Durango: Kinect, always-on Internet, and installs all mandatory – rumour

Fuck that, I’m not paying Microsoft so they can watch and listen to my personal environment.

PS4, you win, welcome to my living room.

You do realise these are recycled rumours?

You do realize they sound very easy to believe and probably are.

Let me ask you this, if they turn out to be true, will you then try and find an excuse why it’s a good thing? Will you defend them still?!

If so, then why defend against the rumors…

You defend against them because you find the idea offensive and don’t want potential buyers to be turned off by what could turn out not to be true.

Anyone who does that better not even show their face in here in defense of it on the day it turns out to be true, if that indeed happens, or else face major ridicule with no leg to stand on.

If Microsoft uses the Kinect to spy on their players, they will be guilty of FELONY wiretapping in most states, in addition to a violation of the ECPA:

“Wiretapping
: First among these is the ban on illegal wiretapping and electronic eavesdropping
that covers: (1) any person who (2) intentionally (3
) intercepts, or endeavors to intercept (4) wire,
oral or electronic communications (5) by using an electronic, mechanical or other device.”

So yes, it’s a completely tinfoil hat theory, and if it actually happened there would be arrests and some of the biggest fines in history. People would be fired, Microsoft’s reputation would be damaged on the same level as the Murdoch phone hacking scandal, and heads would metaphorically roll. All for what?

Wow… I do think this is what was planned by Microsoft, but seeing how Sony decided not to go in this direction, Microsoft might have changed their mind.

If it’s not the case, I can hardly see how they will not lose the hardcore gamers here. Of course the casual and mainstream gamers (young adults who play but are not that aware of gaming actuality) might not even pay attention to this, just like most of them didn’t know/care about RROD. Microsoft might be going this way, especially since their emphasis seems to remain focused on casual/mainstream gamers, with Kinect, etc.

The problem is that, as it can be seen with the WiiU : casual gamers’ attachment/fidelity rate is REALLY low. They won’t buy a Microsoft console because it’s made by Microsoft. Look how Surface RT floped, even with a misleading “Windows”. Casual’s attention on games are directed towards smartphones and tablets, and they don’t need a dedicated 300+ dollar system to play games. Tablets are in that range, but you can do almost anything you want with a tablet (surfing, video, etc.). In the US Microsoft has a decent media service offer (with partnership with Netflix, etc.) but it’s not enough to justify such a purchase.

As for mainstream gamers, they would/could go for Nextbox if there was an exclusivity deal with Call of Duty/Battlefield for instance.

But as for me, mandatory Internet connection = NO BUY. At. All.
And when I see how, Internet connections are not that stable/good, even in highly crowded cities (I live 20 km away from the capital of my country and my broadband connection isn’t that good), even I can easily see that the would cut themselves from an ENORMOUS quantity of gamers.
I think about 25% of Xbox never got connected to the Internet, or something like that?
Dumb move.

People really seem to be missing the point, also on NeoGAF. Previous docs, like the one from EDGE claimed that an internet connection was required for the system to function. Read this new doc though and it says something totally different. I don’t see it saying internet is required. I bet it’s going to be like 360, if you play offline you will just miss out on updates.

There are still now people out there that don’t have internet, hell i know a few. But they do have a 360. MS is aware of that too i’m sure. If it however DOES turn out that you can’t play a game if you are offline, that’s a pretty bad thing for some, but not for me cause i’m always online anyway when i’m gaming. I just hope my internet connection won’t ever give me problems when i go gaming.

Comes with Kinect? Not that much of a deal for me. Installing games and no playing from optical discs? Odd….but i’d mostly dislike it because this pretty much removes any chances of backwards compatibility?

Here come the paranoia brigade…

@5: look at Google and Gmail or Facebook (which I use).
They monitor your activities in one way, even if it’s said to be “anonymously” with no direct recording, etc.

Microsoft could “monitor” your activities indirectly, with an “always-on” connection without being liable for trials, etc. It COULD be done.
For instance, they could really well monitor the number of people present on your couch without “identifying them” and prevent you from launching a video rental because “you exceed the number of people allowed”. I am not saying they WILL do that, but they COULD, without “breaking the law”.

It would be a totally despicable practice, for sure.

@6

You state the exact reasons why MS won’t be mostly focusing on casual, they won’t buy it right away. But if MS gets one or two great exclusives for launch for it, hardcore gamers sure will, boy do i hate that word though. I’m pretty positive that MS will bring a new IP or two for the new Xbox and that is aimed at the real gamers, let’s just keep it at that.

What is up with rumors being printed twice tonight?

While I have no doubt this is probably true, it’s odd that both this and the FFVersusXIII/FFV rumors are being printed for the second time.

I see people on NeoGAF all going ‘ah fuck this, i’m going with Sony next-gen’ and i’m like…why? What exactly is so bad about this? Big deal about Kinect being a necessitiy for the system to function, big deal about having to install games, maybe it could actually be good. Install games while playing them? No problem at all. Always on? Again no problem and i highly doubt that this would mean you can’t play a game if you are not connected. I just don’t see that happening. People are soooo overreacting it’s just ridiculous.

@4 – Keep in mind Woe is also the guy who scours the internet for any potential negative thing that can be posted about Sony. Often, I should note, “recycled rumors.”

boycott this shit

@12 I’m thinking the same thing. So far it’s PS4 for me but I have absolutely no problem with what I’ve read here. I find this pretty nice actually. Games update automatically while I’m at the job. Power on is super quick. I always install all my games and now I don’t have to wait while it’s installing.

The only “negative” is about Kinect but I don’t really care so it’s not really a negative.

I know the title kind of makes it sound like it, but if you actually read this thing it doesn’t actually say that it can only work online at all. It says that the system will always be on, at least in sleep mode, and that therefore the internet connection would always be running. It doesn’t say anything about the internet connection being required for anything. It only says that the Kinect is mandatory for the system to run, not the internet connection.

I read the ‘always on’ network access as not something that you must have to make the console work (like Sim City), but rather if you leave it attached and always on then it will automatically download all your updates and the like for you, without being prompted. That to me, is a good thing.

Kinect I’ve yet to sample, so I have no opinion on that one other than I’m not a tinfoil hat wearing weirdo

Mandatory installs is irritating though. Enough to put me off? We’ll see.

http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i52/5/4/26/frabz-Heres-a-shovel-Keep-digging-f24f32.jpg

#7 Is right, rumors talks about an “Always on connection”. It doesn’t mean it needs it to function, just that . I don’t see why people fear this rumor, this functionnality is included on Wii since 2006 !

It’s a good thing if the system updates itself when we are at work. And for the Kinect always watching, it’s a good thing too. We will be able to use it natively with all games and apps to navigate menus. And I don’t think that it will be watching during the console is in standby mode. And like on 360, your we’ll be able to desactivate the marketing collecting of Kinect in the settings menu.

15,16&moonwalker +1

but its ms’s attitude in the last few years that made me play less and less on the 360 which really became my main console for most of this gen. right now this is changing and i am playing more on ps3 again. i will watch the nextgen very closely. atm my gut tells me to go for ps4 but then…i dont know shit about nextbox yet. i really hate the freakin xbl ads though and i love ps+. also really like sonys new controller. sure the ms one will prolly also be great. next gen will like always be about games but this time it will also be a fight about subscription deals and what value they offer for the consumer. sonys direction looks more promising in that regard atm.

Moonwalk1982 bravo! !! The only one here with sense. Thank you. Look if anyone doesn’t like what Microsoft is doing don’t buy. Odds are if you didn’t buy a xbox or a 360 your not buying a Xbox720. So not much to say really. Buy or not they will do things they way they see fit.regardless if any of you disapprove. I love games . So I will buy all. Btw Lego city undercover for the wiiu is fun. But most never got the system because of so hate

Two things tht put me off.
1. Online subscription.
2. Mandatory full game installs.

The rest is debatable. These are all rumors anyway.
If xbox didnt have online subscription I would have bought a xbox360.
I already pay for my Internet, why should I pay extra just to play online. Its absurd. Principles Microsoft! You have none.

We’ll see.

If the box requires mandatory “installation” that means that the game is always online because some files will probably require internet connection to function. I mean that some files will be on MS Servers.

That’s the logic because I don’t see the reason to install games.

@melonbuster1
“But most never got the system because of so hate”

Because people are not stupid to buy worthless piece of shit from 2005 with kitchen sink that does not have games on it with shitty online service.

@22 I would have hoped by now that MS would have went with the Playstation Plus model where, if you wanted a subscription you could have one and receive some incentives. Personally, I don’t even notice the subscription anymore. I usually get a year of XBOX Live for around $35US through Amazon and then don’t even think about it for 12 months. But, I can see where it is a hassle and annoyance for a lot of people.

As for the installs- I install all my games on the hard drive anyway. Mainly because I have a 1st gen XBOX360 and its sounds like a jet taking off in my living room if I don’t.

In the end (just like now) I’ll probably end up with both systems anyway. The question is- which one will I prefer to invest my time and money in? Selling a console is not really what makes either company money. Its all about the games and the services.

It’s re-write from middle age news.

Brenna appears to be the only one saying the camera is only on.

The system is “always on”, but that’s definitely not the same thing. My Boxee is “always on” as well, but that’s to receive my “wake up” signal.

I haven’t read all the comments but many seem not to be as objective as they could be. However, I do love the impression some people seem to have that Microsoft is employing 100,000′s of people to sit in a tiny bunker watching what you do in your front room. You seem to forget that most of the world doesn’t give 2 shits about you. What you do is completely irrelevant. As has been mentioned, its illegal so therefore not going to be done. The system requires an always on connection. The camera is not ‘always on’ and life continues unabated.

Edit: As always, if the content I want is on the system, I will buy it. Read content btw, not games. My xbox is my media centre as well as games console so that is an important distinction.

I can understand the installation of games since Blu Rays are crap at reading stuff (just as long as it doesn’t take 8 hours to install a game, yes i’m looking at you Gran Turismo 5) and I have a rock solid internet connection but having Kinect mandatory and always on connection makes it hard for me to justify a purchase of the next Xbox, seems like a stupid idea.

Stuff like this make me lean towards the PS4 permanantly, even if Project Gotham 5 will be on it (which is probably the only launch game i’d want for any console)

Bad move Microsoft, unless you justify it in the price of the thing, which is seriously unlikely.

@24
Im actually a PSN+ member and got ME3 for free. I like the free games they offer. Like three free games per month?

I just became a psn+ recently and I like it. Its optional.

Nobody (outside of MS and, obviously, some devs) knows a single thing about Kinect 2.0, so how can people say that they don’t want it…?

For all you know, it could turn out to be a game changer.

For all you know, they could have voice commands down to a tee, so it may make navigating menus or selecting games as easy as saying a few words…

“Xbox on. Play last game.”

Sure, it could be the same useless (to core gamers) peripheral that the original Kinect is, but getting all worked up over potentially having to use something that you know nothing about is a bt silly.

If true, then THANK YOU MS! SERIOUSLY!
Now I can only buy ps4 and not worry about missing xbox offerings. One platform is more than enough if you are a completionist like me.

“Xbox on. Play last game.”

I really want to scream something like that. No wonder why Kinect was a failure on the PC when it was released for Windows.

@30
Come on you lazy ass with voice commands :p

What really would be awesome is if they perfect tht hologram shit with Kinect.
Tht might convince me but voice command hehe be more creative bro.

Wtf are ye all moaning about. Not being able to play straight from disc is annoying, but I’ve no issues with anything else.

Sure Kinect has to be plugged in but who says ye have to use it?

RELAX!!

I don’t see anyone complaining about the Kinect that comes with every PS4.

Double standards are fun!

Wow! this is exactly what I DONT WANT. Good job Microsoft, on making me uninterested in next gen. /TwoThumbsUp

Hope the rumors are false but seems to be there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. Kinect requirement, always on connection, games cannot be played from disk, system interaction that use the controller will be simplified to make them easier for noncore gamers, and also no mention if used games will be freely playable. And they’re bound to keep blocking free membership users from playing their multiplayer games, or accessing minor online in game content. Well it all adds up to a HUGE disappointment really. Myself I will definitely be jumping ship next gen, either to Sony PS4 or SteamBox. Still waiting to see more on the Sony console, but for the most part its sounding way better than Durango. Though still very worried about used games being freely playable without having to pay some sort of additional charge to allow it on PS4.

@woe
It’s not recycled – maybe re-enforcement, but the screen grabs are all new. See the linked article.

I’m not as anti a lot of this as most. I am online the vast majority of the time and a console designed around that is a good thing to some extent at least. The idea that retail games install to disc – if this means I don’t need the disc in the machine too (because of the onlineness) then that’s a good thing for me too. Yes there are disadvantages, but there are a load of advantages too.

Just as a point of reference, I can’t find anywhere that says that PS4 games don’t have a mandatory install, much like the PS3 has for years. So I’m sorry, but thats not a barrier to entry especially when:
“An installation system is being designed that will allow gamers to begin playing while the game is being installed on the hard drive rather than waiting until installation is complete”
Which I see as a huge improvement. And if you’re really that bothered about Kinect or the PS4eye thingy, point the fucking thing at the wall and never use it, or better still, don’t plug it in if it allows that. As #35 says, double standards are fun.

Edit: I’m feeling really quite pragmatic today, hence the more forceful statement, but seriously, in a month we’ll know a lot more facts about it, so lets wait and see.

@38

Some PS3 games don’t have a mandatory install – I know the Killzone ones for sure don’t.
Isn’t it to do with Bluray seek times anyway? That seems to be a physical limitation that can’t be overcome with software (aside from installing).

@39 Yeah that was as I understood it. Blu-ray drives have sped up quite a bit since then which will mitigate that problem (2x I think in PS3 without looking vs the 10x I own in my PC), but then the size of games has grown so that might offset the gain. I’ve always installed my 360 games anyway so no loss for me and I’ve been unlucky in that all PS3 games I’ve owned have required very lengthy installs (never played KZ though). At least heavy rain gave me something to make though . With my PC its been the case since forever so I’m accustomed to it.

Mandatory install is just bullshit. For ps3 at least that is. My HDD which was 120gb is not enough cause it was pretty much full after 2 years. Not to mention I deleted shit etc.

Thing is why should I delete my content to make space.

So this will install full games on the console. This thing might have a 1tb HDD or 500gb? At least with xbox you can easily replace it or upgrade?

I think this will boost the nexbot’s price and I dont want to buy a new hdd etc.

So for PS3 it will suck.

I actually like mandatory install. If enforced uniformly, it will improve load times drastically.
SSD would be very nice too, but they are too expensive.

@33:

With the amount of people going overboard and complaining about UI navigation on the 360, I’m sure that simple voice commands would be very high on many people’s list of preferred features.

It would also justify it being necessary for the console to function, rather than an optional accessory.

Besides, if the leaked specs are right, and there is hardly any latency, as well as finger tracking, it looks like there’s a lot of potential there.

@41
It’s easy – and cheap – to upgrade your PS3 HDD. A very good idea if you have just subbed to PS+ too.

I think size of games and convenience is meaning installation of games is going to be standard for NextGen consoles. They both have systems in place to start playing whilst installing – so it’s not a big issue. Optical media is fine as a delivery mechanism, it’s always been a bit rubbish for actually playing off though hasn’t it?

@41

Wut?
PS3 HDDs are waaaayyy cheaper to replace than 360s – 360s are proprietary, you can put in any 2.5″ SATA into a PS3 and it’ll work.

@43

“Durango on”
“start hologram”
“play last game”

Oh shit imagine a Virtual AI!

I like what you getting at.

@45
Oh I wasnt aware of tht I thought it was the other way around.

@44
I see well I still cant imagine what an amount of GB this will swirl around. Big ass HDD.

Well you two made me learn something useful.

It’s obvious the kinect will now be used to control the UI. In addition it will probably be used to display a real time video of you during online play or something if you want that.

As for mandatory installs this has been the case in the PC world for years. One because one DVD hasn’t got the capacity to run your average game and two because getting data off an optical drive is so bloody slow. HDD access and read times are massively better even where mechanical drives are involved. Why would you want a next gen console with last gen load times? It’s obvious this thing is going to have a 1TB drive at the very least in it so you can install a shit load of stuff and you might half fill it.

Never known such a bunch of moaning shits.

Didn’t people say the PS4 would feature similar features before it was shown?

Sony also still hasn’t confirmed a lot of features regarding the PS4, especially it’s online functions including adverts, how PS Plus will work, what things from PS3 / Vita are transferable, how exactly will Gaikai work…

Im still half expecting they reduce the amount of memory like they did with the Vita before launch.

At the moment, it’s still very much ‘wait and see’ time…

However, always on Kinect 2.0 is a big ‘no’ from me. Especially if it’s linked with info gathering for advertisers which it most certainly will be.

“However, always on Kinect 2.0 is a big ‘no’ from me. Especially if it’s linked with info gathering for advertisers which it most certainly will be.”

How?

Please explain how MS could use a camera for gathering info…

@MG
“Im still half expecting they reduce the amount of memory like they did with the Vita before launch.”

They didn’t.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-18-sony-why-ps-vita-has-512mb-of-ram

Though I do think Sony have something to prove still on delivering on promises. They got that horribly wrong with PS3 – over promising and under delivering. I expect them to do better with PS4, but doubts remain.