this week’s exciting episode.”

    #43 2 years ago
  44. Clupula

    @42 Pot, you need to stop being so racist to Kettle.

    #44 2 years ago
  45. ps3fanboy

    the mod should seriously ban this Clupula troll, all he do is spreading his hate and stalking people that try to have a discussion.

    #45 2 years ago
  46. monkeygourmet


    Life used to be so much more simple, when we could just make up sayings based on Kitchen Utensils…

    #46 2 years ago
  47. Dragon246

    “And the article is good, and it has over 1200 hits.”
    1200 hits. Yup, that’s got be your sites record. Very popular indeed.
    “I know VG247 is all about negative shit when it comes to Nintendo but every site doesn’t have to be like that. ”
    I don’t even know why you click on VG247 articles. It’s not like you like it or are even planning on doing a useful contribution. What’s the point of continually coming to their articles?

    #47 2 years ago
  48. Clupula

    @45 – Hahahahaha…yes, Mr. Aidsfire. Or was it Canceraids. Whatever offensive bullshit you pulled out of your neckbeard the other day when you were making rape threads. You certainly are in a position to be a judge of others.

    Also, it’d be, “All he does.”

    #48 2 years ago
  49. Francis O

    @41- I would never let a few Drones to scared to debate me face to face get me down. I don’t on the internet to cowards.

    #49 2 years ago
  50. Clupula

    @49 – Why, Francis, I do believe that was a homophobic statement. Those are ban-able around here. Might want to do some editing before someone reports you.

    #50 2 years ago
  51. Francis O

    Dragon247 – that had to be the worst response I’ve ever seen…. LOL.

    No it’s not my sites record, my sites record is this article that was all over the internet when I broke the news.

    VG247 also put up the article hella late but they put it up

    This article almost got 100,000 hits.
    And I’ve had multiple other articles pull 10,000-30,000 hits.

    Now….have a seat clown.

    #51 2 years ago
  52. Francis O


    I don’t need to edit anything. Saying there Brokeback Mountain is not homophobic. It’s a movie. The guys in the movie are good friends that help each other. Thats what Dragon-Legendary-Joe do, come to each others aid.

    Nothing homophobic about that, you’re just assuming it is.

    #52 2 years ago
  53. monkeygourmet


    Nothing wrong with being a gay cowboy…

    It could be a lot worse, you could be a gay nazi.

    #53 2 years ago
  54. Clupula

    @52 – Hmmmmm…so, it seems that whenever there’s positive Wii U news around the net, that you’re the one creating it. Got it. I’ll know to read positive Nintendo news in the future with a grain of salt, knowing that it might have been created by someone with an agenda.

    Second, you’re so hostile. No need to be, little buddy.

    Come on, people now
    Smile on your brother
    Everybody get together
    Try to love one another
    Right now…

    #54 2 years ago
  55. Lengendaryboss

    Wahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :) What you say doesn’t bother me i have dealt with worse and gave back worse. I am just going to say this once, just once : I DON’T HATE NINTENDO I just point out their faults like i point out Sony’s poor marketing skills (I even made a forum post about it) in that post i made complementary remarks about MS and Nintendo efforts in this area, MS incessant focus on TV and Nintendo its usually third party support, i have owned every Nintendo handheld (Besides 3DS) and heavily considered buying a GC for the MGS remake, see Francis thats all it takes for Nintendo to get me. I would come to your aid if there was a Sony or MS version of you :)

    #55 2 years ago
  56. Francis O

    @Clupula – Yup I’m the only one creating positive news on the Wii U.

    @Legendary – You guys at VG247 are funny bunch.

    #56 2 years ago
  57. Clupula

    @57 – I don’t know. You’ve created doubt in my mind. I thought I could trust the media, but now, my whole world is shattered.

    #57 2 years ago
  58. Joe Musashi

    “I own games I purchase”

    But you don’t purchase a game. You purchase a software licence which permits access to a game under the terms of the licence. Once you understand what your money is buying, you can start arguing about what it is you own.

    All arguments based on the false assumption of ownership are completely moot. Raging and banging on about rights doesn’t change the fact that you don’t actually own the game.


    #58 2 years ago
  59. CyberMarco

    meanwhile on VG24/7

    Edit, dont know why the first video disappear…

    #59 2 years ago
  60. Clupula

    @61 – Great. Now, I have an erection.

    #60 2 years ago
  61. ps3fanboy

    @Clupula, the real world is something you seems to be very out of touch with. if the criticism of the xbone that is killing gaming as we speak, is too much for you. then you needs to buck up or puck off.

    … and by the way you have been reported to pat, you will be taken care of shortly!

    #61 2 years ago
  62. monkeygourmet


    Holy fuck!

    That was a complete beat down! :/

    And it settles the age old debate:

    Brunette’s > Blondes

    #62 2 years ago
  63. Clupula

    @63 – Yes, I am sure you’ll be listened to after the shit you were posting yesterday.

    #63 2 years ago
  64. Lengendaryboss

    Yeah nows its got too hectic in here, i’m getting my ass out of here :)

    #64 2 years ago
  65. Francis O


    - Stop with the bullshit please. I buy a game, I own that game. I can play that game whenever I want on my system. That’s how it’s always been for consoles.

    If you like this DRM BS then go ahead and damage control/defend it. But every game I own on the Wii U, 3DS, 360, PS3 is mine. I don’t need permission to play nor do I need internet checks to play it.

    #65 2 years ago
  66. Clupula

    @66 – Yeah, seriously, it is sad how one person can just ruin an entire thread with his trolling. But I guess he needed a break from the 50 forum posts he makes a day that no one bothers to read, except to tell him to fuck off.

    #66 2 years ago
  67. CyberMarco

    @ Legendary


    #67 2 years ago
  68. monkeygourmet


    #68 2 years ago
  69. CyberMarco



    #69 2 years ago
  70. ps3fanboy

    @65- what shit?… for telling the truth that people are being raped by micro$haft, and lose all their customer rights, and generations of gaming will be lost?… that xbots praise micr$haft as the second coming after what they have done to them??… that is how people act with stocholm syndrome. you call that shit???, it is the truth. this the reality of what is happening… i gave the wake up call and brainwashed cry babies shoot it down. i did nothing wrong. and anyone with a bit of common sense can see that.

    #70 2 years ago
  71. CyberMarco

    Hey ps3fanboy, I’m still waiting an answer, how old are you?

    #71 2 years ago
  72. monkeygourmet


    This is actually a fair point.

    #72 2 years ago
  73. Joe Musashi

    @67 I’m not with/against DRM. But I’m sorry to tell you that you don’t own any games. And that’s a fundamental concept to grasp when you’re making these arguments.

    You’re basically saying “When I buy a copy of Sergeant Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, I own the rights to The Beatles music”. Or “When I buy a ticket to a theme park, I own the theme park”. Both of which are patently false and, frankly, absurd. But you seem to believe it’s true when you hand over money in a videogame shop.

    Here’s what your money buys you:

    1) First and foremost, it buys you the software licence to the game. This is actually what 99% of the cost of your purchase represents. That software licence. You’ll find the software licence in every game you have bought. It’s doubtful you’ve ever bothered to read or even acknowledge it.

    2) Secondly, you’re provided with a copy of the data that the expensive software licence permits access to. And you’re also given a piece of media that the data is stored on. Such as a disc or a cartridge.

    Your access to that data is provided by the terms of that expensive software licence. The data and the media is complementary.

    This is why digital purchases are not really any different. You’re just not provided the data and the media as your complementary items – instead you acquire the data yourself.

    Denial and foot-stamping is not a very good argument. Not when there’s hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of examples that show otherwise. You probably have a good few of these examples in your own reach. Try opening a game manual and reading the software licence.


    #73 2 years ago
  74. monkeygourmet


    She / He’s prob legal if thats what you wanted to know?! :)

    #74 2 years ago
  75. monkeygourmet


    Why don’t you bring these facts up in other articles written by staff here on VG247?

    It’s a fact people never read small print, There’s a whole Southpark Episode on it.

    Coming across as a ‘know it all’, doesn’t really help. We all say things like:

    “im going to buy xxx game”

    we don’t say:

    “Im off to buy a licence for Mario Kart”.

    You should understand where he’s coming from even though he’s ‘technically’ wrong.


    Regardless of what abgle you want to come at it from:

    We used to be able to lend / sell or keep our licences / games, in the future, that may not be possible.

    #75 2 years ago
  76. ps3fanboy

    @66 Clupula, ppl can smell your bs along way, so don’t even try to blame others for your own doings. it is no other than you that ruin an entire thread with YOUR trolling.

    #76 2 years ago
  77. Lengendaryboss

    #77 2 years ago
  78. Lengendaryboss


    #78 2 years ago
  79. Clupula

    @81 – You, sir, win the internet.

    #79 2 years ago
  80. CyberMarco


    I’m just baffled to see someone so “violated of his rights” react so immensely over a hobby, a luxury part-time.

    There are far more serious and important things in life to protest and stand up, not some “consumer lose all their customer rights, and generations of gaming will be lost?”

    Seriously, go protest for your civil right, for the health-care system, or the educational one.

    Oh man, the ignorance…

    #80 2 years ago
  81. polygem

    oh a nintendo thread…where people complain that nintendo is only for kids and therefore not for them and then they let their inner child out in full force in the comment section over and over and over again.

    #81 2 years ago
  82. laughing-gravy

    I quite like Nintendo, Mario always makes me smile!

    #82 2 years ago
  83. monkeygourmet


    I know what you are saying, but for me, these are babysteps to draconian measures.

    It’s all part of the same media control issue, and I think videogames are a perfect ‘trojan horse’ to enforce that.

    People are almost completly addicted to certain franchises they will put up with a lot of shit just to play the next Halo / Uncharted. Consumable media can have that draw, it’s crazy what people will ‘put up with’.

    I think it’s a massive issue and will bleed into alot of areas (internet control etc…), maybe PS3fanboy didn’t put his points over without sounding too reactionary? :)

    But, I know what you are saying, first world problems and all! ;)

    #83 2 years ago
  84. monkeygourmet



    Who stole the jam out of your doughnut? ;)

    #84 2 years ago
  85. CyberMarco

    I am all for this campaign to stand up for the consumer’s rights and what not, and as I mentioned in the forums, I wont be supporting MS (or Sony if they’ll support these tactics, even though I’m dying to play KH3).

    People should learn to behave and be aware of the audience they are addressing to. Maybe some people lack education and manners, I don’t know!


    #85 2 years ago
  86. monkeygourmet


    Also, choosing a user name is important! ;)

    #86 2 years ago
  87. polygem

    yeah i´m out of here for the rest of the day


    i feel polyjamed today

    #87 2 years ago
  88. CyberMarco

    @monkey – You mean for the replies here in the comments? Yeah, it makes our lives easier to follow the conversation.

    I would like VG24/7 to use a comment system the Disqus, where you can reply directly bellow the comment, and don’t have to search over pages to look for comment 68 or something.

    #88 2 years ago
  89. Joe Musashi

    @78 I’ve nothing against people saying “I’m going to buy Mario U” or “I’m going to buy Iron Man” at all.

    But that’s not what is being said here and so your argument that I’m taking someone to task over that wording is entirely inappropriate. Particularly as Francis has repeatedly said “I buy it so I own it” – which is a distinctly different phrase and, actually, quite incorrect in the context of videogames. So, please lay off the straw-men and argue with what is actually said, not what you imagined was said. It may suit you to be fuzzy and blur details to suit your argument, but I don’t agree or subscribe to that approach. It’s too inconsistent and far too partisan.

    Also, there is a world of difference between “know it all” and “know not very much at all”. In spite of your attempts at projection, I have never claimed I know it all. I just made a point of checking the details and keeping a sense of perspective rather than assuming something is a certain way because it suits me to think that way, and challenging a view that isn’t quite as palateable.

    I’m sure that, if internet forums were around at the time and somebody piped up and tried to convince people that the world is round and not flat then the reception would be much the same. Just because you don’t like the sound of it doesn’t mean it’s not true.

    As I have explained, regardless of what you did with games in the past, your rights are not actually changing here. You’re just being forced to acknowledge what your rights are instead of what you assumed they were. Rights have remained unchanged. What’s changing is perception and, in particular, enforcement.

    Arm-waving, name-calling, projection and anecdotal evidence changes nothing.


    #89 2 years ago
  90. Clupula

    @88 – Honestly, I feel like he does a disservice to any campaign for consumer’s rights by being a petulant asshole. Making light of rape and AIDS, as well as spamming the forum with 900 posts in a single day, and going on to every single thread to turn it into his little crusade does nothing but make people tune out whatever the point he had been trying to make was.

    It’s funny, because yesterday, I was one of the first people to say, “Hey, give him a warning, let him get his shit together. No need to ban him.” And he just started shitting on every bed from that moment forward. I don’t know if he’s acting like this because they’ve pretty much said that once E3 is over, he’s going to be taken care of, or if he’s out of his Ritalin or whatever, but as someone who is no stranger to activism, he’s doing the exact opposite of helping people realize what how dangerous some of the Xbone’s policies are.

    If he hadn’t been around here for a while, I would almost suspect he was purposely put here by Microsoft to make people think all people against their policies are sad, bed-wetting, ill-mannered children. But no, he’s been around here enough that I don’t think he’s a plant. Still, I remember his constant WiiUtanic nonsense and now, he’s on about this. If I knew nothing about videogames and he was the first person I ever encountered that supported the PS3, I would never buy the system, just to avoid association with someone who behaves in such a lowly manner.

    #90 2 years ago
  91. monkeygourmet


    lol :)


    I meant, if you choose a username like ‘ps3fanboy’, you may find it hard to sound unbiased! :)

    But, your comment suggestion would make things a lot easier!

    #91 2 years ago
  92. Clupula

    @91 – I really like Disqus, as well, but it seems to be really unpopular around here, for some reason.

    #92 2 years ago
  93. CyberMarco

    @95 – I would assume people don’t like how Disqus is structured due to the like/dislike function, same thing with the comments section at Youtube and Reddit maybe.

    #93 2 years ago
  94. monkeygourmet


    We all know what he means though.

    Like I said, the general perception is that people think they ‘own’ a product they buy.

    You are right, and technically, you own a license.

    Okay, end of arguement. Everythings fine. But of course, it isn’t in reality.

    It fucking sucks. Just because we have the technicalities sorted, doesn’t really help the situation. It is no comfort reading the ‘small print’ in this case.

    Your sole purpose seems to be ‘picking’ faults rather than contributing with discussion. We sit on the fence and only come down to pick someting apart, then jump back up there.

    Francis said:

    “I own games I purchase! If I want to play it at a friends house, I should have the right to do so with no questions asked, I don’t need to have a internet connection, or checks every fucking hour, that’s bullshit.”

    Your contribution was to pick apart the first sentence again and again. Rather than actually bother to acknowledge the part about loaning and lending games / licenses and how that effects people.

    Regrdless of the License / ownership, Francis was saying he could / can do that, but it may not be possible in the future, and I agree… That is bullshit.

    It’s a very pedantic way of viewing things. In this case you could have clearly addressed his other points considering you typed so much about Videogame licensing.

    #94 2 years ago
  95. Ireland Michael


    “Like I said, the general perception is that people think they ‘own’ a product they buy.

    You are right, and technically, you own a license.”

    @97 EU law says otherwise.

    #95 2 years ago
  96. monkeygourmet


    EU law says otherwise? To which part? Sorry, I don’t understand Michael? ( I said that last sentence in Knightrider’s car’s voice in my head! ;) )

    #96 2 years ago
  97. CyberMarco


    #97 2 years ago
  98. monkeygourmet


    Thanks @CM. Wow, that is a step forward then! Lets just hope people actually push to make it happen.

    I think Steam would be first to test this unless it’s already possible? Can you gift a game you have completed for example?

    #98 2 years ago
  99. CyberMarco

    @101 – No, once the game is activated, it’s tied to your account.

    Also this.

    #99 2 years ago
  100. Ireland Michael

    @99 My possessions are my possessions. I own everything on that disc and I can use it however the hell I want as long as I’m not illegally redistributing it or violating its intellectual IP. I can edit it however I want, manipulate it however I want, and access it however I want.

    If I wanted to hack my X1 to access the games without being online, there isn’t a single law in Europe that can stop me. In fact, the laws here *support* my right to do so. When I buy that hardware, I can hack it however I want.

    In Europe, businesses are actually scared of the consumer, not the other way around. Because there are a dozen groups breathing down their necks at all time and willing to tarnish their reputation at the drop of a hat if they try to fuck over our rights.

    I can also sell it on to whoever I want for whatever price I choose.

    Any companies that wants to try to pussy-foot their way around these laws can go take a leap off a giant cliff.

    If people want to willingly bend over and allow Microsoft to fuck them up the ass like a cheap tramp with no sense of self worth though, I guess that’s their choice.

    @102 Then you just sell your account.

    Digital distributors are currently under no obligation to implement resales into their services, but they cannot stop you from giving someone your digital possessions through legal trade through some other means.

    #100 2 years ago
  101. CyberMarco

    @103 I think that’s against the ToS of Steam too. I believe some users where banned from Steam for trying to sell their account.

    #101 2 years ago
  102. Ireland Michael

    @104 Were they from Europe?

    Because there have been multiple cases of Valve being *forced* to restore people’s access to their games after banning them, because doing so is… well… illegal.

    They can’t stop you, and any claim to the contrary is a lie. What the ToS says doesn’t mean crap in a courtroom if its violates the law.

    #102 2 years ago
  103. CyberMarco

    @105 – I would assume it happened in the US.

    I’m not a law expert, so I can’t know what the consequences would be for a multinational corporation as Valve.

    #103 2 years ago
  104. Ireland Michael

    @106 “Update: Valve has since posted on its forum that the account has been re-activated.”

    Valve can ban your account, but they *cannot* take your access to your games away from you. Any claim to the contrary is bullshit.

    #104 2 years ago
  105. redwood

    @108 complaints247! :D
    ba dum tissss!

    #105 2 years ago
  106. Lengendaryboss

    @Da Man

    #106 2 years ago
  107. CyberMarco

    @107 – Yeah, because he didn’t sell his account in the end. I just got a quick read of the ToS of Steam.

    Basically it imposes you to comply without any complaint!

    #107 2 years ago
  108. Joe Musashi

    @97 There is no point addressing what follows the “I own games I purchase” statement because the argument that followed was based on a fallacy. That is what I mean when I say all arguments based on the flawed understanding of ownership are moot.

    And really ‘perception’ means nothing. You and a million others can perceive black as white and make arguments based on that perception as much as you like.

    You ‘percieve’ detail and specifics as pedanticness. I’m sure if you found those details suited your world view you wouldn’t have an issue with them. On the other hand, it suits you to apply anecdotal evidence and attempt to give substance to ‘perception’ instead. These intangibles are meaningless and worthless. And you take particular offence at whatever I write whilst trying to tell me what I should write instead. Francis doesn’t need defending. He name-calls and attacks which invites that behaviour to be reflected. He lacks transparency and asserts his view by repetition and insistence rather than substance. By contrast I have plainly and functionally outlined the key concept that undermines his argument – which he has rudely dismissed. Your ‘perception’ is that Francis is being the victim and that I and others are attacking him. You seem oblivious to the attacks he makes on others. But I’m well aware of how his views align with yours and you never seem to question the methods employed of others when you happen to agree with them. The same methods are only an issue when you don’t approve of the end result. If you genuinely had a stance on the behaviour, you would be consistent in your critique.

    The semantic spin being employed at the expense of simple logic and common sense is utterly dismaying.


    #108 2 years ago
  109. Ireland Michael

    @112 Companies can write whatever the hell they want in a ToS or an EULA, but they are completely meaningless in a court of law if they don’t align with the law.

    EULAs are especially guilty of this. They have almost no legal weight whatever.

    Steam has had to restore accounts numerous times. Because it is illegal for them to deny you access to *your* possessions as long as they are in business.

    @113 Apparently the law is a “fallacy”.

    “That is what I mean when I say all arguments based on the flawed understanding of ownership are moot.”

    Translation: I won’t bother to actually discuss anything. I will simply claim your opinion is invalid so that I don’t have to debate it,

    “And really ‘perception’ means nothing. You and a million others can perceive black as white and make arguments based on that perception as much as you like.”

    I’m pretty sure that rule works both ways.

    At no point in your post just now did you even try and discuss any of the points raised, so… why even bother replying? Instead you just went on a tirade about “fallacies”, “semantics”, and “perception”.

    What’s that other pretentious word that’s often commonly used in situations like this?

    “Ad hominem”.

    #109 2 years ago
  110. CyberMarco

    @113 As much as corporations like to twist the words and waffle around ownership and what not, I’m not gonna bend over their will for such nonsenses. Even if they get the “law” by their side by using not always the most ethical way.

    The argument of ownership is based as such so the consumer will have even less control on what he buys. Like when I buy a music CD, I’m prohibited to rip it to my mp3 player, I’m violating the ToS and the copyright. Instead I should re-buy the digital version of the CD.

    Yeah sure, it’s like company X that is selling oranges prohibits me to make an orange juice out of my purchase. Oh, and by the way the same X company sells orange juice and wants me to buy that instead.

    If you like to play their corporate game, or ignore the facts that they are trying with every possible way to squeeze every last cent out of us you are free to do so. The rest of us can continue to live in the “illusion” of owning our brought products/goods/services.

    @114 – Yeah, I guess so…

    Ooooh! I thought of something, I’ll ask a good friend of mine who is a lawyer what the consequences would be for me and Valve if I wanted to sell my account and Valve prohibited me to. Very intriguing! xD

    #110 2 years ago
  111. Joe Musashi

    Actually, @114, I didn’t bring up the notion of perception. That red herring was introduced by another.

    By all means, people, don’t accept it.

    But that means NOT ACCEPTING IT.

    Which means not ticking the box that says “I agree” when, in fact, you don’t agree. And not carrying out actions that construe agreement when, in fact, you don’t agree.

    Actions speak louder than words. If you say you don’t agree but you act in agreement then you’ve only yourself to blame.

    Once you express agreement, your argument is done. Telling some games website how much you disagree means nothing if you then fire up your console and putting a tick in some “I agree” box. At some point in the process, you have to acknowledge that you play a part in all this and that your actions have consequences.

    Also, the law is still out on pretty much all of the “I can sell ‘my’ game” talk – but it’s always fun to see which self-interested parties like to play internet lawyer and claim otherwise. I suggest reading this recent article, written by an interactive entertainment lawyer, as a primer.

    Or, I guess, you can just stamp your feet act in denial.

    None of this changes the key principle that software ownership is never transferred. It remains with the publisher.


    #111 2 years ago
  112. monkeygourmet


    Your pedestal is wobbling.

    You came into the thread purely to goad Francis, then complain when he reacts.

    Isn’t that the type of thing you usually call other people on?

    He even qualified it:

    “Anyway for those that are interested…”

    Yet you couldn’t resist having a little poke.

    #112 2 years ago
  113. Lengendaryboss

    @All Above
    Can we kill this now?

    #113 2 years ago
  114. Joe Musashi



    #114 2 years ago
  115. Lengendaryboss

    Clearly not.

    #115 2 years ago
  116. Joe Musashi

    @120 My first response was written before your comment. I edited once I read @118.

    We cool?


    #116 2 years ago
  117. Lengendaryboss

    Ha yeah we’re cool

    #117 2 years ago
  118. ManuOtaku

    The only ones saying that games are licenses are the publishers, there is not an actual law or anything stablished in the common pratice that this is a license,and i mean with a physical disc, since is born trought an act of sale, during the act of buying the physical disc, which contains the software, which is protected under copyright laws, if the user doesnt broke this rules, he can do with the physical disc, whatever he she wants, this because of the first sale doctrine, he she controls the access to the software at their leasure because of this.

    Now with digital only, is different, they control the access, and they can call it a license, but there is not any difference between the price of buying a physical game and licesing a digital one, therefore theres a lot of things that need to be discern prior to giving legal implications as a license, at one point some guidelines by laws or international bodys that rules this is needed, theres so much uncertainties legally sepaking about this.

    P.S as for the topic at hand i think good nintendo games will come in the coming months that will helo the situation about the WiiU, they need games, and bundle a pro controller with every WiiU box to catter to the avid gamer, that will help them and a price cut will not hurt

    #118 2 years ago
  119. Joe Musashi

    “The only ones saying that games are licenses are the publishers,”



    #119 2 years ago
  120. Francis O

    Joe… try to hard man. Grow a pair and debate me on my channel since you think you know so much about what we own and what we don’t own.

    #120 2 years ago
  121. Joe Musashi

    Sorry Francis, I’ve no interest in your promoting your sense of internet celebrity.

    I’ve provided you information and resources for you to use. But, in my experience, people of one belief will refuse any information that contradicts it – so I don’t expect you to read it. You seem to be far too invested in your own words and linking to your own words to heed those of anyone else.


    #121 2 years ago
  122. Lengendaryboss

    I am the only one that finds Joe’s responses funny. @Francis What is with you and debates.

    #122 2 years ago
  123. monkeygourmet


    It’s his thing. ‘Furious Francis’. Didn’t you watch his vids? There pretty good!

    #123 2 years ago
  124. Lengendaryboss

    Thats him? Oh entertainment at its best i heard of him through many messages on YT claiming what a special character he portrays :)

    #124 2 years ago
  125. Sadismek

    @125 And what’s your channel?

    #125 2 years ago
  126. monkeygourmet


    Yep, he’s cool as fuck! Our humble VG247 forum now has celebrity status! :)

    #126 2 years ago
  127. CyberMarco

    @ Joe, so what about the link, the majority of the cases where in the US, so long live ‘Merica I guess, and the one in the EU was paring towards the right to be able to sell the good/product/service/potato and still hasn’t decided its opinion on the matter.

    So, because I don’t “agree” with their terms that means that my consumer’s rights doesn’t apply with their demands, right? Well, in what sector of this bullsh*ting capitalist system is there a product where you don’t have to blindly agree with the terms of the seller, that in this case are dictated by force! Like seriously, we must bend into their demands like mindless sheep, oh please.

    I am assuming that you are part of the industry that promotes this kind of tactics, maybe you are working for some company or something, that’s the only thing that I can get out of your words.

    It’s nice that some people just agree with the terms without even having the doubt of considering any alternative.

    I’m not against the protection of intellectual properties or copyrights of the original author/creator, but I’m not going to exploit the media for my personal profit, nor I think that the consumer who wants to sell his bought goods thinks too either.

    So, I believe that if someone is selling a limited rare golden cartridge of The Legend of Zelda for the NES for 1000$ on Ebay, Nintendo should get a cut out of this, right? That’s what Microsoft (and company) is trying to achieve.

    If so, I’ll continue living in my “denial” trying to make my consumer’s right stand.

    Cheers! :)

    P.S. Why do you keep signing with you credentials in any comment, just out of curiosity.

    #127 2 years ago
  128. monkeygourmet


    I can answer the last bit;

    Because he’s pretentious.

    Joe Musashi is the protagonist of the Shinobi games. There is absolutly no reason to use those initials as a ‘sign off’ unless your trying to create a ‘trademark’ style of posting.

    Unless obviously, his name IS Joe Mushashi, which would be very cool indeed.

    #128 2 years ago
  129. Joe Musashi

    There’s an awful lot of confident assuming going on – people believing what it suits them to believe, regardless of what the truth of the matter happens to be.

    It’s very telling that, even when you acknowledge up-to-date information that shows there is no current clear law that explicitly serves your purpose that you then decide to tip-toe around what that means so as to maintain you own personal belief of what you are and aren’t entitled to do with things that you don’t actually own.

    You can do that if you like, defiant renegade crusader that you are. But it’s precisely because of actions based on that type of attitude that the genuine owners of these items seek to enforce their rights in a more assertive manner.

    The curious thing is, I’ve not declared whether I’m for or against any of this. But simply because I refuse to join in the self-centred cries of the rest of the herd, judgements and assumptions have been made about me personally. Ad hominem indeed.


    #129 2 years ago
  130. CyberMarco

    So, let’s take it your way then. What we buy is an access to use the license, correct? Nice, then I can do what the f*ck I want with that access, I still do have the right to sell it how I see fit.

    Every other thing is corporate bullshit.

    Also, what’s your stance on the matter?


    Next time can you be a little more precise with your replies, it’s kinda hard to follow your vague statements…

    #130 2 years ago
  131. monkeygourmet

    Just look at the disclaimers in movies and DVDs:

    “The copyright license proprietor has licensed this film (including its soundtrack) comprised in this video device for home use only. All other rights are reserved. The definition of home use excludes the use of this video device at locations such as Clubs, Coaches, Hospitals, Hotels, Oil Rigs, Prisons and Schools. Any unauthorised copying, editing, exhibition, renting, exchanging, hiring, lending, public performance diffusion and/or broadcast of this video device or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and any such action establishes liability for a civil action and may give rise to criminal prosecution.”

    So poor fuckers on Oil Rigs can’t legally watch a movie or show because of this shit.

    It’s the same deal with videogames Joe. Just because you ‘technically’ own a license doesn’t mean people view it in that way. Your concentrating your efforts on a very focused point that doesn’t really go anywhere.

    Ultimately, you can lend games now and sell them. In the future that may not be possible and people are pissed off.

    The fact you are pointing out the laws to people doesn’t really help in anyway whatsoever…

    Go tell all the oilrig workers they can’t watch a DVD legally, or kids watching the Blue Planet documentary in school for example.

    #131 2 years ago
  132. Pytox

    wut how did this article move from nintendo to valve? :D

    #132 2 years ago
  133. Joe Musashi

    Sorry Cybermarco, assumptions again. Licences are typically non-transferable. And the access to the data provided by the licence is given under terms of that licence. Usually you’ll find that using the data indicates agreement with those terms. And if you want specifics, well, I suggest you read your software licences.

    Your remark of vagueness is completely unfounded. I’ve been extremely clear, gone into plenty of detail and provided resource with more clear information. It’s been so readily dismissed and manipulated and twisted by those that don’t want to consider its ramifications that I can understand if you’ve found things hard to follow. But if you read what I’ve written here, you’ll see I’ve been entirely on-point and consistent.

    All this talk of ‘perception’ or ‘interpretation’, these emotive pleas about oil-rig workers and those halcyon days of what you used to do is all very cute sounding. But it’s worthless and context is entirely irrelevant – it’s just another effort to obfuscate. Like comparing apples to oranges and saying “it’s the same deal”. This cosy habit of doing what you like with software you don’t actually own on platforms you don’t run doesn’t mean anything. Certainly not in the face of the genuine owners choosing to enforce their rights.


    #133 2 years ago
  134. monkeygourmet


    My copy of Dead Island Riptide I’m holding in my hands says:

    No rental, copying etc…, broadcast, pay to play.

    So if I upload gameplay to YouTube I’m breaking broadcast law?

    Do you work in the ‘industry’? We all know this is bullshit, like trying to stop people watch DVDs on an oil rig. It’s not going to happen and only a dick would enforce itor bring someone to task over it.

    The main ‘fact’ is that these ‘laws’ couldn’t be enforced before (as they were bullshit and anti-consumer) unless a company wanted to look like a complete dick, but now the floodgates have been opened.

    The ‘rights’ of multi national corporations rarely favour the consumer.

    #134 2 years ago
  135. Phoenixblight


    I was able to rent Dead Island Riptide and the original no problem.

    #135 2 years ago
  136. monkeygourmet


    Exactly. I presume Joe must know the reason for this. Does Blockbuster have to pay MS & Sony a license fee to be able to rent?

    A small video shop near me used to rent games? Are they breaking the law? Or is this just all bullshit?

    #136 2 years ago
  137. Joe Musashi

    “We all know this is bullshit”

    No we don’t. A lot of people want to dismiss it as bullshit because it threatens the cosy habits they’ve been accustomed to whilst they partake in their luxury hobby. What you want to believe and what is true are not always the same thing.

    And regardless of who has the rights, the rights exist. It is blatant double standards to demand your rights be acknowledged in one breath whilst dismissing the rights of any other parties the next. You don’t get to arbitrarily pick which rights and laws apply and which don’t. Well, not unless you’re some ruling dictator.


    I’ve always maintained this stance on this topic since it first existed. And the more I’ve learned of the full picture, the more cemented my view has become. When people ask me “So why don’t they stop people selling games on?” I had answered that there was no current way to enforce it and that the outrage from consumers would make the worth of the endeavour negligible – regardless of who has the rights. And, in the last few weeks, the events and the reactions have only cemented my views further.


    #137 2 years ago
  138. monkeygourmet


    ” You don’t get to arbitrarily pick which rights and laws apply and which don’t.”

    No, but people can call bullshit on it.

    My brother is a teacher and regularly brings DVDs of documentaries or interesting music or whatever into his classroom teachings.

    The kids respond really well to the visual aid alongside discussion. This is ‘technically’ illegal, but do you think anyone gives a fuck?

    Do you think the parents give a fuck? No, no one gives a shit.

    However, if these ‘laws’ start to be ‘enforced’ in the way MS is trying too, well, things like this may no longer be possible.and that’s a huge loss to consumer rights and media distribution.

    #138 2 years ago
  139. Phoenixblight

    “The kids respond really well to the visual aid alongside discussion. This is ‘technically’ illegal, but do you think anyone gives a fuck?”

    Not in America it isn’t. Fair Use Law.

    #139 2 years ago
  140. monkeygourmet

    “I’ve always maintained this stance on this topic since it first existed. And the more I’ve learned of the full picture, the more cemented my view has become. When people ask me “So why don’t they stop people selling games on?” I had answered that there was no current way to enforce it and that the outrage from consumers would make the worth of the endeavour negligible – regardless of who has the rights. And, in the last few weeks, the events and the reactions have only cemented my views further.”

    Why do you put yourself ‘outside’ the consumer position whenever you talk about scenarios like this?!

    What view is ‘cemented’ here?

    “that the outrage from consumers would make the worth of the endeavour negligible”

    And that’s it? This IS happening now, potentially to PS4 aswell to some degree.

    #140 2 years ago
  141. Joe Musashi

    Calling “bullshit on it” has no genuine impact out there in the real world. It doesn’t make laws and rights evaporate just because people choose to disregard them.

    Look how casually consumers walk over the rights of others. Assuming those others don’t give a shit. Look how seriously they’re taking it now that it’s clear they do.


    #141 2 years ago
  142. monkeygourmet


    Maybe that circumnavigates this issue.

    Also, the disclaimer on DVD’s in UK states FBI regulation, I don’t even know if they would have any jurisdiction in the UK, although I don’t know why they bother to leave it on in the first place…

    #142 2 years ago
  143. monkeygourmet


    Are you really insinuating consumers are hurting companies feelings and making them lose money?

    This whole thing is effectively ‘small print’.

    Do you think some Grandma gives a fig about the small print on a 360 game she buys for her grand child’s birthday?

    That info printed on the dead island disc is virtually unreadable. There is zero information on the box, you would only know about the licensing side of it AFTER you opened the box.

    Shouldn’t game store employees read you licensing rights when you make a purchase?

    #143 2 years ago
  144. Joe Musashi

    @145 It’s very telling you choose to interpret that my interest in considering the entire picture that I’m excluding myself as a consumer. Attempting to present me as being on one side of an ‘us and them’ scenario.

    I am not putting myself outside of anything. I’m am just as inclusive as anyone who has commented on this topic. What I am doing is looking beyond the parts that affect me personally. The more I do that, the more I become aware of the multitude of factors at play in this topic and I benefit from a better sense of perspective. It’s not a crime to consider others or try to appreciate their positions. Whether I personally agree with how it affects me or not is another matter.

    @146 I’m not insinuating anything. But the suggestion that personally dismissing rights held by others is the same thing as those rights not existing is both flawed and spectacularly selfish. Even moreso when such practitioners cry foul and believe their rights are being overlooked. Double-standards raising its head once again.

    And the topic of “Oh, I can’t read this until I open the box” is straight from the playground. That is why agreement of the software licence is inferred by choosing to proceed and use the software – something else you can’t do until you open the box. The barrage of excuses as to why you would merrily dismiss and ignore anything but the rights that benefit you is tried and tested. They hold up to as much scrutiny as claiming your dog ate your homework.

    It is your responsibility to read the licence you have bought and to which the software you are using is governed. Nobody elses. If you choose not to read the software licence you have paid for, nobody but you is at fault.


    #144 2 years ago
  145. Lengendaryboss

    Holy Moly Batman its still going on :) :D :)

    #145 2 years ago
  146. Francis O

    Joe is on some escapade to prove we don’t own our games, but nobody buys his shit he spews.

    #146 2 years ago
  147. Joe Musashi

    Still as polite and considered as always, Francis.

    Oh, and the word you’re looking for is “crusade”, not “escapade”.


    #147 2 years ago
  148. monkeygourmet


    And again… How do you FEEL about this from a consumer perspective. You haven’t really contributed anything on your personal viewpoint apart from the fact you’ve tried to use empathy when looking at things for a huge corporations viewpoint.

    All I’m getting from your attitude is the #dealwithit scenario all over again.

    #148 2 years ago
  149. Joe Musashi

    I’m empathising with all parties. But not necessarily with all individuals.

    Which is a very different stance from dismissing any views other than the ones that benefit me personally whilst positioning myself as an exploited victim who should never be held accountable for my own actions.

    It’s odd you say I haven’t contributed anything from my personal viewpoint. I’ve done plenty of that. Including an unprompted passage in #142 that you quoted and took me to task over in #145.

    You can surely understand why I find your levels of perception and interpretation as questionable when you come out with that sort of statement.


    #149 2 years ago
  150. Francis O


    escapade – An adventurous, unconventional act or undertaking.

    (looks back at all your comments)

    escapade works


    #150 2 years ago
  151. monkeygourmet


    No, what you have done is reached the point before you make a decision on how you feel. You probably disregard feelings as they cloud your ‘robot like’ judgement, but they can be interesting to discuss and help people form a three dimensional view of you.

    The point you’ve got upto is basically summed up by:

    People don’t read rights properly (even though they are almost never currently enforced) so they can’t complain when a company starts to enforce them.

    Now, most people here have gone beyond that and are coming at it from the perspective of control. The only reason MS or any company would do this is for greater control measures and maximising profits.

    These are goals, but in the most ‘anti consumer’ way possible.

    #151 2 years ago
  152. Joe Musashi

    Most people here have gone beyond that? Really? No.

    No progression has been made from the “I own it, I can do as I please” opener. All that has progressed is the myriad of excuses, dismissals, distractions and obfuscations that express that original sentiment.

    And your “people don’t read rights properly..” summary is, again, a poor interpretation and even implies a detail I have never even said.


    #152 2 years ago
  153. Ireland Michael

    I own it. I *can* do as I please with it, as long as I don’t break the law.

    There isn’t anything more that needs to be said other than that. This is a *fact* of law, at least here in Europe.

    #153 2 years ago
  154. Joe Musashi

    I guess you didn’t read that stuff written by an actual lawyer. Or the comments that followed where people declared that they don’t really need to acknowledge laws.. ..though, curiously, they were all for following laws when they thought those laws served their personal gain.

    And, nope, you don’t own the software/data. Its ownership remains with the publisher. Data isn’t a tangible product and ownership rights do not transfer in the way people are accustomed to with tangible products.


    #154 2 years ago
  155. monkeygourmet

    4. When buying a book or a DVD, it becomes your property in full.

    I have seen some people argue that when you buy a book or DVD, you don’t actually own it; that you would somehow pay money to license a set of rights that include the right to sit down and enjoy its entertainment, but would not include the right to copy it. This is factually and legally wrong. When you buy media, you buy the whole media. It becomes your property in full, including everything encoded onto it.
    So if it’s your property, why can’t you copy it freely? That’s because another law – the copyright monopoly – steps in and explicitly takes away those rights from you in regards to your own property. Specifically, the U.S. law (which will have to serve as example again) lists six specific actions that people may not take on their own property, but that are reserved for the holder of the copyright monopoly.


    So this is wrong?

    Also, what ‘laws’ were people championing when it suited them?

    #155 2 years ago
  156. DSB

    @160 That’s true in some countries. I just realized that Danish distributors have an even more hamfisted way of claiming “ownership” over DVDs.

    It actually says on the cover: “This DVD belongs to Sandrew Metronome [distributor] and may only be sold to private individuals by an Assocation of Danish Videogram Distributors approved dealer”.

    You do own books, and you do own a DVD in countries like the UK. But it would obviously violate the copyright to copy either for distribution.

    #156 2 years ago
  157. monkeygourmet

    Thanks DSB.

    This whole fiasco is about as clear as mud. ;)

    You can see why MS are having a hard time trying to explain this to people. Also, has anyone ever been convicted for ‘lending’ or playing a game in public?

    If these ‘laws’ are never enforced, of course people will see MS policy change with X1 as ‘new’. If you can’t defiantly promise an outcome, people don’t feel the need to trust a ‘law’.

    All you get are potentially people being made ‘examples of’, and in the case of hiring, lending or public displays of 360 games, I don’t think a conviction has ever happened…

    #157 2 years ago
  158. ps3fanboy

    Joe Musashi = microsoft contractor


    #158 2 years ago
  159. DSB

    @162 It’s exactly that complicated. No one either in the EU or the US wants to sit down and make clear rules on the matter (because either the public will hate them, or the lobbies will wage war on them) so it’s largely up to the courts to decide what’s what based on the arguments of lawyers.

    You have a publisher claiming a set of rights through license agreements and terms of service, and then you have all kinds of courts voting on whether those rights are legitimate or not.

    We all know the difference between a lower court and a higher court. Ones decision may be entirely different from the other, so you have all kinds of precedence being made, and until the lawmakers sit down and finally draw the line, that’s gonna stay the status quo.

    #159 2 years ago
  160. Ireland Michael

    @159 Yes, I do. As long as I don’t redistribute *copies* of it, I can do whatever the sweet hell I want to with it. I am also legally allowed to resell *anything* I own, whether physical or digital, and there isn’t a single ToS or EULA that can stop me, especially if taken to the high court. Businesses have an alarmingly high rate of failure in the high courts here.

    Simply stating I don’t doesn’t change the fact that I do. My laws tells me so. See, over here, not every lawyer is out to buttfuck everyone for their own financial gain, and we actually have organisations here invested in standing up for consumer’s rights. Try to fuck with consumer rights in the EU and you will have half a dozen groups breathing down your neck in a heartbeat.

    Fuck with consumer rights in the US though and its just smart business, I guess.

    #160 2 years ago
  161. zinc

    Joe’s right, its just that for years console gamers could blissfully ignore all those silly ‘terms & conditions’, as no-one ever enforced them.

    You had the disc & could sell/trade/rent or loan to your hearts content and so it became common practice, almost a right if you will.

    Now MS have decided to put a stop to such frivolity… & doesn’t that just sting?

    Odd though that its only games that are so protected. No such restrictions being placed on your blu-rays/DVDs, which have the same terms & conditions … Maybe thats next eh?

    #161 2 years ago
  162. monkeygourmet


    But if nothing was being enforced, it may aswell have not been there.

    This obviously going to be news to a lot of people.

    Also, what about @160? Is that wrong then?

    #162 2 years ago
  163. Ireland Michael

    @166 They’ll atop trying to enforce them pretty fast when their hardware goes the way of the Dreamcast and their entire entertainment division goes bust.

    Of course, that would require people to actually vote with their wallet.

    “Odd though that its only games that are so protected. No such restrictions being placed on your blu-rays/DVDs, which have the same terms & conditions … Maybe thats next eh?”

    Mainly because barely anyone is managing to make a single cent out of this industry, whereas the movie and music industries are raking in record profits. They don’t need to bother.

    #163 2 years ago
  164. zinc

    @167, I don’t know if 160 is right, I’ve never had reason to care… What console gamer has?

    @168, No, I think its more like they wouldn’t dare restrict blu-rays/DVD. That would supremely piss off everyone.

    But gamers have been primed fot years to believe this industrys failings are somehow their fault, so are more willing to drink the kool aid.

    #164 2 years ago
  165. Ireland Michael

    @169 “But gamers have been primed fot years to believe this industrys failings are somehow their fault, so are more willing to drink the kool aid.”

    Almost every single gamer I’ve met and spoken to is completely against this, and the outcries against this whole system have been unanimously supported.

    #165 2 years ago
  166. DSB

    @169 In Denmark they “do”. In the sense that you aren’t “allowed” to resell your DVDs, but that it isn’t enforced in any meaningful way.

    Corporations are dumb entities. They want control at any cost, because control equals money, and the only way you’re going to stop them is by hurting them and taking their money away when they cross the line.

    And it seems Denmark isn’t the only place.

    #166 2 years ago
  167. Jaet

    It looks like he hates his job.

    #167 2 years ago
  168. Joe Musashi

    “But if nothing was being enforced, it may aswell have not been there.”

    That’s quite possibly the most convenient and self-serving consumer logic I’ve ever witnessed. And misses the entire point completely.

    If you truly believe that then you can understand precisely why companies are going forwards with asserting enforcement. And it’s thanks to mentalities like those that have brought this action about. Actions have consequences.


    #168 2 years ago
  169. Dragon246

    You know man,you are wasting time with a person who will insult you at every damn time he is proven wrong. He has forsaken reason long ago.

    I would not agree with your reasons. In fact, I really don’t think Music and film industry and Games industry are really comparable. Here are my reasons-
    1. Games are much more costlier.
    2. Music and film industry has digital marketplaces are there mainstay, while gaming still is somewhat retail heavy.
    3. When you receive a movie or film, its FINISHED. No further alteration is necessary for that. However, games, especially online ones require constant investment from the industry. Obviously, that cost is included in the original sale, but to expect that service for free in second hand games and ,in my opinion, is simply asking for too much.

    Simply put,. I would say games are just like Computer programs.

    I have to say, I wonder how many of the “gamers” hating online passes and so on put themselves in the shoes of pubs/devs and see from that perspective. The glass is half empty, or half full. Both are right.

    #169 2 years ago
  170. CyberMarco

    So Joe, what’s you stand regarding this? DO you simply say, “well if these are the terms and conditions to use/have access to the product so be it”?

    This whole situation doesn’t bother you a bit? Are you “all-in” for not violating the sacred ToS and EULAs that corporation demand from us?

    It would be naive to say the least that all these restrictions that are implemented aren’t there for maximizing profits and having as much as possible the total control over the consumer.

    So, if a publisher holds the rights of property of a game, what stops them from busting in my house and taking by their “property”?

    #170 2 years ago
  171. Dragon246

    CM, Cant steam do EXACTLY the same thing?

    “So, if a publisher holds the rights of property of a game, what stops them from busting in my house and taking by their “property”?”
    Nope. You OWN the disk, but the content is licensed, and you are the licensee.

    #171 2 years ago
  172. KineticCalvaria


    No escapade doesn’t work,
    An act or incident involving excitement, daring, or adventure

    Crusade is correct.

    Just for kicks :-).

    #172 2 years ago
  173. CyberMarco

    @176 Yeah, the same can be said for Steam. But I know that I can always back up my games on a external device/DVD even if Steam ceases to exist. In the worst case scenario I’ll pirate the hell out of my “bought” games.

    #173 2 years ago
  174. Dragon246

    Piracy also exists on consoles, so that point is moot imo.
    I back up every digital vita game I buy on my PC, and I can use them anytime on my Vita without PSN. So that doesn’t give Steam/PC gaming any advantage.

    Serious question though, do you visit old games frequently? I move on from old consoles. My PSP is collecting dust even if I have tons of games left there to play just because I have moved on to Vita.

    #174 2 years ago
  175. monkeygourmet


    You have sidestepped quite happily there.

    Again, picking and choosing which parts to address that fit in with your stance.

    Going back to @160… Is that wrong? Alot of people DO seem to think there are gray area’s regarding this topic and seem to have covincing proof to back it up. Can you outright say whats written in @160 is complete bullshit?

    Can you give me any examples of people being convicted for playing games in ‘public’, renting games or lending them out?

    I can’t think of one.

    I wonder why that is? Do you think it’s because those actions would be thrown out of court in seconds.

    Imagine the press.

    “I was arressted and convicted for lending my brother Mario Galaxy on Wii”…

    It would be a PR disaster regardless of what the licensing ‘law’ states. Even the companies now it’s impossable to enforce in it’s current state, hence all the measures they have had to change to get it working on X1.

    What about small independant Videogame shops? My local shop which I support is going to have a pretty rocky time next gen, especially with X1 and maybe PS4.

    You think my view is ‘self-serving’, it’s quite the contrary. Shops like these are very likely going to shut down. The climate is rough as it is and a measure to stop second hand sales and trade ins could very well be the death blow.

    So yes, I stand by my statement, as Sony / Nintendo & MS themselves know the small print currently in place isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.

    #175 2 years ago
  176. monkeygourmet


    And as I said earlier, Steam at least has a fair pricing system / gifts etc…

    Best out of a bad bunch maybe?

    Assassins Creed 3 was £54.99 On Wii U ehop for example.

    #176 2 years ago
  177. CyberMarco

    @179 Nope it’s not the same. I’m not pirating my games just for the sake of it. I always buy my games. The example that I pointed would be as the last resource because as I said, I can always back up my games on PC, same thing you do with your digital PS Vita games.

    I wont be buying any game digitally for the PS3, only those that are cross-buy with the PS Vita so I can have a backup too. I always want to have physical copies of my PS3 games.

    I boot up from time to time my PS2 (even though it’s struggling to read the discs after all the things it has been through in my childhood) just to play some San Andreas or Need for Speed Most Wanted (my favorite of the series). I wouldn’t mind plugging in my NES or PS1 (if it was still alive) too, but I don’t have them where I live, they are in my parents house.

    #177 2 years ago
  178. zinc

    I always chuckle when guys point fingers at Steam. Because y’know Steam is the only digital provider on pc.

    No competition at ALL! How Valve must enjoy their monopoly!

    #178 2 years ago
  179. Bomba Luigi

    Zinc: I buy a lot Games on PC an a lot of them NOT on Steam.

    A Funny Monoploy.

    #179 2 years ago
  180. CyberMarco

    Yeah forgot to mention that too. Steam is a distribution service/platform. It’s not the only place where you can get your games.

    And the argument of “hey Steam does that, so what’s the big deal if MS/Sony follow suits” is very asinine and ignorant on an immense scale.

    Just cause a corporation uses a particular business model for its audience it’s not given that it can be used by every other company without expecting some negative reaction to say the least.

    #180 2 years ago
  181. Lengendaryboss

    Goes to sleep at midnight to find the argument escalate beyond belief :) Fine i will add my two cents technically speaking JM is right (Speaking for certain countries of course) but consumers/gamers think that when they buy a game they own it (makes sense, they can’t see as being granted a lisence), which is a clear assumption: see it as ownership. Thats the middle ground, the gamer/consumer side and legal side and i ain’t adding personal insight into this lovely argument.

    #181 2 years ago
  182. monkeygourmet


    basically, what you said.

    Technically speaking, in a lot countries, you own the License. Now, when even Lawyers can’t be bothered to follow up cases of game loaning or hiring, it kind of tells you it’s all bullshit in it’s current state.

    That is changing, and obvioulsy will empower the company more than the consumer.

    If these laws were properly enforced almost 100% of ths forum would be guilty of lending games out.

    I would like to know if @Joe has leant a game out before? If he has, he is as guilty as anyone else, or if he knew about the licensing issue, he obvioulsy thought it was bullshit and leant the game out anyway as he knew there would be no re-precutions.

    #182 2 years ago
  183. Joe Musashi

    Adding ad hominem details into this serves no purpose other than to muddy the waters further. Or, just as likely, to fling mud.

    I am not convinced in the slightest that the dissenters have anything but their own personal interests at heart. Not once have they chosen to consider any other party’s interests – dismissing them wholesale with derision using remarks as “corporate bullshit” or just “its bullshit” and the breathtakingly backwards logic of “if it’s not enforced it might not well not exist”. The levels of spin employed are truly remarkable.


    #183 2 years ago
  184. CyberMarco


    Oh man, I give up trying to follow your argument. I feel like I’m talking to a robot. You still haven’t replied on some question that I asked you…

    You just come back talking like a PR manager or something. So, because I’m not an expert in this field and the barrier language isn’t really helping me, can you please explain it to me like I’m a 5years old?


    #184 2 years ago
  185. Joe Musashi

    #166 said it quite succinctly.

    And your confusion is not from me. My message has been the same in every single comment.

    By contrast, others have sought to challenge it from a range of increasingly selfish, banal and ludicrous angles, looking to add and twist details that aren’t even relevant (other media, oil rig workers, ad hominem details, misquoting etc).


    #185 2 years ago
  186. CyberMarco


    #186 2 years ago
  187. Dragon246

    “I wont be buying any game digitally for the PS3″
    Well, I am assuming you do buy digital with PC games, so what’s the difference here?
    No need to explain that though, its your personal preference.



    In the end, it all comes down to fair use agreement. Everyone is out there for themselves. I am sure many people here think they are paragons because they are consumers voice. Nope, sorry. You are doing the same DAMN thing as the companies you accuse are doing, looking out for yourself.
    How will I take out the least amount of money from my wallet? This is it.
    Where am I standing on this, pretty simple. I buy games, I play them and then just keep them. Seems fine to me.
    Both consumers and industry have their own interests. Its better if people realise that they are the same as the industries in this regard.
    What are industries exactly btw? Just another group of people, nuff said.

    Michael said that industries fear consumers in Eu. Why is that correct? Why should they fear consumers? Rule of majority?

    Rant over.

    #187 2 years ago
  188. dreamcastnews

    Christ, who cares?

    The staff on this site must be reading and laughing over the comments thinking – what a set of babies! I honestly don’t know why Nintendo articles are posted here, it seems that a select few seem to stalk and slash various members for liking the company and their games. Some members here don’t seem to understand that others get their view be it, pro-Nintendo or anti-Nintendo or just general troll-baiting.

    PS3Fanboy is right, I think he said something about this being about Nintendo – if some of you don’t like them; don’t read it.

    I have a great respect for everything Nintendo has done, they’ve carried the torch along with Sega during the late 80′s and 90′s when gaming suffered a mighty crash and made the industry foundations where we can still enjoy playing games today. There would be no PlayStation without Nintendo (for turnabout reasons) and no Xbox without Sega (Microsoft learnt the industry through Dreamcast’s mistakes).

    #188 2 years ago
  189. CyberMarco


    “Well, I am assuming you do buy digital with PC games, so what’s the difference here?”

    I think I already answered to that in my previous post. I can always back up my digital library on my PC (which is an open platform compared to consoles).

    Also, it’s naive to believe that MS/Sony will lower the price of games on their closed platforms (XBL/PSN) where there is no competition. If so, they could have already done that to give an incentive to the consumer to opt in for digital rather than physical copies.

    “Everyone is out there for themselves. I am sure many people here think they are paragons because they are consumers voice. Nope, sorry. You are doing the same DAMN thing as the companies you accuse are doing, looking out for yourself.”

    Excuse my ignorance, but I think we are living in a f*cking capitalistic system, where the more power corporations have the more f*cked you are going to be. It’s not the same argument me and them. Unless I’m missing something. Do you know how capitalism works? It is based on the exploitation of the producing sector so it can sky-rocket its profits.

    “Where am I standing on this, pretty simple. I buy games, I play them and then just keep them.”

    Did I say something different. I’m with you on that.

    “Both consumers and industry have their own interests. Its better if people realise that they are the same as the industries in this regard.”

    Lolwhat? Yeah, my interests are to create an economical empire with no capital limit by buying my games for 50€.

    You should go and open a book or two to get an picture of how things work in this world.

    #189 2 years ago
  190. Dragon246

    That last part from “In the end” was not aimed at anyone. I spaced it but they aren’t visible for some reason.
    Edited it. Seems dots did the work.

    #190 2 years ago
  191. Joe Musashi

    @193 “Michael said that industries fear consumers in Eu. Why is that correct? ”

    It’s not correct. And it’s not incorrect. Because it’s impossible to prove.

    It’s a theatrical ploy, firstly to suggest industries are human/humanistic and secondly to imply that power lies in one area rather than another. It has no basis in reality other than to imply and intonate. Slap some choice emotive catchphrases into your opinion and it sounds all the more believable.

    Consumers DO have power. Something else I’ve always maintained. However, how they enforce their power is very limited. They can choose to buy or not to buy. That’s pretty much it – but it’s quite a potent message. Michael confidently predicts that platform holders will have no choice but to change their policies due to consumers not buying the platform.

    It is not a foregone conclusion, however. And the platform manufacturers are pushing this onto consumers because they believe they can weather this storm and still come out the other side in a good place and remain in good growth and profitable.

    There’s a reason for this confidence, in spite of all these passionate words on the internet. And that reason is because consumers have accepted this sort of thing before. Numerous times. In spite of all that complaining. Much to the chagrin of the consumers who beat their fists at the internet and demand that things MUST change before they will buy the product (there is a flaw in that argument which revolves around the fact that such people cannot actually be considered consumers of the product so their position as stakeholders doesn’t yet exist).

    The news of record-breaking pre-orders suggest that the precedent is alive and well and this, like many other policies that met with complaint on their introduction, could well become commonly accepted.

    If consumers have all that power and can truly instil such fear then, of course, the opposite will happen.


    #191 2 years ago
  192. Dragon246

    While I think you changed your tone thinking that I insulted you (now it should be clear, that wasnt intended at anyone, sorry for the misunderstanding). Let respond to what you said.
    For the record, I dont live in a capitalist country, we have a mix here.
    Anything practised in excess is wrong. I am not really in favour of western economics exactly, but to say capitalism is completely wrong is , well, very wrong. Same thing can be said about socialism.

    I think you realise that those “astronomical” profits (very few companies have astronomical ones) are also shared between an equally astronomical number of people. Companies aren’t really a singular entity, that is symbolism. They are just a group of people, like people here.
    What I am pointing out is that its not as black and white as some people here making it out to be. Game costs are rising. Inflation is there. Everything is increasing in costs (at least here).

    In the end, no amount of shouting in forums will do shit in real life. Only thing that speaks in these matters is money. Dont buy stuff, and eventually you will win. Support it and it will stay like that forever.
    Gaming is not an essential commodity, so it should be easy to do that I guess.

    I never said consumers don’t have power and rights too. But as you said, the best you can do on these things is buying them or not.
    However there are more options depending on where you live. People in Eu and some others countries probably have more liberties in this regard than US ones.
    I doubt there is anything right or wrong here.
    We will have a simple example in a few months. Many of us here (including me) are not happy with X1 online policy (I don’t care about second hand thing). If we are in majority and it affects X1 sales, MS WILL LISTEN. If we aren’t, nothing will change. Simple as that.

    #192 2 years ago
  193. CyberMarco


    Sorry, probably I was being a little rush.

    In the capitalist system that most of the world is using it doesn’t matter if the profits are distributed to a large or small group of people. It all boils down to exploitation of the labor.

    I’ll give an example. Apple is one of the biggest, multinational corporations in the world and they can have so big revenues because they are exploiting the Chinese and Asian workforce. If you take a look at how many workers are committing mass suicides in Foxconn (one of the biggest electronics factory in Asia) you’ll understand under what condition people is forced to work, which is due to corrupt governments and so on. Same thing for the clothing industry and so forth.

    Obviously, in the gaming industry we don’t have such examples of inhuman comportment but still it’s based on exploitation.

    I know bitching and moaning for a pass time is really ludicrous, and debating on the net wont change a thing. I’m just pointing out that people should just wake up and realize how humanity is manipulated by the minority.

    I have a question though to ask you, in your country what constitution do you have?

    #193 2 years ago
  194. Lengendaryboss

    Comes back three hours later to see it still going on :) Sigh.

    #194 2 years ago
  195. CyberMarco


    Yeah, it would be more suitable if we had taken this conversation in the forums.

    #195 2 years ago
  196. polygem

    #194 +1

    #196 2 years ago

Comments are now closed on this article.

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