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North Korean propaganda uses Oblivion soundtrack this time, shows nuke going off

Wednesday, 20th February 2013 09:26 GMT By Dave Cook

North Korea’s propaganda arm Uriminzokkiri has released a new video this week, this time using music from The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. Perhaps more worrying however, are the images of President Obama and U.S. troops engulfed in flames, and the image of a nuke going off.

Kotaku has embedded the clip here. it uses this song from the Oblivion soundtrack, and makes for some troubled viewing. Chiefly because of this image:

Text translated by Global Dispatch apparently reads:

“Words spoken by the United States, a country that uses the law of jungle as the law of survival for fitness, is meaningless.

“As a result, North Korea’s high level nuclear test conducted against American imperialist invaders is a nuclear deterrent that protects our sovereignty.”

The clip follows another propaganda video that nicked scenes of New York City under attack from Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, along with some rather worrying anti-American text.

What do you make of the above.

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56 Comments

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  1. Dragon246

    @Dave,
    We can surely avoid useless propaganda political ads from a god-forsaken country for today at least, cant we ;)

    #1 1 year ago
  2. Samoan Spider

    More sabre-rattling from the isolated and increasingly desperate rogue state with eyes on world domination/elimination. But as they say, champagne taste, lager money.

    #2 1 year ago
  3. Beta

    Wonder if they have permission to use that soundtrack. Bethesda should sue.. :P

    #3 1 year ago
  4. Erthazus

    “Bethesda should sue..”

    North Korean parliament?
    LOL?

    #4 1 year ago
  5. Beta

    Was being sarcastic.

    LOL.

    #5 1 year ago
  6. RazorBladeJam

    Videogames are leading cause of thermonuclear war.

    Ban them all!

    #6 1 year ago
  7. BraveArse

    Of all the scary shit happening in the world today, this crap is by far the scariest. I remember the Cold War vividly, and honestly, maybe because I’m not a kid now, like i was then, these guys scare me far, far more.

    #7 1 year ago
  8. DSB

    Dey soh ronery!

    @7 I’d suggest researching it a bit closer. North Korea with the bomb is not great, but they’re not about to win any wars against anyone, and even their own allies won’t defend them.

    #8 1 year ago
  9. Cobra951

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mevxenJ6Mtc

    #9 1 year ago
  10. Samoan Spider

    @7 These guys aren’t the great bear and are being monitored as closely as can be. I wouldn’t find them scary yet. And there are mechanisms in place the world over to make sure anyone with nuclear ambitions can’t do anything too crazy. Besides, as DSB says, even their ‘allies’ (and I use the term loosely) like China won’t want them pissing too many people off and won’t defend them. But as with ‘Sum of all fears’ its not the country with loads of weapons but the little guy with one that you worry about.

    #10 1 year ago
  11. salarta

    I’m not sure how many people realize that North Korea being this provocative is likely connected to China being outed for their hacking efforts. You have two countries with close ties, and the people in power in North Korea probably saw that as an opening to be more openly hostile toward the United States without the risk of losing support from China.

    I say “the people in power” because I’m not convinced Kim Jong Un is truly in power. I think that the military wing of North Korea is entirely in control of policy in the country at this moment, and Kim Jong Un is only around to maintain the cult of personality that his family provides for easy swaying of the country’s masses. Basically, I think Kim Jong Un is presently a puppet dictator.

    #11 1 year ago
  12. stalepie

    They could do great harm to us with an EMP attack.

    #12 1 year ago
  13. DSB

    @11 Actually China is royally pissed at North Korea for blowing up nukes during Chinese national holidays and causing earthquakes within their territory.

    They’re not best buds, it’s a strategic relationship, and China is openly critisizing North Korea in their own papers.

    China and the US hacking eachother is a public secret anyway, it doesn’t really come as a surprise to anyone. What’s next, will they have spies working at their embassies too?! :P

    #13 1 year ago
  14. theevilaires

    North Korea has the 4th largest Army in the world right?

    #14 1 year ago
  15. YoungZer0

    They will probably all starve to death if we just leave them alone.

    #15 1 year ago
  16. theevilaires

    yea last I heard prisoners in those camps were eating small children. Its sad to sit back and know this is happening. Be thankful you weren’t born in N.K.

    #16 1 year ago
  17. YoungZer0

    Don’t tell me what to do.

    #17 1 year ago
  18. Erthazus

    @14, It has 4th largest Active army in the world + some nice reserve of 8 million peeps.
    Pretty much they are ready for some Action with someone.

    #18 1 year ago
  19. DSB

    @14 Right, just like Iraq had one of the worlds largest armies, before it was wiped out in a month or two.

    You can give a guy a uniform and a rifle and call him a soldier, but that doesn’t mean he’ll fight your war for you.

    Imaginary army for the lulz.

    #19 1 year ago
  20. nollie4545

    As if anyone takes any notice of these clowns. They are the definition of poverty, and their nuclear ‘arsenal’ is a side show compared to what the United states and Russia have in stock. If the information revolution continues at the pace it does, their own people will one day rise up and overthrow them, its like holding back the tide. Average citizens can only be conned and distracted from the truth for so long. The most potent force in the world today isn’t military, it’s social: Communications, Internet, Communications Satellites, TV, Radio, cell phones. Truth and freedom are like gravity.

    As for their military, a million soldiers who don’t want to be there are no match for 1000 motivated volunteers.

    #20 1 year ago
  21. YoungZer0

    Drone strikes. There, your army is gone.

    #21 1 year ago
  22. Erthazus

    @19, Ahh, DSB, as always a true patriot.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

    375K peeps with outdated hardware on all positions and US still lost a lot of people.
    8 years of fighting with Arabians that had Ak-47.

    Just like War in Vietnam where US troops run away in the end. Lol but now they are fighting with drones.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Abu_Ghraib_39.jpg

    Democracy at it’s finest.

    #22 1 year ago
  23. DSB

    @22 Oh no, not a wikipedia link!

    Here’s another one:

    “By the eve of the Invasion of Kuwait which led to the 1991 Persian Gulf War, the Army was estimated to number 1,000,000 men.”

    Again, soldiers on paper is not the same as soldiers on the battlefield.

    Thanks for playing though :)

    #23 1 year ago
  24. YoungZer0

    @22: Did they seriously misspell “Rapist”?

    #24 1 year ago
  25. nollie4545

    I don’t consider the invasion of Iraq a failure. One dictator nailed, a formerly corrupt rogue state now empowered with proper government with free elections and rights given to minorities. You think we should have left Saddam alone?? A number of dead Kurds might disagree with you.

    Anyone can happily sit on a chair in a warm, secure home in the West and criticise, when was the last time your family were arrested by the secret police and murdered in the middle of the night? When was the last time you saw a TV show where they were banned from critcising the government?

    #25 1 year ago
  26. DSB

    @25 Aside from the fact that the Iraq war deposed a dictator who wasn’t a threat to anyone, ignited a civil war, and effectively handed the country over to Iran, it was a great succes.

    #26 1 year ago
  27. YoungZer0

    Yep, that pretty much sums it up real nice.

    #27 1 year ago
  28. nollie4545

    ‘Wasn’t a threat to anyone’, are we talking about two different people? You’re talking about Saddam Hussein, right? The guy who ordered the use of chemical weapons on both his own people, and the innocent civilians of a neighbouring state? The guy who frequently ordered mass arrests, imprisonment without trial, torture and murders?

    You’re saying ‘he wasn’t a threat’ to anyone? You know, mustard gas isn’t a brand of dish washing liquid which stings your eyes a bit…

    I don’t know how else to summarise how wrong you are but 50,000 dead Kurds didn’t ‘like’ this.

    #28 1 year ago
  29. DSB

    @28 I’m not saying he wasn’t a bad guy, but he was only capable of killing his own people at the time, and it had been a good 15 years since he last gassed any of them.

    That’s a very weak argument for a fullscale invasion.

    I’m not saying I don’t like the idea of policing the world, but there were and are a lot worse places than Iraq. North Korea for example.

    And even if we suppose that a head of state being a bad guy is enough to warrant an invasion, you still have a responsibility to win the war, and not help your enemies, which they also failed to do.

    As for the people, instead of having secret police hassling them, they suddenly had their own neighbours trying to do it instead, and car bombs blowing up when they were shopping for food. There’s a reason why those guys didn’t warm to the occupation.

    They couldn’t even bring gas down by a dollar. Come on, do you consider that a worthwhile effort? They fucked up, simple as.

    #29 1 year ago
  30. YoungZer0

    @28: Do we really need to bring up drone strikes, a lot of them on civilians (two of them US Citizens), the use of White Phosphor and Guantanamo Bay (yep, still there).

    “The guy who frequently ordered mass arrests, imprisonment without trial, torture and murders?”

    Do you mean Bush or Obama, I’m really not sure.

    #30 1 year ago
  31. Erthazus

    @24, LOOOOOL… :D

    @DSB, 1991 is not 2003 and

    Have you read what is after that? “Although it was said at the time in “”"Western media”"” that Iraqi troops numbered approximately 545,000 (even 600,000) today most experts think that both the qualitative and quantitative descriptions of the Iraqi army at the time were exaggerated, as they included both temporary and auxiliary support elements. Many of the Iraqi troops were also young, under-resourced and poorly trained conscripts. Hussein did not trust the army; among counterbalancing security forces was the Iraqi Popular Army.”

    In 1991 which has nothing to do with 2003 year anyway. Okay then, good luck.

    @nollie4545, “One dictator nailed”

    and country left in ruins. Some of the beautiful areas destroyed. People there have much bigger issues with medicine, food and other stuff than before.
    Saddam was not the prettiest guy in the world, but that does not mean that some other country should envade another for a reason that was a lie from the beggining (biological weapons and so on). There are a lot of diplomatic solutions to the problem.

    People from USA died there for no reason at all and a lot of money was spent and US troops still trying to get out of there. It’s been 8 years since the conflict. It’s a failure.

    Anyway, what’s done is done. It’s a history.

    #31 1 year ago
  32. Erthazus

    “You’re talking about Saddam Hussein, right? The guy who ordered the use of chemical weapons on both his own people, and the innocent civilians of a neighbouring state? The guy who frequently ordered mass arrests, imprisonment without trial, torture and murders?”

    Need I to remind you what country dropped two nukes at Japan?

    Also, that stuff about chemical weapons was debunked by president Obama himself in the campaign. So, go figure.

    anyway, I’m done. Interesting topic, but it’s about OBLIVION SOUNDTRACK!

    #32 1 year ago
  33. DSB

    @31 I was always referring to the First Gulf War. That’s when Iraq had the 4th largest army in the world on paper (duh!) just as North Korea is estimated to have the world’s 4th largest army on paper now.

    There’s no difference.

    If we actually attacked North Korea I doubt they’d have much more than 200.000 of that million actually fight, exactly as it happened for Iraq in 1990.

    #33 1 year ago
  34. nollie4545

    Oh so the United States is the new evil is it? I can’t watch CNN 10 minutes without those damn Americans playing another round of propaganda and threatening to nuke all their copious enemies. That nasty President Obama, must be pure evil, the fact he was freely elected and Americans have freedoms so excessive that they are able to eat themselves to death and treat firearms like toys doesn’t come into it, of course. Oh, gas prices get a mention, lol, like you have ever paid the real price for fuel, probably never will. In fact, you guys complain bitterly about taxation yet pay in real terms next to nothing.

    Seriously, if you guys are so tired of living in the nasty, decadent, corrupt and evil West, nothing to stop you moving to Iran, North Korea, go on ahead. Maybe when I’m walking down the street and my own government decides to use poison gas on me, or the secret police abduct everyone in my family at midnight and dump all their bodies in the nearest River, I’ll change my mind and follow you.

    Drone strikes are a doctrine which inherently limits civilian casualties. Are you suggesting we use carpet bombing or poison gas instead? And how exactly would you like terror suspects to be treated? I mean if Gitmo doesn’t meet your high standards, how about some North Korean gulags? Auschwitz style barracks perhaps?

    Trouble with Americans is that you never see enough of the rest of the world to realise quite how good your country is.

    5000 lives to free a country was worth it in my mind.

    And don’t even start with the two nukes on Japan. They saved more lives than you realise.

    #34 1 year ago
  35. RazorBladeJam

    I don’t blame CoD/BF for increased gun crime… But it’s greatly responsible for the increased number of amateur military specialists, ready to share their insight.

    #35 1 year ago
  36. DSB

    @34 The US isn’t evil, it just makes mistakes. In the case of the Iraq war it was an unusually huge mistake.

    Europeans can’t exactly talk. They sent thousands of soldiers to Yugoslavia just so they could (literally) watch tens of thousands of people being slaughtered right in front of them without firing a shot to protect them.

    Personally I think that was sick and perverted. Certainly worse than being reckless and uninformed. We even allowed our own soldiers to be fired upon without permission to shoot back. Those who did shoot back were reprimanded.

    Clinton wanted to bomb the responsible parties back then, but the European allies blocked those measures.

    At the end of the day, no ones hands are clean.

    #36 1 year ago
  37. nollie4545

    You can’t have it both ways. One minute you claim you don’t want the US to be the policeman of the world, another minute you complain they don’t act fast or effectively enough.

    The Europeans have never been a paragon of excellence in any respect, I can assure you of that, nor have I ever claimed we have done anything right. But when we were in the former Yugoslavia, both the UK and US wanted to do much much more but were prevented from doing so by piss-poor UN mandates which were eventually soundly ignored.

    The Iraq war was not a mistake. It might have cost us 5000 lives but it was not a mistake. By saying it was a mistake you are basically stating that freedom comes at a price which isn’t worth paying and I strongly disagree with that. I would say that freedom is worth any price and that no country should ever stop looking to further it.

    It is criminal that we are all sat here fully able to argue about this, free from persecution, whilst millions are stuck in a huge open air prison which is North Korea where they have no rights, no say and no freedom. They are prisoners.

    #37 1 year ago
  38. DSB

    Actually we all should be able to have it both ways. I don’t think it’s too much to ask of any leader of that he not only act, but act with wisdom.

    Acting without thinking doesn’t get you anywhere. Nor does thinking without acting. You need to do both.

    #38 1 year ago
  39. nollie4545

    You have to smile really. It hasn’t occurred to anyone in North Korea; the irony of using music stolen from corrupt capitalists in the West in a propaganda film.

    I liked the graphical depiction of their nuke, too, I’m glad they showed it exploding so clearly or I would never have guessed what it was. Some kind of new lampshade? Oh no, an exploding lampshade. I get it now.

    Maybe we should show our own propaganda film. One showing the Trident armed submarine about 300 miles off their coast with about a 100 nukes on board.

    #39 1 year ago
  40. RazorBladeJam

    ^ Captain Price at the helm…

    #40 1 year ago
  41. nollie4545

    Unfortunately, when it comes to life and death decisions, it is quite easy to second guess after the event. Altering the results mind, is rather more difficult. I find it a bit worrying, however, that people like President Obama can’t act on his best guess, without worrying about what his own citizens might think. If you can’t trust the guy, it does rather raise the question as to why you elected him in the first place.

    #41 1 year ago
  42. YoungZer0

    @34: Maybe you stop watching the Mainstream Media and look online for real news instead? I mean Obama does keep threatening Iran. You know, the same Iran that had an actual democracy until the US decided to fuck that up with a nice coup d’état? You realize that Iran has lost some of its nuclear scientists in the last two or three years to assassinations?

    I’m not saying it’s mainly the US, could be Mossad as well, but you don’t need to wonder why that country might be getting a little bit pissed. Nope, they don’t hate you because they hate you, and they certainly don’t hate you because of your ‘freedom’.

    “Drone strikes are a doctrine which inherently limits civilian casualties.”

    Again, stop watching the Mainstream Media. Limits civilian casualties. Give me a fucking break.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wech_Baghtu_wedding_party_airstrike

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deh_Bala_wedding_party_airstrike

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan

    And those numbers aren’t even precise, (at least not if they come from the US Government) as the US classifies any adult male as a militia.

    “Are you suggesting we use carpet bombing or poison gas instead?”

    How about going there on foot, you started the war you have to pay the price. And if the price is too high (too many soldiers dying) don’t start a fucking war.

    “I mean if Gitmo doesn’t meet your high standards, how about some North Korean gulags? Auschwitz style barracks perhaps?”

    Ah, so just because you’re not the worst of the worst, you’re the best? That’s not how it works.

    “5000 lives to free a country was worth it in my mind.”

    Again, stop watching Mainstream Media. Only a child would think as black as white as you do. Nobody was ‘freed’ here.

    “And don’t even start with the two nukes on Japan. They saved more lives than you realise.”

    Yep, destroying 2 major civilian cities saved lives. I know, it’s war after all and in war civilian targets are oka- wait what? But i already know that you think that’s a good argument.

    I bet Saddam used the same argument on the many kurds he killed.

    You have to keep in mind that a lot of what the US does ONLY serves the US. What did Europe gain from Saddams fall? Or Asia? Or the middle east? I know they have a civil war there now. They didn’t have that before.

    If you really want to clean up the whole planet, why stop with Iraq? Burma needs some cleaning too and in most parts of Africa do as well. Come on now, don’t stop! Free us all from those oppressive regimes.

    #42 1 year ago
  43. DSB

    @41 Obama has authorized quite a few risky operations in Pakistan, Libya and Somalia among other places. Any one of those could’ve turned out quite poorly for him.

    A lot of people fault George Bush not just for the Iraq War, but also for failing to realize that North Korea were building the bomb.

    The time to attack was during his administration. He picked the wrong target.

    #43 1 year ago
  44. nollie4545

    Of course you have to wonder why they make propaganda films in the first place. They don’t fool any of us for a second, which must mean they are designed for the consumption of their own citizens. And why would they do this? Well it is because they feel threatened. Not threatened by us, but threatened from within, by their own people, who are at present blissfully unaware of the real world outside the walls of their prison. The information revolution and the shrinking of the global village means that they won’t be able to rely on keeping their citizens like mushrooms forever. This is exactly what triggered the Arab spring. The dictators in the world are the ones who are starting to have trouble sleeping at night.

    #44 1 year ago
  45. YoungZer0

    @44: “Of course you have to wonder why they make propaganda films in the first place. They don’t fool any of us for a second, which must mean they are designed for the consumption of their own citizens. And why would they do this? Well it is because they feel threatened. Not threatened by us, but threatened from within, by their own people, who are at present blissfully unaware of the real world outside the walls of their prison.”

    So I’m guessing that’s why films like ‘Act of Valor’ exist. Interesting.

    #45 1 year ago
  46. nollie4545

    It is plain fact that using two nukes on Japan during WW2 saved more lives than anything. Once the Japanese saw that, they surrendered. If not, we would have carried on firebombing them (which killed way more people than either nuke) and invading one step at a time and having thousands of sailors, airmen and soldiers killed for every mile gained. They would never have surrendered, US marines would have had to basically kill every Japanese person one after the other, dropping the bomb shortened the war massively. The threat of further bombs was plenty enough and understandably so.

    I’m not about to argue about tragedies. But then I’m not about to argue 5000 lives were wasted: you are. Saddam had been killing and persecuting hundreds of thousands of people over the course of decades. 5000 Western lives were lost. Fine men and women who volunteered to fight in the name of freedom and democracy. No member of the armed forces understands or values those two words better. But we can’t scream bloody murder about 5000 of our own people when 50,000 Kurds were wiped out like insects. The US didn’t stand by in WW2, and they didn’t stand by idly now. Thank God that they did something.

    You say I should volunteer and go on foot and fight for freedom. I don’t quite understand your reasoning. I’m the one saying we did a good thing. If I didn’t believe in our cause then I would not support troops being sent or my tax dollars being spent. At no point have I said I was against either. I might think every bullet fired and every hellfire dropped is a blow in the name of freedom. If that is the price, I pay it gladly. It would be nice if we could fight wars and never have any casualties. But that isn’t going to happen. And it didn’t happen. But you’re the one basically saying that all those brave souls died for nothing, I disagree. And I am thankful that someone somewhere somewhen was happy to volunteer and pay the highest price, because right now I’m sat on my bed in the warm, and not in a prison camp.

    #46 1 year ago
  47. YoungZer0

    “It is plain fact that using two nukes on Japan during WW2 saved more lives than anything.”

    Right. Let’s repeat that, you saved lives by killing thousands upon thousands of civilians. Got it.

    “Once the Japanese saw that, they surrendered.”

    Apparently it wasn’t so effective, otherwise why did they have to ‘see’ it twice?

    The fact is Japan was already at it knees when Fat Man and Little Boy hit the earth. Otherwise why were they forced to use Kamikaze Tactics?

    You can argue all you want about the use of the Atom Bomb. But you can’t, YOU-CAN-NOT argue about using it on civilian cities. That was mass murder and nothing more. Those people were innocent. Men, Women, Children. No military base near them. If you really think it was totally fine to kill those innocent people, you’re a piece of shit, simple as that. Don’t fucking argue with me about that.

    “But then I’m not about to argue 5000 lives were wasted: you are.”

    Huh.

    “Saddam had been killing and persecuting hundreds of thousands of people over the course of decades.”

    So did the US, so what gives?

    “5000 Western lives were lost.”

    Puh, thank god you added the ‘western’ after the number there, nearly though you were going to talk about those worthless foreign people. Everybody knows their lives are worth nothing. Let’s not talk about the many Iraqis that got killed during the ‘successful’ Iraq War.

    “Fine men and women who volunteered to fight in the name of freedom and democracy.”

    Victim of Propaganda.

    “No member of the armed forces understands or values those two words better.”

    I’ll ask my brother about that.

    “The US didn’t stand by in WW2, and they didn’t stand by idly now.”

    Erm, they actually did. Remember it was Japan who pushed them into WW2.

    “You say I should volunteer and go on foot”

    I did no such thing.

    “and fight for freedom.”

    Lawl.

    What I’m saying is: Don’t complain about US casualties when you start a war. Don’t go and use Drone strikes that will only result in more terror as you can’t avoid civilian casualties. Drones will never reach the precision of an eye on the ground.

    Don’t go to war if you can’t handle the consequences.

    “But you’re the one basically saying that all those brave souls died for nothing, I disagree.”

    They died for a bunch of lies. Remember when the US Government said that Saddam Hussein arms in arms with Al Qaeda? Lawl. Oh and let’s not forget those terrible weapons of mass destruction. The same Iran has … or hasn’t. Hey let’s find out by invading, we still have people like you who can excuse every major failure.

    “because right now I’m sat on my bed in the warm, and not in a prison camp.”

    Because we all know Saddam was out to get you. Can never have too much paranoia.

    #47 1 year ago
  48. DSB

    War is hell. That’s not exactly news. If you start one, you had better make sure you’re gonna finish it.

    The fact that the Japanese did use kamikazes was pretty much a hint that they weren’t going to surrender.

    The first nuke also wasn’t enough to make them stop fighting. It was dropped on the 6th of August, the second came on the 9th of August, and Japan didn’t show any intention of surrender until the 15th of August.

    Apparently they weren’t too bright. Nuke-joke.

    #48 1 year ago
  49. YoungZer0

    @48: I’ve seen enough documentaries about the subject to know that it didn’t even matter if they had surrendered or not. They were running out of ammo, weapons, planes and people. Which is kind of why they had to use Kamikaze tactics. At end most of the planes were barely able to get off ground.

    Also I recommend everyone to watch the documentary “White Light/Black Rain”:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Light/Black_Rain:_The_Destruction_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

    #49 1 year ago
  50. DSB

    @49 I’ve seen it, it doesn’t address the military aspects of the time, which is that the japanese were still fighting at least three days after the first nuclear explosion, and failed to surrender until the 15th of August.

    If they wanted to, they could’ve spared their people by doing so, they knew they were losing the war long before the bomb was even finished. They didn’t, and they paid the price, along with the US, Soviet and Chinese people who died as a result of their suicidal stubbornness.

    It’s terrible that those people had to die, but that’s war. We all have to suffer for our leaders mistakes, sometimes to the most extreme extent.

    #50 1 year ago
  51. YoungZer0

    @50: Yeah, I know. I just think this documentary is a nice reality check for all those people who seem to forget about the consequences of Fat Man and Little Boy.

    To me that documentary shows that sometimes the end doesn’t justify the means. Some of the images and interviews were pretty grim. I remember my girlfriend had to run out of the room when we were watching this. Can’t say I blame her though, I think they were showing the burnings on ‘surviving’ children, when she ran out.

    As I said, I have watched some other documentaries on the ‘fighting’ subject and when you listen to some of the Japanese soldier that one documentary interviewed, you really don’t think they would’ve been able to last another month or two. Simply because they really didn’t have enough equipment. Most Kamikaze planes fell apart mid-air.

    #51 1 year ago
  52. DSB

    @51 It is awful, especially the cancer.

    It’s also fair to say that it wasn’t purely a military action. It was also about showing the world what the US could do, and maybe to some sick extent a science experiment. But then it was also the first and last time it was ever used.

    I think Dresden was terrible as well. There were no military targets, it was just a war of annihilation at that point. Things escalate.

    Fact is, the Japanese were able to move 10 divisions into Kyushu at the end of July. Possibly 300.000 troops. They were offered surrender by the allies on July 26, and refused.

    If they had just a bit of sense, and taken that offer, it wouldn’t have happened.

    At the end of the day, your enemy isn’t your friend. He’s not going to spare you because he’s a nice person. If you really want to be annihilated, you will be annihilated.

    I think reading about how the Japanese acted in South-East Asia during the war has dulled me a bit on my sympathy for that people.

    #52 1 year ago
  53. salarta

    @13: I wouldn’t mean to suggest that China is pleased with North Korea conducting nuclear tests and during holidays at that, only that North Korea likely felt that its status as one of China’s allies combined with China possibly feeling threatened by the accusations of hacking (regardless of if they’re true or false) meant that North Korea felt they could get away with being more provocative. It would be following an assumption that China needs to keep its allies close. As you said, a strategic relationship.

    And yeah, it would be pretty naive to think countries weren’t spying on each other. Just about all countries have and need spies so that at the very least, they can be aware of any potential threats to governments and civilians.

    #53 1 year ago
  54. Cobra951

    @47: What nuking those two cities did was persuade the Doves to bring the Hawks under control. When the threat to the future of the Emperor became credible, the real, dormant power in Japan stepped forward and clamped down on the military. (If you need more details, they are out there in spades.) As a result, the war in the Pacific truly ended, without having a generations-long war of fanaticism–you know, like people who blow themselves up to take out a target (with or without an airplane). Brutal, but effective.

    #54 1 year ago
  55. YoungZer0

    “It was also about showing the world what the US could do”

    I think ‘Would’ do is more precise.

    “and maybe to some sick extent a science experiment.”

    I think that’s a fair point, before this we didn’t have any research on the effects of radioactivity.

    “But then it was also the first and last time it was ever used.”

    Let’s hope so.

    “He’s not going to spare you because he’s a nice person.”

    He might. He might. I’m pretty sure you know about the ‘Christmas truce’ during WWI. In the end it’s whats seperates us from the beast.

    “I think reading about how the Japanese acted in South-East Asia during the war has dulled me a bit on my sympathy for that people.”

    Totally understandable, but then again I have to go back to the fact that the targets were civilian cities. That’s like saying “I don’t care about 9/11 because of what the US did in Vietnam.”

    It’s a very toxic mindset if you ask me. It gets us nowhere and the hate will never end.

    #55 1 year ago
  56. DSB

    @55 The US isn’t in Vietnam right now, and I think people would look at 9-11 very differently if it happened during that period, even if they were never as brutal in Vietnam as Japan was in Asia. Some believe they killed 30 million people, that’s 30 times the bodycount of Vietnam.

    In WW1 both parties were pretty evenly matched. They weren’t in the case of Japan and the US. Japan was defeated the moment they lost at Midway, everything following that only served to drive the point home.

    It’s worth considering that in WW1, the Germans were never militarily defeated. They were losing, and they surrendered, deposing the Kaiser because the people starved.

    The Japanese were offered a chance to do that, they refused, and as a result the allies responded by laying waste to their cities. Using the atomic bomb is cruel, but the Japanese simply weren’t rational. They wanted to commit mass suicide, right up until the point where they saw what that truly meant.

    #56 1 year ago