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PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base

Thursday, 1st November 2012 16:07 GMT By Patrick Garratt

Developers are currently taking receipt of a new PlayStation 4 dev kit, VG247 has been told today, with a final version slated to appear in January. Yes, it’ll have Blu-ray. No, it isn’t being made in Japan.

Multiple sources have confirmed to VG247 today that a new version of the Orbis kit is now shipping to developers, and that it’s housed in a normal PC case.

There are to be four versions of the dev kit, we were told. A previous version was essentially just a graphics card. The version shipping now is a “modified PC,” and the third version, appearing in January, will be close to final spec. A final version will be delivered to developers “next summer”.

Some US developers attended a “disclosure meeting” at Sony’s offices this week, with a further meeting to take place in the coming weeks. The purpose of the meeting is for Sony to tell studios what the machine is designed to do, to detail hardware and to show a set of presentations.

Our source told us that Sony is only calling the machine Orbis, and is not using the words “PlayStation 4″ in these meetings at all.

Orbis, we were told today, is based on the AMD’s A10 APU series. An APU (Accelerated Processing Unit) is a combined CPU and GPU.

PS4′s APU was described today as a “derivative” of existing A10 hardware. The hardware is “based on A10 system and base platform”.

The “ultimate goal” for the hardware, we were told, is for it to be able to run 1080p60 games in 3D with “no problem,” to create a machine that’s powerful enough for “today and tomorrow’s market”.

The dev kits have “either 8Gb or 16Gb of RAM. Deduce from that what you will.”

The hardware is not being made in Japan, it was said.

When asked if PS4 will have an optical drive, specifically Blu-ray, our source responded: “Of course it has.” We’ve been told the hard drive will be 256Gb “as standard,” but it’s not clear if it’ll be a normal HDD or a solid state drive.

We were told that Sony’s aim with Orbis is to avoid problems involved in launching PS3 by creating something “very affordable” but that “isn’t a slouch”.

The machine has WiFi and Ethernet connectivity and HDMI out. Our source said the was “no difference” between PlayStation 3 and Orbis input/output.

The UI, however, has been revamped. It was said today that players will now be able to press the PS button mid-game and travel “anywhere” on the system. An example given was buying DLC from the PS Store mid-game then seamlessly returning to play.

“They’re trying to make it as fluid as possible,” our source said.

We were also told that the machine will be designed to accept system and product updates in the background, and that it’ll “always be in standby mode”. When you set the console up, we were told, you’ll be asked if you want to allow background downloads. You can, of course, disallow them.

No details have been given on the pad as yet. Confirmation is expected this month.

Orbis is expected to be announced at an event “just before E3″ next year.

Latest

101 Comments

  1. Deacon

    WOOT!

    #1 2 years ago
  2. ManuOtaku

    Nice read and good/ promising news, i do really hope the price is not too high, though.

    #2 2 years ago
  3. stretch215

    Sounds great. And they are actually talking about being “affordable”. Next gen is sounding pretty awesome. I can’t wait to see some games.

    #3 2 years ago
  4. Moonwalker1982

    What i don’t get it. They are openly talking about the PS4, but there’s so little (if anything) concrete and confirmed about Xbox 3/720.

    #4 2 years ago
  5. OlderGamer

    Good to get some “news” of Orbis. I just hope Sony lernt their lessons with PS3 and Vita. Meaning that what you pack into the box is less important then the price can afford to charge for it. They better get it right or the road could get rougher for Sony from there.

    #5 2 years ago
  6. Sini

    affordable $399 instead of $599
    Let’s hope at least 8gb ram is true.

    #6 2 years ago
  7. Lahanas

    Fuck yeah, as good as games like Halo 4 and AC3 may be, I cant wait for the next generation. I NEED new consoles. 2013 will be epic.

    #7 2 years ago
  8. G1GAHURTZ

    One thing’s for sure…

    Sony can’t just stick a PlayStation logo on a brick and expect it so sell millions, anymore.

    #8 2 years ago
  9. Maximum Payne

    A10 chip means it will not require to much power to run and cheaper to build which means cheaper console but I am not sure for performance.While lastest A10 for desktop is quite solid its not that good for 1080p gaming or even 3D.
    But again they promised 1080p for ps3 :D

    #9 2 years ago
  10. dizzygear

    But will it run PS2 and PS3 games?
    If not, it better has one hell of a line up to convince me.

    #10 2 years ago
  11. deathm00n

    @8 yeah, because PS3 didn’t sold at all, right? …lolwut?

    So far this looks like the most detailed rumor we had, with believable specs.

    #11 2 years ago
  12. G1GAHURTZ

    ^ Is the PS3 a brick?

    #12 2 years ago
  13. Mike W

    I hope it comes out early 2014…..the PS3 seems like it’s going out with a bang next year.

    #13 2 years ago
  14. N2O1990

    GB or Gb?serious question
    And never heard about 256GB HDD,it’s always 250GB,unless actually it’s 256Gb=32GB

    #14 2 years ago
  15. Belmont

    I’m really happy that we have a detailed and reasonable spec sheet here.
    I don’t know much about A10 but I think it won’t be that bad.8GB of RAM is very cool.regarding the 8/16 debate I think Sony guys themselves aren’t 100% sure of which one to choose.perhaps they are shipping it this way in order to get feedback from developers.
    Bad that there is no info on control methods(yet !).
    About backwards compatibility I think they are going to count on Porting current games and so on,similar to this gen HD remasters or possibly cloud via Gaikai

    #15 2 years ago
  16. Gadzooks!

    No more useless shitty Cell, huzzah!

    I’ll never buy another Sony product as long as I live, but it’s great news that console tech from the big 3 is converging on x86 as it benefits all gamers.

    A single A10 does seem somewhat underpowered though. Surely it will have a discrete GPU as well?

    They don’t want another panic GPU addition at the last minute. That’s in part what fucked the PS3.

    #16 2 years ago
  17. deathm00n

    @12 Okay, sorry, didn’t understand what you meant, that’s because here in Brazil the PS3 received the nickname of something like a brick(tijolo baiano) because of it’s size. Now I see you meant the situation of debts Sony is passing through, right?

    #17 2 years ago
  18. Moonwalker1982

    Oh wow, they want to officialy announce it before E3? I seriously wonder what MS is planning then.

    #18 2 years ago
  19. Nfanboy

    It seems that the hardware is more conservative.

    i can’t blame Sony for that.

    People expecting a system with 8 GB are DREAMING.

    The system will come with 4 GB which already a huge jump from the PS3.

    Devkits have always more ram.

    And if the Vita is any indication, Sony will be more conservative on the Ram to have a acceptable retail price.

    I think 399 £$must be the target retail price for them.

    #19 2 years ago
  20. Belmont

    @19
    I don’t know for sure,but twice the RAM in devkit ?
    However,we can’t expect a 399$ machine with equal specs to a 1000$ PC.

    #20 2 years ago
  21. PwnedHaxor

    “The UI, however, has been revamped. It was said today that players will now be able to press the PS button mid-game and travel “anywhere” on the system. An example given was buying DLC from the PS Store mid-game then seamlessly returning to play.”

    Yeah, lets just hope its smooth. Even accessing the XMB in a game is not smooth.

    #21 2 years ago
  22. Mike W

    @OG

    This is a real honest question…

    Do you really want Sony to do well? The reason I ask, is because you leave a comment in every Sony related article with this whole ‘doom & gloom’ attitude. “I hope Sony learns from their mistakes this gen” or “I don’t see Sony surviving next gen”. This is just a few of your reoccuring complaits and I really don’t see how you can have anything negative to say about this rumor, but it never seems to fail.

    Again, this is a honest question, I don’t want to argue

    #22 2 years ago
  23. Christopher Jack

    I’m expecting a Radeon HD 7850 equivalent GPU, that 256GB drive is most likely a SSD & 4GB of RAM.

    #23 2 years ago
  24. G1GAHURTZ

    @17:

    I was saying that Sony’s situation has changed hugely since the end of the previous console gen.

    When the PS3 was on the way, iirc, some Microsoft exec was quoted as saying that Sony could sell bricks if they put a PlayStation logo on them.

    Nobody disagreed.

    Probably least of all Sony, who packed so much into the PS3, that they had to sell it for such a high price.

    This time, because of their financial situation, they’re forced to really work hard and come up with an innovative, low priced product for the first time since the PS1.

    The PS4 is Sony’s opportunity to show the games industry that they’re still the biggest kid on the block, and they need to take full advantage of it.

    #24 2 years ago
  25. Nfanboy

    @23

    I don’t believe in SDD. this would skyrocket the price of the console.

    Flash or HDD more likely.

    #25 2 years ago
  26. deathm00n

    @24 I see. Sorry about the misunderstanding!

    And I agree with you, this is their opportunity. I don’t know, in my mind at least I think that it will happen like the current gen. Nintendo takes the lead with their casual market(or not so casual anymore), then Sony and Microsoft battles for the “hardcore” gamer. The first to release it will have an clear advantage, because the die-hard fans of the hardcore games will get the first console they can put their hands on, they don’t have the patience to wait and see the options.

    And there’s the ones like me, who still have faith in Sony. I’m still with playstation since the first one, after coming from SNES and never again changed.

    @25 I think so too, a SSD isn’t something you’d put on a piece that you claim to be affordable

    #26 2 years ago
  27. Lord Gremlin

    Yeah, but it’s all not important. What’s important is if it will run PS3 games. If it doesn’t, then why would you buy it?
    PSN. Think about it, people have thousands of items on their download lists, huge sums of money spent on PS store. PS4 must support PS3 games. Otherwise you might as well move to somewhere else, like on PC.

    #27 2 years ago
  28. G1GAHURTZ

    @26:

    No problemo!

    #28 2 years ago
  29. Kuwabara

    @16 damm troll. Shouldn’t you be playing your halo 4? Or have you gotten used to playing the same shit over and over again on that xbox?

    #29 2 years ago
  30. Ireland Michael

    Oh man, so many fanboys.

    #30 2 years ago
  31. OlderGamer

    The short answer Mike W is no, I don’t want to see them fail.

    When Sony came onto the scene with hardware with PSx, they had drive and meaning. They offered a great system, affordable, better then Saturn(3Dwise), and changed the course of video games. They continued to do that with PS2. But after that?

    This gen has been a tutorial on what not to do given by Sony. They could have written a book. The PS3 hardware is a mess. And it was/is too expensive. You can not win any generation of hardware by puting out a tech heavy yet pricey box. PS2 didn’t win buy being better then Xbox, it won by being more affordable. Sony forgot that with PS3, and worse they did the samething again with Vita. That is what I mean by I hope they lernt their lessons and make future designs around the idea that hardware can be too expensive. What is in the box matters less then if folks can afford to buy the box.

    I do tend to be a bit doom and gloom. I am very cynicle, it happens when you get older. You feel that almost everything stinks. Or maybe that is just me, lol.

    I won’t be cheering if Sony fails, anymore then I was when Sega and NEC stoped making hardware. But I really don’t see much of a future for Sony in hardware. I could see them being a publisher. Even using Giakia on tablets, phones, smart TVs, and even consoles.

    If I was Sony, I would drop Orbis plans. I would tighten my services on PS3, enhance Vita to PS3 conectivity, and look to compete directly with WiiU. I would fight XBNXT with price, services, and installed user base. I would explore getting Giakia going asap, and getting games on the service that dip into their rich past as well as putting out XBNXT level games that can be streamed. Giakia would allow PS3 to play games that could rival or surpass XBNXT games(graphicly). If they did that, and were able to sell PS3s for 150usd…I believe that would work.

    But instead they will push out new hardware and try once again to out Microsoft Microsoft. And I honestly don’t think they can do that. I think MS is going to clean up next gen with outstanding services that range from premium TV subscriptions to music downloads to as of yet unannounced services. I think games are only a small part of the picutre next gen. And sercvices, btw, can easily be handled on PS3.

    Hate Sony?

    No.

    Think they are out to lunch?

    Yes, truely.

    #31 2 years ago
  32. Erthazus

    AMD A10?

    That is AMD Fusion

    WELCOME to 2009 guys.

    So much next gen here. My previous intel processor that is based on Quad core Q6+ series is more powerfull than any of the latest of that trash.

    but that is probably enough to have Call Of Duty with direct X11 in 60 frames per second and that is enough to spend not a lot of money on the console. Cool story bro.

    P.S. This year in June there are already AMD Trinity processors and they are inferior to any Intel stuff. Just WoW Sony.

    #32 2 years ago
  33. OrbitMonkey

    So… 1-2 years to develop a game… Christmas 2014 launch?

    #33 2 years ago
  34. G1GAHURTZ

    @32:

    You should care, since you’ll probably be wasting money on overpriced hardware to play nothing but ports, anyway.

    #34 2 years ago
  35. Erthazus

    ^ In 100 frames per second with all the graphical stuff and without Auto-Aim. With fantastic Kickstarter projects.

    thank you.

    #35 2 years ago
  36. Christopher Jack

    @25, Learn what a SSD is. It’s not limited to those 2.5″ SATA ones that you’d grab for your PC.

    #36 2 years ago
  37. ManuOtaku

    #34 I would had not put it that way, you are opening his wounds once again, and then he will rage at consoles even more, though i like that respond, i am not so sure if it will have the desire effect GIGA, thats maybe the number one reason he hates consoles so much, not saying is right or wrong, though.

    #37 2 years ago
  38. G1GAHURTZ

    @35:

    Oooh… Wow.

    From 60fps to 100. That’s got to be worth £200, right?

    You might be able to get another 500 hours of unnoticeably smoother, auto aim free gameplay out of Black Ops 2!

    How lovely.

    #38 2 years ago
  39. Erthazus

    SSD won’t skyrocket the console.

    SSD costs a lot now because it’s a “cool feature”. In reality that’s not much.

    but console with SSD could be awesome.

    #39 2 years ago
  40. Ireland Michael

    @35 Nobody cares.

    The games are either good or they’re aren’t.

    #40 2 years ago
  41. Erthazus

    @G1GA, If I will play only Call Of duty I won’t need a rig at all..

    Also, If we remember PS3 was 599$

    @40, Sure. That’s why there are less and less good games every year on the current gen systems and industry is in trouble because of 7-8 year old consoles.

    #41 2 years ago
  42. Ireland Michael

    @41 He doesn’t only play Call of Duty.

    “That’s why there are less and less good games every year on the current gen systems and industry is in trouble because of 7-8 year old consoles.”

    Whether there’s less good games every year is entirely a matter of opinion. I for one couldn’t disagree more. I think games keep getting better all the time, on both the Indie and the Triple A side of things.

    Consoles have nothing to do with the troubles of the industry. In case you hadn’t noticed, we’re in the middle of a worldwide recession that makes the 1930s look like it was a cake-walk.

    #42 2 years ago
  43. Gadzooks!

    #32

    I’ve seen faceoffs where the A10 absolutely smoked the equivalent Intel quadcore.

    That was using the on-chip GPU. Not seen discrete GPU-equipped system comparisons though.

    #43 2 years ago
  44. Belmont

    @32
    Why don’t you just sit behind your super computer,playing BF3 at 1080P with everything at Ultra high and 200fps? Just let others comment and discuss in peace.
    @34
    Agreed

    I personally think the hardware is good.If it is 8GB of RAM,then we are talking about 16 times more memory.The article says the processor is based on A10, what I understand is that it may just be architecture of processor and such.

    #44 2 years ago
  45. Erthazus

    @43, O’RLY?

    http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+A10-5700+APU

    @belmont, my comment has nothing to do with PC superiority. I’m talking about Next Gen consoles. 2009 technology not that big of a leap from 2006 to be honest.

    Consoles should not cost 999$ with TOP Notch CPU or GPU. They should be just next gen.

    #45 2 years ago
  46. polygem

    sony must change their srategy. they try so hard to be the most tech savy, modern, most hip (and expensive) of the bunch. it´s not working and it´s good that it´s not working cause it stinks. i HATED sonys marketing this gen. they have so much great stuff and potential that they could push. they totally pressed all the wrong buttons this gen, even with many of their exclusives. i don´t want them to disappear, some of my most beloved ip´s are sony owned…but they will have a tough time next gen, a true fight to fight. competition is stronger than ever. consumers more unforginving than ever. one more major wrong decission and they are out.

    #46 2 years ago
  47. Ireland Michael

    Also, consoles have a lot less going on in the background than PCs do, giving them more to work with at a lower spec.

    #47 2 years ago
  48. Christopher Jack

    Frankly, you won’t need more than an A10 for gaming, I can run Skyrim on high with a measly A6

    #48 2 years ago
  49. Erthazus

    @48, Genius, it’s because current gen does not require more then old CPU.

    When the next gen comes processing power will be huge compared to the last gen. It’s always like that in all console generations.

    #49 2 years ago
  50. Belmont

    @Erthazus
    So,I think you are not satisfied with the amount of leap in the PS4,I understand. yet still,They need to ship it at an affordable price and Sony can’t afford to sell consoles at a huge loss per unit.
    On the other end,I think this A10 thing is going to be good enough. If they hold true to their promise of 1080P and 60FPS, I can’t wait to experience Uncharted’s visuals in that level.

    #50 2 years ago
  51. KrazyKraut

    there is only a certain amount of hardware needed. I can watch with my Raspberry Pi HD Movies…and on my old mac book with 1,83 core duo and 2 gb ram they are laggy as hell.

    I am sure they will do the right thing…at least Sony..because they will learn from their mistakes.

    #51 2 years ago
  52. FeaturePreacher

    Can’t wait to see what video card Sony will pack in the ps4. Hopefully it’ll pack 1 GB of video memory. Nice to see 8 GB of physical memory. It seems ever more certain that when the next generation arrives, the WiiU will look more and more like the Dreamcast.

    #52 2 years ago
  53. Levester

    its not ssd. dont be retarded. 256 gb solid state? no way.

    #53 2 years ago
  54. dreamcastnews

    @52, what a decent priced system with a shit tonne of ace games? Yeah I’d take a Wii U if it turned out like Dreamcast.

    #54 2 years ago
  55. TD_Monstrous69

    Specs sound great, seems like a real balance between power and affordability (or at least I hope so, and if it’s not as affordable as some as myself put on, it better have a strong launch window of games to justify its price, including strong 1st party content), and one thing I’m glad they’ve seemed to adress (going from this report) they didn’t this gen is the functionality of the ui, which I’ve always considered ok this gen, not good or great. It’s a big thumbs up from me if multitasking with the next Sony console can and will do this. Though if I could play prognosticator for a sec, my bet is that this gets unveiled at its own event (much like the Vita did back in january 2011) in January 2013, or at GDC in March (GDC would make more sense if u ask me). As far as a release, either holiday 2013, or early 2014, and its launch line up will not include a game where you attack the crab at its weak point for massive damage

    #55 2 years ago
  56. OrbitMonkey

    I wonder if Sony will keep the name “Orbis”? Very doubtful they’ll go with PlayStation 4, with all it’s association with death in Japan.

    #56 2 years ago
  57. GAMERNOOB

    They could give me clear up 8Gb or 8GB -> GIGABITS =/= GIGABYTES

    It´s was a typo ?

    #57 2 years ago
  58. laughing-gravy

    8GB of ram won’t be so much of a pricing problem if it’s flash connected on an interposer. I also expect the new system to include support for real time ray-tracing by way of an FPGA. There will almost undoubtedly be an additional gpu as the performance targets here are beyond what an A10 is capable of. I’ll put a couple of links below to an interview with Sony’s CTO which explain the tech that’s to be included a bit better than I can.

    http://semiaccurate.com/2012/03/02/sony-playstation-4-will-be-an-x86-cpu-with-an-amd-gpu/

    http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2011/12/maasaki-tsu-interview.cfm

    #58 2 years ago
  59. xxJPRACERxx

    If they can bare-metal program the A10 (witch they should), it should be ok if it’s paired with a nice dedicated GPU. If it’s using the integrated GPU then it’s a big disappointment.

    People pay $500+ for iPads and change it every 2 years and won’t pay $500 for something that should last 10 years…

    edit: About bits/bytes, speed transfer are generally expressed in bits and capacity in bytes, generally.

    #59 2 years ago
  60. Erthazus

    Processor for a console is much more important than GPU.

    #60 2 years ago
  61. Christopher Jack

    @53, A solid-state drive is a data storage device that uses integrated circuit assemblies as memory to store data persistently. It is used on phones & tablets. It’s not just one of those ludicrously overpriced 2.5″ SATA drives that you’d shove in your PC.

    #61 2 years ago
  62. Lightmanone

    The only thing I wanna know now is the price, cause I am not gonna pay more then 400 euro’s (yeah, i live in europe, deal with it) for a new console. I will just gladly wait a year, that the price is down a bit more, before I consider it.
    350 euro’s for a console (WiiU) is already above my comfort zone to be honest. But oh well. that is still acceptable.
    I will have to see which launch games will be available at the beginning of the PS4, and then decide ;)

    #62 2 years ago
  63. CPC_RedDawn

    The AMD A10 APU won’t be just its sole graphics chip. What they want is a power efficient system. So when playing a downloadable 2D game or games that just don’t require that much graphics power the MAIN GPU (separate from the APU) will simply shut down as not draw any power. The A10 chips are actually not that bad in terms of processing power, most of 4 cores too with turbo boost as well and support for 1866MHz DDR3 RAM…

    Here is a link, click on Product Specs Tab to see the two variants of the A10 chips.

    http://www.amd.com/US/PRODUCTS/DESKTOP/APU/MAINSTREAM/Pages/mainstream.aspx#7

    More than likey they will go for the A10-5700 or some variant of it. It is powerful, your getting a 3.4GHz chip that can OC it self to 4.0GHz and has a 760MHz GPU with 384 cores. To put that into perspective, the 360′s MAIN GPU only has 48 cores @ 500MHz LOL.

    As for 8GB or 16GB of system memory, this seems a little high to me. I mean what will it really need that much system RAM for? I would say 4GB maybe 6GB on a push is more than enough for a console. Considering PS3 has 256MB of RAM and 256MB of VRAM and the 360 has 256MB RAM and 512MB VRAM.

    Also the people stating that they hope it has 1GB of VRAM… ARE YOU SERIOUS!?? 1GB of VRAM by todays standards for 1080p gaming and above resolutions is nothing. In Skyrim on PC with 2K texture mods, 8XAA, everything maxed out on my 2x 7970 3GB VRAM GPU’s in crossfire @ a resolution of 2560×1440 I am pushing 2.9GB VRAM usage. So I say the next consoles seriously need at least 2GB VRAM if they want to push 3D 1080p gaming at 60fps (30fps per eye) then 2GB is a MUST!!!

    On the GPU front, I expect this is where Sony will seriously ramp up the game and throw in a VERY strong GPU. I reckon they will aim for a variant of the AMD 2GB HD6970 as you can buy one of those brand new for £120 so if they buy these in bulk from AMD (just the chip and not the PCB board it self from a vendor) they could get these for VERY VERY cheap. Also the fact they are using an AMD A10 APU as well, AMD will give them a pretty good deal as the system will be almost all AMD parts.

    I seriously can not wait to see Uncharted 4 on this machine!!!!

    #63 2 years ago
  64. CPC_RedDawn

    @61 A solid state drive is NOT used in smartphone and tablets. Its the same kind of tech but MUCH MUCH slower and does not use SATA to connect them. You are talking about SD cards and lower end built in flash memory.

    Real SSD drives use faster NAND Flash Memory and they DO use SATA2 or SATA3 to connect for up to 6Gbps data speeds.

    They are NOT ludicrously expensive like you claim. They used to be a few years back. I just upgraded my OS drive in my PC from a 60GB OCZ Vertex 1 drive that cost my £200+ 2 years ago to a 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SATA3 drive for £100. That you might think is expensive, but for the speed it is not. Windows 7 boots from a cold boot in 12.5seconds (yea I timed it) and the fact that SSD drives never have to be defragged is also a bonus as there is no seek time on them defragging can even cause the drives to wear out as well. No seek time means no moving parts like in a HDD which means less power draw as well.

    SSD’s are the future, and if the next consoles dont use them from the start or dont allow you to upgrade them your self (like you can on the PS3) then shame on them!

    #64 2 years ago
  65. Walter

    I don’t really care about specs, what matters in gaming are the games.

    #65 2 years ago
  66. Telepathic.Geometry

    So, what does this mean as regards backwards compatibility?

    #66 2 years ago
  67. TD_Monstrous69

    @66 I think u might want to look into them buying Gaikai to possibly answer your question.

    #67 2 years ago
  68. angushades

    lol you kids are so stupid you really think its going to fit a decent vga card in it while running at 300Watts from the wall. Lol console are out-dated when that come out, it takes at least a year to fit current gen vga into a notebook. I guess if it comes out in 2014 then NVidia will be up to like “900″ series and aTI will be up to 10K series if there don’t go bankrupt first. Still gutless compared to a desktop.

    #68 2 years ago
  69. Telepathic.Geometry

    @67: NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

    #69 2 years ago
  70. DeyDoDoughDontDeyDough

    @68

    You, sir, are an idiot. PCs versus console specs break down like this:

    A PC has to deliver roughly 8-10 times the power of consoles just to match what they’re doing. There is a lot of waste. This is because:

    1. PC games aren’t properly optimised to the specific specs of anybody’s system.
    2. It takes the card manufacturers literally YEARS to get make their drivers particularly effective for any particular game because the software cannot and does not keep up with the hardware.
    3. A PC has to run a very resource-hungry OS in the background.

    Combining these three factors means that owning a PC with, let’s say for the sake of argument 2xGTX 690 SLI, is the exact equivalent of building a Formula One car on the roof of a tall building. It’s got the power, and its owner can brag about that power (which is, after all, what it is often all about – it’s why we have cock-measu… I mean benchmarking), but he or she cannot ACCESS that power. They cannot get it onto the road with their wheels, engine, and aerodynamics all working how they should. All it can do is drive slowly around in very tight circles for fear of falling off and exploding.

    Meanwhile, there are the consoles.

    1. All of their power can be accessed. Developers optimise properly for this known quantity.
    2. Drivers are not an issue.
    3. The OS is extremely slimline and requires very little resource.

    SO, using the above analogy, the console is the Toyota Prius down there on the street. Not only is it incredibly efficient, but it has enough road to go wherever it likes as fast as its top speed will allow. A whole lot quicker, as it turns out, than a PC.

    WHICH IS WHY:
    1. You can’t run Forza 4 (for example) or anything even remotely approaching it on even the best 2005 PC.
    2. That Xbox 360 and PS3 versions of games, EVEN NOW, are comparable to their PC counterparts (beyond the over-resolutioned willy-waving that makes fuck all difference to the gameplay experience).
    3. When the new consoles arrive, they will offer visuals, right off the bat, that are quite sickeningly beyond anything we’re currently seeing on top end PCs. And THAT’S NOT THE PC’S FAULT. PCs ARE more powerful on paper, but all that power is of very little use if you can only access 10-20% of its full potential.

    And that is the last time I will spell it out for you cock-measuring PC dimwits.

    #70 2 years ago
  71. Erthazus

    @DeyDoDoughDontDeyDough, “1. PC games aren’t properly optimised to the specific specs of anybody’s system.”

    Wrong. It depends on the:

    1) Port

    2) Processing power

    If your processor is good, no matter what the game is ported from a console to PC it will run good. Everything else depends on the GPU like resolution, effects and etc..

    “It takes the card manufacturers literally YEARS to get make their drivers particularly effective for any particular game because the software cannot and does not keep up with the hardware.”

    Another bullshit. Since when Card manufacturers take years to get their drivers particularly effective?
    give the example with the link obviously or GTFO.

    you won’t give any because that’s not true.

    “3. A PC has to run a very resource-hungry OS in the background.”

    My previous PC had 8 GB of Ram which was already overkill for any current gen system. I have Windows 7 obviously and it only eats 1.5 GB Of ram. Games these days need only 4 GB Of Ram at best if you want them to have the best looking quality.

    “WHICH IS WHY:
    1. You can’t run Forza 4 (for example) or anything even remotely approaching it on even the best 2005 PC.”

    Because there is no emulator YET. If there was an emulator i could run any game with graphical enchancements with the max resolution. My i7 37XX 3.50 TURBO is enough for every shit there is.

    “3. When the new consoles arrive, they will offer visuals, right off the bat, that are quite sickeningly beyond anything we’re currently seeing on top end PCs. ”

    Every generation of consoles was not like that and this will be no different. I’m already running current gen games with visuals that are sickeningly beyond anything you are currently seeing on your consoles.

    #71 2 years ago
  72. DeyDoDoughDontDeyDough

    “Another bullshit. Since when Card manufacturers take years to get their drivers particularly effective? Give the example or GTFO.”

    My 4870X2s. Took Catalyst drivers two years just to fix the bugs these cards created in current resource-hungry games and even longer before they became in any way efficient at running even elementary stuff like Crysis. Let’s take The Witcher 2, for example. Classic case of NO OPTIMISATION WHATSOVER. Why? Because they know that PC gamers like yourself will unquestioningly just throw more hardware at the problem. Which is like buying trophies instead of winning them. It’s self-defeating.

    Have a good old read through the driver update release notes of any top-end current card and you find the same thing over and over. Now perhaps you’d like to give me an example where that’s not the case. Perhaps you’d like to give me an example of ANY GAME AT ALL that uses (I would say 100%, but I want to give you a fighting chance here) 50% of a card’s potential power if it were properly optimised.

    Go ahead son, make my day, or as you so sweetly put it, GTFO.

    #72 2 years ago
  73. freedoms_stain

    @72, that’s one case with a manufacturer renowned for bad drivers. Hardly merits sweeping statements like “It takes the card manufacturers literally YEARS to get make their drivers particularly effective for any particular game” Which is clear bullshit. Typically driver optimisations are available for new games (by Nvidia anyway) on launch if they’re required. Years? Please.

    Really, I’d like to see sources for all your claims, because more than a few of them smell like bullshit, and there is a lot of heavy exaggeration throughout.

    #73 2 years ago
  74. Christopher Jack

    I’ve got a question- why are we getting 2K tablets before laptops? Why is the standard laptop still using a petty 1366*768 resolution when its architecture is multiple times stronger? Even the average smartphone is quickly approaching that, there’s already 1920*1080 phones out in the wild like the HTC One J. An average CPU+GPU combo really shouldn’t be having these problems of running modern applications at higher resolutions. By now a $500 budget laptop should be toting a fHD display.

    #74 2 years ago
  75. Erthazus

    @74, because Resolution for tablets is a requirement for your eye. Most of the people like reading something on the tablets and better resolution – better looking font (sharp, high quality and etc.) and less stress for your eyes.
    Resolution on the tablets will always have a priority.

    @72, “My 4870X2s.”

    you can stop here. Crappy outdated videocards from Radeon. Well of course it’s going to take a while from them.

    Buy Nvidia next time.

    #75 2 years ago
  76. DrDamn

    @74
    I think it’s got a lot to do with OS design. With PC O/S the design is effectively as you go up in resolution your monitor tends to get bigger. So the OS doesn’t tend to be as useable on a very small 1080p screen. Sure there are allowances like scaling icons, fonts etc – but it’s not a intrinsically embedded in the OS as for tablets.

    With Tablets/Phones you are looking at a fixed size screen and lots of resolutions. Hence the OSs are designed around that.

    @75
    Of course it’s going to be an outdated videocard, they were asked for an example where drivers took years to be sorted. You also can’t dismiss the example because it’s ATI. They are a very big section of the market.

    #76 2 years ago
  77. DeyDoDoughDontDeyDough

    @76

    Thank you, Dr Damn.

    @75

    You know, just because you want to believe something it doesn’t make it so. You are yet to provide me a single example of a game in which the power of any PC graphics card has been specifically optimised for. You know why, because there aren’t any. And that’s not a ‘oh, so what, I lose 20% power I could have got from optimisation’. The difference between thorough optimisation (See RAGE on 360 as a good example) and no optimisation is MAGNITUDES of the useable power.

    You pay £800 for a GTX690? Well done, sir, you have just spent £600 of that on power you cannot use. It’s very simple, really, if you just get your head around the notion that there are many more factors in play than ‘you get what you pay for’.

    Sincerely, someone who knows.

    #77 2 years ago
  78. Erthazus

    “You are yet to provide me a single example of a game in which the power of any PC graphics card has been specifically optimised for. You know why, because there aren’t any.”

    Starcraft II, Diablo III, Crysis 1, Hawken, Witcher 2 I need to continue?

    “You pay £800 for a GTX690?”

    No.

    I hve GTX 580 and i’m fine with it for the rest of this generation and the start of the next.

    “Sincerely,”

    you know shit but you can always guess what cards I use.

    @DrDamn, “Of course it’s going to be an outdated videocard, they were asked for an example where drivers took years to be sorted.”

    because you know, ATI Drivers are always crap. ATI Cards are not really great for gaming first of all. They do not even have proprietary gaming technology like PhysX. Their drivers are nothing like WHQL drivers from Nvidia: http://www.nvidia.co.uk/content/DriverDownload-March2009/confirmation.php?url=/Windows/306.97/306.97-desktop-win8-win7-winvista-64bit-international-whql.exe&lang=uk&type=GeForce

    #78 2 years ago
  79. DeyDoDoughDontDeyDough

    @78

    “Starcraft II, Diablo III, Crysis 1, Hawken, Witcher 2 I need to continue?”

    None of these games are optimised to anything like the degree console games are. Keep trying. And try and stay on topic this time, since:

    “No.

    I hve GTX 580 and i’m fine with it for the rest of this generation and the start of the next.”

    Has nothing whatsoever to do with what we’re talking about.

    #79 2 years ago
  80. Nath_gamer

    This is exciting news, no matter what happens, I WILL be there at the midnight launch! and I’ll probably get half the release titles! I have to start saving up now.

    #80 2 years ago
  81. Diesel

    Not gonna lie, guys, I’m not incredibly bullish on either console this generation. Last generation, we got the promise of HD gaming with acceptable framerates. The result? Lots of sub-720p games running in low detail with clunky framerates, despite all of the graphical power that was touted (especially on the Sony side). Before anyone calls me out as a PC fanboy, I have both a PS3 and PC as gaming platforms, and love both.

    @DeyDoDoughDontDeyDough #77-

    You say you are someone who knows. So let me ask you- are you involved in the industry? As in, are you someone who is in silicon design/architecture, embedded systems design at a major silicon/platform firm, or in embedded software/OS/driver development at the same? I don’t see your optimization argument holding that much weight- pc graphics card drivers are designed to allow developers plenty of access to the hardware resources on the card, and in recent years allow them plenty of freedom to scale their game engines to utilize whatever level of resources exist.

    You’re correct in stating that console games are optimized for console video hardware. Of course they are! But to say that the PC games are not largely optimized to the same degree? Not at all. Just because a game has not been specifically written using a particular video card as part of the development kit or a specific streamlined OS/driver stack has not been written for it (as in the case of consoles), does not mean that said game is not optimized to PC CPU/GPU architectures. Far from it. OpenGL and DirectX exist to standardize calls to commonly used hardware-accelerated features in PC GPU’s, and allow for plenty of optimization by game developers in how they choose to break up and target rendering tasks to hardware available on whatever card is being used. Modern game engines are also designed to scale extremely well across the targeted user base, because more games can be sold if more people can run them.

    You said the following, which cuts to the heart of what’s being discussed here:
    “WHICH IS WHY:
    1. You can’t run Forza 4 (for example) or anything even remotely approaching it on even the best 2005 PC.”

    Nope. Ertzhaus was right- the only thing stopping us is a good emulator (which is an oxymoron- emulation is not “good” for obvious reasons for the sake of our discussion), or actually developing the game natively in the major PC graphics API’s and OS. The best cards of 2005, like the X800XL and 6800GT would shred Forza 4 if it was developed for the PC- those cards have more texture memory resources on-board, faster core GPU clocks and memory interfaces, and are built to run the games of the day at much higher resolution (1600×1200 or 1280×1024) with high detail using 4xFSAA and 16x anisotropic filtering- the latter being something that console games typically discard (or kick down to a much lower level like 2x or 4x) because it’s not something that makes a huge difference at 720P and lower. And we’re not even bringing cross-platform game development into the discussion here…A survey of cross platform console games of the last couple of generations would reveal that lots of potential performance has been lost in the shuffle of attempting to make games look and play identically across competing consoles. Your claims about optimization are FAR too simplistic.

    So yeah, console games are optimized, but no, this does not mean that PC games are not. A lot of your comments seem to miss the nuances of recent (2002 and forward) development challenges.

    #81 2 years ago
  82. osric90

    The “ultimate goal” for the hardware, we were told, is for it to be able to run 1080p60 games in 3D with “no problem,” to create a machine that’s powerful enough for “today and tomorrow’s market”.

    Meh… hopefully it will take more time and offer something better than that.

    #82 2 years ago
  83. Espers

    LOOOOL a Goddamn comment war !! LOOOL problem is that game websites forget the old news they post. SONY spoke in 2011 of a home multimedia version of the PS3 and not the PlayStation 4, I mean COME ON !! how can an APU !! deliver the next gen EXPERIENCE !!! some comments are really funny !!! … LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL …. VG247 are even funnier.

    #83 2 years ago
  84. Ali

    I am a console user who never finds it comfortable to play games on the PC, but that will never prevent me from saying that the PC is much superior to the consoles and I have seen this many times. Say nothing about the games being cheaper,Steam’s sales, strategy games,having more games on PC and the whole modding communities.

    That said, I’ll probably pick up a console next gen !

    #84 2 years ago
  85. Keivz

    @81
    I don’t think there’s anyway a x800xl/6800GT could run forza 4 or uncharted 3 with a 2005 processor. I doubt they could even run the PC version of NFS: Shift at an acceptable clip/resolution. Though there maybe a bit of hyperbole, I agree with most of what DeyDoDoughDontDeyDough is saying. There’s no game today made for the PC that looks light-years ahead of console games despite the huge gap in potential power. The best example would probably be The Witcher 2–it’s the best looking game built from the ground up for the PC, but still managed to get a comparable looking 360 port. And even though there’s more going on in The Witcher 2, it still doesn’t ‘look’ quite as good as uncharted 3.

    #85 2 years ago
  86. Christopher Jack

    @64, My point was that flash storage is technically a solid state drive. At least to my knowledge- it doesn’t have to be the traditional 50c-$1 per GB SATA drive. I could be wrong but I’m more or less arguing over semantics. If you can explain to me the difference between built-in flash & an SSD, I’ll gladly apologize for being wrong. As far as I know, the type of memory doesn’t necessarily dictate whether or not it’s an SSD.

    @83, No one expects the graphics to be driven by the APU, at least not in any graphics intensive games, there are many laptops today that use the built in APU in CrossFireX- mine for example is the 7520g+7670m & gets something a little above these results

    http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-7520G-HD-7670M-Dual-Graphics.81182.0.html

    & this is just a budget $400~ laptop. I’m more than capable of running Skyrim on medium using my laptop’s display & run VLC on my TV right next to me with 30+ FPS. Without VLC I am able to manage it on high with 30~ FPS.

    #86 2 years ago
  87. Dragon246

    This looks good. It seems sony is learning the lessons. Next-gen sure will be interesting with big 3 looking set for bigger things .
    The controller is still open for debate. I hate dual screen gimmick, but as many pointed out, it may turn out to be an unfortunate industry standard next-gen (although I dont think so, just because if that was the case, we would have heard about its implementation in next-gen games that are in development). If they make vita the standard ps4 controller, it would be amazing, although it will probably be just a wish considering how costly vita is. But who knows what will happen in 2014.

    #87 2 years ago
  88. reviler

    @79
    “No.

    I hve GTX 580 and i’m fine with it for the rest of this generation and the start of the next.”

    Has nothing whatsoever to do with what we’re talking about.

    It kinda does. You don’t buy GTX 690 for year or two. Its investment that will grant you max settings in every single new game coming in maybe even in next 4 or 5 years.

    @83

    “how can an APU !! deliver the next gen EXPERIENCE !!! some comments are really funny !!! … LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL …. VG247 are even funnier.”

    APU can easily deliver next gen experience. If you have been playing on console and havent even seen DX11 its your shame. A10-5800k with HD 7660D (which is remotely cheap CPU/GPU combo) Can deliver 1080p gaming with solid 30fps in almost every modern game. They will probably use new Trinity “dual-GPU” technology and put down HD 7670 or similar small GPU in crossfire with the HD7660D. This way they can use on-board GPU for less demanding jobs and when playing high end 3D-games it will take HD7670 and crossfire it with HD7660D and bring some extra performance.

    Some way this would be ideal for the PC’s as well as for consoles. AMD gets their hybrid crossfire developed further which helps PC gamers to get their computers cheaper, but they will still be able to play modern games with good settings@1920×1080. If AMD does that the game developers have to optimize their game for hybrid crossfire. Atm only few games get huge FPS boost out of it. Even this hybrid GPU-GPU/CPU setup would probably multiply the power of consoles to match 2012 med range gaming PC. But consoles will never ever give better graphics than a PC with high res textures. This is a hard fact. Even FC3 on console will look very very bad compared to PC.

    #88 2 years ago
  89. Maximum Payne

    @88 Is it possible for AMD to make APU with six core cpu for PS4 ?
    I mean to make it more stronger then desktop a10 + crossfire ?

    #89 2 years ago
  90. Christopher Jack

    @89, The PS4 won’t need a stronger central processor than an A10. Games being optimized to the specific chip-set on a gaming console will deal out vastly superior graphics to it’s PC equivalent.

    Of course the built in GPU side of the A10 would be a huge bottleneck unlikely to improve much over the current standard we expect from the PS3 which is why it’s been implied that it’ll likely be in crossfire with a dedicated GPU- most expectantly the Radeon HD 7850 which is a relatively capable single card by today’s standards.

    AMD’s shitty driver support can really hold their cards back but imagine the possibilities when that’s no longer a problem & on top of that- every game is designed to specifically run on it.

    #90 2 years ago
  91. Erthazus

    @89, Cores does not make a difference. Especially from AMD because to call them “cores” actually is incorrect.

    @90,
    “Games being optimized to the specific chip-set on a gaming console will deal out vastly superior graphics to it’s PC equivalent.”

    Lolwut?

    #91 2 years ago
  92. Maximum Payne

    @90 I know that ”optimized for specific chip…” but some games already use more then 4 cores like Capcom games,Battlefield 3,maybe even Source ?
    So for next gen I thought they would go more then 4 cores because xbox 360 have 3 real core ?

    #92 2 years ago
  93. Christopher Jack

    @91, Compare any PS3 game to one running on a PC with a 7800GTX.

    @92, Cores, clock speed, neither way gives a definitive answer to speed performance anymore. To make it easier, the A10-5800K is around as powerful as a second gen i5 CPU at the price of an i3 while crushing both in the integrated graphics department but most hardcore PC gamers are still more likely to grab the Intel processor & top it off with an Nvidia GPU.

    #93 2 years ago
  94. Maximum Payne

    @93 In games probably is faster if you consider intel’s IGPU is very week.
    But cpu perfomance Intel sandy bridge or even previous one is def. more powerful.

    #94 2 years ago
  95. Diesel

    @85
    “I don’t think there’s anyway a x800xl/6800GT could run forza 4 or uncharted 3 with a 2005 processor. I doubt they could even run the PC version of NFS: Shift at an acceptable clip/resolution.”

    Turns out both DeyDoDoughDontDeyDough and I were making the wrong comparison. The PS3/360 have roughly the level of power of the Nvidia 7800 series, which are more than capable of running the games we are discussing. If those games were targeted to the PC with the same hardware, you’d get more bells and whistles at the same resolution.

    “There’s no game today made for the PC that looks light-years ahead of console games despite the huge gap in potential power.”

    A lot of this has to do with the finance side of things. A large percentage of the “triple-A” titles in recent years have been multiplatform for obvious reasons. There’s more money in selling to both console and PC platforms (and comparatively much less to be made on the PC). To that end, many games are being designed to scale across lots of different platforms. Nobody who wants to make money wants to design a game engine that won’t scale to the largest potential base of consumers.

    Note that within some current franchises, a lot of sacrifices have to be made to get certain games to run on consoles in any playable way. Look at BF3. They bumped the resolution down to sub-720p, turned down the texture detail, used minimal anti-aliasing, and allowed a generous amount of pop-in that’s visible almost all the time. And all the while, the game runs somewhere around a little under 30fps average. The point is, there are sacrifices to maintain an acceptable experience, and that’s where the gap in power is easily noticed. There will be a few instances where games fit so well into the strengths of the consoles as to be really stunning, but as we’ve seen time and again, with the last generation, most games featured less bells and whistles than their PC equivalents to deliver a stable experience.

    #95 2 years ago
  96. Statix

    @95

    Name me ONE PC game that can run smoothly at 720p on an Nvidia 7800GTX that looks even 1/4th as good as Uncharted 3 or Killzone 3. Wait, you can’t? Discussion = ended.

    The pure, undeniable fact of the matter is that consoles are CLOSED platforms. PCs are OPEN platforms, with the added overhead of a Microsoft Windows OS. You will ALWAYS be able to achieve far superior graphical performance by targeting and optimizing specifically for a closed platform with a very specific, unvarying set of components.

    #96 2 years ago
  97. Statix

    Case in point: http://youtu.be/c7PKpGyjqBw

    The 7800 GTX can BARELY run Bad Company 2 on LOW settings, at 1024×768 resolution. LOL! Yeah, that looks better than Uncharted 3, sure.

    #97 2 years ago
  98. ilagnev

    These guys suggest that this amount of RAM required for advanced OS with amazing features from sony.

    #98 2 years ago
  99. Xeridian

    @FeaturePreacher It’s an A10 AMD Processor. The GPU is built in…
    So some form of this: AMD A10-5800K Trinity 3.8GHz (4.2GHz Turbo) Socket FM2 100W Quad-Core Desktop APU (CPU + GPU) with DirectX 11 Graphic AMD Radeon HD 7660D
    I’m sure custom and dedicated for gaming only. The fact is, the A-8 is cheaper and out performs the A10 in a lot of games. But Sony like’s to spend more money than they make, so whatever! lol

    #99 2 years ago
  100. DSB

    Facepalm.

    #100 2 years ago
  101. RocknRolla

    lol forgot to read the date, and thought they hade delayed the PS4 … face palm

    #101 1 year ago

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