DmC: Devil May Cry sales target slashed by 800k

@97
It makes sense that Vergil would talk in an odd manner as he’s in an odd universe that is unlike our own and his manner of speech fits well with his character.

For youngzero
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0a_QlurNZU
Even this British guy says that voice acting is a turd.
We’re brothers, have to roll.
So…guess what…it’s not me, AFTER ALL.

@100
Yeah, your video just described what I said.

I never doubted you could do it, but to do it you have to be in Gunslinger and mixing up your moves while taunting. And the SSS doesn’t stick, it goes down unlike DmC’s. What’s the point of the video?

@100
So give an example of these moves please.

@100 Citing RDD as a legit tactic is the same as saying all DMC3 bosses are easy if you sit there and spam Spiral cancelling. Both are glitches that were not intended by the devs, though Distortion is a lot more interesting as a mechanic than spiral cancelling is.

@103 There’s barely any variation whatsoever.

The point is the original games aren’t infallible. They could be just as easily manipulated if you knew how.

@104 Nero’s back, forward charge moves.

“It was obviously there was betrayal going on from the trailer. “We are brothers, after all Dante.”

Vergi never said that. And what about the people who didn’t watch the trailers?

“even beyond that it was kind of clear Vergil wasn’t up to much good and he was a cold guy before his rifle abortions.”

Nope, it wasn’t. It was clear that he had different methods, but none of that hinted at him looking to rule humanity. At the end he could still have said “Welp, glad that’s finally sorted out, let’s get home.”

“Him being willing to abandon Kat at every turn without a hint of regret and Phineas saying “Who will replace Mundus?””

Again, he could’ve thought that Kat served her purpose and that’s it. Or he was ready to sacrifice a few for the many.

Phineas said that and we could think there are other demons, just waiting for Mundus to fall, so they can take his place. You know, sequel material.

“The abortion scene wasn’t was unnecessary.”

Oh for fucks sake, stop crying about it. It’s a fucking demon monster baby and it was completely necessary to lure Mundus out. If you can’t deal with it; fine, your problem.

“So you agree that it was a cheap way to build up tension and it made Vergil look like an idiot? Glad we’re on the same page.”

Yes and no.

“He could’ve easily gotten out of the situation and come for Dante when he actually had some kind of strategy.”

Or maybe he was mad with power? So over-confident that he risked it all?

Exactly like OLD Vergil! Mind blown!

“I’m talking from a story perspective here.”

But this is where gameplay gets important, if you lose against Vergil he wins. It all depends on you! Let’s say the fight wouldn’t have happen, you wouldn’t be happy either. Because Vergil and Dante need to be enemies.

“So Capcom makes Ninja Theory’s developer diaries with their voice actors? That makes sense.”

Hey, they did say it was a close collaboration!

“Yes, they never tried to have a very serious or Shakespearean story. They kept it fun for the most part.”

… and you see this as good? Okay!

“That’s pretty much what he did. The scene lasted for about 30 seconds of serious emotion so I still don’t know why you’re so hung up on it.”

And i doubt you ever will.

@106 he’s cycling between about 5-6 moves and taunting. There’s a lot of variation going on there if you actually know what he’s doing, which you clearly don’t.

@106
There is. He’s using Twosome Time, Rain Storm, Charge Shot, Rapid Shot and taunting in between to pump up his style rank.

I never claimed they were. I don’t see how this video really shows much, other than taunting buffs up your style rank. Are you seriously implying this is anywhere close to this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNyNX0jY7aA

@107 Exactly like old Vergil? Lolwat. Vergil was never mad with power, and took every action he made with measured thought. He was ambitious and wanted power, true, but he wasn’t overconfident nor irrational. He got frustrated once or twi CE, true, but never to the point of doing something outright stupid.

@109 I never said it was bad, I said it was easily manipulated if you wanted to.

The DmC system is entirely different anyway. Sure, you can manipulate the game into SSS easily, but you’ll get fuck all points by the end of the level.

@110 Ell ooh ell, dissecting Vergil’s character. He was a contrived “honourable” villain that has been done a million times over in anime.

@102, Hillarious.

combat system in this game is just atrocious. The worst in Hack and slash games to be honest.

and with Unreal engine it’s just even worse.

@111 Dude you get a shitload of points by doing that. SSS style end level rank is easy if you keep doing that same combo and/or spamming Overdrive.

Ed: ell oh ell simplifying a character to a cliche, 10/10 argument bro

@100 that video take more skill than DmC SSS video
i mean come on..
even that E&B + taunt SSS takes more effort than 6 shot kabooley + demon dodge + devil trigger for instant SSS [kills 8/10 of boss's health too]

Ok, Ireland Michael…since in DevilMayCry3 you can get an SSS that easily, I give you 2 days to record a video of YOU doing that and put it in youtube.
Even a crappy phone video will do, we don’t need an HD video, and asking good quality would be an excuse to not do it.
I even give you this guide to read so it will be easier for you to do it.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/930014-devil-may-cry-3-special-edition/faqs/40790
I already tell you that I’m not able to do that because it’s not as easy as you think.
IF you win I’ll leave this site, if you don’t accept or don’t pull out the video, you must acknowledge that you spoke for days about a game you don’t even know.
Deal?

“Vergil never said that.”
He said something like that, I can dig it up if you want.
“It was clear he had different methods but none of them hinted to wanting to rule.”
I never said it did hint to him wanting to rule. I said it hinted to him being a general prick and it serves the exact same point the abortion scene does.
“Stop crying about it she’s a demon.”
The issue is how the scene is portrayed though. Lilith doesn’t act like a demon when she’s shot. She’s standing there crying and shivering as she walks before she’s shot in the stomach and then killed. It paints a very gruesome scene and I’m not shedding tears over Lilith. My issue is that it seems entirely there for shock value. Or as you say its telling us something about Vergil we already knew. There’s a reason I’m not complaining about the baby boss fight. While disgusting it wasn’t painted in such a morally disgusting way. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want everything black and white. Gray areas are fine if they actually do something with it other than pure shock value.
“Or he went mad with power and over-confident!”
Except that’s barely shown at all. In fact Dante just had to save his sorry self from Mundus. He’s shown to be ambitious at that point in time, but not an idiot. I don’t see why his brilliant mind suddenly vanished because plot.
“Gameplay perspective.”
There’s also not a lot of tension when the fight is ridiculously easy. So even on that front it falls flat.
“You see that as good? Okay!”
Well, yes. It succeeded it what it was trying to do. I don’t think Devil May Cry 3 is a good story, no and I’ve never claimed such. I just think it handled its story a lot better than DmC did.

@110: I meant to say driven mad by his LUST for Power.

http://youtu.be/OkShamoO7eQ

He literally says “I NEED MORE POWER”

@117: And? He’s quite rational and explains his logic quite clearly.

‘Without power, you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself.’

Now remember that his entire motivation and worldview stems from being helpless as he watched his mothers murder, and…

Did I ever mentioned that Vergil using Yamato on the hell gate looks like Harry Potter?

@115 Sure, when you post up videos of you getting those crazy SSS’s in DmC.

Seriously kiddo, I don’t need to prove jack to you. Even you know that DmC3 video is low level gameplay.

@117, Deep characterisation right there, isn’t it? It’s practically SHAKESPEARIAN!

@118, Now remember that his entire motivation and worldview stems from being helpless as he watched his mothers murder, and…

So pretty much the same as DmC’s Nero then, huh? Except Vergil in DmC actually took action instead of practising his audition for “Expositions ‘R Us” in every scene he featured in.

@109
Not nearly as easily as DmCs. You don’t even have to try to manipulate DmC’s scale, just by attacking you’ll get SSS most of the time because the weapons provide such crowd control and the enemies have such big hitboxes.

As for Nero’s moves you can’t spam those to beat a boss. Even if you can you won’t beat the boss nearly as easily or as quickly as this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q49-UUoxGY

Keep in mind that’s Dante Must Die Mode.

You’ll only get SSS with his charge if you have a maxed out gauge too. And maxing out the gauge can’t really be done in the middle of combat. It’s not nearly comparable to demon dodge. Hell, you don’t even need demon dodge for a quick SSS.

Even then I don’t know why we’re talking about Nero. He’s for new players and he’s not terrible deep or complex. Dante is for the veterans of the franchise and people who want deeper combat. The issue is that DmC doesn’t have a Dante, so the skill ceiling is ridiculously low.

@120 Shit son that’s not hard at all. Give him a real challenge, like doing it only with his feet.

@121 by gauge you mean exceed right? You DO know what MAX-ACT is right?

@116:

“He said something like that, I can dig it up if you want.”

You do that, but i know it wasn’t Vergil who said it. It was Dante.

“I said it hinted to him being a general prick and it serves the exact same point the abortion scene does.”

Dunno how to say this but … being a prick and killing an unborn demon child are two very different things.

“She’s standing there crying and shivering as she walks before she’s shot in the stomach and then killed. It paints a very gruesome scene”

Good, that’s what it’s supposed to do. You’re supposed to feel disgusted by Vergil’s action. Don’t you get it? This is THE Scene. Before that Vergil was just a guy who was ready to sacrifice a few people for the greater good, but now? NOW we know he’s fucked up. That he would do ANYTHING, anything do win!

You might not like the scene, but you can’t say it’s not effective. And it is definitely not just were for shock value. It defined the character.

“There’s also not a lot of tension when the fight is ridiculously easy.”

That i can agree on, the fight was wayyy too easy. All the boss fights were. But that seems to be a problem with modern games in general.

@123
Yes by gauge I mean exceed. MAX-Act requires perfect timing.

@124 if he’d do anything to win why didn’t he cheat during his boss fight instead of fighting you fairly?

@118:

“Without power, you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself.”

Yeah, very subtle. I get it, he’s blaming himself because he couldn’t protect his mommy, but guess what? She’s DEAD! There is no one for him to protect anymore, so why does he care again?

@120: Oh, no doubt, it’s beautiful. Dat acting alone.

@126 Because he actually cared about his brother? Why is this hard to understand? Vergil’s methods might have been shocking, but he wasn’t a complete asshole. Dante simply wasn’t willing to let Vergil do what he wanted to do, because that would have fucked everyone over.

First rule of storytelling: Show, don’t tell.

I learned more about Old Vergil’s character in five seconds of him shooting that woman in the chest than I ever did in 20 scenes of Old Vergil prattling on in DMC3.

I’m not claiming either of them are Shakesperian, but god knows DmC at least has a *basic* grasp on the process of actual storytelling and characterisation, which is more than can be said for 99% of the games released nowadays.

@126: He used a double and teleported himself. I’d say that’s pretty much cheating.

“It was Dante who said it, not Vergil.”
Okay? You still get my point.
“Being a prick and killing a-”

Killing the unborn demon-baby according to you showed he was an ends justify the means kind of guy and whatever. Him abandoning Kat pretty much does the same thing except there’s no pointless shock value. Do you see where I’m coming from now?
“That’s what you’re supposed to fee-”
I already knew Vergil would do this and that he was willing to do things like this though. He already showed he barely cared about Kat so again, this scene only shows us what we already know along with pointless shock value.

The character was already defined, and defining him in such a way is hamfisted.

@127 Nero is heavily implied to be his son. Which means he had a wife and kid during DMC3.

@128
Oh man, he cared so much that he tried to murder Dante after about 30 seconds of discussion over the topic. I sure can see how the decision was tearing him up.

@120
“Except Vergil in DmC actually took action instead of practising his audition for “Expositions ‘R Us” in every scene he featured in.”
Hahahahaha, oh wow. This statement is just dripping with irony.

@129 The double and teleporting are roughly analogous to Donte’s Devil Trigger (Vorg even has very similar effects) and the totally-not-devil-bringer. Its like saying that his blade vortex thing is cheating. They’re his innate skills, not a brilliant plan set up ahead of time.

@122
Look, the only game I platinumed is Bayonetta, I put like 140 hours playing the game and am so far from doing crazy stuff.
I put 50 hours in DevilMayCry4, don’t know how many in 3+3SE AND…I’m not sure I can put an SSS like in that DMC3 video.
It’s fun that Michael sees it as easy and at the same times he enjoys the combat in DmC…
Anyway, he said he doesn’t have to prove anything…
Lack of action speaks as much as actions.

The two main reasons that DmC is selling worse than Capcom expected are 1) they tried to force ideas that constitute a new IP onto an existing IP and didn’t have the good sense to just make a new IP like Hideki Kamiya did, and 2) insulting the history of a franchise and its fans through narcissistic remarks is a good way to make people not want to buy your product even if it’s the best thing ever.

Though there’s one more thing to mention. Much as I would like to leave it at “They failed to reach a reasonable level of sales due to the above issues,” I think that realistically, part of the problem is that Capcom puts their expected sales projection numbers too high. They keep expecting that every single game they make based on an existing IP regardless of quality, whether or not the game is at all appropriate for the characters and IP, or any other factors is guaranteed to make record-breaking sales. It could just be that I have my own misgivings with several of their high-profile projects lately, but I think a lot of their decisions over the past year have been severely damaging to perception of both the company and the games they put out.

@133 wait he actually said that?

-looks up-

AHAHAHAHA OH WOW HE DID. Jesus Christ what is wrong with you people? Don’t you know anything about either of the things we’re talking about?

@135 I also enjoyed DMC3. Your point?

I’ll fully conceded that no, DMC isn’t as good as as Devil May Cry 3. Then again… from a gameplay perspective, what is? Bayonetta is probably the only spectacle fighter I would put above it.

That doesn’t make DmC a bad game.

Itsuno had no interest in pursuing the franchise further, and pretty much every other creative talent that used to be involved in the franchise already departed Capcom for greener pastures. The company has barely anyone of any discernible talent left.

“Lack of action speaks as much as actions.”

Lets see your videos of your SSSing your way through the whole of DmC then.

@138 Ninja Gaiden.

@130:

No, i think you’re being too simple here.

There is a difference between being ready to sacrifice your own people for the lives of many and killing and unborn child so you can piss off the demon lord.

Also Kat knew what she was getting herself into. They were at war, sacrifices had to be made.

“I already knew Vergil would do this and that he was willing to do things like this though.”

How? Because he was ready to sacrifice his own people? What if he follows the Nietzsche way of thinking? You know, “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.” and all that.

You can’t simple say “Oh he’s ready to sacrifice Kat, he would kill babies.”

@131: OR Maybe he just slept with a prostitute without a condom on his way to the tower?

@140 lel

@138
While DMC4 fell short with its backtracking nonsense the combat system was very refined. It was a big step up from DMC3. Ideally when you’re continuing a franchise you want to keep tweaking and going up. Then DmC came and kicked us back to square 1.

There’s also Ninja Gaiden Black and God Hand.

Obsess much?

@140

Yes. They both establish the same thing about the character but the rifle abortion does it in a far more hamfisted way. I thought we got this.

Yes. He was very clearly willing to sacrifice his own people while showing very little remorse.
“What if he fights the Nietzsche way?”
You’re grasping now.

@142 God Hand is an overrated mess of a game. It’s difficult because it’s poorly made, not by intentional design. Even the developers admitted it had a shoestring budget and was barely put together properly.

I’m surprised they even got it out the door.

Played the game,liked it but didn’t gave me that stylish action satisfaction like some of the previous games.
Gameplay has been toned down
Story is nice,but it takes itself too seriously to the point where some lines,scenes look extremely silly.
The way i see it the old series are like Anime movies
the new one a B movie.

Bayonetta didn’t have a “story” or take herself seriously at all and yet raised the bar.Her story was quirky but for many that quirkiness along with the rich stylish gameplay was a lot of fun.Hell i enjoyed her story more than any DMC

@144:

Okay, this is getting boring. A guy who’s ready to sacrifice his own people for the greater good is a potential baby-killer. Glad we got that figured out.

Moving on.

“Fuck adding more layers to the character, we already established that he’s evil, that should be enough, guys. Besides that scene could really make people uncomfortable.”

@145 you can dodge literally every attack in the game from the outset. If you’re getting hit its your own fault, not the games. The game works as intended.

@145
No, it was difficult because it was challenging. I rarely had any real technical issues with it. How is God Hand even overrated at all? It’s barely talked about and it didn’t do well commercially or critically.

@147 so why didn’t he have them backing him up during the fight if he’s so willing to sacrifice them for his own gain? There’s no reason not to.