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New industry survey confirms immense gender wage divide

Thursday, 4th April 2013 09:50 GMT By Dave Cook

Game Developer Magazine has published the findings of its annual survey into employment equality in the games industry, and the findings underline the need for significant change.

You can see the full results of the survey here, as published by Border House. They show that the percentage of females working at studios is tiny compared to men, and that there is still a disconnect between gender and wage.

Broken down by employment roles, the survey found that “Producers” holds the highest amount of female staff at 23%, “Business and Legal” at 18 per cent, “Artists and Animators” at 16% and finally “Game Designers” with 11%.

“Audio Developers” is the area with the least female presence at just 4%, and across the board there is a strong case that the games industry needs to approach the issue of female employment with fresh eyes, and that perhaps roles in the sector are not marketed well enough to female professionals and graduates.

But the problems don’t end there, as females are almost unanimously paid lower than men in almost every area of the industry. Again, “Producers” came out on top with the smallest level of difference at an average of 78k per year, which is on-average 8.3% less than males in the same role.

But similarly, “Audio Developers” proved to be the worst-case role, with males earning 65% more than women at 83k a year, compare to a typical female wage of $50. “Business and Legal” comes next with males earning 31% more than females at 108k and 82k respectively, “Artists and Animators” sees males earning 29% more than females, while male “Game Designers” earn on-average 23.6% more than females.

The figures raise difficult questions about the rationale behind such a chasm of difference. Why does this exist in the first place? What justification – if any – could large publishers and studios give? Regardless someone should be asking these questions. You could bet that the answers would be awkward and embarrassing, and perhaps that’s rightly so.

Discuss below.

Thanks GI.biz.

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65 Comments

  1. alterecho

    Well, there simply may not be more women interested in game development jobs.
    As far as pay is concerned, did they measure the pay relative to the male employees of the SAME company or some other higher paying company, that does not have a female in that particular role?

    As for doing something about this ‘issue’, they should start from the education level. Encourage females to take up courses in the field. But, i think this is more about personal choice of females. They may not be interested to take these jobs.

    I find it hard to believe, in this day and age, there can be any sort of inequality between genders in these kind of jobs.
    Pardon me, if i’m wrong.

    #1 1 year ago
  2. Dave Cook

    @1 “Well, there simply may not be more women interested in game development jobs.”

    That’s very true, although there’s a concern that these roles aren’t being marketed to women and females at high school properly, hence them not being interested. There’s perhaps still a belief that it’s a male-dominated industry and that might put women off pursuing a career in games.

    It’s a complex issue at any rate.

    “Pardon me, if i’m wrong.” I don’t think you’re wrong in that regard, because yeah you’d think we were past the point of such equality but you see it in a lot of sectors sadly. It’s inexcusable really and a little hard to believe, but I’m certain it’s true.

    #2 1 year ago
  3. Da Man

    Multiple inferior male employees / hardcore computer entertainment software customers in 3.. 2.. 1

    #3 1 year ago
  4. alterecho

    @2 Yeah, they need to be informed of the career opportunities available to them while they choose their courses. But then again, you can’t force things down anyones throat, after that.

    As far as i’ve seen, not many women are interested in playing computer games in general. You would have observed, throughout the net, many male gamers go gaga over female gamers. Why? Mostly because they are a hard to find (i think).

    Also, i don’t think people in the industry have ego issues and such with fellow employees, merely based on the gender.

    #4 1 year ago
  5. silkvg247

    I’m not sure why being a minority would result in being paid less. If anything wouldn’t it make us more valuable?

    I’m also suffering from this, I’m as good at, in some cases better than my male colleagues at what I do, all of them get paid more than me and the best thing is I have more experience than some of them. When I handed in my notice at the last place, they finally put on the table the salary I should have been on, the “male” version, but was too little too late.

    I think in some cases the women actually do perform worse and should be paid less, generally I’ve seen they can be shyer, less confident, which also has a part to play.

    But in other cases they kick some serious ass, maybe even more than men, because they have so much more to prove and so much shit to deal with.

    It’s a depressing topic that I try not to think about. I really don’t know why anyone can get away with paying an equally capable women less, but it happens everywhere, even now. It’s still a mans world, it’s just less obvious than it used to be.

    #5 1 year ago
  6. Dave Cook

    @4 “you can’t force things down anyones throat, after that” very true. I think there’s a certain way to go about it so that it doesn’t feel pandering or in all seriousness – starts inequality against men. There’s need to be a balance here that I think will prove tricky for the industry to nail, but there’s room for improvement certainly.

    #6 1 year ago
  7. Da Man

    As far as i’ve seen, not many women are interested in playing computer games in general

    Not many are interested in watching anime or passionately relating to rasterized meshes either.

    Internet logic: you need to like cars in order to work at Mazda.

    Reality check #1: people work to get payed.
    Reality check #2: you don’t need to play Quake in order to develop it.

    #7 1 year ago
  8. Dave Cook

    @7 +1

    #8 1 year ago
  9. Old MacDonald

    I think a reason might be that businesses generally offer the lowest wage they can to anyone, and without proper unions it’s usually up to the individuals to negotiate their wages. In other words, typical male characteristics such as (over?)confidence will help you get a higher wage, while people who are conflict-shy and maybe not as confident will get a lower wage.

    Not saying it’s always like this. I just know from experience that being a pretty conflict-shy and not all that confident person isn’t so awesome when you’re trying to convince the bosses that you are underpaid.

    #9 1 year ago
  10. Dave Cook

    @9 Are there any unions out there for game professionals that you know of are is that just the problem – there aren’t any? If so then the industry really needs to take a look at that for sure.

    Is TIGA an employment union?

    #10 1 year ago
  11. viralshag

    Less workers of a particular gender shouldn’t mean less money.

    The only other thing is though, knowing it is a “male dominated industry”, why don’t we see more women heading up their own dev companies or teams? There very well might be and I’m missing it or just not looking for it.

    It’s just that the indie scene is stronger than ever and yet most of the people I see pitching games, still seem to be male. Other than our very own resident female dev Silk, of course.

    @5, Do you think that sometimes women can be their own worst enemy in the workplace? So many women I know that have worked their way up the ladders all seem to share a common trait of preferring to work with men over women and often find other women to be, in some cases, “annoying” to work with for the reasons you pointed out: “shyer, less confident” and sometimes just go along with anything.

    #11 1 year ago
  12. alterecho

    @7 Consider this, a woman is about to enter college and has no particular interest in any field. She is offered a choice between a course relating to games development and a course relating to architecture design or engineering. Her probability of choosing a game design course is random. Thats why i said they need to informed of their available career opportunities.

    I know a some of people who enter into games industry because of interest.

    Also, interest in the course/work you’re doing is important for college. I’m telling this out of experience.

    #12 1 year ago
  13. Da Man

    #12

    In other words, you need to inform uneducated females that they can live off making stuff up for computer entertainment purposes. Okay then.

    The depth of this passionate analysis is endless.

    #13 1 year ago
  14. Samoan Spider

    Not directly on topic, but relevant to many suggestions above relating to an interest in the subject.
    Maybe funnelling people down this path to game design as a lot of universities seem to be doing is symptomatic of a larger problem. Maybe instead of making game design the focus, make art and creative writing etc the target.
    Coding is for those that have the deep interest in computers and gaming. But what’s actually lacking these days seems to be fresh blood with vision and creativity that aren’t guided by their own pre-conceptions of what it takes to make a game. In creativity, your sex is irrelevant.
    You either have a flare, or don’t.
    Take a man or woman who doesn’t like games to make a game with you, they’ll probably say no. Ask them to help you realise a vision you have and by christ they’ll be on board. Gaming still has a stigma attached that isn’t easily shifted, even now.

    #14 1 year ago
  15. alterecho

    @13 Isn’t it just.

    #15 1 year ago
  16. Da Man

    No.

    #16 1 year ago
  17. freedoms_stain

    Looks like they’ve averaged the wages of everyone without adjusting for experience/years in the industry – which is just flat out wrong.

    We’re talking about an industry that has been massively male dominated until the last 10-15 years, therefore there are a lot more experienced men commanding higher salaries.

    If you compare individuals of similar experience the differences are not going to be as skewed as they’re suggesting.

    #17 1 year ago
  18. MadFlavour

    #18 1 year ago
  19. Dave Cook

    @18 I’ve just edited that comment right out. That’s not cool. At all.

    #19 1 year ago
  20. zinc

    ^ Now was that removed by VG247, or did you wuss out?

    Edit

    Ok, that answers that. Nicely done Dave.

    #20 1 year ago
  21. Dave Cook

    @20 Yeah I nuked it. The comment smacked of pure idiotic, immature ignorance.

    #21 1 year ago
  22. zinc

    @Dave, Yeah, it was designed to provoke for sure. Nothing good would have come from leaving it in… Well apart from a ban from Pat.

    #22 1 year ago
  23. YoungZer0

    Naw, I don’t believe it. Sorry, but the Gender Pay Gap is a feminist myth. It has been debunked multiple times. Women usually work less hours, therefore earn less money in general. They choose less dangerous jobs, therefore earn less money. I actually have read somewhere that in some cases Women work less for more.

    If you think you get less money than your male counterpart and you consider yourself to be better, demand more. Simple as that. However, if you suck and you work less, don’t get cocky and don’t fucking complain.

    I’m kind of tired of this bullshit. As soon as you hear that there are more men working in a company, everyone screams discrimination.

    How could it be?! Those women must be the target of misogyny on a daily basis, because that’s what men do, they intimidate! It would never cross their mind that the women working there feel comfortable and that there are simply only a few women working in the industry, because only a few women are interested in that stuff.

    Then everyone demands from these women to step forward and encourage other women to work there.

    Why?!

    First of all, leave these women alone. They might not want to be front and center of the attention. And seriously, you need encouragement? Are you a child? Work there or don’t. But don’t expect people to constantly pat you on the back.

    #23 1 year ago
  24. Dave Cook

    @23 “Sorry, but the Gender Pay Gap is a feminist myth. It has been debunked multiple times. Women usually work less hours, therefore earn less money in general.”

    Woah, that’s a stretch mate. Where’s the source on that one?

    “They might not want to be front and center of the attention.”

    I agree with this fully ^

    #24 1 year ago
  25. YoungZer0

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina-hoff-sommers/wage-gap_b_2073804.html
    http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-s-gender-pay-gap-is-myth-it-s-just-not-true-experts-say
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-that-we-end-the-equal-pay-myth/
    http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/10/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-media-myth/
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_162-28246928/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/
    http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-07-26/commentary/32859540_1_gender-wage-women-staffers-higher-paying-fields

    #25 1 year ago
  26. Stephany Nunneley

    @23 “Naw, I don’t believe it. Sorry, but the Gender Pay Gap is a feminist myth”

    Not in the “south” it isn’t. Trust me.

    #26 1 year ago
  27. Dave Cook

    @25 yeah, I still don’t believe it. Seen enough discussions bout it on the news to know it’s not just a fairytale. These people can’t just be making this up.

    #27 1 year ago
  28. YoungZer0

    @26: What south?

    @27: Believe what you want to believe, if those websites with their logical analysis didn’t help, nothing will.

    If hiring women would be less expensive for a company, we would have companies full of women. After all, they are all about profit.

    You underestimate how deeply rooted feminism is in western society.

    #28 1 year ago
  29. viralshag

    @27, Why not? In truth there may be other factors at play other than being a woman as to the reason why they get paid less.

    Are ALL male programmers earning more than any of the women in the same position? In some respects I agree with YZ, in that if you believe you are owed more, you should demand more and if you’re work is really above and beyond that of male or female colleagues, there is no good reason to not get it.

    I have met plenty of people, men and women, who think they deserve more and will simply not ask for it because they think their bosses will simply recognise it and give them the world. If you act like you’re content with what you have, you shouldn’t expect to be given more.

    #29 1 year ago
  30. Dave Cook

    @28 “You underestimate how deeply rooted feminism is in western society.”

    No I don’t. That’s the point I’m trying to make. It may be there and ingrained but that doesn’t make it right does it? Pay inequality in the games industry when you have a man and woman with the same grades, skill sets and ability to do the job is wrong. That such should be clear to anyone. Even if it happens once at any studio then something is wrong.

    But saying it doesn’t happen at all is just mental, it really is. If that’s not what you were saying then I take it back but really, the survey can’t be lying as well can it?

    #30 1 year ago
  31. Samoan Spider

    @28 Feminism is deeply rooted but not so long ago in western history, there was very little a woman was ‘allowed’ to do outside the home, so like everything we have progressed and this is clearly the next thing to tackle. Its not the case everywhere.
    In my industry, women are a rarity and the ones who are in it get equal pay if they are equal in skill. But in exchange, they take the shit just like the men. Your sex is left at the door when you walk in. The sexism however, is brought in by the customers.
    There are places where there are extremes though and women’s pay is significantly higher or lower than men for no other reason than what they are. This report is deeply flawed by not taking into account a huge number of variables that would significantly alter the subject beyond comprehension of most people except statisticians. Dumbing down is what is needed for it to reach a wide audience, even if the subject matter becomes inflammatory.

    #31 1 year ago
  32. OlderGamer

    @7 +1 again.

    #32 1 year ago
  33. silkvg247

    Eh.. reading some right bollocks here. I always ask for more, and I work at least 40 hours a week. I’m always told same old shit.. you’re worth it but we can’t afford it (or insert excuse here). Meantime I find out the guys I practically lead are on more. Whatever, sexism doesn’t exist, I didn’t find it out first hand, it’s all in my head.

    #33 1 year ago
  34. YoungZer0

    @30: Again, I don’t believe in the Gender Pay Gap. I’ve worked in a mixed company, with over 50% of the workers being female.

    Guess who did most of the overtime. Guess who left earlier. A Mother who makes 3 times as much as I am who works less than half of my shift. Sure she was a Senior Art-Director, but she was also pretty damn useless. Not because she wasn’t competent, but because she wasn’t there when you need her.

    I’ve seen it first hand. Women coming back later from their break, leaving earlier, coming late to work. No questions asked, it was simply accepted. Twice I saw a very competent female co-worker go home because she received negative feedback for her concept.

    My creative directors simply accepted that.

    I’ve seen competent artists (Men) get less money because they were afraid to ask for more. If a company finds a way to keep money from you, they will. The 77 Cent thing is bullshit.

    I’ve not looked at the actual survey yet. But from my experience you always have to look at the actual numbers, not even the conclusion, but the actual numbers. You have to know how they got those numbers, what questions they asked, who they asked.

    There’s usually always some agenda hidden there.

    Feminism, much like Religion is corrupt. It’s all about money now. If you keep enforcing the belief that women are still being mistreated in Western society, then you’ll still get your money. Feminism will never reach it’s goal, because it keeps creating new enemies it can’t defeat.

    That’s why there’s this whole Patricharchy thing going on.

    @33: Then threaten to leave, call them out on their bullshit. You have laws protecting you from that sort of discrimination. Fucking use them.

    I left my company because they didn’t pay me enough and I had to do massive overtime. I updated my portfolio and I applied for different Jobs, gambled at first, but then actually got a good offer from a different company. So I left.

    If you KNOW you get less money and you KNOW it’s because of your Sex, then call them out on it or leave. But don’t complaining about it on the internet isn’t going to change a damn thing.

    #34 1 year ago
  35. viralshag

    @33, But do you think it’s only women who are given that excuse and are the only underpaid good workers?

    #35 1 year ago
  36. salarta

    Having not yet read all the comments yet since there are a lot, but of course having read the article…

    This is essentially a symptom of our culture still being set up in such a way that everything, especially women themselves, is defined by men. The qualities perceived as necessary for someone to be worthy of a promotion or a raise are the very same qualities that men are more likely to present, and that are culturally seen as inappropriate for women to have to the point that most women refrain from expressing those qualities. Businesses prize more aggressive, tough, even cut-throat attitudes, with unwavering self-confidence. The emphasis is on leaders making tough decisions with harsh logic… while women are seen as emotional, gentle creatures. Society reinforces this attitude, women grow up with that perception of themselves (and if they don’t, society will continue to try to “set them straight”), and at the end of the day the man gets the promotion while the woman remains underpaid for her actual capabilities.

    It also doesn’t help that things have progressed so far that women see men as human beings but themselves more as objects.

    http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/05/25/490528/study-women-are-objects-men-are-people/
    http://netnebraska.org/article/news/unl-study-says-we-view-women-sexual-objects-and-men-people

    I think we WERE on the right path toward bridging this gap for women back in the 90s. We had female characters that were strong at their core, from Xena, to Buffy, to Lara Croft and Aya Brea. Oh, and don’t forget the music, such as Sarah McLachlan. We’ve lost those figures over the past decade. If Xena and Buffy were created or rebooted today, the emphasis would be on how much we could make them suffer until some newly introduced element of girlish innocence is broken. The emphasis today is that if you’re a woman, you’re a fragile and emotional creature, and you can only be tough if you’re abused enough to have your girly ways crushed out of you, typically in the context of men teaching you to become more manly by example or threat.

    The solution to this… I’m not sure. I’ve said before that the answer is to let women define themselves. And before I started this post, that’s what I was going to say. But now that I think about it, a good chunk of women are unknowingly defining themselves by how men think they should be. Stockholm syndrome comes to mind. I don’t know whether what we need is women defining themselves, or men trying to change depiction of women so that women can see themselves in other ways that could hopefully lead to women defining themselves and how society should see them without the influence of men affecting their definitions.

    #36 1 year ago
  37. Da Man

    ^Who do you work as? Yeah..

    #37 1 year ago
  38. roadkill

    Well first of all why do you have to market those jobs for any gender? And second, maybe they suck at it and that’s why they get payed less.

    @7 Hah! You’re such an idiot. You’re missing the point.

    @11 You know why? Because males are smarter. A females-only studio would fail.

    #38 1 year ago
  39. salarta

    @37: I’m Batman.

    #39 1 year ago
  40. Stephany Nunneley

    @34 – “Feminism, much like Religion is corrupt. It’s all about money now. If you keep enforcing the belief that women are still being mistreated in Western society, then you’ll still get your money. Feminism will never reach it’s goal, because it keeps creating new enemies it can’t defeat.”

    Women will never be able to be taken seriously by the corners of society which tend to generalize them based on their gender, appearance, or stereotypes until they start respecting one another first.

    There are many who scream “feminism” day in and day out, calling upon the “sisterhood” to help change things for the better, and then turn around and stab another woman in the back over a man, a job, or smirk about their shortcomings behind their back. If you have ever worked in an office full of women, you see this in spades. Queen Bee syndrome, etc.

    @11 “…share a common trait of preferring to work with men over women and often find other women…”

    That was my point above, however it rarely has anything to do with being “shyer, less confident” – I think it depends on the position. Being shy doesn’t mean you are inept. If you are an accountant – for example – these traits should not keep you from making the same salary as a man if you have equal experience and training. If you are a public speaker? That’s a different story entirely.

    #40 1 year ago
  41. Da Man

    No, you are an idiot, #38. Also your mother said I’m amazing. We played Half Life together and decided to form a company to passionately develop for PC.

    #41 1 year ago
  42. Dave Cook

    @41 “Also your mother said I’m amazing. We played Half Life together and decided to form a company to passionately develop for PC.”

    This ^

    #42 1 year ago
  43. OlderGamer

    I am reminded about the old song, “If I had a hammer…I would swing it in the morning, swing it in the evening, all day long…”

    #43 1 year ago
  44. salarta

    @40: When I read your sentence about women stabbing each other in the back over men, a job, etc, first thing I thought was “But what sets up the dynamic and atmosphere where women stabbing each other in the back is thought of as preferable to friendly, well-meaning co-existence?” We assume it’s purely a female phenomenon. But since men are typically defining what it takes to get ahead in the workplace, what qualities are deemed important in women, and of course which woman has what he wants for him to give her his affections (though with relationships I can’t really fault the guy), I can’t help thinking male influence is still if not the main cause then at least a big part of it.

    #44 1 year ago
  45. Stephany Nunneley

    @44 “I can’t help thinking male influence is still if not the main cause then at least a big part of it.”

    I sometimes think that as well. Then again, I have worked with some really hateful women in general and attributed their actions to just being naturally rotten to the core. ;)

    #45 1 year ago
  46. salarta

    @45: Well, you’re always going to have tools and assholes of any sex, race, species, etc regardless of circumstances. It’s part of nature. :P

    #46 1 year ago
  47. viralshag

    @44 / Steph, I don’t think men set the tone for what’s needed to get ahead in business. Unfortunately, male or female, certain “cutthroat” types will get ahead because they will do what is necessary to do so.

    There is obviously no rule or real reason to act like this but if you’re not prepared to fight for a position over someone who is, I don’t know why you would expect to win. And that doesn’t always mean you have to fight dirty as such but I think there is a fine line between what is seen as being aggressive and being driven to be successful.

    #47 1 year ago
  48. The Dude

    I think YoungZer0 speaks a lot of truth here.

    In the dev studio I work in there are NO women, but there are still pay gaps all over the place, and some (most) people getting paid way less than they should be. There have also been cases similar to silkvg247 where leads have found out they’re earning less than people under them (again, all dudes here). But they kicked up a fuss and in the end they got what they were after.

    It’s problematic because there are so many factors such as people being better negotiators when joining, quality of work, differing roles, length of time being an employee etc. Not to mention the fact that salaries are never transparent; often, most people keep what they earn secret. I can safely say, with a few exceptions that everyone is being paid a different wage. Some a lot more/less than others. But when you have nothing to compare to, it’s difficult to know if you’re being paid honestly. And some employers will try to screw you over if they can, whether you’re a man or woman, to save money.

    Another thing to consider is *where* you work, what country. How you’re treated and what you’re paid can differ. On the social side of things, although it’s all-male here, it’s by no means a “boys only club”. We’re well aware our team is a sausage factory (not literally) and at times wonder why more women don’t apply for jobs. In my time here, I think about 4 have applied for various roles in comparison to the tonnes of guys. And only one ended up being offered a job, but she ended up accepting a job elsewhere. I can tell you though, there are no anti-female sentiments here. We don’t bite! (There are PLENTY of female employees though on the financial, PR, sales, law side of things, I forgot to mention.)

    #48 1 year ago
  49. salarta

    @47: As you pointed out, being cutthroat means “they will do what is necessary” to get ahead. The problem is cutthroat by its social understanding means the person will act in ways that are hurtful to potential rivals. We’re assuming that just because business presently operates as “purposely screwing over the other person is the right way to act,” that’s the only way it ever can and ever should work.

    Why can’t people get promoted purely based on how hard they’re willing to work for the betterment of the company, or how willing they are to be team players? We define what it takes to get ahead in business by aggressive and hostile procedures up to and including sabotaging “rivals” when we could just as easily define it by cooperative spirit and initiative to give yourself to good work.

    #49 1 year ago
  50. viralshag

    @48, Great post. So much of that rings true for most of the places I have worked.

    @49, But if you’re not going to be aggressive and go after what you think you deserve why would you ever get it? I’m not an aggressive person, bullshitter or “cutthroat” but when it comes to work I make sure my bosses know exactly what I do and what my worth is to the company. I’m not going to hold back on making myself look better than others, especially if I actually am better than others at the job.

    If someone wants to be passive and act happy with their lot, all the better for me. Just don’t complain when you find out you’re getting paid less. I love being friendly and a team player but when it comes down to it, I’m here to get paid and I’m going to make sure I get what I think I should.

    #50 1 year ago
  51. Stephany Nunneley

    @50 A person should not have to sing to the heavens their positive attributes. Every employee should be called in once a year to their HR department and assessed. This assessment should come from a record kept by the person’s main boss – or whomever they report to on a daily basis – and any work issues or betterment should be addressed from there.

    You go to the dentist annually, you pay your taxes annually – therefore it should be a non-issue for a department to do the same with it’s employees. That is one of the things HR is there for – I know because I worked HR for years.

    In short, you should not have to blow your own horn for the boss to know what you are doing. It has nothing to do with being “shy” or “aggressive”. He/she should already be on top of it. And if you feel you are being treated unfairly and have mentioned it to no avail, or you see “squeaky wheels” getting all the oil – go someplace where you are appreciated.

    #51 1 year ago
  52. roadkill

    @41 ?

    “and then turn around and stab another woman in the back over a man, a job, or smirk about their shortcomings behind their back” Exactly! These are your usual women. The cool women are very very few. Just like men actually.

    #52 1 year ago
  53. FeaturePreacher

    I wonder if the potential workforce is not split 50/50. If those ladies that chose to do housework over non-housework aren’t included in the potential workforce, then perhaps the potential workforce could be 55/45 men/women or higher. Hence there wouldn’t be any chance for the workforce to have equal amounts of either gender without surgery.

    #53 1 year ago
  54. silkvg247

    @53 Most women can’t afford to stay at home and be housewives now. Or should I say, most families can’t afford that. What about house-husbands?

    #54 1 year ago
  55. OlderGamer

    <<<<Is a house Hubby.

    No really. I like to joke saying I am a trouphy husband lol. I do dable. I have sold a fair amount of video games on Ebay. I do once in awhile sell something in print. But yeah mostly I fold laundry, clean dishes, vacum the floor, and have over the years changed a hella of stinky pants when taking care of my two kids. My kids are older now, one in Air Force, other soon to graduate HS.

    And I could use a raise too, I guss I need to take that up with the boss when she gets home ;)

    #55 1 year ago
  56. Djoenz

    @55

    Yeah but can you cook decently? If not you suck man! JK. :P

    #56 1 year ago
  57. YoungZer0

    @40: “Women will never be able to be taken seriously by the corners of society which tend to generalize them based on their gender, appearance, or stereotypes until they start respecting one another first.”

    See, this is where I completely disagree. You shouldn’t see yourself as a woman or a man, but as a human being first. I won’t take anyone serious who considers him-/herself to be more or less because of their gender. I won’t take anyone serious who chooses to help another person because of their gender. I consider this to be very poisonous to a healthy society. You can see it already.

    There are lot of campaigns/companies/you name it that focus on helping women only, but leave men in the dust.

    Women and men walking on the streets, telling that men should stop raping. That men can stop domestic abuse. Completely ignoring that men, especially young boys can and are raped by women. Completely ignoring that cases of domestic abuse are nearly 50/50. Most people think that women are weak therefore they can’t really hurt the men. Facts however show that women will use weapons, throw items at their partner to hurt them.

    Crisis Center refuse to help men that have been beaten by their girl/woman/wife. Instead they will be told to visit a center where they learn not hit their women.

    Rape is being used as a weapon in Congo, yet men who were penetrated (raped) by other men via their Penis or tools, like screwdrivers or in some cases even weapons. If they manage to not to bleed to death before reaching a crisis camp/hospital, they will be told that it’s women only.

    Organisations like “Because I Am A Girl” sell products which will help finance education for girls in third world countries. But only girls. There are laws in third world countries forbidding gential mutilation of girls, yet in first world countries we still allow it to happen to baby boys.

    I think this separation is what is killing any chance of equality.

    We have to stop this Bullshit. We’re only hurting ourselves. We need less Centers/Campaigns/Organisations that focus on one Gender only and focus on all of them. Have an open mind about it.

    If you visit a crisis center and all you see are women/men, it enforces the believe the “others” are the enemy. They are essentially breeding grounds for hatred. We’re not helping anyone with that attitude.

    “There are many who scream “feminism” day in and day out, calling upon the “sisterhood” to help change things for the better, and then turn around and stab another woman in the back over a man, a job, or smirk about their shortcomings behind their back. If you have ever worked in an office full of women, you see this in spades.”

    Yep, this has been pretty much experience with women who consider themselves to be feminists. The toughest women I know don’t even know what “Feminism” means.

    Feminism doesn’t mean Female or Women. It doesn’t even mean “Women’s Rights”. You can be for Women’s Rights and against Feminism, which is what I am.

    @48: Very good post. Pretty much has been my experience as well. Not gaming, but marketing.

    @55: That’s very cool, man. I’m being very honest here.

    #57 1 year ago
  58. Stephany Nunneley

    @57 Just you just seriously compare circumcision with genital mutilation of little girls?

    #58 1 year ago
  59. zinc

    I believe now is the the time to.throw a rubber ring into the pool, as someone has clearly gone off the deep end & seriously out of their depth o_O

    #59 1 year ago
  60. salarta

    Screw the rules, I’m going to eat the woman cereal and women are going to like it!

    http://www.mrbreakfast.com/cereal_detail.asp?id=182
    http://ph-studio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Harmony_gallery.png

    #60 1 year ago
  61. OlderGamer

    I can cook, I have the food network! Honestly tho, good descusion. I’m gonna stop posting so I don’t get in the way. Needless to say I think that gender(and other) equalities are very important.

    #61 1 year ago
  62. YoungZer0

    @58: I do. I don’t understand why you do not. Why is it okay to cut little baby boys? Hit youtube, have a look at it. Tell me you’re fine with it.

    Over 100 babies still die from complication that occur during “circumcision” every year. I don’t call it circumcision, because it’s gential mutliation.

    It’s not just a piece of skin.

    The pain of circumcision can have serious repercussions on the body of a newborn baby. Babies are known to scream hysterically, stop breathing, lose consciousness, vomit and defecate during the operation. The shock of the surgery can even cause ruptures of the heart, lungs and stomach.

    The effects of this trauma can continue after the surgery is completed. Some babies experience severely disrupted sleep patterns, breastfeeding complications and interruptions of the infant- mother attachment process after circumcision.

    The glans or head of the penis is meant to be an internal organ and the foreskin covers and protects it from harm in much the same way as the eyelid protects the eye. In circumcised males, the glans becomes hardened or keratinized by constant exposure and irritation, which reduces sensitivity.

    It heals and it’s more hygienic, yes. But that’s a sick argument. Learn to clean your dick and you’re fine.

    Having no outer labia is probably also more hygienic.

    Religion has no place in this.

    #62 1 year ago
  63. Brenna Hillier

    What’s that? Vanishing comments? Well, my hammer hand is getting itchy, and apparently “being a totally and utterly bonkers sexist” is a banning offence. Who knew?

    It’s a good thing I have no mind to go back through the rest of these posts. Henceforth let’s have no more bullshit.

    #63 1 year ago
  64. polygem

    did not read the comments but smell a lot of sexist bullshit?
    the industry needs more innovation, less machoshooters and soccer games. those sell, correct but so does fast food. this stuff must not go away but it’s sad that it dominates. i hope there will be more and more women playing and creating games. it will only be good for the industry as a whole obviously and it will happen anyway, even if it takes too long. world is full of blockheads with power telling other blockheads without power what to do to keep them in power at any cost. society needs to get rid of sexism and should look at how we treat animals too. it is a shame really. something i cannot understand since i was a kid. makes me angry every single day still…and sad. it is a fucked up world sometimes and you can blame religions a lot imo. they just dont practice what they preach and they give power to people who should not have any. disgusting and weak. maintaining power at any cost isn’t real strength. it is superweak most of the time.

    #64 1 year ago
  65. roadkill

    @63 “Henceforth let’s have no more bullshit.” And what qualifies you to make the distinction between truth and bullshit? (NOTE! I didn’t say what qualifies you to ban users/delete comments!) Tbh I think you’re not in a position to do that because your thoughts on this matter are subjective.

    @64 “sexist” is just a word women invented to make guys feel bad for saying the truth. Only them and their tools use it. I don’t even know what it means really.

    #65 1 year ago

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