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Xbox One: pre-owned activation to cost £35 – report

Friday, 24th May 2013 10:42 GMT By Dave Cook

Xbox One has already caused a deal of confusion surrounding the use of pre-owned games, and on top of having to pay a fee to play used games, it seems that Microsoft and publishers will get a cut of each used sale at retail too.

MCV has been told by retail sources that Microsoft has explained the pre-owned issue to stockists, and that while retailers will be free to price used games as they see fit, both Microsoft and the game’s publisher must receive a cut of the sale.

The site then explained a potential scenario, where retailers must have agreed to Microsoft’s terms & conditions to sell pre-owned Xbox One games, and it must also have installed Microsoft’s Azure pre-owned framework into their own system.

Once an Xbox One game is traded in at the store, it is logged with Microsoft, and the person trading in will then see the game wiped from their Xbox Live account.

ConsoleDeals has suggested that retailers may get around 10% from each Xbox One pre-owned sale, which is a huge cut from the current-gen, and that activation of pre-owned Xbox One games on your console may cost around £35 – a price which is not in addition to the cost of the used game. It’s the full price, period, according to MCV.

An official Microsoft statement to MCV on the matter reads, “We know there is some confusion around used games on Xbox One and wanted to provide a bit of clarification on exactly what we’ve confirmed.

“While there have been many potential scenarios discussed, we have only confirmed that we designed Xbox One to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail. Beyond that, we have not confirmed any specific scenarios.

“Another piece of clarification around playing games at a friend’s house – should you choose to play your game at your friend’s house, there is no fee to play that game while you are signed in to your profile.”

Major Nelson provided a statement on the matter as well: “The ability to trade in and resell games is important to gamers and to Xbox. Xbox One is designed to support the trade in and resale of games.

“Reports about our policies for trade in and resale are inaccurate and incomplete. We will disclose more information in the near future.”

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220 Comments

  1. matirishhh

    VHS BOX – fails from the very start…PS4 will rule the Galaxy!

    #1 2 years ago
  2. MidlifeAxe

    Holy shit.

    #2 2 years ago
  3. TrickyAudio

    Fucking hell.

    #3 2 years ago
  4. Edo

    LOL.

    #4 2 years ago
  5. Lengendaryboss

    HOLY CRAP BATMAN, holy moly, Holy mother of god, god help us, Please Sir i don’t want no more, sssshhhiittt, fuck, hell no or no you didn’t :D
    I can’t help think MS is causing all this bad publicity for Xbone, E3 better be goddamn amazing or people will pick PS4 or as the last option a Wii U.

    #5 2 years ago
  6. Droid

    Ouch. That’s quite a chunk of change! If true.

    #6 2 years ago
  7. Lloytron

    Sorry, what? 35 quid for used? I won’t pay that even for a new game.

    Nice to know I can play games at a friends if I’m signed in at their house. But I can’t lend it to them….

    #7 2 years ago
  8. Malmer

    I dunno. This sounds reasonable. Devs get their cut of used game sales and the princing sounds ok. Anyways, it is often cheaper to buy them new online (atleast here in sweden).

    as for @1. The probability that Sony will have something similar is extremely high.

    #8 2 years ago
  9. Thebeakers

    there’s no way that can be right!!

    #9 2 years ago
  10. Puggy

    So in other words, all games you purchase will be linked to your account in some way? And if you lose it, you lose the ability to play all your games too?

    And what about Sony? such an authentification System most likely is deep seated in the code, and they won’t rescript games that appear on both systems. At least I don’t think they would… Was there any word from Sony so far, how they will handle used games?

    Beside 35 Pounds? I can get new games cheaper on amazon.co.uk at times O.o

    #10 2 years ago
  11. mkotechno

    Failbox Juan.

    #11 2 years ago
  12. Kieran

    what if a game is a couple of years old ? thank god i put my money towards a ps4 !!! microsoft use really are a shower of wankers

    #12 2 years ago
  13. paulvfinch

    Do you get a reach-around with this?

    #13 2 years ago
  14. Samoan Spider

    @13 Well I was just going to say that sound was the collective pants of gamers everywhere being yanked down.

    I like to get wined and dined before I get FUCKED!

    #14 2 years ago
  15. zinc

    Lol, peeps are going to be VERY choosy about the games they buy I think.

    This will not help devs sell games.

    #15 2 years ago
  16. Hunam

    This is probably the most agressive anti-consumer behaviour I have ever seen.

    What next? Charging if there are too many people watching a film in the room? OH WAIT!

    #16 2 years ago
  17. ps3fanboy

    no wine and dine here.. micro$haft have no foreplay, they just push it in unlubricated with force and treat you all as a crackwhore….

    #17 2 years ago
  18. orakaa

    Holy sh*t… I sincerely hope Sony is not going to do the same thing: if it’s the case, I will STOP buying consoles.

    If not, then the PS4 will be mine

    #18 2 years ago
  19. DiodeX

    So, do they get a cut of the point of sale and then charge you to activate on the Bone?
    £10 activation fee is just about the limit I’d want to pay, but upto £70 for a used game when they will mostly likely be £40-50 new! IT MAKES NO SENSE!!

    #19 2 years ago
  20. pukem0n

    if true, then fuck you Microsoft…

    even them cant be THAT greedy

    #20 2 years ago
  21. Samoan Spider

    @17 You’re not wrong. I sure hope to christ Sony have thought about and dismissed this idea because this will bother me massively!

    #21 2 years ago
  22. MFBB

    #10 not clear yet what Sony will do.

    Used games will be allowed they said, but if they have something cruel like Microsoft…we have to wait and see.

    I dont even pay 35£ for new games.

    #22 2 years ago
  23. foofly

    @1 & @8 Yea, I can see Sony announcing something similar too. Although the fact that publishers want a cut of second hand is nothing but arrogance. I don’t have to pay the sofa manufacturer if I buy a sofa off Fred my next door neighbour.

    #23 2 years ago
  24. Beta

    £35?! Blatant greed.

    #24 2 years ago
  25. Dragon246

    While all this matters not even an iota to me, I am interested in what Sony does.

    #25 2 years ago
  26. SplatteredHouse

    This is horrible. It would be great if the stores held their ground and opted out, but since their profit is increasingly tied to used, MS doesn’t leave them much room/chance to retain control. Again. Horrible. :(

    #26 2 years ago
  27. TheBlackHole

    A) Users complain that Xbox One (a glorified PC)
    - registers product licenses
    - won’t let you lend games to friends
    - negates 2nd hand sales

    Said users then proceed to harp on about how much better PC gaming is, and how they support developers, by…

    - wanting to buy 2nd hand and cutting the developer out
    - Playing on PC, where you have to register product licenses and where you can’t lend games to friends.

    Can you smell the hypocrisy?

    #27 2 years ago
  28. ps3fanboy

    Xbox (D)one…. ENUFF SAID!

    #28 2 years ago
  29. zinc

    But… This is still very much rumour & speculation, so let’s not get to depressed, yeah :-)

    Save the rage for E3, that’s when MS will really stick it in you :-P

    Maybe…

    #29 2 years ago
  30. mistermogul

    If that’s true they really have shot themselves in the foot…

    #30 2 years ago
  31. Samoan Spider

    @27 But the difference is I don’t mind paying £20 for a brand new game that I can’t lend, but I’ll be pissed off being forced to pay £35 minimum for older games. I’d even pay a reasonable price for brand new games, but no one wants to be taken for a ride. Take Tomb Raider for example: I bought it 4 weeks ago at £12 on PC. I can’t lend it or trade it, do I care? Not one bit. And all that money goes to the dev’s (bar the steam cut which is substantially smaller than the MS or Sony cut)

    #31 2 years ago
  32. sh4dow

    Ahahaha.

    #32 2 years ago
  33. orakaa

    @ 27: why do you put people who are annoyed by this measure in the same bag as PC elitists?
    I rarely play on PC (I must have, in total, less than 5 games on it) and I’m essentially a console user. And I’m totally p*ssed off by Microsoft behavior.

    #33 2 years ago
  34. Lewis247

    I honestly think the system is going to flop. Why? Think of the amount of people across the world not using HDMI. Think of the amount of people that buy pre-owned when they can’t afford full priced games.

    Also I love being able to walk into a shop and buy games on the cheap from years back that I either couldn’t afford at the time or completely missed when it was first released.

    Not with this! I’m seriously considering just sticking with the 360 and buying all the games I’ve missed out on to take me through this entire generation unless policies change.

    #34 2 years ago
  35. SplatteredHouse

    @27 Don’t let the facts get in your way.
    Remember that on PC, it is often the content creators that set prices, and those prices tend to be across a wider spectrum than you tend to find on console. It is a pretty COMPETITIVE environment. What Microsoft are showing is that they are looking forward to holding a captive audience of media consumers. If everything goes through them, alone.

    #35 2 years ago
  36. TheBlackHole

    @31

    So don’t buy them if they’re too expensive? Vote with your wallet.

    #36 2 years ago
  37. Digital Bamboo

    This can’t be true. 50+ dollars to activate a used game? That doesn’t even include the purchase price. This would end up costing more than a new game. Personally, I don’t pay that much for a game more than twice a year.

    #37 2 years ago
  38. KrazyKraut

    35??geeeeez

    #38 2 years ago
  39. Samoan Spider

    @36 I entirely agree. I vote with my wallet by buying on PC via whatever site suits me. But the nice thing about my PS3 and 360 gaming was that should I want to take a flier on a game that didn’t get good scores, or maybe isn’t my usual style, I’d happily pay to get it 2nd hand (the dev already got paid and I wouldn’t have bought it otherwise) so yeah my motives are purely selfish, but this just pisses me off because I REALLY wanted to like both next gen systems and this is sadly a tick in the wrong box :(

    #39 2 years ago
  40. polygem

    …this is just a crime. i hope sony wont do the same…

    i keep a lot of my nintendo games btw while i trade in many games for ps3 and 360 after i played them. would actually like to see some numbers about that because i believe it´s not only me. it is because many nintendo games have a high replay value and they age well too…maybe the quality and long term value of games should be more of a concern than just blocking used games you greedy fucks.

    right now i really cannot believe what i hear about microsofts take on gaming…seriously, if only half of this will become a reality i wont ever even buy a microsoft branded pc mouse again.

    #40 2 years ago
  41. TheBlackHole

    @35

    “Remember that on PC, it is often the content creators that set prices”

    You mean publishers, like on console. There are budget and premium titles, not to mention XBLA. Also, FYI – Steam advise on price just as much as MS.

    “and those prices tend to be across a wider spectrum than you tend to find on console.”

    Which only really happened when PC games went predominantly digital. Who is to say this trend won’t occur on console too?

    “What Microsoft are showing is that they are looking forward to holding a captive audience of media consumers. If everything goes through them, alone.”

    A bit like Steam are with PC gaming then? Big Picture, Steam Box, Steam for Windows, Steam for Linux, Steam on Mobile… All purchases giving money to Steam. No resell, no refunds, no lending…

    #41 2 years ago
  42. SplatteredHouse

    @34 yeah, you could find some astonishing forgotten gems in those pre-owned baskets at times, which otherwise would have cost an absurd amount if you could even find them on auction sites.

    @42: PC=/=Steam. Here, take a straw hat. I did not mean publishers, but content creators – you know, someone who makes a game, then people hear about it, and buy either direct from them/their site, or alternatively, an online retailer.

    So, in that way, the sole remotely reasonable part of this idea of Microsoft’s is that a percentage of the costs returns…No, wait. To the retailer?!? There’s no mention that they have then signed to ensure their “cut” is further split back to the developer. Ok. That’s double-standards!

    #42 2 years ago
  43. Samoan Spider

    @42 It remains to be seen what digital offerings both companies offer, but that I think will be the redeeming factor should they manage it effectively.

    #43 2 years ago
  44. Hirmetrium

    Utterly destroys the preowned games market. No more Ebay. No “off the record” trading. Nothing. Horrible.

    #44 2 years ago
  45. TheBlackHole

    @43

    Okay, that’s fine. In that sense, PC has an advantage (without knowing what strategy MS or Sony have for Devs yet). But a decent PC costs good money, and doesn’t necessarily function as living room entertainment.

    All things equal, I’d still go for a console over a PC, purely because of the simplicity. Each to their own though.

    #45 2 years ago
  46. Malmer

    Probablity sony will do the same thing: My guess is 95%.

    So go ahead. Leave consoles. But to where? Steam is worse. You can’t event rade games there at all. Everything “horrible” they say the One will do, Steam has been doing for almost 10 years. And it is a success.

    So you could leave consoles and go completely indie.

    #46 2 years ago
  47. TheBlackHole

    @45

    Another thing… During the NEXT generation, when EVERYTHING goes digital, there will be NO pre-owned market at all.

    This was always going to be the transitional generation. I’m amazed none of you saw this coming.

    Wait for Sony to announce an almost identical feature btw. Their silence isn’t for Microsoft’s benefit.

    #47 2 years ago
  48. SplatteredHouse

    @47: To your conclusion. The market usually finds a way.

    #48 2 years ago
  49. TheBlackHole

    @49

    I think indie has an incredibly important future, whether that’s on PC or telly boxes I’ve no idea. I don’t think that’s reason to condemn Microsoft for following Valve’s lead ten years after they started it though.

    If anything, we’ve all had it far too good for best part of a decade.

    #49 2 years ago
  50. CyberMarco

    @42 “Who is to say this trend won’t occur on console too?”

    Are you sure that you’ll get the same deals/offers from Sony/Microsoft on their “closed distribution digital service” compared to the one found on the PC market? As mentioned above PC=/=Steam. You can still get your games from Amazon, GoG, GMG, GAME and dozens of other online stores…

    #50 2 years ago
  51. TheBlackHole

    @51

    No, I’m not. But I do know that if people stop buying games then prices will have to become more competitive. That’s how the market works.

    Ultimately, consumers decide what they are prepared to pay. They judge relative value.

    #51 2 years ago
  52. ps3fanboy

    @48 when EVERYTHING goes digital, i am outta this gaming hobby… i have no interest in it any longer.

    #52 2 years ago
  53. NiceFellow

    Whelp I think my minds made up. No XBone for me and I hope to see weak enough reaction and sales for the console to force Sony to take the opposite approach to the market.

    I enjoyed my 360 for the most part but MS direction is not for me nor one I feel works best for the consumer so I’m not supporting it.

    #53 2 years ago
  54. TheBlackHole

    “force Sony to take the opposite approach to the market.”

    Nope, sorry.

    EA dropped their online pass system because they knew the new gen consoles were employing this feature. Sony will announce their plans soon enough.

    #54 2 years ago
  55. abdooltk

    Fuck Microsoft what hill they think like that?
    some say the new game will cost around 70 $ and as we now the development on next gen is not very expansive like this gen,now they want more from the consumer like more fees almost like a full price for used games.If I buy the xbox one which am not buy with this stupid fees i need second work or work with better salary and less tax.I give up FUCK MICROSOFT FUCK EA FUCK CALL OF DUTY IT IS A RIP OFF

    #55 2 years ago
  56. orakaa

    @ 50: Microsoft is NOT following Valve, and god damnit, stop thinking Valve is the ONLY gaming solution on PC!

    There are other alternative as well. It’s also the competition on PC that forces Valve (amongst other online retailers) to remain competitive.

    #56 2 years ago
  57. TheBlackHole

    @57

    Valve owns well over 80% of the PC gaming retail market. Also, notice that most other online gaming retailers are selling Steam codes, meaning that Valve pocket 20-30% of the revenue from other retailer’s sales as well as their own, and gain a new user in the process. Ka’ching!

    Sure, there are alternatives, but then the same applies with consoles. There’s a PS4 and a WiiU, right?

    #57 2 years ago
  58. TheBlackHole

    @57

    Steam =

    - Own retail store
    - Online game verification
    - No trade ins
    - no lending games to friends
    - Games locked to an account

    I’m pretty sure this is the route MS are taking.

    #58 2 years ago
  59. freddyonestar

    “it seems that Microsoft and publishers will get a cut of each used sale at retail too”

    They’re getting fuck all

    #59 2 years ago
  60. Kabby

    How do they ‘remove’ said game from your account?

    Either you have to give them your log on details at point of sale, which is unlikely, or each disc is unique.

    If each disc IS unique, how is this done?

    #60 2 years ago
  61. actuallyisnotafox

    if 50% of people in the world buy your console theres only 50% left to buy it. so i just wanna know how many people have bought another 360 (probably due to failure of the first, js)

    #61 2 years ago
  62. G1GAHURTZ

    What a bunch of drama queens…

    #62 2 years ago
  63. Templar_Dante

    @Kabby, YOU MUST have an internet connection to use Xbox One. It checks your console out every 24hrs with their servers, updating licenses that you have or have lost.
    So, you buy said 2nd hand game.
    On the shop server, it reports the sale to MSFT.

    you get home. Put the game in the Xbox One.
    It then installs, checks their server. Detects its 2nd hand.
    You then pay a fee (35£)
    It then authenticates your gamertag as being the owner.

    Ruthless…

    You will pay maybe 25£ for the 2nd hand game at the store.
    Then 35£ when you get home and install it.

    NO INTERNET, you console wont even let you install it in the 1st place.

    #63 2 years ago
  64. Templar_Dante

    If I didnt see it, I would never believe it!
    Third Console Curse unfolding before us!

    #64 2 years ago
  65. G1GAHURTZ

    “@Kabby, YOU MUST have an internet connection to use Xbox One. It checks your console out every 24hrs with their servers, updating licenses that you have or have lost.”

    There’s absolutely no proof for a single word of that. MS haven’t confirmed anything of the sort.

    #65 2 years ago
  66. Logion

    And retailers like Gamestop are fine with that?

    #66 2 years ago
  67. ps3fanboy

    @66

    ITS BEEN CONFIRMED, HAVE YOU BEEN LIVING UNDER A ROCK THE LAST DAYS?

    #67 2 years ago
  68. OwningXylophone

    @64

    “You will pay maybe 25£ for the 2nd hand game at the store.
    Then 35£ when you get home and install it.”

    Read the source article:-

    “Many readers are asking whether the £35 will be additional cost on top of the price of buying the game. No, we believe that the £35 figure – which is not our number, incidentally – would cover the entire transaction. If correct this would leave retail with a cut per sale of around £3.50.”

    #68 2 years ago
  69. Templar_Dante

    @ G1GAHURTZ

    So, its magic? Wow. Secret Sauce + Cloud 300 000 Jiggawatz = Magic?

    So, G1GA. Lets be realistic,
    They confirmed a NEED for an internet connection.
    Then theres the article up above.

    I bet, if this were the days running up to World War 2, you wouldve waited for Hitler to storm into every territory worldwide before labelling him a bad man.

    This is MSFTs intention. And its ALWAYS been.

    #69 2 years ago
  70. Templar_Dante

    @LOGION

    Retailers would rather get crumbs than eat out the trash can.
    so, yes.

    #70 2 years ago
  71. Kabby

    Not sure you understand what I was saying buddy. In order to trade in a game you would either have to tell MS you’ve sold the game (key in your details) OR each disc has a unique identifier and the store does it.

    My question was which is it going to be?

    #71 2 years ago
  72. Templar_Dante

    My amounts may be wrong, but Im basing it off EA saying next gen games will start being 10£ pricier.

    #72 2 years ago
  73. Templar_Dante

    @KABBY.

    Each disc will have a unique identification number, ofcourse, Like pc games.

    You dont have to tell MSFT anything, the store you trade it to will do that.

    Then, next time your Xbone gets online, MSFT will remove your ownership off the disc and its license deleted off your tag.

    #73 2 years ago
  74. G1GAHURTZ

    @70:

    Links…?

    I don’t care what your assumptions are. You’re just jumping to conclusions that could be right or wrong, but to outright claim them to be fact is basically lying.

    If MS didn’t confirm it, and you have no proof, it’s not a fact.

    End of story.

    #74 2 years ago
  75. CyberMarco

    @75 – http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-does-require-internet-connection-cant-play-o-509164109

    “No, it does not have to be always connected, but Xbox One does require a connection to the Internet.”

    According to Microsoft vice president Phil Harrison.

    #75 2 years ago
  76. orakaa

    @ 58: how about your links saying Steam sales represent 80% of total PC sales? How can you know it when the figures are not even released for all online providers???
    http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5406

    If you could “add” to the discussion instead of just trolling, it would be great…

    #76 2 years ago
  77. G1GAHURTZ

    @76:

    I was specifically referring to his “24 hours” quote, which Harrison originally said, but was then flatly denied as being confirmed by MS.

    The thing clearly ‘needs’ the net, but that doesn’t mean that “it doesn’t work” without it.

    No confirmation or facts from anyone here. Just guesswork based on Internet speculation.

    #77 2 years ago
  78. Wen3

    Damn at this rate the gaming industry won’t exist anymore ……….Microsoft must die…….that would be a cool playstation exclusive

    #78 2 years ago
  79. G1GAHURTZ

    @77:

    I think you’ve got the wrong guy…

    #79 2 years ago
  80. Kabby

    PC discs don’t have unique ID’s on the disc. They have a code on a bit of paper.

    #80 2 years ago
  81. orakaa

    @80: my bad. I corrected it

    #81 2 years ago
  82. CyberMarco

    @G1GA – Any link on the update?

    #82 2 years ago
  83. Bomba Luigi

    What when I want give someone one of my Games for free? Because, you know, there are People out there who are just nice.

    #83 2 years ago
  84. eXite85

    hmmm so now it makes sense why EA no longer uses “Online-Pass” and why they now have this special relationship with Microsoft and not with Sony!

    At the XBox Done event they’ve presented it to us, as an advantage of Xbox over PS4 or other systems.
    ” BUY OUR CONSOLE AND YOU GET ALL THE BENEFITS mumble…but we rip you off…. mumble”

    The consumer ( we) are blinded and tricked by these companies. it’s disgusting. I’m glad Yoshida of Sony said this:

    Speaking about consumers’ expectations when they purchase a physical disc, Yoshida said that people “purchase physical form, they want to use it everywhere, right? So that’s my expectation.”

    #84 2 years ago
  85. POOP CRUSTY

    Sorry, as an xbox supporter since I first got it I’m done. it’s too much…wayyyyyy too much! Thing after thing. They expect us to buy this and roll with it. Do they think we’re stupid?

    #85 2 years ago
  86. G1GAHURTZ

    @83:

    http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4353538/xbox-one-perform-recurring-online-checks-even-for-offline-play

    #86 2 years ago
  87. RandomTiger

    Dave, Pat, guys, can you start leaning on Sony for their position on used?
    They have been very careful with their wording.

    #87 2 years ago
  88. silkvg247

    There’s nothing in my entire possession I can’t sell on if I want to. Apart from Xbox One games.

    MS are certainly quite deluded.. this is going to be an epic flop.

    #88 2 years ago
  89. SplatteredHouse

    @84 you literally could not give them a game for free. You’d only be able to give them the disc (based on current info) which would prompt them to pay before it could be played outside of your profile.

    @88 good call.

    #89 2 years ago
  90. Samoan Spider

    @85 That quote you used got misinterpreted. Just to clarify, MS are proposing a system where you can use your game anywhere right? You have to sign in, then you can use it. What Sony haven’t clarified is, can the person you sell your game to use it anywhere *for free*. Don’t for one second think this is clear cut. It isn’t and this could be bad.

    @88 They certainly have and that’s what has me worried this isn’t confined to MS

    #90 2 years ago
  91. merrc

    This is Sony’s time to capitlize! I jumped ship for PS4 Have you?

    #91 2 years ago
  92. stretch215

    So, MCV was told by “retail sources”, who were told by stockists, who were (supposedly) told by Msoft. News? I think more along the lines of click generating nonsense. And throwing the word “report” in there as if any of this has actually been confirmed is adding insult to injury. I think I’ll do what any reasonable, sane person would do. Wait for confirmation, ACTUAL confirmation from Msoft before i post passionate protests. Also #85 “xbox done” made me laugh. I haven’t heard that one yet. :D

    #92 2 years ago
  93. Lewis247

    The Xbox One is being dragged through the mud. I hope they don’t recover from this and that enough people get brainwashed into thinking this is an acceptable practice.

    #93 2 years ago
  94. G1GAHURTZ

    @93:

    +1

    #94 2 years ago
  95. TheBlackHole

    @89

    Even Steam games? Would LOVE to know how you do that.

    “MS are certainly quite deluded.. this is going to be an epic flop.”

    Like Valve were when the locked games to accounts and didn’t allow for trades or second hand sales.

    Those 50 million+ users sure hate that kind of thing.

    Also, Sony are following suit. Don’t expect this to me an MS only thing.

    #95 2 years ago
  96. TheBlackHole

    “I hope they don’t recover from this and that enough people get brainwashed into thinking this is an acceptable practice.”

    THIS IS NOT A NEW THING!!

    And you have the audacity to talk about other people being brainwashed.

    Will this argument still persist when you can’t buy games in a box any more? That day isn’t as far away as you think.

    #96 2 years ago
  97. Bomba Luigi

    The Thing is, Steam is cheap as hell. When I pay 2€ for a Game like Mirrors Edge I don’t care that I can’t resell it. I doubt MS will have Prices like that.

    #97 2 years ago
  98. ps3fanboy

    the xbonetanic is sinking…

    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m12as5gGKr1qiv3sto1_500.gif

    while the wii-uboat is rising to the surface as a phoenix!

    #98 2 years ago
  99. TheBlackHole

    “I doubt MS will have Prices like that.”

    Again, that all depends on how well games sell.

    Consumers define pricing by choosing to (or not to) spend money on something. If enough people consider the price to be acceptable, then that’s the market rate and it becomes the norm.

    They can’t just charge arbitrarily high prices and hope it will continue to sell. There will always be an optimum price point that is considered acceptable by most people.

    #99 2 years ago
  100. Samoan Spider

    @99 Are you sure you aren’t taking these ship metaphors too far?

    @100 Continuing with the theme, it will be sink or swim and hopefully the market will stabilise at a sensible level. This whole console thing with digital pricing cannot continue – £49.99 to download it, or £34.99 in store. That isn’t right or fair and I think that lack of faith is in part due to this stupid pricing so far. But maybe you’re right and it’ll settle into a more Steam like approach. So long as it isn’t an Origin style approach I’ll be happy.

    #100 2 years ago
  101. Lengendaryboss

    @Somoan
    Just about to say that, he must be a fan of the movie.

    #101 2 years ago
  102. orakaa

    It will probably NOT go the Steam way regarding pricing.

    Microsoft and Sony have already started to sell some games on their digital store. At the exception of PS+ subscriptions (with their free games, etc.) the digital prices have remained WAY above the market prices. They could have made digital sales appealing and lower some prices, especially after a few months, for “older” games.

    As an example, I managed to buy Dead Space 2 for 15 dollars, collector edition, on Amazon, on PS3 almost a year after its release, when it was still around 40 dollars on PSN if I’m correct. Editors don’t want to lower their prices/margins, they want to increase them.

    If you honestly think they are going to lower the prices if they go all digital, you are likely to be disappointed as it’s going to be the EXACT opposite: there will not be any concurrence from other retailers and they will decide if the prices are lowered, or on the contrary, if they are going to be raised.

    #102 2 years ago
  103. tmac2011

    LOL now thats hillarious, xbox one is immenite for system failure. i had high hopes but now, i dont even want it im sticking to sony like glue

    #103 2 years ago
  104. ps3fanboy

    The XBone will flop Hard, that is for sure. You must be brain dead to support this shit, there is no excuses left to own a XBone.

    #104 2 years ago
  105. hitnrun

    The successes of the 360 in the first half of its lifetime got me back into consoles, but I was already planning not to get the 720 just because I’m sick of the slow degradation of the (mandatory) interface into a labyrinthine mess designed to maximize ad revenue, Microsoft’s obvious regret over not making the Wii and their desire to chase that rainbow, plus their “no sales or price reductions, ever” policy on digital content and XBLA titles. I’m tired of feeling a hand on my wallet every time I turn on my machine.

    All the rumors and revelations of the last few months have made MS’s prospects of getting my money even more bleak. The last few days qualify as bona fide boycott fodder.

    Just remember that whatever position they backtrack to is just temporary. They obviously intend to implement what we consider the worst-case scenario eventually, and the functionality for them to do that will be built into the machine.

    #105 2 years ago
  106. G1GAHURTZ

    They obviously intend to implement what we consider the worst-case scenario eventually, and the functionality for them to do that will be built into the machine.

    Yeah, obviously…

    Because you read some unconfirmed rumours on the internet…

    They must | all | be | true, right?

    #106 2 years ago
  107. TheBlackHole

    @107 +1

    #107 2 years ago
  108. Fin

    What’s the difference between this and Steam/Steamworks btw. I forget.

    Apart from not being able to resell games.

    #108 2 years ago
  109. Samoan Spider

    @109 Cost

    #109 2 years ago
  110. xAKUM3TSUx

    Well….now I’m confused once again. I’ll just wait for my “ultra-confirmed” info…until then I’ll refrain from reading anything that says “reports”. Seriously I hoped this would be clear by now but I guess another day, another rumour.

    #110 2 years ago
  111. Lengendaryboss

    ^Guys a Eurogamer update says that Retailers have to pay the activation fee and we only pay what the retailer charges us. I can see how that would benefits gamers and publishers, not for retailers though.

    #111 2 years ago
  112. Lloytron

    I don’t often trade games in myself, and I do like the fact that you wont need to put disks in to switch games. It looks like they’ve done a lot right but this is just wrong wrong wrong.

    You can’t lend games to people! That just plain sucks.

    After seeing the reveal I was happy to preorder. With no BC and this blatant disrespect to customers, I’m going to wait to see what Sony have to say. I bet they are laughing their asses off after this mess.

    #112 2 years ago
  113. zinc

    @113, Or desperately scrapping their own similar plans, or thinking of how to put a positive spin on it.

    #113 2 years ago
  114. Mjorh

    MS is desperatly lookin 4 more money,they wanna get money from every possible n imaginable angle…
    Wonderin what da hell they’re thinkin , they gotta contemplate first n not make such an impulsive decisions !

    #114 2 years ago
  115. fearmonkey

    @47 – “So go ahead. Leave consoles. But to where? Steam is worse. You can’t event rade games there at all. Everything “horrible” they say the One will do, Steam has been doing for almost 10 years. And it is a success”

    Uh no…Steam has one thing that makes it much different and thats the Sales…. MS never has sales anywhere near the deals that Steam does. I bought Alan Wake on PC Collectors edition that came with the arcade gae as well for less than $10. I bought Fallout 3 with all DLC for $4.99, Fallout:NV for $750 with all DLC, Sleeping dogs for $10, Saint’s row:The third for under $10, an entire package of games for less than $7. There is NOTHING like that on console. Yes I cannot trade the games, but at that price who cares. Console games are always much more expensive, and MS is a money grubbing bunch, so good luck with their sales.

    #115 2 years ago
  116. G1GAHURTZ

    Update: You, the shopper, won’t have to pay the activation fee for a used Xbox One game – the shop will. Therefore, the price you see on a second-hand Xbox One game in a shop is the price you’ll pay to be able to play it.

    That’s what a high-ranking UK industry source explained to me this afternoon.

    The reason there’s all this confusion is because Microsoft hasn’t decided what the activation fee will be yet. The £35 figure reported in the story below sounds too high – perhaps it includes the shop’s sale price as well.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-05-24-this-is-how-xbox-one-game-trade-ins-will-work-apparently

    Oh dear…

    Looks like some retailers getting upset about losing profits from second hand sales and trying to spread nonsense to get a bunch of internet drama queens all worked up.

    #116 2 years ago
  117. Fin

    @110

    Oh ok, so if MS came out and said all new games would start at £30 instead of £40, people would be ok with not being able to trade them in?

    #117 2 years ago
  118. ps4fanboy

    Btw Shuhei Yoshida did confirm that PS4 will allow game discs on multiple units with just the disc and without any fee

    #118 2 years ago
  119. Samoan Spider

    @119 So do MS, so long as you sign in. You can use your disc in multiple units anywhere in the world. So long as you sign in. Sony haven’t confirmed *that* much info so the jury is still out.

    @118 Well that is up for debate. £30 is far more reasonable but by Steam logic, you’d have to consider that some titles 6 months old or older for example get flash sales of prices £3-£20 so will the consoles match this? I doubt it, but I have hope none-the-less. I just think as a PC gamer I made my peace with digital offerings and lack of trading years ago. I’ve been on Steam 9 years in a 4 months time. Combine the higher cost of ownership of console games vs those same gamers not having experienced a digital revolution and you have what we see here.

    #119 2 years ago
  120. Bill_E_Talent

    @119 Link??

    #120 2 years ago
  121. DarkElfa

    So Microsoft actually, properly have lost their minds this time. I mean you can smell crazy on these guys with shit like this.

    A year ago I was leaning heavily towards buying an Xbox this gen, but now if I saw some MS execs walking up my driveway with a new one of these to give me, I’m not sure I wouldn’t let my dog lose on them.

    #121 2 years ago
  122. redwood

    @119 am not so hopeful, ms+EA means waay too much muscle for sony to counter even they do want to be the good-guy. Eventually they will have to cave in to publisher’s “needs”.
    to be honest the next gen is starting to look a bit not-hot right now . on one hand you have the iOS pool fill with games 90% which are crap, and than you just have the rehashed AAAs on the consoles/pcs :( and on top of that you have the IAPs and than this used game stuff too. to me indies on steam (and hopefull PSN) is the where all the goodies are…

    #122 2 years ago
  123. DarkElfa

    Bah, if way more people buy Sony, EA will leave MS in a heartbeat. If EA has proven anything, they’ll go where ever the money does.

    #123 2 years ago
  124. ps4fanboy

    @121 http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-sony-tells-eurogamer-playstation-4-will-not-block-used-games

    #124 2 years ago
  125. ps4fanboy

    @123 you need to stop worrying and thinking so much about consoles. There are better things in life to think about. And that stuff u typed seems like templars & assassins kinda stuff

    #125 2 years ago
  126. Samoan Spider

    @125 That’s a really bad interview. He got shat on by his PR person and was being extremely evasive. Doesn’t suit the suggestion though.

    Edit: It’s this bit I like after his apparent bollocking: “So, used games can play on PS4. How is that?”
    Which is exactly what MS is saying. Used games *will* play on the new console.

    #126 2 years ago
  127. ps4fanboy

    That’s the gist I take and nobody took it any other way until xb1 reveal and when ms gave multiple responses to the question

    #127 2 years ago
  128. Samoan Spider

    @128 No, I remember reading an article stating that the interviewer was so surprised at how vague he was being for an extremely quick witted and intelligent person. They said it was odd he started talking shit. I’m paraphrasing. I think they said ‘waffling’.

    Edit: The link: http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/21/yoshida-used-games-caveat/

    #128 2 years ago
  129. ps4fanboy

    @129 while that is a possibility and since I’m as my username suggests a PS4 Fan boy, I take the other possibility. And I know I’m never gonna trade any of you games so it doesn’t matter much to me

    #129 2 years ago
  130. Samoan Spider

    @130 Well that’s fair enough but what if MrsPS4fanboy wanted you to lend her your game?

    #130 2 years ago
  131. ps4fanboy

    @131 I’ll give her my (yet to buy) PS4 itself should she ask for my (yet to buy) game

    #131 2 years ago
  132. viralshag

    If the update is true and retailers have to pay the activation fee, well I’m just gonna say I called this a few months ago and more recently thought this might be how it works. Wish I had a link to that old comment…

    #132 2 years ago
  133. Samoan Spider

    @132 Ah ha, but what if you wanted to continue playing your current hypothetical ps4 game whilst she tried your recently played hypothetical yet completed game at her place on her hypothetical ps4? Long story short, pay up :)

    #133 2 years ago
  134. Cort

    I’m sorry to burst some bubbles, but it is inconceivable that this is not coming to PlayStation. MS are not stupid enough to act unilaterally on this. Does anyone seriously believe that they would be happy to see their games at 35 bucks sit alongside PS games at 15 on the used shelves? And no, I don’t think either company sees the WiiU as a competitor. At least, not a serious one.

    Another clue is EAs decision to scrap the online pass. Not scrap it for XBox games, but scrap it. And as we now know, they’re barely bothering to even think about Nintendo’s new(ish) console right now.

    #134 2 years ago
  135. Clupula

    @135 – I remember when people used to say that Sony wouldn’t keep online play free. Sure, they added a paid tier, but it’s never been a necessity and gives you a ton of stuff for your money if you do choose to pay it. If you don’t, no big deal. You can still play online for free.

    Now, with the amount of negative press XBox One is getting, Sony would be stupid to not take advantage of this and use it as a selling point for the PS4 that, unlike Microsoft, they’re not going to charge you for used games.

    #135 2 years ago
  136. SplatteredHouse

    @135: EA scraps online pass, then a week later announces strategic partnership with Xbox. MS and Sony would not consult together on some unified plan. It’s unheard of.

    #136 2 years ago
  137. Cort

    I might have agreed with you if EA hadn’t dropped online pass. Again, not just for XBox, but completely.

    #137 2 years ago
  138. Cort

    Who said anything about a unified plan?

    #138 2 years ago
  139. SplatteredHouse

    @138 If EA gets a percentage of all Microsoft’s EA software resell, isn’t that more than they’re getting today, and in return, they agree to ramp up promotion of their titles on Xb1 – maybe special consideration to players of EA titles would form part of Xbox Live Gold…

    They could having done the math, considered the Xbox audience behaviour/demographic, and then figured that Microsoft alone could support them (if Sony for its own platform wasn’t willing to match the direction of Microsoft) to make dropping the pass, in favour of their resell scheme worthwhile?

    @139: Wouldn’t EA have consulted with both already, and if they’re both acting alike afterwards as you suggest, then; unified plan?

    #139 2 years ago
  140. sg1974

    @140 That explains why EA deleted the pass for XBox 360/One. Now explain why EA deleted the pass for PlayStation 3/4. Are you seriously saying that a profit-making company is willfully abandoning a way to make money from one platform because it has found a way to make some more on another? I take it you’re not an EA shareholder…. ;o)

    And there is a difference between a unified plan and two companies doing the same thing. MicroSoft and Sony are going with PC architecture. Anyone think they discussed and agreed that?

    #140 2 years ago
  141. SplatteredHouse

    @141 I already suggested a scenario in which EA might decide to hedge its bets with Xbox, over PS4. EA would still be picking up their usual profits from PlayStation new copies sold as well.

    As for why Sony would elect to use a common PC architecture: 1. Their development community and relation with them is aided. 2. Much of the problem the Cell processor presented led to issues with ported games quality, it was distinctly different from the makeup of the rest of the competing platforms making things more difficult for games creators. Microsoft were already following a unification strategy, and shared similarity with the PC platform so they carried on as before.

    #141 2 years ago
  142. sg1974

    #142 You haven’t answered my question. Great if EA can make more money from MicroSoft by going in balls-deep with Seattle. But why choose to walk away from easy money from the Playstation platform at the same time? *They can do both* – this scheme with MicroSoft, and just keep the existing pass system with Sony. Yet they’ve nixed it on both consoles. What profit making company chooses to scrap an established, profitable system that works, without a better replacement system *for all income streams* in the pipeline? There is absolutely no sensible answer to that other than “because Sony are going to adopt a similar scheme too”.

    I didn’t say Sony would have no reason to go the PC route, or say I didn’t get why they chose it. I pointed out that two companies choosing the same route is not proof of a unified plan.

    #142 2 years ago
  143. Paranormal Pett

    Why would any one sell the Xboxone ‘IF’ this pre-owned thing will cost retailers around £35?? Everywhere makes their money from the software not the hardware side of things. To me, if something could aid in my downfall, I wouldn’t sell it, I’d go with the competition instead….unless Sony are going to implement the same thing then we are all screwed (hyperbole ftw)

    Need more information from MS on what is truly happening.

    #143 2 years ago
  144. sg1974

    “Need more information from MS on what is truly happening.”

    Problem is, every time a journalist or analyst asks MS to explain it, they get a different answer. Even if if they’re asking the same person. If Harrison can’t agree with himself, how are they all going to agree? It’s a car crash.

    #144 2 years ago
  145. zoopdeloop

    What if EA amongst other publishers use both consoles as a testing ground to see which system makes more profit,how many game units are being sold and on what system?
    One using preowned activation costs on used games while the other is free.How much they gain with the former tactic and how much they lose with the later and vice versa.

    I don’t think ps4 follows with the preowned activation costs…not for now.Maybe they’ll turn around further down the line if publishers really demand it.

    On the other hand EA already got an agreement with Microsoft with (timed )exclusive content on COD and who knows which other titles.Sony could let it pass on EA’s account only if EA’s used games are without activation costs on their system.a fair agreement

    #145 2 years ago
  146. laughing-gravy

    I’ve read the Eurogamer article and basically what it comes down to is MSoft will dictate the fee to the retailer so they will still get their cut. Of course the shop itself will have to add the sale price to that otherwise there’s no point in them stocking it. And expect the used game to be expensive too. Also the retailer will have to be connected to MSoft’s cloud network so they can track the sale of every used game. This is Orwellian levels of control we’re talking about here.

    So basically it’s exactly the same as we feared, it’s just that MSoft will be able to pass the blame to the retailer. Very, very sneaky. No thanks but you can shove Xbox one up your arse.

    #146 2 years ago
  147. monkeygourmet

    No matter how you dress the stories up, MS is still fucking with people in a big way.

    I love the fact people are still doing the ‘wait for E3′ damage limitation speech….

    It’s a crock of shit, just get over it. The only thing the games will do, is to give people a reason to forget all the 1984 bullshit they are shoving into this console.

    It’s bending over and taking it of the higest level…

    How much are you willing to put up with to get COD 15 in your living room…?

    #147 2 years ago
  148. G1GAHURTZ

    @147 (big break! lol! <– snooker joke…):

    "I’ve read the Eurogamer article and basically what it comes down to is MSoft will dictate the fee to the retailer so they will still get their cut. Of course the shop itself will have to add the sale price to that otherwise there’s no point in them stocking it.

    Of course, it could be argued that the retailers are blood sucking leeches who thrive off of selling people the exact same game multiple times, and giving absolutely zero percent of that profit to the actual developers.

    Perhaps this way is more fair for everyone involved?

    @148:

    What are you whinging about? You’re getting worked up over internet rumours and hearsay.

    It looks as though even MS don’t know their own plans, so without official comments, how can you say what they are or aren’t going to do?

    #148 2 years ago
  149. CyberMarco

    @G1Ga – Yet the gaming industry must have some special privileges compared to others.

    #149 2 years ago
  150. laughing-gravy

    You just seem to want to try to excuse everything they are doing. All MSoft are doing is making you pay even more money for something you shouldn’t have to. Of course things like this aren’t rumor or speculation, MSoft will have briefed retail of their plans well in advance. That’s the way the retail sector works. And the tracking of sales is frankly worrying. The level of control MSoft wants over this is astonishing.
    I honestly don’t know what’s worse, MSoft for actually doing it or people who say “yes Msoft you can fuck us over”. It’s apologists that are allowing them to get away with this shit.

    #150 2 years ago
  151. monkeygourmet

    @149

    Come on dude, these aren’t even baby steps anymore… MS have very clearly got designs on total media control. They are just realising how hard that is to sell to people.

    The horrible draconian measures are getting stuck in their throats when they try and explain this to people en masse…

    These aren’t internet rumours and hearsay, it’s plain to see and being covered everyday since it’s unveiling.

    They have gone so far down a road with this, the best your going to get is being shafted, but not shafted ‘that much’…

    They have effectivaly lowered expectations so much, that all they have to do is announce an actual game and people well retrospectivaly justify a purchase.

    #151 2 years ago
  152. G1GAHURTZ

    @150:

    Why not?

    What other industry is there where you can spend $50-100m on developing a product, to only recoup $10-12m, even while it’s still being sold over and over again, to someone else’s profit?

    The movie industry has cinema sales before films go to retail, an album doesn’t cost anywhere near that much, etc, etc… There isn’t really a comparison.

    Game devs are going out of business because of slow sales these days, so why not give them what’s fair, instead of leeching off of them?

    You’d rather your money went to some retailer, rather than the people who actually made the game?

    @151, 152:

    Please see comment #107.

    Tell me how many of those stories, based on ‘insider knowledge’ actually turned out to be true?

    What happened to always online?

    I don’t think I need to check to see if you guys were acting like that was a done deal, do I?

    Was it true?

    No. Just another internet rumour that turned out to be a lie.

    What about this one? Why should we believe it?

    First we all have to pay £35 out of our own pockets, then ‘oh no, that was a mistake’, it’s the retailer who has to pay it…

    No confirmation? No story there.

    Simple as.

    #152 2 years ago
  153. laughing-gravy

    As far as I’m aware you do need an internet connection to use the console. You have to log in once every day, Phil Harrison confirmed it to Kotaku. Yes it is the retailer that has to pay MSoft and guess who the cost will be passed on to? Yep us! This is what I mean about their duplicity. MSoft are still charging the fee, but they pass the buck to the retailer. They lock the supply chain into a single distributor so there’s no way to sell to independents, it’s basically monopolizing the market. Retailers will have already been briefed on marketing strategies, POS merchandising etc. So if a retailer comes out and says “they are doing this” then it’s happening.

    Expect the price of pre-owned to go up, and remember to thank MSoft for doing so.

    #153 2 years ago
  154. monkeygourmet

    @153

    Sorry G1GA, I was going off topic! :)

    Yeah, the £35 thing is prob not true or just not worked out properly.

    Thing is, these things need to be pretty clear, it’s not like they haven’t had a long time to think about them! ;)

    #154 2 years ago
  155. G1GAHURTZ

    @154:

    Yes, you need an internet connection, and yes, Harrison said what he said, but MS also said this:

    “We’re designing Xbox One to be your all-in-one entertainment system that is connected to the cloud and always ready,” the post reads. “We are also designing it so you can play games and watch Blu-ray movies and live TV if you lose your connection.”

    http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4353538/xbox-one-perform-recurring-online-checks-even-for-offline-play

    So right now, the situation hasn’t been confirmed in detail, and it’s unclear. Internet rumours can say what they like, but they’re completely wrong more often than not, so it makes sense to wait for the official confirmation, rather than get worked up over what some random ‘unknown’ claims.

    Yes it is the retailer that has to pay MSoft and guess who the cost will be passed on to? Yep us!

    Blame the retailers for being greedy leeches, then.

    Alternatively, you could simply trade your own games by yourself, without a retailer, because apparently, MS is making it’s own market place.

    But, again, we don’t know for sure, so waiting remains the sensible option.

    At the end of the day, you seem to be saying that you don’t like the fact that MS can dictate 2nd hand prices, but I don’t think that’s the case.

    I don’t see how it would be possible for a retailer to keep unsellable stock, because it doesn’t fall below a one size fits all registration fee. That just doesn’t make sense.

    Forget the retailers. The devs are the ones who need the money to make more games. Retailers only need to make more money to open more stores that there isn’t a need for.

    btw, I generally only buy new games. The only way I would buy pre-owned was if it was the only copy in stock.

    @155:

    No worries, man!

    I’m sure MS have a plan of releasing info at specific times that they’re sticking to, so it should become clear soon enough…

    #155 2 years ago
  156. laughing-gravy

    Why should I forget the retailers they have to eat too. What I am saying is that the price of pre-owned is going up and it’s microsoft who are responsible. This is also from the eurogamer article. “What this means for second-hand games is that Microsoft effectively controls how much they cost, because it controls the activation fee. Whether that fee will move up or down or diminish over time isn’t clear. But it does mean second-hand games will probably be more expensive than they are now”.

    You can’t pick and choose which part of an article you want to believe to suit yourself. And the tracking of games is terrifying. MSoft will know where every single copy of every game is, what time it’s being played and how many people are playing or even watching. They’ll also have your IP address so they’ll know where you live. This is straight from the pages of 1984. Frankly I can’t believe your actually defending any of it.

    The only people that are going to get shafted over this are the gamers and MSoft are directly responsible for it. I also buy the majority of my games at full price on the day of release but occasionally I’ll get a second hand copy when I’m feeling the pinch. It’s for that purpose that I think pre-owned is a good idea and long may it continue.

    #156 2 years ago
  157. spoffle

    I still cannot get my head around why publishers and Microsoft think that they are entitled to a cut of any second hand sales.

    It’s completely illogical, and it’s only the games industry that even supports this notion.

    According to EU law anyway, a company exhausts its control over an individual product after the first sale of it, so legally are not entitled to any other sales after the first retail one.

    Hopefully it goes to court again and is upheld.

    #157 2 years ago
  158. G1GAHURTZ

    Whether that fee will move up or down or diminish over time isn’t clear. But it does mean second-hand games will probably be more expensive than they are now”.

    This is the authors opinion, and therefore, mere internet rumour and speculation. Not a single official word from MS there, and if you read it again, you’ll see an admission of an unclear situation.

    Whether that fee will move up or down or diminish over time isn’t clear…

    And the tracking of games is terrifying. MSoft will know where every single copy of every game is, what time it’s being played and how many people are playing or even watching. They’ll also have your IP address so they’ll know where you live.

    What, you mean exactly like Steam?

    If you do the research, you’ll actually find that consumer privacy is one of MSs primary concerns these days.

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/2039249/google-microsoft-and-yahoo-are-secret-backers-behind-european-privacy-association.html

    #158 2 years ago
  159. laughing-gravy

    I wasn’t referring to the authors opinion bit that you highlighted I was talking about “What this means for second-hand games is that Microsoft effectively controls how much they cost, because it controls the activation fee”. I don’t give a flying fuck about steam as its a completely different market that I have nothing to do with. I do care about consoles however because that’s where I spend my money. Saying this company also does it doesn’t make it right and apologists allow them to get away with it.

    This sort of thing has no place in mainstream console gaming. Msoft, a company concerned with consumer privacy? That has to be the biggest joke I’ve ever heard. They track everything you do. If you want your every move recorded then you go right ahead. Myself and millions of others won’t agree though and they’re going to get a right kicking this gen. They’ll deserve every bit of it.

    #159 2 years ago
  160. Bomba Luigi

    “Saying this company also does it doesn’t make it right and apologists allow them to get away with it.”

    Thumbs up 160, thats something I too don’t understand when People say about something bad “But the Other over there does it too” and think that makes it Ok.

    Thats something bad about Steam. There are good Things too, but maybe it would be smart to copy the Good Things and not the Bad Things.

    And of course, they giving up one of the Greatest Advantage of Consoles over PC, to take over a bad Thing from PC. Dosn’t make a lot of Sense.

    #160 2 years ago
  161. G1GAHURTZ

    I wasn’t referring to the authors opinion bit that you highlighted I was talking about “What this means for second-hand games is that Microsoft effectively controls how much they cost, because it controls the activation fee”.

    This is still guesswork. In the very next sentence, they admit that the whole situation is unclear.

    For all we know, the activation fee could be £3.50. It could be even less, and it could decrease over time. The £35 number was just something that some unknown source plucked out of his nether region. Even then, they didn’t seem to know exactly who was supposed to be paying this imaginary fee, and at what stage.

    Let’s get this straight. 2nd hand games already cost £35.

    If you buy a copy of a 2nd hand game a few days after release, you get about £5 off. It’s only after a certain amount of time that prices come down. Even then, you’re usually looking at £20-25.

    So what if MS wanted to charge £3.30 for every 2nd hand sale?

    Do the prices need to go up?

    No.

    There is no running cost with 2nd hand sales. Retailers could buy them for £5, sell them for £6, and they’d probably still be making tens of millions.

    The main point here, is that we don’t know.

    I don’t know, you don’t know, and judging by the ‘who pays the £35′ mystery, the source of this story certainly doesn’t know.

    Retailers could still keep game prices exactly the same if the activation fee is low enough, and that essentially means less profit for them, and a fair return for the companies who actually make the games.

    And that is a point that you continue to ignore.

    Why shouldn’t the developers be paid every time their game makes the retailer richer?

    You can’t say that you don’t want MS to have this ‘power’, while advocating that the retailers hold an unchallenged monopoly on leeching off of developers.

    What if the retailers decided to make all 2nd hand games £35 of their own accord? You see? The ‘power’ is out of your hands anyway, so what difference does it make if it’s the MS execs or GAME’s execs that hold it?

    You call me an apologist, but at the end of the day, I’m an ex industry professional who sees absolutely nothing wrong in market fairness, and profits being shared with those who deserve it.

    2nd hand sales have been an industry destroying crime for years now, because they stop the developers from a fair share of game sales.

    Don’t ignore that point.

    That has to be the biggest joke I’ve ever heard. They track everything you do.

    Got any proof for that wild claim, or are you just into conspiracies?

    http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/09/microsoft-hits-google-on-android-privacy-name-email-and-location-given-to-app-developers/

    #161 2 years ago
  162. laughing-gravy

    @161 Exactly, I think the saying goes “two wrongs….”

    #162 2 years ago
  163. G1GAHURTZ

    Saying this company also does it doesn’t make it right and apologists allow them to get away with it.

    You’ve missed the point.

    I was simply saying that people don’t have a problem with Steam, and it’s been incredibly successful, while doing the things that you say should stop people buying the X1.

    If it doesn’t affect Steam users, why should MS be afraid to do the same thing.

    If anything, you should blame Steam and it’s many millions of users for setting the precedent.

    #163 2 years ago
  164. laughing-gravy

    Ah now I get it “I’m an ex industry professional”. Suddenly everything becomes clear. Are you sure you are, or just a shill on MSoft’s payroll. Astro-turfing I believe it’s called. Either that or you’re a total bullshitter. I think you live in a fantasy world.

    It isn’t guesswork if retailers are confirming it. Most pre-owned games are way below £35, I can get 3 for £20 in Grainger games. Just who are publishers and MSoft to tell me what I can or can’t do with something once I’ve bought it. I paid for it and I’ll do whatever the fuck I like with it. This is the bond of trust between consumer and corporation.

    #164 2 years ago
  165. laughing-gravy

    @164 Now your getting ridiculous. I should blame steam ha ha ha! There’s no way you’re an ex industry professional because only a 14 yr old would say that. Your a MSoft fan boy who doesn’t like people saying bad things about MSoft.

    #165 2 years ago
  166. G1GAHURTZ

    I think you live in a fantasy world.

    I couldn’t care less what you think of me. What I do is what I do, and whether you believe it or not makes not a slight bit of difference to anything.

    Terrible diversionary tactics, anyway…

    A desperate ad hominem attempt to squirm your way out of a corner.

    You’re still ignoring the fair profits point.

    I can’t say I’m not surprised.

    Why respond to something when you’re so blatantly wrong, eh?

    #166 2 years ago
  167. Bomba Luigi

    Its not like Steam was Popular from the Start, It got there because Valve offered a lot of Good Things with Steam – Reason Nr.1 is of course the Pricing.
    I really wonder what Numbers MS will put there in the Store.

    And of course, why do most Console Only People not wanna a PC? Whats there Number 1 Reason when they Say Consoles are better? Yeah, the Thing MS is now putting away from Xbox One (and Sony maybe too, its not really clear what they are doing.)

    Maybe it really dosn’t matter, but I’m not so sure about that. Either Way, we will have a lot to talk in a Year.

    #167 2 years ago
  168. Ireland Michael

    Ell ooh ell at people supporting this.

    Accepting this is the equivelant of bending yourself over willingly and *asking* Microsoft to personally screw you themselves. This entire system is archaic, greed obsessed, and a giant “fuck you” to its customers.

    As a gamer who has been entirely format neutral his entire life… Microsoft can go fuck themselves.

    #168 2 years ago
  169. laughing-gravy

    Blatantly wrong? Once I have paid for something it belongs to me, otherwise there is no point in me paying for it in the first place. It isn’t a question of ethics it’s common sense. They have already made the profit from the original sale. It’s like saying if I buy a second hand car a cut has to go to Ford. It’s mine period. The only fair profit should go to me as it was me who bought it in the first place. If I don’t get the profit then I may as well throw my money down the toilet.

    #169 2 years ago
  170. Phoenixblight

    @169

    You haven’t given a reason why this is bad just that its people bending themselves over.

    I think this is a great idea it gives a percentage of the money back to publishers and developers when 2nd hand market for games is a billion dollar industry that the people that actually invested and worked on the game don’t see a red cent.

    #170 2 years ago
  171. G1GAHURTZ

    No one is supporting anything Michael.

    Why would I support this, when I don’t even care.

    I don’t buy second hand stuff. I like the smell of new boxes, not bent up old ones with unidentifiable grubby marks all over them.

    I have zero problem with paying £50 for a game that I like, plus an extra £20 for the DLC, and that’s the way I’ve always been.

    I would say the exact same thing now if this were a Nintendo or Sony related story.

    It’s a simple case of pointing out that people such as yourself, and others here, are getting their knickers in a twist over hearsay.

    Nothing more than hearsay… Because ‘teh interwebz sed so!’.

    Bunch of gullible drama queens…

    #171 2 years ago
  172. G1GAHURTZ

    @171:

    +1

    #172 2 years ago
  173. laughing-gravy

    You don’t care, right.

    #173 2 years ago
  174. CyberMarco

    @G1GA –

    “Why not?

    What other industry is there where you can spend $50-100m on developing a product, to only recoup $10-12m, even while it’s still being sold over and over again, to someone else’s profit?”

    It’s not my fault, or the consumer’s in general if the business tactics used from some pubs/devs (e.g. Capcom with Resi6 and SE with Tomb Raider etc.) are full of themselves and can’t compete in the industry they contributed to be shaped like this. Obviously there is something flawed.

    “You’d rather your money went to some retailer, rather than the people who actually made the game?”

    You are questioning the ethics used in a capitalist business? lol

    #174 2 years ago
  175. reask

    Lets be honest here the retailers have been happy enough to rip us consumers off thus far with there meagre price for your trade in compared to the sale price.

    I do buy used at times but stopped trading in a few years back.
    I think a wait and see approach is the best option on this one.

    #175 2 years ago
  176. G1GAHURTZ

    It isn’t a question of ethics it’s common sense.

    No. No, it’s certainly not common sense. Common sense would tell a sensible person that developers need profits to stay in business, or there will be no more games.

    This disgracefully selfish, miserly, ‘What’s mine is mine’ attitude of yours would see the entire industry collapse.

    That’s what common sense says.

    They have already made the profit from the original sale.

    They have made nothing of the sort.

    If they need to sell 2m copies to break even, and the game sells 2m, but they only get the profits for 1.5m of those, then they have essentially been robbed by opportunistic leeches.

    Then they lose money, and jobs are potentially lost.

    It’s short sighted, self destroying greed.

    It’s like saying if I buy a second hand car a cut has to go to Ford. It’s mine period.

    Not even close.

    The more second hand cars on the road, the more money Ford makes, because those cars need servicing, and they need parts.

    Ford gets its money.

    What about the devs?

    If I don’t get the profit then I may as well throw my money down the toilet.

    Nonsense.

    What absolute gibberish!

    If you sell your game to GAME, and they pay you £10 for it, why do you care how it’s distributed after that??

    You’re just talking for the sake of talking, now.

    #176 2 years ago
  177. G1GAHURTZ

    @175:

    It’s not my fault, or the consumer’s in general if the business tactics used from some pubs/devs (e.g. Capcom with Resi6 and SE with Tomb Raider etc.) are full of themselves and can’t compete in the industry they contributed to be shaped like this. Obviously there is something flawed.

    Exactly. That’s why they’re trying to change things.

    You are questioning the ethics used in a capitalist business? lol

    Like I said before, it’s not ethics. It’s a simple case of differentiating between who supports the industry, and who leeches off of it.

    #177 2 years ago
  178. G1GAHURTZ

    @176:

    Spot on.

    They pay you a pathetic sum for a game, then sell it for 4 times that amount.

    One thing I used to hate about shopping at places like GAME was the constant badgering to “bring all your games in when you’ve finished with them”.

    I’d rather give them away, tbh.

    #178 2 years ago
  179. laughing-gravy

    If devs need to sell 2 million copies of a game then they should make good software the best games sell over 20 million. Selfish! If I buy something it belongs to me the same way my house does or anything else for that matter. It’s just corporate greed and MSoft want their cut. They will charge me more money for something I shouldn’t have to and the whole thing stinks.

    #179 2 years ago
  180. Bomba Luigi

    “They pay you a pathetic sum for a game, then sell it for 4 times that amount.”

    Thats right, and they will pay even less because they have to pay MS to Re-activat. So you get less for a Used Game and have to pay more when you buy one, thats the Problem with that System.

    #180 2 years ago
  181. Phoenixblight

    “If devs need to sell 2 million copies of a game then they should make good software the best games sell over 20 million. Selfish!”

    Irony.

    “If I buy something it belongs to me the same way my house does or anything else for that matter. ”

    Actually you don’t. WHen you buy the game it says right there on the TOS you are paying to access the content and you have no right to it.

    #181 2 years ago
  182. Ireland Michael

    @171 It takes ownership away from the consumer in the most self-obsessed, money striping way possible. It completely invalidates the existence of physical ownership. I fully support restrictions on digital ownership, but if I buy a disk, I expect to be able to use it without restriction. If its not an MMO, it has no excuses.

    For example, what happens 15 years down the road when the Xbox 1 is “retro” and you want to play some of its older games? What if the servers have been turned off? What then? 8 or so years of games completely unplayable? Will we have to sit and wait for the possible HD remake that might never happen?

    What happens when a rare game goes out of print and the only way to get it is through trade? I have to pay Microsoft for the privilege? Fuck no. If I can just buy it and play it straight off on the PS4, this console generation has already been decided for me.

    And don’t feed me any crap about paying for the license, not the disk. If you want to be buttfucked and treated with scutiny and obsessive paranoia by a company who doesn’t understand that blind greed isn’t the only way to turn a profit, that’s entirely your choice. I personally no interest in supporting that system.

    I have *never* boycotted a single system since the day I picked up a keyboard and joystick on my state of the art Amstrad CPC 464 back in 1985, and I’ve owned every major one.

    This will be first.

    @172 Logical fallacies, blah blah blah.

    #182 2 years ago
  183. Lengendaryboss

    @Laughing Gravy
    “the best games sell over 20 million” There are two franchises that come to mind COD which is recycled trash year after year which has hardly any quality or innovatory newness to its name and no bringing dogs into it doesn’t count and then theres GTA which is a quality franchise which doesn’t come out yearly and has quality attached it. Your point makes sense and at the same time it doesn’t.

    #183 2 years ago
  184. laughing-gravy

    @182 You’ve taken the first sentence out of context look at it again. The selfish starts the following sentence “if I buy a game it belongs to me.

    #184 2 years ago
  185. Cort

    “What other industry is there where you can spend $50-100m on developing a product, to only recoup $10-12m, even while it’s still being sold over and over again, to someone else’s profit?”

    Take a step out into the real world, for christ’s sake. Many companies and sectors make big investments on new products that don’t sell enough to recoup costs let alone make a profit, and make no money from resales of those products. Some car companies have invested over a billion on new models which failed to show a penny in profit in the bottom row. And last time I checked, you don’t need the manufacturer’s permission or have to pay them a fee to sell your car on.

    You are highly skilled at making statements which read or sound as thoughtful, analytical or profound, but are complete nonsense.

    #185 2 years ago
  186. G1GAHURTZ

    @180:

    If devs need to sell 2 million copies of a game then they should make good software the best games sell over 20 million.

    Yeah… Sure. Because game development really is that easy.

    Selfish! If I buy something it belongs to me the same way my house does or anything else for that matter.

    When did I say otherwise?

    Feel free to quote me.

    It’s just corporate greed and MSoft want their cut.

    Developers want to keep their jobs, more like.

    I honestly don’t want to judge you right now, but you are coming across as being the miser of all misers.

    @181:

    That’s just a scenario that you’ve concocted in your mind, with no proof to back it up whatsoever. You have absolutely no idea if that’s what will happen or not.

    If the shop wants to stay competitive, it will keep it’s prices down.

    #186 2 years ago
  187. Phoenixblight

    @183

    What happens if the system you currently own blows up or just stops working? What if you fell down and both of your hands were ran over and you were unable to play games forever? We can play this game all day

    Its been this way with PC games for the longest time and I can bet you that SOny will have a similar set up otherwise Devs and publishers will be shifting more content towards the Xbone.

    #187 2 years ago
  188. Ireland Michael

    @185 That’s not selfish. It’s the law. Once I’ve handed over the cash, its my property.

    If I pay for something, I can do whatever the I want to it as long as I don’t pirate it or abuse its copyright, or otherwise break the law in some way with it.

    Any company that wants to bend that law and tell me otherwise can take a very long jump off a very tall bridge, especially when said company already has billions of dollars sitting in their coffers. Because this sure as hell isn’t about saving jobs.

    #188 2 years ago
  189. Phoenixblight

    @189

    Can’t do that with a PC game both physical and digital. SO that is where your “law” argument fails.

    #189 2 years ago
  190. G1GAHURTZ

    Some car companies have invested over a billion on new models which failed to show a penny in profit in the bottom row. And last time I checked, you don’t need the manufacturer’s permission or have to pay them a fee to sell your car on.

    This is nonsense, because, like I’ve already said, car manufacturers make huge profits from selling warranties, servicing, parts and repairs.

    The worse your car is (in terms of mid to long term reliability), the more money the manufacturer can potentially make.

    Try thinking the next time you decide to post a comment on a website you ran away from…

    #190 2 years ago
  191. laughing-gravy

    @187 A miser! I also work hard all week to earn money to buy things that I expect to own. There is absolutely nothing unreasonable about that at all. You are trying to change the subject of MSoft charging a fee for pre-owned.

    #191 2 years ago
  192. Phoenixblight

    “Thanks a lovely little site called Good Old Games, I have digital possession of almost every PC I have ever owned on my PC, DRM free. I also still own almost all of the discs for them, the vast majority of which have no restrictions on them whatsoever.”

    You can’t sell them, nor can you rely on the fact of being able to play them forever with every iteration of OS.

    #192 2 years ago
  193. Ireland Michael

    @188 “What happens if the system you currently own blows up or just stops working? What if you fell down and both of your hands were ran over and you were unable to play games forever? We can play this game all day”

    Those are semantics and you know it. I’m talking about OWNERSHIP here, nothing else.

    “Its been this way with PC games for the longest time and I can bet you that SOny will have a similar set up otherwise Devs and publishers will be shifting more content towards the Xbone.”

    Thanks to a lovely little site called Good Old Games, I have digital possession of almost every PC I have ever owned on my PC, DRM free. I also still own almost all of the discs for them, the vast majority of which have no restrictions on them whatsoever.

    “@189 Can’t do that with a PC game both physical and digital. SO that is where your “law” argument fails.”

    I accept digital restrictions on sharing stuff if you bought it digitally, but I don’t and never have supported physical games with digital restrictions on them at all. You won’t see me buying a copy of the Assassin’s Creed games on the PC any time soon, for instance.

    “You can’t sell them, nor can you rely on the fact of being able to play them forever with every iteration of OS.”

    I don’t expect to be able to sell them if I bought them digitally, obviously. I’m talking about physical ownership. I can still sell the discs if I wanted to. Heck, some of them are probably worth a fair few pennies…

    The modding community for creating support for games on older OSes is huge. All I need for half of them is DosBox. There’s almost nothing you can’t get running on the PC with a five minutes search of Google.

    #193 2 years ago
  194. Bomba Luigi

    Its developers Fault when the Game is not a Success, and not the Fault of the Used Game Market. No Industrie ever blaimed the Used Market when they got Problems, only Gaming Industrie does. People sell stuff they buyed once, other People buy used stuff, its there since we have Money and Products, never was a Problem.

    But its now, for the Gaming Industrie. Right.

    If you need to sell 5 Mio. Games to make Profit and then don’t sell 5 Mio. Units, you simple put too much Money in Production and Marketing. Put down the God Damn Costs you morons, its one of the oldest Lessions.

    Sorry, I sound a bit harsch, but I’m sick of Developers whining that only 3 Mio People buyed their Game in the First Month. Wining about used Market and Piracy, blaming even the People who buyed their Product at Day One for Full Price, searching for the fault everywhere but not by themselfs, I can’t hear that anymore.

    I thank god that there are other Developers, Developers who thank you for Buying the Game, who are happy and found it amazing when 2 Mio. People buy their Product. Thank God there are good Guys out there, its not all bad in Gaming Industrie. And that are the Parts where my Future as a Gamer is, not that BS like Xbox One.

    #194 2 years ago
  195. G1GAHURTZ

    I also work hard all week to earn money to buy things that I expect to own. There is absolutely nothing unreasonable about that at all.

    When did I say otherwise?

    You can own what you like.

    Developers and publishers currently have a problem in that their only source of income is paying someone else’s bills.

    They are trying to solve that problem, and if they do it correctly, you should have nothing to worry about.

    Right now, all we know is that they’re trying to solve the problem. We don’t know how, so all I’m saying is, why get so irate about it?

    Just like the many other false rumours that we’ve seen over the last few weeks, this one could well turn out to be a non-story.

    #195 2 years ago
  196. Phoenixblight

    @194

    Well you better get used to it because once games become services and not something you own. Your hobby will be based on playing games from the past.

    THis is the direction the industry is going and what MS is doing is a step towards games becoming service and once that happen your “ownership” will be gone. But if you think Sony won’t be doing the same thing you are sorely mistaken.

    #196 2 years ago
  197. laughing-gravy

    @195 I’m glad your talking some sense. If I do bad work I get fired. It’s up to me and me alone. Everyone has to take responsibility for themselves. That includes publishers/developers. If you do bad work it will reflect in your sales.

    #197 2 years ago
  198. Ireland Michael

    @197 Then the industry can go fuck itself, obviously. I love this hobby, but its not my entire existence, and I’m not going to be treated like garbage by a company to support it.

    Apologies for actually having morals.

    “But if you think SOny won’t be doing the same thing you are sorely mistaken.”

    Whether they do or not will entirely decide for me whether I buy a PS4. If they do, they can go jump off a bridge too. There is still a huge market out there beyond the PS4 and X1 that I am more than happy to support.

    #198 2 years ago
  199. laughing-gravy

    @196 I get irate because it will be me paying for it. It’s more money out of my pocket. As a consumer I also have rights. I’m very lucky to have a job considering the state of the economy and their asking for even more money, I have bills to pay too.

    #199 2 years ago
  200. Ireland Michael

    @200 Consumers will have to vote with their wallets. If they don’t want to be treated like this, they have to show the company that they won’t accept such practises by refusing to support the product.

    Sadly, I’m afraid most people will probably pick one up the moment a single solid game is released on the format.

    #200 2 years ago
  201. Phoenixblight

    @199

    Glad we cleared that up. So E3, no More you being on this site? :P

    #201 2 years ago
  202. Ireland Michael

    @202 Funny.

    #202 2 years ago
  203. G1GAHURTZ

    @195:

    Video game development isn’t that straightforward.

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/ds/grand-theft-auto-chinatown-wars

    http://www.vgchartz.com/game/24661/grand-theft-auto-chinatown-wars/

    I’m simply using this game to highlight the fact that it’s not the case that a ‘good’ game always makes a profit or sells 10m+ copies.

    #203 2 years ago
  204. laughing-gravy

    @ oh I think you can be confident I won’t support it.:-)

    #204 2 years ago
  205. G1GAHURTZ

    @200:

    That’s fair enough.

    As for me, I think I’ll wait and see what official policies MS (and Sony) come up with before I make my mind up.

    I’m actually looking forward to seeing some games at E3.

    #205 2 years ago
  206. DarkElfa

    @206 Whatever dude, like you’re going to jump ship.

    #206 2 years ago
  207. G1GAHURTZ

    ^

    XBL: G1GAHURTZ
    PSN: G1GAHURTZ
    Steam: G1GAHURTZ

    #207 2 years ago
  208. Lengendaryboss

    Some insight into the EU Law which might make a few things difficult for MS to uphold in Xbone, for anyone whose interested:
    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=566989

    #208 2 years ago
  209. Hcw87

    Nothing has been confirmed yet, they’ve even said it themselves that it’s all speculation at this point.

    “Reports about our policies for trade in and resale are inaccurate and incomplete. We will disclose more information in the near future.”

    In fact, this whole story is retarded flamebait. If the publishers have made a deal with Microsoft to enforce a trade-in pay-wall, don’t you think PS4 will have the exact same thing? Because they will if this is true.

    #209 2 years ago
  210. Lengendaryboss

    @Hcw87
    But there is something very strange about all of this: EA scraps Online Pass, At some point it was rumoured they have an exclusive alliance with MS, Showing off next generation FIFA 14 at their multimedia reveal of Xbone, giving MS that exclusive content in the Ultimate Team Edition. The question still unanswered is why? why partner up with MS when FIFA sells best on PlayStation platforms.

    #210 2 years ago
  211. G1GAHURTZ

    ^ Money?

    Why did Bungie partner up with Sony, when FPSs sell better on 360?

    Same answer, maybe?

    #211 2 years ago
  212. Ireland Michael

    @210 “In fact, this whole story is retarded flamebait. If the publishers have made a deal with Microsoft to enforce a trade-in pay-wall, don’t you think PS4 will have the exact same thing? Because they will if this is true.”

    Most of the sources of these stories are quotes from the people who work from Microsoft themselves.

    #212 2 years ago
  213. Lengendaryboss

    @G1GA
    I just think theres more to the story, but money is most likely the reason.

    #213 2 years ago
  214. G1GAHURTZ

    @213:

    I think you’ll find, Michael, that the key quotes in this specific story, (the one Hcw87 was actually talking about) are from “unconfirmed reports” from “retail sources” who are probably getting second hand information in the first place.

    #214 2 years ago
  215. G1GAHURTZ

    @lb:

    Yeah, MS said something about spending $1bn on X1′s gaming lineup, iirc, so I’d expect some of that would have gone on buying exclusivity deals.

    #215 2 years ago
  216. redwood

    @216.. they plan on investing, have not invested yet. Also the exclusivity deals isn’t as big a thing as everyone makes it out to be. what matters more is that they have their own studios making new IPs for them. that is more cost effective and sustainable for them. Other wise the exclusivity deals kinda waive off after one game and you see the sequels going multi-plat.

    #216 2 years ago
  217. abdooltk

    You now company like Microsoft do not care about gamers or the fan of company or consumer they just want RIP OFF our money .Take lock the impassive companies like APPLE,SONY,NINTENDO,AND ROCKSTAR GAMES THE CONSUMER IN FRETS,BUT WITH MICROSOFT NOOOO THE CONSUMER IN THE LAST FOR EXAMPLE RED DEAD LIGHT .SOME THING FUNNY BECAUSE OF MICROSOFT I HAVE 3 XBOX360 WITH RED DEAD LIGHT AND MICROSOFT RESPONSES IS THEY CAN’T FIXED ,BUT THEY SORRY BAY ANOTHER ONE I swear SO FUCK MICROSOFT IT’S A MASSIVE RIP OFF GUYS AND DON’T BE FOOLS …….

    #217 2 years ago
  218. alexh9813

    Microsoft you reading this?
    If you want to destroy GameStop for some reason, I well hel

    #218 2 years ago
  219. G1GAHURTZ

    ^ Uh oh.

    Looks like GameStop got to him before he could finish his sentence…

    #219 2 years ago
  220. Clupula

    @217 – Would it be possible to just write in your native language, copy/paste it and then put it through Google translate or something? I imagine it’d be an easier read for those of us who speak English than what you’re currently writing. Not to be a dick about it, but it would probably be better for everyone involved.

    #220 2 years ago

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