DmC – expectation can be a double-edged sword

ehh the game releases in Germany on 15.January aswell not 18
http://www.amazon.de/Capcom-DmC-Devil-May-Cry/dp/B0090ERZUK/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_cart_1

I’m so pumped for this game and I’m so tired of reading all the shit thrown at the game and Ninja Theory from so called “fans” of the series.

TWO FREAKIN’ YEARS this has been going on. Every comments section descending into a shit-storm.

When DmC was announced in 2010, my reaction was the same as most. The character design was so far removed from the classic look that I didn’t know what to make of it at all. At the time, Ninja Theory had put out “Heavenly Sword”, which wasn’t great, and “Enslaved” hadn’t been released yet. “Enslaved” was very good, but the combat side of things… Weak. Simple. Definitely not what you’d expect from a “Devil May Cry” game.

So I was concerned that Ninja Theory was going to drop the ball.

Then the previews arrived. Then the screenshots and videos. The first actual footage of combat was released in December 2011, and it looked slick. It looked WAY more in-depth than anything Ninja Theory had put out before.

Previews from respected publications like GamesTM and EDGE made a point of explaining the Angel/Demon controls and gave positive impression. Everything was building toward a positive buzz and all the concerns I had melted away.

“Noisia” and “Combichrist” were announced to be providing the soundtrack. I got hands on with the game at the Eurogamer Expo.

Impressed, I was!

Public demo was released on Xbox Live. I must’ve played this thing 50 times already.

SOLD!

I’ve played all the “Devil May Cry” games, I own the originals, I own the HD collection. I own the anime series on DVD. I recently almost spunked a silly amount of money on the Revoltech Dante figure.

At this point, “Devil May Cry 4″ is my favourite hack n’ slash of this gen.

And, based on all the above, I cannot wait for next week. It’s so clear to me right now that Ninja Theory has delivered. And I just do not understand where the INSANE hatred comes from.

2 dodges, no lock-on, enemies that force you to fight them with one particular weapon only, and dialogue that basically sounds like it was written by someone trying to impress grade schoolers. That’s where the hatred comes from. Sure, the look is awful and DINO’s voice actor sounds like he was just woken up to do his voice acting, but if the gameplay had been solid, I would have accepted it. The gameplay is very much lacking. I actually got bored in the middle of the level in the demo. The boss battle was a bit fun and I liked the design of the boss, but the dialogue during it ruined that experience beyond repair.

Fuck Ninja Theory and fuck this game. I can’t wait for it to come out so it can underperform (I never said it will flop. Sadly, it’ll probably sell at least 500-600,000 worldwide, which is below Capcom’s expectations, but certainly what a lot of companies wish their games would sell), and then we can never hear about it again. If it has to be the end of the Devil May Cry series, then so be it.

I loved the demo and i can not wait to finally get my hands on the finished product. It drives me crazy. No other game this year has my attention as much as DmC: Devil May Cry. Maaaaybe i even get the Special Edition, i don’t know. If the DRM is not annoying, i’ll probably get it on PC too.

Yes, i love everything about the game.

@2

That didnt take long, did it.

So you can juggle enemies all the way to the sky-box.

Thats pretty cool right?

I’m being positive!

@6 not only that but you can invert the juggle and pull people up from the air. By that I mean…

1) You use a launcher to throw an enemy up in the air
2) You jump and start unleashing air combos
3) Enemies start pooling beneath you to wait for you to come back down
4) But you can hook enemies up from the ground into the air to batter them too.
5) Chain that with your lift move to grapple between flying enemies and you can stay in the air for a very long time. It’s nuts

@7 – if I’m reading that correctly, you could do that in Bayonetta and in DMC4 (if you were Nero), as well, so it’s not exactly innovative.

I think what Dave means is that its now possible for anyone to do it. Which is cool.

What I meant was more that its possible to use the same move over and over again and keep going up and up and up until you reach the ceiling of the World. Its hilarious.

@9 Yeah.

And I wasn’t saying it was innovative Clupula, you decided I was saying that.

@5 – Nope. It didn’t. Your post inspired me to express my hatred of the game.

Your post almost inspired me to express my hatred of Combichrist after a show we played with them in back in 2006, but I’ll refrain from bringing up that story again. But they’re fucking spoiled bitches.

@11 jesus, are they proper divas then? I want to know

Also, what’s your band? Still going?

@10 – Well, the way you were describing it, step-by-step, was as if no one had ever experienced it before. Otherwise, I figure you would have said something like, “You know how you can air juggle multiple enemies with the grab in Bayonetta and DMC4? You can do that here too. And it’s easier than ever” or something to that effect.

@12 – It was my old band. My current band is basically what happens when a bunch of people into punk decide to tune down to B and play black metal. I’m the singer, since I’m usually the most outspoken, obnoxious person I know.

We were supposed to open for Combichrist and the Genitorturers one night at what used to called Lamours in Brooklyn. Famous club. It’s where Carnivore/Type O Negative and Biohazard and all those sort of bands came from. They had changed it to Brooklyn Music Terminal or something like that, but we all still called it Lamours.

Anyway, it’s 8. The door were supposed to open, but the Genitorturers were having problems with their guitar sound. So they told the club to keep the doors shut for another half hour so they could finish up and then Combichrist could do whatever they needed to do.

Well, in the middle of the guitar problems, one of the guys just walks up to the front of the stage and says that they have to get their soundcheck now or they’re going to leave. We and the other opening bands thought they were kidding. They get told to wait a few minutes. The guy says, “No soundcheck, no play,” and they just up and leave.

The next day, they made a whole big thing online about how the club should have refunded all their fans, even though they were the ones who chose to skip out. And that the club was being disrespectful to them because the club only cared about metal bands. They made it this huge industrial vs. metal bullshit and even brought up the fact that the only other industrial band of the evening, one of the other openers, got taken off the bill.

What they didn’t mention is that we all had to sell tickets for the show and that band sold 8 of them, which was far below the minimum every band had to sell. Any one of us could have been taken off the bill if we didn’t get enough people to come.

I just didn’t like that they basically screwed the people who came to see them play and then made it out like it was the club’s fault and got all the industrial fans to do shit like hack the club’s website.

I mean, for me, it was a great show. The Genitorturers were nice enough to let us use their lighting, I introduced my lesbian then-guitarist to her first groupie experience, I was invited to be part of the Gentorturers stage show (which was both a good and a bad experience, since it was during my favorite song, so I didn’t get to hear it much) and we got a good response, but it really rubbed me the wrong way that they’d just say, “Fuck the show” because they didn’t want to wait a couple minutes to get their soundcheck.

So that’s where the hate for the game comes from.

No, this wouldn’t be the first game to have a band I don’t like as part of the soundtrack. Usually there’s volume controls in most games, so that’s not usually a factor. The whole first half of Brutal Legend had a lot of really shitty hardrock bands as part of the soundtrack that usually require a lot of alcohol for me to not hate (Def Leppard’s “Rock of Ages” is one of my least favorite songs ever), but I just turned those songs off in favor of the songs I did like.

My hate for the game comes from the things I said in…#2.

Believe it or not, I was actually a bit more positive about the game when it was supposed to be a prequel to the series proper, until I started seeing how much of the canon they were getting wrong.

I don’t remember them ever saying that it’s going to be a prequel. And fuck the canon, seriously. I don’t understand why people act like it’s something holy, Capcom sure as hell does not. Look at the canon of Resident Evil for example.

@14 bloody hell that’s rough dude. Definitely sound like a bunch of divas. Got a link to your band dude? I’ll swap you, here’s mine – http://open.spotify.com/track/4aIA5e3czyZd75R8L35eR9 – I’m on vox too.

@17 – There’s an old interview they did on the Playstation blog, back when it was first announced, that said it was going to be a prequel. They were asked if they were going to reboot any other characters besides Dante and they said they weren’t because it had to fit into the continuity and the game would show how Dante became the Dante we saw in DMC3.

Then after getting enough things wrong, the fan outcry got louder, and they finally changed it around to the parallel universe it supposedly is now.

Next Monday morning will make for good internet reading. *grabs popcorn*

@18 – Thanks. I’ll check you all out. We have almost all of our stuff available for free download at the moment (one of our songs was too big to fit on the site, but we have it up on Youtube for people to hear), but I’m working on the artwork for the physical version which we’re looking to release in like March or something, right now.

http://www.reverbnation.com/nemesisimperium

@19: Never heard from it. Remember it was a reboot from the get-go.

@21 thanks dude

I’m looking forward to this game. Won’t be a day 1 purchase but I’ll pick it up at some point for sure. Never cared for the cannon of DMC just enjoy the gameplay.

@22 *edit* just realised the link I posted is the sarcastic afterwards post.

To reiterate and expand on a post I made yesterday…

I enjoyed the demo. I think the game is flashy, enjoyable and funny. I think the combat looks amazing in action, with a lot of scope for personal experimentation.

But…

I do know for a fact that some mechanics in the game as they currently stand are completely broken – jump cancelling is especially bad. If you can infinitely spamjumpslash an enemy into submission, there’s an inherent problem with the design.

There are niggles with the system that *really* have to be fixed. Pretending they don’t exist is just naive, no matter how great everything else about the game is.

@Clupula liking it man, sounds dark as all hell

Didn’t realise that was a reverb link. We’re on there too – http://www.reverbnation.com/deadbydawnuk/song/13345818-false-spectacle

@22 – It was in 2010 and websites had been reporting it as a reboot, but in that interview, I remember he said something along the lines of, “It’s not a total departure. The story will gel with most of what you already know.”

But it was a whole bunch of things they got wrong that made people get pissed off. Like the hair being black because it hadn’t turned white yet and hadn’t embraced his demon side. That directly contradicts what DMC1 established, since there was a picture of both Dante and Virgil as kids in his locket, both with white hair. If he had simply been dying his hair black, that would have been acceptable, because kids do that. Hell, I dyed my hair black for about ten years. And then the whole thing with his mother really being an angel and it eventually became clear that they didn’t know the franchise enough or were retconning too much, so it became the alternate universe story it is now.

The jump cancelling problem: http://youtu.be/9rTlYaKGS0E

It is also possible to SSS the boss in the demo using just one weapon, spamming the same attack over and over. This shows an inherent problem with the game’s mechanics. Can’t find the video right now though, but I’ll add it if I find the link later.

Let’s not forgot that I’m a huge defender of this game and have been a supporter of it since day one. I’m not going to ignore issues with it that are staring me right in the face though.

@27: First of all: Who is he?

Second: “It’s not a total departure. The story will gel with most of what you already know.” Doesn’t sound ‘he’ is confirming that it’s a prequel. At. All.

I like the angel / demon thing, because it actually affects the gameplay.

@28: We’ll have to see. It’s a demo after all. If they are not aware of it yet, we will probably patch it later.

As always people miss the main problem with the new game the
combat is average running at 30 fps.
We are reaching the end of this console generation.
Games should be running and playing at their best right now.
DMC 4 60 fps.
DMC 3 60 fps.
DMC reboot 30 fps.
That is whats wrong.
The game may be amazing but if the heart and soul of a DMC game the combat isn’t as good as the old games the game has failed as a DMC game.
That has always been what people were upset about.
When a new studio make a new game in a franchise it should
always make sure to get the basic gameplay right.
Look at halo 4 343 industries using a different engine from the old games got the combat right.
If they didn’t people would be all over them.
If the mp of the next cod game ran 30 fps reviewers
would criticize them for it and people would be very upset.
Because it would not play as well as the other games in the series.
That is the main problem with the new game it does not play as well as the other game in the franchise.

@29 Tameen has said the demo is the same as the final product.

I seriously hope they patch it. It’s completely gamebreaking. Dave, surely even you can’t ignore that evidence.

@30: Then play the fucking PC Version, for Spaghetti-Monsters sake!

So 60 FPS is the heart and soul of the series. Could’ve fooled me, i remember DMC 1 having terrible PAL Version and running slowier than the NTSC Version. Didn’t bother me back then. Guess i never was a DMC Fan to begin with.

@30 it doesn’t play like it’s 30 FPS to me. Not at all in fact. It runs fine.

#30 You’ve just proven how much you guys don’t even know about hardware. I’m not pointing this at you in specific, but the masses:

People, please,

the frame rates don’t belong to any special category, or what not, it’s not 30, or 60…

It can be 12, 47, 96, etc..

If you’re upset about a game’s performance (which is even multi platform, and not optimized for a single piece of hardware!), don’t always bash the developer from the get go. Look around you, and notice, that there is hardware out there that can handle games way better.

We’ve had Halo ODST back in the days with a resolution lower then 640×480, and that was like when, 2009? Your current hardware wasn’t even closely enough even back then not to mention “the now”.

And this is what i mean when i say that DMC “Fans” are never satisfied.

“Dante doesn’t smoke! You got it all wrong, Dante not smoking was the heart and soul of the series!”
“He only smoked in the teaser.”
“What do i care, i only watched the teaser, also Dante has white hair and doesn’t look like that at all, he looks an emo-fag, that’s the heart and soul of the series.”
“His hair turns white when you use devil mode. Also Capcom said they wanted a different Dante and liked our version a lot.”
“Well fuck that, why can’t i have white hair all the time? Also Dante uses more than one weapon, that’s the heart and soul of the series.”
“We have more than one weapon.”
“Yeah, well, still not enough, also you changed his character, his character was the heart and soul of the series.”
“No, we didn’t, he just swears more.”
“Well, fuck swearing, that’s childish also the combat is not deep enough. Combat was the heart and soul of the series!”
“We made it deeper. I hope that’s enough.”
“No it isn’t. Also it’s not 60 FSP … it is FSP, isn’t it? I don’t know what that means, but the previous game had that and that was the heart and soul of the series!”
“We can’t change that, we’ve gotten used to working the with Unreal Engine, starting from scratch for a few more FPS would be insane, so we made it look like it runs smoother than it actually does, but if you’re bothered by that, you can still play the PC Version.”
“Well, no. I want to have 60 F-Stuff on consoles, also where is the gothic architecture, that was the heart and soul of the game!”
“It’s gone, we made it more modern european, i also hope you like Limbo.”
“I don’t care, the previous games didn’t have that, what’s the point of this new stuff anyway? Playing the same thing over and over again was the heart and soul of the series. Also what’s up with the music, Dubstep? Are you retarded? The music in the previous games was the heart and soul of the series.”
“Yeah, we hired two bands for the music, one for Rock/Metal and one for Dubstep.”
“Don’t like that, it’s different. Also you fucked up the holy canon of DMC, that’s the heart and soul of the series.”
“Yeah, we thought it would be better to start from scratch with the story, i mean what’s the point of a reboot if you’re doing the same thing again?”
“… Yeah, well, i don’t like that at all, also Dante doesn’t smoke!”

-_-”

#34

Omg wtf lolwut man?

@33 Can you comment on the flaws I mentioned, Dave?

@37 which ones man, sorry I missed them. Can you post again here?

There appears to be an inherent misunderstanding when it comes to framerate.

30fps doesnt mean DmC plays at half speed. Its very simple.

I cant be bothered to explain it though, as its akin to smashing one’s own head against a brick wall.

This game will walk away with a metacritic score of 85+. This will be based on well reasoned, well written reviews from people employed to critique the products objectively. Which is why reading well produced copy will always be more important than the user score.

Remember that whole Feminine Frequency thing, and how the “gamer” audience got dragged through the mud? That is the level we are at. Its that level of stupid.

“Gamers” really are a lame bunch, it would seem. Possibly the loudest, vocal minority that exists on the internet. Its a shame, really. Its a shame that constructive criticism has given way to ill informed to rabble.

@38 Post number 28.

Would love to hear Stace’s thoughts too.

@40 trying it now.

“the frame rates don’t belong to any special category, or what not, it’s not 30, or 60…

It can be 12, 47, 96, etc..”

@34, the actual frame rate on a 60Hz screen is always a factor of 60 (60, 30, 20, 15, etc). Anything else will tear up, or get skipped altogether (at very high software fps), while the actual display rate remains a factor of 60.

@40 I can’t get it to work. You can only double jump once as far as I can see. Don’t take that to mean that it can’t be done however. Maybe my timing is off.

#34

You don’t have even the slightest clue about framerates or resolution do you?

No need to reply, we know the answer.

@40

So… does this mean that when DmC is made public, we will be seeing extreme combo videos where the player earns a few points at a time, jump cancelling for 45 minutes to achieve a middling score on the leaderboards?

Because that doesn’t sound exciting. This on the other hand…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2hycur2ZAY

Is a JOY to watch.

@45 yeah but it’s like quick-scoping isn’t it? If you want cheap, souless insta-head shots then that’s fine, why would you ruin your own experience by exploiting a glitch? That’s like pissing all over yourself isn’t it?

I couldn’t get it to work, so it’s maybe been patched out. That demo build was old bear in mind, like a year old – regardless of Tameem saying it was the final code. I can’t get it to work, so I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

@46 Even so, the amount of points being earned by exploiting that particular technique, isn’t honestly worth anyone’s time.

Even things like the SSS Arbiter/Demon Dodge “exploit” is entirely contextual. I’ve been able to do it, but only when the enemies stack in the right order. Kinda like this, in DMC 4…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGBstzmj6MQ

SSS within 10 seconds.

@47 I do have a sneaking suspicion that the jump thing has been nuked as I couldn’t do it, but again I can’t say for sure until more people try it. Crap response I know but it didn’t work for me.

The black cloud below Dante in the video is his double jump animation. You can only double jump once before falling back to the ground from what I’ve played. That applies everywhere as far as I know.

@48 I think the cloud is from “enemy step”, basically jumping off the enemy that’s infront/below you.

But maybe they’ve tweaked that too?

Heck, this stuff could change post launch also. With patches.

I still think the “broken mechanics” that people try to blast the game over are far from exciting. When this game hits, I fully expect to see MENTAL videos hitting YouTube, with all kinds of elaborate combo mix-ups. Much like what we had with previous DMC titles, and Capcom’s own fighting games.

The stuff people produce in Street Fighter IV, Marvel Vs Capcom 3 and Street Fighter X Tekken… Amazing.

@49 I think people need to be careful in calling mechanics ‘broken’ – in DmC and in all games – as there’s a difference here. People say quick-scoping is a broken element of the game. It’s not, it’s an exploit.

Now, exploits to me should still be ironed out as they unbalance a game. But said mechanics aren’t broken, they’e simply being used in ways unintended by the developer. That jump thing isn’t broken, someone’s found an exploit.

But yes, patches can remove it, if it persists.

Agree with you there btw, Capcom do fighting games so well. Big Street Fighter fan (hate to say I’m a Ken player though…or Elena if she’s in the game)