Gran Turismo series has shifted 67.8 million units to date

The market for an arcade racer like Mario Kart and the market for a sim-like racer is completely different.

In terms of sales. Yes sales will obviously have some correlation to installed user base. However the key point there is “obviously”. That’s a given. It doesn’t need a different type of game, on a different machine, where there is little competition for that sort of game (on that machine or any other) example to make that obvious point – does it?

@47:

How are third party analysts irrelevant?

Just about every single analyst around said that the PS3 would do much better than it has done before release.

That affects consumers, and that influences sales.

And connotation doesn’t have anything to it. Or are you telling me that no one can make a comment on what Sony is doing wrong without “taking shots”?

Do we all have to say positive stuff, and nothing else, now?

@50
Yeah that is odd, it was bobbins. There was a decent sized user base though.

(see how I did that in a couple of short sentences without trying to shoehorn in my platform of choice).

#51 Doc, well i see it because both are the main racers for each respective manufacturer one for Sony and the Other for nintendo, nintendo not doing sims, mario kart is their example of their prime and big racer, like forza for that matter in the microsoft side, so for me those three are in the same category all of them are jugernauts for their respective makers in the racer category, is that i just got the feeling that OG could stated his opinion, wrong or right is worth discussing, but is better than being shut up or not comenting at all, it would be bad only if his main intention was to troll or start another war consoles thread, i dont think OG had neither of them IMHO.

@54
I don’t think it was OGs intention to troll, but it was Nintendo shoe-horned in to a conversation where it really wasn’t necessary, or in my opinion that relevant.

Not trying to troll just widen the conversation and put more perspective on it. I have been trying to get some Forza numbers, no luck thus far. I have links suggesting that Forza has moved around 10Million, but the info is out of date and I trust it even less then I normaly trust sales numbers.

And ofc, once people started pointed pointing fingers(Sony fans), I stoped with the thread. Some folks like to live in their bubbles, I guess.

Only other thing I will say is that Nintendo platforms are also home to several other racing games, from Nascar to NFS to GTs(No not Polyphony Digitals GT) to other Kart games. Mario Kart just sells really well.

If you are for more of an apple to apple compare and contrast Take a peak at Modnation racers, or Crash Kart(back when that was out). Or keep an eye on LBPK. But I don’t feel that there is a different demographic when looking at racers. I understand there are different types of racers, but in the over all scheme of things I don’t think it matters. I own Mario Kart and Gran T. for example. Esp with todays sim racers offering so many driver assists, they are nearly arcade experiences to begin with.

So in my mind a racer is a racer. Just like I wouldn’t differentiate between Tekken and BluBlaze and Street Fighter 4. Fighters all of them. I know some folks would disagree, but that is just my take on it.

@G1GA
You are completely right in saying ps3 will not reach ps2 levels, but it has a very good chance of surpassing ps1 sales. Ps3 will cross 360 (for whatever its worth) in terms of units sales, and with wii being dead for a long time now, I fully expect both 360 and ps3 to reduce the sales margin to 10-15 million range, with ps3 making the most out of it. Remember that sony is very good at prolonging their console cycle, with ps1 outselling ps2 in 1st year and same thing with ps2 and ps3.

@OG
Tell me how you conveniently forgot to mention MK being 5 years older than GT series and what about the fact that it released on 7 consoles than GTs 4 consoles?
Fun Fact- Remove psp and ds figures and you have both series neck to neck. Good for a series that started 5 years late.
Each GT main entry reaches 10 million, whereas 54 million of that grand figure of 87 million of MK came from just 2 entries, that says something. Effectively, GT was leading before the current gen came.

“Mario Kart just sells really well. ”
Yeah? How about you remove current gen entries and talk about it? It just sold well recently. Its funny how you took just 2 entries out of 7 and spun it off as a general statement that MK sells really well.

But that’s not the point, both have different markets.

See, I think a Forza comparison is completely justified. A Mario Kart one is not. They are two totally different types of racers.

If we were talking about Modnation Racers, THEN Mario Kart would be appropriate.

@50 Doc did you not like GTPSP? (forgive me I don’t know what bobbins means

I think mario kart is for nintendo what gran turismo and forza are for theirs respective manufacturers, is their big and prime racing game, the thing it is not sim is kart, but for nintendo mario kart represents the same as the other two, is their flagship racer.

Like Manu said, top exclusive racers for their respective platforms.

Even in recent memory Dragon MK outsells GT. Look at DS VS PSP. Or Wii vs PS3. I don’t think the age of the franchise matters, unless all you are doing is looking at the total sales numbers. And keep in mind MK doesn’t come out multiple times during one system cycle. in other words PSx had 2 GTs, N64 had one MK. PS2 had 4 GT releases, NGC had just one MK. PS3 has had 2 GTs and Wii only had One MK.

If we just compared Modnation to MK the gap would be even wider.

@61
“Even in recent memory Dragon MK outsells GT. Look at DS VS PSP. Or Wii vs PS3. ”
ONLY in recent memory MK outsells GT. As I said earlier, remove those 2 examples and MK becomes a 30 million franchise, which is very bad for a “flagship” franchise.

“I don’t think the age of the franchise matters, unless all you are doing is looking at the total sales numbers. ”
Well you brought MK ltd sales just to prove something.

“If we just compared Modnation to MK the gap would be even wider.’
No problem, that would be a fair comparison as both cater to same audience.

@52, you took my comment out of context and started going on about 3rd party analysts, when I said “nobody predicted the market” I was specifically referring to hardware manufacturers developing a product that would capture a similar market share as the PS2 in the last generation. Nobody has produced such a product, therefore they failed to predict what the market wanted. I thought the context of the comment reflected that, but perhaps not if you just chop off the start of the sentence and disregard the rest. 3rd party analysts are irrelevant to my specific comment because they’re not producing products that are competing in this market.

You’re never going to admit to this, so it’s a pointless discussion, but your language is clearly negative, read it back yourself. It’s not an objective comment that serves any purpose other than to cast a negative light on the situation. There’s nothing wrong with criticism when it’s relevant, but when it’s out of place you come across as an arse, like now.

If you want a relevant comparison compare the game with its competitors in todays market. It has sold better than any of the Forza games btw.

“when I said “nobody predicted the market” I was specifically referring to hardware manufacturers developing a product that would capture a similar market share as the PS2 in the last generation.

That makes absolutely NO sense at all. At least, not in English. If what you meant to say was that none of the console manufacturers were able to recreate the sales that the PS2 was able to achieve, then that’s what you should have said.

Everybody already knew what the market wanted. And it didn’t cost $599 or £429, and have hardly any games. The market wanted good quality, innovative, next gen games at a good price.

They still do.

If Sony couldn’t provide that, or if Microsoft couldn’t provide reliability, or if Nintendo couldn’t provide core games, then that’s their fault for no being able to deliver.

And with regards to negativity, then it’s all in your mind. It’s clearly a statement that could have been made by anyone, even a PS3 loyalist, because it’s completely true.

The PS3 has sold badly compared to the PS2. What’s so negative about saying that? Even Hirai would admit it. Maybe not publicly, but around the shareholders table, no doubt.

And please… If you think that I’m going to fall for some weak bait like ‘GT is better than Forza’, then you’ve got the wrong guy.

@64, if that’s all the market wants, why is the gaming experience not the driving force behind marketing and current development?

Sony “Only Does Everything” Microsoft have placed more emphasis on expanding the media capabilities of their box for at least the last 2 years. The Wii was a clear front runner closer to the start of this generation, both MS and Sony attempted to steal some of its thunder by bolting on their own clones of the technology to no tangible results. That all reeks of uncertain direction and strategy to me. On top of that the explosion in smartphone technology and growth of gaming in that sector have all 3 big companies scrambling to get involved somehow.

It’s not the statement you made as much as where you made it, you weren’t given bait, you were given an example of a worthwhile comparison.