Durango: Kinect, always-on Internet, and installs all mandatory – rumour

@49
Rapid hand movement whist browsing the internet or watching movies == mansize kleenex advert?

“Im still half expecting they reduce the amount of memory” That’s a thing I feel fairly confident in predicting will not happen. Because, the PS4 is built to spec advised by developers. Sony asked, and all feedback I’ve seen suggests that the makers, they approve of the amount of RAM available. They won’t alter that.

@49

Im not sure if you’ve used Kinect 1.0, but there is an option to have it ‘always on’ for trying to improve voice control from the cloud.

I guess the idea being, the more people use voice control, the smarter Kinect’s library of phrases and capabilities with dialects it becomes.

Also new on Xbox dashboard, was the ‘recommendations’ feature linked to previous purchases (nothing really new, very similar to Amazon shopping; i.e. You purchased this, you may also like xyz…)

My main problem being, these two features being linked together along with MS’s obvious media push will really start to push me away from the new console if it’s true.

At the moment, my girlfriend and I share a flat. We have an Xbox 360 each, her’s is in the lounge, mine is in the bedroom for co-op gaming.

Having to have Kinect 2.0 ‘always’ on in the bedroom isn’t really a nice idea IMO!

You could say; “Point it at the wall or whatever…”, but I shouldn’t really be having to think about that when I simply want to play a game.

I think Kinect 2.0 could end up being the biggest ‘harvesting’ tool for advertisers in recent years. If Kinect 2.0 can keep picking up ‘buzz words’ in conversations in linking that with your ‘likes’ then MS and any media advertising companies will be loving it!

People who want to play games, maybe not so much…

@52

No, I’m with you there too. It’s just strange it’s built alongside Dev’s, when it was a suprise to most of them that Sony upped the RAM at the last minute.

Also 8gb of GDDR5 is almost overkill compared to the rather ‘vanilla’ CPU and GPU. It’s a strange addition IMO.

Not showing the console has made me wonder how they are going to cram it all in!

#53

Why would MS need that elaborate setup when they already have probes implanted directly in our brains?

Well, I say ‘our brains’ but I mean ‘your brains’ really, as my tinfoil hat shields me from the hypno-rays they use to subdue you before implanting.

I also have a tinfoil bunghole stopper. To stop the MS cancerworms, obviously.

But in all seriousness, crack cocaine will cause you problems in later life. I’d lay off it a little.

happy norooz…………

@56 I thought that was the 21st?

@53:

Hmmm… Well, that’s certainly dwelling on the outer limits of what’s possible.

I mean, of course it’s possible.

But likely? I’m not so sure.

If MS wanted to harvest info like that, they already have something that’s much more effective than a potential eavesdropping device.

Windows.

If they really wanted to, they could keylog every word we type, and activate every webcam.

Yeah, I can fully understand the bedroom thing, but I’d probably give MS the benefit of the doubt until they give us a reason to think otherwise.

Here is their Kinect privacy FAQ, btw… It all seems reasonable enough to me.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/kinect/privacyandonlinesafety#DataCollection1

@58

Don’t you try to bring a privacy FAQ into this! We’re only referencing 1984 and having kneejerk reactions!

PROTIP: THERE’S A CAMERA IN YOUR PHONE THAT FACES YOU WHEN YOU HOLD IT! PROBABLY ONE IN YOUR LAPTOP TOO!! THINK OF ALL THE THINGS THE GOVERNMENT HAS SEEN.

This comment section is the definition of overreaction.

@58

I def get what your saying, the privacy FAQ is also a good read. Key point in that being; ‘How to turn Kinect off’.

If these rumours prove to be true, why else would MS want Kinect 2.0 to always be ‘on’?

Not trying to go really dark, just be interesting to know what you would feel justify’s an ‘always on’ camera attached to a media device in your home?

And, of course, everything we look at can generally be ‘logged’ in some way or another, i’m hypocricital in that respect because I still use a lot of these service’s: Facebook etc…

It’s just nice to know which direction we are heading in society. If you’d have told people 30 years ago there would be CCTV all over the place, our movements would be logged via GPS, they would have called bullshit… But slowly, over time, these things bleed into our everyday lives, especially through ‘trojan horse devices’ we all crave: Consoles, Phones etc…

Also, with Hacking becoming increasingly more widespread, things like an ‘always on’ camera linked to user accounts starts to ask even more questions!

@49

PS3 eyetoy cam nonsense might do the same.
The cameras can gather info as in your height/length etc. But also preferrences somehow.

Dont ask me how or the techy side but I think its how they can also accustom ads to certain players.

Like it can even distinguish different ppl from eachother..

I might be talking outta my ass oh and sorry for my bad english typing.

Im dutch.

@60:

I already have an ‘always on’ camera attached to a media device in my home.

In fact, I have 2 looking at me right now.

My webcam on my laptop, and my front camera on my iPad.

They’re both always on, because all it takes is for any application that uses them to open, and they instantly activate.

I have Kinect, btw. But since I’ve decided to take a break from gaming, recently, I’ve disconnected my 360. I never had a problem with it, or with the Wii sensor (although it’s not a camera), and if, for some reason I did want to make sure it wasn’t working, all it should take is a simple turning off of the power at the mains.

Like I said before, I really don’t think it’s likely that MS will use this to spy on millions of gamers.

Keeping in mind these are just rumors and could be completely wrong, my impressions.

The always-on internet connection isn’t an issue unless some really bad errors occur if the internet connection cuts out, or if it asks for way too much bandwidth. Even then, as some others have said, you could probably just turn off the device.

Mandatory installation is tricky. It forces people that may want to immediately play a game to wait through an installation process that could take a long, long time. Even if most people already do installs, there are at least a few that wouldn’t like it. It could also be frustrating if you want to bring a game to a friend’s house for one night and you have to wait for it to install for the one night you’re going to play it. And of course, if this is part of a scheme to prevent used games from being played on consoles, that changes the mandatory install direction into something much. much worse.

But I think the worst of the list is requiring Kinect Sensor to always be on. For one, that’s like forcing an iphone user to always have Siri on; sometimes, people don’t want to use a feature and prefer more traditional operation. And for another, far more important issue: webcam spying.

I only quickly glanced at the most recent comments, but most of them seem to be obsessed with the idea of Microsoft spying on consumers in their own homes. That’s not the real risk. The real risk is the rest of society. Webcams can and have been used to spy on people, even take photos of them. This has especially been a problem for women, who have had their webcams hacked so that perverted techies can look at them naked and even save and spread pictures of them online without the woman ever knowing. “So what, that just means women have to wear some damn clothes” you might say, but even if we ignore that risk, there’s also the risk of potential thieves using the webcam of the Kinect Sensor to scope out a place before breaking in. Wanna know if anyone is home, how many dogs they have, if they leave a certain door or window unlocked, even what the code is on the security system, just hack the webcam and watch and listen to every detail. It may not even require actual hacking; depending on what options are available, someone invited into the house could set it up so that they have remote access to webcam view when the owner is out of the room without the owner knowing.

Even if Microsoft had the best measures imaginable to prevent and counteract that risk, even if there’s a 100% chance the webcam of the Kinect Sensor could not be used that way, what people think is a different story. You can have a perfect system, there are a lot of people that would still assume the webcam could be used that way, and because of that would absolutely refuse to get the system. The only people I know that have webcams will either unplug them or obscure them with tape or some object when they’re not using their webcams for this very reason, and that’s when they’re doing work at a computer. Imagine perception when you’re introducing an always-on camera into the living room or bedroom, assuming the latter isn’t where the computer already is. This is a problem Wii does not have with its sensors because those are sensors, not full-fledged cameras.

I don’t want to get too caught up in more rumours. If MS do end up doing most of these things, and I think some of them are plausable…I will just ignore their system. Was leaning that way anyways. So tired of their tactics.

@63
“Mandatory installation is tricky.”

Similar to the PS4 the idea is that games will allow you to start playing shortly after installation starts, and will then continue installing in the background while you play.

@65: Good point, I forgot about that. Though I could still see it raising some issues if people had to delete content from the system just to temporarily add other content.

Just to clarify as as soon as you mention ‘privacy / security’ or ‘human rights’, people seem to jump on you and the ‘conspiracy theorist / tin foil hat’ comments start flying…

I think (from what i’ve seen of MS’s focus this gen), advertising and DLC will play a huge part of the 720. I think Kinect 2.0 will play a huge role in that also.

Secondly, having an always on camera creates more risk when it comes to hacking, as other posters have mentioned.

@62

I understand what you are saying G1GA, there’s easily enough tech in everyday usage that can be abused given the right circumstances.

Im more suspicious of advertising from this perspective and how that has an impact on gaming. We have already seen a huge push from MS regarding this with the 360. Youtube video’s used to be advert free etc…

It all chips away at people’s expectations IMO, the more you get used to it, the further they push things.

The gaming landscape is changing rapidly, and to be honest, im not really sure I like what i’m seeing.

Still on the fence with the PS4 & 720 until I see more, but at the moment, the Wii U looks like the last machine that resembles a ‘console’ as I like to think of them. And thats only because of Nintendo’s shitty online infrastructure im sure!

hey guys from my wiiu friends list:
since you´re here – just in case you´ve sent me messages and cock drawings that i didn´t answer yet.
i am a douche. i traded in my wiiu. trading in consoles is a tradition i actually wanted to get rid off – but here i am doing it again. always end up rebuying them again at some point though i know it´s stupid, but let´s just call it a weird hobby.
wiiu was a fun ride…but i really want to downshift in gaming. this is haunting me for a year or two now. sick of owning all those stuff. too many games. not enough time. i love gaming deeply but there are so many other things i also like. they all eat up my time and show no mercy. owning all the consoles just makes me want to play all the great games for it. tbh, this started to really stress me.
next gen i wont go multiplat. i never want to stop playing games but i want to focus. what next gen is cooking really is interesting for me in this regard. i will look closeley and then make a choice i am planning to stick with. since i love nintendo, i really wish they will go software only at some point so i can enjoy nintendo magic (lol) without needing to own several consoles-eventhough that would mean failure in the hardware department for them probably and i don´t want that to happen to them, or start to get more third party on board finally.

The fact is, that this has been around long enough and the connotations are negative enough that MS would have said Not true.

No comment is what companies say to avoid admitting to something.

@68

LOL turn-coat!

I’ve just re-purchased a PS Vita Poly, no need to explain yourself.

My PSN is monkeygourmet (add me for some Soul Sacrifice multiplayer!)

Have kept the Wii U for the Nintendo exclusives. Then 720 first next gen and a PS4 sometime in the future.

Basically the same as I did this gen with; 360 (multiplats) – Wii (exclusives) – PS3 (exclusives).

Thats a good combo I think!

#69

MS do not comment on speculation or rumour, when asked to or not. It’s their stock response, or lack of one.

We’ll find out all the details in a few weeks at the official announcement but we’re not going to see confirmations or denials before then.

@71

Also, as mentioned earlier, Sony still haven’t shown all their card’s in this department either.

It’s one of those things that both companies would love to do, but neither want to be the first to announce.

Having read the full text I’m a bit dubious as to the authenticity. Wording is a bit amateur in places. The wording doesn’t seem to fit the context either. Not saying it’s fake definitely, but seems a bit odd in places.

There are also links off the main page to Durango Spec, Alpha kit, Beta kit – but they aren’t covered by the article. Why not? Even if it is to confirm what they’ve already said you’d think they would be included.

Understood Poly. I can’t do that because if i did my wife would shoot me. I still use my WiiU almost daily. I am planning on staying with WiiU and PC going forward. I might get a PS4 after it has been out a while and has shown what it can do and what it deliver. I am NOT currently interested in the NxtXbx.

I am at a point where I hate just about everything. There are still games that I enjoy. Most of them are PC games. I do enjoy the GamePad for WiiU, I think it adds a much needed dimension to gaming.

I don’t have the too many games and I play too much problem that some of you folks have. I used to. But now it is just the oppesite. Finding a game to hold my interest is hard, esp amoung the new games. Most the games I want to play are older, or like I said, on PC.

This is the lest excited I have ever been for a new gen of consoles. Part of me just doesn’t care. So much hype, so much the same ole shit.

I still enjoy what I enjoy so I still play.

If I were you poly, I would examine why you keep trading in systems/games AND then rebuying them later. Trading them in is one thing, buying them again months later is just plan silly. And I think it speaks of a bigger issue…you are struggling with gaming. They prolly don’t satisfy you. But they have always been a crutch to lean on. I know because I have been there before.

My advice: Stop wasting your cash. Buy the systems. Keep the systems. Focus on the games you want to play. Really the hardware doesn’t matter, the games do. And once some big name first party Nintendo games roll out, you know you will want them. Best to keep your Wiiu. When Desteny rolls out, you know you are going to want that too. So best to have a system for that.

Best to keep them instead of buying and rebuying them two or three times. Like I said focus on the games. And if they don’t do it for you…might wanna rethink yourself asto what kind of gamer you are or want to be. You can be a gamer w/o owning the latest, greatest, new release. But you have to be able to handle the hype and not cave in lol.

Good luck man.

You’re afraid of a bloody camera, whatever next. Put some blu-tack on the thing.

As for installation, as I stated earlier, it is this simple: faster load times and no need to rely on multiple DVDs which aren’t big enough to hold a game these days.

Why would you fork out the money for a next gen console and then have last gen load times?

Installation means faster gaming and less optical drive use. Yes they will put a big HDD in the thing so you can install hundreds of games with no problem, mechanical HDDs are dirt cheap.

If this is true, then bye bye Xbox.

Always online is just retarded! Game installs are a joke. I bet they package it with a 500GB HDD which with new games that will have massive amounts of audio, textures, etc and be on 25-50GB Blu Ray discs you will fill that pretty quickly. Also, not forgetting the updates and the OS that they will cram in there too. Look at the 20GB Xbox 360, the 20GB was formatted to 13.5GB!

Also the fact they are forcing Kinect onto us is insane.

Like I said IF THIS TRUE then Microsoft can fuck off. But then again, what aren’t Sony telling us either. Maybe the PS4 is always online as well but they just have not told us.

@76 But thats just the point, Sony hasn’t told us much at all tbh, and MS have told us NOTHING. MS could surprise you with a 1TB hard drive. Lets face it, almost every consumer Tivo box has a 1TB drive in it so its not like cost is an issue. No one is forcing anything on you. If after the announcement you don’t like it, don’t buy but no point getting worked up with no actual facts on show.

Edit: Are you not always online now? And do you not install all xbox games now? (foolish if you don’t, its faster and quieter) so really I don’t see how you can be put out if you have a current gen console.

As far as extra storage, I think it would be a shame if the new systems didn’t allow external HHDs to be connected. I can use 2TB external for my WiiU.

Makes more sense then having the same ole marry go round with limited storage space. However I bet a lot of systems where moved this gen while using bigger “limited” edition bundles with larger HDDS. Hell I even bought a FF 250GB XB360 bundle myself.

IMO, they should allow you to connect anyold off the shelf HDD External.

Problem solved. Er, mostly anyways. Once upon a time we purchased Mem Card. If we can use any extrernal HDD that is a win win.

@75: Of course people are afraid of a camera. It has a lot of power. It’s why crooked cops try to get them shut off ASAP so they can get away with corrupt practices more easily, and of course the Steubenville rape case probably would have never been taken with the gravity it has if cameras were not involved to provide evidence. That’s cases when cameras are good, but there are also plenty where they can be bad.

Saying to put something on it to cover it isn’t that helpful either. You have lazy people that would leave it connected and uncovered even when not in use, and on the flip side, covering it or detaching it means you have to uncover or reattach it every time you want to use it. And those steps STILL wouldn’t handle the “potential thieves scoping out a place by hacking the webcam” situation. Person hacks webcam, they can still spy on the person while the system is in use because if the rumors are true (they may not be), users are forced to keep it on and use it at all times when the system is in use.

Obviously I’m not saying “ban all the cameras,” but the point is that absolutely requiring the Kinect Sensor camera to be on and used at all times with the system brings a great deal of risk, when an alternative option for control available that does not require the camera could minimize a lot of that risk.

^ Microsoft do NOT care what colour underpants you wear when gaming. No one does :-S

This whole “kinnect will spy on u!” is ludicrous!

^ Not meaning to sound harsh, but please read my comment for more than a glance first if you are going to reply to it.

I said hackers and potential thieves, not Microsoft.

To be honest, if someone is going to rob you, they will already have some idea of what is in your property without having to resort to using the internet and Xbox Live to scout you out first. Either that or you have the kind of criminals in your area who spend more time planning crimes than actually carrying them out.

The idea that somehow MS will be using the camera for market research is a joke. Hmm, how tall is the player? Shall we market him some long jeans rather than plain regular? lolz.

Online always is hardly new, most XBL players get nosebleeds and cry the moment they get disconnected anyway. As for installs, well stop your bitching.

@83: You’re thinking of scouting as in “what valuables might be in the house for me to take.” I’m referring to scouting as “what is the best time to break into this person’s house without getting caught, what windows or doors might be left unlocked, what’s the code for the security system.” There are a lot of factors that hacking a webcam could help a would-be criminal figure out and plan for, and when there’s an obvious risk of going to jail or worse, it would be pretty stupid for someone not to try to plan it out.

@82, I stand by my statement .

In fact theirs more cases of webcams identifying burglers, than being the enemy within.

A smart crook simply checks your facebook page if they want to know where your at.

I jsut hope the always connected online for single players do not traverse to the final product, i mean the console, that is a big no in my book, the same for sony or nintendo if they took the same thing.

Besides this i dont have a problem with mandatory installations, well i have one i hope is not like ps3 that only allows you to save them on the internal hard disx instead of an external one, i hope microsoft let you save the data in external devices,as for the kinect iam happy with version 1.o, i think i will be happy with version 2.o too

@85: Stand by your statement or not, you were claiming I said something that I didn’t. That’s especially annoying because I don’t think Microsoft would be using the Kinect to spy on people either, but apparently I would have to explicitly say that if I don’t want other people to decide what my opinions are for me then denounce me supposedly having the opinions they decided I have.

As for the rest. Saying “there are more cases of this thing than that thing” would, except in rare obvious cases, require actual numbers to back it up. I make no claims of how common or uncommon webcams being hacked for criminals and peeping toms is, only that it’s been done before and poses a very real risk that could become worse if the Kinect Sensor is approached the way the rumors are suggesting.

And like nollie, you’re assuming a very limited scope for scouting out a person: whether or not they’re home. As I’ve pointed out multiple times, hacking a webcam can do far more than just tell you if someone’s home. If that’s your only goal, you can hide out near the house, watch from outside and unknowingly get a lot more useful information besides just whether or not they’re home.

You’re also assuming every single person in the world that uses social media spends all their time telling everyone exactly where they are at every second of the day, and that’s an absurd assumption to make. There are people like that, but not everyone. It probably isn’t even a majority that do it.

poly trading in his Wii U?

What’s next, Erth saying 30fps on cur gen consoles is ok?

edge source says the documents are real
http://www.edge-online.com/news/new-always-on-always-connected-durango-leak-is-real/

Source after source is confirming the same thing wow.

It’s definitely real.

Bit outdated though, I’d imagine – stuff like this is in flux up until the annoucement (and even after, up until the hardware is shipped).

People that dont give a shit about this are retards.
People that bitch about people that bitch about this are retards.

Its about the principles. The way they force shit! If it were optional there was no problem.

You sheeple may be fine with this but dont bitch about people tht are genuinely worried. After all discussing debating about this is what game sites is all about.

Pfff.

Mandatory installs no biggie? I’ll just buy a new HDD cause its dirtcheap. Lmao they should include it. So give me the full package at least.

This nextbox better have a 1tb HDD and if it has less I should be able to do replace it easily with any HDD whatsoever or better yet support external HDD’s.

Fact is Im bound to it or need to add/buy additional shit and that is just plain wrong imo.

Didnt the first set of xbox’s came out without included wifi adapters? Same.principles.

Tolerate this and it will only get worse.
Same for PS4..

I might go STEAMBOX!!!!

You guys are delusional. Seriously, whatever next, criminals spying on you using your xbox camera. Like a house burglary justifies the time and effort involved in the herculean task of hacking Xbox live, then getting through to your exact console just so someone can find out what colour your knickers are. FFS typical Americans living in fear of bad guys, better start taking a gun to school and armour plating your house, just to be sure. Jesus, if I wanted to know what time your house is likely to be empty, I’d just watch the front door for a few days and wait till you left. Better yet, I’d walk into the NSAs HQ and just borrow a satellite for a day or two sure they won’t mind…

As for external HDDs, yeah great. Of course if you knew jack all about USB mass storage you’d realise how bloody slow it is and again that internal SATA HDDs are faster, which takes us back to the original point- they want you to install games because it enhances your experience of their product. Not because they want to totally control your daily lives and really jerk you off. As I said, mechanical HDDs are dirt cheap these days, 1TB internal should be ample even for the most cynical console fanboi.

As for always online, jeez, what a deal breaker, it isn’t like most 360′s arent chained to the freaking wall anyway, just like your fucking cable or set top box, or landline telephones, devices which have been ‘always online’ for decades without complaint.

And to add it all the goon complains about both Xbox and PS4 and then states he might buy the steam box, which sure as hell will be more online based than any other platform. Backward much?

@#92 How many people that are upset about this are also the same people that whine about 360s having games with multiple discs too?

@92, +1

@91, Is it mandatory that you buy this *rumoured* product? No? Then stop whining & object with your wallet * if* true.

@87, I’m sorry, but the fact remains… No-one wants to see you in your undercrackers.

That always means Durango will implement different power states so that it can “always be powered on”, but will draw minimal electricity when not in use.

Not sure why people think always on=always online,not even the same thing

superDaE the person who got arrested for leaking 720 info is saying that all VGLeaks documents are old

https://mobile.twitter.com/superDaE/status/314417662027501569?p=v

More confirmation guys, Edge is reporting this report is accurate and from LATE LAST YEAR, so most probably present in final build, as there is very little time to change a major component now, since they are incorporating always-on fully and hardware is based around that.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/new-always-on-always-connected-durango-leak-is-real/
And Edge was probably the only one which correctly said Sony was planning to upgrade PS4 to 8GB GDDR5 Ram. So they have been very reliable.

As I said earlier, thanks MS for saving my money.

@88: i never was the platform fanboy others made me here. never ever was. i love good games not platforms. no matter how often i repeated that. some people here just dont listen or only hear what they want to…what can you do?

#97
The XDK never said no used games
The XDK never said required online
The “Always on,Always connected” part not even talking about require online,only talking about background updates and low power mode.

And in fact,something like require online or not and block used games or not are mostly about software,very little time to change?it’s super easy to change,they can even change them few hours before they announce the console.

Hell,even some peoples on page 1 already pointed out that…

@Fin,

@99,
I never said otherwise, just pointed out the report. We can just wait i-2 more months to get all confirmations.